Raid problems on pvp servers

[Groma]

2 things. First, when engaged in pvp while fighting a contested mob, everything (damage, heals, etc) scales to pvp format and the mob promptly rips a raid apart because pvp stats cannot keep up. Second, as exiles if a member of the raid is charmed, then attacked while charmed or attacks the raid while charmed and any reactives/HoTs are up, you are immediately thrown into pvp combat and everything gets ridiculously rough. Is this something we can expect to be tweaked and fixed, or something we just need to get used to?

[Spider]

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>2 things. First, when engaged in pvp while fighting a contested mob, everything (damage, heals, etc) scales to pvp format and the mob promptly rips a raid apart because pvp stats cannot keep up. Second, as exiles if a member of the raid is charmed, then attacked while charmed or attacks the raid while charmed and any reactives/HoTs are up, you are immediately thrown into pvp combat and everything gets ridiculously rough. Is this something we can expect to be tweaked and fixed, or something we just need to get used to? </blockquote> not realy its all part and parcel of what makes pvp raiding a great chalange bro get used to it most of us learn to enjoy the chalange

[Freliant]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>2 things. First, when engaged in pvp while fighting a contested mob, everything (damage, heals, etc) scales to pvp format and the mob promptly rips a raid apart because pvp stats cannot keep up. Second, as exiles if a member of the raid is charmed, then attacked while charmed or attacks the raid while charmed and any reactives/HoTs are up, you are immediately thrown into pvp combat and everything gets ridiculously rough. Is this something we can expect to be tweaked and fixed, or something we just need to get used to? </blockquote> not realy its all part and parcel of what makes pvp raiding a great chalange bro get used to it most of us learn to enjoy the chalange</blockquote>Ummm... Let me speak on behalf of Gromann and say: Nope, these should not at all be intended. If you are hunting an elephant with a rifle, if someone comes up to you and smacks you across the face, your rifle shouldn't automatically turn into a B-B gun. Same thing with the exile.. that has all the earmarks of a honest bug. I suggest you /bug it in game and the devs will quickly find a solution to this.

[Spider]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>2 things. First, when engaged in pvp while fighting a contested mob, everything (damage, heals, etc) scales to pvp format and the mob promptly rips a raid apart because pvp stats cannot keep up. Second, as exiles if a member of the raid is charmed, then attacked while charmed or attacks the raid while charmed and any reactives/HoTs are up, you are immediately thrown into pvp combat and everything gets ridiculously rough. Is this something we can expect to be tweaked and fixed, or something we just need to get used to? </blockquote> not realy its all part and parcel of what makes pvp raiding a great chalange bro get used to it most of us learn to enjoy the chalange</blockquote>Ummm... Let me speak on behalf of Gromann and say: Nope, these should not at all be intended. If you are hunting an elephant with a rifle, if someone comes up to you and smacks you across the face, your rifle shouldn't automatically turn into a B-B gun. Same thing with the exile.. that has all the earmarks of a honest bug. I suggest you /bug it in game and the devs will quickly find a solution to this. </blockquote><p>yes but its also unfair for said  pvp bbgun to suddenly become a sherman tank just because you attack someone fighting a mob</p><p>if that was the case tehnt eh peopel fighting the mob would be getting pve heals and doing pve damage to pvp targets theres no other way around it if u engage in PVP of any kind you start using your PVP versions of spells and skills untill the pvp has ended </p>

