I'm sick of everyoning Bleeping about monks/brusiers who want to join raids. [Archive]

Taiken

07-16-2007, 01:56 AM

First off, IF by some freaking glorious miricle a dev reads this post.. Then by god, I am sure it's just as rare as a mythical.. So if you are reading this.. Then please take the following rant / complaint as a serious matter.. because right now, I am NOT enjoying the game.. How many of you have spent a month trying to get to 70?.. Well.. I've spent about 6 months getting my character 70... With the schedule of work and family/friends.. I am surprised I even reached 70. Since level sixty, people have always said.. Wait till you're level 70 and you'll get to raid and etc.. Well I reached 70 a month a go now.. and you know what?.. There is NO respect for monks for groups or raids.. I AM SICK OF IT.. DEVS DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT... In 60-69 channel.. I'll post up.. "70 monk looking for a raid". The response? Azura says: "Since when do monks/brusiers? Raid?.. Monks/Bruisers don't raid" Azura says: "Monks and brusiers are useless in raids.. They don't contribute anything" Taiken Says: "We contribute a lot to a raid.. Every class does.. We can heal the MT, and keep him alive, we can tsunami and rescue the tank if he is about to die, and we can do critical damage when we need to"Strago says: "Monks only do "OK" damage.. They contribute pretty much nothing to a raid" Other people quote: "The reason why monks aren't needed is because they do a lousy job tanking, and their DPS isn't that great.. People rather get a good plate tank and a high damage assassin or caster instead" (That's right, I quoted you guys.. Got a problem? Tough sh*t. I had to deal with you guys not accepting my class as a monk.. )This is a serious problem.. I dont have the time of day to go and make another level 70 character.. I don't want to spend several months just getting to 70 and trying to get the needed gear and spells.. Rediculous. I don't understand why we monks are left behind after EVERY freaking class in the game.. When the monk should seriously be one of the most deadly classes out there.. Look at the history of the monk, the wushu styles the martial arts do critical damage to foes.. Monks in real life master just abotu every weapon known to man.. But we are left using our fists or some dinky katars or something.. WHY don't monks get to use at least ONE sword?.. One Katana?.. Why is our avoidance lower than a plate tank?... MONKS are known to dodge real life attacks, to manouver or block attacks in such a easy motion.. Monks should be respected for what they do.. We can save an entire group with our group FD and we can save ourselves and raise a healer..We should be able to do impressive damage compared to an assassin or a ranger.. We should be able to disable our targets or something.. this is totally not fair.. PEOPLE have spoken, the monk class is the least favored class in the game.. We're not wanted in groups, in raids or in those high end guilds... The only people who like monks are people who enjoy the player instead of the class.. Otherwise we'r ejust an accessory.. MAKE US NEEDED, PEOPLE NEED A HEALER, THEY NEED A MEZZER, THEY NEED A HIGH END DPS, THEY NEED A CASTER, THEY NEED A TANK..THEY NEED COB, WHERE DO WE FALL INTO THE MIX?.. FIX THIS, THIS IS NOT FAIR!

SykeAuttic

07-16-2007, 04:32 AM

Sadly life isn't fair and it has become clear that SOE doesn't know how to improve the situation.

Wildfury77

07-16-2007, 05:12 AM

Firstly ANY CLASS SPAMMING "70 xxxxxxx looking or Raid" is not going to get invited to any of the decent raids....(maybe to a Labs pickup, MoA, etc .) Speaking as an ex-raider (now pvping up to 70) 1) A good raid team - knows their members, usually just takes guildmates. 2) A random guy of unknown ability is NOT a good plan. 3) Most raid guilds have their own looting system...... If my old guild was taking someone randomly spamming in chat - it would be on a trial with no-looting privileges - on the understanding they JOIN the guild if everyone is happy. As a "new-raider" you should be able to join a non-hardcore to "medium" raiding guild if you have reasonable gear and 50%+ masters. These guilds will happily take monks/bruisers/anyone who wants to help them master the KoS raidzones. AND you will contribute!! A monk with twin calamities/master skills in a Medium-raiding guild will be relatively high on the parse.....AND an adequate tank. The step up to "hardcore-raiding" is NOT going to happen unless you are a)"A more needed class" b)"Get your monk kitted out in KoS fabled/full masters/full adorns"........then you have a chance...... My advice....Get the legendary class set/EoF collections jewelry/nizara jewelry and start working through claymore. Master up and join a "medium-raiding" guild....they usually expect the kind of gear i've mentioned. STOP spamming "Looking for raid" -----> You'll just get hardcore raiders laughing at you!! P.S. If you do see a pickup labs raid - by all means try and join. However I would reply "70 monk/80AA mostly masters and well geared....can i join?" Even pick-up leaders don't want deadweight <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Timaarit

07-16-2007, 05:18 AM

Wildfury, you are again wrong. If a lvl 70 guardian popped a message 'lvl 70 guardian looking for a raid', there would be no such response as the 1st poster wrote. Instead if there really was a raid which lacked a guardian or 2nd warrior, he would at least get a tell from the raid leader. But since you dont have a raiding brawler, you really cannot know. So your posts are really not helpful.

Wildfury77

07-16-2007, 05:19 AM

If you follow my route - gear up, get raid experience. Then SoE do improve (miracle!) monks raiding potential then you can then fight your way into a hardcore guild. If you haven't geared up/got experience it won't matter anyway..... Timaarit, please hush. i'm not wrong. My old guild would NEVER take a random guardian or ANY class. Follow my advice. The advice is NOT CLASS DEPENDANT......good raiders don't generally want unknown deadweight!!! To quote Timaarit "Instead if there really was a raid which lacked a guardian or 2nd warrior, he would at least get a tell from the raid leader."......Geez if they lacked a warrior.....good luck with that raid, lets hope its Labs pickup.....

