Raidwide Buff for Fighters comming on LU38. What would be a worthy one for SK ?

[Nakash]

<p>Lockeye anounced on GU 38 Fighter get one of there Grp Buffs made Raidwide.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=373122" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=373122</a></p><p>Our old STR /STA Buff on TEST-SERVER is altered in the moment to STA and +90 to Spell Damage. First they take away STR from us while other classes get a plus or stays where they are...why ? As we all know the way that up to + Damage works is totally borked through the way the dividing for casting Timem, DOTs and AEs is working. That mechanism is total scrap. So what would be a worthy Buff we could give to the raid ? Seems they dont want to give or Lifetap to the Raid (which only Procs on meele btw). So i think they would't like to give a usefull mana Proc wich i would find a nice one. 15% Spell Haste ...gone to the Monks 16% extra Hate ...gone to the Bruisers +90 to healing ...gone to the Palas (And i think the also dislike that crappy skill) ??? for the Guards ??? for the Zerkers Whats left for us ? * +5% Reuse reduction ? * Mana Tap (i fear would End up in a much to small ammount) * additional Lifetap that procs on Spells Other Options not giving us a Perma Raidwide Buff but make Death March Raidwide. And for the Palas maybe making/giving them a Raidwide Cure to all...that would be Unique after the last changes...but i am not sure if they would like it. If we find something reasonable (and not the i usually "I want the power of god" suggestions)  maybe they will listen.</p><p>So What so you think could be our Raid Buff instead of that dumb +90 nobodywantsthis skill ?</p>

[DMIstar]

THats alot of STR taken away from us with no Equal return. The 90 to spell damage is pretty much near nothing. and looks to be a nerf in the end =/. My STR and INT is going to be a ton lopsided if this goes in....

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>It's actually good for me. My STR is usually well into diminishing returns. The + to spell dammage will give me more benefit personally. I'm usually with 2 Power regen classes as well, so the little power lost isn't much of an issue. Was hoping it woulda been Unending Hunger extended raidwide though, ah well.</p>

[Bowser]

If they made the group buff and the raid buff into two different spells then I would be okay with it.

[Nocifer Deathblade]

<p>I think swapping strength for +90 spell damage is pretty decent enough because +90 spell damage is useful for classes with spells..   </p><p>+90 spell damage has ZERO issue with diminishing return while strength stat has diminishing return that gets worse especially in raids where lot of stacking of buffs would push our strength too high into diminishing return to make it less and less attractive.. +90 spell damage is just straight up bonus regardless of how much buff stacking we get. That is more useful in raid..</p><p>Why, in the hell, is the cloak of ro of +65 spell damage  popular choice for many classes?  Now, we get +90? Raid force WILL love us, FINALLY! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> SK became from least popular choice for raids into more wanted raid class all the sudden..   Do you actually think strength would put us in more wanted class for raid over +90 spell damage? I think not. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Stamina is good as it is cuz it just adds some extra HP for everyone in raid.. </p><p> I take +90 spell damage over +50ish strength anyday..</p>

[MaCloud1032]

+90 to spell dmg. Whoot! even if its just a group buff just bought us a spot in the mage group for sure.  Perck up thats a +

[DMIstar]

Yes its nice for those who are the STR Cap already and not going to pretty much any difference in thier autoattack and CA's But those who are not.. are basically leaned over to Spell dots and spells for Damage unless sacing INT to up str.. Though im hearing that the STR was put on a self buff instead.. Which in that case im fine with.

[Wildmage]

Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>Yes its nice for those who are the STR Cap already and not going to pretty much any difference in thier autoattack and CA's But those who are not.. are basically leaned over to Spell dots and spells for Damage unless sacing INT to up str.. Though im hearing that the STR was put on a self buff instead.. Which in that case im fine with. </blockquote>agreed.  I honestly hope thats going to be done with all the ones that got str removed.

[Bowser]

Well if STR is being put on a self buff then it sounds good to me. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wytie]

Darksavanna@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>+90 to spell dmg. Whoot! even if its just a group buff just bought us a spot in the mage group for sure.  Perck up thats a +</blockquote> heck yea the hell with STR were casters for crying out loud.

