Please let Tinkerers use their selfmade crafter Items

[XeroXs84]

Hey all! So far, Tinkerers which are "only Tinkerers" without any primary TS-Profession (or not high enough one) cannot use the crafter-specific items, which i think is a shame.. I mean i am a Tinkerer at max level, and i cannot use the "summoned workbench" cos i am not high enough primary crafter.. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> same for the gnomish divining rod, or all the harvesting tools. I really think tinkerers & transmuters should get access to these items also, what u think?

[Deson]

Personally I feel they should be usable by either TS or adv level, same as the woodworker tools. There has to be a better way to make the different harvest tools distinct than the current situation. I do find it funny though that alternate trades, that aren't supposed to be real trades and don't have a TS requirement, can create items they themselves can't use because it requires a trade- especially considering tinkering is all about self enhancement.

[Meio]

Most of the crafters have recipies with stuff they can't use themself. If tinkering would only be about self enhancement, all the stuff they produce would be no trade.

[Deson]

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most of the crafters have recipies with stuff they can't use themself. If tinkering would only be about self enhancement, all the stuff they produce would be no trade. </blockquote>Ignoring that I want most of tinkering's restrictions dropped/seriously reworked(yes, that includes you level limited pets), almost everything of value that tinkers make is no-trade or tinker only. The most useful items they make that are tradeable are the parachutes, boots I can't remember right now and the crafting items they can't use. The major difference between tinkering and the base trades is that the base trades are predicated on service without necessarily using whats made, tinkering is almost entirely self enhancement and the only items they can't use that they make have no non-arbitrary reason to be restricted from them. Edit: Neglected the adorns they now have and to say that no-trade crafts in this case is meaningless since you can have the work commissioned thus only truly preventing a person from crafting for same account alts and selling on the broker.

[Meio]

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most of the crafters have recipies with stuff they can't use themself. If tinkering would only be about self enhancement, all the stuff they produce would be no trade. </blockquote>Ignoring that I want most of tinkering's restrictions dropped/seriously reworked(yes, that includes you level limited pets), almost everything of value that tinkers make is no-trade or tinker only. The most useful items they make that are tradeable are the parachutes, boots I can't remember right now and the crafting items they can't use. The major difference between tinkering and the base trades is that the base trades are predicated on service without necessarily using whats made, tinkering is almost entirely self enhancement and the only items they can't use that they make have no non-arbitrary reason to be restricted from them. </blockquote>Disagree, you are ignoring the fact that there are many adventurer which selected their crafting profession so that they can make stuff for themself which equals self enhancement. Its also possible to be a low level adventurer and a high level tinkerer if you you are a high enough crafter. Therefore tinkerer are only almost entirely self enhancement if they are high level adventurer. Otherwise they are almost entirely predicated on service like the otehr crafters. The tinkerer harvesting tools are better then the ww ones, so they put in an additional restriction. With the workbench you could say, to use a mobil crafting station you have to be a experienced crafter. If Tinkerer are only meant to enhance adventurer they should change it to the wow crafting style and make everything no trade.

[Deson]

I'm not ignoring the fact, it just doesn't count. The primary purpose of the base trades is to trade, not self sufficience. I know full well you can be a capped tinker with a low-level adventurer- my tinker isn't even level 30 adventurer yet. Almost every recipe in his book is currently useless to him but I have no issue with that because at the time when I burn through harvests to get him up, I was under the impression it was actually supposed to be a market skill. Yes, the tools are better than the WW ones, I side with the OP though that at the very least tinkers should be able to use them, I'll even argue they should be able to use crafting tables and have their own success enhancers. Why? Because if they didn't want tinkers to compete with WW's they never should have given them vastly superior tools in the first place(especially without improving WW tools) and the other items are of little consequence to anything. What actual detriment is it to the game for a tinker/transmuter to actually be able to make an adornment/tinkered item on the spot? I can't even figure why one would want to do it in the first place with any regularity. Actually, all the adventure related items are effectively no-trade or more exactly, tinker only. The entirety of tinkering and transmuting's implementation is almost farcical to me but that's an argument to far off topic.

[trovan2]

<p>Yeah, I was REALLY happy I could make a portable table, to find out I need 41 Trade Skill Level and not adventure level. I was extremely disappointed.</p><p>it would be awesome if they were adventure OR tradeskill level required, not just one (such as lvl 41 TS <b><i><u>or </u></i></b>Adventure).</p>

[Rijacki]

<cite>trovan2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah, I was REALLY happy I could make a portable table, to find out I need 41 Trade Skill Level and not adventure level. I was extremely disappointed.</p><p>it would be awesome if they were adventure OR tradeskill level required, not just one (such as lvl 41 TS <b><i><u>or </u></i></b>Adventure).</p></blockquote>Why would an adventure -ever- need a crafting table?  Basing it on adventure level at all is... ludicrous. However, I do see merit in having the Jewelcrafting table (the same one used for tinkering and transmuting) usable by tinkerers of at least 205 skill (or even higher) to give a level 0 artisan tinkerer a way to use his own table. But.. the reason the tinkered harvesting tools are tradeskill level only is to give them a distinction from the woodworker ones.  It's also, in some ways, a reward to tradeskillers to have items made where their artisan level matters (vs requiring them to have a high adventure level to get or use most things, even things that are for tradeskilling... like the Nek 3 tradeskill enchancement drops).

