ENOUGH is ENOUGH! Time to Fix drops and Class Armor!

[Drewx]

<p>Pre-warning...to alot this will look like I'm crying or Q.Q as some say. The truth...I am complaining, and I am furious over this. So I am posting it on the forums so the developers can read it and take notice. They may not act right away but as time goes by thy will see its an issue being brough up alot.</p><p>Ok....its been along time since the devs changed how loot is dropped.</p><p>They its random between the classes in the group...</p><p>Is this true? Yes it is. But should it be adjusted? Yes...very much adjusted.</p><p>For starters, groups on variosu servers are running instances and etc getting the exact same crap OVER AND OVER AND OVER. If it is random than it acutally would have alot more variety. Not just same class crap, same master. Appearently this random system is only random one afew occasions.</p><p>Secondly...Why dear god why...are big named mobs (IE: Ones that give you a lockout, parts of events, and etc) dropping "Treasure Chest" or "Small Chest"??? I'm sorry but I am [Removed for Content]. My group ran Valdoons and got only one ornate chest...considering the mob level and difficulty for GOD sakes let them drop only ornate 75% or exquiste! Its shameful when the Houndmaster drops a Treasue chest........with an Adept I in it. Then to fight The Avatar of Serrellis 4 times...3 times it dropped a smal lchest with a hammer?! The other time a Treasure Chest...with that same hammer and a treasured piece of armor?! That is unacceptable!! Even in Everquest I big mobs always drop a chest or item that is worth the trouble!! Here you have forced players to run instances mindlessly and have created a frustration factor over a fun factor.</p><p>Third...Class Armor. Its been along time since those old AQs at lvl 20. But now...we have awesome class armor that drops from mobs and etc like in other MMOs. *thumbs up* Awesome.</p><p>Whats the problem? The mobs tend to drop the very same piece constantly. It took me 25 runs of Obilisk of Blight to get Kyle Bayle's Dogmatic Spaulters. I'm sorry but that is unacceptable. Other jobs have it even harder! As if that isn't bad enough sometimes...they don't even drop class armor. Unacceptable. If we're forced to undergo instances for them we should know SOMEONE is getting their armor. Also why is it only 1 piece drops in the instance? Unrest has 2 pieces that drop. To the casual player crowd class armor is a gift from the gods, as they have very little time to run raids, and lengthy quests such a MoA and SoD. SO to be able to run instance to get armor that isn't Fable Class gear, but atleast a high grade to be close is wonderful. Many games also do this for them...WoW comes to mind, as well as EQ I off the top of my head.</p><p>So why not have it so the mobs are garanteed to drop a class piece. ALOT of people are so sick of these instances. Its shameful! To run as instance 23 times and see the same gear drop...but even worse to run an instance and get small and treasure chests to be locked out for 18hrs. Thats just overkill. The distribution of the Class Armors need to be adjusted., seeing how the majority are no-trade...I see no problem in making the armor...a little bit easier to obtain!</p><p>The worse factor of this all is the contested mobs dropping Class Armor. This is just too much. Kaladim and the UNFORGIVING Castle Mistmoore are zones filled with fighting, training, and kill stealnig due to this. It is unacceptable and truely unforgivable.</p><p>Kaladim...is a very fun zone, but the zone needs to become an instance...or the area I'll call it a temple, where the Ring Event takes place...needs to be an instance. I see groups constantly stealing the avatar, training those fighting the avatar so they can wipe and thus they steal the kill, arguing, fighting, reporting. Its just horrible...then you add in the drop rate and it's no surprise the armor ends up on the broker for 40-75p.</p><p>This can be fixed by making the Ring event an instance that garantees a class armor drop. Just make it no trade. Currently I have seen Kyle Bayle's Dogmatic Gloves drop twice...both times they got looted by another player...who cannot use them. 1 Player sold it to a guildie...despite the fact I needed them, another time, the player sold them on the broker for 67p. (And they SOLD somehow...possibly someone who bought from plat sellers/spammers?)</p><p>Castle Mistmoore... This instance is very cool...but I'm sure everyone on these boards will tell you how bad the training, and fighting is over that sage. How can this be fixed? Make other named drop the legs as well. EX: Sage drops...fighter gear, and another named drops...scout, and so on. </p><p>Overall... Making "1" mob drop in ANY INSTANCE/AREA drop class specific armor...for 24 classes...is rediculus. Its crazy, the demand is so high it brings out the ugly side in everyone. Killstealing never really happened "as often" as it does now, training...groups getting mobs then running into fighting groups to get aoe dmg to the mobs then Group FDing...wow...its amazing and unnessicary.</p><p>Lastly...because of all this EQ 2 needs the MBG system other games are using. I have no idea how the lotto system works, but it truely seems like the same 2 to 3 people get all the loot, I was in a group for 6 hours and I somehow and have no idea how...left with only the shinies I found. Also...I am tired of seeing people lotto and win class armors that they can't use, so they can sell it or save it for an alt. It is not fair to the individual who is in the group! The Person who worked so hard to GET the armor piece. For a lone healer in CMM to get his/her pants looted by a scout...after healing the party somehow alone all the way to the sage is...just wrong in every way.</p><p>This goes for Fabled armor too, it is not fair to raiding playrs to see the saem loot drop, to have to raid a creature/instance mindless for armor, spells, and etc. Yes they liek raiding but to go into a raid over 10 times and see coercer armor drop all 10 times, add in the unforgiving lockout timer...unacceptable.</p><p>I'm sorry if this post has nothing positive to say but these are concerns of mine....and I'd say the majority of the player base. PLEASE do something about this!</p><p>I don't give a crap either, flame me if you wish, I just want a dev to read this and acknowledge that these issues do need to be reviewed!</p>

[Darian]

"For starters, groups on variosu servers are running instances and etc getting the exact same crap OVER AND OVER AND OVER. If it is random than it acutally would have alot more variety. Not just same class crap, same master. Appearently this random system is only random one afew occasions." I agree completely I've been going to Cov and oob for 2 weeks almost everyday and all I keep seeing is Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogma tic,Dogmatic,Fury armor(not sure of the name)Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Templar armor,Dogmatic. And we've had a necro(me) templar,SK(has the drops already)wizard,fury,Monk. But we keep getting Dogmatic. I feel your pain I'm [Removed for Content] off too. I totally agree with the treasure and small chests too but people will argue that since the lockout is only 12(or is it 16, drawing a blank atm) hours its to be expected. I disagree though the named should be dropping at least an ornate or improve the drop rates, Same thing goes to the Avatar, he should drop the gloves all the time not just some random number. Speaking of Raid drops last night in the LABS, we had 4? animist bracers drop....... sigh. and 2 illusionist hats with no illusionists seems like a waste of time and wasteful drops.

[Lornick]

<cite>Drewx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I'm sorry but I am [Removed for Content]. My group ran Valdoons and got only one ornate chest...<b>considering the mob level and difficulty for GOD sakes let them drop only ornate 75% or exquiste!</b> Its shameful when the Houndmaster drops a Treasue chest........with an Adept I in it. </p></blockquote>Everyone wants good loot... but if everyone has it doesn't it cease to be "good" loot?  That's what increasing the drop rates by the amount you suggest would do.

[Forsaken1]

<cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drewx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I'm sorry but I am [Removed for Content]. My group ran Valdoons and got only one ornate chest...<b>considering the mob level and difficulty for GOD sakes let them drop only ornate 75% or exquiste!</b> Its shameful when the Houndmaster drops a Treasue chest........with an Adept I in it. </p></blockquote>Everyone wants good loot... but if everyone has it doesn't it cease to be "good" loot?  That's what increasing the drop rates by the amount you suggest would do. </blockquote> Just because a larger percent of the player base has an item does'nt mean the stats decrease, so it's still 'good loot'. It simply ceases to be an object for the [Removed for Content] crowd to base thier sense of self worth on because they arent a special minority any longer.

[Miele]

<cite>Drewx wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stuff   </blockquote>While I may agree on loot drops quality, the second issue you list, aka greedy people, can't be solved if all you do are pickup groups. Either you set loot rules in advance or find a guild made of nice people, I'm sure there are plenty of them out there.