[Wildmage]

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>+90 to spell dmg. Whoot! even if its just a group buff just bought us a spot in the mage group for sure.  Perck up thats a +</blockquote> heck yea the hell with STR were casters for crying out loud. </blockquote><img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />...<img src="/smilies/1069449046bcd664c21db15b1dfedaee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nakash]

<p>About the +90 to spell damage...</p><p>The guys who cheer to this. You know how it is calculated ?</p><p> Its up to +90 Spell damage as usual...and as far as i understod the mechanik it works like this.</p><p>Following dividers:</p><p>Casting Speed ...based on 3.0 Seconds</p><p>DOT divided by 5</p><p>AE divided by 8</p><p>Cumulativ:</p><p>some Examples (done from my mind) :</p><p><i><u><b>1. Spell where it works at its best.</b></u></i></p><p><b>69-Abominable Anger</b> 1 Second cast -Single Nuke</p><p>Casting Speed based on 3 </p><p>90 Divided by 3 = <u>Total Damage +30</u></p><p><i><b><u>2. Spell where it works with medium condition</u></b></i></p><p><b>55-Tap Veins</b> 2 second cast - AE</p><p>Casting Speed based on 3 means 90 Divided by 1,5</p><p>AE divide by 8</p><p> 90 : 1,5 : 8 = Damage + 7,5 Dam Per Enemy</p><p>Hits 8 targets under best condition = <u>Total +60 Damage</u></p><p><i><b><u>3. Spell where it works with low condition</u></b></i></p><p><b>64-Putrid Coil</b> 0.5 second cast - Single DOT</p><p>Casting Speed based on 3 means 90 Divided by 6</p><p>DOT divide by 5</p><p> 90 : 6 : 5 = Damage +3 Dam Per Dot Tick</p><p>Ticks 5 time under best condition =<u>Total +15 Damage</u></p><p><i><u><b>4. Spell that we use AE+DOT = Worst condition</b></u></i></p><p><b>70-Unending Misery</b> - 0.5 second cast AE DOT</p><p>Casting Speed based on 3 means 90 Divided by 6</p><p>DOT divide by 5</p><p>AE divide by 8</p><p> 90 :  6 : 5 : 8 = 0.3 (not sure maybe rounded up to 1) Damage +1 Dam Per Dot Tick per enemy</p><p>Ticks 3 time under best condition = <u>Total +3 Damage</u></p><p><i><u><b>5. Proc Spells like :</b></u></i></p><p><b>65-Everlasting Hunger</b></p><p><b>68-Grave Blessing</b></p><p>Proc = casting time 0 = based casting 3.0 divided by zero=  <u><b>ZERO</b> + Damage</u></p><p>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>Tell me if you got newer or more detailed information about how the +xx Damage mechanism works</p><p>but this was the last point i am aware of. Sure it give a little + to all classes that use singe nukes. but if you got DOTS or AEs or both of it. It does near to nothing for you. </p><p>Just want to know if the people that cheer here about the change to +90 damage are aware about this and also that taking STR from us is equal to shorting our power pool, because Atribbs for Power are 2/3 from STR and 1/3 from INT.</p>

[DMIstar]

a quick formula for it is: W = listed damage X = cast time (max of 3.0) Y = number of targets Z = number of ticks W * X / 3 / Y / Z = actual damage So for a +40 adornment and a 0.5s cast time nuke we get: 40 * 0.5 / 3 / 1 / 1 = 6.67 For a +40 adornment and a 1.0s cast time nuke we get: 40 * 1 / 3 / 1 / 1 = 13.33

[Nakash]

Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>a quick formula for it is: W = listed damage X = cast time (max of 3.0) Y = number of targets Z = number of ticks W * X / 3 / Y / Z = actual damage So for a +40 adornment and a 0.5s cast time nuke we get: 40 * 0.5 / 3 / 1 / 1 = 6.67 For a +40 adornment and a 1.0s cast time nuke we get: 40 * 1 / 3 / 1 / 1 = 13.33 </blockquote><p> As far as i know following numbers are fix for the calculation.</p><p>DoTs divided by 5 (even if the tick only 3 times)</p><p>AE divided by 8 (not counting how many are hit)</p><p>Did they change this ?</p><p>Unfurtenly i am not able to find back the post where the devs stated how it works. :/</p>

