Tier 3 duplicate furniture graphics...

[StargateFanGirl]

<p>Initially this was just going to be about 'The Fir Trophy box' (mastercrafted) and the 'Open Chest of Skulls' (handcrafted) sharing the same graphic within the same tier but there are 4 pictures - 3 in Tier 3 and 1 in Tier 2 that are duplicates and 4 rugs in Tier 3 that are also duplicates... </p><p>The Canvas Painting and the Fine Landscape painting in T3 share the same graphic and are both handcrafted, the T3 Painting of the Sun God shares the same graphic as the T2 Burlap painting...</p><p>The T3 mastercrafted Ruckas Rug shares the same graphic as the handcrafted Coalition Ornate Rug; the T3 handcrafted Canvas Rug and Embellished Rug also share the same graphic as each other...</p><p>It's fabulous that we're getting new furniture added, but with these furniture items sharing graphics (2 of which are mastercrafted) there's no point to making or even trying to sell 5 of those 10 items since they're of no real interest to our customers. Can't they be fixed please so that they all have their own graphic and their own individual appeal to the decor conscious players?</p>

[Domino]

GU37 will see some of the duplicates removed - <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=75&topic_id=361741#4179510" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">see this post for probable list</a>.  There are more duplicates of course, including the ones you mentioned, I plan to continue weeding them out over time. I won't change the graphic on them however, because if I did that, all the items existing in the world already would suddenly change shape/color/size and people's decorations would potentially be all messed up.  The recipes will have to vanish entirely (existing items will remain) and then new recipes can be added. 

[Josgar]

Won't that slow down leveling for carpenters... because they are losing a pristine bonus?

[NiamiDenMother]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Won't that slow down leveling for carpenters... because they are losing a pristine bonus? </blockquote> Losing 5, if she does everything from that list, gaining over two dozen.  Still makes for a very solid net gain.

[Josgar]

True... I hear about small races wanting smaller furniture... maybe she could somehow add smaller furniture in the future.

[Calthine]

You know, if that upholstering job Domino did on the GU 37 new stuff isn't difficult, perhaps she could just refininsh the duplicates.. Nah, probably too much work.

[StargateFanGirl]

Excellent.

[Domino]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Won't that slow down leveling for carpenters... because they are losing a pristine bonus? </blockquote>And that's why we waited before removing any, till the XP for tradeskill writs was added.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Deson]

<cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Won't that slow down leveling for carpenters... because they are losing a pristine bonus? </blockquote>And that's why we waited before removing any, till the XP for tradeskill writs was added.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Can I read that as a balance by numbers is dead statement?

[Raveller]

If they remove one duplicate of a popsicle sticks and glue paste looking furniture graphic, and replace it with a different popsicle and glue paste looking furniture graphic, but the status reduction on the popsicle sticks remains the same, then what have you gained?

[Deson]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they remove one duplicate of a popsicle sticks and glue paste looking furniture graphic, and replace it with a different popsicle and glue paste looking furniture graphic, but the status reduction on the popsicle sticks remains the same, then what have you gained? </blockquote>Different popsicle stick options for those so inclined to want such.As Calthine is so fond of saying, variety!

[Rijacki]

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Won't that slow down leveling for carpenters... because they are losing a pristine bonus? </blockquote>And that's why we waited before removing any, till the XP for tradeskill writs was added.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Can I read that as a balance by numbers is dead statement? </blockquote> Realistically, balance by numbers is impossible as long as spell/CA upgrades are craftable.  Domino's plan to give an XP bonus to doing writs that's near to the pristine bonus a sage gets from all their scrolls the first time is a solution to the numbers that doesn't nerf anyone but gives more options to the non-scholars who have fewer recipes.

[Deson]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Won't that slow down leveling for carpenters... because they are losing a pristine bonus? </blockquote>And that's why we waited before removing any, till the XP for tradeskill writs was added.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Can I read that as a balance by numbers is dead statement? </blockquote> Realistically, balance by numbers is impossible as long as spell/CA upgrades are craftable.  Domino's plan to give an XP bonus to doing writs that's near to the pristine bonus a sage gets from all their scrolls the first time is a solution to the numbers that doesn't nerf anyone but gives more options to the non-scholars who have fewer recipes. </blockquote>I'll believe the result when I see it; I'm still wary of it as a substitute for removing the pristine bonus and the reason I'm about to restate. With xp added to writs, does this mean numbers no longer play a role in recipe allocation and clean up. It was clearly mentioned as a factor before and was one that hamstrung recipe development, allocation and clean-up. Does the quoted statement mean that effectively arbitrary and meaningless numbers no longer hold sway over recipe allocation and overall class balance?

[beladi]

The only concern I have for TS Writs replacing the first pristine bonus is on my provisioner.   I never do TS writs with her, it's far more profitable to make the food and sell it. Of course, this is nearly a moot issue ( at least for a few months ) since she is currently lvl 67.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Louis_M]

<cite>beladi wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only concern I have for TS Writs replacing the first pristine bonus is on my provisioner.   I never do TS writs with her, it's far more profitable to make the food and sell it. Of course, this is nearly a moot issue ( at least for a few months ) since she is currently lvl 67.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> the TS writs are not replacing the first pristine bonus on crafted items

[Rijacki]

