So you wanna stop level locking and improve end game pvp

[Saintedone]

<p>I've been thinking about this for a while but am a bit leary about how the devs could make this or break this.</p><p>Simply make everything faction based and scale pvp reward in realation to level, meaning if your level 70 you CAN attack anyone from the other faction.</p><p>Set up FFA zones like KoS but Im thinking once you get out of say Antonica or Commonlands your targetable by the other faction. Make Antonica and Commonlands have sort of City like pvp meaning that there faction will tag them pvp while the newbies and low levels are protected from pvp if they dont engage, also allows the diffrent factions the ability to take first shot at the opposite faction in there territory.</p><p>This can and will make the level lockers have to advance there toons or face the consequences of:</p><p>A) Sit in Commonlands or Antonica</p><p>B) No chance for AA's !.5 rule</p><p>C) They wont be able to gank new players trying to learn how to play</p><p>Upside to this will be</p><p>A) new players </p><p>B) Players have the ability to gradually move into pvp instead of being thrown into it and run over</p><p>C) bring some honorability to EQ2's pvp FACTIONAL PRIDE</p><p>D) Still can mentor no problem helping friends learn how to play</p><p>E) Scaled pvp rewards based on levels will mean that the higher levels get nothing for killing greys but can retaliate to the gank squads running rampent EXAMPLE of scale would be something like your base faction reward for killing a title player + 1 for a level 1 - level 70 destroyer kills a level 25 destroyer = gets no faction for title kill because of the level diffrence but does get 25 points for the 25 level making it really inconsequential for the kill but its still faction <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Level 70 destroyer kills a level 70 destroyer and gets title reward points +70 points for the level kill or something like that.  </p><p>Tell me what you think - I HAVE LEVEL LOCKED TOONS - You can still level lock but it will take the uber almighty godlike gankers outta the gameplay and still give friends the oppertunity to level up together. I personally dont see a bunch of 70's camping the towers for lower level players to get 20 points of faction lol. Thers to much to do in EQ2 and with all the 70s in the fray there will be major fights if it comes up. the players will be able to police there own PVP...</p><p>Anyway tell me what you think <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PS- this has nothing to do with the other issues in PVP classes and balance to pvp but hits specifically on issues we all know exist, be well.</p>

[Leorange]

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>but it will take the uber almighty godlike gankers outta the gameplay </p></blockquote><p> I assume you're addressing the t2 xp-disabled twinks?</p><p>Nobody can lock levels, only SOE does it: in lvl70. That's also the level where most 'uber almighty green-harvesting godlikes' are <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Anyway, as you might have noticed I have a problem with all these same and alike levellock posts. But one thing sticked from yours(it might be what you tried to say even heh) and thats</p><p><i>Make all city zones, including Commonlands and Antonica (you better add DarkWood + GreaterFayDark too) 'city pvp' with carnageflags.</i> </p><p>K, that's a new vision.</p><p>I agree that that would drive out the t2 ganksquads from these "newb-till-I'm-lvl20 zones".  The enemy is gone, and 70's are not needed to protect the youngsters too. I mean it's not that we see the t2 twinks in Longshadow or QeynosHarbor today, do we? Right. </p><p>But please, enlighten me: How on earth would a person get 750 kills for his lvl 20 pvpgear again? And do youngsters enjoy a twenty-level-pvpless life to begin with?</p><p>ohwell.. Slay on.</p>

[Rhannnn]

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I'.</p><p>Simply make everything faction based and scale pvp reward in realation to level, meaning if your level 70 you CAN attack anyone from the other faction.</p><p>Set up FFA zones like KoS but Im thinking once you get out of say Antonica or Commonlands your targetable by the other faction. Make Antonica and Commonlands have sort of City like pvp meaning that there faction will tag them pvp while the newbies and low levels are protected from pvp if they dont engage, also allows the diffrent factions the ability to take first shot at the opposite faction in there territory.</p><p>This can and will make the level lockers have to advance there toons or face the consequences of:</p><p>A) Sit in Commonlands or Antonica</p><p>B) No chance for AA's !.5 rule</p><p>C) They wont be able to gank new players trying to learn how to play</p><p>Upside to this will be</p><p>A) new players </p><p>B) Players have the ability to gradually move into pvp instead of being thrown into it and run over</p><p>C) bring some honorability to EQ2's pvp FACTIONAL PRIDE</p><p>D) Still can mentor no problem helping friends learn how to playp> </p></blockquote> Hey, I've got an even better idea !! Let's disable ALL PVP on ALL zones !! That way the new players will have a great opportunity to learn to play their class all the way up to 70 !! O wait .... we have those zones already ... you can find them on the blue servers Rhan 70 Ranger GroeneDraeck

