Raid Discussion

[Ama]

<p>I'm looking to get some oppinions about matters dealing with raiding.  Hopefully this won't get to heated since it will be dealing with semi "Hot Topics".  First, Is it fair to sell "Loot Rights" to others on unique items such as fabled set pieces? Second, What constitutes a "Fair" lockout timer on a zone upon entering and upon completion? Third and last question, Dealing with loot what should be expected to drop off a named and off trash? </p><p>I'll be asking for oppinions from Seasoned, Hardcore and casual raiders.  For the duration of this discussion I will be neutral about this matter. </p>

[Spider]

<p>is it encouraged ?? no not realy  does it prevent items from rotting ? yes which is good .</p><p>will the buyers gt looked down on ? Most definately  </p><p>but personaly our guild found an easy way around it all </p><p>we have a master transmuter that comes to every raid and if somethign drops taht no one can use it goes tot he transmuter and the resulting  transmuted item is rolled on by raid </p>

[Ama]

Spider wrote: <blockquote><p>we have a master transmuter that comes to every raid and if somethign drops taht no one can use it goes tot he transmuter and the resulting  transmuted item is rolled on by raid </p></blockquote> Have seen that myself in raids where a transmuter will transmute it on the spot. 

[Ama]

Thought I would chyme in and add one more part to the raid discussion.  What do you think makes a raid fight "Good" and "Exciting"?

[Jal]

Loot rights - Yep totally fair, you looted it you dont need it may as well offer it to others who may have been waiting ages to see it themselves. Lock out timers - Currently about right on successful runs but i hate with a passion the zone in lockout timers. Loot from trash - Legendary/masters should generally be all you expect from trash possibly the odd really rare fabled item.  Nameds should be the point of raid instances and it stops the 'relic run' type idea people get to farm easy trash for decent rewards.

[Roriondesexiest]

<p>If you looted it, it is yours to do what you want.  Sell, Transmute, rot.</p><p>On our server at least no one looks down at those that sell or buy like this.</p>

[Ama]

Glad to see a bit of a pattern developing here.  Hopefully we can keep this post going and I can make an article out of it. 

[Caetrel]

Transmuting rots is great.  Our guild makes the adornments for all DKP'd loot free of cost to members...and transmuted loot covers most of the mana/ infusion cost for this.  I doubt many raiding guilds fail to take transmuters along.  Nothing goes to waste. Regarding trash: the one thing I think casual and hardcore raiders would agree on, is that named mobs should consistently drop better loot than trash.  Emerald Halls trash is perfect- seeds/scales/barks and Fae cloaks.  Components and fun/ fluff items are great.  But having a highly desired item like Gloves of Sagacity drop from only trash mobs in FTH is annoying.  Alot of guilds will rot everything or most everything in FTH, while some mages would still wear those gloves. If mold armor comes back in the future, like relic armor from KoS, it would be nice to see subcomponents drop from raid trash only.  In KoS, the component stones were common to the point of being worthless as they dropped from heroic mobs.

[Strums]

<p>I think that selling loot rights to raid gear is fine.  Their are alot of people who really enjoy this game, yet their class is not in-demand and because of that they can not get in raid guilds.  For some of those people the only way they can get any half way decent gear is to buy it. </p><p>Our guild always has a T7 transmuter on raids, BUT our guild also pays for all repairs from raids.  So in turns, we have to make some money to pay for all the guildys repairs...and selling raid loot that would be just transmuted anyway seems to be a very fair way to do it.  Everyone wins.</p>

[Kaleyen]

If you kill the mob you can do what you want with the loot.  If nobody needs it then why not sell it and earn some money for the guild?  Raids are expensive, some zones more so then others.  On BB selling the loot rights is very common practice from the majority of guilds there, it's the one reason why I keep the 60s chat channel on. For trash it would be nice to see some decent Legendary items and the rare Fabled box, but hey, the way EoF is set up it eliminates trash runs like someone mentioned.  I like the idea of trash possibility dropping goodies. Lock out timers I'm agreeing with Jalek about getting a lock out timer RIGHT when you zone in.  When I was in my PVP guild we'd often leave a zone almost right after zoning in if we heard of a raid forming somewhere.  Which  meant even though we've only started to clear the trash we'd be locked out of that zone for days.

