game engine

[Albrig]

<p>How difficult would it be to convert Everquest 2's engine to the engine used by LoTR?</p><p>(Wishing LoTR was as good as Everquest 2 - which is a bigger shame than if Everquest 2 was worse than LoTR)</p>

[Ronin SpoilSpot]

Which engine is the Game engine? Graphics engine? Quests? Characters? Combat? If you want it all, you already have LotRO <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> In any case, my guess is that the answer is "prohibitively difficult". Even if Everquests was coded as modularly as possible, replacing a significant component is never easy. There have to be a very good reason  for doing it. I haven't played LotRO after beta, but I don't remem ber much that was worth taking. /RS

[Rast]

why?  EQ2 uses the better engine if you ask me...

[Omgidomms]

EQ2 has a very good engine when it comes to quality. But i think it should run way better if it was tuned a bit more. I remember it was fixed a little at EoF launch, but not that much. Should always hope for more <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Siogai]

I found the LOTR graphics engine... clunky. If you want to talk about an engine upgrade, graphically, take a gander at Epic's Unreal3 engine.

[quasigenx]

<cite>Albright wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How difficult would it be to convert Everquest 2's engine to the engine used by LoTR?</p></blockquote> Harder than writing LoTR AND EQ2 over from scratch. Seriously. Any other questions?

[Beldin_]

<cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you want to talk about an engine upgrade, graphically, take a gander at Epic's Unreal3 engine. </blockquote> Besides from the nice landscapes i didn't find that Vanguard really looked better then EQ2 .. and it even used much more performance .. so i don't really see Unreal as a much better engine. Ok .. the animated grass looked nice <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Siogai]

Vanguard doesn't use the Unreal3 engine... if it did, Sigil took absolutely zero advantage of the engine's capabilities... Vanguard began development before Epic released their newest engine.  AFAIK, currently, no game on the PC market does, though Endless Saga (now cancelled) was going to, and there are some next-gen console games now coming to market that implement it. www.endlesssaga.com has an in-game screen from that engine.  Very sad that game will never see release. Also, here's another link to more info about the engine, from its developers: <a href="http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.unrealtechnology.com/htm...logy/ue30.shtml</a> EDIT: Correction, I believe Doom3 uses UR3 as does Unreal Tournament 2004.

[Dragowulf]

Shalla@Valor wrote: <blockquote><cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you want to talk about an engine upgrade, graphically, take a gander at Epic's Unreal3 engine. </blockquote> Besides from the nice landscapes i didn't find that Vanguard really looked better then EQ2 .. and it even used much more performance .. so i don't really see Unreal as a much better engine. Ok .. the animated grass looked nice <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> Everquest 2's engine has some goods, OKs, and bads.  for example: eq2's engine can create cool models, but cannot make very well visual stunning textures and enviremental graphics. layers for making graphics are all screwy and when an art dev from the eq2 team tries to create enviremental textures it's like having your drawing hand tied behind your back and you using your oposite hand. this is due to the engine and the way they made it thinking it would be "next gen".</p><p>since the complications to our engine hurt the overall "different armor graphics" part of the game, the eq2 dev team now has to do a major tweak upon the engine itself. (skeletal revamp)</p><p>tweaking the engine itself is hard enough taking 1+ years....converting it would not only be hard but would be too much for them to handle. dont think it can be done, and if it can, not easily and many things would have to be changed.</p><p>by the way, vanguard is on unreal and they made it look bad.</p>

[Siogai]

<blockquote>by the way, vanguard is on unreal and they made it look bad</blockquote> Unreal 3 or Unreal 2?  There's several incarnations of the Unreal engine.  UR2 seems to be the standard in the East, judging from L2 and its myriad clones. Still, if VSOH uses the UR3 engine, I'd agree, they *really* messed something up!  VSOH's graphics were... well, really not at all awe-inspiring as Endless Saga's were going to be.  Neither were LOTRO's, to be fair.

