Anyone on test that could check our group buff?

[mr23sgte]

<p>Looks like a bruiser posted some screenies of there 1 group buff and another CA and they got some lovin ---what did we get added on ours ? just curious ......</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=372657" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=372657</a></p>

[Bladewind]

<p>Someone just posted it on the brawler lovin thread.  Looks like a groupwide +15.4% casting speed increase at master 1.</p><p>I'd rather have the taunt/detaunt boost <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[QQ-Fatman]

15% spell haste is huge, monks will be loved in mage group and MT groups. Bards with 8 pts AA into their group spell haste is only 8%. Illusionist's best caster buff Time Compression is only 20% and it's single target.

[Couching]

It's casting speed. Not reuse time of spell. It's kinda useless.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Useless for melees. Incredibly nice for casters. Some of my Warlock's spells are 3s+ long, and any stackable improvement on that will be noticeable. You wanted a reason to take a Pally's spot in a caster DPS group... they seem to be adding the reason. Bruisers got a 16% increase to taunts/dethreats... which overall won't be a huge bonus. Maybe 100 DPS worth when applied to a group with 5 DPSers using deaggros... It's okay for being tank, but how does that help in a raid? Casting speed increase would give a more solid raid reason.

[Timaarit]

It will also help CA timing somewhat. This skill will be loved by casters and liked by melee classes. The thing now is that how well it is balanced with other things. If people want 4 monks in raids after this, it will be nerfed to useless status. Or then it is possible that the utility of other classes is still considered better and thus monks wont still get into raids. But that remains to be seen, I am looking forward for this particular change.

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

I don't know if the uberest of uber raid builds would slap a monk in all of a sudden... but I could see a regular raid being built start to consider putting their decent DPS Monk into their mage dps group all of a sudden. Furies (the caster group healers) buff DPS stats rather well too, so it's not like you'll be devoid of melee buffs in such a spot.

[Couching]

I can't say it's bad to get more utilities on monk, for example, group deaggro 1.5%~2%, or 15.4% reduce casting speed. Though, comparing to troub, 34% group deaggro or inq, 50% reduce casting speed, what we get are still by far worse. With all the changes, it might be easier to convince raid leader to get one monk but no way to invite more. But we are still in the same situation that we can do a lot but everything is worse than other classes. If we can get something "superior" than other classes, it will truly help us.

[Lockeye]

The group buff changes are part of some other changes that were not included in the original release notes but will be soon for GU37. In GU38, a group buff from each fighter is going to become raidwide; these changes are in preparation for their final GU38 state. In addition, the grant avoidance buffs can now be targeted across the raid in GU37.

[Bladewind]

<cite>Lockeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>The group buff changes are part of some other changes that were not included in the original release notes but will be soon for GU37. In GU38, a group buff from each fighter is going to become raidwide; these changes are in preparation for their final GU38 state. In addition, the grant avoidance buffs can now be targeted across the raid in GU37. </blockquote><p> Very Nice <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I see this making one fighter of each class much more attractive to fill a raid slot, but also making multiple fighters of same class even less wanted.  Since brawlers currently only have one group buff, it is pretty obvious what our raid buff will be unless you are planning on giving us a new group only buff as well.  </p><p>Our grant avodiance buff is next to useless in a raid since we have to [Removed for Content] ourselves and go defensive to provide any sort of uncontested avodiance at all.  Also, even if we do do this, we still provide far less avoidance than a plate tank in offensive with a shield equipped.  Please fix our uncontested avoidance such that we have at least 25% in offensive and ~3% more in mixed stance and ~6% more in defensive stance.  The notion of a built-in round shield was put into place back when shields were contested and all avoidance was treated the same by raid mobs.  Now that shields are uncontested, brawler avodiance in the raid setting is pretty messed up.</p><p>I really like the overall idea, but I want my raidwide avoidance buff to be useful on a raid <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I'd also like to be able to tank/offtank raid mobs without folding a few seconds after tsunami goes down.</p>

[xKHONSx]

<cite>Lockeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>In GU38, a group buff from each fighter is going to become raidwide; these changes are in preparation for their final GU38 state. In addition, the grant avoidance buffs can now be targeted across the raid in GU37. </blockquote>Hmm, we have but one group buff and 22% raid-wide haste still wouldn't justify monks being on raids.  Now if they use the upcoming group deaggro AA and made that raid-wide that may help offset the nerf to scout hate transfers and deaggros.