Timaarit

07-16-2007, 05:29 AM

<cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you follow my route - gear up, get raid experience. Then SoE do improve (miracle!) monks raiding potential then you can then fight your way into a hardcore guild. If you haven't geared up/got experience it won't matter anyway..... Timaarit, please hush. i'm not wrong. My old guild would NEVER take a random guardian or ANY class. Follow my advice. The advice is NOT CLASS DEPENDANT......good raiders don't generally want unknown deadweight!!! </blockquote>Sigh, reading comprehension please. I did write in 'sent a tell at least', that is very far from your strawman about random guardian. Also your idea requires that SOE really does improve monks. Of which there is absolutely no evidence of them doing. You see one of the devs said that he will be making good changes on brawler AA's since his friend knows the class well. And what happened? Only good change was for Crane Sweep. So much for that knowledge. And since when have pickup raids been good raids by default? BTW following your route would require making a warrior... You also seem to presume that the 1st poster doesn't have raiding experience, you really cant know that so you are making a strawman again.

Zooce

07-16-2007, 06:30 AM

Yes, the original poster is spot on.I'm so sorry you have spent so much time playing your monk, with the justifiable expectation that you would be at least as equally requested for raids as other classes, only to find that you're really not.I too have experienced the same frustrations, as have many other monks. It confuses me why the software vendor does not balance the attractiveness of monks for raiding with other classes just a little bit, give us some grp buffs or ways to improve tanking for off-tanking or something.So, you're not alone. Perhaps we will be listened to eventually, we need to keep the pressure on. Zooce.

Cirth_Beer

07-16-2007, 10:16 AM

Syke@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>Sadly life isn't fair and it has become clear that SOE doesn't want <strike>know how </strike>to improve the situation.</blockquote> I fixed your sentence <img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

SykeAuttic

07-16-2007, 12:51 PM

LOL! I was being a little too generous I guess...I can forgive ignorance...but if it truly is a willful disregard of their customers...well...

Donte

07-16-2007, 02:30 PM

I play a 70 Dirge, 70 Monk and a 70 Brigand. The Dirge and Brig with emphasis on Dirge are always wanted for a raid. I practically have to beg my guild to let me bring my Monk and she only gets into "farm" raids where they can afford a sub par tank/dps/utility like my Monk. Does she do decent damage? Yes. Does she bring respectabe group buffs? No. Master Haste is only 22 for the group. Thats our one and only gorup buff. Can she off tank? No, not any longer than my Brig can off tank. Our heal is a joke for a viable raid use in the fact that the reuse is so long. a Simple solution to make Monks/Bruisers raid useful is to make our effects work against epics (ie Stun/stifle/interrupt) In my opinion that's an easy change for SOE that has no effect on our soloing or single grouping and thus keep other classes from calling the "Nerf bat" What do you fellow EQ'rs think? Any other ideas that would make us raid useful without asking for bats?

IronHydra

07-16-2007, 02:38 PM

I agree... Why not just make use be able to stun the epic's... then we would have a good use. Not sure why they havnt already done this, I mean we are suppose to be brawlers which use their body to overpower targets. Part of overpowering be melee... is doing massive damage-stuns. Or we are just like a weak scout with good soloing abilities.

Kaoru

07-16-2007, 03:12 PM

Theres actually 2 threads dedicated to such changes on the "In Testing Feedback" forums

Couching

07-16-2007, 04:01 PM

<cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Firstly ANY CLASS SPAMMING "70 xxxxxxx looking or Raid" is not going to get invited to any of the decent raids....(maybe to a Labs pickup, MoA, etc .) Speaking as an ex-raider (now pvping up to 70) 1) A good raid team - knows their members, usually just takes guildmates. 2) A random guy of unknown ability is NOT a good plan. 3) Most raid guilds have their own looting system...... If my old guild was taking someone randomly spamming in chat - it would be on a trial with no-looting privileges - on the understanding they JOIN the guild if everyone is happy. As a "new-raider" you should be able to join a non-hardcore to "medium" raiding guild if you have reasonable gear and 50%+ masters. These guilds will happily take monks/bruisers/anyone who wants to help them master the KoS raidzones. AND you will contribute!! A monk with twin calamities/master skills in a Medium-raiding guild will be relatively high on the parse.....AND an adequate tank. The step up to "hardcore-raiding" is NOT going to happen unless you are a)"A more needed class" b)"Get your monk kitted out in KoS fabled/full masters/full adorns"........then you have a chance...... My advice....Get the legendary class set/EoF collections jewelry/nizara jewelry and start working through claymore. Master up and join a "medium-raiding" guild....they usually expect the kind of gear i've mentioned. STOP spamming "Looking for raid" -----> You'll just get hardcore raiders laughing at you!! P.S. If you do see a pickup labs raid - by all means try and join. However I would reply "70 monk/80AA mostly masters and well geared....can i join?" Even pick-up leaders don't want deadweight <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Your reply didn't match the play style of most casual players. They don't want to be raiders and they don't care you have master or adp3 spell or not. The reality is there are a lot of pick up raids for KoS content. From MoA, Lab to DT. There were 7 pick up lab raids in crushbone in the weekend. However, even there are a lot of pick up raids. Brawler are most unwelcome since we are notorious of sub-par in both tanking and dps. Whenever you sent a tell, they told you "hold a sec". They won't invite you until they can't fill the raid. Brawlers are always bench players. For example, I was bored one day and joined a pick up raid. What makes me annoyed is a swashy. He did 300 dps zonewide with his uber lv52 weapon even he is lv70. A lot of dps classes did less than 400 dps. Though, no body care. Why? Since casual players didn't run ACT, they don't parse. They invited players to raid by class rather than how well geared or how well skilled you are. Plate tank, scouts and mages have much easier life to get in pick up raids. Who care how much damage you did, as long as you are rogue, you must be mean in dps. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Suraklin

07-16-2007, 04:57 PM

Well I played EQOA where Monk was a melee class not a tank class. I never played EQ1 so was kinda baffled when Monk was considered a tank class in EQ2. In EQOA Monk kicked major butt in a group but can't compete with most of the other dps classes in EQ2. Monk/Bruiser seems to be the red headed step child of the tank classes in terms of survivabilty. Seems like SOE made too many classes to balance them all right. Just hope they don't decide to do an NGE to this game and drop it down to 12 classes so they can "fix" the classes. SOE has a hard time learning from past mistakes though.