[Norrsken]

<cite>Dragowulf2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Shalla@Valor wrote: <blockquote><cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you want to talk about an engine upgrade, graphically, take a gander at Epic's Unreal3 engine. </blockquote> Besides from the nice landscapes i didn't find that Vanguard really looked better then EQ2 .. and it even used much more performance .. so i don't really see Unreal as a much better engine. Ok .. the animated grass looked nice <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> Everquest 2's engine has some goods, OKs, and bads.  for example: eq2's engine can create cool models, but cannot make very well visual stunning textures and enviremental graphics. layers for making graphics are all screwy and when an art dev from the eq2 team tries to create enviremental textures it's like having your drawing hand tied behind your back and you using your oposite hand. this is due to the engine and the way they made it thinking it would be "next gen".</p><p>since the complications to our engine hurt the overall "different armor graphics" part of the game, the eq2 dev team now has to do a major tweak upon the engine itself. (skeletal revamp)</p><p>tweaking the engine itself is hard enough taking 1+ years....converting it would not only be hard but would be too much for them to handle. dont think it can be done, and if it can, not easily and many things would have to be changed.</p><p>by the way, vanguard is on unreal and they made it look bad.</p></blockquote>I dont have enough technical knowledge about the engine to actually say anything about the textures (i'd love to know where you got this tidbit of information too), but the skeletal revamp prolly takes as long to do since its a huge thing to do. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> skeletal systems are fun enough to implement without the morphing they are adding to their new one. Ugh. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and to make it as a kind of side project, bound to take long. but completely switching out the rendering engine is basically something that would cause an integral part of the game to have to be remade, so expect a 3 year timespan on that project with a full time dev squad. And then some odd bugs when it goes live. Adn they'd prolly have to add an adapter layer to some stuff, or rewrite that too, so the gains in switching engines in performance would be really, really low. The look of a game comes down less to engine spec and more to your graphics department. you need good modelers and level designers to make a game look good. you can make a game running the latest and greatest engine ever look like something the dog wouldnt drop a [Removed for Content] on. Believe me, I've seen enough codeart (something a programmer (programmers usually have very little skill in modeling) whips up while waiting for proper graphics) to know.

[Dragowulf]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Dragowulf2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Shalla@Valor wrote: <blockquote><cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you want to talk about an engine upgrade, graphically, take a gander at Epic's Unreal3 engine. </blockquote> Besides from the nice landscapes i didn't find that Vanguard really looked better then EQ2 .. and it even used much more performance .. so i don't really see Unreal as a much better engine. Ok .. the animated grass looked nice <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> Everquest 2's engine has some goods, OKs, and bads.  for example: eq2's engine can create cool models, but cannot make very well visual stunning textures and enviremental graphics. layers for making graphics are all screwy and when an art dev from the eq2 team tries to create enviremental textures it's like having your drawing hand tied behind your back and you using your oposite hand. this is due to the engine and the way they made it thinking it would be "next gen".</p><p>since the complications to our engine hurt the overall "different armor graphics" part of the game, the eq2 dev team now has to do a major tweak upon the engine itself. (skeletal revamp)</p><p>tweaking the engine itself is hard enough taking 1+ years....converting it would not only be hard but would be too much for them to handle. dont think it can be done, and if it can, not easily and many things would have to be changed.</p><p>by the way, vanguard is on unreal and they made it look bad.</p></blockquote>I dont have enough technical knowledge about the engine to actually say anything about the textures (i'd love to know where you got this tidbit of information too), but the skeletal revamp prolly takes as long to do since its a huge thing to do. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> skeletal systems are fun enough to implement without the morphing they are adding to their new one. Ugh. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and to make it as a kind of side project, bound to take long. but completely switching out the rendering engine is basically something that would cause an integral part of the game to have to be remade, so expect a 3 year timespan on that project with a full time dev squad. And then some odd bugs when it goes live. Adn they'd prolly have to add an adapter layer to some stuff, or rewrite that too, so the gains in switching engines in performance would be really, really low. The look of a game comes down less to engine spec and more to your graphics department. you need good modelers and level designers to make a game look good. you can make a game running the latest and greatest engine ever look like something the dog wouldnt drop a [Removed for Content] on. Believe me, I've seen enough codeart (something a programmer (programmers usually have very little skill in modeling) whips up while waiting for proper graphics) to know. </blockquote>i got a friend who works over at soe. he explained it to me.

[Dragowulf]

<cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote>...well, really not at all awe-inspiring as Endless Saga's were going to be.  </blockquote>why did they stop developement?

