Impatient level 70 PUGs

[Nekomi]

<p>I'm discovering a pattern these days when I am invited to a group, and I would like to know how to improve my performance. </p><p>From levels 1-69, I soloed and joined an occasional pick up group.  Grouping was fun as we would work on quests and gain experience.  When we would end for the night, we would all say what a great group it was and add people to our friends list.  Then I hit 70, and life changed.</p><p>Suddenly the average PUG that I am invited to is very different, because the goal changed.  Now everyone just wants to kill named for AA and master chests.  </p><p>Thse groups seem to fit a pattern: a plate tank, who has done the zone more times than he can remember, rushes through the zone at blinding speed, pulling new mobs just as the others finish off the last group so he can clear a path to the nameds.  If I tell him to slow down, he'll usually chew me out or just ignore me.  (I don't really blame the tanks...it must be boring as hades going through the same zone pulling all the time.)</p><p>Four dps characters follow him, each with their own unique way of gaining aggro or burning though their health at insane rates.  Often one spams the group chat with damage parses so that I can't see what anyone is actually saying (and the worse part is that my name always lingers at the end -- Linamanu 0 0 0).  Another will loot all of the corpses, so that my screen is filled with pop up loot windows.  And another will have a mad love for shinies, and wander off and pull adds because they have no self control.</p><p>In the midst of this mayhem I will try to run to catch up with the tank, get rid of the annoying loot windows, remove the effects crippling the tank, and heal the tank and hopefully the dps folk as well.  If I can't keep the dps folk up, I have to rez them before the tank brings back the next pulls.  If any of that doesn't work perfectly, the response is the same: "%^&*^@ healer doesn't know what she's doing."</p><p>How do you handle this noise?  Honestly, it is driving me batty, and makes me want to play my alts and give up on grouping. </p>

[EtoilePirate]

Well, what you're describing isn't so much a healer problem as a jerk-at-large problem.  You've got some crappy groups there. Someone in a group -- and it may as well be you -- needs to lay down the rules at the start.  "Don't loot corpses during fights" is a big one.  Also, if the DPSers can't manage their aggro then they deserve to dirtnap.  My main is an Assassin and I've leveled my Fury up to T7 as a raid healer, so I know both sides of the fence really well.  If on my stabber I peel the occasional mob that's one thing, but I know I'm risking myself when I go all out, and for the group as a whole to survive it's much more important for the tank to stay up, not me.  Sometimes when I'm grouping with healers I don't know well, I'll fo so far as to tell them, "don't worry about my HP if I'm doing something stupid." That said, as an Assassin and as a Fury both, I love quick-moving groups.  They're much more fun than the overly-cautious tank, so long as they don't push the gorup beyond its actual limits.  And the Fury is a great class for those.  Group with SK tanks -- their lifetaps will free you up a lot for some DPSing and to keep an eye on the rest of the group, so long as you're quick on the cures. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ciarr]

<p>1. create separate windows for group messages and all sort of spam, I tend to have one just for group/raid/guild/tells and 3 more for extras, but if you don't have room for that just shift all spam to 2nd window, ask people to parse to /ooc or to designated channel, takes 2 min to change settings and life is easier</p><p>2. people looting in combat are enoying but managable, I tend to use mouse to close windows and keys to do everything else so these extra windows are hardly ever an issue except when they prevent me from seeing HP bars for a few seconds</p><p>3. just follow the tank... I never feel bad when someone dies beacuse he was away from group</p><p>4. all sorts of life burns are enoying, it cracks me up when someone fires one of these when I am desperatelly healing tank, but well... they need to be top of the parse don't they...</p><p>5. rezing someone before next pull is not a big issue... single target rezzes don't take long and with a few exceptions you don't need to precast heals as a fury so, it has never been an issue for me</p><p>the only cases when I need hold tank is a) I am oop b) I have just died and need to recast all group buffs</p><p>my biggest problem these days is to find semi-descent tank, leveling is faster and faster and I keep seeing level 70 total newbies without a clue how to tank... </p><p>expect people to rush throug instances... at 70 there are very few places worth doing in PUGs and most people have done them to death... especially oob & cov... </p><p>and of course one of the best ways to deal with PUGs is to start your own... that way you invite whoever you want and like to play with avoiding mad-sucidal-DPSers... too lazy or too fast tanks and so on... </p>