[liveja]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>2 things. First, when engaged in pvp while fighting a contested mob, everything (damage, heals, etc) scales to pvp format and the mob promptly rips a raid apart because pvp stats cannot keep up. Second, as exiles if a member of the raid is charmed, then attacked while charmed or attacks the raid while charmed and any reactives/HoTs are up, you are immediately thrown into pvp combat and everything gets ridiculously rough. Is this something we can expect to be tweaked and fixed, or something we just need to get used to? </blockquote> not realy its all part and parcel of what makes pvp raiding a great chalange bro get used to it most of us learn to enjoy the chalange</blockquote>Ummm... Let me speak on behalf of Gromann and say: Nope, these should not at all be intended. If you are hunting an elephant with a rifle, if someone comes up to you and smacks you across the face, your rifle shouldn't automatically turn into a B-B gun. Same thing with the exile.. that has all the earmarks of a honest bug. I suggest you /bug it in game and the devs will quickly find a solution to this. </blockquote><p>yes but its also unfair for said  pvp bbgun to suddenly become a sherman tank just because you attack someone fighting a mob</p><p>if that was the case tehnt eh peopel fighting the mob would be getting pve heals and doing pve damage to pvp targets theres no other way around it if u engage in PVP of any kind you start using your PVP versions of spells and skills untill the pvp has ended </p></blockquote><p>What's being said is that your CAs & spells & abilities -- when targeting the MOB -- should be doing <b>PVE damage</b>, whether or not a member of your group is currently engaged in PvP.</p><p>It worked that way in EQ1, where PvP spell damage was reduced to 66% of normal, but ONLY when casting on PCs, not when casting on mobs while another member of your group is PvPing. </p>

[Groma]

The problem is with coding it properly.  I can see how it is such a nightmare.  If my raid is fighting Hurricanus, a level 10 ranger can take a pop shot at the MT Shaman, then the entire raid automatically scales to pvp abilities and it gets real rough real quick.  No doubt, Hurricanus can still be killed with everything scaling down, but replace him with a mob that is an actual challenge, and its all over simply because a level 10 engaged a healer with a reactive up. Sure, our attacks should scale to pvp damage if we chose to attack the pvp targets, but for someone(especially you Meiling, with no contested mob raid experience whatsoever) to even hint that its fair for not only us to be fighting an x4 contested mob, to have to do that and pvp in [Removed for Content] mode at the same time is ridiculous. The charm effect against exiles is a bug and i am 100% sure of that, but i seriously doubt they had anyone to test charming raid mobs for these pvp updates.  They either need to fix it in a hurry, or remove the ability for exiles to attack each other temporarily(or in an instance) until they get time to do it.  Bad enough we have to raid for our gear, now we have to do it in pvp mode for (i think) every encounter in MMIS.

[Spider]

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem is with coding it properly.  I can see how it is such a nightmare.  If my raid is fighting Hurricanus, a level 10 ranger can take a pop shot at the MT Shaman, then the entire raid automatically scales to pvp abilities and it gets real rough real quick.  No doubt, Hurricanus can still be killed with everything scaling down, but replace him with a mob that is an actual challenge, and its all over simply because a level 10 engaged a healer with a reactive up. Sure, our attacks should scale to pvp damage if we chose to attack the pvp targets, but for someone(especially you Meiling, with no contested mob raid experience whatsoever) to even hint that its fair for not only us to be fighting an x4 contested mob, to have to do that and pvp in [Removed for Content] mode at the same time is ridiculous. The charm effect against exiles is a bug and i am 100% sure of that, but i seriously doubt they had anyone to test charming raid mobs for these pvp updates.  They either need to fix it in a hurry, or remove the ability for exiles to attack each other temporarily(or in an instance) until they get time to do it.  Bad enough we have to raid for our gear, now we have to do it in pvp mode for (i think) every encounter in MMIS. </blockquote> no contested raid experiance ???? um excuse me but bro i was HEALING our Melee dps group and keeping everyone alive on your pathetic atempt to stop us  dropping 3 princes even with 3-4 people going for famine specificaly i kept him up with no problem oh yeah using PVE heals so F what ya heard bro ive been raid healing since the low 60's

