Fix Crafting

[a1will]

<p>I have many crafters one of each type, a tinkerer and transmuter, and 10 adv classes ranging from lvl 70 to lvl 32. With the addition of EOF areas, you have made crafting goods obsolete. There are a few that are decent, but as far as weapons, armor, or jewelry, your better off with treasured items from eof than mastercrafted items. Why lvl up a crafter then? My only answer is I have been bringing my crafters to 65 and stopping. The items arent worth anything but at least I can make adornments rather than spending 7p for an item i can make for 3p. How about adding resists to mastercrafted gear. Making mastercrafted weapons and jewelry comparable to weapons and jewelry as eof drops. Maybe even a quest to get a recipe to make gear for higher lvls like Deathfist citadel gear. Maybe gear sets like that or even make fabled drops like the YEW before that was used to make lvl 40 fabled gear. Rares arent worth a dam unless you can make an adept 3 spell or stuff for the house. Maybe arrows, but if you can do deathtoll and grab the bows from in there, you can make arrows useless as well. How about mastercrafted arrows again?? </p><p> The whole statement in this thread is to make crafters useful again.</p>

[Calthine]

I sell an awful lot of stuff for it all being totally useless....

[IcterusGalbula]

<p>Maybe its differences among servers, but I've made about 25 platinum this week on a PVP server just selling Tier 2 and 3 items.  Most people I've heard comment on MC vs Treasured say MC is essential, at least on a PVP server.</p><p>I've heard of people making a lot more than 25 platinum in a day, so it seems there is still a pretty big demand for MC items.</p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>I sell an awful lot of stuff for it all being totally useless.... </blockquote><p> My weaponsmith sold 1 weapon in 6 weeks. (that was with it priced at a few gold profit)</p><p>My tailor can only sell bags and dolls, but not for any kind of mark up, and VERY slowly.</p><p>I haven't bothered with anything else.</p><p>But totems sell off the shelf as fast as i can put em up, for a few silvers profit each.</p><p>A lot of it is class, and I am totally guessing, but i bet you sell mostly consumables, which not every ts class has.</p><p>My experience is, nimbus roots sell quicker than dolls for loads more profit, becuase the customer base is bigger.  That means that we tradeskillers 'don't add any value' to the rare/harvestable.  i.e. ts is useless/time sink/moneysink.</p><p>But hey sometimes I do get bored enough to ts. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Illmarr]

Why a new thread? Was Valdaglerion's too highbrow to understand? It asked exactly the same thing when you get right down to it. Spam in all forms is bad

[leiela]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>I sell an awful lot of stuff for it all being totally useless.... </blockquote><p> Yeah me too .... </p><p>sorry i have to disagree with the poster... crafting is not useless. </p><p>I'll grant certain class need alittle help weaponsmith being one of them ... but crafting as a whole is very lucrative ... and as people are buying im guessing the items still have some ingame use. </p>

[Finora]

<p>I sell an awful lot of mastercrafted armor for it to be useless as well. Especially in t4-t6.</p><p>Some classes swear by their mastercrafted jewelery even in T7.</p><p>Now I don't have a weaponsmith, but our guild's weaponsmith seems to keep busy enough with pre-t7 stuff.</p><p>I will agree there is a bit of a problem with tradeskill stuff in tier 7, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that so many people have been in that tier so long that there is TONS of t7 gear floating around from instances and what not for the vendor price and I've even seen some selling for LESS than the vendor will give me /shrug.</p>

[Off]

I do pretty well with my crafters and selling; if things are selling, they must not be that useless.  It may vary from server to server, but I am pretty much willing to bet that crafting is not useless, nor are crafters. 