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I've been thinking about this for a while but am a bit leary about how the devs could make this or break this.</p><p>Simply make everything faction based and scale pvp reward in realation to level, meaning if your level 70 you CAN attack anyone from the other faction.</p><p>Set up FFA zones like KoS but Im thinking once you get out of say Antonica or Commonlands your targetable by the other faction. Make Antonica and Commonlands have sort of City like pvp meaning that there faction will tag them pvp while the newbies and low levels are protected from pvp if they dont engage, also allows the diffrent factions the ability to take first shot at the opposite faction in there territory.</p><p>This can and will make the level lockers have to advance there toons or face the consequences of:</p><p>A) Sit in Commonlands or Antonica</p><p>B) No chance for AA's !.5 rule</p><p>C) They wont be able to gank new players trying to learn how to play</p><p>Upside to this will be</p><p>A) new players </p><p>B) Players have the ability to gradually move into pvp instead of being thrown into it and run over</p><p>C) bring some honorability to EQ2's pvp FACTIONAL PRIDE</p><p>D) Still can mentor no problem helping friends learn how to play</p><p>E) Scaled pvp rewards based on levels will mean that the higher levels get nothing for killing greys but can retaliate to the gank squads running rampent EXAMPLE of scale would be something like your base faction reward for killing a title player + 1 for a level 1 - level 70 destroyer kills a level 25 destroyer = gets no faction for title kill because of the level diffrence but does get 25 points for the 25 level making it really inconsequential for the kill but its still faction <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Level 70 destroyer kills a level 70 destroyer and gets title reward points +70 points for the level kill or something like that.  </p><p>Tell me what you think - I HAVE LEVEL LOCKED TOONS - You can still level lock but it will take the uber almighty godlike gankers outta the gameplay and still give friends the oppertunity to level up together. I personally dont see a bunch of 70's camping the towers for lower level players to get 20 points of faction lol. Thers to much to do in EQ2 and with all the 70s in the fray there will be major fights if it comes up. the players will be able to police there own PVP...</p><p>Anyway tell me what you think <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PS- this has nothing to do with the other issues in PVP classes and balance to pvp but hits specifically on issues we all know exist, be well.</p></blockquote><p>Some interesting ideals. Sadly the low level lockers just want to get their gank on so even cool ideals like this are lost on them. You will get more flames and L2P responses then you can shake a stick at.<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>OMG LOOK OUT</p><p><WHACK></p><p>"oooo the pain"</p><p><WHACK></p><p>"argh ahhhhh"</p><p><WHACK></p><p>(giggle)</p><p>(HE IS STILL MOVING)</p><p>"omg shut u..."</p><p><WHACK WHACK WHACK WHACK></p><p>"whimper"</p><p>(ooo thats got to hurt)</p><p>Me watching GroeneDraeck get beat down with the nerf bat..</p><p>Heh heh heh heh heh</p><p><img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p>

[Rhannnn]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OMG LOOK OUT</p><p><WHACK></p><p>"oooo the pain"</p><p><WHACK></p><p>"argh ahhhhh"</p><p><WHACK></p><p>(giggle)</p><p>(HE IS STILL MOVING)</p><p>"omg shut u..."</p><p><WHACK WHACK WHACK WHACK></p><p>"whimper"</p><p>(ooo thats got to hurt)</p><p>Me watching GroeneDraeck get beat down with the nerf bat..</p><p>Heh heh heh heh heh</p><p><img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p></blockquote><p>Wow Cresent.</p><p>Are you absolutely positive you just want things to be balanced, be more fair ? Or do you just want to get classes nerfed for your own enjoyment ? .. because it sure looks like it judging your ' contribution '  in this thread.</p><p>Rhan</p><p>Lvl70 Ranger</p><p>O btw: GroeneDraeck is a guild name .....</p><p>edited for typos</p>

