Coercers need perma charm. [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Koltr

07-04-2007, 07:31 PM

Given that the Illusionist, necromancer, and the conjourer have pet spells that retains the pet until dismissed or the toon dies, I think the best overall solution, and the most fair all around is to make charm permanent for a coercer. Really. Just make the coercer's selection of a mob permanent until they manage to charm another pet. Golly, even a mystic has a perma pet. While a coercer can't seem to hold onto charmed pet for very long, or during zoning or any other transitional activity. It would solve a great deal of problems with the class, especially after the serious nerfs thrown in the coercer's direction over the life of the class. The ability to charm difficult mobs must be based on the grade of the charm spell. If that needs to be tweaked, so be it. When the coercer, intentionally releases the charmed pet, it should return to it's spawn location. Necros get to perma summon undead, conjourers perma summon elementals, illusionists perma induce shadow clones, coercers should be able to perma induce cooperation with mobs. PvP might be a problem, but prohibitting perma charm on a toon is probably a safe bet, especially if the coercer now has a pet that won't go AWOL when it's timer expires or it resist charm even though it failed to resist initially. That being said, the mob should still have the option of pounding the coercer to a pulp if they manage to resist the charm. When this is done, then the coercer will really be a coercer and not a class with features copied in so many other classes. How may classes can now summon pets, either through spell or AA lines? How many of those pets are perma summoned? So, I say, when the mob is no longer charmed, it should be able to wander back to it's home unmolested, as is the latest implimentation on test, that being said, it should NOT have the option of breaking charm once it has been place under a coercer's thrall.

Norrsken

07-05-2007, 02:22 AM

<cite>Koltran wrote:</cite><blockquote>Given that the Illusionist, necromancer, and the conjourer have pet spells that retains the pet until dismissed or the toon dies, I think the best overall solution, and the most fair all around is to make charm permanent for a coercer. Really. Just make the coercer's selection of a mob permanent until they manage to charm another pet. Golly, even a mystic has a perma pet. While a coercer can't seem to hold onto charmed pet for very long, or during zoning or any other transitional activity. It would solve a great deal of problems with the class, especially after the serious nerfs thrown in the coercer's direction over the life of the class. The ability to charm difficult mobs must be based on the grade of the charm spell. If that needs to be tweaked, so be it. When the coercer, intentionally releases the charmed pet, it should return to it's spawn location. Necros get to perma summon undead, conjourers perma summon elementals, illusionists perma induce shadow clones, coercers should be able to perma induce cooperation with mobs. PvP might be a problem, but prohibitting perma charm on a toon is probably a safe bet, especially if the coercer now has a pet that won't go AWOL when it's timer expires or it resist charm even though it failed to resist initially. That being said, the mob should still have the option of pounding the coercer to a pulp if they manage to resist the charm. When this is done, then the coercer will really be a coercer and not a class with features copied in so many other classes. How may classes can now summon pets, either through spell or AA lines? How many of those pets are perma summoned? So, I say, when the mob is no longer charmed, it should be able to wander back to it's home unmolested, as is the latest implimentation on test, that being said, it should NOT have the option of breaking charm once it has been place under a coercer's thrall.</blockquote>In pvp, charm is already horribly nerfed beyond beliefe. Its a 5 second cast 1-2 second duration stun more or less, so its useless already. And, the recent nerf/bug to charm actually warrants making charm Until Cancelled.

Controlor

07-05-2007, 03:52 AM

I have said in another post befor on here (even tho i am an illy) coercers should get a perma charm. BUT WITH RESTRICTIONS. The reason your charm is veriable is because you can get a variety of mobs (including ones that buff you). Where as the other classes cant. Also if you get a good pet it can put out some serious dps compared to illy personae as well as summon/necro. Both the true pet classes dps pets (scout or mage) will out dps an illy pet. So if a coercer gets a perma charm make it restrictive as it was in EQ1. So it would be you can only charm mobs like 10 lvls under you, and they dont scale up to your lvl. OR make it so you can only charm ^ and below no more ^^^ BUT you can perma charm a lvl 70 ^. This would put perma charms dps in line with the personae while maintaing dps under that of the true summoning classes.

