GU36 Nerfs to Mobs in CL

[TniEradani]

<p>I couldn't believe what I discovered they'd done to mobs in CL - with regards in particular to those fierce bloodskull orcs and other nameds in that general area.</p><p>The 20^^^ General in the first tower is now 14^</p><p>The 19[?^] is still 19 - thank god for small mercies</p><p>The elephant tamers and their elephants that used to be 14^ are now 13</p><p>Can't remember what the High Priest of Val'Marr used to be, but now is 20 [no ^]. Took down by a 17 warden and mage.</p><p>What's her name the ghost. Solo'd by a 17 warden.</p><p>My lion friend, Rama'... seems to be always up now and very easy to take down.</p><p>---------</p><p>Enquiring minds want to know: is this game being totally dumbed down so that anyone can beat anything?</p><p>I have agreed with the comment made here and there about staying with eq2 and learning to adapt through the current gu36 class nerfs, but I don't want everything to be way too easy. I want a challenge and if I don't get anything but uber easy mode, I'm going to find something else to play and leave eq2 to the teenagers with so much a.d.d they want instant win mode and can't be bothered to spend any time to L2P.</p>

[DiatribeEQ]

<p>To be perfectly honest, if these changes are 100% intended & accurate, then I'm all for it.  Let's face it.....Commonlands....is what level again?  Say it with me folks:  Intended for n00bs just leaving n00bland.  They should have the freedom to be able to semi-safely (yet with a hint of danger & face the resultant consequences) explore around a bit more than the complete freedom that was the initial n00blands.</p><p>I, for one, would've loved to have had these changes a month ago before I had all my rats betray to Kelethin because I hated how I had to group for so much crap that I shouldn't have had to group up for THAT EARLY IN THE GAME.  Taking down named for l00t and AA exp?  Find.  Normal freakin' mobs, for stupid blue quests by the time I leave Darklight that can easilly CRUSH ME?  W.....T.....F? (remember...blue quest here....just barely post-newbie area)</p><p>I also admit that this game has made LEAPS and BOUNDS worth of improvements over the original EQ1 and (launch) EQ2.  I don't want it as easy as WoW is (main reason why I came back from WoW after 2 1/2 years).  I want a challenge.  But I don't want to have 10 quests at 18th lvl that force me to gather a couple people together, just to do, what should be, a simple kill quest.  Once I start getting into my mid-later 20's and 30's, then I should start to have more and more "must group to finish" quests.  Fine, I accept that.  </p><p>I also accept the level of difficultly should ramp up every tier that people venture out into.   If I go from Greater Faydark to Butcherblock, I expect it to be initially a little harder, ramping up to much harder than what I just went through.  Then when I go from Butcherblock to Steamfont, it should start out a little bit harder and ramp up to much harder than what I just left.  Rinse and repeat.  The curve shouldn't start at "mindnumblingly easy mixed in with KILL_YOU_IN_ONE_HIT_01 mobs" then scale up from there.</p><p>It's all about balance.  This sounds like a long needed balancing act to that area.  Commonlands is freaking cool as heck to look at, just not that much fun for me to play in.</p>

[StoneySilen]

What good is it having them as group content when there are little to no groups to do them with? Some of those mobs you mentioned have been soloable for awhile now (ghost lady has been that way at least a year).

[Seraki]

<p>Agree with Stony</p><p>I am a newer returning player and the groups are not out there.     Seriously you cant play out the quest that require groups if you dont have help.   They need to fix Antonica the same way.   </p><p>If you want people to play in zones there needs to be a decent drop rate of loot and there isnt in lower end zones.   So making it soloable works at least to help those working though these zones.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

Theres no groups because the game is over saturated with solo stuff in all tiers. Make everything heroic or epic and it's suddenly not so hard to find a group. The game is definatly easy and getting easier as time goes by, but that seems to be what the majority of players want. More solo content, more fluff, less challenge, instant port clicky travel, no death penalty. You almost have to raid eof or pull mass amounts of heroic mobs in groups to experience a challenge in this game.

[spikeki]

<p>Rahatmattata, there are groups in the game. I'm in one every single time I play. The groups play where they should be in the dungeons not on the land areas. I never group on land surface areas since it's a waste of time when it comes to the experience and loot I get in the dungeons. </p><p>The surface areas should be more friendly for the casual players that don't have time to devote to dungeon grouping. The only time I fight on the surface is when I am limited in time to play or I need to kill an npc for a quest other than that I'm in areas such as POA, Hof, unrest etc where the loot, adventure exp, and aa exp is better. </p><p>The surface areas should have always been solo and duo friendly. The surface areas requiring groups are vastly empty of players and to me that is a waste of content that someone could enjoy playing in. </p><p>Good job on CL devs you did a great job. I see more ppl playing in that area now and enjoying the content. </p>

[DiatribeEQ]

This is mainly why I prefer the EoF zones to everything else.  I can simply go and do all the quests I can at the time, have nothing but yellow/orange (or white HQs), then pop into an old world zone that I'm several levels higher than, do all those Green/Blue quests, gain a level or two, then pop back into my EoF zones again, do up even more quests now that they're Blue/White to me, leave the remainder of the Yellow/Orange quests alone & drop into an instance with guildies or a pug of some kind.  Gain a couple levels, rinse and repeat.  It works out great and EoF is so balanced like that.

