Carpenters: Expect a surge in Sales Displays [Archive]

Devilsbane

07-21-2007, 11:22 PM

Auric@Oasis wrote: <blockquote>In GU37, all characters on the same account will be able to sell simultaneously. This means alt-aholics (like me) are buying up Sales Displays -- especially Salesman Crates -- in anticipation of a sudden surge of demand (and inevitable price increases). This morning on Oasis, for example, I bought up several cheap (< 3gp) specialized Sales Displays and 10 Severed Firs for 10-15gp each so I could craft my own. At the time there were about 30 Severed Firs on the broker, most under 25gp. By afternoon, there were only 2 (!) Severed Firs remaining with the lowest price being 49gp (the other being 75gp). The rush has already begun.Higher end Sales Display should sell well too but the primary reason I bought up Severed Firs is that they are the cheapest and still have a decent number of slots. Not all of my characters are crafters (8 out of 13) so the non-crafters would use them primarily to sell loot -- especially those pesky hard-to-transfer LORE items.</blockquote>I have already started buying and reselling sales displays on The Bazaar server. Either they resale for a good profit, if not I will simply give them to my 9 other alts on my main account and the 6 other alts on my secondary one. Thats a total of 60 new display cases needed by my alts.

Calthine

07-22-2007, 12:07 AM

<cite>Galldora wrote:</cite><blockquote>I didn't see any mention of this in the GU37 update preview. Where did you get this information? </blockquote>Test notes. It wasn't a Tradeskill thing (or rather, it wasn't Domino's thing) and the preview Domino gave Allakhazam was about Tradeskills.

Galldora

07-22-2007, 12:37 AM

This is great news! I just went out and bought a huge stack of ebony to celebrate. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

FoxRiverRanger

07-22-2007, 02:13 PM

Borias@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>The economy won't fall apart. Sure for the first week or 2, people will buy a lot more sales displays for their alts, but right afterwards, things will go right back to where they are at now. I think this is a good change, so crafters don't have to funnel all their items to 1 seller and make sure to log out as that one.</blockquote>The economy will not fall apart because of the price of sales displays. It will fall apart due to market glut of crafted items. Increasing supply by seven fold will permanently decrease the pricing of goods. Consumable items in particular will be devalued on the broker. Currently a player needs to choose which items to stock from those items that sell well, allowing more crafters to compete. With a seven fold increase in the amount of space that one player can list, there will be crafters that list every item that sells well in bulk. With the larger listing quantities available items will not sell out as fast, prompting more undercutting. Should this change go live I will adapt to it, and all my crafters will move into large slot count houses and stock from ebony crates. I will be buying bag racks for my tailor to list backpacks, where now there is no reason to sell them as I do not have the space. My jeweler will have his own crates with space for full sets of jewelry from every tier. I will be buying additional jewelry boxes to list hundreds of each totem instead of the dozen that I do now. I will be buying additional weapon racks to list thousands of arrows of each type in every tier instead of limiting myself to just the top tiers. I will still funnel items between crafters; there is no reason not to place crates in my provisioner's apartment to stock additional quantities of the most popular items like totems and arrows. Currently I list only one of each type of mastercrafted item I stock, except dual wields where I list two. With this change I will have room to add weapon racks and list multiples of each item.When the removal of subcombines forced all crafters to level on finished goods, the amount of crafter product listed on the broker increased significantly and the price plummeted to near vendor sell back. Those crafted items that remained viable money makers never returned to the subcombine pricing. On the Bazaar, I and every other crafter that listed those items increased our output to compensate. Another increase in broker supply, this time up to a seven fold increase, will only further reduce the prices. It is the law of supply and demand, when supply increases without a commensurate increase in demand the price at which items can be sold plummets. In the long term this will be another change that devalues the work of crafters. For every player that sees this change and thinks "Cool, now I can sell more...", a hundred others on that server are thinking the same thing.

leiela

07-22-2007, 02:24 PM

* Deep Breath * Is this true??? is it .... is it??? Please PLEASE PLEASE be real i have waiting for my charecters to be all able to sell for such a long time !!!!! ... i need bigger houses .... . i need ... lots and lots of bigger houses !!!!!!

Jenarie

07-22-2007, 02:57 PM

Will each character still have to log in every 24 hours? Asuming characters will still fall off after 24 hours I really don't see this making much of a difference other then convenience.

Cathars

07-22-2007, 03:51 PM

<cite>Jenarie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Will each character still have to log in every 24 hours? Asuming characters will still fall off after 24 hours I really don't see this making much of a difference other then convenience. </blockquote> <cite>"Test update notes" wrote:</cite><blockquote>BROKER <ul><li>You can now sell items on the broker with more than one character! </li><li>All characters on an account can list items for sale at the same time. </li><li>Items remain listed as long as you log in with any of your characters at least once every 7 days</li></ul></blockquote>

Jenarie

07-22-2007, 04:16 PM

Wow items staying up for a week I think will be a much bigger impact then allowing selling with more then one character.

leiela

07-22-2007, 04:43 PM

gosh im so exicted it's unfunny... i feel giddy. Is there any word when GU37 will be hitting ??? rough ball park even??

Calthine

07-22-2007, 05:09 PM

<cite>leiela wrote:</cite><blockquote>gosh im so exicted it's unfunny... i feel giddy. Is there any word when GU37 will be hitting ??? rough ball park even??</blockquote> Normally Updates happen around the end of the month. If I were guessing I'd say the 24th or 25th, if there's no last minute issues.

Vonotar

07-22-2007, 06:44 PM

<cite>FoxRiverRanger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Increasing supply by seven fold will permanently decrease the pricing of goods. Consumable items in particular will be devalued on the broker. Currently a player needs to choose which items to stock from those items that sell well, allowing more crafters to compete. With a seven fold increase in the amount of space that one player can list, there will be crafters that list every item that sells well in bulk. With the larger listing quantities available items will not sell out as fast, prompting more undercutting. In the long term this will be another change that devalues the work of crafters. For every player that sees this change and thinks "Cool, now I can sell more...", a hundred others on that server are thinking the same thing. </blockquote> Stuff and nonsense, any crafter selling for less than cost is a fool, so there is already a "bottom line" under which the sensible people of Norrath won't underprice. Given that this will make selling easier I expect to see a small increase in the number of rares for sale. Undercutting in that area will be greatly appreciated, it's a sad fact that the same people who complain about Mastercrafted items costing 1 plat + are also the same people who attempt to sell rares that they find for 1 plat.... duh! There will not be a massive increase in items for sale, at least not on the scale that the doom-merchants claim. People already move their items between alts in order to sell them, so this change will just eliminate the need to move the items, items on the broker after this update would have made it there anyway under the old system. If people fill their extra capacity with items they wouldn't normally sell, so be it. We may actually see an increase in some prices as people realise that they don't need to sell cheap in order to free up their broker slots for more items. I already refuse to undercut the lowest price if it is too low for my taste. The items I list do sell eventually, with potential additional broker space and/or less pressure to clear the sales crates of non-main alts we may see prices stablise at more reasonable levels. I could be wrong, but the GU37 change will not automatically mean lower prices.

leiela

07-22-2007, 07:28 PM

At the end of the day bottom line for crafters is that there IS ONLY SO MUCH a human being can make in a day. I personally run 2 accounts and i can and do 2 box craft ... however with both accounts running what most people would call more than a "healthy" amount of time each day, my 2 vendors in 6 slot houses .. are rarely FULL. So really the increased amount of sales space means i won't be selling anymore than i do currently, because quite simply there are not enough hours in the day to make it.

Zard

07-22-2007, 11:47 PM

Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>We may actually see an increase in some prices as people realise that they don't need to sell cheap in order to free up their broker slots for more items. </blockquote> I agree. I routinely lower prices to move inventory because I have a limited number of slots to sell from. If I had more slots I would price things closer to what I feel it is worth -- not what I feel will sell quickly.

Off

07-23-2007, 01:57 AM

I'm also really excited both about the changes AND what it might mean for the economy. I think it will be more competitive, and I also think that businesses will thrive (esp. carps.). Most importantly though, I'm most excited about being able to sell off of all my toons (not many-like 5 or 6) and not have to switch/mail/shared bank/etc. It's not a matter of being lazy, as I've done it for ages, it's moreso a matter of convenience. HOORAY!!! Thanks for answering many of our hopes/prayers!

Rijacki

07-23-2007, 11:06 AM

Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>Stuff and nonsense, any crafter selling for less than cost is a fool, so there is already a "bottom line" under which the sensible people of Norrath won't underprice. </blockquote>Even without the change, there are a lot of unsensible people around. I've seen a lot of stuff priced on the broker for less than an NPC will give you (even with the price turning red as a visual marker that it's priced 'too low'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. However, I do agree that those worrying about the economy going bust are worried about the sky falling. Prices will juggle about a bit for the first few months and you'll see A LOT more LORE items on the broker, but the market will stabilise again.. hopefully the stabilisation point is closer to the price ranges before transmuting was introduced, at least on those servers where it is still high in the upper levels (T1 and T2 don't count, they'll always be high now).

Illmarr

07-23-2007, 11:44 AM

I'm so happy strictly from an accounting perspective. I no longer have to get everyhting I want to sell to my main and then write down or try and remember who should get the coin for which item sold!Thanks Sony

Krystara

07-23-2007, 12:01 PM

While I recognize that the prices on some things may plummet - I'm thrilled with this change as my poor alts are tired of having to wait for big sis Lys to get her act together with the handouts. I've wanted them to stand on their own two feet, but it simply wasn't possible. It was easier for the fae to get her stuff to Lys to sell, but my poor dark elf had to stand around biting her lip and swearing like a sailor that she had to depend on the kindness of a wood elf. Not to mention having to friggen mail everything over.. she sold so much stuff to vendors that it wasn't even funny. Good stuff too. Adepts, armor - all to vendors and out of the game forever.

VolgaDark

07-23-2007, 12:43 PM

I've got to say ... SOE just loves to go from one extreme to the next. Even through extremes are never good I really don't see this change as "doom&gloom" scenario. After first few weeks the dust will settle and broker's inventory will be more or less back to how it's now. I mean seriously ..... a person who has (hypothetical example) 3 hours a day to play will "dump" same amount of stuff on broker as he/she always done, just now it may be spread over few characters. People who sell for below NPC prices? I love those! I just buy all their junk and sell it to NPC for profit. Anyways ... I really don't think it's going to be "that" bad. Especially not in a long run. And it will save tons of headache of shuffling stuff around.

dartie

07-23-2007, 01:31 PM

Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>While I recognize that the prices on some things may plummet - I'm thrilled with this change as my poor alts are tired of having to wait for big sis Lys to get her act together with the handouts. </blockquote>I'll chime in here because I think FoxRiver's position (though perhaps exaggerated) is taking a straw man beating. Since we're all making our predictions, I'll be happy to put mine down for the record. Maybe someone will revisit this thread 3 months from now (after things have calmed down from this change, but BEFORE Kunark hits) to see whose predictions were closest to the truth. I doubt it, but what the heck: 1) I want to credit Fox for beginning his post by pointing out that he will adapt to/live with whatever change this creates for the market. I don't think it's fair to characterize a post that begins with that sort of disclaimer as a "sky is falling" perspective. Chicken Little doesn't say, "Hey, now that the sky is falling, how do we adapt to it?"2) I think Fox may have set himself up for a bit of friction with other posters by doing some unnecessary exaggerating. It's true that all basic accounts can have 7 times as many vendor slots as they do now, but it doesn't follow that the number of items on the broker will increase sevenfold. My 2 merchants both use 6 ebony sales displays and operate out of 2 Bayle Court, but I won't be buying 2 Bayle for any of the alts on either account--and it will be a long while before I equip all of my alts with ebony sales displays. I do a ton of crafting, but my alts will be operating out of 17 Tranquil Way (4 vendor slots as opposed to 6) and will be using rosewood strongboxes (32 sales slots instead of 80)--and I suspect that even that is going further than *most* crafters will go.3) I think a number of posters really are losing sight of the important role that limited space plays in reducing competition so that merchandise will move. I sell a few totems of the chameleon/jaguar each week for 1.5 gp. I don't sell many because there are other woodworkers who are willing to price them at 1.25 gp or 1 gp. When a guy puts of 20 totems of the chameleon for 1 gp on the market, every one of those has to sell before anyone will take a look at mine. My sales come in those little breaks when he has sold out and hasn't restocked and someone needs a totem of the jaguar. When 20 people can each put 50 totems on the broker and leave them there for as long as they want at 1 gp, I'm pretty sure my day of selling such totems will have passed (since it's just not worth the time to me to make them at that price). The reason I quoted Lysari is because I think that s/he has put it fairly: The price on *some* things will plummet--maybe more things than Lysari has in mind. My guess is that non-stacking consumables (totems are a prime example) will be the hardest-hit category of item by this change. I know I'm not the only crafter who has to balance concerns about turnover against concerns over price and concerns over inventory space. One of those concerns is essentially vanishing, and the result is that some of the revenue streams I have come to rely on are going to dry up. (Like Fox, I'll adapt. No biggie.)4) Keeping merchants active on the broker without the automatic logout will also (in my opinion) have the effect of permanently lowering prices. There are some competitors with whom I refuse to compete because I know they undercut me only for one or two days out of the week. Now that there accounts will stay active indefinitely (as long as their main logs in once a week), I will have to compete with them 24/7. Again, I'm not complaining. I'll adapt. But the way I'll adapt is by LOWERING MY PRICES, which suggests to me that there is more to what Fox says than folks think.5) Even though prices for crafted goods will be driven down (in my opinion) by this change, the crafters who are serious about taking full advantage of the increased space should be able to compensate for that change. I expect to lose money on each purchase, but make it up with increased inventory. I think the folks who will be hardest hit by the change will be the not-very-committed crafters who have found that no one else stocks X type of arrows or Y types of poisons or Z types of belts on their server and make a reasonably comfortable profit protecting one or two niches. If you live and die by the same niches week in and week out, I think this change will be a killer. If you're always trying to find new niches, this is just an opportunity for growth. But since you're going to grow by finding a niche where someone else overcharges and take it from them by undercutting, the result should be an overall lowering of prices. 6) Slimmer profits and increased competition will drive even more crafters out of the crafting market, so I don't think the price-lowering phenomenon will be a runaway affair. 7) I'm looking forward to the convenience of restocking with the crafters who are capable of making the items that need to be restocked. So is everybody else. Right now, I think the convenience will offset the loss in profitability that I expect. But if you check back with me in three months, I might be singing a different tune.<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I've dropped everything to focus on my carpenter. Anyone else doing the same?

