Does AA Str line allow weapons now?

[Kael Grace]

<p>Has SOE eliminated the weapon req for the Str line?  Thought they had at one point in testing, but has that reversed course?</p>

[Supp]

<p>It looks like you still have to be weaponless. </p><p>So far as I can tell, once this goes live, brawlers will be the only class still with weapon specific AAs because the Devs continue to ignore us.</p>

[Ranja]

<cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It looks like you still have to be weaponless. </p><p>So far as I can tell, once this goes live, brawlers will be the only class still with weapon specific AAs because the Devs continue to ignore us.</p></blockquote> Nope not true. All AAs that required a shield or ranged are staying the same. I have a 70 ranger that has an AA called Point Blank Shot. It requires a bow. It will still require a bow. The sky is not falling<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Actually, all AA's that give personal Double Attack in some form either require using a buckler or offhand free. Bard also get one that increases the group's double attack, but it maxes at a low % (10% i believe). So we are somewhat in the same boat for Double Attackness. However, what sucks is that the 2nd tier ability still requires both hands empty (for no real reason other than they didn't bother to change it). Same with the 4th tier ability to riposte. What these have to do with weapons exactly, I don't know. If they change all dual wielders to be onehanded in damage, then they should just make it so we can either get the double attack with barehands, or with one weapon in primary. That would about equal everyone else, give us a little dps boost, and still give leveling a nice option. They may have to reduce the amount a bit so we aren't overpowered.. but whatever. 80% would still be great.

[Ganeden]

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It looks like you still have to be weaponless. </p><p>So far as I can tell, once this goes live, brawlers will be the only class still with weapon specific AAs because the Devs continue to ignore us.</p></blockquote> Nope not true. All AAs that required a shield or ranged are staying the same. I have a 70 ranger that has an AA called Point Blank Shot. It requires a bow. It will still require a bow. The sky is not falling<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> So %$^ Sherlock. We're not talking about ranged items or sheilds here, we're talking about regular weapons and this is the only one that doesn't have the weapon requirment taken away. The ONLY ONE!</p><p> This is so rediculous, the devs could have really helped brawlers out here and they just decided to ignore it once again. THE DEVS SUCK. God, we've been telling them our issues for a year and the ignore us every chance they get. I was hoping when I saw the test notes that the would change their mind, but no, they gave the big middle finger to brawlers once again.</p><p> The issues we have with this class and the devs not caring is SO frustrating that I just want to quit.</p>

[Lana]

<cite>Ganeden wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It looks like you still have to be weaponless. </p><p>So far as I can tell, once this goes live, brawlers will be the only class still with weapon specific AAs because the Devs continue to ignore us.</p></blockquote> Nope not true. All AAs that required a shield or ranged are staying the same. I have a 70 ranger that has an AA called Point Blank Shot. It requires a bow. It will still require a bow. The sky is not falling<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> So %$^ Sherlock. We're not talking about ranged items or sheilds here, we're talking about regular weapons and this is the only one that doesn't have the weapon requirment taken away. The ONLY ONE!</p><p> This is so rediculous, the devs could have really helped brawlers out here and they just decided to ignore it once again. THE DEVS SUCK. God, we've been telling them our issues for a year and the ignore us every chance they get. I was hoping when I saw the test notes that the would change their mind, but no, they gave the big middle finger to brawlers once again.</p><p> The issues we have with this class and the devs not caring is SO frustrating that I just want to quit.</p></blockquote>I think it's time for you to make a new toon. Or play WoW. I get really tired of people badmouthing 'the devs' because they don't implement everything that is demanded on these forums. EQ2 is a massive, incredible game. Yes, it has flaws. But everything does. Badmouthing 'the devs' because they don't 'fix' your 'broken' class is just BS. I know there are issues with the class, but it sure seems like everyone feels the sky is falling on the brawlers alone. Poor broken class, and all the people who are stuck playing it! If you don't like the class you play then don't play it anymore! Roll a Druid, that seems to be what everyone else does. Or you can play checkers. I hear that game is perfect. It's multiplayer too!