Alienor

07-05-2007, 05:09 AM

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason your charm is veriable is because you can get a variety of mobs (including ones that buff you). That's what the class defines. Where as the other classes cant. That's what other classes defines. For this they get other abilities which the coercer doesn't have. Also if you get a good pet it can put out some serious dps compared to illy personae as well as summon/necro. I have only seen this with the famous mobs in Bonemire. Beside that leveling my necro was much much easier (and I am not speaking of the perma pet). Both the true pet classes dps pets (scout or mage) will out dps an illy pet. Every illy will out-mezz a pet class. What is your point? Do you want to have all classes the same? So it would be you can only charm mobs like 10 lvls under you, and they dont scale up to your lvl. The charmed pet does already not scale to my level. When I charm a pet in CL, it is still T2 and not lvl 70 as me. Not like the illy shadow btw. OR make it so you can only charm ^ and below no more ^^^ fantastic. Even more no-charm mobs. </blockquote>Actually after bringing subjugation to a higher value with the coercer aa, charm was much much more stable. For me it is like a perma charm. I just wish I could bring the candle down to other zones <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nodok

07-05-2007, 06:58 AM

This is a great idea, I'd love to be able to perma-charm something and drag it around the world with me. It would add a new level of fun and distinctiveness to the class, and boost our dps closer to other mages without silly tricks like dropping to 30% power. I'm not sure how useful it would be if it was restricted to lower level mobs though. I'd rather see the current system used where the mob is turned into a wimp but at least it can land hits/spells on what I'm fighting.

WasFycksir

07-05-2007, 09:56 AM

I like this idea alot. I have a 47 coercer on Nagafen and would love to have this setup.If I understand you correctly this would be "coercing the essence" of a mob. As in you grab it in a shadow form with all it's abilities and it now follows you around? I am sure the coding on this would be fun, but the idea goes well with the premise of the class. And god knows coercers could use some lovin' with the recent nerf to charms. Yes I am calling it a nerf, as no dev/soe response has been posted saying it was unintentional. That and the fact that a change in a spell mechanic of this magnitude made it through testing. It's hard to believe no one noticed this change to charms.

Life777form

07-05-2007, 10:48 AM

Has anyone actually parced a good charmed caster compared to other pets. It seems people think they are super powerful but they cast so slow I'd be surprised if they were all that.

Stuge

07-05-2007, 10:58 AM

I dislike this idea. They would have to drastically lower the effectiveness of our charms in return for making a charm permanent. There would be almost no risk to us at all and we would be devastatingly powerful if we could take our pick of mobs and drag it around the world with us. We would be absolutely broken. No. In order to implement that they would have to completely neuter our pets' abilities while charmed else we'd be far too powerful with no real risk to speak of. What they need to do is just fix the recent break of charm (the reset "bug&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and let us go about our merry way.

thebunny

07-05-2007, 12:03 PM

<cite>Life777form wrote:</cite><blockquote>Has anyone actually parced a good charmed caster compared to other pets. It seems people think they are super powerful but they cast so slow I'd be surprised if they were all that.</blockquote>When I was soloing in Rivervale, I parsed myself and a level 41 Darkflight Witch (think that's what they're called) one night. I found it to be very situational. If it was a short fight (say a green solo mob), pet was between 200-300 dps. If it was a long fight (say a blue heroic mob), pet was between 100-150 dps. Both were with me casting as well though - I think if I had let the pet cast alone, parses would have been lower.Regarding the OP's suggestion, I respectfully disagree. If they would just fix the GU36 bug/nerf/whatever, I'd be perfectly happy. For the most part it's not hard to keep a pet for the full duration, and even if it does break I personally enjoy the challenge of having to deal with the extra variable in the fight. In a group setting I could understand the issue, but I almost never charm in a group, and for solo play I think charm is fine the way it was.