Valdaglerion

07-23-2007, 03:15 PM

<cite>Scotia_The_Great wrote:</cite><blockquote><div align="left">We should all pray this isn't true! <div align="left"> <div align="left">If so the economy is going to fall apart like it did in EQ I</div> </div>Cross your fingers!</div></blockquote> OMG the sky is falling....pleaseThe same number of players are selling currently regardless, jsut on different toons and swapping materials back and forth. The items which are currently flooding the markets will continue to do so at the same prices because you just cant sell for less than 1cp.What this will do is allow different toons to be self sufficient. You will be more able to readily track how much money your carpenter is actually making all by itself etc. My carpenter will sell carpentry, my provisioner, provisioning, etc. I think specialized displays will see a bit of a surge because of this. I dont have to have the do it all sales crates. My specialized crafters will buy specialized sales displays and sell from their own places.This is a good change and kudos! Also like the change about everything being listed as long are you log into your account with any toon within 7 days (same as rent time cycle). Kudos~

Karlen

07-23-2007, 03:26 PM

There will be a lot more stuff sold from veteran sales displays now that we can go ahead and claim the other two...

Jesdyr

07-23-2007, 03:29 PM

I like it .. I dont think we are doomed by it. I would like to see the free rooms reduced to 1 broker slot with this change as a way to somewhat balance things out. In the end I do not think that will matter. Really I havent been able to keep the 4 sales displays I have full (just upgraded to 6 and havent even put crates in the 2 slots yet). However since it will be much easier to sell crafted items from my alts, maybe I will start listing more items overall.

Jesdyr

07-23-2007, 03:30 PM

Karlen@Befallen wrote: <blockquote>There will be a lot more stuff sold from veteran sales displays now that we can go ahead and claim the other two... </blockquote> ... oh .. I didnt think of that .. I HATE those things. What happens is the rich get richer. If I am going to sell something I need to price it for 10% less than normal just because I havent been playing as long as someone else .. BAH !

Grimwell

07-23-2007, 04:05 PM

Just to validate a few things: Right now, this is on the Test server. Testing is good! If this goes to live, each of your characters that you want to broker from will have to have their own house/containers to list items. There are only so many hours in a day. I'm leveling up four TS'ers on Nagafen so I can make gear for my main character for fun (Carpenter, Scribe, Provisioner, and Tailor). I am definitely making more items than I can list, but not a lot more. I won't need four houses to keep up with them, two perhaps. Perhaps. (that's just me though). If someone is undercutting the market, you can buy their goods and re-list. I do it. It makes me happy because it's almost like free coin. If someone is listing well below what things tend to go for on Nagafen, I buy them and instantly re-list at the normal market price, often netting 50% more coin - at essentially no cost to me (since I recoup my investment on the sale). If this goes to live, the economy on each server will definitely react and adjust - but then it will settle down. Transmuting changed the games economy, and in the short term there was quite a run on things. Eight months later the prices are normalized and it's no big deal. Personally, I think the same sort of thing will happen if this goes to live. There will be a spike on the price of containers for selling, and then the influx of items into the market will cause some chaos, but then it will shake out and people who are selling too short will find it financially difficult to keep up with it. Last note, if you can keep seven toons fully stocked on a broker... we need to trade jobs! I can't play that much and I work here! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Valdaglerion

07-23-2007, 04:25 PM

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote> Last note, if you can keep seven toons fully stocked on a broker... we need to trade jobs! I can't play that much and I work here! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> QFE QFE QFE ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

AbsentmindedMage

07-23-2007, 05:28 PM

I think the dire predictions of in-game economic collapse due to increase supply are unfounded. In fact, I hope that the ability to sell by alts does motivate people to sell more things. With the introduction of transmuting, many items have become harder to find since they are being purchased for high prices by people with the intent of destroying them to gain transmuting skill.

Rijacki

07-23-2007, 05:37 PM

As an addendum to what I said earlier, I think the loot drop item market will be affected far more than the crafter market. Lore items, specifically, will likely be more plentiful since there will be no trading around involved.

Zaldor

07-23-2007, 06:13 PM

When any kind of change such as this goes into effect, the first question should always be, why? I can understand one change or the other, but why both? This reminds me of when they made coin weightless, but also made it so that it automatically changes for you. Why both? Changes to an economy should be done slowly. Also, do we all really believe that the Test server is a true reflection of what happens on the real servers?

Calthine

07-23-2007, 06:25 PM

Lilj

07-23-2007, 06:41 PM

<cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote>... Also, do we all really believe that the Test server is a true reflection of what happens on the real servers? </blockquote>No, not really. This is not meant as a critique of test or should in any way be taken as me saying Test doesn't work. With that said, Test does not have an economy as live. If you list the broker and list everything, you can come up with something like 37 pages and that's it. Tests economy is more a 'let's trade items' economy or a 'let's just help each other economy, it's not a monetary economy. So I doubt we will be able to see the effects on the economy before this change hits live, because Test will not be able to reflect it.

ottugi

07-23-2007, 06:54 PM

I don't know if everyone will be using their broker slots for selling things. Toons with just a basic inn can give you 4 more slots to store things and that's just what I do with alts. I currently use all alt's broker slots to store things actually as I don't do whole lot of selling. GU will be great since I don't have to remember to log out with selling toons at the end of the day. I may just be an anomaly.

Off

07-23-2007, 07:06 PM

<cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote>When any kind of change such as this goes into effect, the first question should always be, why? I can understand one change or the other, but why both? This reminds me of when they made coin weightless, but also made it so that it automatically changes for you. Why both? Changes to an economy should be done slowly. Also, do we all really believe that the Test server is a true reflection of what happens on the real servers? </blockquote>Do you not like the changes of the coin not only not weighing you down, but also changing it for you? It's not changing the economy per say, it's simply making carrying money easier. This is especially helpful when you are in a zone and there are no bankers to change it for you. Like Cal said, where's the harm? Better yet, what difference does it make? Whether they changed both now or one now and one later, it was going to be done anyway, so why not just kill two birds with one stone, so to speak?

Rijacki

07-23-2007, 08:58 PM

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote>... Also, do we all really believe that the Test server is a true reflection of what happens on the real servers? </blockquote>No, not really. This is not meant as a critique of test or should in any way be taken as me saying Test doesn't work. With that said, Test does not have an economy as live. If you list the broker and list everything, you can come up with something like 37 pages and that's it. Tests economy is more a 'let's trade items' economy or a 'let's just help each other economy, it's not a monetary economy. So I doubt we will be able to see the effects on the economy before this change hits live, because Test will not be able to reflect it. </blockquote>The purpose of it being on Test is not to "test" what the effect it will have on the economy just to test the mechanics of the change. I don't think there will be any attempt to "test the effect on the economy" because it is frankly impossible. Eeach server's economy is different. In addition, the impact on the economy is not the primary reason for the change or something that is likely being considered for determining it's inclusion.

CrypticFirefly

07-23-2007, 09:04 PM

dartie wrote: <blockquote>Lysari@Antonia Bayle wrote:<snip>4) Keeping merchants active on the broker without the automatic logout will also (in my opinion) have the effect of permanently lowering prices. There are some competitors with whom I refuse to compete because I know they undercut me only for one or two days out of the week. Now that there accounts will stay active indefinitely (as long as their main logs in once a week), I will have to compete with them 24/7. Again, I'm not complaining. I'll adapt. But the way I'll adapt is by LOWERING MY PRICES, which suggests to me that there is more to what Fox says than folks think.</blockquote>Indeed, I think the "log on once every seven days" change is going to have a much larger effect than allowing characters to sell simultaneously. I'm hoping that the changes to tradeskill writs that are expected will help get rid of the people who grind 200 of something an price it below the opportunity cost of the raws required to make the item.

Calthine

07-23-2007, 10:28 PM

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote> If this goes to live, the economy on each server will definitely react and adjust - but then it will settle down. </blockquote> QFE. Everytime there's a major charge, be it a new expansion, a new tradeskill or a new goodie, the market fluxes. It takes a month or two for things to settle out. Thus far EQ2 hasn't had rampant inflation.

Meio

07-24-2007, 04:52 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote> If this goes to live, the economy on each server will definitely react and adjust - but then it will settle down. </blockquote> QFE. Everytime there's a major charge, be it a new expansion, a new tradeskill or a new goodie, the market fluxes. It takes a month or two for things to settle out. Thus far EQ2 hasn't had rampant inflation. </blockquote>Agree, there was no inflation, but we had a deflation on crafted stuff when they removed subs. If people can put even more stuff on the broker the chance for another deflation is high.

Deson

07-24-2007, 07:04 AM

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote> If this goes to live, the economy on each server will definitely react and adjust - but then it will settle down. </blockquote> QFE. Everytime there's a major charge, be it a new expansion, a new tradeskill or a new goodie, the market fluxes. It takes a month or two for things to settle out. Thus far EQ2 hasn't had rampant inflation. </blockquote>Agree, there was no inflation, but we had a deflation on crafted stuff when they removed subs. If people can put even more stuff on the broker the chance for another deflation is high. </blockquote>While I'm taking a wait and see for the long term effect of the mass of volume soon to be available(recent convert to the harmless school myself), using Lu24 as any sort of gauge just doesn't work;entirely too much changed simultaneously for any meaningful inference . The process changed making, more crafters(or at least more alts of crafters); the speed at which volume could be made changed, adding more incentive to craft(for those so concerned with production); but perhaps most importantly, the value of the crafted items themselves was severely whacked relative to drops(especially t7 crafted). Crafted items aren't being changed this time and, as Grimwell hinted at, it will still take real time to make all that product. Those inclined to keep the market depressed are already doing it and everyone else isn't suddenly going to lower the value of their time in either creation or acquisition. When the dust settles- if it even rises- there will likely be a negligible shift in cost and merely a larger volume of goods-mostly looted. If anything, adventurers should be the wary ones because of the increased ability to leave drops that would otherwise be vendored on the broker(though transmuting has a good handle on that too).

Nuhus

07-24-2007, 07:20 AM

I'm looking at it this way. I have my Sage, Provisioner, Woodworker with limited time to spend on each my output will remain the same I just won't have to transfer it to my Sage to sell on the broker. Yeah it gives you more room but I can't see that as an issue, my Sage has more room then he'll ever need anyways.