[ganjookie]

Lana@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote><cite>Ganeden wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It looks like you still have to be weaponless. </p><p>So far as I can tell, once this goes live, brawlers will be the only class still with weapon specific AAs because the Devs continue to ignore us.</p></blockquote> Nope not true. All AAs that required a shield or ranged are staying the same. I have a 70 ranger that has an AA called Point Blank Shot. It requires a bow. It will still require a bow. The sky is not falling<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> So %$^ Sherlock. We're not talking about ranged items or sheilds here, we're talking about regular weapons and this is the only one that doesn't have the weapon requirment taken away. The ONLY ONE!</p><p> This is so rediculous, the devs could have really helped brawlers out here and they just decided to ignore it once again. THE DEVS SUCK. God, we've been telling them our issues for a year and the ignore us every chance they get. I was hoping when I saw the test notes that the would change their mind, but no, they gave the big middle finger to brawlers once again.</p><p> The issues we have with this class and the devs not caring is SO frustrating that I just want to quit.</p></blockquote><span style="color: #000033">I think it's time for you to make a new toon. Or play WoW. I get really tired of people badmouthing 'the devs' because they don't implement everything that is demanded on these forums. EQ2 is a massive, incredible game. Yes, it has flaws. But everything does. </span><span style="color: #000033">Badmouthing 'the devs' because they don't 'fix' your 'broken' class is just BS. I know there are issues with the class, but it sure seems like everyone feels the sky is falling on the brawlers alone. Poor broken class, and all the people who are stuck playing it! If you don't like the class you play then don't play it anymore! Roll a Druid, that seems to be what everyone else does. Or you can play checkers. I hear that game is perfect. It's multiplayer too!</span> </blockquote>There are no Bruiser/Brawler devs to bad mouth.  thats the [Removed for Content] problem.  The reason we are frustrated is because there is no apparent plan for us, there is NO talk on the bruiser forums on what they plan to do.  We just get updates on the test server board. We can badmouth all we want, it just falls on deaf ears.

[Dorieon]

<blockquote>I think it's time for you to make a new toon. Or play WoW. I get really tired of people badmouthing 'the devs' because they don't implement everything that is demanded on these forums. EQ2 is a massive, incredible game. Yes, it has flaws. But everything does. Badmouthing 'the devs' because they don't 'fix' your 'broken' class is just BS. I know there are issues with the class, but it sure seems like everyone feels the sky is falling on the brawlers alone. Poor broken class, and all the people who are stuck playing it! If you don't like the class you play then don't play it anymore! Roll a Druid, that seems to be what everyone else does. Or you can play checkers. I hear that game is perfect. It's multiplayer too! </blockquote><p> I am actually very tired of this statement.  Why should we have to roll a new toon just because SOE refuses to make us useful in raids. We pay the same monthly fee that everyone else does and there was no disclaimer when I rolled my monk 2 years ago that said "when you hit 70 you will only be worthwhile when solo or in groups".  Forgive us for [Removed for Content], but most of us remember when our class was good and all of you other classes bitched about it and got us nerfed beyond functionality. Yes, we are great solo. Yes, we are good in groups. But why should any class be passed over for raids. I know it is a supposed small portion of the community, but it is as big a part as soloing. </p><p>I raid all the time with my monk and I parse ok,  but my guild could do alot better if I sat and let somone else take my spot. I don't want to MT a raid, but would it be so bad if a brawler could tank a end game raid zone (not KoS)? Since we can't tank them, would it be so bad if we did better dps? Would it be horrible if we did the same dps but maybe got a useful buff or debuff to make us wanted on a raid. When alot of raiding guilds won't even consider a certain class for a spot, I believe there is a problem. Our tanking is subpar because plate tanks complained. Our dps is lower because scouts bitched about it. It seems the only way to get things done is to complain. Do us a favor and don't troll our forums if all you are interested in saying is 'quit whining, when your class is one of the reasons we are stuck in our current rut. </p>

[ganjookie]

^^ Hear hear

[Cocytus]

<p>While I think bruisers have gripes that are well founded, griping about the strength line requiring you to be bare fisted is rather stupid. If it didn't, it would be overpowered.</p><p>That's really all I can say.</p>

[edyts]

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It looks like you still have to be weaponless. </p><p>So far as I can tell, once this goes live, brawlers will be the only class still with weapon specific AAs because the Devs continue to ignore us.</p></blockquote> Nope not true. All AAs that required a shield or ranged are staying the same. I have a 70 ranger that has an AA called Point Blank Shot. It requires a bow. It will still require a bow. The sky is not falling<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Quote a ranjer requiring a bow doesnt see to be a weaopn requirement thats hard to accomplish.  Its like my mantis proc requires ranged weapon...when dont i have a ranged weapon?