[Groma]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem is with coding it properly.  I can see how it is such a nightmare.  If my raid is fighting Hurricanus, a level 10 ranger can take a pop shot at the MT Shaman, then the entire raid automatically scales to pvp abilities and it gets real rough real quick.  No doubt, Hurricanus can still be killed with everything scaling down, but replace him with a mob that is an actual challenge, and its all over simply because a level 10 engaged a healer with a reactive up. Sure, our attacks should scale to pvp damage if we chose to attack the pvp targets, but for someone(especially you Meiling, with no contested mob raid experience whatsoever) to even hint that its fair for not only us to be fighting an x4 contested mob, to have to do that and pvp in [Removed for Content] mode at the same time is ridiculous. The charm effect against exiles is a bug and i am 100% sure of that, but i seriously doubt they had anyone to test charming raid mobs for these pvp updates.  They either need to fix it in a hurry, or remove the ability for exiles to attack each other temporarily(or in an instance) until they get time to do it.  Bad enough we have to raid for our gear, now we have to do it in pvp mode for (i think) every encounter in MMIS. </blockquote> no contested raid experiance ???? um excuse me but bro i was HEALING our Melee dps group and keeping everyone alive on your pathetic atempt to stop us  dropping 3 princes even with 3-4 people going for famine specificaly i kept him up with no problem oh yeah using PVE heals so F what ya heard bro ive been raid healing since the low 60's </blockquote>My bad, you have 1 time experience with contested raiding in your low 60s.  It hardly makes you the authority on pvp while raiding contested mob, with your 800 kills across all toons and all.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem is with coding it properly.  I can see how it is such a nightmare.  If my raid is fighting Hurricanus, a level 10 ranger can take a pop shot at the MT Shaman, then the entire raid automatically scales to pvp abilities and it gets real rough real quick.  No doubt, Hurricanus can still be killed with everything scaling down, but replace him with a mob that is an actual challenge, and its all over simply because a level 10 engaged a healer with a reactive up. Sure, our attacks should scale to pvp damage if we chose to attack the pvp targets, but for someone(especially you Meiling, with no contested mob raid experience whatsoever) to even hint that its fair for not only us to be fighting an x4 contested mob, to have to do that and pvp in [Removed for Content] mode at the same time is ridiculous. The charm effect against exiles is a bug and i am 100% sure of that, but i seriously doubt they had anyone to test charming raid mobs for these pvp updates.  They either need to fix it in a hurry, or remove the ability for exiles to attack each other temporarily(or in an instance) until they get time to do it.  Bad enough we have to raid for our gear, now we have to do it in pvp mode for (i think) every encounter in MMIS. </blockquote> no contested raid experiance ???? um excuse me but bro i was HEALING our Melee dps group and keeping everyone alive on your pathetic atempt to stop us  dropping 3 princes even with 3-4 people going for famine specificaly i kept him up with no problem oh yeah using PVE heals so F what ya heard bro ive been raid healing since the low 60's </blockquote>My bad, you have 1 time experience with contested raiding in your low 60s.  It hardly makes you the authority on pvp while raiding contested mob, with your 800 kills across all toons and all. </blockquote>The low 60's raiding refers to labs gromann. I was on aim with him.

[Spider]

<p>accualy while still in the low 60's ive raided labs, dt freethinkers and 3 princes amongst others  and we dropped 3 princes while fighting off your nub  attempts to stop us yet you guys couldnt get it on you own w/o anyone trying to stop you ? hmmmmm </p><p>and as for your leet? pvp skills standing on ww with a full group of aoe nukers oneshotting people as they land isnt skill bro  it istn even close </p><p>now the several 20-30 min fights between me and gaglaak those are what skills all about  /props to gag </p>

[Groma]

Well i'm not going to turn this thread into a virtual [Removed for Content] match, anyone who plays t7 on Vox knows better than to listen to half of what you say. The thread is about 2 things, raiding as exile which you know nothing about, and raiding contested with the new pvp changes, which you know nothing about, so unless you have something constructive to add then move on and troll elsewhere. To any Dev that bothers to read the thread, its an absolute pain in the rear trying to kill 75x4 mobs with scaled pvp abilities, and it needs to be fixed one way or another.

