Monk vs Bruiser - Solo [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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DarrkElf

07-20-2007, 12:24 AM

I play on a PvE server and want to roll a new solo alt.With all the game updates, nerfs, and changes to AA lines I'd just like to get some quick views from people on the pros/cons of a Monk over a Bruiser for solo.Would you say that a Monk would be better for soloing than a Bruiser?What makes them better/worse than a Bruiser for soloing?

Taiken

07-20-2007, 01:21 AM

I have a level 70 monk.. I started to face problems soloing around level 40 or 50.. Names were really really hard to defeat soloing. However, in a mob of greens, you can handle them easily with a monk class. Traditionally, bruisers do more DPS than a monk... I've actaully seen more bruisers solo than monks recently.. I'm not really sure, and I can't confirm this but I think a brusier can heal themselves faster than a monk can.. Which would speed up your soloing. Beaware tho, at the high levels you will not be able to solo so easily... It's hard.. REAL hard.. compared to all the other classes at the end levels.. I've seen assasins in forsaken city solo names like they were nothign! where as if I try.. I die because my FD fails <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Here's a link in the brusier section that has a comparison as to why one user betrayed their class as a monk for a brusier... Hopefully it's more helpful than my info: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=365500" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=365500</a>Also and added bonus, a brusier is typically more welcome than a monk in a raid.. However, as a brawler, don't expect to be invited to any raids .. Brawlers are just not needed in norrath <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Couching

07-20-2007, 02:05 AM

Bruiser is much better than monk since they have better self heal with half refresh time of monk. It's a big bonus for solo. Also, they have better damage CAs. Overall, if both monk and bruiser have all CA mastered, average dps of bruiser CA in raid is about 200 dps more than monk. Also, they have a powerful skill-drag. It's one of most useful skills in raids. Overall, bruiser is better than monk in solo and very useful in particular raids, such as avatar of flames. What's the bright side of monk? In my opinion, bruiser is better than monk in solo. But monk is better than bruiser in group. The reason is that we can heal group member if needed and group fd. Basically, monk is a class you don't need it but if there is anything wrong, a smart monk can safe his group. PS: I have a lv70 monk and leveling up a bruiser. It's not because bruiser is better, just bcz I am bored since I am only interested in brawler. The only choise for me to play an alt is bruiser. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

x82nd77

07-20-2007, 02:26 AM

I am actually glad this topic came up, rolled a monk a couple days ago for my alt for quests and some light farming and now after reading this I wonder if they are suitable to the task.

Raidi Sovin'faile

07-20-2007, 02:33 AM

You will be capable, but if you are seriously looking at solely soloing, a Bruiser has better self interest benefits (heal, etc) and better burst damage (kill things faster before they hurt you), so in the end will have the advantage. Like I said in the Bruiser forum, the damage is the same if the Monk gets to cast his CAs twice (since most abilities are half damage, but twice as fast CA recast), but soloing is all about killing things before they do too much damage. A lot of parses reflect this because Monks don't get a chance to use all their CAs a second time before things die. That and Knockout Combination is a LOT better for burst damage than Dragon Breath (or whatever it is).

Deathspell

07-20-2007, 07:56 AM

Monks and Bruisers are definately fun to level up, but it's in the end game when you hit a brick wall. Personally, I don't see that many monks around anymore at 70. They all made another 70 toon and if you wanna raid, you'll be asked to bring your newer toon. The only real reason my monk got ASKED for a raid was to trigger the hidden mobs in Deathtoll, that's about it really. Bruisers have drag skill now, which is not useable on some raids. Monks on the other hand don't get anything at all like this. The only thing that keeps Monks a tiny bit standing is the group fd, people love that (when it works). But aside from that rare occasion....

x82nd77

07-20-2007, 08:37 PM

So basicly farming with a monk is very possible but it is made a little easier with the bruisers larger quick heal is the moral? Just like to clairify seeing as I have always heard brawlers were the absolute best for a quester/farmer.

Couching

07-20-2007, 08:44 PM

Nope. We are good in solo but by far to best farmer. We have fd to get to named but you can't kill named with fd. Wizard is best farmer indeed. Actually, casters are better than melee to farm named or instance. I have heard that mage/crusader solo all named in nest but it is impossible for brawler even you are top geared. My best try have got 3 named and failed on 4th named. Not to say the final boss. It's all your choice. You want to get to named easier, get bruiser or you want to farm harder named, then pick up crusader.