Koltr

07-05-2007, 12:32 PM

Stugein@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I dislike this idea. They would have to drastically lower the effectiveness of our charms in return for making a charm permanent. There would be almost no risk to us at all and we would be devastatingly powerful if we could take our pick of mobs and drag it around the world with us. We would be absolutely broken. No. In order to implement that they would have to completely neuter our pets' abilities while charmed else we'd be far too powerful with no real risk to speak of. What they need to do is just fix the recent break of charm (the reset "bug"<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and let us go about our merry way. </blockquote>And how is that different than now? How effective is it to charm a mob, only to have it eat the coercer when things get dicy. What I am saying is this. Nearly all of the worthwhile pets are either immune or get a much higher resistance, anyways. Since the mob doesn't scale anyways, and hardly ever uses spells that it used prior to capture, I don't see how dumbing down the charm is appropriate anyways. What about charmed pets abilities hasn't been neutered already? Unless you have the master charm spell, or are playing in the lower tiers, charm is more of a secondary skill now than anything. Seriously. If you were in a raid and started to charm one of the secondaries, I'd boot you as fast as possible. As far as risk is concerned, there is still plenty. If you have the courage to attempt to charge an epic, and actually live to succeed, you should have the right to parade that puppy around anywhere you like. Of course, you are probably gonna need an entire raid to keep 'em off of you while the charm is happening, but in the end, the raid is gonna want to have you around. The only new thing I would insist on is a renaming of the pet as soon as capture has occurred so to prevent confusion and possible abuse. Once you level, the pet is probably gonna lose it's attraction anyways. Plus, when you die, *poof*, the pet goes home. To make it interesting, charm should induce a huge amount of hate, and in the event it fails, make the coercer the toon at the top of the hate list. Sort of what happens now, but to a greater degree. You should still have the same choice of mobs, or even an expanded menu. An app1-app4 charm should be highly resisted by ^ or better mobs. Adept1 spells should have a better chance at ^ but be higly resisted by ^^ and ^^^. Adept3 spells should have a better chance at ^^ and ^^^ but should have a huge resistance by ^^^x2 and up. And the master spell should have a better chance at the ^^^x2 but should still provide a high chance of failure. When is the last time you saw a coercer draggin around a ^^^ pet anyways? Unless they have the master spell, it is very rare. The coercer needs some lovin'. It's probably the least played class and does most of its damage when another party member is injured. Charmed pets in raids these days, you gotta be kidding me!

Life777form

07-05-2007, 12:52 PM

For me it would be nice to be able to take a break without pet breaking issues...I take a ton of breaks, other than that I don't see much diference.

Koltr

07-05-2007, 12:58 PM

<cite>WasFycksir wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like this idea alot. I have a 47 coercer on Nagafen and would love to have this setup.If I understand you correctly this would be "coercing the essence" of a mob. As in you grab it in a shadow form with all it's abilities and it now follows you around? I am sure the coding on this would be fun, but the idea goes well with the premise of the class. And god knows coercers could use some lovin' with the recent nerf to charms. Yes I am calling it a nerf, as no dev/soe response has been posted saying it was unintentional. That and the fact that a change in a spell mechanic of this magnitude made it through testing. It's hard to believe no one noticed this change to charms.</blockquote> That's primarily due to how few coercers are actually in infrequent use on test, that it never got noticed. I periodically roll one on test to see the latest changes, but, frankly, I'm not impressed. It's a frog in the pot situation. The coercer has been steadily nerfed from the beginning, and since the gods of balance have so far won the debate, they have also produced a class set that is for the most part plain vanilla. Yes, for the most part, the mob is destroyed on capture and recreated as a pet for the coercer, thus preventing the ring mob problem, that caused the devs to make them immune to charm. Here is a scenario: Coercer X wants to charm mob Y in ring Z. 1. Mob resists coercer has to try again after summoner length delay, meanwhile mob gets to pound on them. 2. Mob is charmed. 3. Mob disappears from world and toon gets credit for destroying them, including experience, status and quest updates. 4. Mob reappears as pet with new name, and spells and CA ranked to the level of charm spell rank. 5. Ring Z is not broken since mob is seen as destroyed. In addition, the devs could choose to add a second spell, that re-summons the last pet charmed in the event of death or dismissal. Since the spells and CA are rescaled to match the quality of either the charm or resummon spells, the effectiveness of the pet may go up or down depending on the quality of spell versus the quality of mob, but for the most part, it will be on par with the coercer's abilities. As far as coercer being overpowered, I cannot say that they have been overpowered for a long time. This change will not make them overpowered either, not any more than a necromancer or conjourer are already. A conj or necro with a master spell is pretty impressive, while a coercer with a master spell today is just an accident waiting to happen.

