Agi Line / Shield Ally

[Nathdorl]

ok i gots mes some questions since GU36 i dropped the INT line for AGI (yay, doubleattack!) and i heard somewhat similar things from a templar with a different background: he said he parsed (as MT-templar) the use of shieldally (put on MT) against the classic healcrits. shieldally won by some major difference. the main reason for this might be that sony screwed the whole mitigation story completely with EoF so everything a warrior would want for tanking is avoidance and DPS. so, the benefit of shield ally would be: tank got more avoid -->kicks in on EVERY hit (read: gets into calculation/is rolled for) versus: some heals push out more HP, but at least when considering templars their benefit in the mt group are not primarily their heals.... so id consider shieldally a much better choice. ok.. err.. lets switch over to the inq I guess <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> STAM got teh melee critz plus your very own stoneskin if you pull aggro (dont laugh, i snatched aggro on the raid while dpsing on some occasions <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) on the other hand theres the AGI line: lots of double attack (yey!) and more shield block (concerning shield ally!) so err... what'd'ya guys thing about this one? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ztrom]

So, you want either the agi line or the sta line, together with what? I'm going to assume it's the int line for casting speed, since that's quite common, but then again, you said that you speced away from that to get agi... Hmm, I'll give you my thoughts anyways. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I think one of the issues with shield ally is that it uses your own avoidance, which means that if you have a 10% avoidance, it's not worth much. However, if you have a good shield and some other nice gear and get the avoidance up higher, especially as the same achievement that gives 32% double attack also gives 32% better effectiveness to your shield, it might actually be a viable option. For max heals, I'd personally think heal crits+cast times is worth the most. That's also quite nice for a hybrid heal/dps role, since you'll get melee crit too with that spec, and I do think that that's better for dps than only having double attack. If you want to max out your dps, STA+AGI is probably the way to go, to get both melee crit and double attack (and you'll actually get heal crit with that spec too, so it won't suck for healing). I know, it's hard getting used to not having the faster cast times from the int line, as I've left that, but in the end, it doesn't seem to do such a difference for heals as it does have for the damage I got with it. That way, you'd have both divine aura and shield ally too. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Speaking as a raider that's often in a melee dps group, I've found that the agi finisher that gives aoe immunity is really nice too. I can use it once every 2 minutes, so I can cycle it with fervent focus to keep myself safe from stunning ae's, which will also let me cure my group, or I can put it on a swashbuckler, brigand or other scout so that they can go in and debuff mobs on ranged only fights or just dps them without fear of the ae. Speaking as someone who solo and duo quite a bit, divine aura is awesome. I often tank mobs, and when things go bad, I just stick it on and put a reactive on and I'm at full health for a while... Has saved my life more times than I can count. Ok, I'm drifting off here, just trying to point out the pros of each line as I see it. However, to just answer your question, assuming that you're a casual healer that mostly kill heroic content, with perhaps a few pickup raids now and then... I think STA should be better than AGI, although I must admit that I have not tried parsing the difference between shield ally or no shield ally. This, as I stated earlier, is probably highly dependent on what equipment you use too, so I may be wrong if you have a lot of avoidance. Have anyone tried parsing this, and if so, do you have any numbers?

[Istaril]

Yes - I have numbers. Agi is only worth it if you can commit to it entirely. 630+ protection round shield (one of 2 , for templars, or 3, for Inquisitors, if I recall), a block adornment, and 2 parry adornments. It only uses your block/parry, so there's no point in raising your defense/agi etc. You then grant the tank a 60% chance of using your 12.3% block = 7.38% Chance to Block [Slightly higher for INQ with the better shield] You then grant the tank a 60-7.38= 52.62% Chance of using your 4% parry = 2.1% Chance to Parry   That means you absorb 9.48% of the melee damage the tank would have otherwise taken. Which is great - even on an off-tank, that's a very worthwhile investment (since as an INQ you get  better use from the double attack and Holy Shield than a Templar). Parses confirm the math - resulting in (so far) an average of around 5% reduction in incomming melee damage on the tank. In fact, it seems to be acting entirely as uncontested avoidance - ie, independent of mob level. Heal crits results in an average of about 3.5% net increase to all your heals. (~22% average gain per crit, 15.6% crit chance - once again, wide-scale parses/math confirm the theory). Which is better? Depends if you're mostly healing one target or many, and if your tank is mostly taking melee damage or not. But if I were a (raid) Inquisitor again, I would spec 4-4-8-8-2 (Agi) 4-4-7-8 (Sta). These two aa lines are useful enough to my healing as a templar that I'm currently specc'd exactly as such on my templar, despite gaining very little from the dbl attack/crit, although I'll probably be dropping Holy Shield (doesn't see much use in MT group - much better for inq. Toss this on a Rogue going in for swipes!) and Sta for some Int line, as my dps is extremely caster dependent. I'm still torn on that one though.