Meio

07-24-2007, 07:42 AM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote> If this goes to live, the economy on each server will definitely react and adjust - but then it will settle down. </blockquote> QFE. Everytime there's a major charge, be it a new expansion, a new tradeskill or a new goodie, the market fluxes. It takes a month or two for things to settle out. Thus far EQ2 hasn't had rampant inflation. </blockquote>Agree, there was no inflation, but we had a deflation on crafted stuff when they removed subs. If people can put even more stuff on the broker the chance for another deflation is high. </blockquote>While I'm taking a wait and see for the long term effect of the mass of volume soon to be available(recent convert to the harmless school myself), using Lu24 as any sort of gauge just doesn't work;entirely too much changed simultaneously for any meaningful inference . The process changed making, more crafters(or at least more alts of crafters); the speed at which volume could be made changed, adding more incentive to craft(for those so concerned with production); but perhaps most importantly, the value of the crafted items themselves was severely whacked relative to drops(especially t7 crafted). Crafted items aren't being changed this time and, as Grimwell hinted at, it will still take real time to make all that product. Those inclined to keep the market depressed are already doing it and everyone else isn't suddenly going to lower the value of their time in either creation or acquisition. When the dust settles- if it even rises- there will likely be a negligible shift in cost and merely a larger volume of goods-mostly looted. If anything, adventurers should be the wary ones because of the increased ability to leave drops that would otherwise be vendored on the broker(though transmuting has a good handle on that too). </blockquote>Agree to some of it. On the other hand you could see a deflation on stuff which was only player made and had no competition from drops. For example the price of strong boxes dropped extremly, because people could mass produce them. To stick with strong boxes there has been 2 deflations allready. The first one when they changed it so that empty boxes could be placed inside other boxes and the second one when they removed subs. The new change could make that a botting carpenter could self supply the demand for strong boxes for a whole server if he has so many selling slots.

Deson

07-24-2007, 08:12 AM

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote> If this goes to live, the economy on each server will definitely react and adjust - but then it will settle down. </blockquote> QFE. Everytime there's a major charge, be it a new expansion, a new tradeskill or a new goodie, the market fluxes. It takes a month or two for things to settle out. Thus far EQ2 hasn't had rampant inflation. </blockquote>Agree, there was no inflation, but we had a deflation on crafted stuff when they removed subs. If people can put even more stuff on the broker the chance for another deflation is high. </blockquote>While I'm taking a wait and see for the long term effect of the mass of volume soon to be available(recent convert to the harmless school myself), using Lu24 as any sort of gauge just doesn't work;entirely too much changed simultaneously for any meaningful inference . The process changed making, more crafters(or at least more alts of crafters); the speed at which volume could be made changed, adding more incentive to craft(for those so concerned with production); but perhaps most importantly, the value of the crafted items themselves was severely whacked relative to drops(especially t7 crafted). Crafted items aren't being changed this time and, as Grimwell hinted at, it will still take real time to make all that product. Those inclined to keep the market depressed are already doing it and everyone else isn't suddenly going to lower the value of their time in either creation or acquisition. When the dust settles- if it even rises- there will likely be a negligible shift in cost and merely a larger volume of goods-mostly looted. If anything, adventurers should be the wary ones because of the increased ability to leave drops that would otherwise be vendored on the broker(though transmuting has a good handle on that too). </blockquote>Agree to some of it. On the other hand you could see a deflation on stuff which was only player made and had no competition from drops. For example the price of strong boxes dropped extremly, because people could mass produce them. To stick with strong boxes there has been 2 deflations allready. The first one when they changed it so that empty boxes could be placed inside other boxes and the second one when they removed subs. The new change could make that a botting carpenter could self supply the demand for strong boxes for a whole server if he has so many selling slots. </blockquote>For the first devaluation, nothing changed on my server so I can't comment on it(besides, I think that was still during online selling and all prices were weird then based on time-zone). The second, time invested in making them went down and the harvest volume of raws went up, reduced price in that scenario was almost a given but was replaced by the ability to make far more in the same volume of time as previous. Provisioners are much the same; no more hours of crafting just to make a long duration stack but that's been replaced by a low-cost, high-volume market. If anything for the time invested, provisioners are likely making more than they used to per unit of time invested. This change is not changing the speed of production nor the cost so none of the factors in previous changes are occurring. People underselling the market on purpose were doing well to stay fully stocked prior and this does nothing to them; if people can bot the supply after the change, they can and likely are doing it now. At the same time, those who were grind and dumping have a new incentive to do writs and keep product of the market. I could be wrong but, no factors that affect price save for the potential in listed volume(which will still have the same labor costs) and Grimwell put that one pretty well already.

Meio

07-24-2007, 10:22 AM

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><blockquote>.. </blockquote>Agree to some of it. On the other hand you could see a deflation on stuff which was only player made and had no competition from drops. For example the price of strong boxes dropped extremly, because people could mass produce them. To stick with strong boxes there has been 2 deflations allready. The first one when they changed it so that empty boxes could be placed inside other boxes and the second one when they removed subs. The new change could make that a botting carpenter could self supply the demand for strong boxes for a whole server if he has so many selling slots. </blockquote>For the first devaluation, nothing changed on my server so I can't comment on it(besides, I think that was still during online selling and all prices were weird then based on time-zone). The second, time invested in making them went down and the harvest volume of raws went up, reduced price in that scenario was almost a given but was replaced by the ability to make far more in the same volume of time as previous. Provisioners are much the same; no more hours of crafting just to make a long duration stack but that's been replaced by a low-cost, high-volume market. If anything for the time invested, provisioners are likely making more than they used to per unit of time invested. This change is not changing the speed of production nor the cost so none of the factors in previous changes are occurring. People underselling the market on purpose were doing well to stay fully stocked prior and this does nothing to them; if people can bot the supply after the change, they can and likely are doing it now. At the same time, those who were grind and dumping have a new incentive to do writs and keep product of the market. I could be wrong but, no factors that affect price save for the potential in listed volume(which will still have the same labor costs) and Grimwell put that one pretty well already. </blockquote>The difference is, before they had to restock every day, now with 10 times the selling space they can restock once a week. But we will see what happen. If we stay at the strong box example. Since they stay ingame and have not to be atuned, there is a fixed amount of boxes who are needed in the game. The higher the mass production the sooner all have enough boxes. And I dont know how many new players join the game each month. The harvest volume of raws went up, but you need also more raws then before. Therefore nothing gained from the higher harvest volume.

Jenarie

07-24-2007, 10:48 AM

I love the idea of alts being able to sell. Changing from 24 hours to a week seems extreme though. I'd rather see it go to 3 days or something and see what the impact is before going to a full week. I've always priced knowing that the stupidly low prices will fall off and my stuff will have a chance to sell. I almost always price to match the second lowest price. Now those items won't fall off in a few hours giving the higher priced items a chance to sell - I don't see how this can do anything but lower overall prices unless the items are at rock bottom already.

Rast

07-24-2007, 10:57 AM

I obviously can not say this often enough, you do NOT need more raws now than before sub combines were removed. It still takes approximately the same number of raws to create an item. The difference is, you do not have the cross raw usage we had before (I used gems and soft metals to make tempers to save my ores for my armor for example).This will have minimial impact on the market and is something I'm happy about to be honest. I'm sick of funneling stuff to a single toon to sell, sometimes having to use my wifes account to move stuff from toon to toon. I won't create 7x more stuff on the broker, hell, I don't even fill up 3 boxes as it is now (and I have the compacity for 5 right now on my main toon). I may create more armor for sale, if my armorer can stock it and control it. I will definately put arrows up on my woodworker, if he can stock it and control it. so in that regards, it very well may be a good thing.Hell, I may even put some weapons up, since I don't need to worry about how fast they sell.

Rijacki

07-24-2007, 11:10 AM

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote> If this goes to live, the economy on each server will definitely react and adjust - but then it will settle down. </blockquote> QFE. Everytime there's a major charge, be it a new expansion, a new tradeskill or a new goodie, the market fluxes. It takes a month or two for things to settle out. Thus far EQ2 hasn't had rampant inflation. </blockquote>Agree, there was no inflation, but we had a deflation on crafted stuff when they removed subs. If people can put even more stuff on the broker the chance for another deflation is high. </blockquote>While I'm taking a wait and see for the long term effect of the mass of volume soon to be available(recent convert to the harmless school myself), using Lu24 as any sort of gauge just doesn't work;entirely too much changed simultaneously for any meaningful inference . The process changed making, more crafters(or at least more alts of crafters); the speed at which volume could be made changed, adding more incentive to craft(for those so concerned with production); but perhaps most importantly, the value of the crafted items themselves was severely whacked relative to drops(especially t7 crafted). Crafted items aren't being changed this time and, as Grimwell hinted at, it will still take real time to make all that product. Those inclined to keep the market depressed are already doing it and everyone else isn't suddenly going to lower the value of their time in either creation or acquisition. When the dust settles- if it even rises- there will likely be a negligible shift in cost and merely a larger volume of goods-mostly looted. If anything, adventurers should be the wary ones because of the increased ability to leave drops that would otherwise be vendored on the broker(though transmuting has a good handle on that too). </blockquote>Agree to some of it. On the other hand you could see a deflation on stuff which was only player made and had no competition from drops. For example the price of strong boxes dropped extremly, because people could mass produce them. To stick with strong boxes there has been 2 deflations allready. The first one when they changed it so that empty boxes could be placed inside other boxes and the second one when they removed subs. The new change could make that a botting carpenter could self supply the demand for strong boxes for a whole server if he has so many selling slots. </blockquote>Strong boxes are a bad example since they can be used and resold. Other than the T7 boxes, as one levels up, he/she can sell, on the broker, the box he has been using and the price matters very little to him since he's already gotten the value of use from it. But... about botting. Yes, this could make botting more lucrative at least in the short term. Harvested components will still be a gate for most products.

UD_De

07-24-2007, 11:36 AM

Jalathan@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>I obviously can not say this often enough, you do NOT need more raws now than before sub combines were removed. It still takes approximately the same number of raws to create an item. </blockquote> You're hypothesis is not fully supported by the facts you state. While true it takes the same number of raws to create an item that does not mean you do not need more raws than before. If your goal is to gain exp and not simply to create an item you DEFINATELY need more raws than before. It used to take around 4-5 combines before having the materials to produce a final combine. Let's say that's 5% experience plus another 2% experience for the final combine. That means for each item you would in effect earn 7% of a level for each item made. Remove the subcombines and you are only earning 2% per item made. That's over 3x as many raws now needed to level than before.

Rast

07-24-2007, 11:50 AM

it was all hashed out before. you use no more raws per item now than you did with subcombines. You simply lost the flexibility of using 'off' raws instead of primary ones (like soft metals instead of ores in tempers).I don't have the exact math now as I do not have any of the old recipes still in my head, and I think the old thread where I actually demonstrated this was nuked in the conversion. But it uses about the same amount (give or take, some actually use less raws now, like chain armor) now than it did then. Will that hold up when it is all increased in t8, no, but for now it is true, you do not use a significantly different amount now than then.As for xp, it is irrelevant, the material uses per item is the key, not the amount of xp per item created, that is a different argument all together. And I agree, we do not get as much per 'item' now as we did then, but that is not the argument here, it is in raw usage per item, which is relatively unchanged.

Zaldor

07-24-2007, 12:35 PM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote>When any kind of change such as this goes into effect, the first question should always be, why? I can understand one change or the other, but why both? This reminds me of when they made coin weightless, but also made it so that it automatically changes for you. Why both? Changes to an economy should be done slowly. Also, do we all really believe that the Test server is a true reflection of what happens on the real servers? </blockquote> What both? Toons on the same account selling concurrently and the 7 day change? As for the coin changes, if it's weightless why not have it cash down automatically? Where's the harm? </blockquote>Yup, that would be the two changes we are discussing in this thread. I didn't say there was a harm in making two changes to coin at once, you just have to scratch your head and wonder what was said at that meeting. I'm not the only one that can't understand why they made both changes, every podcast except for the official SOE one (too busy talking about coffee probably) had the same question. But that's off the point and it was probably a bad example for this particular topic.I can imagine that if the tradeskilling had not been gutted from what it was at release they would refrain from making two drastic changes to the brokering system at one time like this.People can say all they want that the market will flux and then level out, which it may very well do that, however besides the change to where you no longer had to be logged in to sell, have they changed the broker system this radically at one time? I'm not sure we have a good parallel of another change to point to and say that this will have a similar effect.

UD_De

07-24-2007, 12:44 PM

Jalathan@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>As for xp, it is irrelevant, the material uses per item is the key, not the amount of xp per item created, that is a different argument all together. </blockquote> You could've saved me the post if you just stated that the first time. Your initial statement however was that you use no more raws than before. It could have meant any of the following: You use no more raws than before in creating a single item. You use no more raws than before in leveling one through 70. You use no more raws than before when washing your dog. Each of those statements has a different level of truthiness.