Koltr

07-05-2007, 01:33 PM

<cite>Nodok wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is a great idea, I'd love to be able to perma-charm something and drag it around the world with me. It would add a new level of fun and distinctiveness to the class, and boost our dps closer to other mages without silly tricks like dropping to 30% power. I'm not sure how useful it would be if it was restricted to lower level mobs though. I'd rather see the current system used where the mob is turned into a wimp but at least it can land hits/spells on what I'm fighting. </blockquote> I personally wouldn't want it to be restricted to lower level mobs either, nor do I like the current limitations for epic and other restricted or immune mobs. A charmed mob should essentially defeated, since they are under thrall to the coercer. What I am proposing is no different to what a conjourer or necromancer already does. The Conjourer opens a portal to one of the elemental planes and summons an elemental to do their bidding. A necromancer uses death magic or zombie worms to make an undead creature that is subject to them. The illusionist is fabricating an elaborate illusion from shadow stuff. In RL mythology, either activity is subject to great peril. The coercer is subjecting a mob to powerful control, which once a person is not rally different, and should be ore powerful, than what a necromancer or conjourer, can do. Especially since the mob is made of stuff from this plane and not from somewhere else. Seriously, why is the class called coercer, if all they do now is suggest, instead of actually coercing. Illusionists coerce the people arround them so strongly that everybody sees the shadow clone. Necromancers coerce the undead so strongly that the subdued pet will follow them to the ends of Norath. The conjourer coerces so strongly that they rip an elemental from its native plane and gets it to commit suicide on a whim. But alas, the coercer, merely gets to suggest to an ordinary mob, that could it, pretty please, pound on the mob he's selected, and gets thanked with the indignity of getting spanked if the mob doesn't like the idea much. Coercer, bah! Suggester maybe. A coercer should be able to go up to an epic, and if they are brave enough, and equipped with a master spell, get them to see it their way. Coercing them to follow them and do their bidding, and if they fail to do so, get flattened like a rotten grape, for being so brash!

Kardg

07-05-2007, 01:34 PM

<cite>Koltran wrote:</cite><blockquote>WasFycksir wrote: A conj or necro with a master spell is pretty impressive, while a coercer with a master spell today is just an accident waiting to happen. </blockquote> Isn't that the truth. There is so little attention our way, I don't expect them to fix the new bug any time soon, much like the huge nerf to Nek 3 that is still completely uncharmable and has been since GU 31. I've shelfed my Coercer for the most part excluding raid time, but its sad because he's my favorite for sure between my other 70's.I took him on an unrest run last week with his master I domination, +5 in enhanced charm and +70 to a maxed subjugation and watched one of those hell hounds break every thirty seconds to three minutes. All I kept hearing from our group, was did your pet break again? Kill the pet, put Impetus and HL on and forget about it. Wow that was fun.

Rarlin

07-05-2007, 01:43 PM

I also would repectfully disagree with these changes based upon the fact that if pets are what is truly desired, then the proper AA setup can almost equate to a perma-charm.However, it would be nice to be able to take pets to different zones... (just as long as they don't take the 18k nuke away from the Vamps in New Tunaria). <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Diadem1

07-05-2007, 05:24 PM

We dont need a perma charm. We DO need charm to be fixed up, its current state makes me sad to play my Coercer. I have pretty much given up soloing with him now, its group or play an alt. Being able to move pets over zone lines would be really nice, but not a "need to have". Some of the charm of the class is its unique relationship with finding interesting pets in each new zone. Get it? "charm"? I kill myself.

