Give me a role in a raid please all I am asking for!

[Prothos]

<p>Out of the 1000 topics on this I finally wanted to give my 2 cents.</p><p>We are out parsed by plate that tank better as well.</p><p>We have no defined role in a raid never have.</p><p>What can I offer the raid?  If I were a scout would the raid parse higher?  Would my brawler be missed?  If I were a Zerker would my brawler be missed in the raid?</p><p> How about you fix something for once that has always been broke.  And you even give us a Detaunt AA.  Rofl</p><p> How about giving us a taunt AA because we cannot hold hate for $^%&.</p><p>How about something slightly positive?  To much to ask for?</p><p>/rant off I am done with the topic now I will leave it be.</p>

[Lana]

My bruiser looks a lot cooler than my Berserker does. <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Madmoon]

<p>You have the right - and I am glad you exercise it - to post anything you want on these forums, but honestly, hasn't this been beaten to death?  Which as bruisers is a good thing, I know, but still, at this point, what's left to say?  We don't have a unique ability that makes a raid seek us out, leaving us to argue over whether what we do bring is of any use to a raid or not.  </p>

[MadGiggler]

its a shame that SOE & or the dev's dont read these....  i have read most of the posts in the Bruiser section... and post after post they echo each other: Make Brawlers-Bruisers contribute something of value to a RAID!!!  ooooooooo---- we can F/D and rez if the raid wipes....but in all honesty so can necro's and anyone that is a Tinker...so why should a "raiding guild" want a brawler.....if (like this happens much) we take agro we get smooshed. at least Monks get the ability to heal others (not much but it helps from time to time). I think that Brawlers should be able to out dps anyone one that wields a wep...  fine keep our deagro but make it so we can take agro then. my 2cp..

[Novusod]

Actually bruisers need to raise their vocies more often. It is classes that make most noise get the most attention. Look at the precendence: Guardians complained that they had the lowest DPS so they got a boost. Zerkers complained that they couldn't tank as well as guardians so they too boost. The bards complained about low dps so they got a whole series of boosts making them more powerfull. Seriously we need to keep shouting the message that brawlers need some help when it comes to raiding.

[ganjookie]

GIVE US RAID UTILITIES SOE or we WILL BEAT THE LIVING SHIP out OF the GNOME!

[firedawg9]

I dont think they will ever get avoidance tanking right for raid mobs.  So simple solution is up dps or give us utility.  Until then Bruisers will continue to be useless on raids.

[Cocytus]

<p>Drag = utility.</p><p>Limitted, admittedly, but I wanted to point it out.</p><p>That aside....maybe bring back bruiser's ability to stun epics? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Except make it so they don't grant a stun immunity timer. </p>

[Agaxiq]

Yeah maybe if our nerfed knock-downs affected epics it would be worthwhile.  Most of em are on long cast timers anyways so its not like it really unbalances anything. agressiv

[gelinx]

Quick question.  Are you having trouble getting invited to raids because people don't believe you have a role, or are you making raids but you just feel unimportant?  I will admit that we don't have any decent utility other than drag and the dps buff, but we still have a solid role as "puller, dps, and offtank". I don't get why most think we go smoosh as soon as we get aggro, I can get my mitigation pretty high to be able to take some hits from the mob as well as having the self heal and mitigation stun incase something goes wrong.  I also use drag if either a dps class gets aggro or if the mob spikes the MT into orange which can help if the fight is either not stabilized or if the healers need time to top him off.  Other than that, I am dps, and in a decent set group on a raid I can dish out some nice damage, consistenly being on the parse.  I recently respecced from 4-4-6-8 stamina and 4-4-8-8-1 int into 4-4-8-6-1 wis and 4-4-8-7-1 int for more ae dps.  I still need more time to try the spec, but with the 5 free respecs I should be able to test a number of builds. At first, I was also skeptical at what I bruiser brings to a raid and what role they play.  It's safe to say that there are a bunch of brawlers on my server, and I was lucky enough to be asked to join the raiding guild that I'm in now.  This has however, given me time to accept the fact that I will never be an MT for current content, but a tank/dps hybrid being able to both dish out damage and have decent offtanking ability.  I know what I contribute to the raid, and though it's only minor compared to what other classes can bring to the table, I have proven my worth and used what tools I am given by my class to the best of my abilities.  Plus, I get to raid with one of my favorite classes which kicks total [I cannot control my vocabulary]. +) All I am saying is, there is no need to fret about our current situation.  I find it absurd to not have at least one of every class on a raid (some classes won't make or break anything as much as other classes will), as everyone has their own buffs/debuffs that do make a difference.  I dunno though, my guild is doing fine with the EoF content, and we will be patiently waiting for RoK.  Maybe if they do release another AA tree, there will be such a Bruiser defining ability in it that will open the eyes of the ignorant that don't believe its worth having a Bruiser or a brawler in general.  I have been bummed out by all the negativity surrounding our class forums, which is why I haven't posted in a bit.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I think most want our class to be something that it is not, be it MT or some other role.  I for one was disillusioned by the whole Mitigation=Avoidance thing ([I cannot control my vocabulary] you Moorgard!), but it does hold true for most group content I guess.  Oh yeah, other than AE fights, you shouldn't be out-DPS'd by a plate tank.  Even if one is pure DPS specced and the brawler is specced for more tanking ability.  I am never outdone by fighters on single target mobs when it comes to dps.

