Pending and current "threats" to sorcerer Identity- opinions please

[Aranieq]

I took the liberty of adding a poll topic for this discussion, as the Warlocks have a good discussion going on atm. It's isn't intended to take away from this thread but to involve the wizards as well. Feel free to share, or just vote <a href="http://www.eq2bm.com/news.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://www.eq2battlemage....if" border="0"></a> <p><b><span style="font-size: x-large"><span style="color: #66ff00"><a href="http://www.eq2bm.com/news.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Your opinion</a>: </span></span></b><span style="font-size: x-small">We want to know what you think...</span></p> <ul><li><a href="http://www.eq2battlemage.com/viewtopic.php?t=137" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Is there a Threat to Sorcerer Identity?</a> <ul><li>So many threads debating the future of Warlocks and Wizards and the threat that upcoming changes pose to them.</li><li>Where do you stand and what ideas would you pose to fix them?</li></ul> </li></ul>

[Dextera]

Sooo this is kinda like an advertisement for a rant thread?

[slippery]

Yep. And there is nothing wrong with Sorcerors.

[Aranieq]

warlocks have not had a single rant in their discussion of this topic.. just discussing their views and sharing input for improvement... not every disagreement has to be a rant.  And as for rants, well everyone is entitled to their opinions.  Possibly the Warlocks feel more strongly than the Wizards do about the pending changes because of the nature of their dps/aggro ratio.

[TheBu]

<p>funny... u ask about Pending and current "threats" to sorcerer Identity.</p><p>I would say visual. My wiz has a worldwar 2 german hat with a mask and wears a vest. the little short guy looks like a dart. [fix] easy give me my wizzy hat and a staff along with a robe. a tall and pointy hat, not a metal pokey thing.</p><p>Ther is a non dps focus on the class. wards and shields out our whoo who. I think a wiz is a master of the elements and of Damage. give us some long recast and big boom spells. nerfing and what seems like a lack of dev consern. ther seem to be a push to get  pep to play a diffrent class than the wiz but nurfing them. And ther seems to be little dev feadback in the forum. [fix] If they want less people to play a wiz then just make add some complexty to the class. And say hello every once in a while. </p>

[iceriven2]

my rant will always start with WHY?  Why must sorcerers suffer with there horrible excuse for agro control.  Why does every dps class have a way to control there agro while sorcerers is unbelievable Inadequate.  Sorcerers are not the undisputed champs of DPS even with 6 plus classes to help us get the dps we can do there still classes out there that can come close or beat us.  Yes we share the t1 dps spot which most dpsers don't mind  but why make us suffer for it while all the other don't.  If Someone from soe could explain why we don't and its reasonable then ok...but for the moment i honestly can not see any reason for us not to.  We are not super ubah and or undisputed t1 dps its shared with 4 other classes.  So i ask again WHY?

[simpwrx02]

<cite>Aranieq wrote:</cite><blockquote>warlocks have not had a single rant in their discussion of this topic.. just discussing their views and sharing input for improvement... not every disagreement has to be a rant.  </blockquote><p> Okay I am calling you out on this.  Please dont bring falseness to the boards, not a single rant you are the only poster in that topic and onyl 3 people have even voted for your poll. This is simply an advertising ploy to get people to use your website.  However most mages/raiders all go to the other EQ2 website and we all know the one I am talking about.</p><p>We can all rant either here or the other website in hopes that a dev will read the post and maybee find something constructive enough to see things from the sorcs point of view and then incorperate it into thier development.</p>

[Generic123]

<p>Current threat is our limited hate reduction compared to other classes.  </p><p>The big threat in RoK is the fact Ice Nova probably won't receive an upgrade.   No other class (except possibly Warlock) is so dependant on a single spell/CA, so the lack of an upgrade means that Wizards will have one of the worst DPS scaling when the level cap rises.    </p>

[Aranieq]

<cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aranieq wrote:</cite><blockquote>warlocks have not had a single rant in their discussion of this topic.. just discussing their views and sharing input for improvement... not every disagreement has to be a rant.  </blockquote><p> Okay I am calling you out on this.  Please dont bring falseness to the boards, not a single rant you are the only poster in that topic and onyl 3 people have even voted for your poll. This is simply an advertising ploy to get people to use your website.  However most mages/raiders all go to the other EQ2 website and we all know the one I am talking about.</p><p>We can all rant either here or the other website in hopes that a dev will read the post and maybee find something constructive enough to see things from the sorcs point of view and then incorperate it into thier development.</p></blockquote>http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367907 bout 4 replies down... <b>"I took the liberty of adding a poll topic for this discussion. It's isn't intended to take away from this thread but to involve the wizards as well. Feel free to share, or just vote"</b> Try not to be the guy always looking for a rant and maybe you will find that things are just not that miserable. Like I said I made a topic to involve the wizards in the topic.. you don't have to involve yourself if you feel so strongly... but if you choose to be the guy to look for rants when there are none, or to make things miserable you will find them, it's the nature of it. and you don't have to talk around in circles .. <a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">EQ2Flames</a> is a great site, I'm sure they would be very happy to hear honest public support.  I'm perfectly happy to support anyone going to there and contributing. I don't fear saying their name it's not taboo ya know.  EQ2Flames is an all inclusive (all classes all servers) "free-speech" forum.  Not for the faint of heart who just desire asking things without fear of someone slamming down on them for apparently no reason though, they are not horribly forgiving of the younger players stumbling in with honest yet "green" opinions.  Which is why I did not make a separate thread for free discussion there.  I was not looking for rants or out of the blue slamming.  Next time you don't like the topic or just seem to have something against the poster for some un-known reason try to find a way to at least contribute something other than a nasty desire to alienate people. <hr /> the reply in that thread on <a href="http://www.eq2battlemage.com/portal.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">EQ2BattleMage</a> is a copy of a response by me made in the warlock forum.  Like I said I was sharing a common forum for wizard and warlock on a common topic hosted in a neutral forum to both, on a topic that is near and dear to both classes... didn't fathom that would make someone so miserable and hateful.  I would likely just ignore this but for the comment of "falseness" on my part.  I'm a VERY up-front and honest person.  Doesn't always make me a nice person but I'm not dishonest.  I'd appreciate it if I were not slandered in the future.  I'm willing to chalk this altercation up to "mis-understanding" and let bygones be. ---apologies for hijacking--- <hr />The dev's may not post on EQ2BattleMage, but EQ2BattleMage does participate in Public dev meetings, fan site meetings and requests updates on MAGE related topics.  We are a focused site for mages only and no other class.  So when I said I wanted the wizards opinion it was for this.  So the next time a dev meeting is open to the public, or fansite staff only, or when I send in my Q&A's for mage concerns and desires.. I have an accurate representation from wizards as well as the other 5 mage sub-classes. <hr /> It appears wizards do have similar aggro concerns the warlocks are mentioning.. perhaps I was mistaken in saying that the Locks were more concerned about aggro.

[ThyMajesty]

<p>Well i also never unterstood why this is in current state.</p><p>1st i brake down, which chars i consider T1-dps, and how their aggromanagement is</p><p>1. Assasin - has hatetransfer for about 20+ %, even more, can use a deaggropoison if needed</p><p>2. Swashy - same here</p><p>3. Ranger - has some kind of stance, that decreases hate-accrue for about the same amount (can't remember exact number), deaggropoison applies here too</p><p>4. summoner - DPS = own dps + pets DPs -> actually just have to watch that their pet does not die, so aggro/hate is usually split up and thus not an issue</p><p>well, finally</p><p>5. sorcerers - singletarget hate-transfer for 4% if mastered there is some gear, that provides deaggroprocs, but actually they are either on bad other stats or hard to come by</p><p>all mentioned classes parse roughly the same, but why oh why does each one has BUILD-IN aggro-reduction way better than sorcerers? i rarely see scouts die on raids, and if they draw aggro....who cares? they are in chain, T2 armor in terms of damage reduction... they can take a few hits, even from an epic, whereas the most fragile chars get oneshotted most times</p><p>yes squishies can AA-build for deaggro....but why we lack deaggro by design and THUS are actually forced to do so, while scouts do not since the hatetransfer is more than sufficient?</p><p>i do not see any reason for this right now</p><p> for the warlocks: i actually betrayed my warlock to wizard out for 3 reasons...first, is this very topic - i want do to dps, and YES i know aggromanagement is everyone's own in the first, BUT warlock is build for AOE, which is indeed nice as an overall conception and uniqueness, but suffers from the way the combatengine is designed on contrary... tank as focus for the mobs has indeed grptaunts, but is waaaaay more capable holding aggro to one target (autoattack/additional singletaunts, generally CAs are more likely to be singletarget than AE) second... whats the use in nuking a whole encounter down at the same time? warlock an wizard may be able to complete it in the same time (wiz one by one with hard singlehits), but a mob deals 100% DMG even at 5% health, so incoming damage will be cut down by wizard far better, just by the design of the class third...in terms of soloing, its nice to have a grproot, but in case of warlock, whats the use anyhow, when the main DMG-spells are dots on the ENCOUNTER, thus braking root constantly on potentially multiple mobs within it? and talking about singlemobs...wizard can do waaaay faster and safer just by design of of the spells</p><p>i admire all those warlocks out there, i actually may be manage to play one too, heck, i even would, as my creation of the char shows... but all the reasons i mentioned and the fact of the [I cannot control my vocabulary] aggromanagement, which hit them even harder than wizards, makes me feel in no way comfortable in playing a warlock</p><p>as a wizard i do not unterstand the overall sorcerer-policy, and yes i think there needs to be a review on that but looking on the number of sorcerers out there, especially wizards, i believe sony wont change anything since they appear to be fine and playable...</p>

[simpwrx02]