[mr23sgte]

I doubt it would be our new De-aggro AA, what if you didn't choose that aa line - then you wouldn't have the raidwide group buff? I think they wil make our self STR/Wis buff a group buff.

[quasigenx]

<cite>xKHONSx wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lockeye wrote: Hmm, we have but one group buff and 22% raid-wide haste still wouldn't justify monks being on raids...</blockquote> Really? Say you have 10 scouts/fighters. If their auto-attack is 25% of their individual DPS (seems about right), you're talking a 5.5% DPS increase in those classes, or 2.3% over-all raid DPS. If you're doing 20k DPS, that's about 460 DPS. IMO, that's less than the difference between an average brawler and an average scout in terms of individual DPS.

[Couching]

Indeed, if our haste and brawler dps buff are raid wide. Any smart raid leader should seriously consider getting one monk and one brawler in raids. It's great that Devs have noticed that raid set up was unbalanced. No body wants more fighters who are not tanking. This change will help brawlers a lot since we are worst tank in raid.

[Bladewind]

Couching@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Indeed, if our haste and brawler dps buff are raid wide. Any smart raid leader should seriously consider getting one monk and one brawler in raids. It's great that Devs have noticed that raid set up was unbalanced. No body wants more fighters who are not tanking. This change will help brawlers a lot since we are worst tank in raid. </blockquote><p>My wishlist for raidwide fighter buffs would be:</p><ul><li>Guardian: slash/crush/pierce - increase accuracy for all melee</li><li>Zerker: berzerk - bring the melee dps</li><li>Paladin: Divine proc that does double vs undead (and hopefully that pally takes the AAs to double the proc rate)</li><li>SK: Life Tap proc</li><li>Monk:  since we only have one group buff, it will be haste/casting speed - nice for melee, healers, and casters</li><li>Bruiser:  only one group buff, it will be dps + aggro/deaggro buff - nice melee dps boost and huge overall aggro benefits</li></ul><p>This combination gives a significant boost to melee dps, a moderate boost to caster dps, allows healers to cast faster, and takes the sting out of some of the aggro nerfs.  I think bruisers will have a gauranteed spot from now on with the raidwide aggro/deaggro boost in light of the individual aggro nerfs.</p><p>What I really like is that fighters can be placed into groups where they get the most benefit since their main buffs will be raidwide.  You no longer have to stack a zerk with a brawler, as an example, for a good melee dps benefit.  They can get the same benefit in seperate groups where they do not dilute overall group dps as much.</p><p>I'm a bit worried about the usefulness of having more than one of a given fighter along, but hopefully other group utility will make duplicates at least somewhat worthwhile. </p>

[Kainsei]