[DMIstar]

Ive never seen the Dots ticks and AE on a set numb er. have tried out the formula before as well..  you can only go so low on the numbers i would assume any way lol... Like Putrid Coil... with this 90 spell damage it comes out 90 * .45/3/1/5 =2.7 which will luckily be rounded to 3dmg a tick  in the system. but when it crits also what sucks is Pestilence and Tap Viens will not even be affected with this buff at all. This is what i want to trade a pure stat increase for $$ that otherwise STR would: increased attack rateing increased Mana pool increased Weapon Damage increases Combat Arts damage

[MaCloud1032]

<p>Ok you have all bitched and moaned about not haveing any raid buffs now we get his.  Who cares that it dont help us much.  The intire raid will hit harder.  If any thing procs taht is considered a spell.  look at how much stuff proc in a raid. if the whole raid on one spell got the full +90 to a spell you just did a extra 2160pts of dmg off of one proc.</p><p>with that buff we just became required for raids.  SO Shut up we got what we wanted a reason to bring a SK!</p>

[DMIstar]

It realy a mute point if our STR went to another Buff.. But the point is Fluff will Never .. and i mean Never replace a gain of a pure stat. Unless the pure stat is being nulled: In high raiding wise its diminishing returns.. But this doesnt effect just high end raiding. As for Raid part on this.. Depends who your leader is and how he number Crunches. It looks great i do say <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ..... I bet like hell it wont stack cause if it did good bye sks, hello monk crew lol

[Java]

I would personally love to see INT as an improvement.  Most of our abilities do gain benifit from INT as would casters as this is suppose to do aanyways.

[Nakash]

Darksavanna@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>Ok you have all [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moaned about not haveing any raid buffs now we get his.  Who cares that it dont help us much.  The intire raid will hit harder.  <span style="color: #cc0033">If any thing procs taht is considered a spell.  look at how much stuff proc in a raid. if the whole raid on one spell got the full +90 to a spell you just did a extra 2160pts of dmg off of one proc.</span></p><p>with that buff we just became required for raids.  SO Shut up we got what we wanted a reason to bring a SK!</p></blockquote><p>Once again.. </p><p>+ 90 Damage </p><p> does not work on procs. Procs are handled as casting time 0    90 *0 = Zero null 0 nada ! will add non damage.</p><p>read before post plz. </p>

[DMIstar]

<img src="http://www.dark-riseing.com/spells2.jpg" border="0"> Though Contradicting what i believed there is no Added STR buff on any of our Buffs on Test atm ..... Sorry for some blurred but didnt want a completly huge image..

[Controlor]

Azzaroth@Valor wrote: <blockquote>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>Ok you have all [I cannot control my vocabulary] and moaned about not haveing any raid buffs now we get his.  Who cares that it dont help us much.  The intire raid will hit harder.  <span style="color: #cc0033">If any thing procs taht is considered a spell.  look at how much stuff proc in a raid. if the whole raid on one spell got the full +90 to a spell you just did a extra 2160pts of dmg off of one proc.</span></p><p>with that buff we just became required for raids.  SO Shut up we got what we wanted a reason to bring a SK!</p></blockquote><p>Once again.. </p><p>+ 90 Damage </p><p> does not work on procs. Procs are handled as casting time 0    90 *0 = Zero null 0 nada ! will add non damage.</p><p>read before post plz. </p></blockquote>I believe there is a min damage that it can do so instant casts still gain some benefits. At least my lay hands as a paladin = instant cast with a +35 heal cloak on lay hands gets +5 heal to min and max. I will check with my illy on the +dmg portion on all his procs later today to confirm if there is a min dmg it will do or not.

[Bladewind]

Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><img src="http://www.dark-riseing.com/spells2.jpg" border="0"> Though Contradicting what i believed there is no Added STR buff on any of our Buffs on Test atm ..... Sorry for some blurred but didnt want a completly huge image.. </blockquote> The pally self health buff had a strength component that was slightly higher than what used to be on ardent belief added to it.  Maybe one of the SK self-buffs received the same treatment?

