PLEASE REVAMP PROVISIONER YIELDS... [Archive]

juliatha

07-12-2007, 12:01 AM

Hello, All - I am a lvl 46 Provisioner and I am getting frustrated with the amount of time it takes to make large quantities of food. I like being a provisioner and I like to go out harvesting so I don't want to change crafting skills, but there are some things that really need to be updated, in my opinion. Food is bought and consumed in quantity but can only be made one or two servings at a time. This is messed up. I am one of the provisioners for my guild, plus it is my main source of income in the game, and it is currently taking 45secs to one minute to make 2 pieces of food. I spend many hours each week making stacks of food for my guild and to sell and it cuts horribly into my game playing time. I liken it to ammo - you don't get 1 or 2 arrows when you make them - you get 75 to 100. I am suggesting that there be a reward system as you level. Make the yield 2 to 3 pieces per recipe at lvl 20; 3 to 4 at lvl 30; 4 to5 at lvl 40; 5 to 6 at lvl 50, etc. There should be some way to increase your yield as you progress in levels, as an incentive/reward, because the price of food does not go up in relation to the level of food being made/sold. Also, I level slowly do to the fact that I do not get any XP when making all of the lower lvl food, which for me is currently lvl 10,20 and 30. So I spend lots of time - one stack of ten casseroles, let's say, takes at least 5 minutes (times 10 to feed just one level in the guild bank = at least an hour) and don't progress at all in my tradeskill level. Please, please, please make some changes in this tradeskill area - it is unlike any other tradeskill because of the quatities needed to be crafted and needs some thinking outside the box. Thank you. Any other suggestions from players would also be appreciated and /or votes of support in this matter...

Deson

07-12-2007, 12:49 AM

Ammo gets used in significantly larger quantities than than food. Also a stack of food provides service for 100+ hours of gameplay. No single player in any profession can supply a decent sized group without help or being willing to dedicate the time/effort into it. That's a very good thing for the economics of the game and good for your bottom line because if one person could do it without sacrifice you'd never have to worry about sales because the market would stay bottomed out. Personally I feel that even the current food production borders on excessive.Tradeskilling is a playstyle choice and just like all other choices, you decide what's important to you and adjust accordingly. that also includes asking help from the other guild provisioners or your guildmates to help make it easier to supply. their needs.

Syndic

07-12-2007, 12:55 AM

1suggestion I would have straight off the bat is don't make the lower tier stuff. Stick with the tier your in. If a level 20 guildie wants some food it doesn't hurt them to eat level 40 stuff actually might end up better for them. Also you only need to harvest one tier then and store the resources for the tier. I know that's not your complaint but it will solve your not leveling while making lots of stuff for others, so you'll get something out of it.

KerowynnKaotic

07-12-2007, 01:52 AM

<cite>Syndic wrote:</cite><blockquote>1suggestion I would have straight off the bat is don't make the lower tier stuff. Stick with the tier your in. If a level 20 guildie wants some food it doesn't hurt them to eat level 40 stuff actually might end up better for them. Also you only need to harvest one tier then and store the resources for the tier. I know that's not your complaint but it will solve your not leveling while making lots of stuff for others, so you'll get something out of it. </blockquote> This won't work to the Provisioner or the Buyer's benefit .. IE: T2 Drink "Refuge Island Ice Tea" 5 fuels 1hr 30 mins. costs 20cp per 2. 2silver for a stack. T4 Drink "Wild Child" 5 fuels 1hr 30 mins. costs 2s 75c per 2. 27s 50c for a stack. using the OP's issue of supplying a guildie .. generally the Crafter is either going to foot the entire bill for the item or just ask for Fuel re-comp. So, either the Crafter is out fuel cost or the Guildie is paying premium fuel price for something s/he is only going to get T2 regen/stats out of .. Yes, the Crafter will get EXP out of it (assuming they craft the current tier) .. is that worth the loss of the Fuel ... /shrug. Only the individual in each individual circumstance can answer that. ------ I am and always have been for a slight increase in the yeild on food & drink. I am willing to have the ingredients upped to 4x - 6x as much to be able to get (4) items returned on Pristine. Actually, upping the amount of raw ingredients (except loam & roots) would actually be nice, anyway .. most people, even Provisoners, destroy stacks of various food harvests because they are so much more plentiful than any other raw .. (each tier has a certain something that is more rare but on the other hand each tier has something that is way more plentiful than nessesary) ....I'd like to see the levels given as 1 / 1 / 2 / 4 .. that way you still have to put effort into getting the max returns. Writs would have to be adjusted and so would fuel prices .. because .. I'd rather see the fuel price go up than have to resupply fuel every 1 stack of food/drink completed .. (4) on Pristine isn't "too much" .. but it would get me out of the "kitchen" a bit faster and on to slightly more fun things than continuing to aggravate my CTS and pending Arthritis... As far as rewards on leveling up .. heck .. I want unique racial food recipes that Provisioners can quest for. Maybe 1x every 30 levels a different item. Have the item food/drink item that a Dark Elf Provo can make be different than the Wood Elf Provo .. and so on and so forth .. something a bit different .. 3 stats / 2 stats & resists / 1 larger stat with an effect / etc. Anything to break up the monotony of the current food stats and to give each chef their "own" speciality .. .. but I suppose that is another thread .. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />but ... yeah .. slight provisioner revamp on yields would be nice ...