[Armawk]

Dragowulf2 wrote: <blockquote><blockquote><p>Everquest 2's engine has some goods, OKs, and bads.  for example: eq2's engine can create cool models, but cannot make very well visual stunning textures</p><p>i got a friend who works over at soe. he explained it to me. </p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Cant imagine anyone at SOE told you the EQ2 engine cant make good textures, when its without doubt the best feature of the engine.. That would be odd. Compare a building texture from EQ2 to LOTRO. THe difference is huge, especially at those vital "10-20 feet away" distances. EQ2 blows other games away on that one area. </p><p>To the OP.. The LOTRO engine is not special at all, apart from water effects I cant imagine any reason to use it. Look at clothes in it, they are all over the place, painted on flat textures and all.. </p>

[ke'la]

<cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote>by the way, vanguard is on unreal and they made it look bad</blockquote> Unreal 3 or Unreal 2?  There's several incarnations of the Unreal engine.  UR2 seems to be the standard in the East, judging from L2 and its myriad clones. Still, if VSOH uses the UR3 engine, I'd agree, they *really* messed something up!  VSOH's graphics were... well, really not at all awe-inspiring as Endless Saga's were going to be.  Neither were LOTRO's, to be fair. </blockquote><p> I could be wrong but I seem to remember them saying its on a heavly modified UR2.5 engine or something like that. </p><p>As far as changing out EQ2s Engine I would say that it would be next to Impossable as SoE seems to LOVE to make thier own custom engines for there games, EQL, EQ2, SWG, and Agency are all on or will be on (in the case of Agency) Custom Designed engines.</p>

[Alku]

<cite>quasigenx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Albright wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How difficult would it be to convert Everquest 2's engine to the engine used by LoTR?</p></blockquote> Harder than writing LoTR AND EQ2 over from scratch. Seriously. Any other questions? </blockquote> There's no way this is true. It wouldn't be a quick or easy task by any means but it in no way would be -this- hard.

[Littl]

Vanguard uses a heavily modified Unreal 2 Engine. I like Lord of the Rings Online but I see no need for such a change.

[Siogai]

<cite>Dragowulf2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote>...well, really not at all awe-inspiring as Endless Saga's were going to be.  </blockquote>why did they stop developement? </blockquote>My memory is a bit fuzzy, as it's been over a year since they canned the project, but I remember the Producer posting on the now-gone forums that, though the team and the game were looking top-notch, it was basically another fantasy-flavoured MMO, and given market saturation of the genre, they felt that there was nothing sufficiently innovative enough within the scope of the game to make it competitive at the costs for developing it. Of course, I'm paraphrasing, but, it boiled down to production costs vs projected revenue, it seems. Still, it could play like EQ1 and, with graphics like that, I don't think I'd mind.  Maybe someone will pick up the idea and turn it into a 1P or console game.

[Dramadon]

The only area that needs serious improvement is their sky effects. I'm really tired of seeing the sun and moon and stars through clouds.

[Wildmage]

what exactly is the point of this thread?

[Norrsken]

<cite>Alkure wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>quasigenx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Albright wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How difficult would it be to convert Everquest 2's engine to the engine used by LoTR?</p></blockquote> Harder than writing LoTR AND EQ2 over from scratch. Seriously. Any other questions? </blockquote> There's no way this is true. It wouldn't be a quick or easy task by any means but it in no way would be -this- hard. </blockquote>Writing from scratch would probably be easier than adapting a whole different enginge to your current spec. engines can be ridiculusly different from eachother, and you'd prolly have to either rewrite your new engine, or your old code. Rewriting things tend to make wierd bugs appear that only the guys that wrote the code can even remotely easy track down and squish. I bet you that most the devs for EQ2 arent around anymore, so some knowledge of the code they have is lost, and debugging unknown code. Ugh. Ask basically ANY maintenance programmer what its like. you'll get a blank look, hands up in the air and nasty language for certain. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dragowulf]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dragowulf2 wrote: <blockquote><blockquote><p>Everquest 2's engine has some goods, OKs, and bads.  for example: eq2's engine can create cool models, but cannot make very well visual stunning textures</p><p>i got a friend who works over at soe. he explained it to me. </p></blockquote></blockquote><p>Cant imagine anyone at SOE told you the EQ2 engine cant make good textures, when its without doubt the best feature of the engine.. That would be odd. Compare a building texture from EQ2 to LOTRO. THe difference is huge, especially at those vital "10-20 feet away" distances. EQ2 blows other games away on that one area. </p><p>To the OP.. The LOTRO engine is not special at all, apart from water effects I cant imagine any reason to use it. Look at clothes in it, they are all over the place, painted on flat textures and all.. </p></blockquote> he explained to me how the layers for the graphics are.  they cant work it internally as much as you think. that is why the sky looks like a gradient. when i get home i will explain it a little better. drago.