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>I have heard yes, a self STR buff is added as a seperate buff...haven't sen a confirmation Screenie though, so dunno</p><p>I'm looking forward to it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Controlor]

OK so here the poster who said that the +dmg to procs = 0 is incorrect. It does seem to have a min cap that it will give to. Example 1) Lay hands for paladin. Instant cast heal + tunares cloak (+heal on the cloak) gives lay hands +5 heal in both min and max. Example 2) Illy Synergism. 1.83 casting time for a buff that gives a proc. +10 dmg from tunare orb. Grants +4 dmg to min and max of the dmg portion Example 3) Grizz wand 1 hander with a dmg proc with a 2.0 average trigger. Same +10 dmg from orb of tunare. +3 dmg to the min and +5 dmg to the max dmg. This covers 3 types of instant cast abilities. 1 a direct spell. 1 a buff with a proc. 1 a straight proc from an item. ALL of which would be considered 0 second casting time. ALL of which have a benefit to +heal or +dmg. So this will effect all procs (cant say by how much but it will).

[Nakash]

<p>Thread goes wrong direktion in my eyes.</p><p>*+90 Dam topic ... Mechnanism is borked belive it or not. I try it just with SK spells if other classes get a plus in a x%o Range and you are happy with it...</p><p>* STR loss was a side Effekt and i just asked why the other Fighter get it as a plus and we got STR strippd.</p><p>* Point to of the Thread was to suggest a reasonable alternative to the borked +xx mechanism was failed</p><p>I just hope they will give us something usefull wich could also be to change the +90 dmg into +x%base dmg to spells would be the same but would work for all spell users.</p><p>Until no there are no news what will change i am done with this topic.</p>

[Java]

As for a raidwide buff?  How about Siphon hate?

[Spangles]

I read somewhere on here yesterday that Gift of Armament was going to go raid-wide, meaning we could be in DPS group 2 and still be able to buff the Mit of the MT.  Not sure how likely that is to happen, or whether our mit would stack with any other Mit offered from within the MT group, but it would certainly be of some extra value in a raid.  If the MT was into diminishing retuens territory, then we could give the Mit to the MA or to some unruly, overnuking warlock.

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>I do not believe Armament will stack with other fighter type single target Mit buffs. It doesn't currently (not even with Syphon armament within group), and besides the raid-wide aspect...no change was mentioned.</p><p>I really can't wait for these to go live. Looking forward to seeing the numbers for my bunch in action my-self. </p>

[Spangles]

<p>From the Test Update notes, posted on 20 July: </p><li>Offering of Armament can be cast on a raid ally.</li><li>Alternate: Siphon Armament: Increased mitigation gained by 33% more than before. Can now be cast on a raid ally.</li><p>You can also note that Siphon Armament will also be able to be cast raid wide, so if for some bizarre reason we end up as MT, we can draw Mit from anyone on the raid.  Could be quite useful.</p><p>Of course, these are just Test Notes and they might not actually make it into the Live version.  At least it is a step in the right direction for making SKs raid viable (although personally I have never had a problem getting a raid slot as either MA or as DPS).</p>

[DMIstar]

Pledge of armament/Siphon Armament are being changed to Target Raid or Group ally For casting.. ATM its just Group target. There realy is nothing new to target raid ally other then sks dont particually have a spell that does that and now we do. This comes in with the reaver changes in Next LU37. For dealing anything in comparison with this topic? .. No this spell rather old and realy not used. Both Pallies and SKs get pledge of armament and they will never stack.. As well as Pledge and Siphon Will not stack either. Pledge was barely ever used as it was now this will resurrect it a bit. Even though there is still stacking issues with it with other spells ;P ---------------------- I have not see the STR only buff for sks on test... will keep looking for it, in hopes there is. Theres other ways they could go with these Raidwide Buffs other then this.. ATM i truly think the itemization should of better going straight in. Primary ideas would be. Increase To Double Attack % Spell Casting Haste % Increase DPS Increase Melee Haste % Increase Defense # raid Trample incr % Spell /CA recovery increase % just some things i can think of right now... A raid wide Taunt or Siphon Hate would suck.. Hate is for Main tank.. We dont need everyone else in the raid to be generating more hate.  and these are raid wide buffs not help the SK only Buff. Also Contarary to Belief we have a Group Lifetap Everlasting Hunger ... yeah it sucks but we have it so idea was used already for quite sometime. to nit pick on current setup though.. Pallies Buff: Helps Pallies and Priests Only Sks Buff: Helps Crusaders and Mages Only and Guard STA Monks: Help Everyone Mages, Priests, Crusaders <spell cast haste> Scouts, Fighters, with Haste Bruisers Helps Scouts Crusaders, Fighters. this stuff needs to be tuned.