[Norrsken]

Best way ever to get the lvl locking farm squads to start leveling up is to fix mentoring and allow pvp while mentoring. Imagine the fun of being able to draw your entire guild together, of all levels to kick some stupid faction farmers out of the zone where they are bothering one of your teeny guildies. Or just to go there to kick people out disturbing new players. Let players police themselves instead of coming up with even more rules. A self policed community is far better than once being policed by rules. Rules can always be circumvented. trying to outrun a gang of 20-40 players out to get you gets kind of hard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Not to mention, people mentoring down from 70 will know their class very well, which should make for more interresting fights than the poor people just having rolled a new class and are trying to get the ropes. So, not only will this allow for people to toss out bothersome farmers, but also, it will bring t2 what the lvl lockers claim they want; danger and skilled opponents. Now, if they cant stand the heat, well, they'll get out of the kitchen. That is, lvl up. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Probably all the way to 70 (or 80, as it will be)

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Rhannnn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>OMG LOOK OUT</p><p><WHACK></p><p>"oooo the pain"</p><p><WHACK></p><p>"argh ahhhhh"</p><p><WHACK></p><p>(giggle)</p><p>(HE IS STILL MOVING)</p><p>"omg shut u..."</p><p><WHACK WHACK WHACK WHACK></p><p>"whimper"</p><p>(ooo thats got to hurt)</p><p>Me watching GroeneDraeck get beat down with the nerf bat..</p><p>Heh heh heh heh heh</p><p><img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p></blockquote><p>Wow Cresent.</p><p>Are you absolutely positive you just want things to be balanced, be more fair ? Or do you just want to get classes nerfed for your own enjoyment ? .. because it sure looks like it judging your ' contribution '  in this thread.</p><p>Rhan</p><p>Lvl70 Ranger</p><p>O btw: GroeneDraeck is a guild name .....</p><p>edited for typos</p></blockquote>Oh dont be such a drama queen, scouts have been king of pvp since launch and just now are being brought into line with the rest of the classes. Oh ya man I feel so bad for you.

[Bloodfa]

<p>Some interesting ideas there.  I like the Carnage flag idea, but then I've suggested something like that myself in a couple other threads, so I'm biased.  I've never understood the "Oh, look, they're killing the crap out of everything here.  If only I wasn't so powerful that I could do something about it...." concept.  Locked teens owning a zone.  Higher level toon zones out to said zone, saves the day because they're flagged.  Savior is now flagged.  Lowbies log and get their higher level toons.  Come back and gank the snot out of savior.  Now they're flagged.  That would make for escalating PvP in almost all the hot spots.  But you'd also need to keep the Carnage flagged guys from just running and hiding behind the gates, so make them unable to zone into town or bell while flagged.  And make the flag carry over into camping, so there would be no "slaughter-camp-wait 15 minutes-zone in-repeat" abusers.  </p><p>But I'm sure there will be a "You just want to be able to roll in with your T7 toon and wipe" gripe.  But the only ones attackable would be aggressors.  And they would be guaranteed a chance to get back with a payback squad.  Just need to work on the rewards system to keep it non-profitable for a 68 to gain from bug-swatting.</p><p>Bring on the flames...</p>

[CresentBlade]

<img src="http://www.freefoto.com/images/33/15/33_15_10---Fire-Flame-Texture_web.jpg?&k=Fire+%2F+Flame+Texture" border="0">

