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Dextera

07-03-2007, 03:42 PM

I'm just extending IllusiveThought's parse thread since the page count has reached nearly 30 pages, lol.When posting parses, please let everyone know the group setup/buffs that were used and any gear that may affect your spell dmg. Also, if people could post their dmg spread (ACT % Pie Chart) whether with a picture link or through text, that would also help other Wizards.

Dextera

07-03-2007, 04:52 PM

IllusiveThoughts

07-03-2007, 07:08 PM

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>I'm just extending IllusiveThought's parse thread since the page count has reached nearly 30 pages, lol.When posting parses, please let everyone know the group setup/buffs that were used and any gear that may affect your spell dmg. Also, if people could post their dmg spread (ACT % Pie Chart) whether with a picture link or through text, that would also help other Wizards.</blockquote> why make a new thread for the same thing? The whole point was to consolidate parse postings to ONE thread. Otherwise we get stuff like this, one parse here, another parse here, no way to consolidate them.I mean seriously whats wrong with it being 100 pages?

Dextera

07-03-2007, 08:10 PM

Because half of the thread is drama? I'd like to actually have a useful thread, with tips for other wizards, instead of a number blitz of parses that people gain no benefit from.

IllusiveThoughts

07-04-2007, 03:42 AM

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Because half of the thread is drama? I'd like to actually have a useful thread, with tips for other wizards, instead of a number blitz of parses that people gain no benefit from.</blockquote> you're trying to tell me 14 pages of the parse thread is drama? Honestly what's you're agenda? Splitting up parses into other posts deafeats the whole purpose of consolidation.Look at it this way, in a year from now, when SOE does another live update 13 (for the next expasion) and nerfs everyone before they boost them, and people start posting in this thread, they'll have to look at the wizard parse thread, then look through the new wizard parse thread, and then look through any other copycat threads.....it becomes a huge pita.

justright

07-04-2007, 11:42 AM

if the old thread is anything like this one id say about 75% is drama /munchespopcorn

Zyphius

07-05-2007, 10:04 AM

Dextera@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Zone: Freethinker's HideoutBuffs: Synergism, Vim, Troub (Warlock got Time Compression)Group: Warlock, Illusionist, Troubador, Wizard, Wizard (Me), RangerGear: <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=791499104" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...terId=791499104</a></blockquote> You had 7 people in your group??

Dextera

07-05-2007, 12:26 PM

haha. Sorry, was tryin to go by people listed on the parse and usual groups. Didn't have the Ranger in the group =)

TheBu

07-05-2007, 05:53 PM

IllusiveThoughts makes agood point about keeping the threads together sorry i asked for a new one... please jus post back to the parse thread and not to this onebut please. .post parses to the thread as it is getting hard to find them in the thread

UUCyberSte

07-09-2007, 05:19 PM

In talking to another (and better) raid wizard, we're at a loss as to how one can get the levels of DPS that the OP's charts are showing. Can anyone care to enlighten us as to the methods/gear used to obtain regular >2k DPS?

IllusiveThoughts

07-09-2007, 06:46 PM

<cite>UUCyberSteve wrote:</cite><blockquote>In talking to another (and better) raid wizard, we're at a loss as to how one can get the levels of DPS that the OP's charts are showing. Can anyone care to enlighten us as to the methods/gear used to obtain regular >2k DPS? </blockquote> they linked their gear, and stated classes in group and what buffs they got.if you count the Treyloth encounter the OP is at 2100 dps, which i've done without avitar gear in this zone. there are a few 4 mob ae trash encounters that really pump up zone wide dps.

UUCyberSte

07-10-2007, 12:47 AM

Yes yes I saw the OP gear and buffs. But what about casting spells and order, were any God blessings/miracles used, anything else _not_ included in the post? Aside from the Wand, I've got as good of gear as he does and only about 30 pts lower on INT (and the other Wiz has even better gear). The other Wiz had all Masters and had a Fury/Troub in his group and he was only getting around 1600-1800 DPS. Aside from any details left out, the only major thing I see outstanding is the Wand of Crystalized Plasma (vs his Griz.). That or y'all using some diff ACT configuration outside of the default. In short, we simply don't believe these numbers based on the data provided.