[Wytie]

Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><img src="http://www.dark-riseing.com/spells2.jpg" border="0"> Though Contradicting what i believed there is no Added STR buff on any of our Buffs on Test atm ..... Sorry for some blurred but didnt want a completly huge image.. </blockquote>hmm looks only group wide, i like that tho hello Mage group forsure woot

[Skeptycal]

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><img src="http://www.dark-riseing.com/spells2.jpg" border="0"> Though Contradicting what i believed there is no Added STR buff on any of our Buffs on Test atm ..... Sorry for some blurred but didnt want a completly huge image.. </blockquote>hmm looks only group wide, i like that tho hello Mage group forsure woot </blockquote>Remember, nobody has posted the zerker and guard buffs yet, as far as I can tell. I'm sure the zerker one will be something about melee, perhaps having STR and a bezerk proc... The 3 guardian buffs are + defense, + c/s/p, and +677 health. None of them make much sense by themselves for raidwide buffs, so we'll have to see on that one.

[DMIstar]

Its not about posting it. It just not changed or seen yet .. The Two Obviouse Choices would be Berserks: Combative Rage.. Group AE Buff until cancelled... and Guardians: Return to War ... Group AE Buff Until Cancelled. Ive doubled checked them and theres no difference. While trying to verfy where the STR went.. Still have not found it.

[Case21]

Strength hasn't been added to any of our buffs on Test. Paladins however have had it added to their Blessing line (HP Buff, same levels as our Caress line)

[MirageKnight]

As I have posted... Link : <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=371898" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=371898</a> <span style="color: #ff6600">Honestly, I think developer is destroying beauty point of arch type by doing this fighter buff things. Making "NEED or MUST have" of one specific class is not wanted for arch type, and even making hard to make raid form or making success. Having fighter would "HELP" even not being the dpser would be the way to implement imo. Having said that all fighter buff should stack each other and split weights off each other. Current category is.... spell dmg boost heal boost hate up/down boost cast speed boost Then as for example, SK buff be spell dmg boost 75 heal boost 10 haste up/down boost 5% cast speed boost 8% (numbers are just for illustrate) Different fighter buff has different "weight" on numbers. Making this as "YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS CLASS" to get cast speed isn't making fighters into raid easier but raid leader probably pick "ONE" specific one instead. Some already worrying about EQ2 is becoming EQ1 where specific class MUST be there to do task. Please reconsider the change.</span>

[Beldin_]

Elamshinae@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Strength hasn't been added to any of our buffs on Test. Paladins however have had it added to their Blessing line (HP Buff, same levels as our Caress line)</blockquote><p> Wow .. how i love to loose solo/group utilitys just because of some dubious raid-utilitys <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I have a good idea .. if SKs are in raids they boost everyones manapool by 5000 .. but if they solo or are in groups they will decrease the mana of the whole group so that noone has more then max 1000 .. wouldn't that be great <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Dead Knight]

Shalla@Valor wrote: <blockquote>Elamshinae@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Strength hasn't been added to any of our buffs on Test. Paladins however have had it added to their Blessing line (HP Buff, same levels as our Caress line)</blockquote><p> Wow .. how i love to loose solo/group utilitys just because of some dubious raid-utilitys <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I have a good idea .. if SKs are in raids they boost everyones manapool by 5000 .. but if they solo or are in groups they will decrease the mana of the whole group so that noone has more then max 1000 .. wouldn't that be great <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> 54 STR isn't that beneficial to your group or soloing anyway. It accounts for what, 30 power while soloing. And chances are, your scouts are good enough not to need 54 STR to do some DPS in a group. The sky isn't falling, we're finally getting some raid utility. Go and try to join a well known raid guild as an SK, then try to convince them that you're worthy of being in the mage group, see how far you get. I don't have this problem anymore, because I've proven my worth, but many haven't, so calm down and be happy that you actually have a reason to be taken on raids now.