Morrolan V

07-16-2007, 05:01 PM

What's interesting here is that just about everyone is right (except the person who said that Guardians would have an easier time getting into a pickup raid -- a raid needs two tanks, and if they are picking up their main tank, RUN, do not walk, to the exit).I particularly agree with Couching -- people tend to fill raids based on the CLASS, rather than the PLAYER. A fully fabled, fully adorned Monk with 100AA who knows his or her <a href="mailto:s#@t" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">s#}t</a> is going to wipe the floor with a swashy or a wizard in crafted gear that is just mashing buttons. Of course, by definition, in pickup raids it's awfully tough to figure out which is which, so invites get sent based on class potential.Which brings me to the crux of the issue. In the top end raid environment, every class in the game has higher potential, gear and skill equal, than brawlers. The DPS classes will do far more zone-wide DPS. The plate tanks will outtank us (indeed - will be ABLE to tank). Each healer class has unique abilities and can fulfil its main role (healing). The support classes (Bards and Chanters) have like 1000x the group utility.So, where does that leave us? A fix is needed.My suggestion is to turn up the volume by about 3x on the impact of our AA abilities, and make there be TRADEOFFS on DPS vs. tanking vs. utility. Introduce AA lines that would put us on par with top end DPS classes for DPS, but at the cost of lowered tankability. Introduce other lines that would allow us to tank at least as well as Crusaders, but not do scout class DPS. Introduce debuff and/or group buff lines that would allow us more group and raid utility, but at the cost of some of our dps and or tanking. I don't expect (nor should any of us) that we will be able to tank like guardians and DPS like assassins at the same time. But would it be so bad to allow us to choose (permanently) between coming close to one or the other? As it stands today, berzerkers have this ability WITHOUT any permanent tradeoffs. They can pickup a sword and shield, go into defensive stance, and tank raids, or they can grab a two hander, swap to offensive stance, and put out top fighter DPS. They also have more and better group buffs than brawlers.Monks and Bruisers are among the top solo classes in the game - great for leveling and well balanced for heroic content. Many other classes, though, are as good for soloing and still have specialized top-end potential that makes them desired and useful for a high end raid force. The current situation simply is not well balanced.

Nerill

07-17-2007, 02:21 AM

Um, Wildfury77, I think you completely missed the OP's point. I don't think he was asking for advice on how to get into a raiding guild. I think he was pointing out how badly and unwanted we are as a class when it comes to raiding. Unless my reading comprehension is messed up. But I am pretty sure I understood his point while you sort of missed it.

Wildfury77

07-17-2007, 07:27 AM

Timaarit

07-17-2007, 07:57 AM

<cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Banzai@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>Um, Wildfury77, I think you completely missed the OP's point. I don't think he was asking for advice on how to get into a raiding guild. I think he was pointing out how badly and unwanted we are as a class when it comes to raiding. Unless my reading comprehension is messed up. But I am pretty sure I understood his point while you sort of missed it. </blockquote>Nope...i got that point. Just pointing out that most classes are unlikely to get into a decent raid by spamming chat. The odd labs pick-up sure....... Most medium-raiding guilds would take him if he followed my method -----> i'm not denying that he will struggle to get into a hardcore guild as "less-needed class"......BUT they rarely recruit ANY fighter class: Brawlers and Crusaders in particular. I totally agree with you that its ridiculous that platetanks have more uncontested avoidance, group buffs AND zerkers more DPS! Thats not what i'm talking about though!!! </blockquote>No you didn't. The point was that if basically any other class besides a brawler says in the public channels that they are looking for a raid, they will not get the response the 1st poster got. As for getting into a raiding guild, no matter how hard you work your reputation as a brawler, you will not get into one if they have even one brawler on their roster. You probably wont get into one even if they have none. So your first post is so totally irrelevant that it is very obvious you missed the point.

Prothos

07-17-2007, 09:25 AM

<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=370104" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=370104</a>Fellow brawlers we feel your pain. Please also refer to this post in the Bruiser section.

IronHydra

07-17-2007, 11:57 AM

The fact that monks are left out of the Higher-end raiding makes me feel left out... I made a brawler so I could dish out some good DPS like back in EQ1. But no, brawlers do not seem to fit into the higher end raiding at all. The reason I roled a brawler was to do DPS I wish it would say somethiung like Brawlers are not needed in higher end raiding so I would have roled a scout... This angers me because i put a good amount of time into my monk and now he is basicly usless. This will most likely cause me to re-role because I dont like soloing and apparently thats all they are good for...

pootski

07-17-2007, 01:52 PM

I 3 box with the characters you see in my signature. Guess which one never gets invited into even guild raids. All are fully mastered and all are fabled/legendary geared.

XaroXethanotos

07-17-2007, 04:12 PM

People who haven't played a monk to 70 or raided with one don't understand how truly bad off they are. I played a monk in EQ1 for close to 4 years and started a monk in EQ2 when my guild moved over to EQ2. My guild is a close group of hardcore players and we rarely add new people to the guild. I only say this because it's probably the only reason we have a monk in the guild. I am the only brawler in the guild. After leveling to 70 and seeing how bad off the class really was, I started a Defiler and leveled it to 70. The Defiler added FAR more value to my guild and I switched my main. In the meantime, I have also leveled a Necro and a Berzerker to 70.My monk is now fully fabled simply because I've been able to loot rotting brawler gear from our raids, and I know that my guild would still prefer that I play my Necro or Berzerker (both in nice gear but not fully fabled) if I went with an alt for a night. My Necro is a dps machine and my Berzerker can out-tank my monk easily in lesser gear. Our best, and class-defining, ability is to play dead. This is all you need to know about the class.

yusukekuwabara

07-17-2007, 04:40 PM

In response to the statement that Monks can get into hardcore guilds, you are sorely wrong. All of the guilds that kill Avatars, usually have 1 bruiser and no monk. And if they have a monk they will not recruit another. So the fact that the only monks that have access to avatar gear are alts or the lucky monk here or there that has been with the guild since launch is a pretty sad one. And yes a monk can get into a casual/ medium raiding guild, but what about the monks that want avatar gear?