[Nathdorl]

okay thanks for the input so far to my role mentioned earlier: my inq is "only" an alt when it comes to raiding although i play him quite often outside of raids because hes my release-day char <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so with that been said, let my clarify what i'm specced for. i went STAM like.. 4-8-7-3-1 (reason: while in OT/scout-dps grp, i would normally have a bard (+7.5% crit anyway) and AGI: 4-4-8-8-1 as i'm wearing one off said round shields (can you list the others please, I'm _VERY_ curious!) concidering the fact that the inq is mostly a supporter for scout dps groups with fana up most of the time when not group-healing i decided to go in all the way and get me some dps too erm... if you want to have a look at the equip i chose for that: <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=306524301" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=306524301</a> when it comes to raiding and to certain mobs where i know i'll need to heal a lot i switch over to my blackcoat stuff (gots mes macros for thats <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)

[Avirodar]

Istaril, can you please post the names of the round shields that priests are able to wear (with good protection)? I want to get my hands on one, if they are still obtainable. I honestly thought they were all removed (or changed to bucklers, with reduced protection ratings)? I would love to test the fine details of Battle Fervor + Shield Ally (AGI AA's), in terms of how much it really helps a tank avoid melee attacks from epic names... But as I am in a DPS group, the "extra avoidance" factor is redundant, and I am in no real position to test the figures. I am still trying to work out why some people like Holy Shield (single target AE avoid). I put some thought into the ability in terms of practical use, and I got stuck for finding any real benefit for PVE servers. 1) Holy Shield gives no benefit for solo/grouping/group_instances, and raid trash mobs. 2) Holy Shield on named raid encounters? Either the AE is trivial to the extent you can easily joust/ heal through it, or it is a mob like an avatar, where there is far too much activity in place that can and does break AE avoids (eg: adds, damage shields, de-agroing mobs, etc etc) 3) Holy Shield on self?  Jousting + Fervent Focus + Clickies have it covered already... So I ask those of you who have gone down the AGI line, for what encounters does Holy Shield actually come in useful? And by this I do not mean what encounters can you now be lazy and not joust every second AE, but actual genuine solid use, which would adequately compensate for the sacrifices of Cast Speed + Divine Recovery, which are useful game-wide abilities for solo, group, instance and raid encounters? As most Raiding Inquisitors (except on PVP) are in groups that primarily DPS and not tank, it looks to me that people who changed from STA+INT to AGI+STA, done so to increase their personal DPS output.  Each to their own, if it is what you want, go for it, have fun, and enjoy playing EQ2.   But still. unless I am missing something (or your guild does not have an active MT Templar), I do not see any real benefit in the AGI line aside from a 32% boost to the auto attack component of my total DPS output... If I did miss something obvious, and you can shed some light on what encounters Holy Shield is an incredible tool, please let me know. If there is enough worth-while content in the game for Holy Shield (over spell cast timers and Divine Recovery), that free respec would be very tempting. Edit: I found a couple of Round Shields, I did not find them in earlier searches because I only looked for legendary and fabled. I find it odd that we can use treasured round shields, but not legendary or fabled... I am willing to bet that SOE simply missed a couple when the other round shields we once could use, were changed so we could not.  One other round shield is aITEM 79137442 542710249<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />isc of Protection/a : Disc of Protection.

[Istaril]

Well, as mentioned above, I'd see Holy Shield as primarily useful to let swashbucklers/brigands go in (safely) for traumatic swipe, or let you go in (safely) for a rez. In an offtank group, it could actually let the offtank stay in to grab the adds that spawn faster (rumbler, etc). With some AEs getting nastier from the new curing system, having the right person avoiding the AE so he can group-cure the stifle etc can give you a much larger margin of error. Through in Fervent Focus (Or Voice), and cure potions - and you can cycle between stifle/stun cures and avoidance and make your job much easier. I've gotten some decent use from the ability as a Templar - but I'm only using it because there's no better way to spend my points if I insist on keeping Agi/Sta. If I swap to Agi/Int, I'll be dropping Holy Shield for DR. Edit: Round Shields you can Use: Inquisitor/Sk only one whos name escapes me (Treasured) Disc of Protection Bulwark of somethingorother (From "Boisterous Alliance" quest in SoS).