[Cornbread Muffin]

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>While I think bruisers have gripes that are well founded, griping about the strength line requiring you to be bare fisted is rather stupid. If it didn't, it would be overpowered.</p><p>That's really all I can say.</p></blockquote>Like most of the lines that have been changed regarding weapon restrictions we expect rebalancing to occur to cope with this.

[Kaycerzan]

Let me first say that I'm only up to 50 with my bruiser, so I'm still learning. I haven't even quite figured out what weapon rating I need to make it worthwhile to switch over from the STR bare knuckle boxer stuff. However, I am a fully fledged wizard, and as you are making reference to wanting your barefist line to allow weapons, allow me to point out that in for sorcerers, the exchange for removing the freehand restriction was an across the board reduction in that the AA line allowed, including having the brainstorm skill cut in half. Now, if you're willing to see things like the crushing debuff of Pressure point cut to 200, and the double attack component of Relentless Punches but from 96% to 60%, your dps dropped from 20 to 15 or so.... then perhaps they'll cut you a deal. Given that my understanding is there's weapons good enough out there that most brawlers leave this line anyway, somehow I doubt you'll be willing to make those kind of concessions.  And trust me, if you go look at some of the complaints about loss of dps amongst wizards, you'll understand that payment for that freehand item was most definitely made.... and this was for ONE item back, you're (I'm guessing) speaking of wanting weapons for both hands. "Rebalancing" may occur, but for my experience up to level 50... i most certainly hope it doesn't. I feel particularly well balanced at this time, and would prefer not to make the above concessions.

[Bobbette]

The issue with the brawler lines is ... SOE intended to make all the lines about equally attractive for classes while retaining the ability to customize your character to your preferfed playstyle. Unfortunately for us, SOE ended up just reinforcing the the inequities that existed previously.  One of the most popular lines was made even more attractive when they improved Crane Flock.  Almost everyone goes Int for the melee crits and eagle spin.  And there's still a vocal minority that uses the strength line which is worthless to a good portion of us because even legendary weapons can outdamage unarmed strength when you get to the end levels. Not to mention we lost out on SOE's attempt to address our mitigation issues when they pulled the suggested changes to the strength line. I would have liked to see something done that was similar to the crusader joust line ... over there if you're on a horse you get X+Y, if you're not on the horse you get X.  This would have opened the strength line to consideration by more than just lower level characters (without weapons that exceed unarmed) while retaining that option for them.  Perhaps in the future they'll consider doing something like that.  But for now, I don't see much changed in the grand scheme of things.  I'm happy with my reduced casting time for Crane Flock but disappointed that not enough changed to warrant me even glancing at lines I don't have.

[tt66]

<cite>Kaycerzan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Let me first say that I'm only up to 50 with my bruiser, so I'm still learning. I haven't even quite figured out what weapon rating I need to make it worthwhile to switch over from the STR bare knuckle boxer stuff. However, I am a fully fledged wizard, and as you are making reference to wanting your barefist line to allow weapons, allow me to point out that in for sorcerers, the exchange for removing the freehand restriction was an across the board reduction in that the AA line allowed, including having the brainstorm skill cut in half. Now, if you're willing to see things like the crushing debuff of Pressure point cut to 200, and the double attack component of Relentless Punches but from 96% to 60%, your dps dropped from 20 to 15 or so.... then perhaps they'll cut you a deal. Given that my understanding is there's weapons good enough out there that most brawlers leave this line anyway, somehow I doubt you'll be willing to make those kind of concessions.  And trust me, if you go look at some of the complaints about loss of dps amongst wizards, you'll understand that payment for that freehand item was most definitely made.... and this was for ONE item back, you're (I'm guessing) speaking of wanting weapons for both hands. "Rebalancing" may occur, but for my experience up to level 50... i most certainly hope it doesn't. I feel particularly well balanced at this time, and would prefer not to make the above concessions. </blockquote>I have no idea what you're saying here. Some sort of attempt at using the Bruiser forum to complain about changes to the Wizard class? I honestly have no idea about Wizards, or how the changes to Freehand Sorcery might affect them, so I can't comment. All I will say is that I can't see how it  applies to Bruisers, unless you're suggesting that because something bad happened to Wizards then something equally bad has to happen to Bruisers in order for it  to be fair? (and how I wish everyone else on these forums would refrain from commenting on things they know nothing about!).