Taiken

07-17-2007, 08:50 PM

Banzai@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>Um, Wildfury77, I think you completely missed the OP's point. I don't think he was asking for advice on how to get into a raiding guild. I think he was pointing out how badly and unwanted we are as a class when it comes to raiding. Unless my reading comprehension is messed up. But I am pretty sure I understood his point while you sort of missed it. </blockquote> Yep, this was my point... Just last night I've seen a few spams by others to join a raid.. I posted my "I'm a 70 monk, very well equipped and knowledgable about the game.. " No one responded to me.. But to the other ones.. it was "K hold a sec". So I sent a tell... "No we dont need a monk sorry". This is not fair to the consumer, not at all... The consumer has paid a monthly charge to play the game, so we should incure some losses with playing the game.. But making a sub-par class not needed by others in a team oriented environment makes the monk class a rip off.. It's misleading to read the abilities of the monk in the class selection, that we turn out bodies into weapons, we dodge attacks... That's [Removed for Content].. We deserve to be compensated in some way for this.. SOE doesn't think this is a big problem.. WELL it is.. I dont want to make another class, I like the monk class, the other classes may be of interest to others.. But I like the idea of a monk being in a game.. AND you make the monk a total sissy?.. We can't fight well? We can't defend well? We cannot care for others well?.. [Removed for Content] are you guys at SOE doing? Why do we pay a monthly charge for this jackshit.. THIS issue should have been addressed in our last game update.. And so far by the looks of it, the next live update won't have anything to do with this issue either. Thank you all for your contributions to this thread, and thanks to those of you who share the same misleading information SOE gives to those who choose the monk class.. They really jipped us on just about everything. We only have two taunts, one rescue, and on threat over time at a small amount.. So tanking is risky for the DPSERSTHE only way we can do critical damage.. Is if we AIM all our gear, spells, food, potions to STR... Only then are we actually seen as a DPSER.. But we can't off tank.. and an assassin/caster does 12k in one hit.. YOU KNOW WHAT REALLY PISSES ME OFF?.... They give us devistation fist.. OUR ONLY CRAZY SPELL! And guess what?.. IT CANNOT BE USED AGAINST A HEROIC MOB?.. [Removed for Content] is that?.. Seriously?.. since when dose a heroic mob ever have a non heroic among them?.. and even then, a caster can wipe them out in one hit to.. Devistation a cool spell that had potential is useless beyond level 40. I want my money back, I want my time back.. Most of all, I want SOE to notice how bad of a job they did in the field they say they specialize in.. Taiken. (Thanks again for all those who posted and contributed and felt the same frustration I am facing.. No thanks to that one guy who tried to explain how to join a raiding guild or w/e.. That's no the point I was making and your advice doesn't work with the current situation with the monk class's total lack of development.)

Novusod

07-18-2007, 05:05 AM

I am a fairly hard core EQ2 player and have leveled 3 toons to 70 and raided with each of them. Of my 70s the brawler is by far the weakest and boarderline useless raiding class there is. We all know the reasons: can't tank, sub-par dps, no utility worth mentioning. I had always somewhat assumed inspite of these problems the class was really SoE's homage to the casual player. It is a class that is very easy to get into and solo normal mobs and do solo oriented quests and zones but can't do much else. It was not ment to be played hard core. Yeah it was a lame rationality but if the casuals liked the class it was my fault for taking the game too seriously and after all I had two other hard core toons to play with. Such a line a thinking is a trap though because even the most causal player eventually makes it to 70 and after playing an awesome class in levels 1 to 69 only to have nothing to do at level 70 is a real slap in the face be it hard core or casual. The OP has every right to be PO'd as do we all.

EQ2Luv

07-18-2007, 03:53 PM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a fairly hard core EQ2 player and have leveled 3 toons to 70 and raided with each of them. Of my 70s the brawler is by far the weakest and boarderline useless raiding class there is. We all know the reasons: can't tank, sub-par dps, no utility worth mentioning. I had always somewhat assumed inspite of these problems the class was really SoE's homage to the casual player. It is a class that is very easy to get into and solo normal mobs and do solo oriented quests and zones but can't do much else. It was not ment to be played hard core. Yeah it was a lame rationality but if the casuals liked the class it was my fault for taking the game too seriously and after all I had two other hard core toons to play with. Such a line a thinking is a trap though because even the most causal player eventually makes it to 70 and after playing an awesome class in levels 1 to 69 only to have nothing to do at level 70 is a real slap in the face be it hard core or casual. The OP has every right to be PO'd as do we all. </blockquote>Indeed, I'd say he has more right to be PO'd. I'm pretty hardcore as well, and am now officially tired of waiting to be fixed. I'm rolling a warrior alt and expect to have him to 70 before RoK. The OP doesn't have the time for this and so is truly stuck with a borked class. My only quandry is whether to make it a guard or a zerker.... 8^P

Taiken

07-19-2007, 07:46 PM

I need your support brawlers, please follow this link:<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=372059�" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...59�</a>

NorrinRadd

07-19-2007, 08:36 PM

Our best, and class-defining, ability is to play dead. This is all you need to know about the class. ~ Xaro I often browse the forums & read every post or topic that piques my interest,Xaro I was holding my stomach from laughter at that line.<img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

githyanki

07-19-2007, 10:02 PM

Yep i've given up on my monk. I loved him as i leveled him up to 70 but now he is sitting on my load screen as i play my wizzy. Once i hit about t6 it was obvious that monks were not quite what they should be but i figured it was just that i lacked fabled gear. But that notion quickly became flawed once i hit 70 and the only groups i could find where mentor lower lvl grind groups. So i'm enjoying feeling useful to my guild as we are ramping up old content raids and i've been thinking of rolling up a mystic or dirge. Monks are at least useful for a few things. He's great at harvesting and looking cool as he plays dead.I'm hoping that eventually that the brawler classes get some kind of useful fix but don't expect it. Certainly don't hold your breathe for it either. After all if you roll up another toon your still paying SoE their monthly fee and they are still lining the pockets. Other people have mentioned that monks are great at doing solo work for the casual player. Think single A baseball. Once you get your feet wet you move on to a useful class.

