Love EQ2 but this is 2 MAJOR annoyances

[Falein]

but they are not really SoE's fault, but really partly the communities and mostly World of Warcrafts. Great game (especially on my new PC I bought for it), and was a long time EQ1 (and other games) player with doing everything from soloing, raiding, crafting, etc, ever since M59 (yes even after all these years I still MMO) My two annoyances are 1 - No grouping at lower levels Went looking for group with my healer for 8 hours, sending LFG out, looking for others, no one grouped. Everyone was running around soloing, doing quests, but no one wants to group. So I asked about it and was told, since it is so easy to solo, no one does grouping until really the late 20s or mid 30s. This is really sad because generally this leads to my next annoyance... 2 - Players (new ones I assume) dont know their job in groups and cause havoc In the only 3 groups I have been apart of only 1 was really good, all were alts of higher levels. The first group, our Conj tried to pull mobs and had zero pet control so instead of nuke pulling, he would run up get hit, pet would guard, and we would watch adds follow the Conj back.. even after trying to explain this we were told this is how he plays. We tried to make it work but no go, thankfully the group broke up quick. The second group was similar with 3 tanks (Berserker, Pally, Guardian) and my Alt a Warder. Berserker was higher level then the rest, Pally and Guardian were newbies and kept trying to pull agro so my Warder was trying to heal the Berserker (was healing fine), but had to jump to healing Pally, then Guardian, and after the mob died the Pally and Guardian would both run out and grab mobs, bringing in several.. luckily we all didnt die, but the Berserker tried to explain let him tank, keep agro, stop trying to pull it, that I wasnt a CLERIC and had different heal spells that were HoT... and the Pally got mad and quit, and the Guardian didnt understand why his normal game play was not group friendly. Now I know its only been 2 bad out of 3 groups, but spent much time talking to others about this and agree there is a big issue.  We need to get more groups going at lower levels (I know it wont happen). Now how is this mostly WoWs fault? Its casual games like this when players who play it think its all "hardcore" and come to the next game and think it is the same and do not realize they have specific jobs. Its party the communities problem and fault because we do not try to group with low newbie players and teach them like we did in EQ1. Easier to break bad habits early then at 35. Just my opinion... and maybe I see EQ2 as something it isnt.. a game with jobs, where everyone has a job (Buffer/Debuffer, Movement Control, Tank, Offtank, Healer, etc) and needs to work together to do it.

[bensilvi]

<p>What server are you on? Agree that it is tough at low levels but the majority of players are beyond that. When you say low levels do you mean 1-19? If so you can pretty much solo until 20, even then you can solo to the end of the game. Its just as most people who start alts are either gonna solo till 20 or group with guildmates. I would suggest finding a good guild as most will have low level alts to group with you.</p><p>Bad groups is gonna happen. Doesnt matter if you are lvl 10 or lvl 70 its gonna happen.</p><p>Stick with it! You wont be disappointed.</p>

[Amethest]

I fully understand your point.I have heard people complain about pick up groups and groups were the healer gets yelled at for deaths. Its not always the healers fault. heres the situation I have been in ...I have a great guild but I play lots of alts and level slow,so I dont have a 70. Therefore I solo a lot,except for guild groups,when I see in chat someone looking for a healer do I jump on it? no, reasons lack of confidence in my ability to group heal,totally diff than solo heal of course. If I had been in groups and healing from the start I would have had lots of practice and hopefully more confidence. So even though it is easy to solo in the game I agree if more people grouped from begining then more of us would have a better idea of what their groups roles are and fear of pick up groups would be less of an issue. anyway happy adventures all and have a nice day <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Chondrichtheyia]

<cite>Falein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now how is this mostly WoWs fault? Its casual games like this when players who play it think its all "hardcore" and come to the next game and think it is the same and do not realize they have specific jobs. Its party the communities problem and fault because we do not try to group with low newbie players and teach them like we did in EQ1. Easier to break bad habits early then at 35. </blockquote> This has <b>nothing</b> to do with WoW. I used to play WoW, and I can tell you that to be a successful group/raid, everybody must <b>know their roles!</b> There will always be bad players (the perpetual n00bs) who never bother to learn or read up or ask, and simply level up by grinding in both EQ2 and WoW. In fact, bad players are prevalent in any type of game. So while it is unforunate that you had to deal with them, it is not WoW's fault.