[Jai1]

<p>The only crafter I don't have is a WS.  I can't say whether or not they make a lot of money.  I really think out of all the professions, tinkering, is the least profitable.  I make the most money from my T7 Jeweler.  I was selling acrylia at 1.75p per item recently and that was a good profit.  The most I have ever made in a day was 15p and that was a few weeks ago.  Up until then 10p was the max and I hit that a few times.  Most of my sales are gradual vs. sellout because of my pricing.  I don't really adventure much and when I do, I don't really get anything.  I think the easiest way for me to make money is to harvest, get rares, and sell that stuff.  </p><p>Somehow, recently,  I got a whole lot of oak roots and made those into caster armor.  I could have made them into rugs and could have sold them for more but my tailor gets exp.  All that stuff sold pretty quick and that's T4 mastercrafted. I found like 15 more roots and plan to do it again.  I have the hardest time selling AppIVs.  I want more money than the 5 guys selling them cheaper before me.  I just keep them on my brokers because eventually I feel they will sell and I can't keep my boxes full to begin with. </p><p>The market is good on Najena.  There's two parts of the world I'm selling to though.  I try to maximize profits mostly so I don't look to sell quick.  Everything eventually sells but it may be over months time.  Broker selling has a little luck involve I think.  I think people would make more money with ledgendary/fabled gear and masters but that equates to a lot of time grouping and luck is more of a factor.  Crafting is good income for casual players.  I can log on, make a few things and stick them on the broker.  As long as I keep the stores open, stuff will sell.  I've finally getting a few tinkering things sold and that has taken good long time.  There's a lot of competition and people are off-loading items near vendor prices because they are leveling.   Making money in the game has a little to do with playing and knowing the market.  I know I can buy acrylia near 1p and it sell it for a lot more but it's just not near the same time.  I think I basically just stick stuff on the broker and wait.  Works for me though and it's the best way for me to have income. </p>

[Lasai]

<cite>a1will wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I have many crafters one of each type, a tinkerer and transmuter, and 10 adv classes ranging from lvl 70 to lvl 32. With the addition of EOF areas, you have made crafting goods obsolete. There are a few that are decent, but as far as weapons, armor, or jewelry, your better off with treasured items from eof than mastercrafted items. Why lvl up a crafter then? My only answer is I have been bringing my crafters to 65 and stopping. The items arent worth anything but at least I can make adornments rather than spending 7p for an item i can make for 3p. How about adding resists to mastercrafted gear. Making mastercrafted weapons and jewelry comparable to weapons and jewelry as eof drops. Maybe even a quest to get a recipe to make gear for higher lvls like Deathfist citadel gear. Maybe gear sets like that or even make fabled drops like the YEW before that was used to make lvl 40 fabled gear. Rares arent worth a dam unless you can make an adept 3 spell or stuff for the house. Maybe arrows, but if you can do deathtoll and grab the bows from in there, you can make arrows useless as well. How about mastercrafted arrows again?? </p><p> The whole statement in this thread is to make crafters useful again.</p></blockquote><p>Your observations may be valid for the Post level 62 game, but to that point Mastercrafted has a solid niche in the game, and is far better than some of the utter garbage given as quest rewards and general loot drops.</p><p>I am seeing lots of quest and drop loots, I have 2 locked down chars providing materials for my Transmuter, and they only get to level when she does.  I'm just not seeing the rumored "plethora" of treasured gear that is supposedly so much better than the MC these toons are wearing.  Legendary, sure, and Ive looted fabled also that IS better, but treasured, in the main, fails to live up to the hype.</p><p>I don't have a clue why you even mentioned EoF.  Up to T4 the named drops and quest rewards I've gotten have been transmute junk, and the only really outstanding quest reward I can think of is the Nybright Bracelet.</p><p>I have no problem selling Bags, Arrows, ammo, totems etc, and I dont play the undercut market, I sell at a decent profit margin.  Today I sold 5k of those useless arrows btw.</p><p>I've come to realize that statements like "Mastercrafted is no good" rank right in there with "assassins can't solo", "sks cant tank" and all of the other wonderful and woefully misguided advice that is flung about like simian poo.</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>I've come to realize that statements like "Mastercrafted is no good" rank right in there with "assassins can't solo", "sks cant tank" and all of the other wonderful and woefully misguided advice that is flung about like simian poo.</p></blockquote> LOL, that's a good comparison.  There's definitely some fairly easy to get Treasured stuff that's better than certain Mastercrafted.  And not everything we make is desirable, any more than every drop in the game is desirable.  PErsonally I'd like MAstercrafted to be a little more desireable.  Throw another 5-10 itemization points at it.  It doesn't have to be as good as raid-drop legendary, but I'd like it to be solidly the top of the non-raiding gear, and atm it's not. I think one of the mistakes people make is only working within their current Tier, especially at T7.  T7 gear has finite saleability, because at the moment it's the top of the line, and there's no where else to go.  This is a natural consequence of having a level cap, and happened with T5 and T6 when they were top of the line.  But IMO a dedicated crafter should serve the whole market.  When T7 totems are plentiful on the market I don't make any.  Instead I look for gaps in the totem market in other Tiers.  I never market just Ebony weapons, I watch for a market void in T3-T6 and market those too.  ATM we're having broker wars on T7 arrows, so I'm just stocking enough to keep my loyal customers happy and not worrying about it, because there's plenty of other stuff to sell.  Sure, the profit margin might be less in lower Tiers, but it's also risk-free to get resources for my main and there's the difference between selling nothing because there's a market surplus on one item and selling something because I filled a market void, even if it's at T4.