[Agaxiq]

The WIS line of Sorcerers required the secondary slot to be empty to gain the benefits. That restriction was removed, but our 2nd-to-last ability, which increased ALL spell damage by 8%, was cut to 4%.  It was a big nerf.  Freehand Sorcery itself was also nerfed in damage, and our ward, which used to be all damage, was reduced to all magical damage. Being able to use that slot in almost all circumstances doesn't make up for the 4% loss in DPS as well as the Freehand Nerf.   Brawlers had their STR nerf removed, so I'm guessing he should say that we shouldn't complain <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> However, as someone who has a 70 warlock and a 70 bruiser, the bruiser still has a lot more to complain about, even with them leaving our STR line alone.  STR line is really just useful for leveling, I doubt many end-game players use it. At least sorcerers can re-spec to STR/AGI and make up most of the dps they lost when WIS was nerfed (which is what I did, although I miss WIS...) agressiv

[Astornoth]

So true as it comes 2 sorcerer damage ..as long with Rift so called fix ...(ARGHHH!)..and reduce damage of fusion and Ice Nova of wizzies (double ARGHH!)it been hard time but then again those 2 profesion get GREAT benefit in their defensive ability (specely important in PvP) from Mana shiled upgrade and Brawler get like...hmmm reduce time from Drag?

[silentpsycho]

Can someone explain how having the STR line work with weapons is overpowered?  Would it make me parse, oh, for example in the ballpark of a brigand?  If so, why would this be remotely OP?  Is it because some scouts have the same avoidance and higher mitigation and about the same taunt capacity as a bruiser (but with far better debuffs) that meeting the scout dps would be OP?  Frankly, I think the term overpowered is overpowered and overused.

[Kaycerzan]

I wasn't using these forums to complain about wizards. I made my decision long ago not to even go freehand, so the accusation is moot. What I was getting at, much as agressiv4 said, is that when they changed our "no item here" AA to allow items, it nerfed the line in a way that for some people it's no longer worth using.  And that was for us to be allowed ONE item. You're not going to get a handout from Sony and just have the bottom two lines of each STR AA ability removed. If it happens, you're going to pay for it in reduced numbers across the board.  Probably so much that you'll just stay with the AAs you have now, because it just won't be worth it to switch. As for dps issues, everyone has their own opinion of where they should be on the chart and why.  I'm not going to poke at any of the numerous reasons why and how classes place on the dps-o-meter, but in response to you silentpsycho, your argument is valid right up to the point where I don't see any scouts pulling epicx4 mobs, feigning death, healing themselves to try again when it fails, and rezzing clerics post-wipe, without running back from the zone-in.   When I see scouts doing the above, then I'll raise my voice for more brawler dps.  But until then I'll appreciate every last drop of time that our brawlers are holding off 75x4 mobs after the scouts have been torn asunder.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Kaycerzan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wasn't using these forums to complain about wizards. I made my decision long ago not to even go freehand, so the accusation is moot. What I was getting at, much as agressiv4 said, is that when they changed our "no item here" AA to allow items, it nerfed the line in a way that for some people it's no longer worth using.  And that was for us to be allowed ONE item. You're not going to get a handout from Sony and just have the bottom two lines of each STR AA ability removed. If it happens, you're going to pay for it in reduced numbers across the board.  Probably so much that you'll just stay with the AAs you have now, because it just won't be worth it to switch. As for dps issues, everyone has their own opinion of where they should be on the chart and why.  I'm not going to poke at any of the numerous reasons why and how classes place on the dps-o-meter, but in response to you silentpsycho, your argument is valid right up to the point where I don't see any scouts pulling epicx4 mobs, feigning death, healing themselves to try again when it fails, and rezzing clerics post-wipe, without running back from the zone-in.   When I see scouts doing the above, then I'll raise my voice for more brawler dps.  But until then I'll appreciate every last drop of time that our brawlers are holding off 75x4 mobs after the scouts have been torn asunder. </blockquote><p>I don't understand the point of your counter argument.  Are you trying to say that chain armored scouts don't have better mitigation than similarly equipped leather clad bruisers?  Are you trying to contest the reality that some scouts have FD (as do some higher dps classes and plate tanks for that matter)?  Are you saying we are the only class that has a heal?  I know of a lot of classes that heal just as good if not better.  </p><p>My question, really, is how bad would it be, really, if Brawlers were given the option to sacrifice some tankability for DPS in their builds (which is exactly what the STR line represents to a limited extent), and more specifically, how bad would it be if our dps were to approach that of, say a rogue?  Why would this be a bad thing since I now have to contend with people saying "let the brigand tank" and when I do the /inspect to counter that argument, I'm forced to bend over and take it.  Because, to the group, it is the better option.</p><p>How long do you really think a brawler in a dps group is going to hold off an epic x4 mob?  Like one milisecond is really going to save the raid LOL. </p>