Syndic

07-12-2007, 03:57 AM

I wouldn't mind a greater yield from the recipes. All mine are still from pre-LU24, yes thats how many I had to make back then to level prov. Just an idea (and I think I may have even read this somewhere else) Why not allow for a bulk version of each recipe.might need some juggling of levels but in the lower to mid part give provs the return 2 recipe and than later give one that returns 10 per recipe but costs say 10 times the fuel/raws, hopefully that would encourage it to only be used by those wanting to just get the thing over with. Maybe make the bulk version 2 to 3 levels after the normal recipe (not sure what to do at the end of each tier though) Pros that I can see - - Food supplying can be made easier, not such a groan when someone asks for a stack of food and you realise your playtime has just gone down the drain. - Hopefully some of those oversupplied resources on the broker would get used up, this also meaning the value of those bushes out in the wilderness would be more likely harvested if their resources were needed. - More pristine bonus for provs because you've just doubled their recipes. Cons that I can see - - The broker will most likely be flooded with food/drink because of the increase rate of production. Although this would be bad for the seller who might be used to making money the buyer would be ecstatic to know there will always be food/drink when they should require it. Although I would hope this would be offset by the increased cost to make, so a seller hoping to make some money might need to stay on the low production version for the lower cost.

Besual

07-12-2007, 04:08 AM

If we let the harvesting out it takes about 2min to make a pristine combine. Pristine = 2 food or drink -> 20min for a stack. Well sometimes you have to run around a bit or tell a dirty joke about gnomes... we round it to 30min to make a stack. This means you can make a stack of food and drinks in a hour. Make the 5h stuff you just created food / drinks lasting over 100h in 1h. Or you could stop concentrate on power crafting (the ~2min per pristine combine) and just make 5h drinks you can craft drinks for 300h+ (3 stacks) in on hour. The ration looks good for me. When you crafting for guild mates at cost it's not to much to ask them to supply the resources.

Calthine

07-12-2007, 04:39 AM

<cite>juliatha wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please, please, please make some changes in this tradeskill area - it is unlike any other tradeskill because of the quatities needed to be crafted and needs some thinking outside the box. Thank you. Any other suggestions from players would also be appreciated and /or votes of support in this matter...</blockquote> Not to belittle your situation... but one ranger can go through 4k arrows in a raid. I made 8000+ arrows tonight and chances are I'll be sold out tomorrow. 80 combines. Gone in a couple hours for a couple of raiding rangers. In 80 combines a provisioner can make 160 5 hour food or drink items. My provisioner can supply all my toons much faster than I can fill four orders for quversfull of arrows!