[onimarox]

<p>i actully prefer these groups hell if the group / tank isnt pulling fast enough im the first one to start pulling. ya its a drain on mana sometimes but this type of group actully shows your skills as a player. While yes it is nice to make big shiny numbers with nukes or this that or the other you have to understand that not everyone is on the same time scedule as you. some of these people have other things to do // more instances to hit // raids to go to ect... </p><p>If groups like these are to much for you then maybe start forming a group from players u know that play at your speed. guild groups rock for this. </p>

[thebunny]

Linamanu@Oasis wrote: <blockquote><p>Often one spams the group chat with damage parses so that I can't see what anyone is actually saying (and the worse part is that my name always lingers at the end -- Linamanu 0 0 0).</p></blockquote><p>I assume you mean the chat bubbles.  I always turn those off in options, they always get in the way.</p><blockquote><p>Another will loot all of the corpses, so that my screen is filled with pop up loot windows.</p></blockquote><p>When people do that in my groups, I say that if you loot during combat I will roll on everything (including no trade stuff that someone might need) just to get the windows off my screen.  That usually does the trick for me.</p><blockquote><p>And another will have a mad love for shinies, and wander off and pull adds because they have no self control.</p></blockquote><p>Let them die.  I know it seems cruel, but people need to learn not to wander off and get adds just because they want a shiny.</p><blockquote><p>In the midst of this mayhem I will try to run to catch up with the tank, get rid of the annoying loot windows, remove the effects crippling the tank, and heal the tank and hopefully the dps folk as well.  If I can't keep the dps folk up, I have to rez them before the tank brings back the next pulls.</p></blockquote><p>IMO, the primary role as a healer is to keep the tank alive.  If that means letting the DPS die, or waiting a while for things to settle down before you rez an eager DPSer, then so be it.  Now granted I will do what I can to try to keep the DPSer alive, but never ever ever at the expense of the tank.  Groups can survive if a DPS or two die, but if the tank dies, then usually the rest of the group will soon after...</p><blockquote><p>If any of that doesn't work perfectly, the response is the same: "%^&*^@ healer doesn't know what she's doing."</p></blockquote><p>Eh, when things aren't going well, people always blame the healer. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Seriously though, the tank and the healer are the two most important parts to a group.  If you're almost out of power, then the group needs to wait a few seconds for you to regen a little bit before the next pull.  On the flip side, you don't need to be at full power for every fight.  Learn where you're comfortable with power and don't overspend it unless absolutely necessary.</p><p>I personally love fast moving groups, because it keeps things interesting.  However, doing stupid stuff in a fast moving group (like going for shinys or pulling when the healer is OOP) is just asking to die.  For this reason, I keep a lists for people that are good to group with and people that do stupid stuff in groups, and decide what groups to join based on that.</p>

[CodeKill]

Aye, I've seen those grps and I've been part of those grps briefly, cause if they are total noobs I'll leave, and take a ghetto evac if need be. At lvl 70 I still have quests to finish and I want to finish them. I've been in too many grps saying that they will help me get the quests done and then be left holding the bag once they get their crap finished. So unless i know the crew i don't grp, and if I don't know the grp I tell them up front what I expect and what I don't want any part of. Usually this lvls the playing field and everyone gets what they need done ..done.

[Moonshower]

Hmmm.....I guess you have grouped with me......      I like the fast paced craziness of a tank that won't slow down.  I peel a mob off the the tank from nuking and healing like mad.  I love all the little life taps for power and eat them like candy.  Yes Yes I know I have a problem. I even joined a group called the Stealing Shinies Anonymous.  Sometimes pulling an entire room just makes the fight more interesting.      Part of the problem I guess is being 70 so long, and doing the same friggen instances over and over and over and over.   The instances really aren't much of challenge after getting several masters and fabled items.  If I die big deal, I have died over a thousand times...yeah there is always a repair bill.  Mostly I group with guildies, but if I think I can handle a mob I might as well go all out.  I back off a mob that will decimate me, and let the group play there roles.  After clearing a few trash mobs usually I can tell just how much aggro I can handle.  Relax bouncing aggro is fine it a game.  The only penalty for death is a little gold and having to rebuff which as a fury seems to take forever. So rack me up as one of the impatient lvl 70 people. Moonshower lvl 70 Fury Crushbone (started on good old Innothule server)