[tt66]

<cite>Kaycerzan wrote:</cite><blockquote>You're not going to get a handout from Sony and just have the bottom two lines of each STR AA ability removed. If it happens, you're going to pay for it in reduced numbers across the board.  Probably so much that you'll just stay with the AAs you have now, because it just won't be worth it to switch. </blockquote>Ah, okay. So you're saying that the multitude of brawlers who were expecting 96% doubleattack with their fabled weapons had unrealistic expectations. Well.. uh.. thanks for the input?

[Madmoon]

<cite>tt66 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kaycerzan wrote: Ah, okay. So you're saying that the multitude of brawlers who were expecting 96% doubleattack with their fabled weapons had unrealistic expectations. </blockquote><p>Hooo... I think that's a fairly unrealistic expectation!  Guess I am in that fourth percentile.  You sure on those numbers?  Not a little prone to exaggeration?</p><p>And who are all these brigands and swashers out-tanking us?  Their gear must be something!  I would love to be similarly equipped.  I doubt they'd be out-tanking me then.  In my circles, any swasher or brigand gets uppity like that gets laughed at, and may be allowed to test the yard trash, before we put him back in stealth.</p><p>Here's a complete rumor, but it might be part of the discussion:  I have a friend on test.  He said that all the weapons are one-handers (a-la EQ1) and that SOE reduced the damage on the off-hand (or both hands, if both were equipped, he wasn't clear) <b>except</b> for brawlers.  He claims brawler DPS as a result is pretty impressive.  That would tie in to the desire that brawlers abilities would scale with weapons, BUT you could still go free-hand if you want, similar to the way shaman <i>can</i> use their dog, if they want, with one line.  As always, what's on test may or may not make it over to live, and even if it does, might be in an altered form. </p>

[Kaycerzan]

Chain armored scouts do have more mitigation. THEY WEAR CHAIN.  Brawlers have higher natural avoidance. Other classes have feign death.  Shadowknights do.  They also don't sustain 3/4 the dps of a brawler. I didn't say you're the only class with a heal. But only non-priest class that has anything close to a Mend / Ignore Wounds ability is a Paladin's Lay Hands.  And last I looked it wasn't 50% of their health every 2 minutes. Should the AA lines give you more of a spread between tanking or dps?  Probably.  But my guess would be, if the scouts you're looking at are that much better, then they're either already getting tanking buffs, or there's a big disparity in the type of gear your brawlers are wearing vs the scouts. Our brawlers typically are top12 in dps, and don't make the chart because to do so gives our tanks hell.  Do the scouts parse higher? Yeah. But the scouts are also dead the moment something turns on them.  The brawlers hold the line, and it's for much more than a millisecond. How long do I think? Let's speak on what I know rather than what I think.... brawlers holding x4 mobs for +/- 4 minutes while it's burnned down, or until a tank can jump back on it.  Brawlers being used as the primary tanks for some KoS dragons - the whole fight. But then, if this isn't your experience than I'm obiously full of crap and just trying to troll the brawler boards, because since my brawler is my alt I don't REALLY care about the class, I just wanna make sure the class is kept in a cage so it can't threaten anyone's dps or tanking jobs. You can just go back to telling Sony to increase all of your abilities so that guardians and scouts come down on you again for being "overpowered."

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Kaycerzan wrote:</cite><blockquote></delete redundancy> ... I'm obiously full of crap and just trying to troll the brawler boards, because since my brawler is my alt I don't REALLY care about the class, I just wanna make sure the class is kept in a cage so it can't threaten anyone's dps or tanking jobs. You can just go back to telling Sony to increase all of your abilities so that guardians and scouts come down on you again for being "overpowered." </blockquote><p> Thanks for your honesty.</p><p>Have a day.</p>

[Taiken]