[Ama]

Kuian@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote> Lock out timers I'm agreeing with Jalek about getting a lock out timer RIGHT when you zone in.  When I was in my PVP guild we'd often leave a zone almost right after zoning in if we heard of a raid forming somewhere.  Which  meant even though we've only started to clear the trash we'd be locked out of that zone for days. </blockquote> The reason I ask about lockout timers is I recently did HoS with a pickup raid (Killed Venekor :XD<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  When we killed a trash mob it set the lockout timer for 5 days 3 hours instantly.  Looked around and said "[Removed for Content]" in raid with a person quickly saying "Welcome To Sony Raiding".  Course that's all i'll say about that subject since i'm neutral in this discussion.

[YummiOger]

<p>Loot Rights? ... Well my guild sells Fable items from time to time, almost always if it is Tradeable. The revenue goes into our monthly Plat Distribution to cover costs. Also we have 2/3 master transmuters on our Raids to mute anything that dont sell.</p><p>Lockout Timers?..The Zone Timers are just about right the way they are.. its the EOF LOOT that is borked! Some of these mobs have 24+ item loot tables. What is the chances of getting what u need?</p><p>Loot Named Vs. Trash? .. HoS and EH are good zones with a good item distribution. Trash drops above average ledgendary / Caft useable items. They can be sold to public for Plat or be used for Alts/ newbie upgrades.  Named mobs drop Fable No-Drop items that are generally a Main upgrade.</p><p>On a Side note, I think RoK should have a Fable Mold-type armor set. Named Drop Only + No -Trade, and the other combine Items (Gems,Shards,Cogs,Whatever,ect)  should drop off trash in Raid zones, BUT be tradeable. The EoF Set armor is just too big a pain in the azz to collect and MANY of our set drops are transmuted.</p>

[Freliant]

<p>First of, Thanks Amana for starting this topic. I hope it gets full use as I think some thing might be good if they changed a bit.</p><p>My background: Main - Wizard. Prefers to play Guardian Twink). Part of a casual guild with 2 raid nights doing descent progression.</p><p><b>Loot rights:</b> I am with the mayority on this one: The work was done to get the loot, so it is up to the raid that got the loot to decide what to do with it. The fact that it is no-trade, however, probably means that it wasn't the intention of the developers for the item to go to someone who doesn't raid, but those items do not come into the world and are sold so often as to make them trivial, so its at a good balance currently. Should it be changed so only the people that participated on the raid can loot? I hope not, since that will keep those that couldn't join the raid because they weren't needed but are still standing there rooting for their guild in spirit not get anything for their time.</p><p><b>Lockout timers: </b>For zones in which trash mobs drop usefull items (or even have usefull items) there should be an initial zone in lockout timer dependant on the possible quality of the trash loot. So if the trash can drop legendary, then a 12 hour lockout timer is fine. If trash can drop fabled, then 24 hours or more should be good. If trash drops NO LEGENDARY OR FABLED, then there should be no lockout timer for zoning in. By the same token, in my opinion, all raid zones should have a Named at the entrance to the zone... sort of like the "gatekeeper", that prevents entrance to the zone. Once you kill it, you get its loot, and you get a full lockout timer.</p><p><b>Loot fairness: </b>Boss loot from dungeons should always have loot better than the trash mobs. This should not dimish the trash's chance to drop a good chest, but you shouldn't have to ever worry if all the time you invested would be wasted on treasured loot. Heck, even the "boobie prize" should be of at least legendary quality, even if its just a consumable. Something like Legendary food, Consumable attacks, Shapeshifting totems... something usefull, even if temporary instead of just vendor trash. In addition to this "boobie prize" loot, there should be the descent legendary loot and, give the mob a one in 100 chance to drop a great fabled. With the 1 day lockout timer, this will ensure that all toons would WANT to do that zone over and over until they get the desired drop. Many zones would not empty out if there are in demand items that have a rare chance of dropping. Some people do unrest over and over because they want their "plasma wand", or "Fleshweave Buckler" for example, and it makes them feel pride once they finally get it. As for outdoor zones, and public dungeons, my stance is a little different: while boss fights should have an overall chance to drop better loot, it shouldn't be any better than it is right now. In fact, some zones should probably be toned down to prevent the farming that is currently going on. The reason for this, IMO, is because for outdoor zones and public dungeons, there are methods of bypassing some content and just going straight for the mob that drops the "good loot". While that exists, I don't think there should be any increase in the quality, or quantity of the good loot dropped by these type of mobs. However, if the mob is on an "event", then by all means, the quality of that boss drop should be in line with the difficulty of the event. The Arena event in fallen gate comes to mind: a group of level 23+ toons has to clear all mobs in the arena before engaging the boss or risk being pummeled to death by the surrounding mobs, and consequently the boss always gives fabled loot. That is the type of encounter in my mind that deserves good loot all the time. The single boss fights in contested zones that have a quick spawn timer should drop from treasured loot to legendary loot, with an occasional master, while event boss mobs should drop from legendary up with a higher chance at master loot.</p>