[Nekomi]

<a href="mailto:Linamanu@Oasis" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Linamanu@Oasis</a> wrote: <blockquote><b><span style="color: #cc0000">My new comments in red</span></b> <p>Four dps characters follow him, each with their own unique way of gaining aggro or burning though their health at insane rates.  Often one spams the group chat with damage parses so that I can't see what anyone is actually saying (and the worse part is that my name always lingers at the end -- Linamanu 0 0 0).  <span style="color: #0033cc"><span style="color: #cc0000"><b>Yes, I create group chat windows, but my point is that when they spam the group chat I can't see what others say in group chat without scrolling up, which is one more thing to take my attention away from my job</b>. </span> </span>Another will loot all of the corpses, so that my screen is filled with pop up loot windows. One person suggested one hand for looting and the other for casting. <span style="color: #cc0000"><b>I need to really redo my hotbars to make that even possible. </b> </span>And another will have a mad love for shinies, and wander off and pull adds because they have no self control.  <span style="color: #cc0000"><b>Some of these guys are basically farmers who are willing to sacrifice the group for their greed.  Honestly, I think these people should be ejected from the group, or SOE needs to make harvests lotto.</b>  </span></p><p>In the midst of this mayhem I will try to run to catch up with the tank, get rid of the annoying loot windows, remove the effects crippling the tank, and heal the tank and hopefully the dps folk as well.  If I can't keep the dps folk up, I have to rez them before the tank brings back the next pulls.  <span style="color: #cc0000"><b>Someone suggested that doesn't take much time.  You should see how fast the pulls come in. lol.</b> If </span>any of that doesn't work perfectly, the response is the same: "%^&*^@ healer doesn't know what she's doing."</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #9966ff">I really appreciate the comments.  I haven't seen this topic discussed on the boards, and I appreciate your feedback. </span></p><p><span style="color: #9966ff">I didn't mean to sound like I'm saying that the group should crawl.  I also like it when the group moves fast.  It just seems that boredom is causing people to get a little too impatient, and that a lot of PUGs are filled with people who are into their own agenda without any concern for the group as a whole.  If the group can't keep up, then it needs to slow down.  Getting a body drop may be useful to someone but not if it hinders healing.  Shinies are nice but not at the expense of pulling adds.  </span></p><p><span style="color: #9966ff">I would talk about this with the groups but I can't type and heal at the same time, and honestly, some of these groups do not stop for a good 10 minutes or more.  I should probably make up some macros to deal with the problem children, e.g.,  "Stop looting during pulls" or "So you're going to our repair bills, right?"  Or maybe for the burners who shout "Incoming burn...healer keep me alive" when the tank is at 20% health because he has three 74^^^s hammering on him, I can have one that says "OK, you're the tank now."</span></p><p><span style="color: #9966ff">I have come up with two rules of thumb for PUGs: I don't want to group with unguilded people (too many don't play nice and don't understand NBG), and I will never again group with someone who says nothing when they are directly spoken to -- they may not speak English (too many are farmers and the rest can't follow directions).</span></p>

[Sabri]

The best thing you can do Lin is start to add names to your friends list of the people who you have a really good time with-sometimes you find a great tank but have mad dpsers who can't keep themselves alive because they pull the aggro-sometimes you have a tank who can't hold the aggro but dpsers who barely 'tickle' the mob.  You'll find your friends list will fill up fairly quickly and you can start to put your own groups together-maybe even get a regular static group to do certain zones like unrest.  I know as a fury it can be really difficult solo healing zones like that-you have to be super fast on your reflexes but I've been able to do it with mine before-it is possible not to wipe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ... with the right group <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Don't neglect the importance of finding other good healers as well, it's nice to know a decent shaman or cleric who can join your group too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dragonz]