[sah]

<p>I'm just curious, what server are you on?  I'm on Guk and I usually see set shoulders on the broker for about 10plat, set gloves for 15-20plat and set legs for 20-30plat.  Which in my opinion is about right considering the relative strength of the set pieces...</p><p>Also, I have never witnessed anyone keep a tradeable item they didn't need that someone else in the group needed.  And I have never had anyone in my guild experience that recently either...Also, with regards to training, I (or anyone in my guild) have never had anyone train us to steal the sage or the avatar...so I'm really curious as to what server your on...</p>

[Rattfa]

Its all swings and roundabouts and streaky RNG. I mean, I have been to OOB more times than I can remember and have never seen the druid armour drop, yet I got my bracers on my first trip to CoV and my hat on my second trip to Unrest. Not that big a deal imo

[Beldin_]

<cite>sahet wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm just curious, what server are you on?  I'm on Guk and I usually see set shoulders on the broker for about 10plat, set gloves for 15-20plat and set legs for 20-30plat.  </blockquote>Hm .. just curious .. are set legs not NO-TRADE on Guk ?

[XAvengerX]

<p>I am not too worried about the Heroic stuff, its more the Epic loot that concerns me. We raided 3 contested epics yesterday as a  12 man raid. The first two, Broog the Banished and Meathooks dropped treasured junk, nothing to write home about at all.</p><p>The third contested in Living Tombs dropped ornate with a LORE NOTRADE piece if armour that nobody in the raid group could use.</p><p>The loot was completely and utterly laughable to be honest.</p><p>I was slightly annoyed about the lack of risk vs reward in that scenario.</p>

[Jal]

Shalla@Valor wrote: <blockquote><cite>sahet wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm just curious, what server are you on?  I'm on Guk and I usually see set shoulders on the broker for about 10plat, set gloves for 15-20plat and set legs for 20-30plat.  </blockquote>Hm .. just curious .. are set legs not NO-TRADE on Guk ? </blockquote>Legendary Legs are tradeable.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>We had a good run the other day...did Hidden Cache (100% wood and small chests) followed by Sanctorium (100% wood and small chests). My toon is in 100% mastercrafted armour and sundry treasured/MC jewellery. The treasured drops from both these zones were somewhere between comedy and laughable. They wouldnt be an upgrade for someone from even the lower tiers.</p><p>We then went and one-grouped Broog the Banished with 1 guy 2 boxing. Treasured again (understandable since he is so easy) but at least he dropped a wand someone in the guild could use. </p><p>At the end of the night we got about 30% of a level, an AP or two and no treasured or adepts usable by the group. I guess DoF is a desert for a reason :p.</p><p>Oh yeah, another funny thing was we spent some time in Sol Ro in LS killing named for AP, one of the junior members of the group was complaining the loot was so poor. He didnt believe me when I said that it was the "end-game" for the original release <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </p><p>Part of me wishes for that simpler time when quest rewards were actually good and finding a rare was like the second coming. </p>

[Beldin_]

Kallarn@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>Legendary Legs are tradeable. </blockquote> Oh really ? I always thought the were NT because i never ever saw any legs for SK,Brigant or Fury and at least for the SK i check the broker 2-3 times a day.

[Guy De Alsace]

My Troub got her Vhalen's leggings from the broker. Maybe the tradeable parts from class sets differ depending on the class?

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>Legs for all classes are tradable. The problem is;</p><p>1) They now are guaranteed to be of the same class of someone in the group. Even people with better leggings will probably still want to complete the legendary set, so they usually go NBG.</p><p>2) Once you have your legendary legs, they're (needlessly) flagged as lore, so there's zero incentive to go back to try and loot more to sell, because what will happen is that either a) they drop for someone else in the group and are claimed NBG or b) your legs drop again, and you have to decline them because they're lore.</p><p>In fact all of CMM loot is flagged lore; this has the effect of making it rather pointless going back once you have the drops you want, and is part of the reason the zone is so empty.</p>

[Kendricke]

<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Legs for all classes are tradable. The problem is;</p><p>1) They now are guaranteed to be of the same class of someone in the group. Even people with better leggings will probably still want to complete the legendary set, so they usually go NBG.</p><p>2) Once you have your legendary legs, they're (needlessly) flagged as lore, so there's zero incentive to go back to try and loot more to sell, because what will happen is that either a) they drop for someone else in the group and are claimed NBG or b) your legs drop again, and you have to decline them because they're lore.</p><p>In fact all of CMM loot is flagged lore; this has the effect of making it rather pointless going back once you have the drops you want, and is part of the reason the zone is so empty.</p></blockquote><p>So wait, the argument here isn't "I'm not seeing upgrades", but rather "I'm not seeing loot I can sell"?</p>

[Siclone]

<p>LOOT AND MASTER DROPS ARE DIFFENTLY MESSED UP IN THIS GAME AND NEED TO BE FIXED!</p>

[Freliant]

<p>To the OP: </p><p>1) Bosses do not have the same drop rate for all items. If its a guaranteed drop of a set item for bosses, then yes, it will be a percentage based on who is in the group makeup. Depending on the frequency of the spawn of a named, the loot will be different. So Meathooks and Broog spawn very quickly, so it doesn't matter how "hard" it is to kill them, they spawn too quickly for any good loot to be justifiable. Give them good loot, and you will see people camp them 24/7.</p><p>2) The hardest of the contested mobs drops the most desireable piece of the class armor. IMO that is acceptable, but you are entitled to your opinion too. For the record, I don't have my class pants yet.</p><p>3) Castle Mistmoore is not an instance, and yes, it is very fun... if you have the right classes and experience. Really tough fights in there. Once the expansion comes out, however, it will be a cakewalk area for level 80's to go and farm the legs for profit. So might be a good idea to revisit this zone and make the final boss area instanced and the legs NT. For the record, I have never seen competition in CMM. The area is so tough, you are lucky to see 6 groups go through it in a 24hour period.</p><p>4) I agree with the need of a new looting system. Something like: Pass, Need, Greed, settings. You do not get the "need" button unless you can use the item that dropped. That way, the classes that can actually use the dropped item can select need, and all the other member of the pickup group, reguardless of how greedy they are, can't win it from you, since they only have the greed roll.</p><p>5) Lastly, the fabled item rant. Yep, I agree with you a bit there. The % drops for fabled on certain mobs is certainly not normalized across all drops. Seems to me like its: 20% -fabled 1, 10% fabled 2-8, or worse. I had to run raid instance for 6 months before we got a drop that a guildy wanted... and the mob only had 4 different fabled!</p>

[Korpo]