VolgaDark

07-12-2007, 07:39 AM

psst Juliatha ... your caps are locked ... I'm sure you didn't mean to shout the post title.As to your post .... Sorry to tell you but you are comparing apples and oranges. Arrows versus food/drinks. 100 arrows or 2 drinks/food .... Which will last longer? I'm married to a ranger and I can tell you that there ain't a stack of arrows lasting as long as 1 five hour drink or 1 food much less 2drinks/food. And I'm not even talking raiding ranger, just regular adventuring. I always find it amusing how some provisioners (not talking about you here, just "some" in general) like to point their fingers at woodworkers and alchemist and cry "but but but WW can make 3 totems in one combine while I only get 2 drinks, not fair!" or "alchemists get 10 potions per combine and we only get 2! They are so overpowered while we are the underdogs.../cry /cry /cry." While completely ignoring how much bigger is the food/drink's duration from one combine compared to that of alchemist or woodworker. And the fact that provisioners can make stuff with 3 benefits in one (regen + plus to stat + plus to stat). Hmmm wonder how many combines would it take to make combination of totems and potions to give me same duration and benefits as 5 hour drinks with power regen, wisdom and stamina..... About 20 min to make a stack of food/drinks. Even if you only make 3 hour products it still covers 60 hours! If you make the 5 hour kinds you get 100 hours.... In 20 min of work max! and I'm talking blue and white recipes here, because with grey it should take you lot less time. Am I the only one who don't see Provisioners are "problem" class?

CrypticFirefly

07-12-2007, 09:14 AM

This is a game, not a job. If you are spending more hours in a week crafting food/drink than you like, then stop doing it. It sounds as if your guild may be taking advantage of you-- though of course I know nothing of your individual situation.As for increased yields, you mentioned that you also provision for coin. The law of supply and demand says that if yields go up, supply goes up and prices go down. If you are lucky it would be a wash in terms of income per combine.

Calthine

07-12-2007, 12:23 PM

<cite>VolgaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote>Am I the only one who don't see Provisioners are "problem" class? </blockquote> Nope, me neither. IMO, it's that the classes are all different. There are clear advantages and disadvantages to every class: Sages: 135454624247 pristine bonuses, but every recipe is the same and App's don't sell Woodworkers: three great varieties of stuff that always sells (totems, ammo, tools), but low profit margin for a large time investment. Provisioners: Low yields, but ALWAYS in demand Alchemists: Poisons and Potions! But they require making Ad3's which may or may not sell. etc, etc. How boring would it be if all artisan classes were carbon copies with with different end results? For me, it's all about choices.

dartie

07-12-2007, 12:25 PM

<cite>CrypticFirefly wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is a game, not a job. If you are spending more hours in a week crafting food/drink than you like, then stop doing it. It sounds as if your guild may be taking advantage of you-- though of course I know nothing of your individual situation.</blockquote> Word.My sense from your post is that it's not provisioning that's broken; it's your guild's expectations that may need adjusting.I agree with Syndic's point that you should consider only making food/drink from tiers that still give you XP--even if it is higher than what your guildies need. I understand Kerowyn's point that fuel cost increases dramatically, but I would have no trouble telling my lowbie guildies that I have a responsibility to provide high level food/drink to the higher guildies as quickly as possible--which means not grinding T2 food for zero XP to save myself or my guildies a few silver here and there.If I'm you and my guildies want me to provide food/drink for their L15 characters, they're going to have to a) reimburse me for the fuel cost of L45 food/drink (since that's what I'm grinding at the moment); b) find cheaper stuff on the broker; or c) make their own provisioner.If the game is starting to lose its luster because you are spending too much time cooking, find ways to COOK LESS.

OmniDrac

07-14-2007, 01:14 AM

Speaking from experience as having done this on two separate servers for the top "at the time uber" guilds on the server. You need to put your foot down and stop letting the guild control what you are making and how much you are making. You are the crafter and you are the one spending the time. If your guild cannot understand that you are doing a service and not being a slave to their needs, then you will be unhappy and burn out by the time your reach 70.

Crinaeae

07-14-2007, 04:09 PM

I would love to have a even slightly higher yield for my provisioner. It would help so much to either of the options mentioned, 4 for a pristine or a mass recipe. Please, it would help save time!