Dextera

07-10-2007, 01:31 AM

No God miracles/blessings were used (faction is in the negatives from Avatar kills.) Casting order varies way too much by encounter, but just runs down DPS efficiency for the most part. ACT is set to default start/stop. DPS is calcuated as ExtDPS.Zonewide Breakdown of Damage (minus Treyloth, he sucks.):<img src="http://Dextera.EQ2.googlepages.com/fthbreakdown.jpg" border="0">

IllusiveThoughts

07-10-2007, 12:22 PM

<cite>UUCyberSteve wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes yes I saw the OP gear and buffs. But what about casting spells and order, were any God blessings/miracles used, anything else _not_ included in the post? Aside from the Wand, I've got as good of gear as he does and only about 30 pts lower on INT (and the other Wiz has even better gear). The other Wiz had all Masters and had a Fury/Troub in his group and he was only getting around 1600-1800 DPS. Aside from any details left out, the only major thing I see outstanding is the Wand of Crystalized Plasma (vs his Griz.). That or y'all using some diff ACT configuration outside of the default. In short, we simply don't believe these numbers based on the data provided. </blockquote> at this point in time we know more about the OP's situation than yours. Therefore please provide the parses that you have done and group makeup / gear and I can try to help you understand where the gap is comming from.Right now without knowing that I can say the troub / illusionist gave the OP at minimum 15% more dps from their buffs, not counting DKTM, or alins caliming serenade, or jcap. factor in those two and it jumps to almost 50% more dps.

Skeptycal

07-11-2007, 03:25 AM

Didn't you have any necros at these raids? Ours usually parse higher on named fights ... Seeing that list with no conjurors or necros makes me wonder ... You are listing parse from 3600 all the way down to 1000 and no summoners at all? Do you guys really raid with no summoners?

Dextera

07-11-2007, 03:28 AM

We have Summoners, they just weren't present at the raid. As with most guilds, the setup varies at times. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

slippery

07-11-2007, 01:29 PM

So your actual zonewide was 2104? Excluding encounters like Treyloth does nothing but skew numbers.

Dextera

07-11-2007, 02:04 PM

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>So your actual zonewide was 2104? Excluding encounters like Treyloth does nothing but skew numbers. </blockquote> I think you stalk me on every forum Perito. lol. Treyloth's fight was 5:02 in duration, his reflect is up for 2:00 (30s x 4.) You don't think that, in itself, skews DPS against casters? It's an obvious fight that does not lend itself well to casters. Sure, one could try and do optimum DPS on him, but to use him as a measuring stick is useless (since theoretically you could stop ALL DPS on him till the reflect is gone and boost caster DPS.) The rest of the zone does provide a good measuring stick however.

slippery

07-11-2007, 02:21 PM

You can still dps treyloth some during that time. Because he is reflecting doesn't mean there isn't ways you can do damage to him. Excluding a fight that is almost 1/4 of the zone skews the parse in your favor. It encourages people to just dps on fights they think they can do good on and if their is a fight they know there dps is going to suck on not try as much. Excluding a fight is like saying that fight doesn't really matter, but that fight is part of zone is it not?

TheBu

07-11-2007, 05:41 PM

what are u refering to please. are u refering to melee?also i was told not to use pets. something about each spell on pets and pep are cast back to the mt. are ther only curtain spell that also mirror to the mt? and are some pets ok?

slippery

07-11-2007, 05:55 PM

Non targeted effects.

TheBu

07-11-2007, 06:15 PM

firestorm and fusion? what about iceshield?

slippery

07-11-2007, 07:33 PM

Test it, see what works <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also, about excluding mobs. So, I'm not going to include chaperons because the fights are too short so I can't do dps. I'm not going to include any mob in a zonewide that debuffs or reflects because that wouldn't be an accurate representation of my dps (let me see, seedlings, treah, fae drakes, half the vampires reflect...). I'm also not going to include sentinels from TNT because well, they stun me all the time so that isn't a reflection of my dps either. While we are at it I'm just not going to include the Guardsmen groups either because well, they make it so they tank can't target so sometimes I may have to do less dps. Oh, I'm not going to include any mobs that spawn adds either, because I have to stop dps and switch targets so you can't see what my dps would be on the mob because I can't stay on it. Because the mob has reflect is like a scout saying I'm not including that in the zw because it has ae's I have to joust... The purpose of a Zonewide is to see what you can do across an entire given zone as a comparison to others. Those mobs that have things that make your dps suck are the mobs that truely reflect who can adapt to situations. To exclude those from parses is remove the encounters where there is the most room for improvement.

DobyMT

07-11-2007, 10:43 PM

I'm just curious why th Sorcerors are getting Synergism. Unless there aren't any Summoners on the raid, then I'd understand.

UUCyberSte

07-12-2007, 02:56 AM

<cite>IllusiveThoughts wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>UUCyberSteve wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes yes I saw the OP gear and buffs. But what about casting spells and order, were any God blessings/miracles used, anything else _not_ included in the post? Aside from the Wand, I've got as good of gear as he does and only about 30 pts lower on INT (and the other Wiz has even better gear). The other Wiz had all Masters and had a Fury/Troub in his group and he was only getting around 1600-1800 DPS. Aside from any details left out, the only major thing I see outstanding is the Wand of Crystalized Plasma (vs his Griz.). That or y'all using some diff ACT configuration outside of the default. In short, we simply don't believe these numbers based on the data provided. </blockquote> at this point in time we know more about the OP's situation than yours. Therefore please provide the parses that you have done and group makeup / gear and I can try to help you understand where the gap is comming from.Right now without knowing that I can say the troub / illusionist gave the OP at minimum 15% more dps from their buffs, not counting DKTM, or alins caliming serenade, or jcap. factor in those two and it jumps to almost 50% more dps.</blockquote> For the first half of this raid I was in a group with a Troub and Fury (as was the other wizard). I later got moved and my DPS didn't vary much. The other wiz avg. damage was 1,081 for the same raid/time frame. (or about 20% more than myself, which was also reflected and mirrors the range in the EXT DPS that I stated above) The other Wizard's zone-wide Avg damage was similar to Dex's screen shot avgs, yet this guy's Ext DPS (even just looking at the named battles) were only btwn 1600-2000. This is where I'm failing to see how Dex is posting ranges from 2400-3800. Yes its a diff zone and mobs, but the mob levels are close enough and even the top Ext DPS for this raid avg'd only 2,000. This is Chewbacca ... - Frostwynn (Side note: This parse is before the LU36 nerfage, before I got BoL, Sunstrike, and Forge of Ro to Master 1 (fm Adp3s), and added a +25 spell Dmg adornment ) <Attached data> Mistmoore's Inner Sanctum - [47] 9:53:28 PM | All - [01:06:56] (6/13/2007) 9:54:52 PM | Frostwynn | Non-Melee (Out) Type Damage Average Min Hit Max Hit Resist Hits CritHits Swings To Hit % All 4120244 868.70 11 28430 All 4743 217 4834 98.12 Ice Nova 934709 10502.35 6536 17033 cold 89 4 92 96.74 Frost Spikes 471601 1526.22 233 2681 cold 309 14 340 90.88 Irradiate 448056 640.08 231 2108 unknown 700 33 704 99.43 Ball of Lava 417132 4130.02 2653 6359 unknown 101 5 102 99.02 Fusion 314799 13686.91 7310 20843 cold 23 1 23 100.00 Rending Icicle 184740 237.15 62 393 cold 779 41 786 99.11 Surge 144843 1227.48 755 1937 unknown 118 7 118 100.00 Forge of Ro's 136749 170.94 11 453 heat 800 8 800 100.00 Glacial Wind 133327 828.12 454 1511 cold 161 0 165 97.58 Dissonant Nt 129897 639.89 127 1070 mental 203 24 203 100.00 Dynamism 112751 695.99 440 992 mental 162 1 162 100.00 Ice Lash 110604 553.02 352 798 cold 200 13 200 100.00 Firestorm 92592 1851.84 1020 2625 unknown 50 3 61 81.97 Burning Afflictn 77452 980.41 564 1828 unknown 79 5 83 95.18 Precise Note 68959 560.64 358 830 mental 123 4 123 100.00 Incapacitate 60715 3035.75 2069 4013 unknown 20 1 20 100.00 Char 46768 668.11 415 1118 unknown 70 2 80 87.50 Electrify Flash 42074 389.57 211 789 unknown 108 16 115 93.91 protoferno 34318 343.18 254 420 heat 100 0 100 100.00 Sunstrike 29897 1423.67 821 2313 unknown 21 1 21 100.00 Incinerate 28430 28430.00 28430 28430 heat 1 0 1 100.00 Strike Godking 25811 335.21 185 543 unknown 77 8 83 92.77 Fiery Convuls 18835 129.90 93 193 unknown 145 16 145 100.00 Flametongue 15237 89.11 62 120 unknown 171 0 171 100.00 Sunbolt 12560 224.29 51 1377 unknown 56 7 56 100.00 Fae Fires 7406 411.44 276 539 unknown 18 2 18 100.00 protoferno's End 5337 1067.40 968 1139 heat 5 0 5 100.00 Thermal Shock 4093 682.17 505 788 unknown 6 0 6 100.00 Unholy Strike 2889 481.50 385 557 disease 6 0 6 100.00 Flame Surge 2707 82.03 74 91 heat 33 0 33 100.00 Arcane Fury 2305 576.25 445 753 unknown 4 0 4 100.00 Scholar's Insight 1055 1055.00 1055 1055 magic 1 0 1 100.00 Word of Force 1043 1043.00 1043 1043 magic 1 0 1 100.00 Oxidizing Agent 553 184.33 143 231 magic 3 1 3 100.00 Surging Temp. 0 NaN 0 0 magic 0 0 1 0.00 Protoferno 0 NaN 0 0 heat 0 0 1 0.00 Killing 0 NaN 0 0 Death 0 0 1 0.00 Cease 0 NaN 0 0 cold 0 0 1 0.00

