Soulfire Staff Absolve Vitae proc [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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evhallion

07-03-2007, 08:35 PM

Does anyone else think this fabled proc is under powered as compared to the legendary Grizzfazzle's Rage proc?Absolve Vitae will proc about 370 heat damage and heal 300 1.8 times per minuteGrizzfazzle's Rage will proc 300-560 heat damage 2 times per minuteSo do people consider the heal to offset the damage output or is it just the +75 spell damage making this staff great?Also with the change from 2h to 1h staff the disruption was dropped and focus was kept, which do you mages prefer disruption or focus if you have to choose one?Anyhow would love to hear other mages input.

QQ-Fatman

07-03-2007, 10:07 PM

If it is a mana heal instead of a heal, then I'd say it's a nice staff. Otherwise, they'll need to double the proc damage.

InsertNeko

07-04-2007, 03:00 PM

<cite>QQ-Fatman wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it is a mana heal instead of a heal, then I'd say it's a nice staff. Otherwise, they'll need to double the proc damage.</blockquote> Disruption over Focus any day, and for this to be the EoF epic questline, more of a proc would be nice. I'm still in the air over if this is better than Griz or not. A mana proc on this however, would be way too awesome.

Soul_Dreamer

07-05-2007, 06:44 AM

Needs to be increased by alot or it just sucks, I kinda knew this was going to happen though which is why I didn't bother doing the PoS quest series.What would be cool though is if on some of these many heal proccing items you could choose who to channel the heal to and make it so only one of each type can be on any given person.As it is these type of crappy healing procs are just a waste, the Warding procs are a bit more useful however.

MadLordOfMilk

07-06-2007, 03:30 PM

*Ahem* You'll probably get at least 15 times the +75dmg of the staff per min due to the number of spells you cast, sooo (assuming max dmg from grizzfazzle's)... oh, and 15*75=1125 Grizzfazzle's: 560x2 = 1120dmg/min Soulfire Staff: 370 *1.8 = 666dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 1791dmg/min Of course, DoT spells and so forth muck it up a bit, but the bonus is going to be much, much higher. Let's assume they both proc more often than they say and re-do the math: Grizz: 560x3 = 1680dmg/min Soulfire: 370 * 2.7 = 999dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 2124dmg/min Where it about evens out: Grizz: 560x6 = 3360dmg/min Soulfire: 370 * 5.4 = 1998dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 3123dmg/min So unless items proc three times more than they say they do and Grizz hit's EVERY time for max damage, Grizzfazzle's is worse... hell even IF they do and you can still get 17 x +75dmg (depends on your spell lineup of course), Soulfire jumps ahead by 63dmg/min <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dextera

07-07-2007, 06:44 AM

Kraaj@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote>*Ahem* You'll probably get at least 15 times the +75dmg of the staff per min due to the number of spells you cast, sooo (assuming max dmg from grizzfazzle's)... oh, and 15*75=1125 Grizzfazzle's: 560x2 = 1120dmg/min Soulfire Staff: 370 *1.8 = 666dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 1791dmg/min Of course, DoT spells and so forth muck it up a bit, but the bonus is going to be much, much higher. Let's assume they both proc more often than they say and re-do the math: Grizz: 560x3 = 1680dmg/min Soulfire: 370 * 2.7 = 999dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 2124dmg/min Where it about evens out: Grizz: 560x6 = 3360dmg/min Soulfire: 370 * 5.4 = 1998dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 3123dmg/min So unless items proc three times more than they say they do and Grizz hit's EVERY time for max damage, Grizzfazzle's is worse... hell even IF they do and you can still get 17 x +75dmg (depends on your spell lineup of course), Soulfire jumps ahead by 63dmg/min <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>While your conclusion is right (the basic idea), your math is a little off. Procs are not affected by +spell damage because they have a cast time of 0 (Proc Rate * Cast Time / 3.0.) Also, since the +75 acts like a Bolt of Energy effect, it will affect other classes differently since the BoE is normalized too. For example, +75 Spell Damage will give me (as a Wizard) an approximate increase of +30dmg per spell cast. This would equate to around 600dmg per minute (usually around 20 spell casts in a minute for a Wizard.) This would still make the Soulfire Staff better than Grizzfazzle's for Wizards but this may differ from class to class. Besides, the Crystallized Wand of Plasma is better than both Grizz and Soulfire for straight DPS.

Selioth

07-07-2007, 10:39 PM

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Kraaj@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote>*Ahem* You'll probably get at least 15 times the +75dmg of the staff per min due to the number of spells you cast, sooo (assuming max dmg from grizzfazzle's)... oh, and 15*75=1125 Grizzfazzle's: 560x2 = 1120dmg/min Soulfire Staff: 370 *1.8 = 666dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 1791dmg/min Of course, DoT spells and so forth muck it up a bit, but the bonus is going to be much, much higher. Let's assume they both proc more often than they say and re-do the math: Grizz: 560x3 = 1680dmg/min Soulfire: 370 * 2.7 = 999dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 2124dmg/min Where it about evens out: Grizz: 560x6 = 3360dmg/min Soulfire: 370 * 5.4 = 1998dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 3123dmg/min So unless items proc three times more than they say they do and Grizz hit's EVERY time for max damage, Grizzfazzle's is worse... hell even IF they do and you can still get 17 x +75dmg (depends on your spell lineup of course), Soulfire jumps ahead by 63dmg/min <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>While your conclusion is right (the basic idea), your math is a little off. Procs are not affected by +spell damage because they have a cast time of 0 (Proc Rate * Cast Time / 3.0.) Also, since the +75 acts like a Bolt of Energy effect, it will affect other classes differently since the BoE is normalized too. For example, +75 Spell Damage will give me (as a Wizard) an approximate increase of +30dmg per spell cast. This would equate to around 600dmg per minute (usually around 20 spell casts in a minute for a Wizard.) This would still make the Soulfire Staff better than Grizzfazzle's for Wizards but this may differ from class to class. Besides, the Crystallized Wand of Plasma is better than both Grizz and Soulfire for straight DPS. </blockquote>Its a +75 not a + by up to 75 it will still be normalized but not to the extent of a "by up to"

WAPCE

07-07-2007, 11:00 PM

Anoo@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Kraaj@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote>*Ahem* You'll probably get at least 15 times the +75dmg of the staff per min due to the number of spells you cast, sooo (assuming max dmg from grizzfazzle's)... oh, and 15*75=1125 Grizzfazzle's: 560x2 = 1120dmg/min Soulfire Staff: 370 *1.8 = 666dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 1791dmg/min Of course, DoT spells and so forth muck it up a bit, but the bonus is going to be much, much higher. Let's assume they both proc more often than they say and re-do the math: Grizz: 560x3 = 1680dmg/min Soulfire: 370 * 2.7 = 999dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 2124dmg/min Where it about evens out: Grizz: 560x6 = 3360dmg/min Soulfire: 370 * 5.4 = 1998dmg/min + (15 * 75) = 3123dmg/min So unless items proc three times more than they say they do and Grizz hit's EVERY time for max damage, Grizzfazzle's is worse... hell even IF they do and you can still get 17 x +75dmg (depends on your spell lineup of course), Soulfire jumps ahead by 63dmg/min <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>While your conclusion is right (the basic idea), your math is a little off. Procs are not affected by +spell damage because they have a cast time of 0 (Proc Rate * Cast Time / 3.0.) Also, since the +75 acts like a Bolt of Energy effect, it will affect other classes differently since the BoE is normalized too. For example, +75 Spell Damage will give me (as a Wizard) an approximate increase of +30dmg per spell cast. This would equate to around 600dmg per minute (usually around 20 spell casts in a minute for a Wizard.) This would still make the Soulfire Staff better than Grizzfazzle's for Wizards but this may differ from class to class. Besides, the Crystallized Wand of Plasma is better than both Grizz and Soulfire for straight DPS. </blockquote>Its a +75 not a + by up to 75 it will still be normalized but not to the extent of a "by up to" </blockquote>False. It normalizes the exact same as BoE (junk).

MadLordOfMilk

07-08-2007, 02:02 PM

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>While your conclusion is right (the basic idea), your math is a little off. Procs are not affected by +spell damage because they have a cast time of 0 (Proc Rate * Cast Time / 3.0.) Also, since the +75 acts like a Bolt of Energy effect, it will affect other classes differently since the BoE is normalized too. For example, +75 Spell Damage will give me (as a Wizard) an approximate increase of +30dmg per spell cast. This would equate to around 600dmg per minute (usually around 20 spell casts in a minute for a Wizard.) This would still make the Soulfire Staff better than Grizzfazzle's for Wizards but this may differ from class to class. Besides, the Crystallized Wand of Plasma is better than both Grizz and Soulfire for straight DPS. </blockquote>I never said they were <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The 15 * 75 is assuming you could get ~15 3-second casting time spells off to get the full 75dmg boost (takes up ~52sec with recovery times); with lower cast times you'd get more off and maybe get somewhat less of a boost because of recoveries, but I also assumed max damage for Grizzfazzle's procs, so as far as estimates go it's fairly accurate. In any case, Soulfire obliterates Grizzfazzle's.

Bright_Morn

07-09-2007, 01:02 PM

You may also want to compare it to the staff off of the avatars. The <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/items/item_profile.vm?itemId=151190" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Staff of Light</a> which is the non-shared loot off of the Avatar of Flame.

PaganSaint

07-09-2007, 01:12 PM

It is worse than the staff of light, much better than the grizzfazzle's and either slightly ahead of or slightly behind the wand of crystallized plasma depending upon how much spell haste you have.

Wrapye

07-09-2007, 01:35 PM

And depending on whether or not +X damage modifiers work on all your damage spells. Which they don't for enchanters.

PaganSaint

07-09-2007, 02:16 PM

They do not work on the reactives, but they work on all DD and straight DoTs, not DoTs that are also debuffs for some reason.

Mareth

07-09-2007, 06:07 PM

Hellswrath

07-09-2007, 06:37 PM

With the normalization curve, the +75 spell damage is very overrated for some classes, such as enchanters(already mentioned) and warlocks. For warlocks, the +damage is not only normalized for our casting times, but also for our target encounter spells. Basically, if we are not hitting the max number of mobs with our target encounter spells, we will not see the full benefit from this bonus. For example, a casting of Apocalypse meets the 3 sec casting time normalization, but gets hit on the number of targets the spell can hit. A +25 spell damage adornment only increases the damage of apocalypse by 1 damage per tick. +75 spell damage would give me +3 damage per tick..... yay.I agree that the fabled version is better than grizzfazzles. Definitely. However, the legendary is not and in order to get the fabled, you have probably already gotten better from raiding.

Dextera

07-09-2007, 07:09 PM

Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>With the normalization curve, the +75 spell damage is very overrated for some classes, such as enchanters(already mentioned) and warlocks. For warlocks, the +damage is not only normalized for our casting times, but also for our target encounter spells. Basically, if we are not hitting the max number of mobs with our target encounter spells, we will not see the full benefit from this bonus. For example, a casting of Apocalypse meets the 3 sec casting time normalization, but gets hit on the number of targets the spell can hit. A +25 spell damage adornment only increases the damage of apocalypse by 1 damage per tick. +75 spell damage would give me +3 damage per tick..... yay.I agree that the fabled version is better than grizzfazzles. Definitely. However, the legendary is not and in order to get the fabled, you have probably already gotten better from raiding.</blockquote>However, AoE classes like the Warlock can easily hit for more than the displayed spell damage. Since the +25 spell damage adorn is broken down by number of ticks and max targets of Apocolypse (Max Targets caps at 5), you're gaining 5dmg overall (25/5=5). You also need to hit at least 5 targets with Apoc to get the complete +spell damage adorn (25.) But, if you hit more than 5 targets with it, you're gaining [(Targets - 5) *5] extra damage. So the larger the group, the more of a benefit it provides.Also, spell damage increase (both Bolt of Energy and the +% mod that Vine-wrapped Boots) is capped a certain percent of the base damage. So adding further spell damage will eventually net no return, but this mainly affects low dmg DoT classes like Enchanters and Summoners to a lesser extent.

PaganSaint

07-09-2007, 07:59 PM

<cite>Mareth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>They do not work on the reactives, but they work on all DD and straight DoTs, not DoTs that are also debuffs for some reason. </blockquote>Actually, they give more than the listed amount of the Icicle line of wizard debuff/dot. </blockquote> Didn't know that, thanks for the heads up.

Wrapye

07-10-2007, 12:07 PM

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>They do not work on the reactives, but they work on all DD and straight DoTs, not DoTs that are also debuffs for some reason. </blockquote>I ran the numbers, comparing the Soulfire Staff against an item with nearly the same +Int but with no +X bonus - Grizzfazzle's Walking Stick. There are 13 spells that coercers cast that potentially cause damage (I'm ignoring the final spell from Bloodlines in this but am including Master Strike). That includes health damage and power damage. Six spells get no benefit at all. Those are the three main reactive spells (auspex, spell scourge and cataclysmic mind), the reactive on harmonius link and the power damage components of deep focus and harrowing silence. Two spells get some benefit, but not to all of the spell. Breakdown gets a bonus to the DoT portion but not the damage on termination. Vicious torment gets it to the health damage DoT but not the power damage DoT. Only Stroke, Ego Torrent, Sonic Boom, Perilous Gaze and Master Strike got the bonus in full. Even then Perilous Gaze got only 5 points per tick, as it is both an AoE (divide by 3) and a DoT (divide by 5).

Mareth

07-10-2007, 02:30 PM

Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>I agree that the fabled version is better than grizzfazzles. Definitely. However, the legendary is not and in order to get the fabled, you have probably already gotten better from raiding.</blockquote>The only item better than the fabled reward you can get from raiding, is the Staff of Light, which most likely, only one guild on each server will get their hands on. The Unrest wand however, which isn't something you get from raiding, probably beats the Soulfire weapon <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Hellswrath

07-12-2007, 10:38 AM

<cite>Mareth wrote:</cite><blockquote> The Unrest wand however, which isn't something you get from raiding, probably beats the Soulfire weapon <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> I know it is close. I think it depends a little on what class you are because of the +spell damage aspect.

