Alternate Heroic and Epic Idea [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Zabjade

06-23-2007, 07:45 PM

Instead of having some (Not all of course) Heroic and Epics hitting harder, have it so they last longer then most fights would (Almost insane ammount of HP) This could also make for solo/group-able Epics battles that could last for a half hour to an hour on a singe target (For those who can't raid and want some challenge) it would still be a challange and maybe allow the introduction of vision-quest like Quest-chains.Just some free advice, take it for what it's worth.I'm sure some hardcore raider will come along and say it's a Horrible Idea. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

TerriBlades

06-23-2007, 08:28 PM

I wouldnt say its a bad idea... I just question how many non-raiding players are capable of an endurance fight that lasts 30m to an hour. Probably not many, and as such would be wasted content. If it wasnt wasted, it would be done by those that raid. Most heroic encounters, in their current state, are a joke. Things die way too quickly. So while its not a bad idea, it would probably go largely un-used by its target audience.

Zabjade

06-23-2007, 08:53 PM

I.d say it depends on the reward (choice of...) at the end.

Deson

06-23-2007, 10:55 PM

The items would have to be not just good, but so good as to render every other drop obsolete. If they aren't, the effort pricing required gets to be so high that the content will be ignored by the bulk of the playerbase for much more accessible fare.

EtoilePirate

06-23-2007, 11:56 PM

I'd be all for lengthening the time it takes to bring down the major heroic encounters, but -- you ever hd an EQ2 fight last 5-10 minutes? By the time it gets up there everyone's of the "oh god make it end" mentality, hehe. I think 30 minutes would make most players tear their own hair out. It'd have to be a REALLY clever fight to make anyone want to do it, not just the-same-but-longer.

Zabjade

06-24-2007, 03:11 AM

Ok I admit I was exagerating the time, basicly because if I said anything shorter I knew it would be rejected out-of-hand, the time-amount was based on how long many full raids are with multiple encounters.Where these zones would have a few trashmobs and then the big enchilada guy/gal/etc at the end. 15 to 20 minutes sound about right or is that still to long for an epic battle solo or 10 minutes group. For a wandering Epic 5 to 10 minutes

Computer MAn

06-24-2007, 03:33 AM

Some fights already do last for 10 mins+ so the idea is really uneeded and just seems like a cry from a non raider who wants to get raid loot.

TheSpin

06-24-2007, 06:26 AM

I think this idea is better applied to herioc content than epic. When I crawl a dungeon with a good group the mobs last approxmiately 20-30 seconds each I think, named maybe twice that time. Longer fights would give you a chance to cycle through skills a little more in a single fight and give you a chance to refine your casting order and tweak your dps output to be at its best. It would also further increase the need for power regen (and crowd control) classes in groups without making them an absolutely necessary component in the group.

Zabjade

06-24-2007, 08:51 PM

Computer MAn wrote: <blockquote>Some fights already do last for 10 mins+ so the idea is really uneeded and just seems like a cry from a non raider who wants to get raid loot. </blockquote><img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Used to be a raider (Until the latest guild I belionged to died) not much for loot monks anyway, and my original suggestion was 30 minutes to an hour. Hate to tell you this, but your reply sounds like trolling then ways of hammering it out. If I have the jones to raid, not much I know a former guild member or two who might be able to get me in one. My Kevetch is some of the LONGER questlines start out as Solo the shift to Group and the Raid, and unless you have everyone on the same page throughout you spend most of the latter stuff going back and backtracking for those haven't. And I think those questlines are the ones you can't share.My idea is really more from the roleplaying standpoint of an Epic battle between two fighters that last for a what seems like hours or days (Not IRL of course) and worthy of a Bard's Song.