Thormiel

07-24-2007, 01:21 PM

<cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote> I'm not sure we have a good parallel of another change to point to and say that this will have a similar effect. </blockquote>Allowing offline selling as opposed to must have the toon logged in? I would imagine that change increased the amount of sellers a bit.

Zaldor

07-24-2007, 01:26 PM

<cite>Thormiel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote> I'm not sure we have a good parallel of another change to point to and say that this will have a similar effect. </blockquote>Allowing offline selling as opposed to must have the toon logged in? I would imagine that change increased the amount of sellers a bit. </blockquote>It probably did, but the need to log in once every 24 hours on that character limited the impact somewhat. Now, that is being taken away AND the amount of potential items up for sale is being increased. Hence, the question of why both changes at the same time?

Rijacki

07-24-2007, 01:32 PM

1. The change for all characters selling is something asked for by players since.. well.. nearly day 1 or at least since the time offline selling was brought into the game (in any incarnation). 2. The change for 7 days is actually a lot more accommodating to the casual player than to those who are heavy players. For the heavy players, it doesn't change anything. For the casual player who can only make it online a scant few hours a week (or for someone who needs to travel for business or pleasure), it allows them to participate in the buying/selling aspect of the game. 3. Not being required to log on the specific character that's selling is a boon to those who play multiple characters. They'll be able to fill their play time with actually playing rather than doing a round robin of logging characters on and off. 4. Actually the all characters selling also eliminates a lot of the round robin logging on and off and waiting for mail (that can take more than 30 minutes and isn't available at all for cross faction on PvP servers). 5. There will be no change to the number of harvest raws per combine from the current except for the recipes added in the last GUs which use the model the rest of the recipes will convert to. 6. The number of raws per level for the grinders will actually be reduced -if- they use writs. Part of this GU, along with the broker changes, is the addition of bonus tradeskill XP for writs. However, grinding for additional XP using writs will not produce an item to be sold on the broker. Thus, the competition from grind dumpers -should- be reduced. 7. When the rest of the recipes are converted to the pristine only for product (except the consumables), harvest raws will be returned with fuel cost making grinding using the 3rd bar of success best for harvest conservation while grinding (but wouldn't work with writs). Since that route also will not produce an item to put up for sale on the broker, it further limits the competition from grind dumpers. 8. Bots: We do people bot? Using a 3rd party app to make stuff is commonly done to increase levels. Botting for the grind should be restricted from getting the writ tradeskill XP bonus purely because the current writ system is not bot friendly. Once recipes are changed to the no product except pristine, it would be more expeditious for the botters to stop on the 3rd level of success since they'll be able to run longer. At that point, they won't get a product to dump (except for consumables). 9. The possible effect on the economy is not the primary factor in adding these improvements to gameplay. While I am of the opinion these will have more effect on adventurers, game changes are not made to protect or hinder crafters. The consideration is how this will make game play more accessible and even fun for the majority of the player base, not how will this effect the crafters' economy. 10. If you suspect someone is botting, /petition and list all the details why you think they should investigate the individual. Pricing below what you think is an 'appropriate' profit is not the only criteria in determining someone may be botting. 11. If you don't think current pricing is an appropriate profit, do something else.

FoxRiverRanger

07-24-2007, 01:33 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Strong boxes are a bad example since they can be used and resold. Other than the T7 boxes, as one levels up, he/she can sell, on the broker, the box he has been using and the price matters very little to him since he's already gotten the value of use from it. But... about botting. Yes, this could make botting more lucrative at least in the short term. Harvested components will still be a gate for most products. </blockquote>From my experience, the Chameleon Totems are a good item to use for predicting what to expect. Their desirability was unaffected by the change to no sub combine crafting, although the level at which they are made was raised. The next update saw the introduction of the sales displays and the potential for a crafter to increase his sales space by swapping out 32 slot rosewood strongboxes with 80 slot ebony jewelry boxes. The net result was the most active crafters filled the additional space with larger quantities of totems and the typical sale price dropped from 2 gold to 1.25 gold, a devaluation of 37.5% (on The Bazaar broker). Then the maximum potential listed volume was doubled, currently the changes to both the number of characters per account that list and the length of listing time has a much higher maximum potential increase. The economy will adapt to this change and restabalize, at a lower selling price for crafted goods.

Zaldor

07-24-2007, 01:44 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. The change for all characters selling is something asked for by players since.. well.. nearly day 1 or at least since the time offline selling was brought into the game (in any incarnation).No argument there. 2. The change for 7 days is actually a lot more accommodating to the casual player than to those who are heavy players. For the heavy players, it doesn't change anything. For the casual player who can only make it online a scant few hours a week (or for someone who needs to travel for business or pleasure), it allows them to participate in the buying/selling aspect of the game. Guess it can be a problem for some people to log into one character every 24 hours. 3. Not being required to log on the specific character that's selling is a boon to those who play multiple characters. They'll be able to fill their play time with actually playing rather than doing a round robin of logging characters on and off.True, these people are probably the same ones that had a problem logging into one before the change. 4. Actually the all characters selling also eliminates a lot of the round robin logging on and off and waiting for mail (that can take more than 30 minutes and isn't available at all for cross faction on PvP servers).Can see this for Freeport vs. Qeynos, shared bank slots seems to fix that for same factions though. 5. There will be no change to the number of harvest raws per combine from the current except for the recipes added in the last GUs which use the model the rest of the recipes will convert to. 6. The number of raws per level for the grinders will actually be reduced -if- they use writs. Part of this GU, along with the broker changes, is the addition of bonus tradeskill XP for writs. However, grinding for additional XP using writs will not produce an item to be sold on the broker. Thus, the competition from grind dumpers -should- be reduced. The one light in the tunnel is that there might be more raws available on the broker now. 7. When the rest of the recipes are converted to the pristine only for product (except the consumables), harvest raws will be returned with fuel cost making grinding using the 3rd bar of success best for harvest conservation while grinding (but wouldn't work with writs). Since that route also will not produce an item to put up for sale on the broker, it further limits the competition from grind dumpers. 8. Bots: We do people bot? Using a 3rd party app to make stuff is commonly done to increase levels. Botting for the grind should be restricted from getting the writ tradeskill XP bonus purely because the current writ system is not bot friendly. Once recipes are changed to the no product except pristine, it would be more expeditious for the botters to stop on the 3rd level of success since they'll be able to run longer. At that point, they won't get a product to dump (except for consumables). 9. The possible effect on the economy is not the primary factor in adding these improvements to gameplay. While I am of the opinion these will have more effect on adventurers, game changes are not made to protect or hinder crafters. The consideration is how this will make game play more accessible and even fun for the majority of the player base, not how will this effect the crafters' economy.You can bet if the economy has problems, the same people that can handle the system as it is now will not be having much fun tradeskilling anymore. 10. If you suspect someone is botting, /petition and list all the details why you think they should investigate the individual. Pricing below what you think is an 'appropriate' profit is not the only criteria in determining someone may be botting. Indeed. 11. If you don't think current pricing is an appropriate profit, do something else.Even if that gets in the way of my fun? </blockquote>

Valdaglerion

07-24-2007, 01:50 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>But... about botting. Yes, this could make botting more lucrative at least in the short term. Harvested components will still be a gate for most products. </blockquote>People you need to remember that botters know more about the economy than most people in this game. Flooding the market and driving the price down is in direct opposition to their goal which is to keep prices higher, thereby exerting less time/effort to make higher profits and resell the coin.It is far more lucrative for plat sellers, farmers and botters to buy up low priced items and destory them or save them for future sale. This keeps the number of a certain item type available, artificially creating a supply shortage or rather a perception of one.Let's stop with the chicken little - the sky is falling mentality and understand that when you have a certain number of players with a designated amount of time to create/find/market/sell items, more sales space doesnt give you more items to sell, period.Will more sales space help botters? Maybe for turnaround time but at the cost of profit. If you see a flood of items on the market you will see prices drop which isnt necesarily a bad thing now either. For crafted items - honestly, how much lower can they really get? Most are operating at marginal profit anyway with the exception of self-harvested rares for mastercrafted items.

Zaldor

07-24-2007, 01:58 PM

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>But... about botting. Yes, this could make botting more lucrative at least in the short term. Harvested components will still be a gate for most products. </blockquote>People you need to remember that botters know more about the economy than most people in this game. Flooding the market and driving the price down is in direct opposition to their goal which is to keep prices higher, thereby exerting less time/effort to make higher profits and resell the coin.It is far more lucrative for plat sellers, farmers and botters to buy up low priced items and destory them or save them for future sale. This keeps the number of a certain item type available, artificially creating a supply shortage or rather a perception of one.Let's stop with the chicken little - the sky is falling mentality and understand that when you have a certain number of players with a designated amount of time to create/find/market/sell items, more sales space doesnt give you more items to sell, period.Will more sales space help botters? Maybe for turnaround time but at the cost of profit. If you see a flood of items on the market you will see prices drop which isnt necesarily a bad thing now either. For crafted items - honestly, how much lower can they really get? Most are operating at marginal profit anyway with the exception of self-harvested rares for mastercrafted items.</blockquote>I sure hope you are right, but remember, not only are people getting more sales space but now they only have to log on once a week to have their items stay on the market. I again go back to my main point, why are they implementing both of these changes at the same time? Allowing all characters to sell is not as big of a deal as allowing items to stay on the market longer. That was what kept the thing refreshed and made you actually have to participate in the game in order to reap the benefits of it.I guess guild halls are right around the corner since people have been asking for them since release.

leiela

07-24-2007, 02:01 PM

The economy is gonig to change no-doubt about it, however the sky's not gonna fall in.. there will be a period of adjustment and things will settle. As one of the major tradeskillers / vendors on my server im really looking forward to the change, atm if i buy up 20 rares because they where going cheap i tend to only use 2-3 and save the rest because i dont have room for ... say 20 jasper earings on my broker.. now i will have room who cares if they stay there 6 months. If i see for example jasper earings selling for price im not happy with .. instead of pricing my above them and hoping the cheap ones sell quickly i can buy them all up and try and make a profit off them without worrying about where im gonna keep them while i wait for them to sell. My alts can finnally be indepentent something which is long over due.... yay ...

Rijacki

07-24-2007, 04:22 PM

Zaldor wrote: <blockquote>I guess guild halls are right around the corner since people have been asking for them since release. </blockquote> Any time Gallenite has mentioned guild halls he has said they're on the agenda, just not high in priority vs other stuff. The other thing he has said is that they'll be part of a standard GU and not an expansion so they'll be for everyone and not just those who pay for extra for an expansion. But aside from that, guild halls would actually only impact or be available to a very small portion of the player-base while -every- player has access to the broker. The scope of this change is to make the game more accessible to all players. Guild Halls would be an addition only for those in guilds of thus and so level.

Valdaglerion

07-24-2007, 04:35 PM

<cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote> I again go back to my main point, why are they implementing both of these changes at the same time? Allowing all characters to sell is not as big of a deal as allowing items to stay on the market longer. That was what kept the thing refreshed and made you actually have to participate in the game in order to reap the benefits of it.</blockquote></blockquote> It may have to do with threads that have been ongoing for months previously concerning the upkeep on the homes and teh current implementation that ties that upkeep directly to your ability to sell from your house on the broker, nothing more.if you pay upkeep for 7 days, the current implementation, you should be allowed to sell from your house on the broker for 7 days. If I only get the benefit of selling for 24 hours, I want to only be charged upkeep for the time my items are on the broker. Make sense?Same with character toons. It has been discussed for a while now that each toon is its own personality and should be financiallly independent. We now have that. Why should my provisioner have to mule items to the house of my primary toon I play with daily to sell those items just because the provisioner only needs to come online once a week or so.....Both changes are overdue in my opinion.

Valdaglerion

07-24-2007, 04:40 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Zaldor wrote: <blockquote>I guess guild halls are right around the corner since people have been asking for them since release. </blockquote> Any time Gallenite has mentioned guild halls he has said they're on the agenda, just not high in priority vs other stuff. The other thing he has said is that they'll be part of a standard GU and not an expansion so they'll be for everyone and not just those who pay for extra for an expansion. But aside from that, guild halls would actually only impact or be available to a very small portion of the player-base while -every- player has access to the broker. The scope of this change is to make the game more accessible to all players. Guild Halls would be an addition only for those in guilds of thus and so level. </blockquote> What amazes me is the fact Guild Housing is on the original packaging for the game since release and yet we dont have it. It has been asked for time and time and time again and still its not a priority for SOE to deliver on it.As for your comment about it not affecting the majority of players - I can count on one hand the number of non-guilded players I come across in game. Truly, how many people are not in a guild (any guild, small, big, casual, raiding), most people are in a guild of some kind. Even if its a personal guild, those players are still in a guild.