[Editedmind]

I don't think it would be realistic to spend money on developing a new engine at this point in time, but... I think LOTRO is more pleasing to the eye than EQ2, in the way that EQ2 makes WoW look like a cartoon, LOTRO does the same for EQ2. I actually had to make a modification to one of the EQ2 files so that I could run it at full settings or it takes up too much RAM and shuts itself down, even then it's an extreme resource hog, while I can run LOTRO perfectly without any problems. The engine for LOTRO has some really nice features such as manipulating the bloom effects of an area so that when you step into an ancient blessed ruin in the middle of a foggy swamp it's like the rays of sunlight suddenly filter down on you, or when you travel to a cursed land the edges of the screen darken like smoke and everything becomes gloomy. All of these dramatic changes to the visual style of the game happen in real-time with no log or performance hitches in a single HUGE zone which could probably fit in 20 Antonicas or Commonlands. Now on the same top end system, while playing EQ2, I can run across a platform in Kelethin and the engine suddenly starts stuttering because of what seems to be a few small blue floaty lights in the distance. I just get the feeling that when a game starts to take up about 2 gigs in RAM at full settings but still doesn't look as realistic or impressive as newer games that you're not really getting a bang for your buck. I actually like both games, but while LOTRO works better with the graphics EQ2 definitely has the superior billing plan that doesn't restrict customers to playing in their own country, I tend to play an MMO that I can play with people all over the world.

[Ultimega2]

If they could get the game to take advantage of a multi-core CPU, then some of the stuttering might go away. From my experience, the video card isn't pushed very hard (unless one is running a weaker card) whereas the game will use 100% of one core in a CPU, whilst leaving the other core idle. Putting more responsibility on the video card could be nice, as well. I also want to see some 64-bit support.

[Dragowulf]

Ultimaomega@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>If they could get the game to take advantage of a multi-core CPU, then some of the stuttering might go away. From my experience, the video card isn't pushed very hard (unless one is running a weaker card) whereas the game will use 100% of one core in a CPU, whilst leaving the other core idle. Putting more responsibility on the video card could be nice, as well. I also want to see some 64-bit support.</blockquote> ya eq2 uses cpu more than gpu <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> that should be modified, and should have earlier and and not 4 yrs into the game

[Editedmind]

I don't think we can realistically expect proper utilization of multi-cores and 64-bit systems either... But I would probably pay a full game price for an expansion with just a revamped, optimized engine that either cut the memory footprint in half or actually gave a significant increase in performance and quality for the resources it takes up. Just imagine, almost photo realistic landscapes... I'm sure something could be done if they really wanted to, just look at UO which has had at least three face-lifts and even kinda 3D for an isometric game, Horizons had it's engine improved too I think, and DAoC.

[Daedalus Raistlin]

<cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote>EDIT: Correction, I believe Doom3 uses UR3 as does Unreal Tournament 2004. </blockquote>Heh, I'm surprised nobody picked this up earlier. Doom 3 is it's own engine - you wouldn't seriously expect Id to use somebody ELSE's engine would you? Seriously, Epic is about the only competitor Id has in terms of engine licensing... EDIT: In fact, neither of those games use the UR3 engine. UT2004 I beleive uses UR2 engine. As to the topic - what many have said is true. It would be easier to build something from the ground up than to alter one game to fit another's engine. It's like trying to put a jet engine into a car ... sure it can be done, but with the amount of work needed to restructure basically every single part of it, there is little point. It would be easier to just build something made for a jet engine in the first place. For one, pretty much all the content would have to be converted, and much of it altered to work with the different engine. Two, being completely different games, the internals are just so completely different. You could do the hackish way of just tying different parts of the engines together - which is akin to having a conversation between people who don't speak the same language, with interpreters who speak yet another language ... Man A gives Interpreter A some info to translate and pass onto Interpreter B who then translates and passes it on to Man B, who then replies ... simply put, it doesn't work well. You can try this yourself by going to any translation service on the web, entering in a sentence or two, and converting the results a few times ... it works, but it's just so wrong, and you'd be much better off by having known and written it in the correct language in the first place. Sorry, I seem to have gone off on a tangent ...