[DMIstar]

Dead Knight wrote: <blockquote>Shalla@Valor wrote: <blockquote>Elamshinae@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Strength hasn't been added to any of our buffs on Test. Paladins however have had it added to their Blessing line (HP Buff, same levels as our Caress line)</blockquote><p> Wow .. how i love to loose solo/group utilitys just because of some dubious raid-utilitys <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I have a good idea .. if SKs are in raids they boost everyones manapool by 5000 .. but if they solo or are in groups they will decrease the mana of the whole group so that noone has more then max 1000 .. wouldn't that be great <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> 54 STR isn't that beneficial to your group or soloing anyway. It accounts for what, 30 power while soloing. And chances are, your scouts are good enough not to need 54 STR to do some DPS in a group. The sky isn't falling, we're finally getting some raid utility. Go and try to join a well known raid guild as an SK, then try to convince them that you're worthy of being in the mage group, see how far you get. I don't have this problem anymore, because I've proven my worth, but many haven't, so calm down and be happy that you actually have a reason to be taken on raids now. </blockquote>Umm It scales Correctly As a whole... You know the other levels Besides lvl 70? STR accrounts for More then what this raid buff will ever account for... Youll also notice no Raid wide STR increase hrmm wonder why ? Cause it does a little to much, this way this buff is limited to Casters and only effects DPS.  As for the comments on "this gives us a spot in the mage group" ummm how?  this is going to be raid wide, they can throw you in any group and its still going to be just as effective for them.

[Lord Hackenslash]

I dont see anything stating this will be a raid wide buff, i think the intent is to make us wanted on raids by buffing one group. if you have seen anything saying the buffs will be more than just a single group buff please let me know where to find it. so for now i think yes, welcome to the mage group.

[DMIstar]

Lord Hackenslash wrote: <blockquote>I dont see anything stating this will be a raid wide buff, i think the intent is to make us wanted on raids by buffing one group. if you have seen anything saying the buffs will be more than just a single group buff please let me know where to find it. so for now i think yes, welcome to the mage group.?</blockquote>umm besides Original Post... to Link >> Lockeye's Post ...... so yeah.... but other then lockeye directly saying it on that post.. nothing else has been stated.

[MaCloud1032]

Bloodravenger@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>Pledge of armament/Siphon Armament are being changed to Target Raid or Group ally For casting.. ATM its just Group target. There realy is nothing new to target raid ally other then sks dont particually have a spell that does that and now we do. This comes in with the reaver changes in Next LU37. For dealing anything in comparison with this topic? .. No this spell rather old and realy not used. Both Pallies and SKs get pledge of armament and they will never stack.. As well as Pledge and Siphon Will not stack either. Pledge was barely ever used as it was now this will resurrect it a bit. Even though there is still stacking issues with it with other spells ;P ---------------------- I have not see the STR only buff for sks on test... will keep looking for it, in hopes there is. Theres other ways they could go with these Raidwide Buffs other then this.. ATM i truly think the itemization should of better going straight in. Primary ideas would be. Increase To Double Attack % Spell Casting Haste % Increase DPS Increase Melee Haste % Increase Defense # raid Trample incr % Spell /CA recovery increase % just some things i can think of right now... A raid wide Taunt or Siphon Hate would suck.. Hate is for Main tank.. We dont need everyone else in the raid to be generating more hate.  and these are raid wide buffs not help the SK only Buff. Also Contarary to Belief we have a Group Lifetap Everlasting Hunger ... yeah it sucks but we have it so idea was used already for quite sometime. to nit pick on current setup though.. Pallies Buff: Helps Pallies and Priests Only Sks Buff: Helps Crusaders and Mages Only and Guard STA Monks: Help Everyone Mages, Priests, Crusaders <spell cast haste> Scouts, Fighters, with Haste Bruisers Helps Scouts Crusaders, Fighters. this stuff needs to be tuned. </blockquote><p>The current buff that they have for us will help crusaders, mages, everybodys sta, troubs, dirges, priests that nuke (furys/warden) and seeing that it does work with proc that means EVERYBODY.</p><p>Monk/Bruiser helps everybody</p><p>Pallies if it heals it will help wont affect or reaver or other taps but will affect our blessing, monk/bruiser heals, dirge heals, and priests </p>