FoxRiverRanger

07-24-2007, 05:47 PM

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote>if you pay upkeep for 7 days, the current implementation, you should be allowed to sell from your house on the broker for 7 days. If I only get the benefit of selling for 24 hours, I want to only be charged upkeep for the time my items are on the broker. Make sense?</blockquote>You need not pay rent to be listed on the broker. Your sales displays need only be placed in a rent paid location to allow commission free sales. However, that location can be anywhere that you have trustee access. Consolidate sales displays from multiple alts into your main's home, and you only need pay rent on that house to allow all the alts use of their sales containers: without paying their rent. A practice that will probably see more use, if all alts can sell concurrently; unless the developers plan on reviewing this feature in light of proposed changes.

hun_gover

07-24-2007, 06:10 PM

The real impact of this is that the players like me, who have mulitple crafters will be able to craft items from all tiers and ensure every item is kept on sale. We will dominate multiple markets much more, whereas before we we're forced to compromise what we sold.We will make more money in all likelihood.The new players, or those trying to get into the crafting market will find it much harder, and will be put off from getting involved.Nice job SoE, kinda hoped people would stay away from crafting, leave it to Dom, seems not <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Its not like there was any problem with selling from 6x60 minimum boxes, not that affected the game, this change is gonna make it less playable for some though.

Zaldor

07-24-2007, 09:30 PM

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote> I again go back to my main point, why are they implementing both of these changes at the same time? Allowing all characters to sell is not as big of a deal as allowing items to stay on the market longer. That was what kept the thing refreshed and made you actually have to participate in the game in order to reap the benefits of it.</blockquote></blockquote> It may have to do with threads that have been ongoing for months previously concerning the upkeep on the homes and teh current implementation that ties that upkeep directly to your ability to sell from your house on the broker, nothing more.if you pay upkeep for 7 days, the current implementation, you should be allowed to sell from your house on the broker for 7 days. If I only get the benefit of selling for 24 hours, I want to only be charged upkeep for the time my items are on the broker. Make sense?Same with character toons. It has been discussed for a while now that each toon is its own personality and should be financiallly independent. We now have that. Why should my provisioner have to mule items to the house of my primary toon I play with daily to sell those items just because the provisioner only needs to come online once a week or so.....Both changes are overdue in my opinion.</blockquote>You don't have to pay upkeep to sell on the broker. If both changes are so overdue, what harm would it be to spread them out over two GUs? After almost three years, what would another month be for the second change. I have no problem with either change really, just don't think it is good practice to make both of these at the same time. People like to say "adapt to the changes", well, some of us have done quite well adapting to the way things as they are now, without needing the mechanics of the game changed for us to thrive.

Zaldor

07-24-2007, 09:45 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Zaldor wrote: <blockquote>I guess guild halls are right around the corner since people have been asking for them since release. </blockquote> Any time Gallenite has mentioned guild halls he has said they're on the agenda, just not high in priority vs other stuff. The other thing he has said is that they'll be part of a standard GU and not an expansion so they'll be for everyone and not just those who pay for extra for an expansion. But aside from that, guild halls would actually only impact or be available to a very small portion of the player-base while -every- player has access to the broker. The scope of this change is to make the game more accessible to all players. Guild Halls would be an addition only for those in guilds of thus and so level. </blockquote>High end raid zones are only available to people that are of thus and so level. My comment was meant to reference that we have been waiting for those for much longer than this change. What hindrance is there for players to access the broker as of GU36? Is there some misunderstanding on some players part as to the mechanics of the game? Apparently from some posts in this thread, there is. Maybe that's the problem. If you don't have time to log a character in every 24 hours, then maybe you aren't really playing the game at the same level of someone that is. This game rewards players (generally) for the amount of time spent in game, adventuring and tradeskilling and what-not. Maybe these changes will signal a shift away from that. But hey, its what the people want and the people will get what they want. Maybe someday they will form this game into the game they've been craving for over two and a half years.

Calthine

07-25-2007, 12:49 AM

<cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote> If both changes are so overdue, what harm would it be to spread them out over two GUs? After almost three years, what would another month be for the second change. </blockquote> I still don't get why you think they shouldn't go in at the same time. What's the harm?

Zaldor

07-25-2007, 01:09 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote> If both changes are so overdue, what harm would it be to spread them out over two GUs? After almost three years, what would another month be for the second change. </blockquote> I still don't get why you think they shouldn't go in at the same time. What's the harm? </blockquote>That is precisely why they shouldn't, we do not fully understand what harm these changes can cause. They are proposing two major changes in the economic structure of the game. This should be done as conservatively as possible. There is no harm in spreading them out over two GUs, is there? Is the current state of the game so broken that one of these changes cannot wait until the next GU so that we can see what one will do to the economy? I know some people don't seem to care what happens to the game after a GU, but some of us do. Maybe I need some rose colored glasses, or some blinders....

Calthine

07-25-2007, 01:46 AM

Here ya go: <img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/calthine/Optimism.jpg" border="0">

Meio

07-25-2007, 02:23 AM

The 'problem' is they focus too much to the needs of adventurers. -they reduced the time it takes to make tradeskill stuff. -they put in tradeskill rewards you only can get when you are a high level adventurer -tradeskill drops and stations in adventure areas With the newest change one can craft maybe once per week for a whole week and put all up. No longer the need for every day crafting/login. I'm not sure if crafters should be happy with the route crafting is going.

Calthine

07-25-2007, 04:07 AM

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote> With the newest change one can craft maybe once per week for a whole week and put all up. No longer the need for every day crafting/login. </blockquote> Not this crafter.

Off

07-25-2007, 04:47 AM

I still don't understand what the fuss is all about as far as implementing two changes at once. It's not the first time it's happened, it won't be the last, and you know what? If there are some major setbacks from any change they usually are remedied. I wish people would stop looking at the glass half empty and starting viewing it as half full. Give things a chance to work before you actually judge on it that it won't, no matter what. Ever hear the saying, "don't knock it 'till you rock it"? This is a perfect example of that phrase. You just might like (and appreciate) what the changes are after all. If we don't like the changes after we've given them a chance, we can always voice our views (respectfully) to the devs. I have great faith they will make any needed adjustments.

Rijacki

07-25-2007, 11:02 AM

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The 'problem' is they focus too much to the needs of adventurers. -they reduced the time it takes to make tradeskill stuff. -they put in tradeskill rewards you only can get when you are a high level adventurer -tradeskill drops and stations in adventure areas With the newest change one can craft maybe once per week for a whole week and put all up. No longer the need for every day crafting/login. I'm not sure if crafters should be happy with the route crafting is going. </blockquote>And that helps the casual player all that much more. Not just the adventurer who does some crafting, but the player who can only log on a few hours a week or even only once a week for a few hours. It's not something targetted to destroy crafters or even to 'dumb down' crafting. These are changes to improve game play for -everyone- and especially the casual player who can't log on as often (and it's also helpful for the heavy players who have to go out of town for a short bit without access to a computer with the game installed). The sky is not falling. They aren't out to get you (us, whatever).

Valdaglerion

07-25-2007, 11:41 AM

<cite>FoxRiverRanger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote>if you pay upkeep for 7 days, the current implementation, you should be allowed to sell from your house on the broker for 7 days. If I only get the benefit of selling for 24 hours, I want to only be charged upkeep for the time my items are on the broker. Make sense?</blockquote>You need not pay rent to be listed on the broker. Your sales displays need only be placed in a rent paid location to allow commission free sales. However, that location can be anywhere that you have trustee access. Consolidate sales displays from multiple alts into your main's home, and you only need pay rent on that house to allow all the alts use of their sales containers: without paying their rent. A practice that will probably see more use, if all alts can sell concurrently; unless the developers plan on reviewing this feature in light of proposed changes.</blockquote>So basically what you are saying is that "yes, someone, somewhere in the location in which the sales displays are placed must be paying rent for a 7 day period in order to be listed on the broker without a fee and allow selling from that location."Thank you so much for confirming the posting to which you implied was incorrect.../shrugI will try to be more explicit in the future... /rolls eyes

Rijacki

07-25-2007, 12:12 PM

You can't buy from the broker without a fee. You can only buy directly from a sales box without a fee. That box needs to be placed in a location with the rent currently paid, but the location granting the benefit of the box does not need to be paid. I would not be surprised if that starts to be more of an issue (one hopefully to be corrected) after the broker changes. Someone who now has a 2 Bayle Court house with 6 broker slots could get 2 SQeynos innrooms with 3 slots each, divide the broker boxes between those 2 characters, and only pay continuing rent on one (where the boxes will be placed), and still have the same number of active sales boxes directly accessible (to eliminate broker fees for buyers) at a fraction of the cost.

Hatr

07-25-2007, 12:16 PM

Rijacki wrote: <blockquote>And that helps the casual player all that much more. Not just the adventurer who does some crafting, but the player who can only log on a few hours a week or even only once a week for a few hours. It's not something targetted to destroy crafters or even to 'dumb down' crafting. These are changes to improve game play for -everyone- and especially the casual player who can't log on as often (and it's also helpful for the heavy players who have to go out of town for a short bit without access to a computer with the game installed). The sky is not falling. They aren't out to get you (us, whatever). </blockquote> I have a fairly successful broker-based armor smithing business. I religiously log on every day to insure my broker is up and available, and that my inventory levels are adequately replenished. I am able to do such business because I have the dedication and commitment to put more into the game than other would-be armor salesmen. After these changes anyone that logs on once a week will be able to compete with me. Quite simply, I put more effort in than they do, and get a very similar result - how is this fair?

Zard

07-25-2007, 12:23 PM

For the cost-conscious but fashion-unconscious players (like me!) I expect to see people fill out all seven character slots -- even if they only actively play one -- just to increase the number of slots to sell from. 14 slots for 35sp a week is great deal and should be sufficient for even the most productive non-bot crafters.

Faelian

07-25-2007, 01:40 PM

This is just my ever-clueless perspective, but it sure seems like a lot of this is being over-analyzed. I'm just thrilled that my son and I can sell things on both our characters at the same time!

Valdaglerion

07-25-2007, 02:10 PM

Faelian@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>This is just my ever-clueless perspective, but it sure seems like a lot of this is being over-analyzed. I'm just thrilled that my son and I can sell things on both our characters at the same time! </blockquote> The exact same thing was said in my house recently when we were discussing the changes. We have a single account which currently 2 people in the house share and it has always been a point of contention as to who logged in last because they are the only ones selling at that time. This solves that issue. Thanks SOE!And for those that feel getting 14 slots for 35s a week is a good deal you have obviously never tried to fill/market and manage that number of slots but hey good luck with it, I wish you the best. If you lower prices for me you will be my hero, right up there with WalMart...LOLThe sky is NOT falling, I repeat, the sky is NOT falling...LOL

Calthine

07-25-2007, 02:56 PM

There are NOT Vogons over Norrahth... <img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a230/calthine/felwitheop6.jpg" border="0">

Rijacki

07-25-2007, 03:00 PM

Hatred@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Rijacki wrote: <blockquote>And that helps the casual player all that much more. Not just the adventurer who does some crafting, but the player who can only log on a few hours a week or even only once a week for a few hours. It's not something targetted to destroy crafters or even to 'dumb down' crafting. These are changes to improve game play for -everyone- and especially the casual player who can't log on as often (and it's also helpful for the heavy players who have to go out of town for a short bit without access to a computer with the game installed). The sky is not falling. They aren't out to get you (us, whatever). </blockquote> I have a fairly successful broker-based armor smithing business. I religiously log on every day to insure my broker is up and available, and that my inventory levels are adequately replenished. I am able to do such business because I have the dedication and commitment to put more into the game than other would-be armor salesmen. After these changes anyone that logs on once a week will be able to compete with me. Quite simply, I put more effort in than they do, and get a very similar result - how is this fair? </blockquote>If you put more effort into it now than they do now and neither of you change the amount of effort you put into it, they won't have more product to sell than you do and will only get rewards for the effort they put in as will you. They won't be selling more product than they currently do, and, presumably, neither would you. Arguably, the weekends is when there are the most players online and the majority of the casual players are able to log on. Those who only play on weekends have their stuff fall off the broker by Tuesday. Currently, the highest prices are on the weekends (when there are more people putting stuff on the broker as well as more people buying) with low prices in the middle of the week (when all the casual weekend players don't have items on the broker, nor are they around to buy them). So... right now when there are the most broker sellers, the prices are highest and they're the lowest when there are fewer sellers. That is rather opposite of the perspective the "sky is falling" crowd wants to believe.