<cite>Drewx wrote:</cite><blockquote>For starters, groups on variosu servers are running instances and etc getting the exact same crap OVER AND OVER AND OVER. If it is random than it acutally would have alot more variety. Not just same class crap, same master. Appearently this random system is only random one afew occasions. <span style="color: #990000">You're confusing random and even, and more specifically falling prey to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Gambler's Fallacy</a>. The fact that someone got 30 pairs of guardian legs in a row doesn't mean it's any more or less likely that they'll get guardian legs the next time.</span> <p>My group ran Valdoons and got only one ornate chest...considering the mob level and difficulty for GOD sakes let them drop only ornate 75% or exquiste!</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Considering how quick and easy Valdoon's is, the number of masters is appropriate.</span> </p><p> Even in Everquest I big mobs always drop a chest or item that is worth the trouble!! Here you have forced players to run instances mindlessly and have created a frustration factor over a fun factor.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">I wasn't aware that anyone was forced to do anything in this game. There's a guy on my server that basically uses EQ2 as a chat room, hanging out in 60-69 and chatting with his buddies, and will actually venture out of QH once a week or so. I'll alert him that since he's forced to run instances, and hasn't been, he should watch out.</span></p><p>If we're forced to undergo instances for them we should know SOMEONE is getting their armor. Also why is it only 1 piece drops in the instance? Unrest has 2 pieces that drop.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">See above.</span> </p><p> To the casual player crowd class armor is a gift from the gods...</p><p>So why not have it so the mobs are garanteed to drop a class piece. ALOT of people are so sick of these instances. Its shameful! To run as instance 23 times and see the same gear drop...but even worse to run an instance and get small and treasure chests to be locked out for 18hrs. Thats just overkill.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">So you want to be "garanteed" a gift from the gods? Do you also get angry at Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/Festivus if your presets aren't good enough? As for being sick of instances, those that are sick of them should stop running them.</span> </p><p> The distribution of the Class Armors need to be adjusted., seeing how the majority are no-trade...I see no problem in making the armor...a little bit easier to obtain!</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Things that are easy to obtain aren't as good as things that are difficult to obtain. That's the way the game as been since day one, and (hopefully) that's the way it will continue to be until the day they shut the servers down. </span> </p><p>The worse factor of this all is the contested mobs dropping Class Armor. This is just too much. Kaladim and the UNFORGIVING Castle Mistmoore are zones filled with fighting, training, and kill stealnig due to this. It is unacceptable and truely unforgivable.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">They can't instance the whole game, or it ceases to be a <b>MM</b>ORPG, and becomes Diablo II. If people are disrupting your experience, then report and petition them, that's what the system is there for -- making the kids play nice in the sandbox.</span> </p><p>Kaladim...is a very fun zone, but the zone needs to become an instance...or the area I'll call it a temple, where the Ring Event takes place...needs to be an instance. I see groups constantly stealing the avatar, training those fighting the avatar so they can wipe and thus they steal the kill, arguing, fighting, reporting. </p><p><span style="color: #990000">Mobs in this game cannot be "kill stealed", and groups cannot be trained. If your group isn't actively fighting the mob, <b>then it's not your mob</b>. If someone runs buy with a huge train, they won't agro you unless you attack the group. It's basic mechanics.</span> </p><p>This can be fixed by making the Ring event an instance that garantees a class armor drop. Just make it no trade. Currently I have seen Kyle Bayle's Dogmatic Gloves drop twice...both times they got looted by another player...who cannot use them. 1 Player sold it to a guildie...despite the fact I needed them, another time, the player sold them on the broker for 67p. (And they SOLD somehow...possibly someone who bought from plat sellers/spammers?)</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Sounds like you need to make better decisions about who you group with. No amount of mechanic changes are going to fix your poor choice in group mates.</span> </p><p>Castle Mistmoore... This instance is very cool...but I'm sure everyone on these boards will tell you how bad the training, and fighting is over that sage. How can this be fixed? Make other named drop the legs as well. EX: Sage drops...fighter gear, and another named drops...scout, and so on.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">See above about fighting, kill stealing, etc.</span> </p><p>Overall... Making "1" mob drop in ANY INSTANCE/AREA drop class specific armor...for 24 classes...is rediculus. Its crazy, the demand is so high it brings out the ugly side in everyone. Killstealing never really happened "as often" as it does now, training...groups getting mobs then running into fighting groups to get aoe dmg to the mobs then Group FDing...wow...its amazing and unnessicary.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Having a certain mob with a certain loot table certainly isn't "rediculus", that's the way the game has always been. See above about kill stealing and training, and how you are sorely mistaken on them.</span> </p><p>Lastly...because of all this EQ 2 needs the MBG system other games are using. I have no idea how the lotto system works, but it truely seems like the same 2 to 3 people get all the loot, I was in a group for 6 hours and I somehow and have no idea how...left with only the shinies I found. Also...I am tired of seeing people lotto and win class armors that they can't use, so they can sell it or save it for an alt. It is not fair to the individual who is in the group! The Person who worked so hard to GET the armor piece. For a lone healer in CMM to get his/her pants looted by a scout...after healing the party somehow alone all the way to the sage is...just wrong in every way.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">See above about picking better group mates.</span> </p><p>This goes for Fabled armor too, it is not fair to raiding playrs to see the saem loot drop, to have to raid a creature/instance mindless for armor, spells, and etc. Yes they liek raiding but to go into a raid over 10 times and see coercer armor drop all 10 times, add in the unforgiving lockout timer...unacceptable.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Yes, how dare they make this game random and force you to work for things.</span> </p><p>I don't give a crap either, flame me if you wish, I just want a dev to read this and acknowledge that these issues do need to be reviewed!</p></blockquote>I had to run your post through my English to Gibberish translator to understand half of it. Maybe you should have spent more time hitting the books in 5th grade instead of complaining about people "stealing" "your" playground ball, and how you wanted your own playground.

[Raveller]

<p>When you kill a mob, you call a bit of code that checks the class and level of each group/raid member as well as all of the alts for each group/raid member, this bit of code then builds a matrix for the loot code to check to ensure that any loot that drops can not be used by anyone. Failing that, only loot that everyone already has will be dropped. It's genious.</p><p>I thought everyone knew about this.</p>

[therodge]

<p>let me state your concerns are valid but your ignorance stops them from being heard.</p><p>1. i got every peice of class armor (paladin) in the first 5 days of EoF minus helm and legs helm not to long after unrest. its random and can  be nice sometimes.</p><p>2. let me explain something to you if you  dont raid and you want this change you are a complete idiot, icase you dont know their is maybe 1 or 2 upgrades if you are lucky to class armor once your done with the set if your lucky and those go 60p+ i am in the best gear in game prior to raiding and i dont raid, guess what that means, i have NOTHING to do until 80 and am bored to no end. scratch that the thick leather apron would be a good backup but thats it.</p><p>3. agreed lotto is screwed up.</p><p>4. yes raids get shafted but very few named mobs arnt guarenteed fabled.</p><p>5 oh the valdoon comment kiled me, at 68 in xegonight with other 68s in xegonight we ran that zone in under 30 min what difficulty if your having difficulty please quit the paladin class (you are a useless member and making us look bad) roll a guardian or zerker you will find it easier to take the uber damage those mobs give out.</p><p> 6. oh in everquest named dropped crap 90% of the timke only usable loot was off raid mobs or else you sucked and shouldent play eq1 (tiny bit bitter but was for most part true.)</p>

[EvilIguana9]

<cite>Raveller wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>When you kill a mob, you call a bit of code that checks the class and level of each group/raid member as well as all of the alts for each group/raid member, this bit of code then builds a matrix for the loot code to check to ensure that any loot that drops can not be used by anyone. Failing that, only loot that everyone already has will be dropped. It's genious.</p><p>I thought everyone knew about this.</p></blockquote> Hmm, sounds about right. I think I'll put that in my sig. 

[Drewx]