[Dragowulf]

<blockquote>Siogai wrote: *snip snip* ..which is akin to having a conversation between people who don't speak the same language, with interpreters who speak yet another language ... Man A gives Interpreter A some info to translate and pass onto Interpreter B who then translates and passes it on to Man B, who then replies ... simply put, it doesn't work well. *snip* </blockquote> couldn't have put it any better myself. although people don't realize how hard it is for the devs to modify our current engine. drago.

[Armawk]

<cite>Dragowulf2 wrote:</cite><blockquote> couldn't have put it any better myself. although people don't realize how hard it is for the devs to modify our current engine. drago. </blockquote><p> It does seem to have grown a little too, well, organically. Typical of big specialist projects with harsh deadlines..</p><p>Before people rip on the EQ2 engine too much it needs to be assessed fairly though. Its not very processing power-efficient, but is however damned powerful.. I cant for a moment see how the lotro engine is better apart from a few small aspects. Fog/bloom effects there rock for instance, and the distance fade is nicer. Foliage is inferior in my opinion however, as it looks identical but doesnt seem to react to passing players. Worst of all though, the lack of bump mapping puts it back a generation almost.</p><p>The engine needs to be seperated from the art assets.. SOME eq2 art assets dont live up to the ability of the game. Some are stunning. lotro is I think more consistent, but consistently at 80% of the eq2 best.</p>

[Dragowulf]

<cite>shaunfletcher wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dragowulf2 wrote:</cite><blockquote> couldn't have put it any better myself. although people don't realize how hard it is for the devs to modify our current engine. drago. </blockquote><p> It does seem to have grown a little too, well, organically. Typical of big specialist projects with harsh deadlines..</p><p>Before people rip on the EQ2 engine too much it needs to be assessed fairly though. Its not very processing power-efficient, but is however damned powerful.. I cant for a moment see how the lotro engine is better apart from a few small aspects. Fog/bloom effects there rock for instance, and the distance fade is nicer. Foliage is inferior in my opinion however, as it looks identical but doesnt seem to react to passing players. Worst of all though, the lack of bump mapping puts it back a generation almost.</p><p>The engine needs to be seperated from the art assets.. SOME eq2 art assets dont live up to the ability of the game. Some are stunning. lotro is I think more consistent, but consistently at 80% of the eq2 best.</p></blockquote> yeah when i made the comment earlier---"Everquest 2's engine has some goods, OKs, and bads. for example: eq2's engine can create cool models, but cannot make very well visual stunning textures"--- what u said is what i meant. i'll have to emphasis it a little more when i get home. the way eq2's engine is hardwired it makes it hard for the graphic artists to make some stunning visuals, which can be seen widely in other games, which include IE. LOTRO's fog/bloom effects, layers, etc. with the skeletal revamp going in we should have significantly improved performance because it wont be 36 (races/gender) with different skeletal models.

[Dragowulf]

