What if both woodworker and armorers made all the sheilds?

[Barbai]

I am curious what everyone here may think of this minor idea. Its fairly common knowledge know that woodworkers made the smaller shields, buckler and round shields, while armorer makes the larger ones, kite and tower. My idea was that both would be able to create all the varieties of shields but each one would create certain stats based on who made it. A woodworkers shield would be lighter made and offer less protection then their metal counterpart but would be better able to help caster based stats of say the knight classes or priest who desire to carry a buckler  for an extra bit of protection  if things hit the fan. The metal based shields including the bucklers and round shields would be able to offer more protection then their wooden counterpart and be much more centered around enhancing a fighters abilities but not really the casting prowess of a priest or knight who chooses to use them.

[Terron]

<cite>Barbai wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am curious what everyone here may think of this minor idea. Its fairly common knowledge know that woodworkers made the smaller shields, buckler and round shields, while armorer makes the larger ones, kite and tower. My idea was that both would be able to create all the varieties of shields but each one would create certain stats based on who made it. A woodworkers shield would be lighter made and offer less protection then their metal counterpart but would be better able to help caster based stats of say the knight classes or priest who desire to carry a buckler  for an extra bit of protection  if things hit the fan. The metal based shields including the bucklers and round shields would be able to offer more protection then their wooden counterpart and be much more centered around enhancing a fighters abilities but not really the casting prowess of a priest or knight who chooses to use them. </blockquote>If you want to approach historical accuracy it is the woodworker's shields that should give greater protection. Two archaeologists once decided to settle an arguement other whether (large) metal shields were for ceremony only, so they had a fight with spear and shield each. The metal shield was soon full of holes, but the wooden one would flex without breaking.

[dartie]

<cite>Barbai wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am curious what everyone here may think of this minor idea. Its fairly common knowledge know that woodworkers made the smaller shields, buckler and round shields, while armorer makes the larger ones, kite and tower. My idea was that both would be able to create all the varieties of shields but each one would create certain stats based on who made it. A woodworkers shield would be lighter made and offer less protection then their metal counterpart but would be better able to help caster based stats of say the knight classes or priest who desire to carry a buckler  for an extra bit of protection  if things hit the fan. The metal based shields including the bucklers and round shields would be able to offer more protection then their wooden counterpart and be much more centered around enhancing a fighters abilities but not really the casting prowess of a priest or knight who chooses to use them. </blockquote><p> You appear to be proposing new recipes for woodworkers and armorers (the 2 most painful classes to level in my opinion).  </p><p>You therefore have my full support.  Historical accuracy can be worked out by anyone who is interested; I'll take my recipes NOW please.</p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p>I love this idea, give those classes more items to craft WITHOUT inventing new recipes.</p><p>woodworkers AND weaponsmiths could both make all ammo, thus giving both classes more recipes at once without any new items being added to game.</p><p>Who says ONLY 1 class can make xyz.  the possibilities are endless.</p>

[dartie]

CoLD MeTaL wrote: <blockquote><p>I love this idea, give those classes more items to craft WITHOUT inventing new recipes.</p><p>woodworkers AND weaponsmiths could both make all ammo, thus giving both classes more recipes at once without any new items being added to game.</p><p>Who says ONLY 1 class can make xyz.  the possibilities are endless.</p></blockquote><p> I can already anticipate some folks complaining that it won't be fair for them to have to deal with extra competition on the broker, but I too think that the possibilities are attractive enough for Domino to at least consider this option.</p><p>New pristine bonuses for classes that are struggling + NO NEW database space requirements + VIRTUALLY NO programming time required.  Man, talk about a quick fix.</p><p>EDIT: Upon further reflection, I do not think it would be difficult to reach a consensus about which recipes in the game produce vendor trash.  The OP has hit upon an excellent example with all handcrafted shields (imbued or not).  There might be an armorer who would begrudge woodworkers the chance to make mastercrafted kite shields (or a woodworker who would begrudge an armormith the chance to make mastercrafted bucklers), but I seriously doubt there is a single woodworker who would object to an armorer making handcrafted roundshields.  What would either class care?  The only reason to make those items is to collect your pristine bonus and sell them to the fuel merchant.</p><p>Ammo might be a touchier subject for woodworkers who like the idea of monopolizing the thrown ammo trade (though I'm sympathetic to folks who made weaponsmiths precisely to make shurikens only to have that capacity taken from them).</p><p>Anyway, I think Cold Metal's instinct to run with the OP's suggestion in ways not anticipated by the OP can be a viable solution to a sticky problem.</p><p>EDIT2: Fox corrected my mistake of lumping all thrown ammo and arrows in together.</p>