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Drewx wrote:</cite><blockquote>For starters, groups on variosu servers are running instances and etc getting the exact same crap OVER AND OVER AND OVER. If it is random than it acutally would have alot more variety. Not just same class crap, same master. Appearently this random system is only random one afew occasions. <span style="color: #990000">You're confusing random and even, and more specifically falling prey to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Gambler's Fallacy</a>. The fact that someone got 30 pairs of guardian legs in a row doesn't mean it's any more or less likely that they'll get guardian legs the next time.</span> <p>My group ran Valdoons and got only one ornate chest...considering the mob level and difficulty for GOD sakes let them drop only ornate 75% or exquiste!</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Considering how quick and easy Valdoon's is, the number of masters is appropriate.</span> </p><p>Even in Everquest I big mobs always drop a chest or item that is worth the trouble!! Here you have forced players to run instances mindlessly and have created a frustration factor over a fun factor.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">I wasn't aware that anyone was forced to do anything in this game. There's a guy on my server that basically uses EQ2 as a chat room, hanging out in 60-69 and chatting with his buddies, and will actually venture out of QH once a week or so. I'll alert him that since he's forced to run instances, and hasn't been, he should watch out.</span></p><p>If we're forced to undergo instances for them we should know SOMEONE is getting their armor. Also why is it only 1 piece drops in the instance? Unrest has 2 pieces that drop.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">See above.</span> </p><p>To the casual player crowd class armor is a gift from the gods...</p><p>So why not have it so the mobs are garanteed to drop a class piece. ALOT of people are so sick of these instances. Its shameful! To run as instance 23 times and see the same gear drop...but even worse to run an instance and get small and treasure chests to be locked out for 18hrs. Thats just overkill.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">So you want to be "garanteed" a gift from the gods? Do you also get angry at Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa/Festivus if your presets aren't good enough? As for being sick of instances, those that are sick of them should stop running them.</span> </p><p>The distribution of the Class Armors need to be adjusted., seeing how the majority are no-trade...I see no problem in making the armor...a little bit easier to obtain!</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Things that are easy to obtain aren't as good as things that are difficult to obtain. That's the way the game as been since day one, and (hopefully) that's the way it will continue to be until the day they shut the servers down. </span> </p><p>The worse factor of this all is the contested mobs dropping Class Armor. This is just too much. Kaladim and the UNFORGIVING Castle Mistmoore are zones filled with fighting, training, and kill stealnig due to this. It is unacceptable and truely unforgivable.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">They can't instance the whole game, or it ceases to be a <b>MM</b>ORPG, and becomes Diablo II. If people are disrupting your experience, then report and petition them, that's what the system is there for -- making the kids play nice in the sandbox.</span> </p><p>Kaladim...is a very fun zone, but the zone needs to become an instance...or the area I'll call it a temple, where the Ring Event takes place...needs to be an instance. I see groups constantly stealing the avatar, training those fighting the avatar so they can wipe and thus they steal the kill, arguing, fighting, reporting. </p><p><span style="color: #990000">Mobs in this game cannot be "kill stealed", and groups cannot be trained. If your group isn't actively fighting the mob, <b>then it's not your mob</b>. If someone runs buy with a huge train, they won't agro you unless you attack the group. It's basic mechanics.</span> </p><p>This can be fixed by making the Ring event an instance that garantees a class armor drop. Just make it no trade. Currently I have seen Kyle Bayle's Dogmatic Gloves drop twice...both times they got looted by another player...who cannot use them. 1 Player sold it to a guildie...despite the fact I needed them, another time, the player sold them on the broker for 67p. (And they SOLD somehow...possibly someone who bought from plat sellers/spammers?)</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Sounds like you need to make better decisions about who you group with. No amount of mechanic changes are going to fix your poor choice in group mates.</span> </p><p>Castle Mistmoore... This instance is very cool...but I'm sure everyone on these boards will tell you how bad the training, and fighting is over that sage. How can this be fixed? Make other named drop the legs as well. EX: Sage drops...fighter gear, and another named drops...scout, and so on.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">See above about fighting, kill stealing, etc.</span> </p><p>Overall... Making "1" mob drop in ANY INSTANCE/AREA drop class specific armor...for 24 classes...is rediculus. Its crazy, the demand is so high it brings out the ugly side in everyone. Killstealing never really happened "as often" as it does now, training...groups getting mobs then running into fighting groups to get aoe dmg to the mobs then Group FDing...wow...its amazing and unnessicary.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Having a certain mob with a certain loot table certainly isn't "rediculus", that's the way the game has always been. See above about kill stealing and training, and how you are sorely mistaken on them.</span> </p><p>Lastly...because of all this EQ 2 needs the MBG system other games are using. I have no idea how the lotto system works, but it truely seems like the same 2 to 3 people get all the loot, I was in a group for 6 hours and I somehow and have no idea how...left with only the shinies I found. Also...I am tired of seeing people lotto and win class armors that they can't use, so they can sell it or save it for an alt. It is not fair to the individual who is in the group! The Person who worked so hard to GET the armor piece. For a lone healer in CMM to get his/her pants looted by a scout...after healing the party somehow alone all the way to the sage is...just wrong in every way.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">See above about picking better group mates.</span> </p><p>This goes for Fabled armor too, it is not fair to raiding playrs to see the saem loot drop, to have to raid a creature/instance mindless for armor, spells, and etc. Yes they liek raiding but to go into a raid over 10 times and see coercer armor drop all 10 times, add in the unforgiving lockout timer...unacceptable.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Yes, how dare they make this game random and force you to work for things.</span> </p><p>I don't give a crap either, flame me if you wish, I just want a dev to read this and acknowledge that these issues do need to be reviewed!</p></blockquote>I had to run your post through my English to Gibberish translator to understand half of it. Maybe you should have spent more time hitting the books in 5th grade instead of complaining about people "stealing" "your" playground ball, and how you wanted your own playground. </blockquote><p>*Applauds* You feel better? I'm happy to see your "English to Gibberish" translator works. However you need to invest in some glasses cause apparently you missed the whole: "I don't give a crap either, flame me if you wish, I just want a dev to read this and acknowledge that these issues do need to be reviewed!"</p><p>Statement. The factor I replied to it may give the impression I care but actually you raised some valid points. __________________________________________________ ____________________________________</p><p>In response...to what I feel is worth repling to that bonfire...I mean post... Eh training does indeed exist, if a group is in combat and another runs mobs by and the group that is currently in combat is casting AOEs then they do indeed smack the train and in the end get the attention of the train. __________________________________________________ ____________________________________</p><p>Also...correct me if I am wrong but this is the point you were trying to get across?: Lets say my group is clearing out the ratonga in the 3rd chamber so we can make the Avatar Attackable. [Yes I'm saying Ratonga on purpose because I'm sure if I miss spell the Avatar's name and/or the ratonga's names you're trasnlator will have a [Removed for Content] fit.] The moment the last ratonga dies another group who saw us clearing the mobs and chose to smuggle up and hide UNDER the avatar laying in wait for us to make him attackable has every right in the world to attack him because we didn't clear the ratonga and instantly teleport to the Avatar in time to claim him as our own?</p><p>I'm guessing you are one someone who must like to steal mobs because most players would cry "foul" for such an act, but you seem to say it's perfectly alright. *nods* I see. __________________________________________________ ____________________________________ Picking better group mates? I guess my ability to see into the future needs work, I had no idea that upon killing _____ that one of my groupmates would decide to roll on it despite our group loot rule being NBG. You're absolutely right. Maybe they can add a dispute function so when someone rolls on an item I need I can dispute it, duel them. Kill them and loot my item off them? Cause currently, if someone chooses to roll last minute there isn't a [Removed for Content] thing you can do about it. Unless you can see into the future I doubt you can tell who is a good groupmate and who isn't. __________________________________________________ ___________________________________</p><p>In response to a few others... Ok I agree that having an Ornate Chest drop everytime would be overkill. But the drop rates DO still need to be adjusted. True some instances can be run very fast mainly: Crypt of Valdoon. I was just furious at the time of the original post. Perhaps fast instances like Crypt of Valdoon could get their timer reduced? A run per day takes out the fun of instances, I dare mention the game, but hell in WoW you can run instances all you like some of them are really [Removed for Content] fun, personally I LIKE Crypt of Valdoon, I just hate the loot drop rate. __________________________________________________ ____________________________________</p><p>I cannot recall the name of the poster, but the poster who had mentioned a NBG looting system, that would be wonderful! I liked that idea! Only the classes that can use it can select NEED...brilliant!</p><p>Then again...by making Class Armor 100% No-Trade would stop ninja looters...but I feel a NBG system would solve a large chunk of things. __________________________________________________ ____________________________________ [For those wondering what the lines are for...as some people need translators to read things, I figured seperating my statements with lines maybe easier on the eyes of some...] __________________________________________________ ____________________________________</p><p>Obviously no one is FORCED to run instances, but really how else does a player get new gear, as the majority of items seem to be LORE and No-Trade? How else does a player get gear that is better than Mastercrafted? Sure there are a few Treasured peices here and there, but honestly...aside from my class armor what beats a set of Mastercraft Xegonite? Fable gear...yeah but those also drop in instances. __________________________________________________ ____________________________________</p><p>In the end...if you wish to keep your character up to date and have some armor/gear/etc to be proud of...one must run instances. I'm fine with that, but running Crypt of Valdoon __ times only to see the exact same loot drop starts to take away from the game's fun factor. __________________________________________________ ____________________________________ All that is truely needed is a NBG looting system, and a drop rate revision. I admit my original statments were indeed overdone and fueled by anger and frustration. But the majority cannto deny that a drop rate revision is a must.</p>

[roces9]

Posting really, really long posts with lots _____________________________________ of line breaks doesn't make _____________________________________ your spelling, grammer or argument any stronger. If "flaming" is systematically taking apart your feeble arguement with good logic and actual facts, the Drewx is a dirty cry baby who flamed you. Honostly If I want instant gratification by having the max stats and best armor in a game after 5 minutes of play, I play a console game. If I want to put in a lot of time, effort and "wasted" runs of instances, then I play EQ2. Some things are broken with this game, but only getting one aweseomzxhaxerz drop in an instance is not one of the things the Devs need to change. PS: Diablo II has no subscription fee and would probably be a lot more fun for you to play.