Koehianna

07-12-2007, 02:56 AM

I'm in total agreement with Perito. Leaving out encounters like Treyloth are going to skew your numbers in your favor, so it's not really a zonewide. We might as well all get out our best trash mob encounters in a zone and merge them together and call them a zonewide.

Dextera

07-12-2007, 05:09 AM

<cite>UUCyberSteve wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>IllusiveThoughts wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>UUCyberSteve wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes yes I saw the OP gear and buffs. But what about casting spells and order, were any God blessings/miracles used, anything else _not_ included in the post? Aside from the Wand, I've got as good of gear as he does and only about 30 pts lower on INT (and the other Wiz has even better gear). The other Wiz had all Masters and had a Fury/Troub in his group and he was only getting around 1600-1800 DPS. Aside from any details left out, the only major thing I see outstanding is the Wand of Crystalized Plasma (vs his Griz.). That or y'all using some diff ACT configuration outside of the default. In short, we simply don't believe these numbers based on the data provided. </blockquote> at this point in time we know more about the OP's situation than yours. Therefore please provide the parses that you have done and group makeup / gear and I can try to help you understand where the gap is comming from.Right now without knowing that I can say the troub / illusionist gave the OP at minimum 15% more dps from their buffs, not counting DKTM, or alins caliming serenade, or jcap. factor in those two and it jumps to almost 50% more dps.</blockquote> For the first half of this raid I was in a group with a Troub and Fury (as was the other wizard). I later got moved and my DPS didn't vary much. The other wiz avg. damage was 1,081 for the same raid/time frame. (or about 20% more than myself, which was also reflected and mirrors the range in the EXT DPS that I stated above) The other Wizard's zone-wide Avg damage was similar to Dex's screen shot avgs, yet this guy's Ext DPS (even just looking at the named battles) were only btwn 1600-2000. This is where I'm failing to see how Dex is posting ranges from 2400-3800. Yes its a diff zone and mobs, but the mob levels are close enough and even the top Ext DPS for this raid avg'd only 2,000. This is Chewbacca ... - Frostwynn (Side note: This parse is before the LU36 nerfage, before I got BoL, Sunstrike, and Forge of Ro to Master 1 (fm Adp3s), and added a +25 spell Dmg adornment ) <Attached data> Mistmoore's Inner Sanctum - [47] 9:53:28 PM | All - [01:06:56] (6/13/2007) 9:54:52 PM | Frostwynn | Non-Melee (Out) Type Damage Average Min Hit Max Hit Resist Hits CritHits Swings To Hit % All 4120244 868.70 11 28430 All 4743 217 4834 98.12 </blockquote> I'm not really seeing what question you're asking. I think you're wondering why your dmg is similar, but the DPS is different? ExtDPS is the total damage / total encounter time. So from your data the ExtDPS will be exactly what you said, around 1,081 DPS. If the total time taken from the enconter was halved to 0:33:28, this would up the ExtDPS to 2051.91 DPS.Just because the total damage done is similar doesn't mean that the DPS is the same. Hence the acronym's meaning, damage per second.