[Raith]

<a href="http://eq2idb.com/item_details.php?item=NzkxMzc0NDI=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2idb.com/item_details.php?...em=NzkxMzc0NDI=</a> aITEM 79137442 542710249:Disc of Protection/a <a href="http://eq2idb.com/item_details.php?item=LTExNjMyNzEyNjE=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2idb.com/item_details.php?...TExNjMyNzEyNjE=</a> aITEM -1163271261 -1945075741:Bulwark of the Brave/a <a href="http://eq2idb.com/item_details.php?item=LTIwNDQ0MzAxNTk=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2idb.com/item_details.php?...TIwNDQ0MzAxNTk=</a> aITEM -2044430159 -2123183607:Shadowed Shield of the Vault Sentry/a Protection: Disc of Protection: 634 Shadowed Shield of the Vault Sentry: 643 Bulwark of the Brave: 655 Also of note, the Bulwark of the Brave has +3 Parry and 15 Agi. If you are on a PvP server, then the Shield of Dark Betrayl is also availible to you. aITEM 57506783 136654708:Shield of Dark Betrayal/a <a href="http://www.eq2idb.com/item_details.php?item=NTc1MDY3ODM=" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.eq2idb.com/item_details....em=NTc1MDY3ODM=</a> +15 Agi and 705 Protection. Note that it is T6 Fabled, and the other stats are pretty awful, but it's got the most protection in the game, coupled with 32% better shield effectiveness, it'll probably be a big deal. It requires something on the order of 34k Faction, I'm still a ways away from that, but i'm working on it. I currently have the Bulwark of the Brave.

[juz]

<p>INQ/SK shield is Shadowed Shield of the Vault Sentry</p><p>aITEM -2044430159 -2123183607:Shadowed Shield of the Vault Sentry/a</p><p>15 STR/15STA/12WIS 643 PROT (Treasured)</p><p>I recently got the Festering Flesh Buckler and it's pretty nice.</p><p>aITEM -681646465 1997069854:Festering Flesh Buckler/a 503 PROT +6 DEF (Legendary)</p><p>Buckler of the Howler is darn nice but has no WIS and good luck getting it from Zerkers jejeje.</p><p>aITEM 860054479 -1877363944:Buckler of the Howler/a 438 PROT +5 PARRY (Fabled)</p><p>Bulwark of the Brave</p><p>aITEM -1163271261 -1945075741:Bulwark of the Brave/a 655 PROT +3 PARRY (Treasured)</p><p>As mentioned above Disc of Protection</p><p>aITEM 79137442 542710249<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />isc of Protection/a 634 PROT</p><p>Found these 2 but I don't know who drops them...Probably a bit hard to get hehe but for pure protection the treasured ones are the way to go.</p><p>Fetidthorn Vineguard (Fabled)</p><p>aITEM -1872277723 -1831775880:Fetidthorn Vineguard/a</p><p>Oaken Barrel Buckler (Fabled)</p><p>aITEM 1598838711 1033029672:Oaken Barrel Buckler/a</p>

[Nathdorl]

i think parry is completely useless to inqs as inqs dont have a parry skill and although i wear some +parry stuff, the avoid info still says 0.0% parry

[Istaril]

Correct - partially. +to parry skill will do nothing, since you don't have the parry skill. +%parry will add a fixed % of parry (The only examples of this are the Wrist parry adornments, t7 - sage crafted). Each adornment adds 2%, for a combined total of 4% uncontested parry (off which you cannot riposte).

[Raith]

<cite>Istaril wrote:</cite><blockquote>Correct - partially. +to parry skill will do nothing, since you don't have the parry skill. +%parry will add a fixed % of parry (The only examples of this are the Wrist parry adornments, t7 - sage crafted). Each adornment adds 2%, for a combined total of 4% uncontested parry (off which you cannot riposte). </blockquote> Any idea if +%Parry will add to the Shield Ally ability?

[Istaril]

Of course - see my last 8 or 10 post on the official boards <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. And scroll up a bit It does indeed add to shield ally. The correct calcuation is 60% Chance of Using 12.3% Block (Slightly higher for INQ with Shield of the Vault Sentry) = 7.38% of attacks blocked 60-7.38 = 52.62% chance of using 4% parry = 2.1% of attacks parried      [Parses indicated parry is factored in after block] =9.48% of Melee attacks that would otherwise have hit the main tank are intercepted. Your ACT will show it as "YOU Block" or "YOU Parry", and you can create a trigger (have a look in the templar boards) to have an alert every time it goes off if you like as well.

[juz]

<p>Where does Disc of Protection drop? Is it in Vaults? I thought the Shadowed Shield of the Sentry drops in Vaults. Maybe both of them do?</p>

[Nathdorl]

so, youre saying your defense does not add to shield ally? btw: you got any search pattern on this board to find said ACT triggers?

[Istaril]

<i> Within ACT's Triggers/Sounds tab, you can make a trigger with a results page and/or sound with a simple regex like: "<span style="font-family: courier new,courier">.+but YOU (?:block|parry)</span>".  The limitation of that is it will trigger for when a mob attacks you directly and you block/parry.  A second option, but also limited, is "<span style="font-family: courier new,courier">.+?tries to [^ ]+ ([A-z]+)(?: with .+?)?, but (?(?=1|miss)[*Nothing*]|.+).</span>" ...this will trigger for anyone blocking for someone else(IE not themselves).  The first option is probably fine, as you don't really care as much if another Fighter is blocking for another. </i>Quote = Aditu ONLY Parry and Block matter. No defense, no avoidance, no agility.... <i> </i>

[Nathdorl]

thank you very much for your help <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />