When to go Unarmed?

[Mathaleus]

I've just recently started a monk, and was wondering at what point does the STR AA overcome having a mastercrafted weapon?  I'm currently 4-4-3, and figured I'd probably stop using the mastercrafted weapons when I hit 4-4-4-1 at least.  He's currently only a lvl 19 monk, and wanted to see if I needed to bother with make the T3 mastercrafted weapons, since I'm sure I'll have at least 2 AA before I hit 22. 

[Wildfury77]

<p>err.....you do realise you get more consistent DPS from dual wield imbued <u>adorned</u> weapons? strength line is not good unless u plan on saving some cash <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Lvl 19 the best weapon is probably dual </p><p>aITEM -1443332993 -1878164570:Blightfang Venom Cestus/a</p><p>Adorned obviously. DR 11.1 with better stats than MC more than covers the loss of the proc. Unless you plan on saving cash or are into roleplaying.....respec.</p>

[Mathaleus]

<p>Well, my understanding from the monk in my guild is that STR line is the best way to go for DPS, unless you have fabled weapons.  And as I solely solo with him, the riposte seems like it'd help on the defensive side.</p><p> I currently have imbued mastercrafted weapons with the vampiric adornments, and have the stuff to make mastercrafted imbued weapons when he hits 22.  I don't plan on buying anything for this toon, other than the cost of fuel for having ad3s, weapons, armor made...just made him to have fun with when I want to take a break from my lvl 70 toons.  Even have combat xp off, so I can use him to farm for transmuting, which I finally decided to take up with my main.  It's easy to get the mastercrafted stuff, but as I said, the monk in my guild said to get STR done first, and it seemed like wise advice to me.</p>

[Junaru]

<cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>err.....you do realise you get more consistent DPS from dual wield imbued <u>adorned</u> weapons? strength line is not good unless u plan on saving some cash <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Lvl 19 the best weapon is probably dual </p><p>aITEM -1443332993 -1878164570:Blightfang Venom Cestus/a</p><p>Adorned obviously. DR 11.1 with better stats than MC more than covers the loss of the proc. Unless you plan on saving cash or are into roleplaying.....respec.</p></blockquote>Geez he knows more about the class then you and he's only L19. I waited till I had enough points to max out STR(3) before losing the weapons. I just put them in another tree till I had enough and then just respecced. STA would make for a good tree to go down till you have enough to max STR(3) Also don't bother putting points into the 4th tier unless you are planning on soloing alot or tanking. If you want pure DPS there is no need to put any points into. Also MAX out STR(3) at 8 points before spending anything anywhere else. Not many people know this but you don't have to put any points into the 4th tier to get the end ability. You only need to spend 22 points. 6,8,8.0.1 is a DPS build if you are looking for end abilities. Granted 2 points into the 4th tier is smarter IMHO then using 6 points into the base tier but like I said for pure DPS 6,8,8,0,1 is the way to go.

[shonuf]

i went unarmed when i hit 4-4-6 in str...then maxed after finishing the 2pts for the max dbl attack, i went right down the int. line...and wow..has the extra crit helped.

[Wildfury77]

<cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>err.....you do realise you get more consistent DPS from dual wield imbued <u>adorned</u> weapons? strength line is not good unless u plan on saving some cash <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Lvl 19 the best weapon is probably dual </p><p>aITEM -1443332993 -1878164570:Blightfang Venom Cestus/a</p><p>Adorned obviously. DR 11.1 with better stats than MC more than covers the loss of the proc. Unless you plan on saving cash or are into roleplaying.....respec.</p></blockquote>Geez he knows more about the class then you and he's only L19. <span style="color: #ff0000"><b><u>Really sorry but he doesn't and you are misinforming people on this forum - explanation below!! </u></b></span> I waited till I had enough points to max out STR(3) before losing the weapons. I just put them in another tree till I had enough and then just respecced. STA would make for a good tree to go down till you have enough to max STR(3) Also don't bother putting points into the 4th tier unless you are planning on soloing alot or tanking. If you want pure DPS there is no need to put any points into. Also MAX out STR(3) at 8 points before spending anything anywhere else. Not many people know this but you don't have to put any points into the 4th tier to get the end ability. You only need to spend 22 points. 6,8,8.0.1 is a DPS build if you are looking for end abilities. Granted 2 points into the 4th tier is smarter IMHO then using 6 points into the base tier but like I said for pure DPS 6,8,8,0,1 is the way to go. </blockquote><p>I'm a PvP monk Lvl 33, 54 AA (limited to 49 since last GU) There was a glitch that let us reset AA evertime we zoned.....let me parse and try out dozens of combos.</p><p>@ Tier 4 using dual wield MC imbued adorned - i found strength didn't match Int 4/4/8/6/1 Wis 4/6/8/4/1.....<i><u>and this WASN'T even the optimum DPS parse</u></i> - i picked this combo to help me tank and PvP. FAR more DPS can be gained from Wis 4/4/8 Int 4/4/8 Sta 4/4/8 using imbued MC adorned dual wields ----> i dread to think how lame strength line would be compared to fabled. This is fact - parse it for yourself & read some of the more current threads (There was an argument that this combo was better before you could adorn imbued weapons BTW...the case is shut since you now can <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</p><p>AT tier 4 the best DPS (PvPers probably the only ones that will be mad enough to gun for these) is using</p><p>aITEM 968581212 1739234664:<b><span style="color: #0000ff">Rock-Forged Cestii</span></b>/a <b><u>x2 (From Coldtooth in TS) </u></b></p><p><b>The other thing you get from weapons e.g. Feysteel Mc is stats (on top of being able to spend AA more prudently)......Feysteel example is +28str +28agility (avoidance) +20 health +10 power.</b></p>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Before adornments were out (pre-EoF) I did parsing at around mid 60s up to lvl 70. Unarmed beat MC weapons hands down if you went Str/Wis/Int 4, 4, 8. Also, I tested zonewide parsing of doing instances, not just when I had Crane Flock up for the weapon parse, etc. As far as I can see, adornments adding a rough 10-15 more DPS (or ~30 with max haste) isn't going to change that enough to make MC weapons beat unarmed. The damage skyrocketed at 70 too, unarmed seems to jump up a tier in damage at the 10th level point. At 40, when you don't have the better weapons yet, your unarmed will have jumped another damage bracket and will be a LOT stronger than your lvl 32 MC's, and even better than the mid 30s Legendary. Also, you get the benefit of a powerful weapon right now (don't have to be hardcore camping or farming to buy gear off x2 stuff), and since it scales with levels you don't have to worry about spending time and cash on 5 tiers worth of MC and Legendary gear. Quite a bit of time and plat saved if you ask me. Only once you hit lvl 70 EoF Legendary, or KoS Fabled, will you consistantly fall behind with unarmed. When the new tier comes out, lvl 80 unarmed might be worth having until we find the powerhouse weapons of that tier.

[shonuf]

<p>i understand all that you guys are saying, but i have another question to throw at you guys....its nice to have the big crit in the int line when your health is at 30%....but since i solo about 90% of the time...my health is rarely at 30%..i do sometimes pull a herd of mobs to get it there..but not that often..</p><p> i would like to know and i made a post in another thread, about how much dps on a weapon will outdo dmg from the dbl attack str. line.? i had one reply, and the monk said, he thought it was around 57dps..i would like to get someone to confirm this? just kinda tying to play my path..from everyones exp.</p>

[shonuf]

<p>i understand all that you guys are saying, but i have another question to throw at you guys....its nice to have the big crit in the int line when your health is at 30%....but since i solo about 90% of the time...my health is rarely at 30%..i do sometimes pull a herd of mobs to get it there..but not that often..</p><p> i would like to know and i made a post in another thread, about how much dps on a weapon will outdo dmg from the dbl attack str. line.? i had one reply, and the monk said, he thought it was around 57dps..i would like to get someone to confirm this? just kinda tying to play my path..from everyones exp.</p>

[Bladewind]

<p>I can see str not stacking up so great at lvl 33 compared to adorned mastercrafted weapons because the base damage of your bare fist changes with every level.  If you compare the str line to those same imbued MC weapons at lvl 36ish, str will have a significant increase while weapon-dependent AA lines will only see an increase in their box 2 CA damage.  Taken to the extreme, at lvl 41, Str will dominate over a weapon dependent line because your lvl 32 dw weapons are almost gray to you.  The process would repeat at 42, when the next tier fo crafted weapons becomes available, etc etc...  The benefit of the str line is that it is always tuned to your exact level.  At levels where quality weapons are available, it will nto offer a huge benefit, but, at levels where quality weapons are not available, the str line will offer more potential damage.</p>

[Junaru]

Wildfury77 before you lay claim that someone who has been playing a Monk since the beginning has no clue, get one yourself. First off most PvP players deal in BURST damage. I agree for burst damage STR(3) is not the best. But for sastained damage STR(3) will out DPS 99% of all non EoF/KoS weapons. Math is math and facts are facts this has been proven in posts before that STR(3) will net you more DPS then MC weapons even with adornments.

[Mathaleus]

<p>Well, I'm at 4-4-5-1 atm at level 21, so think I'll just skip out on the MC at 22.  after I put the rank in the riposte, I decided I'd probably be wiser to go ahead and get the double attack finished up first.  </p><p>Thanks for the input. </p>

[Judo13]

Uh, just thought I'd throw in my two cents... if you do /weapon with the 20 DPS mod, and calculate the rating (by adding base dmg and max dmg, then dividing by 2.5 delay) the rating beats mastercrafted or even legendary by a LOOONNNGG shot (and I compared this rating at 22 when I had just gotten mastercrafted and a legendary weapon from fallen gate).  And once you get 96% double attack, going unarmed easily outdamages any weapons at that low a level.  Personally I'm not straying away from the STR until I get fabled weapons, end of story. 

[Mathaleus]

Yeah, after I finish the STR stuff I wanna do, will be fun deciding where to go from there.  Before I started working the STR line, I had been working on the heal monk AA, so I'll probably finish that up after STR, and then look at what else I want to do. 

[Junaru]

<cite>Mathaleus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, after I finish the STR stuff I wanna do, will be fun deciding where to go from there.  Before I started working the STR line, I had been working on the heal monk AA, so I'll probably finish that up after STR, and then look at what else I want to do.  </blockquote>The heal is nice but I would max out the KoS tree before spending any points into the EoF tree.