[Addex]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>accualy while still in the low 60's ive raided labs, dt freethinkers and 3 princes amongst others  and we dropped 3 princes while fighting off your nub  attempts to stop us yet you guys couldnt get it on you own w/o anyone trying to stop you ? hmmmmm </p><p>and as for your leet? pvp skills standing on ww with a full group of aoe nukers oneshotting people as they land isnt skill bro  it istn even close </p><p>now the several 20-30 min fights between me and gaglaak those are what skills all about  /props to gag </p></blockquote><p> Bringing a non 70 to a raid that just show the uberness of ur guild. Explain me the point of having a low lvl toon that dies at the first ae. You have raided all those places? Asylum hasnt completed FTH nor cleared dt and Rawyx and I can solo labs the way it is now [Removed for Content].</p><p>Now you guys were with Nemesis there protecting u and mad zerging 3 princes after being there for how many hours? And we kill princes everytime they are up on first pull <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Groma]

Still a problem, 1 fury was able to take out a raid on 3 princes because she nuked a healer and the raid was thrown into pvp combat with our heals cut in half.

[Expres]

<p><span style="color: #0066ff">So people in a raid should get to keep PvE heals just because they are engaged with a x2,3,4 when someone attacks them in PvP?</span></p><p><span style="color: #0066ff">Nope.  Well not unless the people <u>attacking</u> the raid <u>ALSO</u> get to use PvE versions of their spells.  =P</span></p><p><span style="color: #0066ff">After all, they are also engaged with a x2,3,4.</span></p>

[lost]

If you aren't willing to live by the pvp ruleset while pveing, maybe you need to stick to instances or move to a blue server.  There are exploits like charm+evacing someone's MT, but everything you have described is the pvp ruleset.  The last thing this game needs is more rules to dictate who you can and cannot fight.

[Groma]

Oh, i don't want the rules to me changed to allow us to be non-attackable, going raid on raid with contested is my favorite part of pvp in this game. I just think its absolutely absurd that 1 healer can wipe an entire raid on a mob that the same raid can first pull with a full group attacking them a couple weeks ago, because of the new pvp ruleset.  It just blows my mind that a group based game on a server oriented around pvp is coded in such a way that 1 person can take down 24 and all they have to do is cast one spell and run away.

[The_Real_Ohno]

<p>Post the logs, or better yet Fraps this. Healer castin 1 spell that wipes your whole raid?  I dont believe it.</p><p>Princes are quite hard though to do with PvP on u, though any hard contested wont be killed if u have PvP on u. Get protection like the Naggy guilds do.  Even then they still dont engage the contested if PvP is happenin in that area, they come back later.  Maybe thats what u should do.</p>

[Groma]

At midnight on Vox, there is probably 15 level 70s online if one of the big guilds is not having a raid.  Our templar had a reactive up, fury nuked him and ran throwing him into pvp combat, then the group goes in, then the raid goes in, and there is nothing you can do about it.  We've dropped princes with a group bind rushing us and had very little problems.  Now, with a bit more gear, we couldn't do it because the second we go into pvp combat people start dropping like flies.  Don't have fraps of it, and already closed out ACT, but i'll start saving it for contested mobs just in case so i can show it.  Even at worse case scenario one of our tanks has his main healer engaged and he drops, then it all goes down hill. I think it was fine before, a group attacked and was smart enough to drop a crucial player and the raid was likely to wipe.  The way it is now, a level 10 can show up and engage a healer with a reactive up and that healer is rendered almost useless for that encounter.  I couldn't even begin to talk about how to code it, and in agree that with the damage reduction heals needed to be toned down, i just think they completely ignored contested raid mobs on pvp servers when they made the changes because it is totally borked now.  The solution shouldn't be to wait till 4am to raid contested mobs.  I don't expect to drop any with an x4 there trying to stop us, but if all it takes is 1 person to engage you its pretty weak.

[Bozidar]

<p>I think that the change to heals in PVP, or any modification to heals previously for pvp combat, should have come with a damage tracking system.</p><p>If i'm getting hit by a mob, and a player, and I heal myself.. i'm ok with my heals being reduced for the damage the player is doing.  And if he continues to have damage on me then my heals should continue to be reduced.</p><p>But if the damage he does is tracked.. and it's healed (healed first) and is now gone?</p><p>Then my heals should return to PVE levels.</p><p>If i'm healing a player who has pvp damage on them?  That pvp damage should be healed first, and at the reduced rate.</p><p>My proposal:</p><p>When a player heals another player, with targeted or group heals, doesn't matter, the damage on that player should be resolved in order.  First the pvp damage is healed at the reduced rate.  When the pvp damage is gone, the remaining heals should give HP back at the PVE rate.</p><p>I'm sorry that this is going to be extremely difficult to code and impliment, but you chose to reduce pvp heals a lot more than they were, and this is possibly the only way to make it fair.</p>

[Uilamin]

What should happen is when you get encounter locked pvp changes do not affect you, however, once the encounter lock is over the changes hit.  This should also check to see if you are in pvp in the first place.

[Bozidar]

<cite>Uilamin wrote:</cite><blockquote>What should happen is when you get encounter locked pvp changes do not affect you, however, once the encounter lock is over the changes hit.  This should also check to see if you are in pvp in the first place. </blockquote>too abuseable, sorry.

[Groma]

Make it only work on encounters that autolock no matter what your settings, Epic only.  Can't see too many people engaging an epic mob for increased pvp stats cause they will die no matter what, and i'm sure the pvp isn't too heavy on the back side of Guardians, Breeding Grounds and Ravasect Isle <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bozidar]

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Make it only work on encounters that autolock no matter what your settings, Epic only.  Can't see too many people engaging an epic mob for increased pvp stats cause they will die no matter what, and i'm sure the pvp isn't too heavy on the back side of Guardians, Breeding Grounds and Ravasect Isle <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> Not the point.  Folks can engage VERY grey epic mobs and exploit it because pvp is viable in all zones.  The bottom line is it's the wrong fix for the problem.</p><p>Track the damage.  Apply the heal nerf only to PVP DAMAGE not to PVP COMBAT.  That's the right fix.</p>

[Spider]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Make it only work on encounters that autolock no matter what your settings, Epic only.  Can't see too many people engaging an epic mob for increased pvp stats cause they will die no matter what, and i'm sure the pvp isn't too heavy on the back side of Guardians, Breeding Grounds and Ravasect Isle <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> Not the point.  Folks can engage VERY grey epic mobs and exploit it because pvp is viable in all zones.  The bottom line is it's the wrong fix for the problem.</p><p>Track the damage.  Apply the heal nerf only to PVP DAMAGE not to PVP COMBAT.  That's the right fix.</p></blockquote><p>personaly i ahve no problems with heals being reduced because of engagin in pvp  its -part of the game learn to work it if you have good healers they can handle it  sorry for ya if your healers cant keep up  on that</p><p>but i do have to say that in more than jstu this situation the new 10 second recast on cures is a MAJOR issue  for pvp and for pve /pve situations like this one</p><p>in even a 1v1 some classes can stack 10+ trauma's on someone in seconds yet we can only cure 1 every ten seconds ? taht s severly problematic  and in a raid situation where cures are crucial its definatly deadly  simply put 10 seconds is WAY over skill 2-5 seconds would be far more reasonable and would still be functional ( difficult  but functional)  </p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>personaly i ahve no problems with heals being reduced because of engagin in pvp  its -part of the game learn to work it if you have good healers they can handle it  sorry for ya if your healers cant keep up  on that</p><p>but i do have to say that in more than jstu this situation the new 10 second recast on cures is a MAJOR issue  for pvp and for pve /pve situations like this one</p><p>in even a 1v1 some classes can stack 10+ trauma's on someone in seconds yet we can only cure 1 every ten seconds ? taht s severly problematic  and in a raid situation where cures are crucial its definatly deadly  simply put 10 seconds is WAY over skill 2-5 seconds would be far more reasonable and would still be functional ( difficult  but functional)  </p></blockquote><p><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Personaly i have no problem with the cures recast timer going to 10 seconds.  part of the game, learn to work it if you have a good healers they can handle it sorry for ya if your healers can't keep up on that </p><p><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Bozidar]