Hatr

07-25-2007, 03:26 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you put more effort into it now than they do now and neither of you change the amount of effort you put into it, they won't have more product to sell than you do and will only get rewards for the effort they put in as will you. They won't be selling more product than they currently do, and, presumably, neither would you. Arguably, the weekends is when there are the most players online and the majority of the casual players are able to log on. Those who only play on weekends have their stuff fall off the broker by Tuesday. Currently, the highest prices are on the weekends (when there are more people putting stuff on the broker as well as more people buying) with low prices in the middle of the week (when all the casual weekend players don't have items on the broker, nor are they around to buy them). So... right now when there are the most broker sellers, the prices are highest and they're the lowest when there are fewer sellers. That is rather opposite of the perspective the "sky is falling" crowd wants to believe. </blockquote>My concern is they could easily sell more products. Let's say I want to get into the armor selling business and I can only log on 8hrs over the weekend total. I can now craft 2-3 of every single piece of MC armor in the game on Saturday, toss it on the broker for a reasonable price, and walk away. When I log on next week, as long as my price was realistic, I would have likely sold a decent amount and can just restock for the next week. That, in a nutshell, is my sincerest concern. This person is selling items with the same level of availability as I am today, when they only have to make a time/effort contribution to their store once, whereas I am logging on 7 times a week currently to provide the same service. Post update the only advantage I would have would be if I sold out of an item early I could restock it, which is easily mitigated by stocking 2-3 of higher demand items. I'm not saying this will happen, simply that it could. There is no reason someone that can only log on 8hrs a week total should be rewarded in the same manner as someone that logs on 72hrs a week total. I understand you need to cater to a multitude of player styles, however you should always reward linearly for time invested (less time - less reward; More time - more reward)

leiela

07-25-2007, 03:36 PM

Well today ive bit the bullet... ive sat down and looked for the first time i might add.. at my crafters as inderviduals. I've looked at what rooms they had ( would you belive 8 of my 10 crafters didn't even have an inn room) bought them all a room. reasonable for the amount of "sales" i expect them to do.... for most this involves a 2 room starter inn. And bought them all the sales crates they will need to sell the wares of their craft. I concider myself a dedicated and addicted crafter with 2 accounts .. i used to have 2 - 6slot rooms.... but even with 12 spaces available to me .. my woodworker and Weaponsmith used to fight over just one weapon rack they shared... which ment i had to keep in stock only the most profitable items.Now my weaponsmith has two weapon racks all too herself granted they are only cheap and chearful oak ones i bought off the broker for 6g each ( yes buying was cheaper than making) .. but that gives her 112 slots, instead of her old .. fought for 40 slots. This means i can expand the varity of wares i sell .. This example is the same across all my crafters my woodworker (totems), Tailor (hex doxs ), Jewellar all used to share 2 jewellary boxes .. hence till now maximising profit and stock turnover has been always been the key ... now they can all have as many boxes as they need .. my jewellar is also my vendor so is already in a 6 slot house .. so she'll have 4 jewellary boxes all to herself.. i may never fill them but hey they will be there. Varity will be the reward, ive often heard people complain about getting "lowbie" and "newbie" gear at a reasonable price... now im not gonig to be in any rush to sell..... i might even expand into this area.

Rijacki

07-25-2007, 03:53 PM

Hatred@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you put more effort into it now than they do now and neither of you change the amount of effort you put into it, they won't have more product to sell than you do and will only get rewards for the effort they put in as will you. They won't be selling more product than they currently do, and, presumably, neither would you. Arguably, the weekends is when there are the most players online and the majority of the casual players are able to log on. Those who only play on weekends have their stuff fall off the broker by Tuesday. Currently, the highest prices are on the weekends (when there are more people putting stuff on the broker as well as more people buying) with low prices in the middle of the week (when all the casual weekend players don't have items on the broker, nor are they around to buy them). So... right now when there are the most broker sellers, the prices are highest and they're the lowest when there are fewer sellers. That is rather opposite of the perspective the "sky is falling" crowd wants to believe. </blockquote>My concern is they could easily sell more products. Let's say I want to get into the armor selling business and I can only log on 8hrs over the weekend total. I can now craft 2-3 of every single piece of MC armor in the game on Saturday, toss it on the broker for a reasonable price, and walk away. When I log on next week, as long as my price was realistic, I would have likely sold a decent amount and can just restock for the next week. That, in a nutshell, is my sincerest concern. This person is selling items with the same level of availability as I am today, when they only have to make a time/effort contribution to their store once, whereas I am logging on 7 times a week currently to provide the same service. Post update the only advantage I would have would be if I sold out of an item early I could restock it, which is easily mitigated by stocking 2-3 of higher demand items. I'm not saying this will happen, simply that it could. There is no reason someone that can only log on 8hrs a week total should be rewarded in the same manner as someone that logs on 72hrs a week total. I understand you need to cater to a multitude of player styles, however you should always reward linearly for time invested (less time - less reward; More time - more reward) </blockquote>If your putting more effort in and making more items and both of you are pricing reasonably and selling the products you make, you will still sell more. The other person can't sell what they don't make or put up for sale.

Hatr

07-25-2007, 04:07 PM

I guess that's what I'm saying... they make the same amount of product I do, all in one day and place it up on the broker. They then walk away for 7 days and still sell as much as I do, even though I log on every day. We both put in as much effort into production, but I put in more effort managing my broker (by logging in daily). Why do they get the same reward? I understand logging in isn't exactly "work", however taking 1 more thing away from the person that plays daily and handing it to the person that logs in weekly seems hardly fair.

Valdaglerion

07-25-2007, 04:47 PM

Hatred@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>I guess that's what I'm saying... they make the same amount of product I do, all in one day and place it up on the broker. They then walk away for 7 days and still sell as much as I do, even though I log on every day. We both put in as much effort into production, but I put in more effort managing my broker (by logging in daily). Why do they get the same reward? I understand logging in isn't exactly "work", however taking 1 more thing away from the person that plays daily and handing it to the person that logs in weekly seems hardly fair.</blockquote> Logging in daily is not managing your broker. Its a useless time sink. People pay the upkeep on their houses for 7 days at time so people can buy from their house/display (where ever it may be located, someone is paying the 7 day upkeep for it). If in that scenario, why are they being charged for something they are only getting to use for 24 hours?on the topic of broker management - if they log in on saturday and dont log in again until next saturday chances are they arent going to sell anymore than you do anyway if you are truly managing your broker sales daily. Prices will still continue to be less during the week than they are on the weekend meaning many of those items from the week before which have not been re-priced will still be there.The more likely scenario is that with more sales space you will craft less often if you regulate your sales to be at specific prices and dont undercut constantly. I do this now with my alts anyway. The other technique with alts was simple -Buy a 6 slot house in SQ, make every alt a trustee and have them place displays in your house. With correct traffic you can generate sales on those crates anyway even though the items are not listed. To further the technique you place stacks in varying crates anyway instead of large stacks in a single crate. It takes more time but in the end has proven profitable. With this new method it wont be any more profitable, it will simply take less time to manage. That time can be used to either in game to do more questing and worth while ventures, harvest to lower the price of making crafted goods, etc.Its not a matter of long term economy changes. The people using the broker to these extents now have already devised work arounds for the current implementation. That is another reason to believe the sky is not falling.Yes, we are going to see influxes in the number of items on the broker at any given time due to initial offerings from multiple players on same accounts and from some people that have had items stored which do not sell quickly.What we are more than likely not going to see is huge increases in sales just because more items are being offered. If 1 widget doesnt sell, 2 widgets wont sell any faster.There is still a finite number of players and demand for certain items. /rant off - moving on, this is getting utterly redundant.

DeathRider69

07-25-2007, 06:09 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Auric@Oasis wrote: I have already started buying and reselling sales displays on The Bazaar server. Either they resale for a good profit, if not I will simply give them to my 9 other alts on my main account and the 6 other alts on my secondary one. Thats a total of 60 new display cases needed by my alts.</blockquote> Buy mine! I have had some up for a while and I am still the only one selling them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Valdaglerion

07-25-2007, 06:20 PM

<cite>DeathRider69 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Auric@Oasis wrote: I have already started buying and reselling sales displays on The Bazaar server. Either they resale for a good profit, if not I will simply give them to my 9 other alts on my main account and the 6 other alts on my secondary one. Thats a total of 60 new display cases needed by my alts.</blockquote> Buy mine! I have had some up for a while and I am still the only one selling them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> LIES! I sell them there too...dont believe the propoganda...LOLI am sure it will be a good week to sell displays; boxes shouldnt change much. I think the initial page listings will go up. I benchmarked it last night so curious to see how it changes this next week. More interesting though will be how the number of sales and prices fluctuate. I anticipate an initial drop in pricing to last a couple of weeks to burn off stored excess currently. After that it will be up to the players to determine how much effort they are willing to put in to keep the stocked merchandise levels that high or let the quantity drop and prices raise. I also expect the plat sellers to acquire much of the goods on the brokers over the next few weeks and stock pile them as prices drop to re-sell in the subsequent weeks and purchase large quanities or very low priced goods for destruction to balance the market. Guess we will just have to wait and see...

dartie

07-25-2007, 06:37 PM

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DeathRider69 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Auric@Oasis wrote: I have already started buying and reselling sales displays on The Bazaar server. Either they resale for a good profit, if not I will simply give them to my 9 other alts on my main account and the 6 other alts on my secondary one. Thats a total of 60 new display cases needed by my alts.</blockquote> Buy mine! I have had some up for a while and I am still the only one selling them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> LIES! I sell them there too...dont believe the propoganda...LOLI am sure it will be a good week to sell displays; boxes shouldnt change much. I think the initial page listings will go up. I benchmarked it last night so curious to see how it changes this next week. More interesting though will be how the number of sales and prices fluctuate. I anticipate an initial drop in pricing to last a couple of weeks to burn off stored excess currently. After that it will be up to the players to determine how much effort they are willing to put in to keep the stocked merchandise levels that high or let the quantity drop and prices raise. I also expect the plat sellers to acquire much of the goods on the brokers over the next few weeks and stock pile them as prices drop to re-sell in the subsequent weeks and purchase large quanities or very low priced goods for destruction to balance the market. Guess we will just have to wait and see...</blockquote>I guess I need some clarification on timing here. I've been told to expect to see GU37 near the end of the month. My understanding was that the changes to the broker system would hit the TEST server only at the end of July. I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I honestly have no idea how any of this works, but my assumption was that stuff hits test and gets played around with for an indefinite period before hitting the regular servers. Which (if any) of the following assumptions should I stick with?1) GU37 will see changes such as XP for crafting writs on regular servers, but not multiple characters selling from one account.2) People who play on test will soon be able to sell from multiple characters on the same account.3) The earliest that people on regular servers could expect to see this change would be at the end of August.4) There might be bugs/tweaks in this new feature that will stall its arrival on regular servers for 2 or more months.If people are already buying sales displays in anticipation of this new wrinkle, I suspect that some of my assumptions are FLAT WRONG.

Shadostalker

07-25-2007, 06:41 PM

Thanks for the information

Rijacki

07-25-2007, 07:03 PM

<cite>dartie wrote:</cite><blockquote>I guess I need some clarification on timing here. I've been told to expect to see GU37 near the end of the month. My understanding was that the changes to the broker system would hit the TEST server only at the end of July. I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I honestly have no idea how any of this works, but my assumption was that stuff hits test and gets played around with for an indefinite period before hitting the regular servers. Which (if any) of the following assumptions should I stick with?1) GU37 will see changes such as XP for crafting writs on regular servers, but not multiple characters selling from one account.2) People who play on test will soon be able to sell from multiple characters on the same account.3) The earliest that people on regular servers could expect to see this change would be at the end of August.4) There might be bugs/tweaks in this new feature that will stall its arrival on regular servers for 2 or more months.If people are already buying sales displays in anticipation of this new wrinkle, I suspect that some of my assumptions are FLAT WRONG.</blockquote> The facts available: 1. The first part of the upcoming GU went to Test at the end of last week. 2. You can find the patch notes for the Test updates <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=746" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">here</a>: (<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=746" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/....m?forum_id=746</a>). 3. According to the Test patch notes from Friday, you can sell from all characters on an account, on Test. 4. Most updates stay on Test for a few weeks before going to Live. 5. Some updates have few changes before going to Live. 6. Some things in the update notes for Test don't go Live in the same update to Live. 7. Some things in the update notes for Test go through a few update cycles (and tweaks) before they go Live. 8. Some things in the update notes for Test never go Live (and are even removed from Test). 9. Some updates go in parts to Test. The most I've seen was 4 parts before the whole she-bang went to Live (with time to test in between each increment). 10. There isn't an official date given yet (that I know of) for when -this- update, or any future ones, will be going to Live. 11. Some Game Updates are smaller than others. 12. Most Game Updates have features affecting various parts of the game. 13. SOME Game Updates add new -free- features including new zones, new races (well, just once), new quests, new items, all around new content.

leiela

07-25-2007, 07:09 PM

Quoted from the EQ2 players front page!! Granted i dunno when GU37 is going live but when it does it looks likes its going in. <hr />Broker ConveniencesGame Update 37 will mark the end of the days where you have to shuffle items to your 'selling' character to have them up on the broker! All characters on your account will be able to list items for sale at the same time on the broker. Those items will remain listed provided that one of your characters logs into the game at least once every seven days. <hr />

Valdaglerion

07-25-2007, 07:15 PM

My GUESS although completely unfounded with any proof would be that GU37 will go in next Tuesday or Wednesday. This morning before work however, I got the message the servers were coming down for an update. Not sure what went in today - I was hoping it was GU37 but probably too soon since it only hit test last week.