<cite>Bladewind wrote:</cite><blockquote>Couching@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Indeed, if our haste and brawler dps buff are raid wide. Any smart raid leader should seriously consider getting one monk and one brawler in raids. It's great that Devs have noticed that raid set up was unbalanced. No body wants more fighters who are not tanking. This change will help brawlers a lot since we are worst tank in raid. </blockquote><p>My wishlist for raidwide fighter buffs would be:</p><ul><li>Guardian: slash/crush/pierce - increase accuracy for all melee</li><li>Zerker: berzerk - bring the melee dps</li><li>Paladin: Divine proc that does double vs undead (and hopefully that pally takes the AAs to double the proc rate)</li><li>SK: Life Tap proc</li><li>Monk:  since we only have one group buff, it will be haste/casting speed - nice for melee, healers, and casters</li><li>Bruiser:  only one group buff, it will be dps + aggro/deaggro buff - nice melee dps boost and huge overall aggro benefits</li></ul><p>This combination gives a significant boost to melee dps, a moderate boost to caster dps, allows healers to cast faster, and takes the sting out of some of the aggro nerfs.  I think bruisers will have a gauranteed spot from now on with the raidwide aggro/deaggro boost in light of the individual aggro nerfs.</p><p>What I really like is that fighters can be placed into groups where they get the most benefit since their main buffs will be raidwide.  You no longer have to stack a zerk with a brawler, as an example, for a good melee dps benefit.  They can get the same benefit in seperate groups where they do not dilute overall group dps as much.</p><p>I'm a bit worried about the usefulness of having more than one of a given fighter along, but hopefully other group utility will make duplicates at least somewhat worthwhile. </p></blockquote>Dogmae from eq2flames said that : <i>I linked some of the group buffs to test and heres what they are right now. SK: STR/STA buff had the STR taken away and +90 spell damage added. Pally : STR/Wis buff Stripped STR and + 90 heals added Monk : Haste buff had 15.1% spell haste added Bruiser : DPS buff had 16% bonus to taunts / detaunts Guard/Zerker : I didnt see anything different</i> <a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/dev-tracker-official-eq2-forums/8804-lockeye-re-anyone-test-could-check-our-group-buff.html#post197928" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Link here</a> Looks like those above are most likely to be raidwide buffs. Anyway, I'm not familiar with casters but from what others posters said +15% spell cast seems really powerful, thanks Lockeye or whoever changed our group buff.

[Bladewind]

Casting speed is how long it takes the spell/art to fire once you press the button.  Most of our arts are 0.5 second casting time, so the buff does not help us much at all, except to overwrite a few less auto attacks.  However, some more powerful spells have casting times in the range of 5 seconds, so it will help with those.  Also, anytime an emergency heal is needed, having faster casting time always helps.

[Darien al'Staff]

Can anyone list the buffs that will go raid wide for each fighter class?

[Kainsei]

<cite>Bladewind wrote:</cite><blockquote>Casting speed is how long it takes the spell/art to fire once you press the button.  Most of our arts are 0.5 second casting time, so the buff does not help us much at all, except to overwrite a few less auto attacks.  However, some more powerful spells have casting times in the range of 5 seconds, so it will help with those.  Also, anytime an emergency heal is needed, having faster casting time always helps.</blockquote>Yeah I kinda figured what it did, but I didn't think it was <u><b>that</b></u> good. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Bards only get 8% or so, Clerics got something like 14% I think, while we get a perma buff with 15%. It's good since it's the only utility we have after all. Edit* for corrections.

[EQ2Luv]

If the proposed changes to our group (soon-to-be raid) buff go live, I think the only thing brawlers will still need is an improvement of their uncontested avoidance.  As someone already said, its nice that our avoidance buff will be castable across raid, but will be of no use if our effective avoidance against raid mobs is near zero.  Indeed, if it less than plate tanks then it will serve no purpose at all. 

[Wytie]

<cite>Lockeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>The group buff changes are part of some other changes that were not included in the original release notes but will be soon for GU37. In GU38, a group buff from each fighter is going to become raidwide; these changes are in preparation for their final GU38 state. In addition, the grant avoidance buffs can now be targeted across the raid in GU37. </blockquote> Word heck yea some Raid wide loven sweetness

[khufure]

Lanari@Storms wrote: <blockquote>Yeah I kinda figured what it did, but I didn't think it was <u><b>that</b></u> good. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Bards only get 8% or so, Clerics got something like 14% I think, while we get a perma buff with 15%. It's good since it's the only utility we have after all. </blockquote>Not true.  After GU38 fighters can cast avoidance cross-raid.  I've seen the avoidance buff on my paladin alt avoid > 10% of hits, and he's not exactly geared well.