<p><span style="font-size: xx-small">Kaycerzan wrote: </span></p><blockquote><span style="font-size: xx-small">Chain armored scouts do have more mitigation. THEY WEAR CHAIN.  Brawlers have higher natural avoidance. Other classes have feign death.  Shadowknights do.  They also don't sustain 3/4 the dps of a brawler. I didn't say you're the only class with a heal. But only non-priest class that has anything close to a Mend / Ignore Wounds ability is a Paladin's Lay Hands.  And last I looked it wasn't 50% of their health every 2 minutes. Should the AA lines give you more of a spread between tanking or dps?  Probably.  But my guess would be, if the scouts you're looking at are that much better, then they're either already getting tanking buffs, or there's a big disparity in the type of gear your brawlers are wearing vs the scouts. Our brawlers typically are top12 in dps, and don't make the chart because to do so gives our tanks hell.  Do the scouts parse higher? Yeah. But the scouts are also dead the moment something turns on them.  The brawlers hold the line, and it's for much more than a millisecond. How long do I think? Let's speak on what I know rather than what I think.... brawlers holding x4 mobs for +/- 4 minutes while it's burnned down, or until a tank can jump back on it.  Brawlers being used as the primary tanks for some KoS dragons - the whole fight. But then, if this isn't your experience than I'm obiously full of crap and just trying to troll the brawler boards, because since my brawler is my alt I don't REALLY care about the class, I just wanna make sure the class is kept in a cage so it can't threaten anyone's dps or tanking jobs. You can just go back to telling Sony to increase all of your abilities so that guardians and scouts come down on you again for being "overpowered."</span> </blockquote><p>I think the problem is pretty simple.. </p><p>We dont do enough DPS to be invited to a raid. We can't tank well enough to be invited to a raid. We dont offer enough utilities to be invited to a raid. We certainly cannot heal well enough to be invited to a raid. </p><p>You think this is complaining huh?.. Well all this complaining would all go away, AND we wouldn't even ask for changes from the dev if you just invited our brawlers into raids in the first place. All you other classes even tell us that we are not needed in raids, we dont contribute enough, we don't do enough dps - that confirms our need for changes. So what we can hold a epic longer than a scout.. Want to know why? Because our tsunami is up.. Because our heal is up.. And if their down, better believe we're not gonna rescue the tank.. We no better that if a tank with better avoidance wearing plate armour couldn't tank that epic well enough... I'm gonna have to take a chance and bet that a brawler, who's avoidance is lower and mitigation is lower... Isn't going to do much better... </p><p>What's even more ironic is that this guy is comparing a figher class - the brawler, to a ranger/assasin which is a scout.. That pretty much speaks for itself as to what we are being compared to in terms of tanking ability. </p><p>[Removed for Content] @ brawlers being overpowered.. haha.. That'll be the day.. Go back to whatever norrath you came from buddy.. </p>

[Davngr1]

i like the bare hands AA line it sucks for dueling and for tanking  but it's awsome for dps when played right.  my bruiser is my wiz in leather i try to get as much dps out of him as i can. when someone ask me to tank i i try to squirm out of it any way possible  the same way some other brawlers try to make excuses for their dps being subpar.  and thats what's nice about the brawler imo you can crank out the highst consistant dps out of all the fighther clases or can tank just about any instance in eq2 (limited only by gear). if another fighther class out parses you ZW and your in full dps buffs and gear (comperable to his) he's not just a better player than you he's a MUCH better player than you, and they are out there and i love to group with them because they push me to be better.

[tt66]

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i like the bare hands AA line it sucks for dueling and for tanking  but it's awsome for dps when played right.  my bruiser is my wiz in leather i try to get as much dps out of him as i can. when someone ask me to tank i i try to squirm out of it any way possible  the same way some other brawlers try to make excuses for their dps being subpar.  and thats what's nice about the brawler imo you can crank out the highst consistant dps out of all the fighther clases or can tank just about any instance in eq2 (limited only by gear). if another fighther class out parses you ZW and your in full dps buffs and gear (comperable to his) he's not just a better player than you he's a MUCH better player than you, and they are out there and i love to group with them because they push me to be better.</blockquote> Riiiiight. I'm gonna go ahead and make an assumption here, tell me if I'm wide of the mark... "You don't raid much, do you?"

[Davngr1]

i dont raid much  but when i do i parse very well for my class. i guess my thiinking is that if i can do it so can others after all game play is the same for evryone. either way i like the str line and to allow weaps would over power the line for the fabled bruisers ( would be nerfed instanly) and would take away my ability to do ok dps with out having to fable out my toon.   i have nothing against enhancing *brawler raid utulity/dps* just dont take away my favorite AA line to do it.