Life777form

07-05-2007, 06:19 PM

You will never be able to move pets over zones, you load all the models you need for each zone when yyou enter if charmed pets moved between zones you would have load every available model for every zone everytime you zoned. Something like that anyway. Your right that perma charmed isnt really needed, but it isn't overpowered either, it doesn't really change anything actually.

Diadem1

07-05-2007, 06:49 PM

<cite>Life777form wrote:</cite><blockquote>You will never be able to move pets over zones, you load all the models you need for each zone when yyou enter if charmed pets moved between zones you would have load every available model for every zone everytime you zoned. Something like that anyway. Your right that perma charmed isnt really needed, but it isn't overpowered either, it doesn't really change anything actually.</blockquote> I dont like to do design, that is best left to actual programmers. However, your point is interesting. Even if you only loaded one extra model that was not present in that zone, everyone else would need to load it as well to see your pet too. As new non-indigenous pets arrived they would either need to load on the fly or be pre-loaded as you suggest. A pretty simple alternative would be to implement a "shadowy cloud" or some other generic model for cross zone pets.

Obsidiann

07-05-2007, 08:05 PM

<cite>Life777form wrote:</cite><blockquote>A pretty simple alternative would be to implement a "shadowy cloud" or some other generic model for cross zone pets. </blockquote> Judging by the fact that I still get plat spam ads every 2-3 minutes, SOE is not interested in simple alternatives and fixes.

Flipmode

07-05-2007, 10:28 PM

I think this is a good idea. Seriously, what other restrictions can be placed on our charms? They already are lowered to a solo ^ in hitpoints and have a chance to break every 30 seconds. That is a double penalty and its unwarranted for the mobs we can actually charm. And if you havent noticed lately, more and more mobs are uncharmable. We only have a couple good pets to charm in a couple of zones. Other than that, our pet choices are horrible. I am all for a perma charm with no additional restrictions. So what if the illusionist pet doesnt do as much as some charmed pets. makes of for the DPS difference between the classes.

Ran

07-06-2007, 03:24 AM

<cite>Diadem1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>We dont need a perma charm. We DO need charm to be fixed up, its current state makes me sad to play my Coercer. I have pretty much given up soloing with him now, its group or play an alt. Being able to move pets over zone lines would be really nice, but not a "need to have". Some of the charm of the class is its unique relationship with finding interesting pets in each new zone. Get it? "charm"? I kill myself. </blockquote>/agreeperma charm would make us to bad illu copies and i dont want an easy button like a perma pet.

Oriax

07-06-2007, 02:15 PM

I'd be happy if they'd just get this charm break/release problem fixed and released the uncharmablility on all mobs that are currently uncharmable. Of course named mobs, quest named mobs and epics would still be uncharmable.

Life777form

07-06-2007, 04:24 PM

Oriax@Runnyeye wrote: <blockquote>I'd be happy if they'd just get this charm break/release problem fixed and released the uncharmablility on all mobs that are currently uncharmable. Of course named mobs, quest named mobs and epics would still be uncharmable.</blockquote> I second getting rid of uncharmables, nothing annoys me more than trying to charm some misc trash mob only to not be able to.