[Barbai]

I think you guys are misunderstanding my idea. I am saying that both classes could be able to make the same types buckler, kite and so  on however, the wood worker would make shields that lean more toward hybrid/caster stats while the armorer would make shields more for the pure scouts and fighters who have little need for stats that casters use. So there would be new items introduced that create a larger variety of shields beyond just type as well as creating more things to make for first pristine bonus.

[dartie]

<p>Barbai,</p><p>You did a fine job of expressing this in the first post, and maybe other folks will be interested in that angle.  </p><p>I'm not misunderstanding your idea.  I'm just twisting it to suit my own nefarious purpose of getting more recipes for my WW and Armorer ASAP.  </p><p>Sure, I think it would be neat for the stats to be slightly different depending on which class makes the item.</p><p>But Domino is going to point out that she's under pressure to have crafting tie up LESS database space, not more.</p><p>Eventually, something along the lines of what you suggest would be possible, and I'm for it.  But as a short-term fix for those of us who are dying for new recipes, I'm fastening onto something that only RELATES to your initial idea.  Sorry about taking that liberty, but it doesn't mean that I don't like your idea or that I don't understand it--just that I'm twisted and self-centered and all sorts of other naughty things.</p>

[FoxRiverRanger]

<cite>dartie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ammo might be a touchier subject for woodworkers who like the idea of monopolizing the arrow trade (though I'm sympathetic to folks who made weaponsmiths precisely to make arrows only to have that capacity taken from them).</p></blockquote><p>Woodworkers have always made arrows, thus the reason for calling the skill used in woodworking Fletching.  The thrown ammunitions were the only recipes taken from weaponsmiths and given to woodworkers.  At the same time, the kite and tower shields were taken from woodworkers and given to armorers; who were concurrently receiving the then new specialty armorer sets (Melodic, Brigandine, Plate, and the one whose name eludes me at the moment).</p>

[dartie]

<p>Whoopsy.  Thanks for the correction, Fox.  I've edited my post so as not to spread false info.</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>dartie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ammo might be a touchier subject for woodworkers who like the idea of monopolizing the thrown ammo trade (though I'm sympathetic to folks who made weaponsmiths precisely to make shurikens only to have that capacity taken from them). </blockquote> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Weaponsmiths are more than welcome to have their ammo back.  I barely have time to keep up on arrows.

[Barbai]

Attempts to shove thread back on its tracks , can we talk about he shields before arrows? After all you use shields to block said arrows right?

[Rijacki]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dartie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ammo might be a touchier subject for woodworkers who like the idea of monopolizing the thrown ammo trade (though I'm sympathetic to folks who made weaponsmiths precisely to make shurikens only to have that capacity taken from them). </blockquote> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Weaponsmiths are more than welcome to have their ammo back.  I barely have time to keep up on arrows. </blockquote>You might think that, but there might well be woodworkers who like having all the ammo. (Personally I think the metal stuff should never have been taken from the weaponsmiths and don't think there was any logical reason why it was moved). As for shields (helping with the shoving).. I personally think it would be great to have 2 different sets of shields with different types of stats.  I am all about choices and there really aren't any choices for crafted shields.  It might, though, be frustrating for one crafter vs the other is someone comes asking for a shield type he can't make even though he can make the other. But, with that argument, too, I don't know why shields were split between the 2 classes.  Each being able to make one of each type would be less confusing, in my opinion.