Wildfury77

07-20-2007, 09:24 PM

Low and Mid-tiers Monk is an absolutely awesome named soloer. My 35 monk has made 100s of plat off nameds in FG/ROV/SH/CBK/RE etc.... I like having Windwalk - which u can keep up more or less forever with power totem and drink. Combo of FD and windwalk lets you bypass most trash on way to Named. Tier 2/3/4 i would argue a monk or Swashtank are far better *dungeon-soloers* than mages/rangers etc.....we can handle crowded spaces and don't mind the odd add or too. Mages are great soloers in more open spaces. Also "root/nuke" - is kinda dodgy on a PvP server..... What can my 35 monk handle? usually no higher than even-con (white) ^^^ named. But bear in mind thats with Full masters and the best fabled armor/jewelry i can get + full adorns + full rare potions. I'm aware most tier 4 monks will not be able to handle white con.....but blue should be easy. P.S. If you are going to be a named soloer as monk, you need intelligence line maxed out. Final skill is very useful. If you plan on handling hard hitting nameds as a swashie --->stamina line + good fabled roundshield is the best approach.

Aull

07-25-2007, 12:23 PM

Ok just my two copper here. I have a lvl 57 bruiser and just flat love the survivability of him. Here is where I have a misunderstanding. I hear the bruiser's parse better than a monk? I really don't see how this could be possible. I understand that bruisers have harder hitting combat abilities, but monks at the higher lvls have wonderful haste so their auto attack is much stronger in that department than a bruiser. Also a monks combat abilities refresh quicker than a bruisers...or so I hear...again I have never played a monk so bare with me on that one. 90 second refresh on the heal for a bruiser vs 2min 30 sec heal for monk, so bruisers can solo alittle better.....somewhat. The other night I was in Lesser Faydark and was taking out some lvl 60 nonheroic mobs with my 56 bruiser. I felt that was cool, but the fights where long and had to use the fire stance to do it because in offensive stance was just taking to much damage. Almost every combat ability was parried or just flat out missed, but auto attack damage did most of the damage. I that case I would have liked to have had a monk's haste to get it done. I am barefisted fighting with crits aa setup, and I feel that is the best fighting style for brawlers (just my opinion). My cousin's monk fights barefisted and has the crits and it is just insain damage!!! He was parsed the other night with a bruiser in the group and (depending on the bruisers aa set up which I do not know) his monk was parsing somewhere around 500 + more dps than the bruiser. IMHO I feel a monk takes mobs down much faster than a bruiser, but a bruiser can solo at a constant rate due to the fact that the bruiser can heal up faster. All in all both are fun to play and that is what matters! I have not met any toon in the game that has either that hasn't luved these classes.

BChizzle

07-27-2007, 11:36 AM

Bruisers are a little better. But monk solo fine you chain stun stifle hit tsunami then chain again maybe heal and most named are dead.