Deggials

07-14-2007, 05:09 PM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>juliatha wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please, please, please make some changes in this tradeskill area - it is unlike any other tradeskill because of the quatities needed to be crafted and needs some thinking outside the box. Thank you. Any other suggestions from players would also be appreciated and /or votes of support in this matter...</blockquote> Not to belittle your situation... but one ranger can go through 4k arrows in a raid. I made 8000+ arrows tonight and chances are I'll be sold out tomorrow. 80 combines. Gone in a couple hours for a couple of raiding rangers. In 80 combines a provisioner can make 160 5 hour food or drink items. My provisioner can supply all my toons much faster than I can fill four orders for quversfull of arrows! </blockquote>Something else to consider is that not all classes can use arrows/throwing weapons where all classes use food/drink. How long does it take to fill an ebony weapon rack for of arrows vs an ebony pantry? You could fill a weapon rack up 20 times in the time it takes (combines) to fill an ebony pantry.

Sapphirius

07-14-2007, 05:15 PM

Hmmm, provisioning yields and crying how they aren't "fair" compared to woodworker ammo or alchemist potion/poison yields are something that I feel strongly about. Some of the previous posters have already described why. It's a matter of A) supply & demand, B) benefits gained, and C) the duration of those benefits. The only way I would supposrt an increase in provisioning yields is to either increase the amount of fuel used accordingly or to increase the cost of the fuel to be the same as everybody else's.<points to the post describing how many arows a ranger will go through and the 5-hour drinks compared to 30 min. potions>As it is, you can make two foods/drinks at once. There was a time when you made your food and drink one at a time, and the good stuff required several steps to go through in making them.Calthine is right. It's all about choices, but I disagree with her when she says that they're all fairly balanced. Provisioning and Scribing (sages) are not like some of the other classes that had complete sets of recipes removed from their books, i.e. weaponsmiths losing the ability to make ammo.If you are spending more time cooking than you are doing the things you want to do, then you need to set your foot down and prioritize your game time. You play this game to have fun, after all. If you aren't having fun, then why are you playing it?

Calthine

07-14-2007, 06:23 PM

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote>Calthine is right. It's all about choices, but I disagree with her when she says that they're all fairly balanced. </blockquote> For the record, I didn't say that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I said they all have clear advantages and disadvantages.

Aaldaaf

07-14-2007, 10:34 PM

I'm happy, after being away for two and a half years, the output is ten times as much as it used to be for the five hour food and drink; and as icing on the cake, it all stacks. It used to be 5 combines for one of the x8 x9 items and it was much harder to get pristine every time. Now it's just one combine and very easy to get pristine. It was even worse before that when the five combine food/drink only lasted 1 hour.

Calthine

07-15-2007, 04:39 AM

I was just making arrows and a thought occurred to me. Let's approach this from another direction. Assuming I harvested all my raws and apply no opportunity cost to them, one T7 pristine arrow combine costs me 1g38s in fuel. I sell the result of the combine for 5g. (That's 1s38c cost per arrow, sold for 5s.) Assuming all the same, one T7 5 hour drink (I'm looking at Bosprite's Wine) costs 1g24s3c per combine, and on my server are selling for an average of 6g for the result of the combine. (That's 62s15c cost per drink, sold for 3g.) Basically, on my server at least, the profit-per-combine when comparing arrows to drinks is in favor of Provisioners.

leiela

07-15-2007, 04:54 AM

On my server competiton for food and drink sales is fierce, and there is plently on the market. Although i'll agree provisioner is my most time consuming tradeskill class, i also belive the only thing increasing the yeild will achive is to make competition tougher and drive down the prices. ATM provisioner might be my most time consuming tradeskill to stock up. But it is also my most lucrative tradeskill, Changing yeilds will only save people time for thoses that don't sell on the markets and are trying to feed guildy's. At the end of the day it all come down to supply and demand, increasing the supply won't increase the demand, therefore competition will drive prices down. Ultimatly you could make yeids like those for arrows but then you'd only earn less than Arrow profits off each one. So for those of us trying to make profit, we'll still spend just as long in the tradeskill instance making the stuff because we will need to make so much more to try and earn the same amount of money as we do now.