don't know if this has been posted but i got this from...http://eq2.warcry.com/news/view/75540-Exclusive-SOEs-State-of-the-Game-Report Character Art Lead, Chad Haley: "The character team has been diligently working on pushing the look of EverQuest II into a much more high fantasy feel. Creatures should appear more exotic, weapons more powerful and armor more unique than what you'd find in real life. If we create something that you can find at your local store or see at your trip to the zoo then we haven't reached our goal. We are also pushing our engine and tools to new heights of quality. During Echoes of Faydwer development we experimented with animated weapons and synching animations between two separate objects. The fruits of these efforts are found with the Fae wings, cloaks and new mounts. We were able to get one animated zombie arm club into Echoes of Faydwer and expect many more with Rise of Kunark. (If you're lucky enough to have found this weapon try /wave sometime.) As many of you know we are also working on major character system improvements for the player characters. The main goal with this new system is to make it possible for us to create new armor in a timely fashion for player characters in EverQuest II. At this time I can't comment on any release date but I can tell you that the engineering team has done an amazing job supporting this effort as we make daily strides to complete this lofty goal. The new Sarnak player race will be the first completed character using this system and we are all very exited about showing them off. Players will also notice small updates such as the one in our next live update that allows human male characters to wear hair styles previously only reserved to the alternate appearance human males. Expect these small changes as the old is replaced with new. I look forward to seeing you all in Kunark." nice SS <a href="http://eq2.warcry.com/images/view/22078" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.warcry.com/images/view/22078</a>

[Siogai]

Heh, I said "think", implying some doubt, not stated as fact. Here is a list of some UR3-engine games though: <ul><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aliens_%28Gearbox_Software%29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Aliens</a></i> — (2009) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gearbox_Software" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Gearbox Software</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">America's Army 3.0</a></i> — (200<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Army" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">US Army</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APB_%28video_game%29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">APB</a></i> — (200<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webzen" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Webzen</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Black_Powder_Red_Earth&action=edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Black Powder Red Earth</a></i> - (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Echelon_Studios&action=edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Echelon Studios</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_In_Arms:_Hell%27s_Highway" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Brothers In Arms: Hell's Highway</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gearbox_Software" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Gearbox Software</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-33" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[34]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioShock" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">BioShock</a></i> - (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irrational_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Irrational Games</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackSite:_Area_51" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">BlackSite: Area 51</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway_Austin" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Midway Austin</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DC_Comics_MMO&action=edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">DC Comics MMO</a></i> — (TBA) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Online_Entertainment" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Sony Online Entertainment</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_No_More" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Earth No More</a></i> — (2009) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recoil_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Recoil Games</a> / <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_Realms" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">3D Realms</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elveon" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Elveon</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=10tacle_Studios&action=edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">10tacle Studios</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-34" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[35]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_Inertia" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Fatal Inertia</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koei" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Koei</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-35" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[36]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontlines:_Fuel_of_War" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Frontlines: Fuel of War</a></i> — (200<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trauma_Studios" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Kaos Studios</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fury_%28computer_game%29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Fury</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auran" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Auran</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-36" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[37]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gears_of_War" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Gears of War</a></i> — (2006) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Epic Games</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_agenda" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Global Agenda</a></i> — (TBA) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hi-Rez_Studios&action=edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Hi-Rez Studios</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-37" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[38]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_of_Victory" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Hour of Victory</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Midway Games</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huxley_%28video_game%29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Huxley</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webzen_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Webzen Games</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-38" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[39]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Remnant" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Last Remnant</a></i> — (200<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Enix" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Square Enix</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lineage_III" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Lineage III</a></i> — (TBA) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCsoft" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">NCsoft</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-39" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[40]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Odyssey" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Lost Odyssey</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistwalker" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Mistwalker</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-40" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[41]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_Effect" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Mass Effect</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">BioWare</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-41" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[42]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor:_Airborne" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Medal of Honor: Airborne</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Arts" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Electronic Arts</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-42" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[43]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_Madness:_Battle_for_Suburbia" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_Studios" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Artificial Studios</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-43" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[44]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboBlitz" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">RoboBlitz</a></i> — (2006) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_Sky_Entertainment" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Naked Sky Entertainment</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-44" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[45]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_Warrior:_Black_Razor" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Rogue Warrior: Black Razor</a></i> - (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethesda_Softworks" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Bethesda Softworks</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Worlds" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Stargate Worlds</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheyenne_Mountain_Entertainment" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Cheyenne Mountain Entertainment</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-45" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[46]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stranglehold_%28video_game%29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Stranglehold</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Midway Chicago</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-46" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[47]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Scourge_Project&action=edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Scourge Project</a></i> — (N/A) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Tragnarion_Studios&action=edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tragnarion Studios</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=To_End_All_Wars_%28video_game%29&action=edit" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">To End All Wars</a></i> — (200<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuju_Entertainment" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Kuju Entertainment</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-47" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[48]</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine#_note-48" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[49]</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_EndWar" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tom Clancy's EndWar</a></i> — (200<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Ubisoft</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_Rainbow_Six:_Vegas" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas</a></i> — (2006) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubisoft" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Ubisoft</a></li><li>(<i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_Human" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Too Human</a></i> — (2009) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Knights" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Silicon Knights</a>) - pending lawsuit (see above)</li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turning_Point:_Fall_of_Liberty" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Turning Point: Fall of Liberty</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spark_Unlimited" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Spark Unlimited</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turok_%282007_video_game%29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Turok</a></i> — (200<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Propaganda Games</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Undertow_%28video_game%29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Undertow</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chair_Entertainment" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Chair Entertainment</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_Tournament_3" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Unreal Tournament 3</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Epic Games</a></li><li>Upcoming <i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Kombat_%28series%29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Mortal Kombat 8</a></i> Game — (Unknown) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Midway Games</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheelman_%28video_game%29" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">The Wheelman</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midway_Games" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Midway Games</a></li><li><i><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEI%24T" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">HEI$T</a></i> — (2007) <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InXile_Entertainment" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">InXile Entertainment</a></li></ul> Source: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine</a>