McDade

07-30-2007, 03:20 AM

Couching@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>Bruiser is much better than monk since they have better self heal with half refresh time of monk. It's a big bonus for solo. Also, they have better damage CAs. Overall, if both monk and bruiser have all CA mastered, average dps of bruiser CA in raid is about 200 dps more than monk. Also, they have a powerful skill-drag. It's one of most useful skills in raids. Overall, bruiser is better than monk in solo and very useful in particular raids, such as avatar of flames. What's the bright side of monk? In my opinion, bruiser is better than monk in solo. But monk is better than bruiser in group. The reason is that we can heal group member if needed and group fd. Basically, monk is a class you don't need it but if there is anything wrong, a smart monk can safe his group. PS: I have a lv70 monk and leveling up a bruiser. It's not because bruiser is better, just bcz I am bored since I am only interested in brawler. The only choise for me to play an alt is bruiser. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Glad to see you are leveling up a Bruiser. I get a lot of good information from your posts. Which class can solo better? That depends on level and AA spec. of course.When first rolling my PvP Bruiser (after playing a Monk lvl 50 on PvE server) I was astonished at the damage on the Bruiser's combat arts and the 90 second heal. Seems like this would give the Bruiser a great advantage when soloing. Up to around lvl 55 or so I think the Bruiser does have a slight advantage soloing and in PvP as well for those interested in PvP. From there on the scales begin to tip in the Monk's favor.At current end game, A MONK IS A FAR BETTER SOLOER THAN A BRUISER AND WILL ALMOST ALWAYS BEAT A SIMILARLY EQUIPED BRUISER IN 1 ON 1 PvP.I don't know your AA spec couching, but if a Monk wants to solo/PvP I would suggest Int/Wis to end abilities for sure, and enhance your heal.Sure Knockout Combination is great burst damage and the 90 second heal is nice but KO combo will run out long before even a lvl 60 named is dead, and I have yet to have a fight long enough for me to get two heals in when soloing a named on my bruiser, one of us is dead by then.The heals when enhanced seem to self heal for about the same. The shorter reuse only really helps when training to the mobs, but this advantage is negated by the fact that Monks can windwalk past A lot of them.Here is the strat that I believe gives the Monk an advantage soling:Fight normally in offensive stance and use your 30 second spirit like mountain at beginning of fight. When you get to 30% health your +Crit buff from the Int line will kick in. This is where the Monk will shine because he can stay below 30% health safely for MUCH longer than the Bruiser. Once below 30% health the combination of the crits from Int AA buff, self haste from your group buff + everburning blaze, and Crane Flock from the Wis AA line will give the Monk some insane damage output."But how do I safely stay below 30% health to get the full benefit of this awesome combo", you ask? Simple, Tsunami (which is a better defensive ability than anything a Bruiser can bring to the table) and Outward Calm (which is equal to or even better than Stone Deaf).If by some miracle the mob is still alive, you can pop your heal, and what do you know, you didn't use any Combat Arts during that onslaught so they are pretty much all back up, O wait it has been 30 seconds since Spirit like Mountain went down, hmmmm. Pop Spirit like Mountain, cycle Combat Arts and switch to Defensive stance if needed to finish off fight.As far as solo PvP goes, it is pretty much the same as above.Raid DPS seems pretty equal for the two classes, course my main is a Bruiser on a PvP server so I never really get to raid with a Monk, so this is basicly just my educated opinion, but it seems that on short fights the Bruiser has an advantage and on longer ones the Monk does ....zonewide it is a wash.Tanking advantage is clearly to the Monk. Why?Spirit like Mountain being on a 30 second timer means Monk can pop it every fight if needed. Sure Bruiser mitigation buff lasts much longer but it must be saved for nameds and such and can not be used for situational tanking. Tsunami ....need I say more?As far as Raid Utility goes and even Group Utility ......Rescue + Tsunami + Outward calm is way more handy than a five second drag (soon to be 4 seconds). Sure Bruiser can hit Rescue too but without Tsunami and being stuck in group 4 with limited healing ....it means certain death before the healers can even target me. Also remember that you can heal the main tank of a raid in a pinch as well and FD your group if all else fails.You can bet that if i ever go Exile on Venekor that I will betray to Monk first.Morrisedit to add this - Monk hats look way better than Bruiser hats and Monk PvP armor is not flourescent green is it?

Raidi Sovin'faile

07-30-2007, 05:51 AM

Hmm... as a Bruiser, I've been capable of soloing plenty of named on my own over lvl 60. About the highest I've killed was around 68 or 69, and plenty in EoF. Going by your tactics for Monk soloing, I can tell you it's very different when playing a Bruiser, and I can definitely get my heal twice in a fight if I use Mez and other control abilities properly instead of just spamming and hoping it dies. Also, in a PvP environment, you might be forced to fight for longer than you intended, or get jumped without being prepared or right after another fight... so yeah... the faster the recast on your heal, the more prepared you will be. As for raid use... I've heard nothing but complaints from Monks and their Tsunami not working here, or there, etc. My Drag has been super useful though. *shrug*

Couching

07-30-2007, 01:44 PM

My bruiser is lv53 now. Most bruiser T6 CAs are as powerful as monk T7 CAs. By parsing, I found that int line with two imbued master crafted weapons and adornments are better than str line. Not to say, I got 300+ hp from weapons and 2 life tap proc