[Amataelia]

People seem to forget that there's a market out there for all crafted goods besides just T7...........

[Rijacki]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote> There's definitely some fairly easy to get Treasured stuff that's better than certain Mastercrafted.  And not everything we make is desirable, any more than every drop in the game is desirable.  PErsonally I'd like MAstercrafted to be a little more desireable.  Throw another 5-10 itemization points at it.  It doesn't have to be as good as raid-drop legendary, but I'd like it to be solidly the top of the non-raiding gear, and atm it's not. </blockquote>QFE I don't think it should compete with Raid attained gear, but it should be the best you can without raids or thelegendary drops from the hardest instances and areas (the ones that are yellow to a level capped character, like Unrest and Mistmore Castle).  It should be the gear you can, and want to, wear in order to start raiding or to start doing the hardest group content. Handcrafted, in my opinion, should be on par with the easy to get Treasured (generally the stuff up to at least x3 of a tier), a choice of what to use while getting better. When DoF was released, crafted -was- too good (some mastercrafted was even better than the really good raid dropped).  To correct that, they swung the pendulum waaaay too far in the opposite direction for the next tier they added.  Hopefully they'll achieve a better balance in the next expansion and tier addition.

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's definitely some fairly easy to get Treasured stuff that's better than certain Mastercrafted.  And not everything we make is desirable, any more than every drop in the game is desirable.  PErsonally I'd like MAstercrafted to be a little more desireable.  Throw another 5-10 itemization points at it.  It doesn't have to be as good as raid-drop legendary, but I'd like it to be solidly the top of the non-raiding gear, and atm it's not. </blockquote>QFE I don't think it should compete with Raid attained gear, but it should be the best you can without raids or thelegendary drops from the hardest instances and areas (the ones that are yellow to a level capped character, like Unrest and Mistmore Castle).  It should be the gear you can, and want to, wear in order to start raiding or to start doing the hardest group content. Handcrafted, in my opinion, should be on par with the easy to get Treasured (generally the stuff up to at least x3 of a tier), a choice of what to use while getting better. When DoF was released, crafted -was- too good (some mastercrafted was even better than the really good raid dropped).  To correct that, they swung the pendulum waaaay too far in the opposite direction for the next tier they added.  Hopefully they'll achieve a better balance in the next expansion and tier addition. </blockquote><p>Well, DoF is a bad example because 95% of the stuff that drops there, raided or not just kinda sucks (maybe thats because of the items introduced in later expansions but it truly is junk). It is a transmuting fodder paradise. Its never a question what to do with it, light it up! The raid mobs there are a joke, we consistently get small chest out of x2-x4 raid mobs throughout DoF. The only decent instance is Poets and you can solo that place at 70 (a good portion of it at least) and you can 2-box to the djinn masters palace for sure.</p><p>On topic - Unless crafting gets on par with the adventuring side of the game it will never be a VITAL part of the game. Maybe its not supposed to be, maybe we need to accept that and move on, I dont know...</p>