<p>I think You will find that its not just confined to fury's I have lvl 63 fury and my main is a 70 templar. I've had the same situation on both. As it's been stated make a list of ppl you find comfortable playing with I've wizzed thro unrest in just over two hrs with sk tanking 2  deaths, and had to use a repair kit with another sk and took 90 mins longer. guess which is on my friends list <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>lot of ppl think dps is king, yes quicker the mob dies the better, but so many players never bother to learn even the rudiments of other classes, they never think which is most efficient way of killing mob.</p><p>I've solo healed unrest witha mezzer fairly easy, and another time sk refused not to throw aoe's  so we even had a spirit of garnel wallop us on 1st skellie pull going into cellar.( plus 4 skel adds )</p><p>playing fast is fine if the group are experienced, we wizz thro oob , cov with one healer, we all done it so many times.</p><p>macro's can help, I have quick group say  before I cast sanc or it get agro, or throw arbitration , lets group know out tank has a few too simple ones like follow me. incoming, and my fav from our mezzer , you spank it you tank it </p><p>don't despair enjoy the game and pick ur groups wisely</p><p>yes waiting for buffs can be a pain after death, but as you have to wait for sickness to wear off whats the rush ( mmc being the exception) I cast 12 buffs after a wipe,but what u want decent buffs or another death</p><p>In eq2 I don't think the excellent proverb keep your friends close, but you enemies closer works <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I use keep your friends close, and the knobheads 2 zones away</p>

[Chaosfairie27]

<p>I'm not lvl 70 yet, but I've had problems with crazy tanks and even crazier group members.  I was once in a group and the tank was so horrible, I didn't know that at the time. and had all the blame placed on me for being a bad healer and was even kicked from the group.  After that I was strictly solo.  I was so afraid to group with anyone else because I thought I was a bad healer.  Thankfully I'm in a great guild now and have some awesome group members and even when I do make mistakes they just laugh at me and call me a noob and help me improve for next time.</p>

[iceriven2]

As  dpser (wizard) and a healer (warden) i think what your asking and implying is more to do with simple play style then actual noobness.  On both my toons i been through almost everything a million times if the tank isn't making me work i do stuff to get them to work.   On my warden i always tell the tank...pull more slacker and if the dpser aren't pulling agro there not dpsing enough.  To me though its about the challenge cuase after the tenth SoS run which was over a year ago the zone got boring so whats the best way to push yourself  then to go fast and kill more.  Even on my wizzie i can dps and not pull agro but if its a zone i know a healer can keep me up i'll draw agro and tank myself if it helps things go faster.  If you want ppl more your playstyle get a a pen and paper and write down those that like the faster pace grp and those that go slower.  Just grp with eh ones that fit your style.

[Gutwren]

This is where you learn if you're just a useless piece of crap known as the Fury, or if you're actually a good player that can keep a good knowledgable group alive.

[Norrsken]

<cite>iceriven2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>As  dpser (wizard) and a healer (warden) i think what your asking and implying is more to do with simple play style then actual noobness.  On both my toons i been through almost everything a million times if the tank isn't making me work i do stuff to get them to work.   On my warden i always tell the tank...pull more slacker and if the dpser aren't pulling agro there not dpsing enough.  To me though its about the challenge cuase after the tenth SoS run which was over a year ago the zone got boring so whats the best way to push yourself  then to go fast and kill more.  Even on my wizzie i can dps and not pull agro but if its a zone i know a healer can keep me up i'll draw agro and tank myself if it helps things go faster.  If you want ppl more your playstyle get a a pen and paper and write down those that like the faster pace grp and those that go slower.  Just grp with eh ones that fit your style. </blockquote>Pen and paper? thats what the friends list is for. wonder if you could rip aggro off a pally with amends on you, and an assassin hatefeeding him. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Prolly. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Goozman]

These are typically the only types of groups worth joining for me. I've been on all 3 sides of the situation (2 70 DPS, 2 70 Tanks, 1 70 healer) and it's just a lot more fun. 15 minute OoB/CoV, 90 minute Unrest. The only issue I could foresee is if the tank who is pulling fast can't hold aggro. Then it would be annoying, but still fun for a good healer.