[Bladewind]

Timmey@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>Lanari@Storms wrote: <blockquote>Yeah I kinda figured what it did, but I didn't think it was <u><b>that</b></u> good. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Bards only get 8% or so, Clerics got something like 14% I think, while we get a perma buff with 15%. It's good since it's the only utility we have after all. </blockquote>Not true.  After GU38 fighters can cast avoidance cross-raid.  I've seen the avoidance buff on my paladin alt avoid > 10% of hits, and he's not exactly geared well. </blockquote><p> Lanari was talking about casting speed there <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>As far as avoidance buffs go, plate tanks are all useful so long as they have a half-decent shield.  The plate tank can stay in offensive while retaining their 18-27% uncontested avoidance, while a brawler has to go defensive (and thus hose their own dps) to get 16% uncontested at best.  Hence, the need for brawler uncontested to be fixed.  By fixed, I mean a baseline around ~25% untied from stances, along with small bonuses from mixed (2-3%) and defensive (4-6%) stances.  Without any uncontested avoidance, the dodge buff will give a very minimal gain, 5% at best, probably less.</p>

[Bewts]

<p>Raid buffs for fighters just lead to opening the door for everyone to have raidwide buffs, especially the classes that you would expect to see raidwide buffs (IE Dirge/Troub).  I think this leads us to trivializing 'group strategy' in raids to some extent and even moresoe when other classes besides fighters end up getting the same thing.</p><p>Also, our avoidance buffs end up being overwritten by each other, and typically you don't have more than 2 people tanking 99% of content so that really doesn't make a huge difference either.  Especially if we aren't at the top for uncontested avoidance, let alone doing crap DPS in defensive.  Try grouping with any fighter when you aren't the tank, and even with a 5% hate transfer to them, they will still cancel your buff with their own.  Happens everytime.</p><p>Overall, the additions to the utility of at least the Monks ( haven't followed the bruiser changes) are acceptable.  Still, I think at best we may replace a Paladin in the Mage DPS group.  At least its a spot in the raid.</p>

[iceriven2]

!5% decrease in casting speed would be great for sorcerers.  Our casting timers range from 3-5 secs

[Wildmage]

The more I think about it the more likely I think it is that avoidance especially in regards to shields is going to get a big shake up in the near future like Gu 37 or (more likely Gu 3<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[SageGaspar]

15% casting speed is really nice. Some of you might be coming from the perspective of melee-only players, I was too until a month or two ago, but it really is nice. Your DPS as a mage can be like a steady stream of spells chained back to back. Casting haste helps spell procs like melee haste helps melee procs, and casters are pretty beefy in terms of procs. Also when a troub puts out precision of the maestro (cacophony of blades for spells if you don't pay attention to these things <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) it is 100% about getting out as many spells in your arsenal as quickly as possible before it ends. It never hurts to be able to get out heals faster either, even if it is only by a fraction of a second. And there's the delay thing for melee too.

[Xanthar]

If they do make a raid-wide deaggro spell, it needs to be such that you target a person to "cast it on," and it affects everyone in the raid BUT that person targeted. Otherwise, we will assist in deaggroing the main tank, and since it is percentage based, we will deaggro him more than anyone else.

[xKHONSx]

Xanthar@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>If they do make a raid-wide deaggro spell, it needs to be such that you target a person to "cast it on," and it affects everyone in the raid BUT that person targeted. Otherwise, we will assist in deaggroing the main tank, and since it is percentage based, we will deaggro him more than anyone else.</blockquote><p> Evade - Renamed Evade Check: Non-fighters in your group have their hate reduced with the encounter. If Dragon Stance is not active, your hate is also reduced with your encounter.</p><p>If it ends up being the deaggro it would have a check for fighters.  It seems like it's going to be the haste/spell haste buff that is going to become raid wide.  That's nice that they're reducing hate transfers and deaggro spells for scouts and making certain fighter buffs raid-wide so everyone can do a lot more dps.  MT's are going to have fun when these changes hit.</p>

[Bladewind]

Bruisers are getting a +16% raidwide buff that effects both taunts and detaunts (and taunt/detaunt procs) where we are getting the casting speed buff.  Their buff will be nice for raidwide hate management.  I'm not sure if that modified elude for us is really worth the other AAs I will have to sacrifice to get it.  Our casting speed buff will help us a tad by allowing us to get in a few extra auto attacks that would have otherwise been displaced, but casters and healers in the raid will see much more of a benefit.  I know the ones I raid with are excited about it.