[Etchii]

<p>Take all other class's feign away, remove body pulls, and add 4 seconds to the time it takes for a mob to walk away when it is hit and then feigned off, all adds not hit return immediatly.</p>

[D-DevilK]

Give brawlers a form of Poison. That would give us a very significant damage boost.

[Hamervelder]

I feel your pain.  My main is an sk.  We're about as popular for raiding as bruisers.  That's why I rolled a swashbuckler and leveled him to 70.

[Darkdourden]

If a plate tank is outparsing u, thats a big problem of ur character, so look at ur stuff and skills.... Thats right that we dont have a real role, but thats not a problem of SoE its a problem of ppl, i been tanking all my bruiser life in raids as good as a plate tank, and sometimes much better than they does, bruiser tankage is better than sk/pallin (i mean tankage, maybe they agro better than us) but with a good MT group like, Coercer, dirge, shaman and warden we r able to tank everything, i increasing my mitigation because my avoidance takes to cap in raid. Now i am in a guild of ppl that think that a plate tank is the only way, and we got some useless tanks unexpertise on tankage and we wipe a lot of times, thats the problem because ppl is ingorant about tankage. PD: Tanking is an Art not a Role.

[Bumpy]

They should change our raid icon from crossed swords to a pink diamond with a question mark in the middle.  On the plus side, being a [Removed for Content] hybrid makes us try harder cause we have to earn our spot, and good guild leaders recognize effort. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nerill]

We have a very, <b>very</b> long running thread in the "In Testing Feedback" of the forums. Please visit it, give it a read and add any ideas you have that would help both Brawler classes be more welcome to Raids. <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=748" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/....m?forum_id=748</a> Thanks. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kota]

yeah that's funny.  we have a de-taunt.  hahahaha. most of the time, even when i'm doing good (for me) dps, and i have swarthy on me, i don't pull aggro.

[Tomanak]

Gelinx@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>Quick question.  Are you having trouble getting invited to raids because people don't believe you have a role, or are you making raids but you just feel unimportant?  I will admit that we don't have any decent utility other than drag and the dps buff, but we still have a solid role as "puller, dps, and offtank". Oh yeah, other than AE fights, <b>you shouldn't be out-DPS'd by a plate tank</b>.  Even if one is pure DPS specced and the brawler is specced for more tanking ability.  I am never outdone by fighters on single target mobs when it comes to dps. </blockquote><p> On the first: Do I get invited to raids on my brawler? No. Not like I get raid invites when Im on my Dirge and Warden. Do I get invites to PuRs when I send the tell saying Im available? Yes. I guess the point is that unlike some classes we are not NEEDED. Id invite a brawler to the raid any day of the week, one more body is one more body, but I wouldnt specifically search for one....and that is i think peoples problem.</p><p>Im glad you are so uber you can out DPS zerkers parsing in the 1200s. I (and others apparently) unfortuntly can't. 1100 seems to be my max. You are right we should NEVER be outparsed by a plate tank, but it does happen. </p><p>Bottom line is Brawlers need looking at. Im not sure what needs to be done and Im guessing neither does SOE, which is probabaly why nothing has been done. Give us more DPS, the scouts will cry. Make us better tanks, the fighters will cry. This isnt something I see going awa anytime soon, which is why Im building a Brigand/Tinker, so I can DPS, be valued on raids and FD when I need to <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[ganjookie]