[DMIstar]

Item Procs Ive never realy Tested out.. Thats why never commented on them.. At a visual Point They do not scale with Increased Spell Damage Thier Bases Stay the same ... Which pretty much says right there procs arent effected by it. I doubt if the base damage rises but is not shown on the item itself.. Easy way to find out is Sol Ro cloak.. Ex amine Proc items and see visually.. I tried with B one Clasped Girdle, signet of light from darkness,  and scintillating molten temper ... a few other a ugs and swords ...  Still no Difference. Though Have yet to run around with and without cloak to see if anything noticable changes.. I dont see why if INT has them all Manually Scale on the item that something else would not do the same and supposebly effect them.

[DMIstar]

nm .. had higher critical with cazics cloak on vs Sol Ro which shouldnt happen with 65 difference .. as well as there was no indication on the parse that leaned towards one or the other with the cloaks ;/..

[MaCloud1032]

It doesn't show on the spell its self.  Meaning you wont see say x spell hits for 100, when you put on your cloak it wont say xspell hits for 165.

[DMIstar]

The Cloak Gain shows on the spells itself np .. putrid coil shows straight off the gain.. But with the procs it shows nothing.. Now on parser Unless 65 is so minimum gain, Theres virtually no gain the lows and highs are roughly where they are going to be at regardless of the gain or not... But i could be wrong ... I knew for sure i wouldnt see 65dmg added to the procs.. theres no way. maybe 10dmg with a 65 gain ? Sound about right The equations wont work for procs due to 0 nulls it out, dont know the number /shrug well maybe when we get the 90 buff i can see the difference with 155 on and off, 65 prolly is way to low to ma ke a difference.

[DMIstar]

Please please tell me ppl know how the 65gain is calculated on the sol ro cloak vs our spells ;/... AKA the closest thing you will see of a gain is with abominable wrath due to cast time being high.. So sol ro cloak at 65 equals 43dmg gain on  abominable. This can be visually shown as well on  spell or with equations that are given through this whole board.

[SinVraal]

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Darksavanna@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>+90 to spell dmg. Whoot! even if its just a group buff just bought us a spot in the mage group for sure.  Perck up thats a +</blockquote> heck yea the hell with STR were casters for crying out loud. </blockquote><p> Log in and check the REAL amount of bonus damage , its NOT 90, its probably around 30.</p><p>The damage bonus is the 3 DIVIDED by the casting time of the spell. Your life tap has a 1 second cast, therefore it will give you +15 dmg, and +15 heal.</p><p> where as your  anger nuke will give you +30  bc its casting time is 1 second and has no heal component.</p>

[SinVraal]

<p>If Contract from below stacked that would be rockin.</p><p>As it stands, even IF Contract was a make or break it for raid invitation, that only gets ONE SK on a raid. if they stacked, an otherwise Junk buff would become better by the number of sk on that raid, and would probably be well worth bringing them for the buff alone.</p>

[Garnaf]

The biggest problem with +Spell damage is that the spells that get the most from it, need it the least.  For example, would you rather add +90 to Ice Comet or add a second / third / whatever Ice Comet to the raid (I'd rather add a second Ice Comet than boost the damage of the first by 90) I'd prefer if our buff sped up Recast timers instead.