[Steelbreath]

And people still wipe in spite of how easy it is. For a lot of people, this is entertainment, a way to blow off steam. It doesn't necessarily need to be challenging to be entertaining. If I want challenge, I'll take a group and go after yellow heroics. If the group is made up of non-twinks, then yes it is a challenge. If it consists of a bunch of alts from lvl 70's with the top of the line gear, then no it isn't. I prefer the game now, to what it was. Starting a wizard and going to the  Down Below and dieing. They've made great improvements in making this game entertaining and not a chore.

[Lancaster38]

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>Theres no groups because the game is over saturated with solo stuff in all tiers. Make everything heroic or epic and it's suddenly not so hard to find a group. The game is definatly easy and getting easier as time goes by, but that seems to be what the majority of players want. More solo content, more fluff, less challenge, instant port clicky travel, no death penalty. You almost have to raid eof or pull mass amounts of heroic mobs in groups to experience a challenge in this game.</blockquote>When, EQ2 launched there werent many soloing options post-level 20. What happened was, rather than players cheering over how challenging the content was, they ended up leaving in droves for a more casual friendly game. Sony wised up and made more solo content, and the game is a heck of a lot more fun now IMO. I understand how disconcerting it is to see previously heroic mobs turned into solo ones, it kind of messes with the integrity of the zone lore (Ohrgran Foulgore is not so threatening now) but for low level zones it seems appropriate to make them easier if just to allow people to experience more of the game.

[Troubor]

<p>I don't have any characters roaming CL with it conning right now, so haven't had a reason to wander it.  Do have one guy in Neriak who could, but he's pretty much a crafting alt right now.  Have an idea for a character build (Troll or ogre bard.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ), but not sure I want to roll him yet.</p><p>Having said that, I think SOE needs to find the balance between "Player friendly" and "tough enough that people learn their class".  </p><p>My general feelings, may or may not be what everyone else thinks, I do think the game has gotten a bit too player friendly, not quite hard enough at the pre-endgame levels for people to learn their class well.  Maybe too easy to PL someone to their 60's without them really knowing what they are doing past the basics, then having that guy have to learn really fast if he wants to keep up with people who have been in game for a year or more or even more so since launch.  Not saying every newer player is like this, know plenty who are great at what they do and love to group with them.  But do see a few, otherwise neat people, that didn't really learn their class on the way up.  I'm far from the best IMO, and I know it.  But I hope I had time to figure out something on the way up, since my climb to 70th was a lot slower then it was for so many playing now.</p><p>Not sure what the balance is.  Again, I haven't looked around CL with a character that cons to it to see, but it does somewhat sound like CL is maybe shifted slightly too player friendly.</p><p>Maybe unrelated, but I've mentored down a few times for friends and guildies doing Qeynos AQ's now, including into Crypt of Betrayal, the third level of sewers below Qeynos.  I remember Cob being full of heroics and things that would just drop a group, enough so that people kind of didn't like to go there.  Now..it's almost all soloable things..but people still don't go there unless they have to for a quest it seems.  Maybe an example of finding the middle ground.  Put back in some heroics into CoB, without making it high percentage of heroics, and we might see low to mid 20's groups wandering the sewers again.</p>

[Beldin_]

<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote> Put back in some heroics into CoB, without making it high percentage of heroics, and we might see low to mid 20's groups wandering the sewers again.</blockquote>I don't see really that groups will go there anymore, the levels come too fast now in that range and most people, if they want to group, prefer Fallen Gate or Stormhold, because there the mobs were revamped to drop good loot from time to time. CoB is now more something for the people who want to max their Achievements and do as much quests as possible with deactivated compat-exp, and for them its fine if its solo. Else to attract groups in these zones, they must first totally revamp the drops of the mobs there.