TheGReddy

06-25-2007, 02:31 AM

From a roleplaying view, that would be a pretty epic battle.But lets talk reality, or virtuality whatever.1. The group or raid would probably fall asleep trying to kill one mob for a half hour.2. You would most likely run out of power after say 20 mins at the most with a power regin class.3. If it was a contested dungeon, you would prolly die of adds if you didnt die of boredom already.4. If you didnt die of boredom the it was probably too hard and you would have wiped.5. Loot would have to be 3x as good as it is now for anybody to spend that much time trying to kill one guy. 6. I would probably say more but you get my point.But still it is a nice idea from a roleplaying point of view i have to admit<img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Zabjade

06-25-2007, 03:27 AM

Oniase@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>From a roleplaying view, that would be a pretty epic battle.But lets talk reality, or virtuality whatever.1. The group or raid would probably fall asleep trying to kill one mob for a half hour.I've always been flexible on the time part.2. You would most likely run out of power after say 20 mins at the most with a power regin class.I play a Monk I'm used to that on Green ^^^ Heroics autoattack time.3. If it was a contested dungeon, you would prolly die of adds if you didnt die of boredom already.I hope that Feign Death or Fall of the Pheonix don't fail <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 4. If you didnt die of boredom the it was probably too hard and you would have wiped.I never get bored it's the artist in me I always have a mental story going in my head. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />5. Loot would have to be 3x as good as it is now for anybody to spend that much time trying to kill one guy. They need to fix Loot tables anyway.6. I would probably say more but you get my point.Yes and I have responded to each one, one way or another.But still it is a nice idea from a roleplaying point of view i have to admit<img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Yep and although Fabled Loot would be nice, I can settle for Legendary if it is good legendary or even treasured, I prefer soloing because I seem to be the Grim reaper of guilds every guild I have joined has died. (Contemplates rolling an alt and joining the troller's guild just to be cruel and kill the guild nawww not worth the effort) Still can you imagine walking through town and having an NPC Bard sing your tales. </blockquote>

MadLordOfMilk

06-25-2007, 03:41 PM

Longer != Harder <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> All it does is give you more opportunities to do something stupid.... long enough and it comes down to pure luck. Though, that applies moreso to action-type gameplay than typical MMORPG gameplay. In any case, I'd like some harder group content with nice rewards. Kinda like Unrest - in a sense, it's a group "raid zone". Have more instances like that, but that require a bit more strategy. Unrest you can apply some strategy to the nameds but for the most part, you can just speed-burn them and avoid any crazy effects they may have. A better option overall would just be fights made harder in a different way than "scale up mob damage" or "mob throws out fifty kajillion control effects". Again, Unrest, good example... if the stuff doesn't die in lightning speed. Also add the option of a HARD version of an instance - make it available after you clear the normal zone, and have the mobs more difficult with either better loot or have the uber-rare-but-awesome loot drop more often. Or both. Those are my ideas as far as making things more interesting than "find a better tank".

KBern

06-25-2007, 04:20 PM

<cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Instead of having some (Not all of course) Heroic and Epics hitting harder, have it so they last longer then most fights would (Almost insane ammount of HP) This could also make for solo/group-able Epics battles that could last for a half hour to an hour on a singe target (For those who can't raid and want some challenge) it would still be a challange and maybe allow the introduction of vision-quest like Quest-chains.Just some free advice, take it for what it's worth.I'm sure some hardcore raider will come along and say it's a Horrible Idea. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Why would only raiders think this is a bad idea? I raid and most raid fights don't last this long.Why would people want to fight the same mob for 30-60 minutes whether it be solo, group, or raid?Sounds simply tedious to me. Challenge is in tactics and how you react to the what the mob is doing, not how long you can stand there hitting buttons. <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Bladewind

06-25-2007, 04:25 PM

I'm all for having puzzles to unlock content, zonewide effects (a la loping curse), and giving mobs special abilities to make them tougher, but stretching fights out to last inanely long amounts of time would be a step backward. Time sinks are poor substitues for real challenges.

Rast

06-25-2007, 04:42 PM

would be better (IMO) if the current mobs just changed their personality every so often to keep people on their toes. If the mob spawn points changed every so often. If the AI was closer to Artifical Intelligence rather than artifical idiocy.Fights don't need to be longer, they need to be evolving. You shouldn't be able to point out a mob and go... at 75%, he changes stance, at 25% you stop autoattacking or you will wipe... That is what is wrong with encounters, once you beat it, it is beaten and it is a repeat ad naseum until you get the loot you want.Places need more wanderers, mobs need personalities (expecially humanoid ones). Think about it, it is silly that you can body pull a mob who is guarding the door, but he doesn't call his companion when things go rough???Mobs need some randomness in them... A 'personality' seed as it were that causes them to act just a hair bit different each time they are spawned.