<p>I realize that everyone is entitled to his opinion, and I respect this. I also hope that you will all respect mine as you read this letter. By way of introduction, let me just say that honor means nothing to SoE. Principles mean nothing to SoE. All it cares about is how to diminish our will to live. I don't see how SoE can build a workable policy around wishful thinking draped over a morass of confusion (and also, as we'll see below, historical illiteracy), then impose it willy-nilly on a population by force. I'm not saying that it can't possibly be done but rather that the picture I am presenting need not be confined to SoE's agendas. It applies to everything it says and does. If you're interested in the finagling, double-dealing, chicanery, cheating, cajolery, cunning, rascality, and abject villainy by which SoE may create a kind of psychic pain at the very root of the modern mind in the immediate years ahead, then you'll want to consider the following very carefully. You'll especially want to consider that SoE is bound to have a rude awakening when it finally realizes how few people approve of its yawping statements. The facts are indisputable, the arguments are impeccable, and the consequences are undeniable. So why does SoE assert that people don't mind having their communities turned into war zones? I don't pretend to know the answer, but I do know that its favorite buzzword these days is "crisis". SoE likes to tell us that we have a crisis on our hands. It then argues that the only reasonable approach to combat this crisis is for it to create new (and reinforce existing) prejudices and misconceptions. In my opinion, the real crisis is the dearth of people who understand that I cannot promise not to be angry at SoE. I do promise, however, to try to keep my anger under control, to keep it from leading me -- as it leads SoE -- to impair the practice of democracy. </p> <p>SoE whines about mudslinging Huns, yet it enthusiastically supports insipid, rummy freeloaders. I use such language purposefully -- and somewhat sardonically -- to illustrate how in SoE's fibs, careerism is witting and unremitting, lewd and twisted. It revels in it, rolls in it, and uses it to recruit and encourage young people to inaugurate an era of self-satisfied, lousy cameralism, just as older drug dealers use young kids to push drugs. Nonetheless, to get even the simplest message into the consciousness of rapacious franions, it has to be repeated at least 50 times. Now, I don't want to insult your intelligence by telling you the following 50 times, but SoE keeps trying to make my blood curdle. And if we don't remain eternally vigilant, it will sincerely succeed. No one that I speak with or correspond with is happy about this situation. Of course, I don't speak or correspond with jejune fogeys, SoE's compeers, or anyone else who fails to realize that SoE's doctrines have earned it opprobrium, suspicion, resentment, and hatred. There's nothing controversial about that view. It's a fact, pure and simple. It was a fact long before anyone realized that SoE's statements such as "Bad things 'just happen' (i.e., they're not caused by SoE itself)" indicate that we're not all looking at the same set of facts. Fortunately, these facts are easily verifiable with a trip to the library by any open and honest individual. SoE decries or dismisses capitalism, technology, industrialization, and systems of government borne of Enlightenment ideas about the dignity and freedom of human beings. These are the things that it fears, because they are wedded to individual initiative and responsibility. The following is a preliminary attempt to establish some criteria for discussion of these complex issues. To begin with, SoE likes to imply that ghastly, uncontrollable sciolists and pathological, perfidious nutcases should rule this country. This is what its analects amount to, although, of course, they're daubed over with the viscid slobber of mephitic drivel devised by its lackeys and mindlessly multiplied by the worst classes of unforgiving yahoos there are. This letter has gone on far too long, in my opinion, and probably yours as well. So let me end it by saying merely that I'm not actually demanding revenge.</p><p><a href="http://www.pakin.org/complaint/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">.</a></p>

[Novusod]

Kithian Please lay off the drugs and don't plagiarize.

[Prothos]

<p>Giving us a slight raise in auto attack damage etc could give us the edge.</p><p>How are plate tanks buffed to +70Avoidance?  Your telling me a plate wearing person could move like a monkey?  Rofl</p><p>Lower there avoidance.  Give us slightly more avoidance or mit.</p><p>Or you could just give us more DPS.</p><p>Shrug you pay people to think of solutions.  Please find one that suites you SOE fast!</p><p>PS I am now leveling other caster types due to brawlers sucking at the moment.  I truely hate this.  But I want to raid on my guilds raid nights and not be the last person choosen or not choosen at all.  /thanks SoE</p>

[silentpsycho]