[Korpo]

<cite>Drewx wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> You feel better? I'm happy to see your "English to Gibberish" translator works. However you need to invest in some glasses <span style="color: #00cc00">cause </span>apparently you missed the whole: "I don't give a crap either, flame me if you wish, I just want a dev to read this and acknowledge that these issues do need to be reviewed!"</p><span style="color: #990000">The issues are in your head, not in the game. The devs are not your mommy, and they are not here to make everyone play the way you want them to play.</span> <p>In response...to what I feel is worth <span style="color: #00cc00">repling</span> to that bonfire...I mean post... <span style="color: #009900"> Eh</span> training does indeed exist, if a group is in combat and another runs mobs by and the group that is currently in combat is casting AOEs then they do indeed smack the train and in the end get the attention of the train.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Then you need to stop using blue AOEs when people are trying to train you. Using a blue AOE when there are mobs around you will of course pull the mobs off, the intent of blue AOEs is to pull everything within a given area. That you don't know to not use blue AOEs when there are other mobs around is your fault, not a broken mechanic.</span> </p><p>Also...correct me if I am wrong but this is the point you were trying to get across?: <span style="color: #00cc00"> Lets</span> say my group is clearing out the ratonga in the 3rd chamber so we can make the Avatar <span style="color: #00cc00">Attackable</span>. [Yes I'm saying Ratonga on purpose because I'm sure if I <span style="color: #00cc00">miss spell</span> the Avatar's name and/or the <span style="color: #00cc00">ratonga's names</span> <span style="color: #00cc00">you're trasnlator</span> will have a [Removed for Content] fit.] The moment the last ratonga dies another group who saw us clearing the mobs and chose to smuggle up and hide UNDER the avatar <span style="color: #00cc00">laying</span> in wait for us to make him attackable has every right in the world to attack him because we didn't clear the ratonga and instantly teleport to the Avatar in time to claim him as our own?</p><p><span style="color: #990000">If they pull the mob before you do, they "own" the mob. It doesn't matter if you had to do 50 ring events to make him attackable, they attacked it first. Again, you need to fit into the rules of the game, not complain about how the rules haven't been changed to fit your idea of what they should be.</span> </p><p>I'm guessing you are <span style="color: #00cc00">one someone</span> who must like to steal mobs because most players would cry "foul" for such an act, but you seem to say it's perfectly alright. *nods* I see.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">I don't steal mobs because I don't need the trash legendary they drop. However, those people are playing within the rules of the game, and you are the one complaining that you don't like the rules.</span> </p><p>Picking better group mates? I guess my ability to see into the future needs work, I had no idea that upon killing _____ that one of my groupmates would decide to roll on it despite our group loot rule being NBG. You're absolutely right. </p><p><span style="color: #990000">Unless you picked the person up mere seconds before you pulled the named, you should have an idea what kind of person they are before you kill the named, and whether they should be along for the named kill.</span> </p><p><span style="color: #00cc00"> Cause</span> currently, if someone chooses to roll last minute there isn't a [I cannot control my vocabulary] thing you can do about it. Unless you can see into the future I doubt you can tell who is a good groupmate and who isn't.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Of course I can tell good group mates from bad group mates before crucial rolls. People don't change, so look at their past behavior. Did they act like an arsehole? Did they loot things they didn't need? Were they iffy about giving things up?</span> </p><p>[For those wondering what the lines are for...as some people need translators to read things, I figured <span style="color: #00cc00">seperating</span> my statements with lines maybe easier on the eyes of some...] </p><p><span style="color: #990000">We need translators because you use words that aren't English, or you use English words incorrectly. A few of them are highlighted in green here.</span> </p><p>Obviously no one is FORCED to run instances, but really how else does a player get new gear, as the majority of items seem to be LORE and No-Trade? How else does a player get gear that is better than Mastercrafted? Sure there are a few Treasured <span style="color: #00cc00">peices</span> here and there, but honestly...aside from my class armor what beats a set of Mastercraft Xegonite? <span style="color: #00cc00">Fable</span> gear...yeah but those also drop in instances.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">So you <u>want</u> fancy gear, but you <u>don't want</u> to play by the rules to get it. Nobody is forcing you to have fancy gear, nobody is forcing you to wear anything, nobody is forcing you to leave town if you don't want. If you don't want to put in the effort to get something, you don't deserve to get it. The effort required to get this gear is no secret, and your demand to make it easier to get just smacks of crying to mommy because you didn't get a lollipop.</span> </p><p>In the end...if you wish to keep your character up to date and have some armor/gear/etc to be proud of...one must run instances. I'm fine with that, but running Crypt of Valdoon __ times only to see the exact same loot drop starts to take away from the game's fun factor.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Conversely, guaranteeing that you get a complete set of armor after a few runs through the instances also takes away from the game's fun.</span> </p><p>All that is <span style="color: #00cc00">truely</span> needed is a NBG looting system, and a drop rate revision. I admit my original <span style="color: #00cc00">statments</span> were indeed overdone and fueled by anger and frustration. But the majority <span style="color: #00cc00">cannto</span> deny that a drop rate revision is a must.</p><p><span style="color: #990000">Apparently the majority does deny this.</span> </p></blockquote>

[Nainitsuj]

<p>I thought this was a serious post on the broken loot table.  Tuns out it's someone complaining about legendary sets.</p><p>Anyways, our guild has started taking bets on what Sariah will drop each week in EH.  Will it be the crappy blade, the Brigand boots or the Swash boots?  It's almost always Brig boots, unless the brig isn't in the raid.  Then it's Swash boots.  If neither is in the raid, crappy blade.  One time, it dropped Troub boots.  </p><p>Free Loot is the same way.  Will he drop Brig hat, Swash hat or Shaman hat?  It's super exciting.  Hope something serious is done or looked in to.</p>

[Kieran]

While I don't agree with most parts of your post, I would like to see a well thought Need-Greed-Pass system similar to that in Vanguard (not WoW).

[Drewx]

<cite>Nainitsuj wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I thought this was a serious post on the broken loot table.  Tuns out it's someone complaining about legendary sets.</p><p>Anyways, our guild has started taking bets on what Sariah will drop each week in EH.  Will it be the crappy blade, the Brigand boots or the Swash boots?  It's almost always Brig boots, unless the brig isn't in the raid.  Then it's Swash boots.  If neither is in the raid, crappy blade.  One time, it dropped Troub boots.  </p><p>Free Loot is the same way.  Will he drop Brig hat, Swash hat or Shaman hat?  It's super exciting.  Hope something serious is done or looked in to.</p></blockquote><p> Actually it is a serious post.</p><p>While I used the Legendary Sets as my main example...(a mistake on my part as it was a nail in my coffin) my goal was to get the loot table, drop rates, and etc addressed. I'm tired of crap loot, I'm tired of running instances to see the exact same loot drop every run, and the way loot is distributed seems broken in my view.</p><p>I'm hoping a NBG loot system gets implemented along with a drop rate fix/revamp.</p><p>I understand SOE doesn't want everynoe walking around in Legendary Armor Sets in one day, and that they want us to run the instances. But I'm keeping count of how many runs I've made and what the loot has been.</p><p>So far I've fun Crypt of Valdoon 26 times: 23 times he dropped the class armor forearm for Templar/Inquisitor. 1 time he dropped the Dirge/Troubador armor. 2 times he dropped Wizard/Warlock Armor.</p><p>The houndmaster has dropped Legendary pants(the name eludes me but I believe it's leggings of the houndmaster) 2 times. The other 21 runs we've gotten a treasure chest with an adept I and some treasured in it. I have never seen this rumored earring the houndmaster is said to drop... I forget the name of the vampire that brings the statues to life, but he's the only giving one as he has dropped a master 7 times! The other runs he's given us his fang alongside a chest with an earring in it.</p><p>IMO...something is wrong with that drop rate. I can handle running thigs knowing I'll eventually get good loot, but I'm so tired of seeing the saem earring, the same adept, the same class armor, it's irritating.</p><p>As for the contested mobs for class armor, I'm tired of the hassle of fighting and reporting other players over them. This issue is nearly exclusive to Kaladim, I assume I just have bad luck. Although I know alot of people who will say the Avatar loot drop rate needs fixing, cause we get a chest with a hammer in it about 95% of the time. No wonder Class Gloves sell for 65p on AB.</p><p>My issue is mainly that drop rates are far to low or maybe they are whacked out... I'm sorry if I come off as crying to some people on the forums. I'm just tired of running the instances endlessly, and then predicting with 99% accuracy what is in the chest that has dropped.</p><p>*shrugs* However from what I've heard these drop rates are NOTHING compared to raid drop rates. If Raids can predict whats in the chest...and be dead on then there is a problem. I can understand wanting to work hard for your gear but...is this current system acceptable?</p><p>And I will openly admit I was q.qing alittle. I could defend myself and restate that my class gear has been ninja looted in front of me many times which has added to my frustration. I should have posted after I had calmed down as now my post has been marked null and void. *shrugs*</p>

[Ameryth]

<p>Why do I keep seeing a desire for a NBG system to be implemented?  I haven't played Vanguard so maybe someone can help explain how that system is different, but in WoW its all a matter of clicking a button.</p><p>What is to stop someone from clicking the "Need" button instead of the "Greed" button?  If everyone in the group clicks "need" then its the same as a lotto.</p><p>Players at some point need to be responsible.  In EQ1 everytime I joined a group the loot rules were explained and either agreed to or not.  If people did not abide by them then they were kicked out.  I remember stuff going on like 'Loot til you get FS(fine steel) then it goes to the next person alphabetically'  I am not saying that this exact system will work in eq2, but why is it necessary to have Sony watchdog how other players loot when in a group?</p>

[Targ]

<cite>Invispuppy521 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Why do I keep seeing a desire for a NBG system to be implemented?  I haven't played Vanguard so maybe someone can help explain how that system is different, but in WoW its all a matter of clicking a button.</p><p>What is to stop someone from clicking the "Need" button instead of the "Greed" button?  If everyone in the group clicks "need" then its the same as a lotto.</p></blockquote><p>In answer to your question the "need" button is greyed out and you can't press it if you can't use the item.</p><p>I like it this idea myself. I have seen a few times when well meaning group mates in a rush rolled on items they could not use. </p>

[Tomanak]

<cite>Targ wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>In answer to your question the "need" button is greyed out and you can't press it if you can't use the item.</p><p>I like it this idea myself. I have seen a few times when well meaning group mates in a rush rolled on items they could not use. </p></blockquote><p>I can see if I am unable to use an item, ie It is archtype specific...but other than that the mechanics wouldnt be able to determine if an item is an upgrade or not as the stats desired are purely subjective. I may want (read need) a piece that has lower stats but higher resists..or be willing to sacrifice Mit for better stats, etc. </p><p>Also how does that work if the item is archtype specific and no-one in the group is a member of one of the accepted classes? Can no one then loot it? </p><p>While I think there needs to be a greater variety of loot drops (ie class armor can drop in ALL T7 EoF zones) to alleviate the endless running of the same instances, there are IMO too many potential pitfalls with attempting to regulate loot drops any more than they are now. Personally Id like to know that if all I needed, for example,  was the class chest piece that endelessly running Unrest wasnt my only option, but I could 'mix it up' and perhaps get lucky in MC. </p>

[Image_Vain]

Every mob needs to drop Fabled. Problem solved.

[jikken]

to me every monster that i kill feels like a waste of time in any other rpg killing mosters is fun becouse theres a chance i can find rare usefull stuff (and with usefull i dont mean some stupid thing i can use in tradeskill) in this game maybe 95 pct of the mosters drop crap

[Ealthina]

Paznos@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>"For starters, groups on variosu servers are running instances and etc getting the exact same crap OVER AND OVER AND OVER. If it is random than it acutally would have alot more variety. Not just same class crap, same master. Appearently this random system is only random one afew occasions." I agree completely I've been going to Cov and oob for 2 weeks almost everyday and all I keep seeing is Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogma tic,Dogmatic,Fury armor(not sure of the name)Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Templar armor,Dogmatic. And we've had a necro(me) templar,SK(has the drops already)wizard,fury,Monk. But we keep getting Dogmatic. I feel your pain I'm [Removed for Content] off too. I totally agree with the treasure and small chests too but people will argue that since the lockout is only 12(or is it 16, drawing a blank atm) hours its to be expected. I disagree though the named should be dropping at least an ornate or improve the drop rates, Same thing goes to the Avatar, he should drop the gloves all the time not just some random number. Speaking of Raid drops last night in the LABS, we had 4? animist bracers drop....... sigh. and 2 illusionist hats with no illusionists seems like a waste of time and wasteful drops. Hey Paz..  Guess what dropped for BOTH Spellbound groups that went in tonight?  Wait for it......................Wait for it!!! DOGMATIC!  lol! </blockquote>

[Darian]

<cite>Ealthina wrote:</cite><blockquote>Paznos@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote>"For starters, groups on variosu servers are running instances and etc getting the exact same crap OVER AND OVER AND OVER. If it is random than it acutally would have alot more variety. Not just same class crap, same master. Appearently this random system is only random one afew occasions." I agree completely I've been going to Cov and oob for 2 weeks almost everyday and all I keep seeing is Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Dogma tic,Dogmatic,Fury armor(not sure of the name)Dogmatic,Dogmatic,Templar armor,Dogmatic. And we've had a necro(me) templar,SK(has the drops already)wizard,fury,Monk. But we keep getting Dogmatic. I feel your pain I'm [Removed for Content] off too. I totally agree with the treasure and small chests too but people will argue that since the lockout is only 12(or is it 16, drawing a blank atm) hours its to be expected. I disagree though the named should be dropping at least an ornate or improve the drop rates, Same thing goes to the Avatar, he should drop the gloves all the time not just some random number. Speaking of Raid drops last night in the LABS, we had 4? animist bracers drop....... sigh. and 2 illusionist hats with no illusionists seems like a waste of time and wasteful drops. Hey Paz..  Guess what dropped for BOTH Spellbound groups that went in tonight?  Wait for it......................Wait for it!!! DOGMATIC!  lol! </blockquote> </blockquote>OMG See!!! this is what I'm talking about [Removed for Content]

[Targ]