Hellswrath

07-12-2007, 10:44 AM

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Hellswrath@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote>With the normalization curve, the +75 spell damage is very overrated for some classes, such as enchanters(already mentioned) and warlocks. For warlocks, the +damage is not only normalized for our casting times, but also for our target encounter spells. Basically, if we are not hitting the max number of mobs with our target encounter spells, we will not see the full benefit from this bonus. For example, a casting of Apocalypse meets the 3 sec casting time normalization, but gets hit on the number of targets the spell can hit. A +25 spell damage adornment only increases the damage of apocalypse by 1 damage per tick. +75 spell damage would give me +3 damage per tick..... yay.I agree that the fabled version is better than grizzfazzles. Definitely. However, the legendary is not and in order to get the fabled, you have probably already gotten better from raiding.</blockquote>However, AoE classes like the Warlock can easily hit for more than the displayed spell damage. Since the +25 spell damage adorn is broken down by number of ticks and max targets of Apocolypse (Max Targets caps at 5), you're gaining 5dmg overall (25/5=5). You also need to hit at least 5 targets with Apoc to get the complete +spell damage adorn (25.) But, if you hit more than 5 targets with it, you're gaining [(Targets - 5) *5] extra damage. So the larger the group, the more of a benefit it provides.Also, spell damage increase (both Bolt of Energy and the +% mod that Vine-wrapped Boots) is capped a certain percent of the base damage. So adding further spell damage will eventually net no return, but this mainly affects low dmg DoT classes like Enchanters and Summoners to a lesser extent. </blockquote>oh, btw. You can only hit a max of 5 targets with Apocalypse. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Not to mention that 5+ mob encounters are not terribly common.The point is that the usefulness of these bonuses is limited for some classes. Unless I'm going up against those rather uncommon encounters of 5+, it is less useful for my class than a decent damage proc or the damage bonus from the unrest wand.

Caetrel

07-18-2007, 01:41 AM

When guilds rush to Trodonis to get their fabled rewards, mages are like the kids at a Christmas where all the other kids get something cool and we get coal. +75 spell damage, as we all know, is pretty useless. +7 focus....ugh...I'd trade that for +1 disruption. If the proc did power, even a small amount of power, instead of health, and if the focus was replaced by +disruption, this would be on par with the other SoD rewards and more in line with the progression of other mage 1 handers.

Triste-Lune

07-18-2007, 04:37 AM

up to dmg is just [I cannot control my vocabulary] it s not worth it for so many class the normalisation just [I cannot control my vocabulary] any worth it could have had. the proc damage is wank compared to any other procing item from the previous expansions (heck even godking is better) not to mention that the proc isnt procing often enought. Our conj parsed 91 proc out of 1894 spells casted by him in fth (he had his pet named differently to not mess up with the parse.) Edit : btw our conjuror had a dirgue with luck in his group...

Sabutai

07-19-2007, 03:11 PM

this staff is junk, over raids in 3 different zones this thing does not proc 1.8 times a min. Last night in Freethinkers was the highest dps wise at 14 but I don't see this staff as better than crystallized wand.

Inggy

07-19-2007, 03:33 PM

Different thread but Sabutai and I have already looked at this weapon and made comments.<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=372206" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=372206</a>ATM the jury's still out but it does look parse wise this the proc and +mod just doesn't compare to existing proc/dmg mod weapons.

Hellswrath

07-26-2007, 04:56 PM

Thanks for the info, Oyce. One more nail in the coffin for the Soulfire. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mastire

07-30-2007, 02:23 AM

The best caster wand, that doesn't require killing an avatar is the cystalized wand from Unrest. For a Sorc that is. For an enchanter chel's dagger is probably better. Next to that I would put this staff.

simpwrx02

07-30-2007, 11:10 AM

I did some basic calculation on a different thread and I dont feel liek redoing them, but anyways if the +75 sepll damage got it's full affect it woudl add 1500 damage per minute and the proc aound 500 or so, the Wand of Crystalized plasma was better if you could do ~1200 dps before the proc assuming no spell haste. Since this assumes that the + spell damage actaully maxes out, which we all know is a load of poo the actually dps to out do is probably closer to 1000 which any one who can get the fabled soulfire can more than likely pull of with little effort. The other thing that makes the Wand of Crystalized plasma better is that it can proc on anyspell including beneficial spells to the group, non damage debuffs, it even procs a lot of the time from my wizzy port.