Rijacki

07-25-2007, 07:36 PM

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote>My GUESS although completely unfounded with any proof would be that GU37 will go in next Tuesday or Wednesday. This morning before work however, I got the message the servers were coming down for an update. Not sure what went in today - I was hoping it was GU37 but probably too soon since it only hit test last week.</blockquote>Today they were doing some significant work server and client side on the spam filter according to the announcements I read yesterday. My GUESS is that GU37 -might- go Live next Tues or Wednesday or another part of it will be sent to Test at that time. I think there were still some tradeskill things that hadn't been sent to Test yet. Fan Faire starts on Thursday next week. Many of the devs will be at Fan Faire. Having the devs gone when you put an update live isn't the best idea since no one would be available if there is an issue (something always crops up between testing and live).

Calthine

07-25-2007, 07:37 PM

I thought today was GU 37, but I don't see the notes in the forums or on the launchpad. QA must have held it up.

Zard

07-25-2007, 07:45 PM

I thought I remember reading that they wanted to finish testing (and release?) LU37 before the Fan Faire so the developers could relax and would not have to worry about it while the faire was going on. The Fan Faire is this weekend. . .

Rijacki

07-25-2007, 08:01 PM

Auric@Oasis wrote: <blockquote>I thought I remember reading that they wanted to finish testing (and release?) LU37 before the Fan Faire so the developers could relax and would not have to worry about it while the faire was going on. The Fan Faire is this weekend. . .</blockquote>Fan Faire is next weekend. ComicCon is this weekend. My plane tickets and hotel room and Fan Faire registration all say next week. Fan Faire is 2 August to 5 August (and I'll miss the 2 part of it *sniffle*)

Valdaglerion

07-25-2007, 08:36 PM

Ah, yes. I just checked the notes from yesterday from Grimwell and today was spam filtering updates it seems. I completely forgot about Fan Faire as I am not going this year. With the con this weekend and SOE doing the block party thing and devs out next week it makes for a good question as to whether or not GU37 will go in before Fan Faire...guess only time will tell....

Zaldor

07-25-2007, 09:46 PM

<cite>Offem wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still don't understand what the fuss is all about as far as implementing two changes at once. It's not the first time it's happened, it won't be the last, and you know what? If there are some major setbacks from any change they usually are remedied. I wish people would stop looking at the glass half empty and starting viewing it as half full. Give things a chance to work before you actually judge on it that it won't, no matter what. Ever hear the saying, "don't knock it 'till you rock it"? This is a perfect example of that phrase. You just might like (and appreciate) what the changes are after all. If we don't like the changes after we've given them a chance, we can always voice our views (respectfully) to the devs. I have great faith they will make any needed adjustments. </blockquote>Two words...SWG:NGE Also, what's all the fuss to suddenly rush all this into the game at once. I played the game just last night, seemed to be working fine to me.

Zaldor

07-25-2007, 09:47 PM

In the SOE official podcast #20 they said that GU37 should be released before Fan Faire.

Lilj

07-25-2007, 10:02 PM

<cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Offem wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still don't understand what the fuss is all about as far as implementing two changes at once. It's not the first time it's happened, it won't be the last, and you know what? If there are some major setbacks from any change they usually are remedied. I wish people would stop looking at the glass half empty and starting viewing it as half full. Give things a chance to work before you actually judge on it that it won't, no matter what. Ever hear the saying, "don't knock it 'till you rock it"? This is a perfect example of that phrase. You just might like (and appreciate) what the changes are after all. If we don't like the changes after we've given them a chance, we can always voice our views (respectfully) to the devs. I have great faith they will make any needed adjustments. </blockquote>Two words...SWG:NGE Also, what's all the fuss to suddenly rush all this into the game at once. I played the game just last night, seemed to be working fine to me. </blockquote>Some of you old SWG guys really need to let go one day, it seems to me you are clinging to that NGE. The people behind it know it wasn't a good move and they have learned from it (I can find the quote if you need it). I know this is hard to believe, but devs are humans *gasp*, they make mistakes like other humans *gasp* and they learn from these mistakes like most other humans *gasp*. Just because they made a big mistake once, doesn't mean they plan to repeat it again and again, and especially not in another game with other devs (although some of the same people are involved). I sure hope people around you and in your own life can forgive you when you make mistakes and not cling to your old mistakes and expect you to make a new one every time you wriggle a toe. Just let it go. I can promise you, your life will be better for it, bitterness is not good for the soul. Honestly *warm smile*

Zaldor

07-25-2007, 10:20 PM

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Offem wrote:</cite><blockquote>I still don't understand what the fuss is all about as far as implementing two changes at once. It's not the first time it's happened, it won't be the last, and you know what? If there are some major setbacks from any change they usually are remedied. I wish people would stop looking at the glass half empty and starting viewing it as half full. Give things a chance to work before you actually judge on it that it won't, no matter what. Ever hear the saying, "don't knock it 'till you rock it"? This is a perfect example of that phrase. You just might like (and appreciate) what the changes are after all. If we don't like the changes after we've given them a chance, we can always voice our views (respectfully) to the devs. I have great faith they will make any needed adjustments. </blockquote>Two words...SWG:NGE Also, what's all the fuss to suddenly rush all this into the game at once. I played the game just last night, seemed to be working fine to me. </blockquote>Some of you old SWG guys really need to let go one day, it seems to me you are clinging to that NGE. The people behind it know it wasn't a good move and they have learned from it (I can find the quote if you need it). I know this is hard to believe, but devs are humans *gasp*, they make mistakes like other humans *gasp* and they learn from these mistakes like most other humans *gasp*. Just because they made a big mistake once, doesn't mean they plan to repeat it again and again, and especially not in another game with other devs (although some of the same people are involved). I sure hope people around you and in your own life can forgive you when you make mistakes and not cling to your old mistakes and expect you to make a new one every time you wriggle a toe. Just let it go. I can promise you, your life will be better for it, bitterness is not good for the soul. Honestly *warm smile* </blockquote><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I appreciate your good attitude. I am merely suggesting that waiting a GU could prevent another mistake. What is the harm in waiting one GU? Can anyone give me a good answer to that question? Why the rush after 36 other game updates to make both of these changes at once? What's another month? It appears that I agree with most of you here that SOE doesn't want to and probably will not make another mistake, I am merely pointing out a mechanism by which those ideas can happen. I think I've made my point that there is nothing wrong with waiting another GU and I know that the big guns of the tradeskill player community are on the other side of the table, so my arguments are pretty much like snowballs at this point. So to everyone, I say "Bah" (wish there was a paw waving emote).

Calthine

07-25-2007, 11:16 PM

Seriously, I do NOT get what the issue is, and why those changes should be held. They aren't rushing anything, they're just changing it. It's not a big deal. There's absolutely no reason to hold it. It's not like making all crafted goods no-value while they fixed the vendors, or adding secondary skills, or removing subcombines, or changing resists and mitigation on every item in the game, or any of many other large changes we've survived. And gee, you know what? We survived all those changes. There was no uncontrolled mudflation, there was no rioting in the streets, and halflings still like pie. The reported sightings of Vogons over Norrath are exaggerated. And comparing it to the NGE is, frankly, the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. This change is a convenience change, and in the overall scheme of things is about as game-changing as adding outdoor crafting stations and fuel vendors. We'll see some yo-yoing in the market for a month or so and it'll all settle out. Just like after every other market affecting change.

Zaldor

07-26-2007, 01:07 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seriously, I do NOT get what the issue is, and why those changes should be held. They aren't rushing anything, they're just changing it. It's not a big deal. There's absolutely no reason to hold it. It's not like making all crafted goods no-value while they fixed the vendors, or adding secondary skills, or removing subcombines, or changing resists and mitigation on every item in the game, or any of many other large changes we've survived. And gee, you know what? We survived all those changes. There was no uncontrolled mudflation, there was no rioting in the streets, and halflings still like pie. The reported sightings of Vogons over Norrath are exaggerated. And comparing it to the NGE is, frankly, the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. This change is a convenience change, and in the overall scheme of things is about as game-changing as adding outdoor crafting stations and fuel vendors. We'll see some yo-yoing in the market for a month or so and it'll all settle out. Just like after every other market affecting change. </blockquote>My dear, I was not comparing this change to the NGE, merely pointing out like so many other times in this thread to a previous poster things that maybe that had forgotten about to counteract their comments. I expect these kinds of retorts from people telling me that things I have seen happen in the game have NOT happened because they personally have never witnessed them. Again, "bah".

Calthine

07-26-2007, 01:13 AM

You were the one that brought up the NGE *shrug*. And I made that comment not because I haven't seen them (as you know), but because I have, and I still totally do not get your point of view. I really think you're overreacting.

Meio

07-26-2007, 01:35 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>... This change is a convenience change, and in the overall scheme of things is about as game-changing as adding outdoor crafting stations and fuel vendors. .... </blockquote>Welll, now that is comparing apples with seagulls <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Off

07-26-2007, 01:34 PM

Never played SWG and not sure what NGE is....so unless the point is only to point out past mistakes from other different games, I'm not sure I get the references, as I don't see any mistakes being made right now implementing these changes. /shrug.

Domino

07-26-2007, 01:37 PM

*hastily scribbles out the quest she was planning to let crafters attain jedi powers* <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Valdaglerion

07-26-2007, 01:58 PM

Just a thought on waiting.....In terms of all things business, time is money. Lets take gaming since that is what we are really talking about. There are many MMO's out there and more being added all the time. People have increasing options of where to spend their enterainment money and time. MMO's are now competing with other forms of entertainment not to mention other MMO's but I will try to stay on track here.Players are becoming increasingly vocal in their demands, wants, needs, desires for the things they want to see in "their" virtual worlds for them to continue spending money with the companies that create them. Players have also gotten increasingly saavy to the "keep them pacified and tell them its coming" tactics used by gaming companies. Many of these companies now spend a lot of time and marketing power trying to get players back. So the question comes back around to "why did they leave in the first place?" Answer - more than likely they found what they wanted somewhere else.All the online games are making it easier and easier to put your account on "hold" instead of quitting all together so you can come back. Why is that? Because they understand that if someone achieves level 70 in this game and decides - bah, nothing else here, I am going to play X now. The chance of getting them to come back and try out the new stuff they finally developed is almost nil if that returning player has to grind through their previous achievements again. Most simply wont do it.So, in essence there is a constant rush to market with new products (this permates many facets of business, not just games) but at the end of the day, its to keep your product as "fulfilling" to your subscribers as you can. it is easier to keep your subscribers when you are making changes and having to say, "oops, we need to tweak that a little more" than "We are working on it, it's coming....SOON"/cries at the loss of jedi crafting powers... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Calthine

07-26-2007, 02:04 PM

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>... This change is a convenience change, and in the overall scheme of things is about as game-changing as adding outdoor crafting stations and fuel vendors. .... </blockquote>Welll, now that is comparing apples with seagulls <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Not at all. The over all effect on the game will be negligible, once things settle down in a month or so. Outdoor crafting stations also had a negligible over all effect on the game. See? Apple, apple! Domino, would Jedi powers allow us to have fuel delivered to our rooms?