Lasai

07-15-2007, 04:59 AM

Another distinct advantage to Provisioner is absolute freedom from Raw Rares, Raw Books, and the hidious fuel cost of imbueing mastercrafted anything at t7.For those of us that have Tradeskillers like Armor or Weapons.. the only seriously considered items for us are Mastercrafted and generally imbued. I don't feel bad at all about you getting 2 sellable items per combine.. it's easily obtained common raws, fuel, and combine time. Factor in the time spent harvesting a rare to produce a sellable item.. or the time taken to earn gold for a rare.. and I will guarantee AS and WS will spend far more time per SELLABLE item than any Provie ever has to, and being you have a repeat and stable market you will make far more profit in that time. Plus, you don't have rare book costs to absorb. Im absolutely loving my little provie, instead of leveling up doing tiresome writs, I'm leveling up making items that can turn a profit, starting out, my Fae Provie made over a plat on Orange Wine.. and many levels of exp gained while making those stacks of wine.I think Provie is the very good just as it is.

Sapphirius

07-15-2007, 05:18 AM

<nods> I can say that, out of all my girls, my baby provie is the only one pulling in a generous and steady income. My other girls only make money off the occassional rare commission and adventuring... when they actually get out to go beat stuff up.

Finora

07-15-2007, 02:13 PM

Speaking as a long time guild provisioner (since long long before lu24), Provisioning is not the huge timesink it once was. I used to nearly cry when the high level adventurers would ask for multiple stacks of trailmix and highend drink for the tier. Talk about hours of time spent on combines, it was madness.If you know your skills you can do a combine for 2 complete products in a minute or less these days. If you are out for speed not fuel efficiency you can always just stop at the first level of quality since there is no difference in the product just the quantity produced.If you are actively trying to level up and guildies want food that is grey to you, direct them to another provisioner that will get xp for it. I have a character 69 or 70 in almost every tradeskill, yet when I need something for a lower level alt if a guild mate who would get xp for that item is on I'll often ask them if they'd like to make it for the xp.If there isn't another provisioner in the guild then perhaps request that they send orders at least a day or 2 in advance of when they will need the items so that you can get them done with the least amount of impact on your play time. It isn't too much to ask.

TheSco

07-16-2007, 03:18 AM

How about adding a skill that can only be used once in a set time for making bulk food and drink. Maybe like once a week. This way if you need a stack of something fast for a friend then you will not have to worry about a timesink. I am fine for the way it is now, but do not mine some help too.

dartie

07-16-2007, 12:25 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite><blockquote>Im absolutely loving my little provie, instead of leveling up doing tiresome writs, I'm leveling up making items that can turn a profit, starting out, my Fae Provie made over a plat on Orange Wine.. and many levels of exp gained while making those stacks of wine.I think Provie is the very good just as it is.</blockquote> I agree. I think provvies get anything but a "raw" deal. (You gotta love kitchen puns!)I put off making my provvy until I got the free slot with Neriak. I thought they would be mindless grinders and a PITA to level.But even though my provvy was the 8th made of my 9 crafters, she has already surged past my armorer (4th made) because she's so much more gratifying to work with. Fairly impressive considering that he had about a 5-month head start!I don't know how profitable my provvy could be because I send everything she makes to my other characters, but I know its WAY more psychologically rewarding to make something that is going to be used by a character in the game than to make feyiron reverent leggings over and over and over only to sell them to the broker.Provvy doesn't feel like a grind at all to me, and I think the time spent making a stack of 20 of the 5-hour food or drink is reasonable.

Raveller

07-16-2007, 01:02 PM

Could we please revamp armorer yields! When my armorer crafts a cobalt breatsplate, instead of getting only one breastplate, he should get five! Or ten! Or maybe he should get a full suit of armor plus a shield from one cobalt cluster!It's not fair that other classes get multiple products from one combine when armorers only get one item!