[Xantinya]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><span style="color: #ff0000"><b>Best way ever to get the lvl locking farm squads to start leveling up is to fix mentoring and allow pvp while mentoring. </b></span> Imagine the fun of being able to draw your entire guild together, of all levels to kick some stupid faction farmers out of the zone where they are bothering one of your teeny guildies. Or just to go there to kick people out disturbing new players. Let players police themselves instead of coming up with even more rules. A self policed community is far better than once being policed by rules. Rules can always be circumvented. trying to outrun a gang of 20-40 players out to get you gets kind of hard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Not to mention, people mentoring down from 70 will know their class very well, which should make for more interresting fights than the poor people just having rolled a new class and are trying to get the ropes. So, not only will this allow for people to toss out bothersome farmers, but also, it will bring t2 what the lvl lockers claim they want; danger and skilled opponents. Now, if they cant stand the heat, well, they'll get out of the kitchen. That is, lvl up. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Probably all the way to 70 (or 80, as it will be) </blockquote>Bingo.  The reason why I lock some of my chars is to pvp with friends and guildies since we can't pvp while mentoring, if they could fix it and allow us to pvp while mentoring I wouldnt need to lock my chars.

[Rhannnn]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh dont be such a drama queen, scouts have been king of pvp since launch and just now are being brought into line with the rest of the classes. Oh ya man I feel so bad for you. </blockquote><p>I'm not Cresent. I'm just stating that you aren't providing any positive feedback on the changes and are merely posting in this thread to stir things up.</p><p>That in itself isn't a very grown up thing to do .. but hey .. maybe you are acting according to your age so I can't blame you.</p><p>You will be happy to know that my 70 ranger is shelved for at least 5 months now and I'm very happy while playing my Illusionist and my Warlock at the moment. So no need for sympathy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Rhan shelved lvl70 Ranger. </p><p>GroeneDraeck</p>

[Eybietie]

<p>the improved anti lvl lock crescent with even more ironic/ sarcasm and anger. he doesn´t even show his ingame charname prolly because he is too afraid getting ganked ingame ( m/b by low lvl lockers lol ) stay focused on your mission! let the lvl locker burn lol <blockquote>So you wanna stop level locking and improve end game pvp</blockquote></p><p>who said that btw? </p>

[Eybietie]

btw - all people crying fix mentor and pvp are <u><b>wrong</b></u>! people will still lvl lock because it is <b><u>fun </u></b>to look for quests in order to get achievment points and it also is <u><b>fun</b></u> to kill all the low lvl nameds in order to get some nice legendary master. <b><u>it is also fun to max your char out in every lvl</u></b> because while doing so - all the quests etc etc all out a sudden make sense doing. not to mention that you will encounter alot of pvp just by doing the quests because there are so many lvl locker doing the same quests.

[Bloodfa]

<p>The problem with it is that while that may be fun, it's abused.  There's no way anybody could seriously look at PvP in Antonica or the Commonlands, take a twinked & locked group and say "Working as intended".  I mentor down to help Guildies with quests.  I even do it for strangers.  Having to spend 30 seconds vulnerable from that first track of a freep while I unmentor sucks, but it's better than just bailing and leaving the poor bugger alone and defenseless in case I can't get unmentored.  I get ganked for my troubles more often than not.  I'm also the same kind of guy that pulls over and helps somebody change a flat tire.  I get dirty, sometimes wet and muddy, but if I can help and there's nobody else in my car whose safety I have to worry about, I'll usually do it.  </p><p>Hey, here's a thought regarding justification of the ability to actually defend yourself while mentored... how is it any different than disabling XP and twinking your [Removed for Content] to the max?  Time invested?  Digital effort?  Skill level?  Suddenly it doesn't seem very different.</p><p>Either way, we'll see if the lack of debt has an effect.  And any other suggestions will just have to wait until the next update or 3.</p>

[Eybietie]

yeah but you can solo yellow con heroics while mentored ( f.e. if a good geared 70 mentors to t3 ) the killing yourself at guards story was indeed crazy but that´s been taken care of. you want to mentor so you can help your guildies? how about making your own twink so you can grp with them?

[Bozidar]

No, they didn't want to stop xp locking, they wanted to improve it, and make it more fair.  They have.

[Roald]

<cite>Saintedone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I've been thinking about this for a while but am a bit leary about how the devs could make this or break this.</p><p>Simply make everything faction based and scale pvp reward in realation to level, meaning if your level 70 you CAN attack anyone from the other faction.</p><p>Set up FFA zones like KoS but Im thinking once you get out of say Antonica or Commonlands your targetable by the other faction. Make Antonica and Commonlands have sort of City like pvp meaning that there faction will tag them pvp while the newbies and low levels are protected from pvp if they dont engage, also allows the diffrent factions the ability to take first shot at the opposite faction in there territory.</p><p>This can and will make the level lockers have to advance there toons or face the consequences of:</p><p>A) Sit in Commonlands or Antonica</p><p>B) No chance for AA's !.5 rule</p><p>C) They wont be able to gank new players trying to learn how to play</p><p>Upside to this will be</p><p>A) new players </p><p>B) Players have the ability to gradually move into pvp instead of being thrown into it and run over</p><p>C) bring some honorability to EQ2's pvp FACTIONAL PRIDE</p><p>D) Still can mentor no problem helping friends learn how to play</p><p>E) Scaled pvp rewards based on levels will mean that the higher levels get nothing for killing greys but can retaliate to the gank squads running rampent EXAMPLE of scale would be something like your base faction reward for killing a title player + 1 for a level 1 - level 70 destroyer kills a level 25 destroyer = gets no faction for title kill because of the level diffrence but does get 25 points for the 25 level making it really inconsequential for the kill but its still faction <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Level 70 destroyer kills a level 70 destroyer and gets title reward points +70 points for the level kill or something like that.  </p><p>Tell me what you think - I HAVE LEVEL LOCKED TOONS - You can still level lock but it will take the uber almighty godlike gankers outta the gameplay and still give friends the oppertunity to level up together. I personally dont see a bunch of 70's camping the towers for lower level players to get 20 points of faction lol. Thers to much to do in EQ2 and with all the 70s in the fray there will be major fights if it comes up. the players will be able to police there own PVP...</p><p>Anyway tell me what you think <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>PS- this has nothing to do with the other issues in PVP classes and balance to pvp but hits specifically on issues we all know exist, be well.</p></blockquote> Or we could use a good idea.

[Rhannnn]

Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>the improved anti lvl lock crescent with even more ironic/ sarcasm and anger. he doesn´t even show his ingame charname prolly because he is too afraid getting ganked ingame ( m/b by low lvl lockers lol ) </p></blockquote><p> Spot on.</p><p>Come Cresent, reveal your ingame name ! Give us PVPers a mission in our pathetic little lives ! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Rhan</p><p>Lvl70 Levellocked Ranger</p><p>GroeneDraeck</p>

[Leorange]

Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>the killing yourself at guards story was indeed crazy but that´s been taken care of. </blockquote><p> It's taken care of? Isn't it still crazy if you let yourself be killed by the guards?  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> <img src="http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/HPM/BM1162~Crazy-Doesn-t-Cover-It-Posters.jpg" border="0"></p><p>And Eybietie was right /bow</p>

[Bloodfa]

I have alts of various levels, but only 2/3 are geared enough to venture outside.  The others are tradeskillers first, then sooner or later I'll level them up as needed.  64 Swash, 37 Warden, 31 Monk, 19 Wizzy, 12 Ranger, 12 Templar and a 10 Guardian.  I'm a little light in a couple of level ranges, and need to get the Guardian up in the 20's, but I digress.  For what it's worth, I don't have a problem with twinking.  If you level up high and want to send a few plat to a lowbie, well, you've paid your dues and it's no different than having a benefactor like an older sibling help you out through rough times.  The level locking/XP disable thing is what gets me irritated. 

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, they didn't want to stop xp locking, they wanted to improve it, and make it more fair.  They have.</blockquote> If it gradually forces people to evolve their characters up, then I would be in agreement.  The XP gained from killing other players without debt to offset it should make it interesting.  At least now untitled greenies should be less tempting.