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>Heard a rumor today about +spell dammage landing full off the first tick of spells in an upcoming change (aka the removal of normalization)...as well as less proc items and more straight up "+ to whatnot" gear etc for RoK. Insta casts would not be affected. Didn't hear about adorns etc, but I'm guessing this will affect more than just our upcoming raid-wide buff (and the pally heal one). Quite interesting though. </p><p>Just a rumor at this point. I'm trying to get a confirmation now about the source of the info, but it did come from someone I usually trust for information...coincidentally upon the return from Fan Fair <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[melaine_dvarvensplitter]

CHIMPNOODLE. wrote: <blockquote><p>Heard a rumor today about +spell dammage landing full off the first tick of spells in an upcoming change (aka the removal of normalization)...as well as less proc items and more straight up "+ to whatnot" gear etc for RoK. Insta casts would not be affected. Didn't hear about adorns etc, but I'm guessing this will affect more than just our upcoming raid-wide buff (and the pally heal one). Quite interesting though. </p><p>Just a rumor at this point. I'm trying to get a confirmation now about the source of the info, but it did come from someone I usually trust for information...coincidentally upon the return from Fan Fair <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>Interesting to see how this pans out Chimp. Normalization = poor idea by Sony.

[DMIstar]

I heard about the Change to spells to get rid of normalization .. I realy dont mind that change.. Though First i heard on the proc items being lessened... Im fine with that as long as theres no Cap on the +to whatnot.. Otherwise right now most people are at the cap already ....No sense switching out something for nothing ;P

[HentaiB]

<p>I don't know where this magical cap is at, but I think it is alot higher than people think.  More like 100% at full cast time of 3 seconds.  Normalization was a quick fix they did because the dot classes and the fast casters were owning parses.  They did this right before EoF came out and just left it that way.</p><p> Did some time on the docks with taking my new +89.6 buff up and down with a wizard taking his sol roe cloak on and off trying to find a magic cut off with lower level spells.  Found it to be basically 1/3 for a 1 second spell and 100% for a 3 second spell.  So I sit at +225 in full dps gear as I don't have the avatar bracers, but we can crank out about 1500 per one second cast spells once a mob is fully debuffed with crits.  I'm thinking we have a long long way from being capped on this skill.  </p><p>Also all of the Wrath "the dagger that gives +250 every 5 minutes or so" items that went to alts are going to suddenly become non alt items.  With maybe some large bid the first time they drop after changes.</p>

[Squigglle]

<p>i think shadow knights should geta a raid whide buff that adds to ur srt and sta attributes and give a increase on reuse timers.</p>

[HentaiB]

Spell timers seem to be what my raid leaders agree on as well.  Will just have to wait and see.  But I would count on the + to spell damage.  They seem to have there hearts set on us taking the brunt of them making this work.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Squigglle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>i think shadow knights should geta a raid whide buff that adds to ur srt and sta attributes and give a increase on reuse timers.</p></blockquote>I REALLY dont want a buff that increases recast timers. Decreases, yes, but not increases. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Squigglle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>i think shadow knights should geta a raid whide buff that adds to ur srt and sta attributes and give a increase on reuse timers.</p></blockquote>I REALLY dont want a buff that increases recast timers. Decreases, yes, but not increases. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> Lol... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>Fan Fair mechanics panel...</p><b>Fan Faire Panel</b> <b>Mechanically Speaking</b> <p><b> </b></p><p><b>Developers Attending:</b> Scott "Gallenite" Hartsman, Senior Producer; Chris "Archonix" Junior, Mechanics Designer; Chris "Aeralik" Kozak, Coder & Spell and Achievement Designer; Jared "Lockeye" Sweatt, Spells, Combat Arts and Achievements; Emily "Domino" Taylor, Tradeskill Developer; Joshua "Autenil" Kriegshauser, Associate Technical Director; Don "Silverfrost" Neufeld, Technical Director,</p><p> <b>Developer Presentations:</b></p><p><b><i>Chris "Aeralik" Kozak:</i></b> Chris addressed complaints about + spell damage and + heal power on items. Game Update 38 will change how those work by applying + spell damage to the initial tick instead of spreading it out. They will be adding a combat art version of the + spell damage that should eventually be added to items.</p>

[Harduc]

I wonder if they remove the normalization completly, so cast times are no longer in the equation too. I doubt it though *sad*