[Vatec]

<cite>Troubor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't have any characters roaming CL with it conning right now, so haven't had a reason to wander it.  Do have one guy in Neriak who could, but he's pretty much a crafting alt right now.  Have an idea for a character build (Troll or ogre bard.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ), but not sure I want to roll him yet.</p><p>Having said that, I think SOE needs to find the balance between "Player friendly" and "tough enough that people learn their class".  </p><p>My general feelings, may or may not be what everyone else thinks, I do think the game has gotten a bit too player friendly, not quite hard enough at the pre-endgame levels for people to learn their class well.  Maybe too easy to PL someone to their 60's without them really knowing what they are doing past the basics, then having that guy have to learn really fast if he wants to keep up with people who have been in game for a year or more or even more so since launch.  Not saying every newer player is like this, know plenty who are great at what they do and love to group with them.  But do see a few, otherwise neat people, that didn't really learn their class on the way up.  I'm far from the best IMO, and I know it.  But I hope I had time to figure out something on the way up, since my climb to 70th was a lot slower then it was for so many playing now.</p><p>Not sure what the balance is.  Again, I haven't looked around CL with a character that cons to it to see, but it does somewhat sound like CL is maybe shifted slightly too player friendly.</p><p>Maybe unrelated, but I've mentored down a few times for friends and guildies doing Qeynos AQ's now, including into Crypt of Betrayal, the third level of sewers below Qeynos.  I remember Cob being full of heroics and things that would just drop a group, enough so that people kind of didn't like to go there.  Now..it's almost all soloable things..but people still don't go there unless they have to for a quest it seems.  Maybe an example of finding the middle ground.  Put back in some heroics into CoB, without making it high percentage of heroics, and we might see low to mid 20's groups wandering the sewers again.</p></blockquote>People don't go to the Crypt of Betrayal because it's an ugly zone with clipping issues that looks exactly like the Vermin's Snye and Down Below that precede it.  Furthermore, it's got long respawn timers, a wandering heroic that =will= wipe a group that isn't expecting it (Archaic Fury) and another that can spawn anywhere, including ten feet from the main entrance (Specter of Ire).  In short, it's both boring =and= annoying, which translates to absolutely no fun whatsoever. Oh, yeah, and it's easy to get lost in unless you use EQ2MAP :^P I, for one, always shudder every time I look at my quest journal and see that something in it will take me to those loathsome sewers beneath Qeynos.... As for the whole "dumbing down the game" issue:  the game is far more entertaining now than it was at launch.  There's a lot more opportunities to go out and have fun without the hassle of finding a group.  Antonica, Commonlands, and Darklight Wood are all well-crafted zones with lots of atmosphere.  Greater Faydark, OTOH, is a benighted mess that is almost impossible to navigate and full of ridiculous dead ends.  I despise the place and avoid it as much as possible.  Thundering Steppes, Nektulos Forest, and Butcherblock Mountains also work well for the purpose of entertainment, as long as you avoid picking up any annoying book quests (kill 10 undead workers who only spawn in one group of 7 with a heroic named; now do it two more times; ARGH).  So if this is "dumbing down," then I want them to keep doing it.  Save grouping for dungeons: that way those who want to submit themselves to such torture can do so easily and let those of us who just want to see the world do so in peace. I have a job in the real world; I have no desire to play a game that feels like a job. Now I will say that there are still a few balance issues and that levelling is probably a bit too fast:  all my characters consistently outlevel their gear long before they've earned enough money to replace it, thanks to vitality.  And death is almost irrelevant.  In fact, sometimes it's cheaper to die and pay repair costs than it is to click on the Regeneration potion and win the fight.  So yes, those are really problems.  But the layout of the outdoor content itself?  About that I have no real complaints up through tier 4 at least.

[DiatribeEQ]

<p>The way any MMORPG should be is that 50% of the game is you having fun (whether it solo or grouped) while you're leveling up & the other 50% of your fun once you hit your current level cap & doing things that only people of your level can do.</p><p>You should *never* feel that "after level XX, I've got to find a group to do anything, otherwise, this game sucks" and that level XX happens to be *VERY* early in the game.  Solo content through much of the game?  For sure.  Throw in numerous questlines/story arcs/areas that *ARE* group focuses (and subsequently rewarding in exp/loot/rep/AA's/ect in comparison to their non-group quests versions) into the mix to even it out.</p><p>This is one of the reasons why WoW made it as well as it did: 1) Super easy on the system resources</p><p>2) Anyone can solo up to 70th lvl</p><p>3) If you want the really good gear as you leveled up, you had to be in some kind of group (power level, or standard)</p><p>4) You could "jump in/jump out" of any instance/zone as you felt like it and not have any kind of lockout timer in play</p><p>There's a couple more things I can list, but those are the Prime 4 reasons.  EQ2 has addressed much of the early problems and are making headway into making sure things are a little more "Less EQ1 & more Casual or Hardcore Friendly if you so chose, but not 100% insisted"</p>