<p>Let's try out some logic, for a change.</p><p>PvP heals were reduced (significantly) to coinside with the reduction of PVP damage.</p><p>If someone's doing PVP damage to you, you should heal them at the reduced PVP rate.</p><p>If someone does ONE POINT of pvp damage to you, and a mob does the rest, then you should get a reduced return on that 1 point of healing, and return to the normal pve rate of healing for the mob you are facing.</p><p>When you hit a pve mob, while you're in pvp combat, does it do pvp damage?</p>

[Groma]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Let's try out some logic, for a change.</p><p>PvP heals were reduced (significantly) to coinside with the reduction of PVP damage.</p><p>If someone's doing PVP damage to you, you should heal them at the reduced PVP rate.</p><p>If someone does ONE POINT of pvp damage to you, and a mob does the rest, then you should get a reduced return on that 1 point of healing, and return to the normal pve rate of healing for the mob you are facing.</p><p>When you hit a pve mob, while you're in pvp combat, does it do pvp damage?</p></blockquote>While i do agree that is probably the best and most fair solution, it is a coding nightmare and not worth the effort for SOE's coders.  I don't see anyone quitting the game because on 3 servers you can't kill a contested mob with PvP on you.  They will be killed, it just wont be within hours of their spawn and the x4 vs x4 vs x4 vs x4 fights that many people love are pretty much over.

[Bozidar]

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>While i do agree that is probably the best and most fair solution, it is a coding nightmare and not worth the effort for SOE's coders.  I don't see anyone quitting the game because on 3 servers you can't kill a contested mob with PvP on you.  They will be killed, it just wont be within hours of their spawn and the x4 vs x4 vs x4 vs x4 fights that many people love are pretty much over. </blockquote><p> I've thought it through a little bit more.  It's probably the best solution we've come up with so far, but it's not quite 'right'.  I'm gonna let it mull over, BUT...</p><p>We're the customers here.  If we can agree on the proper solution for something, then that's what we should be asking for.  Let SoE do it's job, and if they come back and say that it's not worth the effort, then so be it. Then we know where they stand on it, and we're not making their minds up for them on how important or difficult it is to change their code <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Spider]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>personaly i ahve no problems with heals being reduced because of engagin in pvp  its -part of the game learn to work it if you have good healers they can handle it  sorry for ya if your healers cant keep up  on that</p><p>but i do have to say that in more than jstu this situation the new 10 second recast on cures is a MAJOR issue  for pvp and for pve /pve situations like this one</p><p>in even a 1v1 some classes can stack 10+ trauma's on someone in seconds yet we can only cure 1 every ten seconds ? taht s severly problematic  and in a raid situation where cures are crucial its definatly deadly  simply put 10 seconds is WAY over skill 2-5 seconds would be far more reasonable and would still be functional ( difficult  but functional)  </p></blockquote><p><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Personaly i have no problem with the cures recast timer going to 10 seconds.  part of the game, learn to work it if you have a good healers they can handle it sorry for ya if your healers can't keep up on that </p><p><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote>ah but you see the differance is that while your heals are reduced you CAN compensate  by working realy hard and timing thigns right but with cure cooldowns many mobs have  effects taht if u dont cure them immidiately will end in a wipe and 10sec cooldown makes it nearly immpossible to keep up

[nessa]

<p>i'm sorry gromann, i was just bored and there wasn't anyone out and i saw some reck flying around...</p><p><img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>i'll stay on ww next time hmmm...?</p>

[Yage]

all raid zones and contested mobs should be removed from pvp servers and replaced with City based pvp raid missions.  fixed! 