[Illmarr]

<p>Ok, let's see how Mastercrafted stacks up by tier with dropped armor.</p><p>T1) We blinked and missed all of T1, sorry.</p><p>T2) While Mastercrafted is better than quest rewards and treasure chest drops, if one pursues the questlines in Kelethin or Darklight Wood (And presumably the new TD zone from Kunark in November) They will be through or most of the way through the tier by the time they are done. But the rewards leave holes. Recently on an Arasai SK I followed all the Darklight questlines. Found myself with three sets of legs, but no forearms or gauntlets. The couple of Blackened Iron I mined while keeping my harvesting skills up served to fill these well.</p><p>T3) Freeport and Qeynos Armor Quests. Mastercrafted may be slightly better, especially imbued pieces, but again will take time to harvest or coin to purchase rares when there is a free alternative that is in the ballpark and also gives Adventure and Achievement experience.</p><p>T4) Here's where Mastercrafted begins to shine. Depending on playstyle you can make the argument that imbued Feysteel is better than the legendary BP that drops in RoV and not too far below the Runnyeye BP. DFC Mastercrafted at 37 kills everything in the tier.</p><p>T5) Mastercrafted is going to be the best most players that aren't in a Guild dedicated to raiding T5 will see I believe. I never farmed Sol Ro, OoLS or Permafrost a great deal, so there may be stuff I'm not familiar with out there.</p><p>T6) Before EoF Mastercrafted pretty much owned for a non-raider, even post LU24. With the Steamfont and Klak'Anon instances there are now some easy to get alternatives available.</p><p>T7) Mastercrafted generally is considered to be starting gear at best, a notable exception being resist Jewelery </p><p>I agree with whoever it was that brought up the fact that once T7 is not endgame it'll become a bit more acceptable to wear.</p><p>Marketing in tiers lower than you was brought up. This is an option to be sure, but I personally don't like to slum in lower tiers for the reason that it makes it harder for the new folks working their way through. I can harvest more rares than they can, and I have the ability to purchase more rares than they do were I so inclined, so if I really wanted I could make it impossible for them to compete just so I can pad my stack of plat I roll around naked in when no one is looking.</p>

[Deson]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote> There's definitely some fairly easy to get Treasured stuff that's better than certain Mastercrafted.  And not everything we make is desirable, any more than every drop in the game is desirable.  PErsonally I'd like MAstercrafted to be a little more desireable.  Throw another 5-10 itemization points at it.  It doesn't have to be as good as raid-drop legendary, but I'd like it to be solidly the top of the non-raiding gear, and atm it's not. </blockquote>QFE I don't think it should compete with Raid attained gear, but it should be the best you can without raids or thelegendary drops from the hardest instances and areas (the ones that are yellow to a level capped character, like Unrest and Mistmore Castle).  It should be the gear you can, and want to, wear in order to start raiding or to start doing the hardest group content. Handcrafted, in my opinion, should be on par with the easy to get Treasured (generally the stuff up to at least x3 of a tier), a choice of what to use while getting better. When DoF was released, crafted -was- too good (some mastercrafted was even better than the really good raid dropped).  To correct that, they swung the pendulum waaaay too far in the opposite direction for the next tier they added.  Hopefully they'll achieve a better balance in the next expansion and tier addition. </blockquote>Partially disagree actually. Without rares being restricted to drops, I actually think mastercrafted is in the right spot- midrange starter gear for dungeon farming. My only beef comes from the t1-2,t7 itemization; the first pass under the current scheme. It wasn't that we didn't match legendary that bugged me, it was that after all the talk about risk vs. reward, KoS put in an absolutely ridiculous item progression that made high quality legendary/fabled too easy to get and left many treasured drops practically better than mastercrafted and again, too easy to get. Still, I'm a firm believer that without another tier of recipes requiring adventure drops and a non-incidental recipe acquisition, there is no rational resolution to our item quality that doesn't cheat one side or the other.