McDade

07-31-2007, 01:42 AM

Kaisoku@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>Hmm... as a Bruiser, I've been capable of soloing plenty of named on my own over lvl 60. About the highest I've killed was around 68 or 69, and plenty in EoF. That is pretty impressive, to solo a lvl 69 named with the equipment you have .....can you teach me? Going by your tactics for Monk soloing, I can tell you it's very different when playing a Bruiser, and I can definitely get my heal twice in a fight if I use Mez and other control abilities properly instead of just spamming and hoping it dies. Also, in a PvP environment, you might be forced to fight for longer than you intended, or get jumped without being prepared or right after another fight... so yeah... the faster the recast on your heal, the more prepared you will be. Maybe that is what I am doing wrong, i dont use mez and fear enough I suppose. They never seemed to work well for me though. Seems that by the time I stop attacking and get a mez off, the damage i have taken and the damage I have missed out on doing negate the benefits of lengthening the fight. Fear always has that chance to pull social adds. Seems the only place I use both Fear and Mez is on the second named in Acadechism on the two adds at the beginning of the fight because you cant kill the adds then FD and kill the named as the encounter resets too fast. On a side note, i cant seem to solo Dvinn at all for some reason ...fight lasts too long with the rounds of shadows and all. As for raid use... I've heard nothing but complaints from Monks and their Tsunami not working here, or there, etc. My Drag has been super useful though. *shrug* Exactly how should i use Drag on a raid? I keep hearing to position the mob, but if the MT can't position the mob when he has agro, what makes me able to do it in 5 seconds?It has come in handy when a lifeburner pulls agro, I can get them five more seconds to burn before the mob squishes them, LOL.If the MT takes a lot of damage I can pop Drag to buy him five seconds for the healers to catch up, but this usually turns the mob toward the raid which is not a very good idea for obvious reasons.If the MT goes down i can hold the mob for five seconds (if i live that long with fourth group buffs on me) before he goes happily crunching through our raid force. I dont have enough hate generation to hold him any longer than that, especially since I have to switch to defensive stance in order to stay alive.It could possibly come in handy on memwiping mobs but we uaually handle that with dual plate tanks just fine, no reason here to sacrafice a bruiser.If you have some other uses for Drag in a raid, i would love to hear about them.Morris </blockquote>

McDade

07-31-2007, 02:00 AM

Couching@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote>My bruiser is lv53 now. Most bruiser T6 CAs are as powerful as monk T7 CAs. Agreed, some are even more powerful. You will love KO combo too at lvl 55 I think. Monk CAs are not as powerful but are useable again in half the time, as I recall.By parsing, I found that int line with two imbued master crafted weapons and adornments are better than str line. Not to say, I got 300+ hp from weapons and 2 life tap procI agree with this as well. I never saw any benefit from strength line personally. If you don't get weapon upgrades by about lvl 55, your DPS will fall behind the str line a bit, but the added survivability more than makes up for it to me ....and weapon upgrades are not that expensive for brawlers until T7 because only a few of us are using them, woot!Hey Couching, have you ever tried the tsunami, outward calm,everburning blaze, crane flock below 30% health thing while soloing on your monk? I have not played me old monk since I moved to PvP server so i have not actually done it first hand .....i have watched it done and have it done to me more than once a day in TT and it is very impressive ....just wondering your thoughts on it?Morris</blockquote>

Couching

07-31-2007, 03:22 AM

Yes, that's almost a standard playing procedure for monk to solo hard mobs. Though, I didn't use everburning blaze in solo. By my test, it's unworthy to lose hp constntly for extra haste while fighting hard mobs.For example, without EB, my weapon dealy is 1.3. With EB, my weapon delay is 1.2. I only use EB when I group with a healer in a group or raid but not in solo.Since Tsunami is a lv58 CA, I would say monk is clearily worse than bruiser in solo before lv58. My bruiser is a beast at any level. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />After lv58, monk with int/wis line and tsunami combo will be able to kill some hard mobs that it's impossible before.

Raidi Sovin'faile

07-31-2007, 04:21 AM

When you use Drag, if you move the mob is forced to follow you. So when the wizard or whoever pulls aggro and the mob runs off, and the tank was using hunker or whatnot so he's self slowed movement or whatever, you can slap on Drag, and run towards the tank and voila... mob is forced to back where he was. Also nice if the MT gets stunned or mez'd or charmed, etc.. and you want the mob to be in a specific spot. Also, combining Drag with Sonic Fist makes a very nice pulling technique to bring mobs back asap instead of having it run and attacking at a distance. Combine it with your MT hitting the mob you dragged and then FD makes it so you can get around social aggro near the mobs as well. Quite a bit of utility there, I'd say. Oh, and Knockout Combination is lvl 65, might be a bit of a while before you get it on your 53 Bruiser.

Igu

08-01-2007, 03:11 PM

My 70 Monk is on the shelve. Not a tank, not DPS, not utility. I have a wee Bruiser, but knowing the Brawler blight, I cant see playing him too much.My current love is a Combat Mystic. He is a ton of fun. I can always respec if I need, but at 55, I can kill things my monk could never dream of at his level.