[Deson]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dartie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ammo might be a touchier subject for woodworkers who like the idea of monopolizing the thrown ammo trade (though I'm sympathetic to folks who made weaponsmiths precisely to make shurikens only to have that capacity taken from them). </blockquote> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Weaponsmiths are more than welcome to have their ammo back.  I barely have time to keep up on arrows. </blockquote>You might think that, but there might well be woodworkers who like having all the ammo. (Personally I think the metal stuff should never have been taken from the weaponsmiths and don't think there was any logical reason why it was moved). As for shields (helping with the shoving).. I personally think it would be great to have 2 different sets of shields with different types of stats.  I am all about choices and there really aren't any choices for crafted shields.  It might, though, be frustrating for one crafter vs the other is someone comes asking for a shield type he can't make even though he can make the other. But, with that argument, too, I don't know why shields were split between the 2 classes.  Each being able to make one of each type would be less confusing, in my opinion. </blockquote>Count me with Cal. When I saw the ammo change I posted immediately "Shurikens are made of wood?!". I never wanted ammo  but Beghn's reasoning made sense- it was customer convenience  to find all ammo on one crafter. Of course, in that exact same change he gave armorers shields that completely blew customer convenience out of the water; his reasoning there was (in a slight nod to numbers balance) it seemed logical to give the armorer's bigger heavier shields. While I'd be more than happy to give them their ammo back now, I'd oppose the idea if it weren't part of a comprehensive change because I'm tired of nickel and dime moves that keep  changing direction. Not really a fan of the OP's suggestion; it's more philosophical than anything since I'm a strong advocate of each class having their markets be exclusive to them. Practically speaking, kite shields and tower shields protect the same(in t1,t2and t7 at least, this is another area of mechanics inconsistency since they clearly stated the two are to protect the same- the difference is almost negligible anyway in other tiers.) and already have a caster/Melee split to them. Bucklers are meant for priests and while I can see a priest wanting a Melee stat shield for soloing, it's only one slot for one activity and the last time that was done(Beghn's "imbues change the stats" experiment) it didn't go over so hot with the community or my wallet. That leaves roundshields, only usable by scouts- when was the last time you saw a scout use a shield? Oh sure bards may now with their AP and a tanking rogue may but, the rogue will want the melee stats. That leaves the bard, again, it's only one slot. One slot for one class that thus far mostly uses the shield for one ability granted by AP.... I just don't see it working out.

[Valsehna]

<cite>Barbai wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think you guys are misunderstanding my idea. I am saying that both classes could be able to make the same types buckler, kite and so  on however, the wood worker would make shields that lean more toward hybrid/caster stats while the armorer would make shields more for the pure scouts and fighters who have little need for stats that casters use. So there would be new items introduced that create a larger variety of shields beyond just type as well as creating more things to make for first pristine bonus. </blockquote> I think its an exceptionally fine idea.

[Terron]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>dartie wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ammo might be a touchier subject for woodworkers who like the idea of monopolizing the thrown ammo trade (though I'm sympathetic to folks who made weaponsmiths precisely to make shurikens only to have that capacity taken from them). </blockquote> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Weaponsmiths are more than welcome to have their ammo back.  I barely have time to keep up on arrows. </blockquote>I agree, though some recipes in compensation for those levelling up would be good. Regarding the OP, tower and kite shields are basically mellee and caster versions of heavy shields. I am not in favour of adding new undesirable recipes just for the sake of pristine bonuses. If there is a good roleplaying reason then OK, but other wise there would need to be a useful difference. Rather than a mellee/caster division between armourer and woodwroker versions of the same types of shields, perhaps an offense/defensive division. Taking tower shields as an example the armourer one might have more strength than stamina and the woodworker ones the other way around. Imbued armourer ones would proc for damage as now but imbued woodworker ones would proc a heal or ward. I don't think it would add a lot though.