[IcterusGalbula]

<p>"Marketing in tiers lower than you was brought up. This is an option to be sure, but I personally don't like to slum in lower tiers for the reason that it makes it harder for the new folks working their way through. I can harvest more rares than they can, and I have the ability to purchase more rares than they do were I so inclined, so if I really wanted I could make it impossible for them to compete just so I can pad my stack of plat I roll around naked in when no one is looking."</p><p>I sold Tier 2 and 3 items to equip my Tier 4 character who simply could not locate Tier 4 rares and initially could not afford to buy them or the products derived from them.  There are quite a few high-level crafters on my server who charge a platinum or so for many of the Tier 2 items they make.  Indeed that is what got me into crafting in the first place.  I could not afford to pay 1.2 platinum for a sisal-based piece of armor.  I kind of wonder what those crafters do with all that money, but it isn't any of my business.  Perhaps they donate it to their guild.  I sold much of my Tier 2 and 3 items at half-price or less and still earned 5 platinum on several different days.</p><p>Now that my main adventurer is equipped, I need to decide if I want to keep selling Tier 2 items.  If I stop, I suspect the new people will be back in the same boat I was.  I've already lost interest in selling Tier 1 items.</p><p>Regardless, as to the OP, it is not difficult to make a lot of money selling MC items on the broker.</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote> There's definitely some fairly easy to get Treasured stuff that's better than certain Mastercrafted.  And not everything we make is desirable, any more than every drop in the game is desirable.  PErsonally I'd like MAstercrafted to be a little more desireable.  Throw another 5-10 itemization points at it.  It doesn't have to be as good as raid-drop legendary, but I'd like it to be solidly the top of the non-raiding gear, and atm it's not. </blockquote>QFE I don't think it should compete with Raid attained gear, but it should be the best you can without raids or thelegendary drops from the hardest instances and areas (the ones that are yellow to a level capped character, like Unrest and Mistmore Castle).  It should be the gear you can, and want to, wear in order to start raiding or to start doing the hardest group content. Handcrafted, in my opinion, should be on par with the easy to get Treasured (generally the stuff up to at least x3 of a tier), a choice of what to use while getting better. When DoF was released, crafted -was- too good (some mastercrafted was even better than the really good raid dropped).  To correct that, they swung the pendulum waaaay too far in the opposite direction for the next tier they added.  Hopefully they'll achieve a better balance in the next expansion and tier addition. </blockquote>Partially disagree actually. Without rares being restricted to drops, I actually think mastercrafted is in the right spot- midrange starter gear for dungeon farming. My only beef comes from the t1-2,t7 itemization; the first pass under the current scheme. It wasn't that we didn't match legendary that bugged me, it was that after all the talk about risk vs. reward, KoS put in an absolutely ridiculous item progression that made high quality legendary/fabled too easy to get and left many treasured drops practically better than mastercrafted and again, too easy to get. Still, I'm a firm believer that without another tier of recipes requiring adventure drops and a non-incidental recipe acquisition, there is no rational resolution to our item quality that doesn't cheat one side or the other. </blockquote>We're on the same page.  I just want Mastercrafted firmly better than Treasured, not sometimes equal to it. 

[trovan2]

thread: <blockquote><p>Fix Crafting</p></blockquote><p> Wait - its broken?!</p><p>I never knew! I don't seem to have a problem. Sure, durability gets hit sometime and the tables seem to have moods, but thats all part of the fun process! The reason I like EQ2 over other games (WOW,ect), is becuase this is a game where we are not GIVEN everything, we EARN IT.</p><p>DISCLAIMER: I have not read any previous posts.</p>

[Illmarr]

<b>IcterusGalbula: Sorry I should have been more clear. I was thinking of crafters already at or near max level.</b> 

[StormCinder]

<cite>trovan2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>DISCLAIMER: I have not read any previous posts.</p></blockquote><p>LOL.  I believe with most thread responses this is the norm.  Posters should only have to post this sort of disclaimer if they actually read the entire thread.</p><p>SC</p><p>PS  If you're just in it for the plat...the most profitable skill (time vs money) is professional harverster.  </p>

[IcterusGalbula]