[PeaSy1]

AGREED

[Bozidar]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote>ah but you see the differance is that while your heals are reduced you CAN compensate  by working realy hard and timing thigns right but with cure cooldowns many mobs have  effects taht if u dont cure them immidiately will end in a wipe and 10sec cooldown makes it nearly immpossible to keep up </blockquote> You can compensate for the cure timer too by working really hard and timing things right.  You starting to see the hypocracy yet?

[Valdar]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote>ah but you see the differance is that while your heals are reduced you CAN compensate  by working realy hard and timing thigns right but with cure cooldowns many mobs have  effects taht if u dont cure them immidiately will end in a wipe and 10sec cooldown makes it nearly immpossible to keep up </blockquote> You can compensate for the cure timer too by working really hard and timing things right.  You starting to see the hypocracy yet?</blockquote><p>No.</p><p>It is simply not possible to compensate for a 10s cooldown on cures. That stuff has to be cured instantly or you will just blow up. In raids they are quite often more than simple debuffs, they can have very, VERY nasty side effects that you will not live through. </p><p>A good example is Treyloth in FTH, instanced I know but a good example.</p>

[Groma]

Phaust@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote>ah but you see the differance is that while your heals are reduced you CAN compensate  by working realy hard and timing thigns right but with cure cooldowns many mobs have  effects taht if u dont cure them immidiately will end in a wipe and 10sec cooldown makes it nearly immpossible to keep up </blockquote> You can compensate for the cure timer too by working really hard and timing things right.  You starting to see the hypocracy yet?</blockquote><p>No.</p><p>It is simply not possible to compensate for a 10s cooldown on cures. That stuff has to be cured instantly or you will just blow up. In raids they are quite often more than simple debuffs, they can have very, VERY nasty side effects that you will not live through. </p><p>A good example is Treyloth in FTH, instanced I know but a good example.</p></blockquote>Try Main Tanking Mayong Mistmoore, at level 60, because someone in the raid got charmed for .00001 seconds and you are all in pvp combat.  nothing like taking 60 seconds to cure your entire group if you aren't fortunate enough to have a group cure for that particular effect. NPU was complaining about this when they were testing some of the raid changes on the pvp test server, and how tough it was for one of(if not the) top guilds world wide to manage encounters that require an instant cure to have 10 second recast woes, reduced heals, etc.

[Vydar]

This problem is definitely annoying.  It's not just exiles, its the factions, too. When a raid mob charms someone, and all of a sudden all our healers have 10 second cure reuse timers, we're kind of in trouble. 

[Groma]

Vydar@Vox wrote: <blockquote>This problem is definitely annoying.  It's not just exiles, its the factions, too. When a raid mob charms someone, and all of a sudden all our healers have 10 second cure reuse timers, we're kind of in trouble.  </blockquote>Funny, its one of your guild mates commenting that its just part of the game and that we should deal with it basically in the first reply to this thread.  Guess since its not just exiles who have to deal with it, the problem needs to be fixed.

[Vydar]

<cite>Gromann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Vydar@Vox wrote: <blockquote>This problem is definitely annoying.  It's not just exiles, its the factions, too. When a raid mob charms someone, and all of a sudden all our healers have 10 second cure reuse timers, we're kind of in trouble.  </blockquote>Funny, its one of your guild mates commenting that its just part of the game and that we should deal with it basically in the first reply to this thread.  Guess since its not just exiles who have to deal with it, the problem needs to be fixed. </blockquote> I disagree with said guildmate's comment.  /shrug