Zabjade

06-25-2007, 06:01 PM

I've always said that the time would be a flexible option, I just put pout half hour to an hour kinda like a BARTERING process <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

TheGReddy

06-25-2007, 09:53 PM

<cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oniase@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>From a roleplaying view, that would be a pretty epic battle.But lets talk reality, or virtuality whatever.1. The group or raid would probably fall asleep trying to kill one mob for a half hour.I've always been flexible on the time part.There are tons in people who fall asleep during raids in my guild when we are just fighting trash mobs.2. You would most likely run out of power after say 20 mins at the most with a power regin class.I play a Monk I'm used to that on Green ^^^ Heroics autoattack time.Its different when you are playing a caster class that does nothing but use up power.3. If it was a contested dungeon, you would prolly die of adds if you didnt die of boredom already.I hope that Feign Death or Fall of the Pheonix don't fail <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Bleh my tinkering skill is too low so my FD item is only at 50%4. If you didnt die of boredom the it was probably too hard and you would have wiped.I never get bored it's the artist in me I always have a mental story going in my head. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I got B's in art class, dont ask me how.5. Loot would have to be 3x as good as it is now for anybody to spend that much time trying to kill one guy. They need to fix Loot tables anyway.Thats true.6. I would probably say more but you get my point.Yes and I have responded to each one, one way or another.Maybe to a way that you would be flexible with but im not too sure about others.But still it is a nice idea from a roleplaying point of view i have to admit<img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Yep and although Fabled Loot would be nice, I can settle for Legendary if it is good legendary or even treasured, I prefer soloing because I seem to be the Grim reaper of guilds every guild I have joined has died. (Contemplates rolling an alt and joining the troller's guild just to be cruel and kill the guild nawww not worth the effort) Still can you imagine walking through town and having an NPC Bard sing your tales. </blockquote> </blockquote>

Zabjade

06-26-2007, 01:35 AM

LOL you have to admit it would defiantly be a risk vs reward issue lol, and a break from uber damage.

simpwrx02

06-26-2007, 10:21 AM

Might as well give the Mob a good sized power drain with a 100M range say 1k power every minute, then do a short Lifetap AoE of say 15M thats heals him for 3% for every one that gets hit then every 25% life he reflects spells for 15 seconds, have adds spawn that are class specific non heriocs but only that class can do damage to the add aka fighter/mage/healer/scout. And throw in a reverse Phase spell that makes who ever is at the top of the hate list have virtually no hate. Auto attakcs from the mob will be mainly slashing his power drain will be divine based life tap of course disease based. Auto attack should hit a EoF legendary geared plate tank for around 1500-2000 with around a 3 second delay. Power drain takes 4 seconds to cast and if he is interrupted he keeps trying untill the spell goes off, but atuo attacks will go off between each spell attempt the life tap has a emote with it and can be stifled or stunned to prevent it, however the mob will get an immunity to stuns and stifles similiar to epics only the immunity duration is reduced in half from what epics recieve. His reflect would be an insatant cast with an emote which will be "I am rubber you're glue bounces off of me and sticks to you" okay maybee that was a little wierd but tell me you wouldn't die laughing the first time a mob said that.That sounds like a fun encounter nice and long 10 minutes would be my guess and you have to actually have a clue of your surroundings the whole time, the group would have to be well built to succed and loot shoudl be on the nizarar/unrest type aka top of the line legendary and a guarenteed level 70 master spell. Make it a contested instance which is accessable no sooner than 2 hours after the mob was killed but this instance needs to be at the bottom of say Mistmore Castle type dungeon with a large amount of herioc trash to prevent people from camping mindlessly aka you have to fight constantly if you want to get in.