[YummiOger]

<cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kuian@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote> Lock out timers I'm agreeing with Jalek about getting a lock out timer RIGHT when you zone in.  When I was in my PVP guild we'd often leave a zone almost right after zoning in if we heard of a raid forming somewhere.  Which  meant even though we've only started to clear the trash we'd be locked out of that zone for days. </blockquote> The reason I ask about lockout timers is I recently did HoS with a pickup raid (Killed Venekor :XD<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  When we killed a trash mob it set the lockout timer for 5 days 3 hours instantly.  Looked around and said "[Removed for Content]" in raid with a person quickly saying "Welcome To Sony Raiding".  Course that's all i'll say about that subject since i'm neutral in this discussion. </blockquote> SoE did that to stop Relic Farming in that Zone. Its a pretty big open zone and possiable to kill many trash without killing named. Raiding should go for Nameds, not trash. I agree with that lockout timer. More Zones should be that way.

[Ama]

Ahdam@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote><cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kuian@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote> Lock out timers I'm agreeing with Jalek about getting a lock out timer RIGHT when you zone in.  When I was in my PVP guild we'd often leave a zone almost right after zoning in if we heard of a raid forming somewhere.  Which  meant even though we've only started to clear the trash we'd be locked out of that zone for days. </blockquote> The reason I ask about lockout timers is I recently did HoS with a pickup raid (Killed Venekor <img src="/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  When we killed a trash mob it set the lockout timer for 5 days 3 hours instantly.  Looked around and said "[Removed for Content]" in raid with a person quickly saying "Welcome To Sony Raiding".  Course that's all i'll say about that subject since i'm neutral in this discussion. </blockquote> SoE did that to stop Relic Farming in that Zone. Its a pretty big open zone and possiable to kill many trash without killing named. Raiding should go for Nameds, not trash. I agree with that lockout timer. More Zones should be that way.</blockquote><p> K, that answers one question and actually i'm glad someone brought up RoK.  A small personal quote from me I do hope they do set piece molds so you get a combination of relic and set pieces.  It is deffinately tricky getting the right set piece since your group and raid greatly vary.  If you have 20 of the 24 classes in a raid that is a 1 in 20 chance of looting the correct piece for your class.  This can be further complicated if the zone isn't augmented like Obelisk of Blight or Crypt of Valdoon to recognize the number of classes there.  </p><p>Thanks for the oppinions guys keep em coming. Getting alot of great information thus far that is really helping me out. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ama]

<p>Another Small Update:</p><p>I've gotten a good feel for the community and i'll be able to write up something with what I have thus far.  However I hope to get some more oppinions from people so that I can get a better scope of things.  </p><p>So far we have talked about Zone Lockout Timers, Selling Loot Rights (Is it fair?), what kind of loot/treasure should drop off nameds vs trash, and what makes a raid "Exciting".  </p><p>My final question maybe hard to answer here.  I want to ask everyone about their feelings with RoK coming out and the level cap being increased to level 80.  Will this degrade raids like the KoS ones and even more so Mistmoore Innersanctum, Emerald Halls, Clockworkmenace and the Freethinker's Hideout? Or will it open them up so people get to experience them on an "Easier" level? </p>