<cite>StormCinder wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>trovan2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>DISCLAIMER: I have not read any previous posts.</p></blockquote><p>LOL.  I believe with most thread responses this is the norm.  Posters should only have to post this sort of disclaimer if they actually read the entire thread.</p><p>SC</p><p>PS  If you're just in it for the plat...the most profitable skill (time vs money) is professional harverster.  </p></blockquote><p> I've thought about that a little bit, and I think provisioner might be more profitable.  After all, the provisioner can sell all the rares and looted items, just like a pure harvester can.  But the provisioner can also convert many very cheap raws into gold by taking a few minutes of time to do it.  And they do not need to purchase advanced recipe books to do it.</p><p>I wasn't able to equip my main adventurer until I became a crafter.  Perhaps that is because I was new to the game.  Perhaps if I started a new character now I could equip myself without any tradeskilling.  But my latest new character, who is on a different server from all of my other characters, decided to become a provisioner instead.</p><p>Come to think of it even more, I disagree completely with the idea that a pure harvester is even remotely as profitable as a tradeskiller. </p><p>I can locate about 3-4 Tier 2 rares in an hour of harvesting.  If they are each worth 50 g that is 2 p made in an hour.</p><p>Once a crafter is developed, the crafter can buy 3-4 rares off the broker, make something out of them in 10 minutes, and sell them for twice that, also making 2 plat.</p><p>So the crafter can make the same profit of 2 plat, but in only 10 minutes rather than in the hour that the harvester requires.</p><p>The question then becomes, how much profit does the crafter lose by spending time in the crafting house training instead of harvesting?</p><p>It only takes maybe 2-3 hours to develop a crafter to level 15.  Assuming 4 hours are needed, the crafter loses:</p><p>4 hours x (2 plat per hour) = 8 plat lost to training to become a level 15 tradeskiller.</p><p>However, once a tradeskiller, the crafter can recoup that 8 plat in less than an hour in the crafting house.</p><p>Therefore, it seems to me that a pure harvester does not make anywhere near the amount of money that a crafter makes.... at least not at tier 2.  It seems that once the crafter has reached Tier 2 he/she can make 6 times as much money per hour as a harvester can.</p>

[Greul]

<p>I agree with the OP.</p><p>Crafting at the higher Tiers (especially T7) is really not worth the effort. Noone wants to pay anything other than fuel prices for MC items anymore either. How a re we meant to get back all the money we spend on the recipy books. If the items were worth a fe wgold more then the mob drops it would be better.</p>

[Greul]

<p>But you're not taking intpo account the time the crafter has to go and harvest the raws for levelling. Most crafters (especially one that are new) cannot afford to buy the raws and rares that are on the broker and must do both jobs in order to survive.</p>

[IcterusGalbula]

<cite>Greulin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But you're not taking intpo account the time the crafter has to go and harvest the raws for levelling. Most crafters (especially one that are new) cannot afford to buy the raws and rares that are on the broker and must do both jobs in order to survive.</p></blockquote><p> Yes, I am.  Suppose that through Tier 1 the tradeskiller acts as a harvester too, and does not really develop into a full-time tradeskiller until he reaches adventure level 10.</p><p>By that time the tradeskiller has a ready supply of all raws.  He or she obtains the first batch of Tier 2 rares the same way the harvester does, by harvesting them.</p><p>In other words, suppose the tradeskiller and the harvester make the same amount of money at the same rate until the tradeskiller starts selling Tier 2 items.  At that point the tradekiller can start making 6 times as much money as the harvester.</p><p>And it only takes maybe 4 hours at the very most to reach Tier 2 both as an adventurer and as a Level 15 crafter.  From 4 hours into the game onward, the crafter can start making a lot more money than a harvester (at least with Tier 2 items).</p><p>From that point onward, the tradeskiller can simply buy everything needed from the broker: all raws I mean.  If the non-rare raws and 5 or so advanced recipe books cost a substantial amount of money, then instead of making 6 times as much money as a harvester per hour, perhaps the crafter only makes 5 times as much money per hour than the harvester.</p>