Sugota@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>Gelinx@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>Quick question.  Are you having trouble getting invited to raids because people don't believe you have a role, or are you making raids but you just feel unimportant?  I will admit that we don't have any decent utility other than drag and the dps buff, but we still have a solid role as "puller, dps, and offtank". Oh yeah, other than AE fights, <b>you shouldn't be out-DPS'd by a plate tank</b>.  Even if one is pure DPS specced and the brawler is specced for more tanking ability.  I am never outdone by fighters on single target mobs when it comes to dps. </blockquote><p> On the first: Do I get invited to raids on my brawler? No. Not like I get raid invites when Im on my Dirge and Warden. Do I get invites to PuRs when I send the tell saying Im available? Yes. I guess the point is that unlike some classes we are not NEEDED. Id invite a brawler to the raid any day of the week, one more body is one more body, but I wouldnt specifically search for one....and that is i think peoples problem.</p><p>Im glad you are so uber you can out DPS zerkers parsing in the 1200s. I (and others apparently) unfortuntly can't. 1100 seems to be my max. You are right we should NEVER be outparsed by a plate tank, but it does happen. </p><p>Bottom line is Brawlers need looking at. Im not sure what needs to be done and Im guessing neither does SOE, which is probabaly why nothing has been done. Give us more DPS, the scouts will cry. Make us better tanks, the fighters will cry. This isnt something I see going awa anytime soon, which is why Im building a Brigand/Tinker, so I can DPS, be valued on raids and FD when I need to <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>You don't need to tinker to FD on a brig.  They get it as an AA...

[Cocytus]

<cite>silentpsycho wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sugota@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>Gelinx@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>Quick question.  Are you having trouble getting invited to raids because people don't believe you have a role, or are you making raids but you just feel unimportant?  I will admit that we don't have any decent utility other than drag and the dps buff, but we still have a solid role as "puller, dps, and offtank". Oh yeah, other than AE fights, <b>you shouldn't be out-DPS'd by a plate tank</b>.  Even if one is pure DPS specced and the brawler is specced for more tanking ability.  I am never outdone by fighters on single target mobs when it comes to dps. </blockquote><p> On the first: Do I get invited to raids on my brawler? No. Not like I get raid invites when Im on my Dirge and Warden. Do I get invites to PuRs when I send the tell saying Im available? Yes. I guess the point is that unlike some classes we are not NEEDED. Id invite a brawler to the raid any day of the week, one more body is one more body, but I wouldnt specifically search for one....and that is i think peoples problem.</p><p>Im glad you are so uber you can out DPS zerkers parsing in the 1200s. I (and others apparently) unfortuntly can't. 1100 seems to be my max. You are right we should NEVER be outparsed by a plate tank, but it does happen. </p><p>Bottom line is Brawlers need looking at. Im not sure what needs to be done and Im guessing neither does SOE, which is probabaly why nothing has been done. Give us more DPS, the scouts will cry. Make us better tanks, the fighters will cry. This isnt something I see going awa anytime soon, which is why Im building a Brigand/Tinker, so I can DPS, be valued on raids and FD when I need to <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>You don't need to tinker to FD on a brig.  They get it as an AA... </blockquote> A brig who goes down that line is mentally challenged.

[Taiken]

<p>Yes, but just the fact you have access to that skill makes the brawler class less needed. In our selection bio it says that we can trick our foes into thinking we are dead.. What' the point of if everyone else can do it too?.. </p><p>We monks also share this same problem.. I've also started a rant page of my own, like Im sure the many of you have.. Please follow the link below:</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=371813" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=371813</a></p><p>I totally feel we got jipped and SOE really needs to fix this.. Who cares of a figher class cries that we get more avoidance.. So what?.. They are wearing plate armor. Hwo is it physically possible to avoid an attack as fast a trained monk who is wearing cloth/leather?.. We should be more flexiable so we can dodge?.</p><p>DPSER complaints?.. A monk is trained in combat! They train nonstop and develop wushu techniques that can do SEVERE dmage in real life.. Just like how a shield for a tank in real llife can keep you alive.. I think SOE needs to read up on what a monk is... And what exactly they can do. SOMEONE tell SOE devs to watch the movie fearless even.. Geez.. </p><p> I totally agree on that detaunt bs. It's funny... If we are a figher class, why do we have a detaunt when we need agg as a brawler?.. We cant even HOLD it.... IF we are a dpser.. We dont even do enough damage to even get agg.. Hilarous. Another useless AA. </p>

[Bobbette]

Well I actually like my detaunt ability, it's allowed me to stop losing dps by FD'ing to drop aggro nor does it require a healer to split between two tanks (if I'm not the MT I mean).  I don't need it nearly as much while raiding but I do keep it up so I don't have to worry about dropping aggro on the rare occasion I do get it. It's as easy to flip to Rumble as it is to change stances so I have no issues with toggling to suit the situation I'm in. That said, I do wish it wasn't so good so I could justify spending the points elsewhere.