Deathspell

07-20-2007, 08:07 AM

Also, you can see all those brawlers in fabled gear, which means nothing really. How many times haven't I seen people (including myself) /camp to their brawler during raid to loot the fabled item and then /camp back to their real raid toon.... OFCOURSE this applies to other alts/classes as well, but it's very very applicable for brawlers... a painful conclusion

Xanthar

08-05-2007, 01:19 AM

<cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote> Nope...i got that point.</blockquote> No, you still didn't. The point was well made that it was the RESPONSES to him being a Monk in particular that upset him. Whether you chose to believe it or not, most classes can ask for a pick up raid (whether or not you think it's the best path) and be welcomed in right away. The fact that Monks are told to "wait a sec" while they try to fill the raid with others is part of what the OPer was saying.The comments he quoted from 70 channel were made TO a Monk ABOUT the Monk class. Focus on that and forget what path would be better, because I have news for you, my Monk is Fabled geared, nearly all Mastered, and I can't think of one argument as to why he should be in our guild's raids over other classes. So, it really has little to do with HOW you get there, because I have everything you say and still can't justify myself into a raid. I Rescue when I can, use Avoidance, take hits for people when they pet pull, heal, and do everything I can to earn a spot, but there's so little there it's virtually impossible to beat out nearly every other class (except Paladin) for a raid spot.With the latest changes it's better, but not enough. I spoke to our raid leader and we decided the raid deaggro is way too underpowered to be useful. The cast speed buff for a group can be given by other classes who have more to offer.OPer... I agree... even AFTER the raid deaggro and cast speed increase. To even USE my raid deaggro I have to drop MORE of my DPS and put it in things I never use on raids like taunts and such. UGH!!!

Fleaba

08-05-2007, 03:52 AM

IronHydra wrote: <blockquote>I agree... Why not just make use be able to stun the epic's... then we would have a good use. Not sure why they havnt already done this, I mean we are suppose to be brawlers which use their body to overpower targets. Part of overpowering be melee... is doing massive damage-stuns. Or we are just like a weak scout with good soloing abilities. </blockquote> Actually, back in the T5 days of the game, Monks could stun mobs, more importantly we could stifle them for 10 seconds. If you could round up 3 monks and get your timing down perfectly, you could basically have a raid mob doing nothing but auto attack through out a whole fight. Never the less they nerfed the heck out of it.... Now that I think of it, I remember when monks where THE raid tank to use.....prior to avoidance nerfage. Not sure how many server firsts happened with a monk MTing the mobs in T5 days, (probably the same amount that scouts had tanking raid mobs at that juncture in avoidance mechanics) but I'm sure there were quite a few. They could give us stun and stifle back without monks abusing it, just make the raid mobs immune to stun and stifle for x amount of time after they've been stunned/stifled. There again, Coercers would probably [I cannot control my vocabulary] about monks taking over one of there jobs....I know our strat on a few MMIS mobs relies heavily on stuns and stifles being used at a key moment in the fight..... I've never had my [I cannot control my vocabulary] about monks revolve around dps, I'd roll a real dps class if I wanted to be dps. I'm satisfied with monks in that matter. After seeing what it's like in the MT group on many occasions recently, I've found that the monks survivability as a raid MT is VERY impressive in said MT group with MT buffs and the mitigation equation change a few months back. Are monks underpowered or overpowered?? I know our guild MT says rather often that he feels that guardians are over powered as tanks....I'm not going to argue that point. I will say that if they gave monks the same passive agro generation that the zerkers and guardians have, we would be some serious contenders in the roll of raid tank.... Maybe SOE's whole idea with our active/aggressive means of gaining hate is to be the off tank that has been building agro off to the side and can play rescue the raid when need be. However a second guard can do that just fine plucking a mob off the raid force after the MT goes down with his 3 or so insta hate gain skills....so that idea is null and void... I've never, ever had a problem getting invited to one of our guild's raids. Is it the person behind the character or the character they want? I don't know. All I know is that Fleaball Le'Itchy (my monk) has been around since 3 months after launch and every raid I've ever been in I've tried to convince myself that I'm contributing something worthy to the raid (stun/stifling the mob didn't last long before the nerf bat hit it) .....unfortunately I've never managed to do that........