[Shadostalker]

<span style="font-family: georgia,palatino">I can certainly understand your frustration with grouping at lower levels, but as you noted this is more of a people issue rather than a game issue. I must confess as somewhat of a veteran player myself, I am really on the other end of the spectrum, in  that I generally perefer to solo than to group, I will from time to time group, and not unlike your experience, you can either be in a really GOOD group, or one that really makes you wonder why you wasted your time. I would also recomend seeing if you can find a good guild to join, I would hope this turns things around for you in your gameplaying experience.</span>

[Insaysha]

I think the main problem is, you only get 6 or 8 character slots TOTAL, rather than 6 or 8 slots per server, like EQ1 had! There is exactly "ZERO" incentive for players to go back and play around with low level toons. Once you have a full compliment of higher level characters, who wants to delete one of them to start all over again? Of course, I could be wrong. They might have changed it... I haven't played in a while

[Falein]

<cite>Chondrichtheyia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Falein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now how is this mostly WoWs fault? Its casual games like this when players who play it think its all "hardcore" and come to the next game and think it is the same and do not realize they have specific jobs. Its party the communities problem and fault because we do not try to group with low newbie players and teach them like we did in EQ1. Easier to break bad habits early then at 35. </blockquote> This has <b>nothing</b> to do with WoW. I used to play WoW, and I can tell you that to be a successful group/raid, everybody must <b>know their roles!</b> There will always be bad players (the perpetual n00bs) who never bother to learn or read up or ask, and simply level up by grinding in both EQ2 and WoW. In fact, bad players are prevalent in any type of game. So while it is unforunate that you had to deal with them, it is not WoW's fault. </blockquote> I should have been a bit more clear. The main game of WoW is different then the Raid Game in WoW, most people do not raid in WoW and yes in WoW you do need to know your role. I think Lord of the Rings Online is the only game where you can fall asleep during a raid and still win.

[Falein]

<cite>Insaysha wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the main problem is, you only get 6 or 8 character slots TOTAL, rather than 6 or 8 slots per server, like EQ1 had! There is exactly "ZERO" incentive for players to go back and play around with low level toons. Once you have a full compliment of higher level characters, who wants to delete one of them to start all over again? Of course, I could be wrong. They might have changed it... I haven't played in a while</blockquote> its the same.. which is sad.. but I think you can pay for more, some how

[Ogrebe]

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[Lilj]

<cite>Insaysha wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think the main problem is, you only get 6 or 8 character slots TOTAL, rather than 6 or 8 slots per server, like EQ1 had! There is exactly "ZERO" incentive for players to go back and play around with low level toons. Once you have a full compliment of higher level characters, who wants to delete one of them to start all over again? Of course, I could be wrong. They might have changed it... I haven't played in a while</blockquote>You can have 7 characters per region, so this is 21 characters total. The regions are Europe, US and Test. But most people I meet don't want to start over fresh on a new server, but it is possible..also today. With Station Access you can have 12 characters (12 in each region), but it is rather expensive, so I can understand it people don't want to pay for extra slots.