[FoxRiverRanger]

<p>Perhaps the tinkered harvest items allow the crafter to leverage his crafting skills and knowledge of the raw materials to more efficiently extract and prepare the raw materials. </p><p>Adventurers have long had access to content that provides crafting bonuses, from both equipable items and racial trait crafting skill bonuses.  That these tinkered items are actually benificial and desireable, yet only useable by crafters, can be looked upon as a beginning to adding content for crafters.  It is good to see that the developers saw fit to tell the adventuring community, "No you can not have these too, they are for the crafters."  There are many items a crafter/tinker can not use, and few that an adventurer/tinkerer can not.   Although I will concede allowing secondary skills to trigger use of the portable workbench would make sense.</p>

[dartie]

<cite>FoxRiverRanger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Although I will concede allowing secondary skills to trigger use of the portable workbench would make sense.</p></blockquote><p> Yup, I'd concede that one to tinkerers and tranmuters both, even if they are only L1 crafters.</p><p>I also think the OP makes a reasonable case for going even further.  If we think of tinkering and transmuting as 2ndary tradeskills, then I can see the case for adding tinkering of 310 or transmuting of 310 to use the overclocked harvesting tools reserved for other crafters.  (Transmuters could be a hard sell, since they don't even use the components one acquires while harvesting, but tinkerers seem like a shoe-in to me.)</p><p>(I sort of think that if these really are 2ndary tradeskills, they should be dependent solely on crafting level, not crafting OR adventuring level.  But given the way the system is set up, I see the OP's point.)</p>

[XeroXs84]

A tinkerer uses loads and loads of amounts of raws, ok granted they reduced them (ofc after I leveld mine up <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but still need alot loams. Now Tinkerers found a recipe which helps them harvest faster, yay!.. oh wait.. I cant use it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I really really really think there are good reasons to allow Tinkerers to use the portable workbench and the harvesting tools...

[BigChiefJJ]

<p>I'm still befuddled how you could have a secondary trade skill level (skill) higher than a primary trade skill level.  </p><p>Tinkering and Transmuting were originally dubbed as secondary trade skills and your max skill was tied to you maximum trade skill level, not the max of your trade skill or adventuring level.  Many people cried, complained, moaned and groaned that they did not want to have to level a crafter in order to make a tinker or transmuter so SOE eventually changed it to check either level. </p><p>I like having the desirable items that are limited by trade skill level.  If someone has to go through the trouble of leveling a crafter to T7 they will see the time that it takes and might stop complaining about how crafters are gouging the adventures for items that just take 30 seconds to make.   </p>

[Finora]

<p>Well, I'm of the mind that one shouldn't be able to be a tinker or a transmuter unless you HAVE a primary profession leveled up to (ie secondary trades directly related to how high your real trade level is). None of this letting it go by your adventure level mess. =p But it works fine how it is as well I guess <G> poor adventurers have to do something I suppose. /giggle</p><p>But that being said the items the OP wants to be able to use but can't are all tradeable. They ARE designed to be made and sold to people who could and would use them. They are designed for those people who actually DO real tradeskills and there really isn't any reason to change them from how they are currently.</p>

[Deggials]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>trovan2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah, I was REALLY happy I could make a portable table, to find out I need 41 Trade Skill Level and not adventure level. I was extremely disappointed.</p><p>it would be awesome if they were adventure OR tradeskill level required, not just one (such as lvl 41 TS <b><i><u>or </u></i></b>Adventure).</p></blockquote><b><span style="color: #0000ff">Why would an adventure -ever- need a crafting table?</span></b>  Basing it on adventure level at all is... ludicrous. However, I do see merit in having the Jewelcrafting table (the same one used for tinkering and transmuting) usable by tinkerers of at least 205 skill (or even higher) to give a level 0 artisan tinkerer a way to use his own table. But.. the reason the tinkered harvesting tools are tradeskill level only is to give them a distinction from the woodworker ones.  It's also, in some ways, a reward to tradeskillers to have items made where their artisan level matters (vs requiring them to have a high adventure level to get or use most things, even things that are for tradeskilling... like the Nek 3 tradeskill enchancement drops). </blockquote><p> An alchemist could use a chemistry table to make some more potions/poisons say for raid members, a carpenter to make some repair kits for raids, ww to make some arrows. Just to name a few uses for the portable ones.</p><p>The time limit on reuse(10 min reuse) needs to drop entirely or to lower, u get at best 3 combines from a charge and then have to wait a long time to reuse it.</p>

[Rijacki]