[Siogai]

Heh, I said "think", implying some doubt, not stated as fact. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_3_engine</a> has a pretty extensive list of games using the UR3 Engine.

[SixSigma1978]

<p><cite>Wildmage wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>what exactly is the point of this thread?</blockquote><p>The point is player feedback!!!! Its every players responsibilty to offer constructive criticism to improve core gameplay.</p><p>I think an eq2 engine upgrade isn't impossible. Look what eve online achieved after the release of the Trinity expansion!!</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyYZmwhJ5YY" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyYZmwhJ5YY</a></p><p>Yes, I can hear the screaming : They're two separate games..the development of the "enhanced" EQ2 is parallel to the "classic" EQ2!!</p><p>I was with eve both before and after, and the COMPLETE overhaul of the engine simply blew me away. Its an incredible feat!! Keeping the engine updated with current times SHOULD be a huge factor in developer iterations.</p><p>While eq2's gameplay is far more addictive than LOTRO, it certainly falls behind in visuals. Everything looks oh-so-90s. An engine upgrade will DEFINITELY takes away the only advantage LOTRO has IMO.</p>

[boogar]

<p><cite>Siogai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Vanguard doesn't use the Unreal3 engine... if it did, Sigil took absolutely zero advantage of the engine's capabilities... Vanguard began development before Epic released their newest engine.  AFAIK, currently, no game on the PC market does, though Endless Saga (now cancelled) was going to, and there are some next-gen console games now coming to market that implement it.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.endlesssaga.com" target="_blank">www.endlesssaga.com</a> has an in-game screen from that engine.  Very sad that game will never see release.Also, here's another link to more info about the engine, from its developers:<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.unrealtechnology.com/html/technology/ue30.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.unrealtechnology.com/htm...logy/ue30.shtml</a>EDIT: Correction, I believe Doom3 uses UR3 as does Unreal Tournament 2004.</blockquote><p>Ummmm Doom 3 has nothing to do with Unreal , Doom is made by ID/John Carmack.   Using UR3 for an MMO would be next to impossible due to performance problem's. Well it is possible but the MMO would fail due to not having many customers that could play it.</p><p> If a modern Engine were to be used I'd go with ID's new engine. It hardly uses any memory and allow's for huge open environment's. Here is a demo map that is 80gig's. Carmack is "THE ENGINE NERD".</p><p><a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38582.html">http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38582.html</a></p><p><a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38003.html">http://www.gametrailers.com/player/38003.html</a></p><p><a href="http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23179.html">http://www.gametrailers.com/player/23179.html</a></p><p>  This engine could be used for an MMO due to the mapping technology. The game is easy to run.</p>

[Cragger]

<p>Necro much?</p>

[standupwookie]