Dextera

07-12-2007, 05:10 AM

There's no reason you can't leave out encounters in a parse and compare it to others who have also left out encounters. The Sanctum Chaperon's can definitely skew a parse in favor of the Wizard with options like Manaburn (60k+ in 15s anyone?) The ability to do DPS can vary tremendously from raid to raid on encounters like Treyloth. If your non-caster DPS is blowing Treyloth down to 5% from his next reflect, the ability to caster DPS is diminished. This is opposed to other guilds with lower non-caster DPS who could wait out the 30s reflect and then have another 3m before the next reflect is up, giving ample time to recover DPS. It's just the variability between raid forces that is challenging. Comparing 2 similar parses of the same fight gets the job done, just as comparing two of the same zonewides (whether it's including Treyloth or not.)However, arguing about whether or not certain encounters should be included in parses is not the reason for this thread, so this will be the last time I address anything off-topic (this was a double-post and seemed like a good space filler.)

Darien al'Staff

07-12-2007, 01:00 PM

<cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>Test it, see what works <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also, about excluding mobs. So, I'm not going to include chaperons because the fights are too short so I can't do dps. I'm not going to include any mob in a zonewide that debuffs or reflects because that wouldn't be an accurate representation of my dps (let me see, seedlings, treah, fae drakes, half the vampires reflect...). I'm also not going to include sentinels from TNT because well, they stun me all the time so that isn't a reflection of my dps either. While we are at it I'm just not going to include the Guardsmen groups either because well, they make it so they tank can't target so sometimes I may have to do less dps. Oh, I'm not going to include any mobs that spawn adds either, because I have to stop dps and switch targets so you can't see what my dps would be on the mob because I can't stay on it. Because the mob has reflect is like a scout saying I'm not including that in the zw because it has ae's I have to joust... The purpose of a Zonewide is to see what you can do across an entire given zone as a comparison to others. Those mobs that have things that make your dps suck are the mobs that truely reflect who can adapt to situations. To exclude those from parses is remove the encounters where there is the most room for improvement. </blockquote><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I <3 you perito. There are a few encounters i owuld nix from a zonewide, depending. Chaps are one of them. Why? I don't think they accurately represent dps. *shrugs* But on something as small as chaps, I really dont' think the argument is worth it. In regards to treyloth/malconis. I normally do two parses: one with, one without. *shrugs* And if you push it, you can still easily break 2k on treyloth <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

slippery

07-12-2007, 05:57 PM

Dex, it has already been addressed why this thread shouldn't be used. There is a purpose to having ONE thread for all parses so you can examine changes over a long period of time to see what difference AA's and gear has made. No parse thread will EVER be anything remotely close to on topic and just parses, because it is going to be a thread filled with comments and questions. And again, what is the purpose of excluding the encounters that are the hardest to dps as those are the best measuring stick by which to judge what you can and can't improve. Out of curiosity I removed the Chaperons from my last MMiS parse just to see what it would do, nothing like inflating my parse 100dps! I should remove more stuff from my parses so I look more leet!

Supernova17

07-13-2007, 03:44 AM

<cite>TheBuzZ wrote:</cite><blockquote>also i was told not to use pets. something about each spell on pets and pep are cast back to the mt. are ther only curtain spell that also mirror to the mt? and are some pets ok?</blockquote>The Igneous Savant (Conjuror), Grim Heretic (Necromancer) and Illusionist Personae can hit Treyloth while he is reflecting, since primary pets do not get reflected. Their spells DO NOT hit the MT, your raid leader is WRONG, and because of this Summoners should be parsing higher on Treyloth since they get to do about 40% of their DPS during the reflect stage. Now dumbfire pets are not alright, since they are actually a hostile spell cast, which puts a DoT on the mob with pet graphics. Those get reflected back to the caster as "Treyloth's Aqueous Horde". Aqueous Horde / Pyromancy (Conjuror), Blighted Horde / Awaken Grave (Necromancer), Forge of Ro (Wizard) and Dark Broodlings / Netherlord (Warlock) are just some of the dumbfire pets that can be reflected, Brigand Thugs / Warden Pack of Wolves etc can be reflected too.