Devilsbane

07-16-2007, 01:08 PM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was just making arrows and a thought occurred to me. Let's approach this from another direction. Assuming I harvested all my raws and apply no opportunity cost to them, one T7 pristine arrow combine costs me 1g38s in fuel. I sell the result of the combine for 5g. (That's 1s38c cost per arrow, sold for 5s.) Assuming all the same, one T7 5 hour drink (I'm looking at Bosprite's Wine) costs 1g24s3c per combine, and on my server are selling for an average of 6g for the result of the combine. (That's 62s15c cost per drink, sold for 3g.) Basically, on my server at least, the profit-per-combine when comparing arrows to drinks is in favor of Provisioners. </blockquote> Food and drink have always been expensive. Once you know have to make a profit, dropping around 60g on a full stack of food and drink is not that big of an expense (cost equals 1g 20s per hour). Almost 2 years ago I remember a thread where the cost of drinks alone was 10s per hour. The majority of posters thought that was too high. <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Calthine

07-16-2007, 02:18 PM

<cite>Devilsbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Food and drink have always been expensive. Once you know have to make a profit, dropping around 60g on a full stack of food and drink is not that big of an expense (cost equals 1g 20s per hour). Almost 2 years ago I remember a thread where the cost of drinks alone was 10s per hour. The majority of posters thought that was too high. <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Yeah, that's when they gave provisioner fuel special pricing.

Timaarit

07-17-2007, 08:10 AM

Increasing the yield would make the food and drink flood on the market. So take a look at your broker and multiply the amount of food and drink by ten and then think that it will cumulate almost daily. That would be the future.

Sunlei

07-17-2007, 09:18 AM

I've had a provisioner from the beginning of eq2. I haven't made or sold any drinks/foods for over a year, only did writs to help lvl my guid from 19 to 57 so far today. I agree the yields should be slightly increased,perhaps to 3 or 5 for pristine. Was better when T7 gave 2 at both 3rd and pristine, that was 'changed' a few months ago when they added that raid only drink receipe. Now all lvls make only 2 at the pristine quality. However something needs to be done about the auto=bots macroing thousands of drinks/foods, the market is flooded with 2 or 3 silver profit, drinks and foods. If one looks at the broker even the lowest Ts have people selling hundreds of everything. I too had many game hours each day consumed by guildies, friends wanting drinks and food to the point where everytime I logged on I had writs I wanted to do, plus provide food/drinks for those adventurers who spend hours every day adventuring. They 'ding' lvls while you stand there all day making 'free' drinks/food for them and watch in chat while they loot stuffs and 'ding' lvls <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />You have to stop being their personal COOK and SLAVE or you will never ever have time to really play the game. Stop unless you like being their personal cook <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />do what I did, for less than one gold you can buy stacks of drinks and foods off those broker bots and place those in your guild bank. I also, after being overwelmed by hours of requests from guildies asked those requesting to please buy off the broker as the drinks/foods are being sold at almost cost. You can loot and sell one adept 1 and buy the stuff so cheap saving you hours and days <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> My guildies are really good people and I'm sure your guildies are nice too. They will understand once they notice that you spend all your gametime cooking for them. at least you are still leveling your provie, it gets even worse when you are lvl 70 and just being stuck as the 'guild cook' making 'free' stuff all day. Change what you are doing for them now or they will never stop taking.

Liyle

07-17-2007, 09:48 AM

Maybe a good compromise is to make the provisioner output equal to a real life recipe, which is often 4 servings. Seldom do you find a recipe that yields only 2. That would also be one serving per quality level.

Sapphirius

07-17-2007, 11:41 AM

<cite>Liyle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Maybe a good compromise is to make the provisioner output equal to a real life recipe, which is often 4 servings. Seldom do you find a recipe that yields only 2. That would also be one serving per quality level. </blockquote> Once again, only if they raise fuel costs to be the same as everyone else's or double the amount of fuel used. If you have a recipe that makes 2 drinks and uses 5 fuel, then changing it to make 4 drinks should require 10 fuel. Given the ratio of time drinks last compared to potions with yields etc., provies are already getting the better deal. Plus, the increased yield means less time making and more products flooded onto the market. Increasing the fuel cost or amounts will help to stem the flood of food & drink somewhat.Personally, as I have a little T6 provie myself, I don't think the yields need to be increased.