ganjookie

08-05-2007, 07:41 PM

<cite>Taiken wrote:</cite><blockquote>First off, IF by some freaking glorious miricle a dev reads this post.. Then by god, I am sure it's just as rare as a mythical.. So if you are reading this.. Then please take the following rant / complaint as a serious matter.. because right now, I am NOT enjoying the game.. How many of you have spent a month trying to get to 70?.. Well.. I've spent about 6 months getting my character 70... With the schedule of work and family/friends.. I am surprised I even reached 70. Since level sixty, people have always said.. Wait till you're level 70 and you'll get to raid and etc.. Well I reached 70 a month a go now.. and you know what?.. There is NO respect for monks for groups or raids.. I AM SICK OF IT.. DEVS DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT... In 60-69 channel.. I'll post up.. "70 monk looking for a raid". The response? Azura says: "Since when do monks/brusiers? Raid?.. Monks/Bruisers don't raid" Azura says: "Monks and brusiers are useless in raids.. They don't contribute anything" Taiken Says: "We contribute a lot to a raid.. Every class does.. We can heal the MT, and keep him alive, we can tsunami and rescue the tank if he is about to die, and we can do critical damage when we need to"Strago says: "Monks only do "OK" damage.. They contribute pretty much nothing to a raid" Other people quote: "The reason why monks aren't needed is because they do a lousy job tanking, and their DPS isn't that great.. People rather get a good plate tank and a high damage assassin or caster instead" (That's right, I quoted you guys.. Got a problem? Tough sh*t. I had to deal with you guys not accepting my class as a monk.. )This is a serious problem.. I dont have the time of day to go and make another level 70 character.. I don't want to spend several months just getting to 70 and trying to get the needed gear and spells.. Rediculous. I don't understand why we monks are left behind after EVERY freaking class in the game.. When the monk should seriously be one of the most deadly classes out there.. Look at the history of the monk, the wushu styles the martial arts do critical damage to foes.. Monks in real life master just abotu every weapon known to man.. But we are left using our fists or some dinky katars or something.. WHY don't monks get to use at least ONE sword?.. One Katana?.. Why is our avoidance lower than a plate tank?... MONKS are known to dodge real life attacks, to manouver or block attacks in such a easy motion.. Monks should be respected for what they do.. We can save an entire group with our group FD and we can save ourselves and raise a healer..We should be able to do impressive damage compared to an assassin or a ranger.. We should be able to disable our targets or something.. this is totally not fair.. PEOPLE have spoken, the monk class is the least favored class in the game.. We're not wanted in groups, in raids or in those high end guilds... The only people who like monks are people who enjoy the player instead of the class.. Otherwise we'r ejust an accessory.. MAKE US NEEDED, PEOPLE NEED A HEALER, THEY NEED A MEZZER, THEY NEED A HIGH END DPS, THEY NEED A CASTER, THEY NEED A TANK..THEY NEED COB, WHERE DO WE FALL INTO THE MIX?.. FIX THIS, THIS IS NOT FAIR!</blockquote><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> you sound like quite an angry monk. You shoulda gone Bruiser :p

Femke

08-06-2007, 03:59 AM

Well, I my humble opinion those "raid guilds" who don't want a certain class in their raids are thinking a bit too highly of themselves... and if they leave guildmembers out of raids because of their class they should be deeply ashamed.That said, I join on regular base raids (once per week at least). How? Because a guild I am freinded to think raids are fun... for everyone!Yesterday we went for the Gates and Lockjaw (the first was not a complete success, but I had lots of fun <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). Anyway, I was very suprised to see that I belonged more then once to the group who did most damage (made me feel good ^^ ).And my Tsunami-skill had proofed to be very usefull to pull high-level mobs to a more accessable spot. And we all know the uses FD to pop mob and as life-saver.Monk are not useless.... even not at raids.Femke.

BChizzle

08-06-2007, 05:14 AM

<cite>Femke wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, I my humble opinion those "raid guilds" who don't want a certain class in their raids are thinking a bit too highly of themselves... and if they leave guildmembers out of raids because of their class they should be deeply ashamed.That said, I join on regular base raids (once per week at least). How? Because a guild I am freinded to think raids are fun... for everyone!Yesterday we went for the Gates and Lockjaw (the first was not a complete success, but I had lots of fun <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). Anyway, I was very suprised to see that I belonged more then once to the group who did most damage (made me feel good ^^ ).And my Tsunami-skill had proofed to be very usefull to pull high-level mobs to a more accessable spot. And we all know the uses FD to pop mob and as life-saver.Monk are not useless.... even not at raids.Femke.</blockquote>Yes we are great on raids for 2 expansions ago.

Femke

08-06-2007, 06:22 AM

<cite>BChizzle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes we are great on raids for 2 expansions ago. </blockquote>Well, as long I can have a lot of fun with my friends, I don't need to be best. "FUN" is the keyword for me... Femke.

Xanthar

08-06-2007, 09:34 AM

It's all fun until you fail time after time after time. There are times when the guild asks me to play my Monk, and I think that's a good indicator as to about how useful Monks are. Over the last 60 days (and we raid 5 nights a week), my Monk has under 20% raid attendance and my Dirge over 80%, and that number is still shifting to the Dirge.The raids I'm speaking about are Emerald Halls, Throne of New Tunair, Mistmore Inner Sanctum, Freethinkers Hidehout, Cheldrake, Deathtoll, and other zones of this nature. My Monk is far better geared than my Dirge, plus my guild was used to having me there as my Monk, yet I am clearly switching to my Dirge out of benefit to the raid. This has been a gradual "as needed/wanted" phase out of my Monk and phase in of my Dirge. There are still under 20% (so far) of zones that my guild feels my Monk is more useful than my Dirge, and these numbers reflect having 2 Dirges in raid and no Monks. Even with 1 Dirge already in raid, it is still more meaningful to bring my Dirge over 80% of the time than my Monk.

Raidi Sovin'faile

08-06-2007, 10:02 AM

Yeah, the problem isn't that raid guilds are ditching people who play Monks (well, some might be... but not all of course), it's that other classes played by the same competent person benefits the raid more. And I'm not even talking about the raid leader, or guild, or raid people in general telling you that you HAVE to do something. I've been on raids where I was playing my Brawler, and the raid was having a hard time of it.. and I decided to switch to my Coercer to help them out, and it was like night and day. From a failing raid that was wiping on named content, to a raid force that blew through the content. Until something changes, there will NEVER be a situation that happens like this for adding a Monk or Bruiser to the raid. However, every single other class in the game has SOMETHING to bring that can have that large an impact if it's currently missing.

Couching

08-06-2007, 11:33 AM

All what I can say is that don't play dirge as your alt. Otherwise, no chance to play brawlers as your main in raid. <img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Dirge/troub are most useful classes in raids. I can only suggest you to tell your guild, recruit another dirge!

Xanthar

08-06-2007, 03:24 PM

Then I will be asking the guild to recruit myself right out of a raid spot. LOLWhen we need Feign Death I play my Monk. Those times are too few and far between to be of any use full time, and there are so many classes with FD now, and the tinkered item, it's not a niche anymore.