Sugota@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote>I can see if I am unable to use an item, ie It is archtype specific...but other than that the mechanics wouldnt be able to determine if an item is an upgrade or not as the stats desired are purely subjective. I may want (read need) a piece that has lower stats but higher resists..or be willing to sacrifice Mit for better stats, etc.  </blockquote><p>If you want the Item then press the "Need" button. If the button is not greyed out it means you can use the item. You have to decide if it is an upgrade for you. Then after all selection/timeouts are in there is a lotto between the "Need" selecting players.</p><p>Sugota@Butcherblock wrote: </p><blockquote>Also how does that work if the item is archtype specific and no-one in the group is a member of one of the accepted classes? Can no one then loot it?</blockquote><p>Everyone that wants the item for an alt or to sell on the broker, presses the "Greed" button. If no one selects "Need" then there is a lotto between the "Greed" selecting players. You don't have to discuss it with everyone in the group to find out if the one or two class that can use the item wants it or not. And a person that can't use the item can can not get it, if someone that can use it selects "Need".</p><p>Sugota@Butcherblock wrote: </p><blockquote>While I think there needs to be a greater variety of loot drops (ie class armor can drop in ALL T7 EoF zones) to alleviate the endless running of the same instances, there are IMO too many potential pitfalls with attempting to regulate loot drops any more than they are now. Personally Id like to know that if all I needed, for example,  was the class chest piece that endelessly running Unrest wasnt my only option, but I could 'mix it up' and perhaps get lucky in MC. </blockquote><p>I understand your position but I disagreee. I know running the same instance for the last piece is a drag. But I really don't want to run Unrest and have my class come up in the drop and get the the gloves I already have. Also MC and Unreset are alot harder then the other EoF zones which makes completing the set a real acomplishment. People will just run the easy zones over and over to complet the set. I like it the way it is. I know right where to go to get the piece I need, I have to run the same zone untill I get it but when my turn comes I will get the piece I need.</p><p>BTW I have not complete my armour set yet, but I am working on it.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>jikken wrote:</cite><blockquote>to me every monster that i kill feels like a waste of time in any other rpg killing mosters is fun becouse theres a chance i can find rare usefull stuff (and with usefull i dont mean some stupid thing i can use in tradeskill) in this game maybe 95 pct of the mosters drop crap </blockquote>Every mob in the game that drops anything has a low chance of dropping masters. A ver ver very low chance, but still.

[roces9]

Ulvhamne@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>jikken wrote:</cite><blockquote>to me every monster that i kill feels like a waste of time in any other rpg killing mosters is fun becouse theres a chance i can find rare usefull stuff (and with usefull i dont mean some stupid thing i can use in tradeskill) in this game maybe 95 pct of the mosters drop crap </blockquote>Every mob in the game that drops anything has a low chance of dropping masters. A ver ver very low chance, but still. </blockquote> In my guild (myself included) in the past 3 months I have seen 3-4 masters drop off of solo trash in overland zones. As silly as that is, IMO that .000001% chance of getting some ubah lewtz off of crap mobs adds a little bit of spice to the game.

[jikken]

what would it hurt if there r rare to very rare items usable in all lvls findable in any mosters what makes items rare is just how often they make it drop..... maybe items that upgrade armor and weapons that makes them a little shiny and cool stuff like that so many things u could use to spice it up i think it would have a overall positive change in the game much more zones get farmed,people who like farm have fun finding stuff ,pkers killing farmers have more fun

[Etchii]

<p>the random chance master chests always drop common master spells</p><p>never gear</p><p>ever</p>

[Ealthina]

I actually don't mind how hard it is to get each piece.  I'm fine with that.  I just wish the algorithm would take into account who already has that set piece.  I swear if I see dogmatic one more time I'm going to fire my SK tank.  Oh, and Kaladim ring dropped a big fat nothing to just now.

[Darian]

<cite>Ealthina wrote:</cite><blockquote>I actually don't mind how hard it is to get each piece.  I'm fine with that.  I just wish the algorithm would take into account who already has that set piece.  I swear if I see dogmatic one more time I'm going to fire my SK tank.  Oh, and Kaladim ring dropped a big fat nothing to just now. </blockquote> I agree, if someone in the group (SK) already has that piece it shouldn't drop unless theres another SK in the group, I don't mind how hard it is to get each piece but imo its a waste of time to keep doing the instances if the same piece keeps dropping and the SK or whichever class already has that piece. And the Fact that the Kaladim ring event named doesn't always drop the gloves is stupid, Then again if it did it would just be borked like the other places and drop something the person already has.

[Obviousman]

<p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: andale mono,times">As I've came to see the issue about the random loot table, I've picked up across a few things:</span></p><p>"You're confusing random and even, and more specifically falling prey to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Gambler's Fallacy</a>. The fact that someone got 30 pairs of guardian legs in a row doesn't mean it's any more or less likely that they'll get guardian legs the next time."</p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: andale mono,times">While what you're saying is true, people are not going to keep spending their time in a zone if they feel they're going to get the same thing over and over. Yes, the odds are exactly the same each time, but if you put your hard-earned time/money into something and lose time and time again, I doubt you will continue to put your money in for much longer.</span> </p><p>"Picking better group mates? I guess my ability to see into the future needs work, I had no idea that upon killing _____ that one of my groupmates would decide to roll on it despite our group loot rule being NBG. You're absolutely right. </p><p>Unless you picked the person up mere seconds before you pulled the named, you should have an idea what kind of person they are before you kill the named, and whether they should be along for the named kill."</p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: andale mono,times">It is simply unreasonable to take the time to ensure that everyone in the group will follow NBG policies before pulling a named encounter and booting anyone you think will roll for something you shouldn't. However, the devs cannot govern common courtesy: If another member takes something you need, that's just tough luck for you.</span></p><p>"If they pull the mob before you do, they "own" the mob. It doesn't matter if you had to do 50 ring events to make him attackable, they attacked it first. Again, you need to fit into the rules of the game, not complain about how the rules haven't been changed to fit your idea of what they should be."</p><p><span style="font-size: x-small; font-family: andale mono,times">Again, this is common courtesy. If people spend the time to complete the ring event and spawn the named encounter, they should ahve the right to fight the named encounter. The supposed "kill stealers" aren't breaking any legal policies, but it is just plain rude and inconsiderate.</span></p><span style="font-family: Times"><span style="font-size: x-small"><p><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva">"In the end...if you wish to keep your character up to date and have some armor/gear/etc to be proud of...one must run instances. I'm fine with that, but running Crypt of Valdoon __ times only to see the exact same loot drop starts to take away from the game's fun factor.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: verdana,geneva">Conversely, guaranteeing that you get a complete set of armor after a few runs through the instances also takes away from the game's fun."</span></p><p><span style="font-family: andale mono,times">The point of instance runs is to acquire gear that allows your character to fight the more difficult mobs. If people are frustrated by the fact that they need a certain piece for them to progress and the opportunities pass them every time, they are not going to enjoy the game. People want to progress, not stagnate in the same area time and time again.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: andale mono,times">What can be done about this? The NBG system, while feasible, will start a cry of the devs "babying" those who are gipped by ninja looters. Just as a government isn't going to pass a new law because someone doesn't like something, the devs aren't going to revolutionize the game just for a few unlucky people. A similar thing that can be done is to make No-Trade items tradeable ONLY to those in the group/raid and ONLY those people within the time of the named being beaten. If somebody leaves the group and another one enters, they would not be allowed to any of the loot that was there beforehand. 95% of ninja'd loot was there because someone eagerly pressed the want button to get the uberhaxxorz loot they worked hard for. I'm sure they will happily give the piece to whoever needs it in the group.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: andale mono,times">People may not break any rules by doing these things, but there is the code of moral ethics that everyone needs to follow. Anyone who vioates these ethics are simply bad people and those who you will not hang out with again.</span></p></span></span>

[Korpo]