<cite>Deggials wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>trovan2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah, I was REALLY happy I could make a portable table, to find out I need 41 Trade Skill Level and not adventure level. I was extremely disappointed.</p><p>it would be awesome if they were adventure OR tradeskill level required, not just one (such as lvl 41 TS <b><i><u>or </u></i></b>Adventure).</p></blockquote><b><span style="color: #0000ff">Why would an adventure -ever- need a crafting table?</span></b>  Basing it on adventure level at all is... ludicrous. However, I do see merit in having the Jewelcrafting table (the same one used for tinkering and transmuting) usable by tinkerers of at least 205 skill (or even higher) to give a level 0 artisan tinkerer a way to use his own table. But.. the reason the tinkered harvesting tools are tradeskill level only is to give them a distinction from the woodworker ones.  It's also, in some ways, a reward to tradeskillers to have items made where their artisan level matters (vs requiring them to have a high adventure level to get or use most things, even things that are for tradeskilling... like the Nek 3 tradeskill enchancement drops). </blockquote><p> An alchemist could use a chemistry table to make some more potions/poisons say for raid members, a carpenter to make some repair kits for raids, ww to make some arrows. Just to name a few uses for the portable ones.</p></blockquote>Such a person would have a tradeskill level.  It would be foolish for a, for example, level 25 alchemist to go on a raid and expect that anyone would want his/her potions/poisons even if they are crafted on the spot.  A level 70 alchemist can use a portable crafting table if the crafting level is the criteria for use and on a raid, a level 70 alchemist with a crafting table would be a lot more useful than a level 25 one. The OP was advocating that it be crafting or adventuring level to determine being able to use a -crafting- table because tinkerers and transmuters don't need to have any crafting levels.

[Deson]

<cite>BigChiefJJ wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>I'm still befuddled how you could have a secondary trade skill level (skill) higher than a primary trade skill level.  </b></p><p><b>Tinkering and Transmuting were originally dubbed as secondary trade skills and your max skill was tied to you maximum trade skill level, not the max of your trade skill or adventuring level.  Many people cried, complained, moaned and groaned that they did not want to have to level a crafter in order to make a tinker or transmuter so SOE eventually changed it to check either level.</b> </p><p>I like having the desirable items that are limited by trade skill level.  If someone has to go through the trouble of leveling a crafter to T7 they will see the time that it takes and might stop complaining about how crafters are gouging the adventures for items that just take 30 seconds to make.   </p></blockquote>That entire point was hashed out in another thread and essentially it was said that the secondaries were always intended on some level to be as they are now. Don't blame your fellow players for the change, blame an absolutely ridiculous development and marketing process. The latter point I can sympathize with but, if someone levels to a t7 crafter for any purpose other than crafting itself, it does a great harm to the crafting community by at least adding a person not too concerned with crafting as an activity unto itself and removing a potential customer.Besides, people who choose to complain typically aren't that interested in the pricing aspects anyhow and if forced to craft for a significant benefit, would just come here and complain endlessly- and that was proven on the old forums.

[DasUberFuzzy]

there are a couple more nice uses of the portable tables, all those old HQ's that make you craft something, usually requiring a long time consuming walk back to town (manastone/flowing sash/wurmslayer), assuming everyone in your group has the required TS level (41+) to use them, it can make the time needed for the quest MUCH shorter

[Ookami-san]

<cite>Meiox2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most of the crafters have recipies with stuff they can't use themself. If tinkering would only be about self enhancement, all the stuff they produce would be no trade. </blockquote><p> I don't think you understand... certain tools are usable only by a certain level tradeskiller (ie. 67 level tradeskill).  Tinkerers don't have "levels" per se... but instead have raw skill.</p><p>In other words, there is no level 67 tinkerer... there is a tinkerer with 335 skill.  So, that means, a tinkerer cannot use the special harvest tools they make because they do not have an actual "level" - even though they have the equivelent skill.</p>

[trovan2]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>trovan2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yeah, I was REALLY happy I could make a portable table, to find out I need 41 Trade Skill Level and not adventure level. I was extremely disappointed.</p><p>it would be awesome if they were adventure OR tradeskill level required, not just one (such as lvl 41 TS <b><i><u>or </u></i></b>Adventure).</p></blockquote>Why would an adventure -ever- need a crafting table?  Basing it on adventure level at all is... ludicrous. However, I do see merit in having the Jewelcrafting table (the same one used for tinkering and transmuting) usable by tinkerers of at least 205 skill (or even higher) to give a level 0 artisan tinkerer a way to use his own table. But.. the reason the tinkered harvesting tools are tradeskill level only is to give them a distinction from the woodworker ones.  It's also, in some ways, a reward to tradeskillers to have items made where their artisan level matters (vs requiring them to have a high adventure level to get or use most things, even things that are for tradeskilling... like the Nek 3 tradeskill enchancement drops). </blockquote>Not all people are hardcore crafters mind you, I like to craft and adventure, so just because I don't have a large level in crafting should'y mean I can't use the item I made in tinkering.