[Bozidar]

<p>I would actually like to see them improve mentoring in pvp.  You can mentor down to T2, but you have to use your T2 gear (no scaling down of epic raid zone gear bs).  You have to use your T2 buffs (not the broken BS T7 buffs that you have on today when mentoring, it's OP -- fact).  You have to use your T2 combat arts.  You have to respec your AA for the cap.  <i>remove scaling from mentoring, only allow what's actually available to be used</i>.</p><p>As far as i'm concerned, if they make you on par with us, they just reduce your level, and take away everything you shouldn't have access to yet -- you're just another target at that point.  I'm cool with it.</p><p>So you think you can come gank us with those rules in place? an even playing field?  Cool, come try.  Better players have died trying <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Bozidar]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, they didn't want to stop xp locking, they wanted to improve it, and make it more fair.  They have.</blockquote> If it gradually forces people to evolve their characters up, then I would be in agreement.  The XP gained from killing other players without debt to offset it should make it interesting.  At least now untitled greenies should be less tempting. </blockquote>sorry, what xp gained from killing other players?  if combat is disabled, it's disabled.. no?

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I would actually like to see them improve mentoring in pvp.  You can mentor down to T2, but you have to use your T2 gear (no scaling down of epic raid zone gear bs).  You have to use your T2 buffs (not the broken BS T7 buffs that you have on today when mentoring, it's OP -- fact).  You have to use your T2 combat arts.  You have to respec your AA for the cap.  <i>remove scaling from mentoring, only allow what's actually available to be used</i>.</p><p>As far as i'm concerned, if they make you on par with us, they just reduce your level, and take away everything you shouldn't have access to yet -- you're just another target at that point.  I'm cool with it.</p><p>So you think you can come gank us with those rules in place? an even playing field?  Cool, come try.  Better players have died trying <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p>If they scaled the raid gear to its appropriate counterpart in PvP gear, that would be fine with me.  Personally, I don't have raid gear.  Never really developed a liking for raiding, not my cup of tea.  But if my gear scaled accordingly to what I've got on me now, I'd feel comfortable.  Factor in that we're used to <i>not</i> being able to get a guaranteed first strike if we pick a fight against a superior force.  I'd also bring along a full group, mostly mentored from T7.  I'd wager you'd have a rougher time than anticipated. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But we'll just have to wait for that fix to come down the pipe before we give it a try, eh?  Unless you're planning on making another 40 or 50 levels before then.  Which might actually happen, now that I think about it. <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>By the way, I find it amusing that two players with very different opinions on the subject can consistently express their thoughts on the topic without getting ugly about it.  Anybody else want to try?  You never know, it just might catch on.</p><p>Bozidar wrote: </p><blockquote>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, they didn't want to stop xp locking, they wanted to improve it, and make it more fair.  They have.</blockquote> If it gradually forces people to evolve their characters up, then I would be in agreement.  The XP gained from killing other players without debt to offset it should make it interesting.  At least now untitled greenies should be less tempting. </blockquote>sorry, what xp gained from killing other players?  if combat is disabled, it's disabled.. no? </blockquote><p>Hmmm, I guess I misinterpreted something from the update.  Or crossed two conversations.  I was under the impression that XP would be forced for PvP.  Could have been the beer, though.</p>

[Rhannnn]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, they didn't want to stop xp locking, they wanted to improve it, and make it more fair.  They have.</blockquote> If it gradually forces people to evolve their characters up, then I would be in agreement.  The XP gained from killing other players without debt to offset it should make it interesting.  At least now untitled greenies should be less tempting. </blockquote><p> Lets assume ppl couldn't lock. What would happen ? The current locked player base would level to higher tiers. As result leaving empty lower level zones behind.</p><p>In 6 months the few new players which enter the game (EQ2 isn't that hot anymore so I don't think we are talking thousands here) would find relatively large empty low level zones. I think a lot would quite due to the fact they hardly find any pvp. That leaves us with the few determined players who would level anyway. </p><p>So finally, after months of hard work, they encounter the enemy. I think the majority of those players are in for a surprise, because:</p><ul><li>They are ganked the [Removed for Content] out them because the zones they just entered are unlimited and the level (and gear) difference is even larger than in the low zones</li><li>They found out the class they chose is great in PVE but they don't like it in PVP for whatever reason</li></ul><p>Rhan</p><p>Levellocked 70 Ranger</p>

[Bozidar]

Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>If they scaled the raid gear to its appropriate counterpart in PvP gear, that would be fine with me.  Personally, I don't have raid gear.  Never really developed a liking for raiding, not my cup of tea.  But if my gear scaled accordingly to what I've got on me now, I'd feel comfortable.  Factor in that we're used to <i>not</i> being able to get a guaranteed first strike if we pick a fight against a superior force.  I'd also bring along a full group, mostly mentored from T7.  I'd wager you'd have a rougher time than anticipated. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But we'll just have to wait for that fix to come down the pipe before we give it a try, eh?  Unless you're planning on making another 40 or 50 levels before then.  Which might actually happen, now that I think about it. <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote><p>No need to scale things, it opens the game up to too many things that might be broken.  PvP gear at lower levels is sparse or non-existant.  You can't have full sets of it like you can at T7.  If you want to pvp at 20 and have pvp gear.. buy the lvl 20 pvp gear, put it on when you mentor.</p><p>And yes.. i plan on all of my toons getting to T7 eventually.  It's going to take a long time though..all but 1 of them are well behind on faction.  The restart from Vox didn't help <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  When my 25 team moves up to the 30's the 20 team will move up to replace.  And the 15 team will move up to replace.  Then another team will start.  It's going to be a blast when i get to 70, but it's going to take a while <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>By the way, I find it amusing that two players with very different opinions on the subject can consistently express their thoughts on the topic without getting ugly about it.  Anybody else want to try?  You never know, it just might catch on.</p></blockquote><p>Uhm.. you're a jerk or something!!!! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  There.. ruined!</p><p>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: </p><blockquote><p>Hmmm, I guess I misinterpreted something from the update.  Or crossed two conversations.  I was under the impression that XP would be forced for PvP.  Could have been the beer, though.</p></blockquote>Prolly the beer.. i didn't see anything from the notes on this.

[Bloodfa]

<cite>Rhannnn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote>No, they didn't want to stop xp locking, they wanted to improve it, and make it more fair.  They have.</blockquote> If it gradually forces people to evolve their characters up, then I would be in agreement.  The XP gained from killing other players without debt to offset it should make it interesting.  At least now untitled greenies should be less tempting. </blockquote><p> Lets assume ppl couldn't lock. What would happen ? The current locked player base would level to higher tiers. As result leaving empty lower level zones behind.</p><p>In 6 months the few new players which enter the game (EQ2 isn't that hot anymore so I don't think we are talking thousands here) would find relatively large empty low level zones. I think a lot would quite due to the fact they hardly find any pvp. That leaves us with the few determined players who would level anyway. </p><p>So finally, after months of hard work, they encounter the enemy. I think the majority of those players are in for a surprise, because:</p><ul><li>They are ganked the [I cannot control my vocabulary] out them because the zones they just entered are unlimited and the level (and gear) difference is even larger than in the low zones</li><li>They found out the class they chose is great in PVE but they don't like it in PVP for whatever reason</li></ul><p>Rhan</p><p>Levellocked 70 Ranger</p></blockquote><p>I'm just throwing suggestions and ideas out there.  The system as it is doesn't work right and needs attention (not factoring in the newest update, as I haven't been able to get a whole lot of lowbie-time on). If somebody comes up with an idea that would make sense and be feasible, I commend them on it and hope SOE takes some of the suggestions into consideration.  Some suggestions have been taken into account with the latest update, so all we can hope for is that they continue to read the forums and maybe glean some inspiration here.</p><p>As far as new blood goes, and keeping some interest in the lower-level game, easiest thing would be for them to periodically add a new character slot.  I, for one, wouldn't mind a new slot every 4-6 months. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Rhannnn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh dont be such a drama queen, scouts have been king of pvp since launch and just now are being brought into line with the rest of the classes. Oh ya man I feel so bad for you. </blockquote><p>I'm not Cresent. I'm just stating that you aren't providing any positive feedback on the changes and are merely posting in this thread to stir things up.</p><p>That in itself isn't a very grown up thing to do .. but hey .. maybe you are acting according to your age so I can't blame you.</p><p>You will be happy to know that my 70 ranger is shelved for at least 5 months now and I'm very happy while playing my Illusionist and my Warlock at the moment. So no need for sympathy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Rhan shelved lvl70 Ranger. </p><p>GroeneDraeck</p></blockquote>LOL your not posting anything positive you just one more cry baby ranger. I still see the players with real skill beat others even after the GU only ones whinning are the easy mode ones.