PsyStorm

08-14-2007, 05:39 PM

I'm not much of a poster, in fact I think this is my first time, but I would like to thank all of you for taking the time to point out this sad state for monks. I have a 70 Monk, the first toon I have ever gotten to 70, even though I have been playing to game off and on since the beginning. The first toon I ever made was a SK, which everyone dumped on back in the day as being useless, but I refused to give her up b/c I loved the cute horse (yes, I am such a girl), and I was determined to make her successful. She was never wanted for raids (or in groups) at the time. Sony has made that situation somewhat better. Then I made a Fury, whom, at the time, everyone dumped on as well... Wardens were the greatest things on Earth!! But I hung in there saying, "Furies are cool too!!" Sony has made that situation somewhat better. I've made my share of mage types, but found myself a button masher and didn't enjoy it. ((no offense to anyone who plays them, it's just not for me)) I have an assassin I play now and again, but it gives me a headache trying to figure out where to stand all the time!! ((again, that's just me)) I even made a coercer thinking, "They'll love me on raids!!" But I fall asleep every time I play her. ((sorry, I really love having you in a group, but I don't know how you do it!!)) And then I found my Monk. She is the most fun toon I have. Getting her to 70 was a pleasure. She can tank; she can DPS. With her tanking, my husband healing (Warden), and my brother DPSing (Brig), we can blow through any quest, dungeon, or instance. If you add a plate tank or another DPS, it's even better!! Sony I feel the Monk love!! Until I do some playing on my own... Then feel the Monk hate. I get a tell, "Want to tank Unrest?" I reply, "Sure!" **PAUSE** "How many hps do you have??" "uh...bout 6,500." "nm" "I don't even have any of the group buffs on... you didn't even ask my mit or avoid..." nothing This is just one of innumerable examples. My husband, the Warden, gets tells all the time: "Want to come to Niz?" "Want to come to Labs?" "Want to come to EH?" "Want to come to PoA?" Want to know how I get on raids or into killer instances? Husband's response, "Sure, if my wife can come." Reply, "What is she?" "Lvl 70 Monk." One of two responses: "I guess that's OK." OR "nm" I only get to tank if we form a group ourselves. Most of time ppl quit when they find out a Monk is the MT. I've posted on chat, "lvl 70 Monk lfg," and have had ppl respond on the channel, "Good luck w/ that." At best, we are a last resort filler DPS. My best advise? Unlike that WildFury guy, mine will be useful... Build up some loyalties with ppl on your server who form pick-up raids or invite ppl to fill spots on their guild raids. You'll at least get to go now and then w/ some friends, though not as much as you had hoped. And when Sony makes the update that pumps up Monks, I will be able to post: Sony has made that situation somewhat better. And I will move on to the class that the update ruins... Until then, happy soloing to all you Monks, and best wishes to getting in on a pick-up raid, if nothing else.

sokil

08-21-2007, 11:43 PM

Wow, this thread makes me sad. I rolled a monk becuase I have only ever played a healer and wnated to try to solo more often. I had hoped to eventually find a T7 guild that raids and pvp's only. Guess I have a slim chance of that. When I raid with my fury there was seldom a monk onboard but I didn't think anything of it. Looking back, I see that they were no tneeded. Tsunami was what was asked for but now i understand others can do it just the same (swashie? not sure of this ifnormation is correct but its what I hear). Guess I can plan on soloing what contant I can until I can find a raid to join. I love my monk and find him to be a lot of fun so I will take him to lvl 70 but I must admit my healer is better at pvp and more wanted in a raid (evne now when durids are a dime a dozen). Funny that I tried to roll a troub but hated him so much I never play him. he was going to be my raid invite but doubt I will ever get him to 70 where as my monk will hit 70 as soon as I have the time to play him.

BChizzle

08-22-2007, 06:52 PM

So anyhow with out casting haste buff now raids will have use for 1 monk. Seeing as there aren't that many of us left that raid I think we will all be good.

Taiken

08-23-2007, 02:11 AM

That's a very small utility compared to what everyone else can bring really... I rather have two bards and wait for cob or soemthing.. (donno if that works in a raid like that.. To be honest with you.. You'll soon get to a point where you just stop caring. You just forget about raiding, then you forget about groups, and then you forget about quests... Then you eventually just stop caring about the game... and that's when you will start to wonder. "why do I pay for this thing monthly when Im not happy with it..?"That's where I am at.. and I'm pretty sure I'm following the same path as many other monks out there. While I thank whoever revived my original post.. There is no sense in actually doing it. The developers just dont really give a [Removed for Content] with the monk class. According to them, we are the best tank around with awesome uber dps..A little later on, I found out.. (which I should have caught on to this earlier). Any changes towards the development of the game is pretty mucb built off what certain players say about the game to certain contacts.. The rest is major public demand.. But so far, even though there is the demand for change in the monk class.. SOE still is oblivious to it, or is just waiting for the last few of us to blow over and forget about it.Remember, they are a million dollar company... You really think they are concerned with the fact you're unhappy with your monk class?.. Yeah right.G'luck to the rest of yall.. I give up. *throws in towel*-Taiken

Herme

08-23-2007, 06:59 AM

It's harder, thats what i love about the class. Being able to take a monk out and out-tank plate tanks and blow people's minds. If you don't want the challenge, by all means roll something else. But for those of us who do continue to shine and tank i say well done. You have my admiration.

Kota

08-23-2007, 02:50 PM

nothing wrong with a challenge, but i bet you can find a grig/assassin/swash that can tank just as good as your monk. check out their aa lines. avoidance adorns and stuff make it even easier for ppl to tank. nothing special about monks tanking. scouts can tank just as well.

Jobeson

08-23-2007, 05:06 PM

The funny thing about scout tanking is they actually have tank trees... where monks get... avoidance woot!