Nuhus

07-26-2007, 02:24 PM

<cite>Offem wrote:</cite><blockquote>Never played SWG and not sure what NGE is....so unless the point is only to point out past mistakes from other different games, I'm not sure I get the references, as I don't see any mistakes being made right now implementing these changes. /shrug. </blockquote>Here's a basic run down: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Galaxies#New_Game_Enhancements" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_W...me_Enhancements</a>

Lilj

07-26-2007, 02:42 PM

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>*hastily scribbles out the quest she was planning to let crafters attain jedi powers* <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>*giggle* thank you for the laugh, it was a good one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> --- Zaldor, I think I understand your concern. You simply don't like two major changes at the same time to one thing. It's normally a good way to think, don't change more than one thing at a time, so you know what change causes what effect. But....this scientific way of thinking doesn't always work well in the every-day world. It's not always possible to be that thorough. The world is too dynamic and can't always be stopped to wait for changes. You ask 'what is one more month'? I ask 'is one month enough to wait'? You assume one month is enough to see if the implemented change works and how it works. Personally I doubt one month is enough. When I have seen other changes in this game that in some way affects the economy it normally takes more than one month to really see the effect and to see the long-term effect (the short-term and long-term effect are not always the same). So perhaps we would have to only implement one change and then wait 5 months for the next. My point is that to truely see the effects of these changes we will have to monitor the economy for several months. If we then implement them one at a time we are looking at a rather large scope of time. Is the cost of waiting perhaps 10 months worth the cost of having customer complaints during those 10 months and a game that is less than what you know is possible? Mind you, it is customer complaints about changes we could have put it during the 10 months. I don't know if this is how a developer think, I don't know if this is how the powers that decide think, but I know I would take these things into account. I as you like to be thorough and take one change at a time, but I also know that I have to compromise sometimes. The way I work in the laboratory is not the same way I work in everyday life. It's two different worlds and mindsets. So while I understand your concern (and a little part of me is worried too), I still look forward to them.

Zaldor

07-26-2007, 05:32 PM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>You were the one that brought up the NGE *shrug*. And I made that comment not because I haven't seen them (as you know), but because I have, and I still totally do not get your point of view. I really think you're overreacting. </blockquote>I think you have made it abundantly clear that you do not understand. Thank you for your input.

Zaldor

07-26-2007, 05:35 PM

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote>*hastily scribbles out the quest she was planning to let crafters attain jedi powers* <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>*giggle* thank you for the laugh, it was a good one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> --- Zaldor, I think I understand your concern. You simply don't like two major changes at the same time to one thing. It's normally a good way to think, don't change more than one thing at a time, so you know what change causes what effect. But....this scientific way of thinking doesn't always work well in the every-day world. It's not always possible to be that thorough. The world is too dynamic and can't always be stopped to wait for changes. You ask 'what is one more month'? I ask 'is one month enough to wait'? You assume one month is enough to see if the implemented change works and how it works. Personally I doubt one month is enough. When I have seen other changes in this game that in some way affects the economy it normally takes more than one month to really see the effect and to see the long-term effect (the short-term and long-term effect are not always the same). So perhaps we would have to only implement one change and then wait 5 months for the next. My point is that to truely see the effects of these changes we will have to monitor the economy for several months. If we then implement them one at a time we are looking at a rather large scope of time. Is the cost of waiting perhaps 10 months worth the cost of having customer complaints during those 10 months and a game that is less than what you know is possible? Mind you, it is customer complaints about changes we could have put it during the 10 months. I don't know if this is how a developer think, I don't know if this is how the powers that decide think, but I know I would take these things into account. I as you like to be thorough and take one change at a time, but I also know that I have to compromise sometimes. The way I work in the laboratory is not the same way I work in everyday life. It's two different worlds and mindsets. So while I understand your concern (and a little part of me is worried too), I still look forward to them. </blockquote>Funny, I am going off of real world business practices. Maybe you meant, "doesn't always work well in a make believe world". Appreciate your input. I look forward to the day when it is finally opened up to all players and you don't have to log in at all to keep your items on the broker, that will be the day that EQ2 has finally broken that last "open to all casual players" barrier that it keeps bumping up against. Also, someone pointed out earlier they don't test anything with the economy.<img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Zaldor

07-26-2007, 05:37 PM

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a thought on waiting.....In terms of all things business, time is money. Lets take gaming since that is what we are really talking about. There are many MMO's out there and more being added all the time. People have increasing options of where to spend their enterainment money and time. MMO's are now competing with other forms of entertainment not to mention other MMO's but I will try to stay on track here.Players are becoming increasingly vocal in their demands, wants, needs, desires for the things they want to see in "their" virtual worlds for them to continue spending money with the companies that create them. Players have also gotten increasingly saavy to the "keep them pacified and tell them its coming" tactics used by gaming companies. Many of these companies now spend a lot of time and marketing power trying to get players back. So the question comes back around to "why did they leave in the first place?" Answer - more than likely they found what they wanted somewhere else.All the online games are making it easier and easier to put your account on "hold" instead of quitting all together so you can come back. Why is that? Because they understand that if someone achieves level 70 in this game and decides - bah, nothing else here, I am going to play X now. The chance of getting them to come back and try out the new stuff they finally developed is almost nil if that returning player has to grind through their previous achievements again. Most simply wont do it.So, in essence there is a constant rush to market with new products (this permates many facets of business, not just games) but at the end of the day, its to keep your product as "fulfilling" to your subscribers as you can. it is easier to keep your subscribers when you are making changes and having to say, "oops, we need to tweak that a little more" than "We are working on it, it's coming....SOON"/cries at the loss of jedi crafting powers... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>36 GUs I do believe you have a point though.

Rast

07-26-2007, 05:42 PM

Ok, I'm one to chicken little as much as anyone else and even I don't get the big deal here. These are not major earth shattering changes and to be honest, I welcome both of them (for once). it is annoying to have to log into a particular character ever single day to keep the store open, when I'm working on an alt, I want to work on that alt, not take time to log in a character that I've no real intention to play.As for the 7 day thing? There are times when I've not been able to log in for several days at a time, I think it is great that it is being extended so that people can go on vacation and know that they might actually have some gold in the game to show for it, or go out on a date with their gf/wife/sig.other and not feel pressured into logging into a game just to keep a store open for another day...As for the change to allow all toons to sell, this will not increase (drastically) the amount of stuff on the broker, a player will only get so much stuff to sell, it just makes it more convientant to the player and *gasp* might even allow the player to rp such a thing as independence without having to break it to dole out money from their main or gimping their main since they can't sell anything while the other is selling.This isn't a big deal. This isn't reducing us to a single combine, this isn't drastically changing itemization, this is a relatively MINOR market adjustment made to make the game more convienant to the players.

Zaldor

07-27-2007, 12:27 AM

Jalathan@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Ok, I'm one to chicken little as much as anyone else and even I don't get the big deal here. These are not major earth shattering changes and to be honest, I welcome both of them (for once). it is annoying to have to log into a particular character ever single day to keep the store open, when I'm working on an alt, I want to work on that alt, not take time to log in a character that I've no real intention to play.As for the 7 day thing? There are times when I've not been able to log in for several days at a time, I think it is great that it is being extended so that people can go on vacation and know that they might actually have some gold in the game to show for it, or go out on a date with their gf/wife/sig.other and not feel pressured into logging into a game just to keep a store open for another day...As for the change to allow all toons to sell, this will not increase (drastically) the amount of stuff on the broker, a player will only get so much stuff to sell, it just makes it more convientant to the player and *gasp* might even allow the player to rp such a thing as independence without having to break it to dole out money from their main or gimping their main since they can't sell anything while the other is selling.This isn't a big deal. This isn't reducing us to a single combine, this isn't drastically changing itemization, this is a relatively MINOR market adjustment made to make the game more convienant to the players.</blockquote>So you will agree that allowing people to only have to log in once every seven days will allow more items to be on the broker during that seven day period? I agree that allowing people to sell from all characters will not result in a drastic increase in the amount of items on the broker. However, the net result of these two changes is without a doubt going to be more items on the broker at any given time.

Calthine

07-27-2007, 01:11 AM

<cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>You were the one that brought up the NGE *shrug*. And I made that comment not because I haven't seen them (as you know), but because I have, and I still totally do not get your point of view. I really think you're overreacting. </blockquote>I think you have made it abundantly clear that you do not understand. Thank you for your input. </blockquote> Instead of dismissing the people who are not agreeing with you, how about explaining. I keep seeing... someone called it Chicken Little-ing... and no explanations. Precisely what do you fear? What's the problem? You're worried that more stuff will be on the market for longer. And... exactly what's the problem with that? So there's more competition, less price hyper-competitive gouging because we don't feel moved to rush stuff off the market to make room for more stuff, and a larger variety of items available to the customer base. Please, define precisely what negative outcome you fear. Zaldor wrote: <blockquote> I look forward to the day when it is finally opened up to all players and you don't have to log in at all to keep your items on the broker, that will be the day that EQ2 has finally broken that last "open to all casual players" barrier that it keeps bumping up against. </blockquote>Could you elaborate on that?

Meio

07-27-2007, 01:45 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>... This change is a convenience change, and in the overall scheme of things is about as game-changing as adding outdoor crafting stations and fuel vendors. .... </blockquote>Welll, now that is comparing apples with seagulls <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Not at all. The over all effect on the game will be negligible, once things settle down in a month or so. Outdoor crafting stations also had a negligible over all effect on the game. See? Apple, apple! </blockquote>Are you just back from the future or how do you know ? Do you really think that multiply the potential seller space with 7 has no effect on the prices/market ? We had allready once a big increase in available stuff on the market when they intoduced offline selling, as I remember prices had go down, back then.

Meio

07-27-2007, 01:47 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaldor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>You were the one that brought up the NGE *shrug*. And I made that comment not because I haven't seen them (as you know), but because I have, and I still totally do not get your point of view. I really think you're overreacting. </blockquote>I think you have made it abundantly clear that you do not understand. Thank you for your input. </blockquote> Instead of dismissing the people who are not agreeing with you, how about explaining. I keep seeing... someone called it Chicken Little-ing... and no explanations. Precisely what do you fear? What's the problem? You're worried that more stuff will be on the market for longer. And... exactly what's the problem with that? So there's more competition, less price hyper-competitive gouging because we don't feel moved to rush stuff off the market to make room for more stuff, and a larger variety of items available to the customer base. Please, define precisely what negative outcome you fear. </blockquote>Not all make low prices to rush it out because of full boxes, many are happy with low profit and make it back with high volume. Increasing the seller space will help this typ of crafter to place even more stuff on the market.

FoxRiverRanger

07-27-2007, 02:24 AM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of dismissing the people who are not agreeing with you, how about explaining. I keep seeing... someone called it Chicken Little-ing... and no explanations. Precisely what do you fear? What's the problem? You're worried that more stuff will be on the market for longer. And... exactly what's the problem with that? So there's more competition, less price hyper-competitive gouging because we don't feel moved to rush stuff off the market to make room for more stuff, and a larger variety of items available to the customer base. Please, define precisely what negative outcome you fear. </blockquote>"The sky is not falling..."But nor do I expect this change to usher in a new era of utopian bliss. Like most changes to the game, this to will have both positive and negative effects. Acknowledging the potential for negative effects is not tantamount to Chicken Little crying the sky is falling. There will be benefits for those that want to keep their alts independent, those that want more broker space, those that want to list lore items from alts, those casual players that log-on less frequently, or those that need to use the mail system to consolidate items for sale.For those that believe it is a flaw in the game, more attention may be focused upon the feature of the trustee system that allows a character to have the full advantages of upgraded housing without paying the rent on said house.There may be unavoidable benefits for those that break the EULA by allowing mass producing bottters to list in greater quantity, or those players that share an account to finance their characters separately.Every player will weight the importance of these, and any other, potential effects uniquely according to their playstyle. Those that are concerned with the impact on the economy are not wrong, nor are they fear mongering heralds of a never to appear Armageddon.My own personal experience with selling chameleon totems on the The Bazaar broker was a 37% reduction in the typical listing price when subcombines were removed and sales displays added. An item I consider a good ‘canary in the coal mine' as the desirability of chameleon totems passed unchanged through LU24/25. I believe the law of supply and demand will continue to exert an influence, and prices will drop further as more wares are listed after this change. "More competition" and "higher prices" are an oxymoron unless a concurrent increase in demand exists. Those crafters that frequently adjust prices and restock inventory will continue to work on maximizing sales. Crafters make commodity items, and low-price/high-volume rules under that market scheme. Those adventurers who list high-end rare loot items may benifit from reduced preasure to turn inventoroy.I look forward to stocking current high volume items deeper and expanding my offerings of the alts wares. I look forward to easily listing my alts crafted items. I do not care about character independence. Outside of the potential impact on sale prices, I do not care about week long listings as I play every day. All my characters will pay their rent; they do now anyway so I can get in and decorate. I will not suddenly be raising my prices because I no longer care about turning my inventory; quite the contrary. So, no falling sky; but I do expect dropping prices.