[Finora]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can have 7 characters per region, so this is 21 characters total. The regions are Europe, US and Test. </blockquote><p> Most people don't want to do this because you either have to have a seperate install for each of those servers (they are different 'builds' ) or have lengthy patching between server switches. ew </p><p>To the OP it has nothing to do with WOW. There is zero reason to group at lower levels. The vast majority of quests are solo quests that lead you through solo areas killing solo mobs. Why group up and lower your xp? The only reasons to group pre-20 is to hit one of the herioc dungeons for that level range (blackburrow or wailing caves, forgive me if there is a lowbie dungeon in Gfay or Darklight, I never saw them if there is).</p><p>Once players are above 20 you'll find some groups for Fallen Gate, Crushbone, Stormhold, Ruins of Varsoon and the like.</p><p>As for the 'bad groups because people don't know their jobs'. That isn't necessarily because of soloing. I know people who have spent a LOT of their time soloing and when grouped up they are darn fine players. There are people out there that are just BAD players. They play how they play, no matter what the situation calls for and no matter if they are given suggestions on other ways they might try to do something. I have run into some high level players who have grouped and everything most of their play life who were just AWFUL at playing their class. (And just FYI <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'd never nuke pull as a conjurer in a group, I'd pet pull, just because it's easy and has a much smaller chance of adds.) In a group if someone sucks at doing a job like pulling, someone else can do it. Pretty much any class can pull with equal success.</p><p>If in a group people have been warned to not pull agro, and not to go out and pull, as a healer , I let them die. Then they'll ask you why didn't you heal me? You reply that if they had NOT been pulling agro away from the tank and if they had NOT ran out to fetch mobs when they were asked not to then they would still be alive. They can leave, whine, cuss, call you a bad healer or whatever. It doesn't matter. Some people have to learn the hard way to control themselves in a group situation (and I am a hard handed teacher sometimes, I've grown much less patient over the years). </p>

[Crib92]

<p>This game has evolved alot since launch.  One thing SOE did was change the game from mostly heroic (and require groups) game to basically a solo game, with some grouping in between.</p><p>Anybody out there remember when Nek Forrest was challenging and you couldn't run down the path without getting smoked?</p><p>Because of this you will find less experienced players when it comes to grouping.  I've seen many a player at lvl 70 that didn't understand the basics of their class, nor understand group dynamics and how classes interact.</p><p>I would recommend that you do your homework and look for a guild with like minded players.  I find that you almost know what your friends are going to do before they do it and makes the game that much more enjoyable.</p><p>Don't give up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[DirtyJawa84]

<p>First of all, yes you're right about WoW changing a lot.  Its simplicity has changed how MMOs are to be created, which is good and bad.  I don't like that they have 10x more players than most MMOs, but other than that, i think it's brought a lot of good ideas to the table that could be expanded on by other games, such as EQ2.  I think EQ2 is doing a fabulous job of adapting to its players.</p><p>Secondly, WoW isn't what changes players.  I think it just drew in a whole new crowd of players.  WoW is a lot like an action game in many aspects, and is a lot less slow and complex feeling as most MMOs before it's time.  It has low system requirements too, I might add.  I think WoW attracted a lot of third and first person action games to the MMO genre.  People that quit it are starting to come over to EQ2, and you should feel happy about that because it's more people to group with and/or kill in PvP.</p><p>New players need time, especially with EQ2.  This game has a lot more little things you can do in it than most MMOs I know of.  A lot of players don't spend a lot of time figuring out what's best to do in given situations, and just play.  They'll get it down pat eventually.  WoW had those same problems with low level groups being horrible and one or two people out of 5 carrying the whole group on their backs.  Around L50, most players knew how to play in groups fairly proficiently.</p><p>Anyway, if you want someone to group with and someone willing to learn to play, come to Venekor and /tell Kilryth.  Right now, I'm a L9 Brigand in Freeport, but I'll be betraying at L14 to Qeynos.</p>

[TheSpin]

<p>I apologize, I ended up not reading everybodies post prior to my own, I usually read them a little better....but</p><p>I have found a lot more success getting people to group if I make the group myself rather than just saying that I'm looking for a group.  Give it a shot and you should see a big improvement.</p>

[Zorastiz]