<span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times">Obviousman wrote: </span><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"><span style="color: #3300ff">The argument of the OP is that the loot system is <b>broken</b> because he gets the same thing all the time, which is the point I'm disagreeing with; I definitely agree with the fact that it sucks to get the same thing every time. However, arguing that things are<i> broken </i>and then providing evidence of how they are <i>frustrating</i> is ignorant at best, disingenuous at worst.</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times">It is simply unreasonable to take the time to ensure that everyone in the group will follow NBG policies before pulling a named encounter and booting anyone you think will roll for something you shouldn't. However, the devs cannot govern common courtesy: If another member takes something you need, that's just tough luck for you.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"><span style="color: #3300ff">Nobody can <i>know</i> the future, but everyone can <i>predict</i> the future with a good degree of accuracy. I can predict that I'll have a sandwich for lunch tomorrow, since I've had a sandwich for lunch the last 28 days in a row. I don't know I'll have a sandwich, maybe the sandwich place will burn down today, or maybe I'll be sick tomorrow, or maybe this or maybe that. The point is that someone with a bit of common sense can predict what will happen when something nice drops based on how the person has behaved prior to that nice drop.</span> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times">Again, this is common courtesy. If people spend the time to complete the ring event and spawn the named encounter, they should ahve the right to fight the named encounter. The supposed "kill stealers" aren't breaking any legal policies, but it is just plain rude and inconsiderate.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"><span style="color: #3300ff">Of course it's rude and inconsiderate, but it's perfectly within the rules of the game. If I was playing basketball against a 3rd grader, I could either let him shoot a few baskets and have fun or I could jump up and swat every shot back into his face, then dance around talking about how he ain't got no game, then dunk on him. Both are within the rules, just one is in poor taste. Nobody advocates playing rudely, but if someone chooses to, he's well within his rights.</span> </span></p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"><p>The point of instance runs is to acquire gear that allows your character to fight the more difficult mobs. If people are frustrated by the fact that they need a certain piece for them to progress and the opportunities pass them every time, they are not going to enjoy the game. People want to progress, not stagnate in the same area time and time again.</p></span><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"><span style="color: #3300ff">If people choose to run instances to get gear, then they have to face the fact that it may take a lot of runs to get that gear. It's no secret.</span></span><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"> </span> </p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times">What can be done about this? The NBG system, while feasible, will start a cry of the devs "babying" those who are gipped by ninja looters. Just as a government isn't going to pass a new law because someone doesn't like something, the devs aren't going to revolutionize the game just for a few unlucky people. A similar thing that can be done is to make No-Trade items tradeable ONLY to those in the group/raid and ONLY those people within the time of the named being beaten. If somebody leaves the group and another one enters, they would not be allowed to any of the loot that was there beforehand. 95% of ninja'd loot was there because someone eagerly pressed the want button to get the uberhaxxorz loot they worked hard for. I'm sure they will happily give the piece to whoever needs it in the group.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times">People may not break any rules by doing these things, but there is the code of moral ethics that everyone needs to follow. Anyone who vioates these ethics are simply bad people and those who you will not hang out with again.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"><span style="color: #3300ff">You can't regulate morality.</span></span><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"> </span> </p></blockquote><span style="font-size: small; font-family: andale mono,times"> [Removed for Content] edit for funky fonts. </span>

[Guy De Alsace]

<cite>Etchii wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>the random chance master chests always drop common master spells</p><p>never gear</p><p>ever</p></blockquote>Not true. A Paladin in our guild got a set of tier 4 fabled gauntlets from a solo shark in Enchanted Lands. It was a server discovery too.

[Squigglle]

we had the harbinger drop a treasure chest with like 1 adept spell and some crap duel wield axe with a very low rating haha

[Freliant]

<p>T6+ Random mobs (non-named) never drop fabled... ever.</p><p> Hopefully this will change in T8... if we petition enough and hope.</p>

[ThyMajesty]

<blockquote><p>Korpo wrote:</p><p></p><p>Nobody can <i>know</i> the future, but everyone can <i>predict</i> the future with a good degree of accuracy. I can predict that I'll have a sandwich for lunch tomorrow, since I've had a sandwich for lunch the last 28 days in a row. I don't know I'll have a sandwich, maybe the sandwich place will burn down today, or maybe I'll be sick tomorrow, or maybe this or maybe that. The point is that someone with a bit of common sense can predict what will happen when something nice drops based on how the person has behaved prior to that nice drop.</p></blockquote><p>Pls, tell me your secret, how you determine this?</p><p>We are talking about PUG here, right? How can I know in which ways someone is acting, if I actually group with him/her for about...uhh...15 minutes? Most times one is lucky to actually receive more than a "hello" and "lets go to X" within that time. </p><p>People you know won't do that, some others you may know by reputation and just avoid them.... But thats not the point here, you are talking about "common sense" for people you don't know AND actually never had a chance to GET to know to this point ...  and on top of that, with the prediction, that a sandwich tomorrow will behave again as a sandwich (lol)... </p><p>i don't know where you live, but in my hometown sandwiches are not very able to make own decisions...</p><p>so again, how can you seperate those jerks from another within that time?</p><p>PS: feel free to flame me for my language, i'm not a native speaker <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[YummiOger]

<p>LOL .. if u guys are seriously complaining about the Dual-class Ledgendary EoF set (only 12 full sets, dungon runnable every day), you should try Raiding. 24 Sets only runnable 1 time a week for the most part. after 8 months of EoF raids i got 1 (!) drop, and we have never seen some drops. Some of those Raid Nameds have 30item loot tables ... Run the %'s on that!!  <img src="/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   LOL</p><p>But HECK YA! i would be in total favor of a new Set Armor system! i think the Fable EoF Set drop rate is BULL CRAAAPPpp</p>

[Beldin_]

<cite>Etchii wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>the random chance master chests always drop common master spells</p><p>never gear</p><p>ever</p></blockquote><p> And 99% of them are Coercer/Illusionst or maybe another class that nobody in the guild has a high-level toon of <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Yeah .. and once i saw a Fabled Item drop from a solo briarbaw in EL, and also some Heroic Bosses in Runnyeye drop Fabled, but after that you don't get any Fableds anymore, beside the crappy helm in Mines of Meldrath, and that thing is just a bad joke.</p>

[ThyMajesty]

<p>for the topic:</p><p>yeah there seems to be issues with raid-RNG at least</p><p>othysis constantly drops trouba-set (after the 5th orso drop we switch our troub for another toon for this mob :roll<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, so we workend around it, and guess whats happening now? treyloth constantly drops wizards hat...</p><p>dear...</p><p>i'm not sure, but other raids report similar "favorite" drops, though they get others over and over... </p><p>there IS something broken</p>

[Freliant]

Shalla@Valor wrote: <blockquote>...but after that you don't get any Fableds anymore, beside the crappy helm in Mines of Meldrath, and that thing is just a bad joke.</blockquote><p> Actually, Mines of Meldrath has 4 fabled pieces, and 2 that are very very worthwhile (yes that helm is a bad joke). The Gackhammer is a fabled 2 handed hammer with a nice lil lightning effect every 5 seconds that is on par with T6 Raid mob drops. Very high dps (74.8 or roundabouts) for a level 52 hammer and on top of this, it makes crafting materials drop from the mobs in the mines.. including, and specially rare metals, like cobalt and such... truly a magnificent weapon. The other one is Meldrath's Staff. That is by far the best caster staff in T6. Has a 45+ to all damage types and a boat load of Int for T6.. in addition to nice dps if the caster decides to bonk something on the head.</p><p>Solo mobs, or trash mobs, however will never drop a fabled piece... which is sad.. you can kill things till the cows come home, and never ever see a fabled drop. I hope this gets changed and that all mobs in the world have a 1 in 10,000, chance of dropping a fabled. from a set group of fabled for the mob you are killing. MHO</p>

[Beldin_]

<cite>Freliant wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Solo mobs, or trash mobs, however will never drop a fabled piece... which is sad.. you can kill things till the cows come home, and never ever see a fabled drop. I hope this gets changed and that all mobs in the world have a 1 in 10,000, chance of dropping a fabled. from a set group of fabled for the mob you are killing. MHO</p></blockquote>I think they also never ever drop Legendary, even a legendary 1/10000 would be welcome, or maybe at least treasured items that anybody may wear, and not just vendor/transmuter trash all the time <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Palathas]

I don't mind the way it is at the moment except that when you kill a named heroic or any epic for the first time it should drop at least an Ornate or higher. After that, as is should be fine. This prevents item farmers destroying contested zones or the market for items. Just my opinion though.

[Lariu]

<p>There's a problem with the fabled class armour too. Ok if you rip these zones apart week in week out for long enough there's a good chance your whole raid will end up with at least most of their class pieces (and probably plenty of superior stuff), but we have some players who have almost a full set and others who have nothing, not one little bit...</p><p>Some very well equipped players have spoken about sitting out of raids or playing an alt or someone else's toon so their class isn't in the list.... Couldn't there just be some kind of switch to opt-out of the class loot drops?</p><p>Admittedly that could be open to abuse, but you should be able to get some reward to say clearing MMIS - rather than seeing every piece that drops being transmuted.</p>