Indrim

07-06-2007, 06:18 PM

The problem with having a class that is neither a pure dmg class nor a pet class is that it puts you into a hybrid status -and we all know hybrids just dont work. You may enjoy being a stun/regen/buff bot -theres nothing wrong with it- but the primary draw to a coercer is the ability to charm, and its nearly worthless.Developers and designers are so worried about keeping player mechanics locked down that they have removed a lot of the flavor from the game.The reason EQ1 is remembered so fondly is mostly that players had freedom to take fairly simple mechanics of a class and use them to shine. (Players with real skill immediately stood out). Think of FD pulling, kiting, good CC vs bad. Enchanters were not primarily a pet class, but for a while they could charm a pet with great risk, and reap the rewards (this didnt matter because the enchanter was CC)What I've noticed about EQ2 is that they have removed the player interaction. Encounters, Mes being far far less used than it was in EQ1, No FD pulling, and in general every class can do a little bit of everything. Overall its enjoyable, but it just doesnt offer any real excitement.I remember getting my AE mes and being disappointed that it applied to encounters only. I remember saying to a friend in vent "So let me get this straight.. I can pull 10 mobs that are singles, and I have no hope of surviving because I cannot AE stun or mes them all, but if the game determines they are an "encounter" I can easily manage all of them?"Its disappointing and unnecessary.I really hope RoK allows for a little more player skill and less of the game playing for you. I am unable to keep friends playing for more than a month, and they are EQ players. They all say the same thing "something is missing, but I dont know what".

Life777form

07-06-2007, 09:00 PM

The whole encounter setup is the single dumbest thing in this game.

Rythen16

07-07-2007, 12:27 PM

Perma charm would further nerf our class. If perma charm is given, then the charmed mobs would have to be gimped even more than the currently are. Charming is a risk vs. reward ability. They only need to fix a couple things about the current charm system and charm will return to its usefulness from before. Right now, charm is a risky ability with no reward. 1) Return most mobs that they made "uncharmable" into being able to charm again. Most of these mobs they made uncharmable are not overpowered monsters. Yes, some mobs need to be uncharmable-- quest named mobs, named mobs and ring event mobs. Those should be the only uncharmable mobs in the game. But, when the devs made normal, everyday mobs uncharmable, they are basically telling us that we can't do a class defining ability. 2) Fix the bug that makes the mob run back to its spawn point immediately after breaking charm. If this is an intentional addition to the game, then it was implemented poorly. Since we cannot control when charm breaks, losing our charmed pet like this is totally unfair. I can see if the coercer cancelled the charm that this should happen, but when charm breaks by itself, then the mob immediately running away makes charm even less desirable. Why would you go halfway across a zone to charm a mob and drag it back to where you need it if when charm breaks it will sprint away?3) Make charm and the illusionist's pet cost one concentration slot-- you know, like the other classes that can charm or have a pet. Why are we being punished with taking three concentration slots? Taken from the Coercer description on <a href="http://everquest2.station.sony.com/en/main.vm#professionCoercer" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://everquest2.station.sony.com/...ofessionCoercer</a>:"The Coercer is capable of subdoing enemies, sending them into a paralyzing state of fascination or causing them to flee in uncontrollable terror. Masters of domination, Coercers can subjugate the mind of another, taking complete control and forcing an unwitting creature to do their bidding."We are nowhere near "Masters of domination" with the current charm ability. When in groups, others do not want us to have a charmed pet. I guess we are not masters at domination.

Trunkman

07-07-2007, 10:33 PM

No way! you want to nerf a class which has been nerfed more and more every update with restictions like that on one of our main strategies? you're kidding... for a class that is defined by its ability to coerce the enemy to be under its control the coercer's charm is already weak enough. if you want a perma pet, make a necro or conj.I would rather have it fixed to pre LU36. Like was mentioned earlier, with the new subjudication limit raises and new equipment and aa lines with +sub, it virtually is a perma pet.

Life777form

07-07-2007, 11:18 PM

Perma charmed wouldn't be overpowered at all, there is no real risk vrs reward, theres only enough to get by or nothing at all.

MerleApAmber

07-09-2007, 03:50 AM

I would not be for perma-charm.