<cite>Louis_M wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>beladi wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only concern I have for TS Writs replacing the first pristine bonus is on my provisioner.   I never do TS writs with her, it's far more profitable to make the food and sell it. Of course, this is nearly a moot issue ( at least for a few months ) since she is currently lvl 67.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> the TS writs are not replacing the first pristine bonus on crafted items </blockquote>Exactly, both the pristine bonus and the crafting XP bonus for writs will exist. For those classes with lots and lots of recipes (i.e. sage) that get more pristine bonus simply because they have more recipes will be "balanced" against those classes which don't (i.e. provisioner) by the writs' bonus giving almost as much XP to one of those classes as the class with a large number of recipes.  Using those as examples: The sage will get pristine bonus.  The provisioner will get pristine bonus. The sage will still have lots of recipes and will get pristine bonus on all of them.  The provisioner will still have fewer recipes than the sage but will still get pristine bonus for each one.  The sage can do writs which require doing a few recipes over and over and will get bonus XP on them that would be less than doing nothing but new recipes for the pristine bonus.  The provisioner can do writs and get bonus XP which would be close to the XP the sage would get for doing the same number of recipes that are all new (pristine bonus). There would not be a requirement to do writs.  But those who look at only the XP numbers (the grinders) and aren't really interested in making products to sell (the grinders), will have something to "balance" the amount of pristine bonus the scholars get without nerfing the scholars.

[Boyar]

<cite>Deson wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DominoDev wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Won't that slow down leveling for carpenters... because they are losing a pristine bonus? </blockquote>And that's why we waited before removing any, till the XP for tradeskill writs was added.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Can I read that as a balance by numbers is dead statement? </blockquote><p>I don't think so. </p><p>She's still made it abundantly clear that she intends to keep adding recipes to balance classes. This was just an easy way to give us a quick, relatively fair, and probably easy to code workaround for the XP side of things. </p><p>In the meantime, it sounds like she's waiting for sub pristines to go away so she can go through a more efficient itemization process to give us functional recipes to make all our trades worthwhile. </p><p>The exceptions are Carp and Prov, whose items aren't so deeply tied in with game balance and can be added more quickly. She knows she can't just slap chocolate covered armor into the game willy-nilly without passing it through major balancing for both PVE and PVP. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[beladi]

<cite>Louis_M wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>beladi wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only concern I have for TS Writs replacing the first pristine bonus is on my provisioner.   I never do TS writs with her, it's far more profitable to make the food and sell it. Of course, this is nearly a moot issue ( at least for a few months ) since she is currently lvl 67.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> the TS writs are not replacing the first pristine bonus on crafted items </blockquote> Oh, well, that's a relief then.

[Deson]

While there is no denying the work she is doing to expand the options of classes and her drive to make sure all classes have something fun, that is not necessarily tied to recipe numbers balance. The practicality of my question is best exampled by sages.While they level incredibly fast, they have effectively only 1 recipe their entire careers( I used to say 2 but really? a spell is a spell is a spell). When this was brought up before, she made comment to the sheer volume of spells to be crafted and the massive xp imbalance it created as a negative factor to giving them much of anything. To have your options restricted by raw numbers and no other real balance factor is not right. With the new writs and the fact pristine bonus is a diminishing return, it would seem that those pristine bonuses should be a non-factor in recipe development and placement considerations. Her quoted statement seems to make that so, I just want to be sure I'm reading it right.

[Myster]

I really don't see giving writs an XP bonus is the way to fix it... Writs are there to gain faction with the city tradeskill society as well as guild status.  It pulls the focus of writs away from where it's intended and just becomes a grinding tool because it's the fastest way to level. Then you have everyone who worked hard doing writs to gain faction levels and get special titles and items... who suddenly feel that all that work put into getting that is made less important now that everyone will have it just from the standard leveling up process. If you feel adding XP to quests is the way to achieve the balance then perhaps setting another quest giver in the tradeskill instance with quests designed to "test your abilities and push them to the limits" with quests that would just give xp and cash bonuses would be the way to go. Personally, I feel the removal of first-time pristine bonus and a slight increase to the standard xp gain for crafting would be a better fix, since realistically everyone having the same number of craftables every level isn't possible. And before anyone says it, no, I don't have a bunch of level 70 crafters... I could really benefit from this XP bonus going on writs on my armorer, weaponsmith, and woodworker. (Only one level 70 crafter... and i've been crafting with everyone since release!)

[MrWolfie]

Mysteran@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote> Then you have everyone who worked hard doing writs to gain faction levels and get special titles and items... who suddenly feel that all that work put into getting that is made less important now that everyone will have it just from the standard leveling up process. </blockquote><p> But, surely, anyone who gained special titles and items from doing writs henceforth, would still have put the same amount of work into getting them as anyone previously?</p><p>No-one's taking anything away from the people who do LOTS of writs for faction, but they are adding more reason to do writs in the first place. Not a wholly bad thing, imho. </p><p>Not to mention, as anyone who has done writs for faction knows, it takes a lot more writs to gain faction than it does if you're using them to level up (especially if you start adding TS xp to writs rewards). So the xp grinders will stop doing writs when they achieve their target: max level, and the status grinder will have to continue further to achieve their target: maxxed faction.</p>

[TaleraRis]

They're not making it any easier to gain status. Everyone still has to do the writs and work their way up. If they made that process easier, then that would be unfair to those who worked on writs now. They're putting in more incentive to do those writs.  That doesn't take away the work anyone has done in the past and it doesn't change the work anyone will have to do in the future. All it has potential to change is the volume of people who have certain titles or status items, etc, from the tradeskill societies. And chances are that if they weren't the type to care to put all that work in before, they probably won't be now. They may get incidental status, but you really have to work to get your way up in status doing tradeskill writs. Speeding up the leveling speed they may go from doing writs just means they'll be there less time to do them and once they have the goal they wanted levelwise, they will have no further impetus to do writs. Unless they wanted to work on their status, but if they have that desire, then they aren't just those who are using the writs to level up, which is the group that is bringing the controversy to the table.