<p>First off, I know nothing.  But I play both EQ2 and LOTRO. </p><p>There are severl problems that makes EQ2 a much lesser game for me in terms of graphics.</p><p>The big thing, and the one thing you cannot say EQ2 even comes close to LOTRO is this:  Art Direction.  LOTRO flat our blows EQ2 out of the water, there is no comparison.  The placement of objects, how the look in relationship to the objects/environment around them and the overall feel you get in that environment.  Talk a walk through the Old Forest, a lower level zone in LOTRO, and try to find something. anything in EQ2 that even comes close to that.  You cant.</p><p>The closest thing you can compare is Nektulos Forest with the Old Forest, and Nek Forest is a terrible looking zone, I think we can all agree on that.</p><p>I remember the very first few months of EQ2, and I walked out into Antionca and laughed at the sheer amateurish design.  Those empty Gnoll Tents everywhere, the Gnolls not moving and all facing the same way.  It was very, very bad.  Mob Placements, objsct placement, the colors used, it was all a dull brown world and it still is.</p><p>So you say big deal, it is more realistic.  It's not.  It's just flat out ugly.  How about the EQ2 player models, the ones that looked like special ed kids.  Fat High Elves....lol.  That was a monumental bust, so much so that when the SOGA models came out there was a 40 page outlash on why the Asian markets got those and the US got fat high elves!</p><p>EQ2 is just not a visually impressive game.  Want impressive?  Ride a horse into Rivendell the first time, now that is impressive.</p><p>EQ2 is like SWG in terms of it's art direction.  It just isn't very good, and even if the graphics were great it would still feel lacking in certain areas while you play.</p><p>LOTRO uses direct x10 which is makes a huge difference.  I do like some of the skies in EQ2, especially the ones that use a lot of bloom in the sunsets.  Those are nice, as they are in Vanguard too.  LOTRO has bad skies.</p><p>The big problem is this.  They designed EQ2 not to be playable on the machines that were around when it was released.  Their reason was that EQ2 was going to take advantage of the next generation of machines.  Well, here we are 5 years later and the game still looks dull and brown.  They can't take advantage of next generation systems because those things have jumped so far ahead of EQ2.  Quad Core....um, not really.  Dirext X 10...er, not really.</p><p>They should have designed the game for the systems they had at the time instead of trying to think what computers would be like in 5 years.</p><p>EQ2 is a fine game, much more depth and things to do than LOTRO but there is no way EQ2 is even in the same ballpark as LOTRO in terms of graphics or art direction.</p>

[EomerFarst]

<p><cite>Albright wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How difficult would it be to convert Everquest 2's engine to the engine used by LoTR?</p><p>(Wishing LoTR was as good as Everquest 2 - which is a bigger shame than if Everquest 2 was worse than LoTR)</p></blockquote><p>I hope not.  LoTRO's character look awful and animation are minimal <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />.</p><p>Just add more detail to what we have and the skeletal revamp and we should fine lol.</p>

[-Arctura-]

<p><cite>Albright wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How difficult would it be to convert Everquest 2's engine to the engine used by LoTR?</p><p>(Wishing LoTR was as good as Everquest 2 - which is a bigger shame than if Everquest 2 was worse than LoTR)</p></blockquote><p>(( To put things into perspective we can comparatively ask....</p><p>How difficult would it be to replace the foundation of your home with the foundation of another home?</p><p>Every zone in the game was created in it, all databases plug into it.. everything rests upon it.</p><p>Or, another analogy.... How difficult would it be to replace a human brain with someone elses? Next to impossible, there are just too many integrated elements.</p><p>But fret not, the good thing about having In-house game engines is they can be customized and modified at will by the coders on staff. This gives the game the unique ability to adapt and change as technology changes.</p><p>(to a degree of course, the key fundamental underlying tech would remain the same, but things can always be modified.)</p><p>Liscenced game engines usually dont allow that kind of customization (ie. Unreal, Gamebryo, etc)</p>

[Cragger]

<p>I guess I'm the only one that noticed that this thread was from two years ago? Hence its been necroed...</p>

[Nakaru-Nitepaw]

<p>One major step is to replace the cube mapped cloud layering in EQ2. it looks aweful sometimes when it gets really rainy. it looks fake, especially when the clouds are pink with a yellow-green sky behind it. I'm much happier looking at the sky without clouds. Just the stars and luclin and I'm happy.</p>