[CresentBlade]

Shadexxx@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>the improved anti lvl lock crescent with even more ironic/ sarcasm and anger. he doesn´t even show his ingame charname prolly because he is too afraid getting ganked ingame ( m/b by low lvl lockers lol ) stay focused on your mission! let the lvl locker burn lol </p><blockquote>So you wanna stop level locking and improve end game pvp</blockquote><p>who said that btw? </p></blockquote>I dont show my in game name anymore because all the crybaby stalkers I use to get. I had one person make 16 different characters to stalk me with, every ignore he would make another one.

[Rhannnn]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rhannnn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh dont be such a drama queen, scouts have been king of pvp since launch and just now are being brought into line with the rest of the classes. Oh ya man I feel so bad for you. </blockquote><p>I'm not Cresent. I'm just stating that you aren't providing any positive feedback on the changes and are merely posting in this thread to stir things up.</p><p>That in itself isn't a very grown up thing to do .. but hey .. maybe you are acting according to your age so I can't blame you.</p><p>You will be happy to know that my 70 ranger is shelved for at least 5 months now and I'm very happy while playing my Illusionist and my Warlock at the moment. So no need for sympathy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Rhan shelved lvl70 Ranger. </p><p>GroeneDraeck</p></blockquote>LOL your not posting anything positive you just one more cry baby ranger. I still see the players with real skill beat others even after the GU only ones whinning are the easy mode ones. </blockquote><p>OK, where are all those 'players with real skill who beat others' ? Name one Ranger Cresent. Just one </p><p>And while you are at it: tell me who he fought. What class. Which conditions ?  Did he get the jump ? What did he do to make it so special that it occured to you that a 'player with real skill' was fighting ? </p><p>What did he/she do to let you go: WOW ...  LOOK AT THAT SKILL !!! </p><p>Rhan </p><p>And again ... I play a Warlock now </p>

[Shangu]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Best way ever to get the lvl locking farm squads to start leveling up is to fix mentoring and allow pvp while mentoring. Imagine the fun of being able to draw your entire guild together, of all levels to kick some stupid faction farmers out of the zone where they are bothering one of your teeny guildies. Or just to go there to kick people out disturbing new players. Let players police themselves instead of coming up with even more rules. A self policed community is far better than once being policed by rules. Rules can always be circumvented. trying to outrun a gang of 20-40 players out to get you gets kind of hard. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <span style="font-size: medium"><span style="color: #cc0000"><b>Not to mention, people mentoring down from 70 will know their class very well, which should make for more interresting fights than the poor people just having rolled a new class and are trying to get the ropes. </b></span></span>So, not only will this allow for people to toss out bothersome farmers, but also, it will bring t2 what the lvl lockers claim they want; danger and skilled opponents. Now, if they cant stand the heat, well, they'll get out of the kitchen. That is, lvl up. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Probably all the way to 70 (or 80, as it will be) </blockquote><p>Very interesting point.  I am sure you are thinking you will mentor down to say......lvl 15 to help your poor little nooblets and have all your lvl 70 combat arts but only scaled down.  I think this is what you really mean by "know thier class".  you will certainly be more skillful with all those extra combat arts.  your idea of skill and knowledge of your class is having more buttons to mash.  how noble and brave of you.</p><p>I'm all for allowing mentoring in pvp.  bring it back the way it was in the begginging and all is fine.  you want to mentor to "protect the nooblets" and drive out those lowly "level locked farmers"?  Here's how you do it:</p><p>you mentor down but must wear lvl appropriate gear jewelry etc.  combat arts above your mentored lvl are simply disabled and NOT just scaled down.  you must respect your AA's to the lvl appropriate cap at the same cost as everyone else who would want to respec.  you will have to reset your hot bars with lvl appropriate combat arts.</p><p>there you!!  mentoring is back.  i am sure you would have no problem with that since you are so knowledgable of your class.</p>