<p>I am EQ-1 vet, played for 4 years but I haven't played game one in nearly three years. I downloaded EQ-2 two weeks ago, I spent a lot of time on these forums before doing so, everything I read about this told me there were sporadic group opportunities at best prior to 20 (ish). I soloed one toon to 17, decided to re-roll and soled him to 20 minus two groups, as long as it has been since I played EQ I still thought I knew my job and how to do it in a group.</p><p> Suffice it to say I caused havoc, BIGTIME, I felt like someone that has never played an MMO in his life. The moral of my story is that it just takes time, patience, practice and above all perseverance.</p><p> From what I can see there is a ton to do in EQ-2, I made some friends was asked to join a level 60 guild they are great folks and I'm having a blast. </p><p>Chin up mate it's all what you make of it.</p>

[Drokmed]

The OP makes a good point, and I agree with the above responses. 1.  Heroic quests don't start until late teens, so thats when people "start" to learn how to group. 2.  Most in-game people do NOT read these forums, so they have to learn the hard way, if at all. 3.  The "join a good guild" is the best way to go, or at least, form your own groups. Yeah, pick-up groups have a less than 50% chance (IMHO) of being any good, especially at lower levels.  If you group with the same people (guild or just friends), your enjoyment will go up tremendously. I'm still fairly new to the game.  I tried three different guilds until I found people that were: 1- active players, 2- near my level, 3- near my area and 4- interested in grouping.  I'm thrilled to say now that every night when I login, I can get into a group in my area, and continue my quest lines. I'm also a healer, and was frustrated like you when I first started grouping.  I started a thread on this very topic: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=372075" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=372075</a> and was pleased to see the responses from experienced "group healers".  It's packed with lots of group healer advice.  Worth a read... Here's to the people willing to learn their role in a group! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Solento]

Grouping -- it's a shame there's only one critter per newbie isle that requires a group to take down, and those are a bit unlikely to be found by the average new player.  GFay and Darklight are both set up a little differently, and I haven't tinkered with the Fae enough to really know what's going on around Kelethin.  I liked it when there was at least one quest that really required a group (for most folks, that meant the cave...for the overachievers, the heroic troll ghost all but absolutely required a group) to complete.  It got people in the right mindset early. Still, the Ruins in Freeport and the Caves in Qeynos are *awfully* rough to make it though without a group, but the quest rewards are well worth the effort.  Odds are you can find groups or, at least, people willing to group in those zones in your mid-teens.  For high-teens, there are most certainly portions of Antonica, the Commonlands, and Darklight Woods that are not solo-friendly.  Finding groups in these zones may be a challenge because of the overwhelming amount of solo content available, but I never had a lot of problems with my (alternate-server non-twinked) guardian.  Just be persistent and friendly.

[Da]

I would just like to point out (if someone hasn't already) - often times these issues are just as much the fault of the person who is frustrated by things like the pally / guard wanting to tank and pull - as it is the pally and the guard. Why? Well - any time I'm in a group - if there is another person in the group who can fill the same role as I can - I either:  A)  Straighten it out up front - or B)  Assume the other person will fill the role if I don't feel like debating who the better person might be for the task. In a similar way - if I'm in a group with two people who could fill the same role (say tank), I innocently ask, for example, OK - who is the tank... I need to know who I'm assisting... That way - you don't end up in a group stewing over stuff like 2 different people pulling at the same time. On the other hand - having both of them pull - shouldn't have happened more than once (if at all) - if they both pulled at the same time - rather than stubbornly trying to assert themselves as "the puller" - they should have taken a second to figure it all out. Group dynamics can be interesting - but I find that MOST of the time, if there is a problem in a PUG, it is because people were refusing to deal with issues up front - or when they occurred... and instead stewed on them OR - as I like to remind myself: "The idiot I'm complaining about in guild chat is, at this very moment, complaining in his guild chat about the idiot in his group"