EQ2Luv

08-23-2007, 05:12 PM

<cite>Jobeson wrote:</cite><blockquote>The funny thing about scout tanking is they actually have tank trees... where monks get... avoidance woot!</blockquote>Yea this is funny to the point of not being amusing. I would kill to have a bottom line AA that increases mit by 400 (or more--my memory is hazy) and boosts uncontested avoidance. Not to mention a proc when hit hate buff.

Jobeson

08-23-2007, 06:01 PM

<cite>EQ2Luv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jobeson wrote:</cite><blockquote>The funny thing about scout tanking is they actually have tank trees... where monks get... avoidance woot!</blockquote>Yea this is funny to the point of not being amusing. I would kill to have a bottom line AA that increases mit by 400 (or more--my memory is hazy) and boosts uncontested avoidance. Not to mention a proc when hit hate buff. </blockquote>They get 15% armor bonus in defensive stance so the better gear the more mit they get in the end. On this note most monks do suck for raiding. The class takes a very quick person to do crazy things in an instant. Most monks are not up to saving the MT with an intercede then 6k+ heal when needed or tsunami rescues ect so in this aspect they are only there for dps. To top it off with monks being as gear dependent as we are to get above average dps our weapons need to be pretty good. For our weapons to be pretty good we need to get in raids auto attack does 50% or more of our overall dps depending on group setup and weapons. Auto attack dps can break 1100 dps in a raid with 2 brigs and the monk having a coercer and inquisitor this is without having contested weapons and armor or the monks favorite buffer... a dirge

Kota

08-23-2007, 07:14 PM

let's not forget about the facts that a brig can add 13% to their hp, and spec for taunts that are better than ours at m1. a ranger/assass can add 12% to their hp. we can add a whopping 4% if we wanna dump 8aa into it. and our hp buff...wait, we are the only fighter class w/o a hp buff. doii

Herme

08-23-2007, 07:56 PM

<cite>Sullen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>let's not forget about the facts that a brig can add 13% to their hp, and spec for taunts that are better than ours at m1. a ranger/assass can add 12% to their hp. we can add a whopping 4% if we wanna dump 8aa into it. and our hp buff...wait, we are the only fighter class w/o a hp buff. doiiHonestly I think this is entirely situational and put in to give guilds a better chance of defeating that raid mob in MMIS that is immune to taunts. I don't know why their AA taunts are better than our m1 taunts though, that I would say, needs some looking into. </blockquote><cite>Sullen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>nothing wrong with a challenge, but i bet you can find a grig/assassin/swash that can tank just as good as your monk. check out their aa lines. avoidance adorns and stuff make it even easier for ppl to tank. nothing special about monks tanking. scouts can tank just as well.I don't really care if I can find a scout that can tank jsut as well as I can. They have higher mit with their chain than I do and do more DPS easier than I do. I remember lvling my monk back before KoS came out with AAs and having a ranger tank for me. They were doing it before the AA trees, so why not after? </blockquote>If you want me to quote other classes stuff I'm sorry. I'm really rather poorly educated about most scouts, healers and mages. I have 2 monks, a bruiser, 2 guards, a zerker, a dirge and an illusionist. As you can see, I don't get out of the tank classes very much and so far haven't found a reason to try. I don't need to top the parses as a scout, don't like sitting back and healing(puts me to sleep) and can barely play a support class. I like being the one to set the pace, and have control of the group/raid.

Kota

08-23-2007, 08:18 PM

it's ridiculous that scout tanking should even compare to monk tanking. ps: tacticians armor hits like a girl. doesn't require a tank spec'd scout.

Taiken

08-24-2007, 07:04 AM

<cite>Herme wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's harder, thats what i love about the class. Being able to take a monk out and out-tank plate tanks and blow people's minds. If you don't want the challenge, by all means roll something else. But for those of us who do continue to shine and tank i say well done. You have my admiration.</blockquote>You're love of the class isn't shared by everyone. It's true there are people that like this sort of challange.. They are similar to the people who have an obsession at trying to 'fix' a problem that isn't really theirs to begin with..Pretty much, even by your own statements - you have seperated / singled-out / catagorized the monk class as an entity completely different from the general fighter class.. Even you say it's that much of a challange to navigate this class that you would advise others to roll a different class due to the difficulties. So much so, that you even give a token of your admiration to others who can sucessfully navigate the class enough to tank non-raid areas - such as HOF, or Unrest - Areas where the mobs are very tough.. But then again, your average plate tank - with similiar intelligence, equipment and sense of navigation can also tank the areas in question - and yet recieve no admiration or blessings from others. Why is that?... I suppose it's because the distinction between the two classes, are like night and day.. A plate tank has the history of having the ability to tank areas such as that.. So there is no need for admiration for their abilities, as it's expected...However, a monk who can tank the areas in question is regarded with such a high sense of respect and admiration!... The asumption is that the class shouldn't have the ability to tank such an area... It's impossible, it's remarkable.. It's quite simply put.. Quite unheard of.. So much so, that there is even a sentimental reward for the personal achievement.. EVEN though, this is suposed to be a fighter class - a tank class just as the plate tanks... It should be expected.. Understand, there is a problem with this class - a sevre imbalance with the rest of the other classes involved in this game. It may have been a combination of bad luck and such that the monks recieved such harsh treatment in terms of an evolving class. Regardless, the fact that there is a "Challenge" to begin with.. Is proof there are issues with this class.. (And dont be a smart ... And go "all classes in the begining are a challange", I have already taken that into account, and even by your statements - you are an experienced player in "tough" zones"<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />Herme, I do not have anything against you - I just do not have respect for people who do not stand up for the rights of the consumers. You may say that the class is fine, but 95% of the actual monks in this forum alone - all disagree with your "love" of the "challange".. We didn't sign up for that, we didn't pay monthly fees for a challange we weren't aware about. This is a matter of shabby business in the perception that any average consumer will lose out on full game content due to lack of development on the part of the company offering the service to begin with.. IT'S JUST THAT SIMPLE!-Taiken