Norrsken

07-09-2007, 08:13 AM

<cite>Rythen16 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perma charm would further nerf our class. If perma charm is given, then the charmed mobs would have to be gimped even more than the currently are. Charming is a risk vs. reward ability. They only need to fix a couple things about the current charm system and charm will return to its usefulness from before. Right now, charm is a risky ability with no reward. 1) Return most mobs that they made "uncharmable" into being able to charm again. Most of these mobs they made uncharmable are not overpowered monsters. Yes, some mobs need to be uncharmable-- quest named mobs, named mobs and ring event mobs. Those should be the only uncharmable mobs in the game. But, when the devs made normal, everyday mobs uncharmable, they are basically telling us that we can't do a class defining ability. 2) Fix the bug that makes the mob run back to its spawn point immediately after breaking charm. If this is an intentional addition to the game, then it was implemented poorly. Since we cannot control when charm breaks, losing our charmed pet like this is totally unfair. I can see if the coercer cancelled the charm that this should happen, but when charm breaks by itself, then the mob immediately running away makes charm even less desirable. Why would you go halfway across a zone to charm a mob and drag it back to where you need it if when charm breaks it will sprint away?3) Make charm and the illusionist's pet cost one concentration slot-- you know, like the other classes that can charm or have a pet. Why are we being punished with taking three concentration slots? Taken from the Coercer description on <a href="http://everquest2.station.sony.com/en/main.vm#professionCoercer" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://everquest2.station.sony.com/...ofessionCoercer</a>:"The Coercer is capable of subdoing enemies, sending them into a paralyzing state of fascination or causing them to flee in uncontrollable terror. Masters of domination, Coercers can subjugate the mind of another, taking complete control and forcing an unwitting creature to do their bidding."We are nowhere near "Masters of domination" with the current charm ability. When in groups, others do not want us to have a charmed pet. I guess we are not masters at domination.</blockquote>They actually broke the risk vs reward thing in gu36. Now I can charm any mob I wish, and it poses no danger to me whatsoever since it will return to its spawn point when charm breaks. Im having a blast charming high orange mobs and mowing down anything yellow in my path. Charm breaks? Well, just mez the yellow mob (or stun or root depending onw hat you need to do with dots and stuff) and yell or charm it.

Koltr

08-04-2007, 05:42 PM

Maybe we are talking semantics here? The illusionist shouldn't have a spell called Charm, but instead they should have a spell that studies the mob during an encounter and another skill that can recreate that mob as an illusion at a later encounter. The coercer doesn't need a spell called something as weak as Charm, they need a spell called Coerce, which dominates the mind of the mob and forces it to conform to the will of the Coercer until released. A second spell called Command, would bring the Mob back at the coercer's wish. Neither of these approaches take away from the classes in any way at all. Period. If you think all of the other sundry skills doled out to the enchanter classes are more important, how accommodating! If you are worried about how the devs will nerf the pet skills to answer some whining complaint about imbalance, then you have already lost the class to mediocrity. The devs have lots of great ideas, but are often forced to abandon them because three thousand whining babies want some other class nerfed into oblivion. The class to get nerfed the absolute most, has been, hands down, the coercer. A six second AA charm that you cannot use unless you are TRYING to grief somebody. Might as well put a flag in the spell that automatically gets you banned when you use it... We have healers, we have tanks, we have scouts, we have magic users, and we have mana batteries. We don't have enchanters. Nope, none, zip, nada! If by some amazing act of clearheadedness somebody actually implements half of what I suggested, the coercer could actually be worth playing. Everybody assumes when they start the game, and I have heard this a bunch of times, that the coercer is a powerful class, so they roll one, struggle a while, and finally give up when disillusionment finally sets in. If they stick it out, they find thier role dwindling to being somebody you bring along on a raid to cast reactives that cause damage, if the mystic's wards are spent, the fighter's taunts fail, the templar's damage shields are breached, and the wizards are all out of pink rabbits. Why aint that sweet! We get to refuel the mana pool between battles, deflect a little agro, and get beat up if our reactives ever actually fire off, just so everyone can say during the wipe that is was all the coercer's fault. What we don't get to do, is anything actually related to coercion, charming, mind diddling, or anything thing else remotely related to the class description. Gives me goose bumps just thinking about all those happy times, when a big beasty, I would love to be able to coerce shows up, and all I can do is say alas, I'm not really an enchanter, coercer, illusionist, oh but I'll top off your mana, mister.