<cite>Aranieq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aranieq wrote:</cite><blockquote>warlocks have not had a single rant in their discussion of this topic.. just discussing their views and sharing input for improvement... not every disagreement has to be a rant.  </blockquote><p> Okay I am calling you out on this.  Please dont bring falseness to the boards, not a single rant you are the only poster in that topic and onyl 3 people have even voted for your poll. This is simply an advertising ploy to get people to use your website.  However most mages/raiders all go to the other EQ2 website and we all know the one I am talking about.</p><p>We can all rant either here or the other website in hopes that a dev will read the post and maybee find something constructive enough to see things from the sorcs point of view and then incorperate it into thier development.</p></blockquote>http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367907 bout 4 replies down... <b>"I took the liberty of adding a poll topic for this discussion. It's isn't intended to take away from this thread but to involve the wizards as well. Feel free to share, or just vote"</b> Try not to be the guy always looking for a rant and maybe you will find that things are just not that miserable. Like I said I made a topic to involve the wizards in the topic.. you don't have to involve yourself if you feel so strongly... but if you choose to be the guy to look for rants when there are none, or to make things miserable you will find them, it's the nature of it. and you don't have to talk around in circles .. <a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">EQ2Flames</a> is a great site, I'm sure they would be very happy to hear honest public support.  I'm perfectly happy to support anyone going to there and contributing. I don't fear saying their name it's not taboo ya know.  EQ2Flames is an all inclusive (all classes all servers) "free-speech" forum.  Not for the faint of heart who just desire asking things without fear of someone slamming down on them for apparently no reason though, they are not horribly forgiving of the younger players stumbling in with honest yet "green" opinions.  Which is why I did not make a separate thread for free discussion there.  I was not looking for rants or out of the blue slamming.  Next time you don't like the topic or just seem to have something against the poster for some un-known reason try to find a way to at least contribute something other than a nasty desire to alienate people. <hr /> the reply in that thread on <a href="http://www.eq2battlemage.com/portal.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">EQ2BattleMage</a> is a copy of a response by me made in the warlock forum.  Like I said I was sharing a common forum for wizard and warlock on a common topic hosted in a neutral forum to both, on a topic that is near and dear to both classes... didn't fathom that would make someone so miserable and hateful.  I would likely just ignore this but for the comment of "falseness" on my part.  I'm a VERY up-front and honest person.  Doesn't always make me a nice person but I'm not dishonest.  I'd appreciate it if I were not slandered in the future.  I'm willing to chalk this altercation up to "mis-understanding" and let bygones be. ---apologies for hijacking--- <hr />The dev's may not post on EQ2BattleMage, but EQ2BattleMage does participate in Public dev meetings, fan site meetings and requests updates on MAGE related topics.  We are a focused site for mages only and no other class.  So when I said I wanted the wizards opinion it was for this.  So the next time a dev meeting is open to the public, or fansite staff only, or when I send in my Q&A's for mage concerns and desires.. I have an accurate representation from wizards as well as the other 5 mage sub-classes. <hr /> It appears wizards do have similar aggro concerns the warlocks are mentioning.. perhaps I was mistaken in saying that the Locks were more concerned about aggro. </blockquote><p> Well now that you post the proper link information your post makes more sense, sorry but all you posted was the link to your forum along with the information you gave.  It is easy to get the impression that your discussion in this thread was meant to say that the conversation was taking place on the link you included.   I am not a mind reader and was unaware you were refering to the warlock boards on this site, being a little more specific would have solved this issue and saved both of us time.  Not sure where I was so hatefull, I am just not a fan of people advertising in this manner as to me it is almost the same as the plat tells I get in game.  </p><p>As far as aggro concerns go wizzys need almost as much support as warlocks the main difference is that we need a little less since we just hit the crap out of a single target, our AoEs can also get us in trouble they are not as good as warlocks , but they are not totally [Removed for Content] either, if I crit 2 of them in a row I am normally toast, and I am not even talking about fusion.  crit fusion to early and well I eat dirt on AoE fights. But if I crit glacial wind for around 1600/tick with 4 ticks and firestorm as APBAoE for 3500ish well I normally get aggro.</p><p>As far as the sorc class we need more proc gear which is how we start getting extra damage I woudl love to see more proc jewerly that is comparable to BCG in terms of usefulness and damage.  Sorcs are also power [Removed for Content] we burn power faster than almsot any other class in the game I know I can go through my 9k power pool in a 3 minute fight with FT capped at 113.  our spells really need a better damage to power ratio as right now 20:1 is a almost our top damage to power ratio at least as a wizzy, figure in 2k dps and we are burning 100 power per second or 6k a minute granted with raid debuffs that ratio more than likely increases to around 30:1 but that is still a lot of power lose.  Then after that time we drop dps like crazy as we are doing health to power.  Sure maybee these are rants, but I would love to see better damage to power ratios.</p><p>And Slippery I aggree there is nothign wrong with sorcs if you can get avatar loot, but when scouts get the same upgrades in dps from instanced mobs it seems a little out of balance. </p>

[simpwrx02]

<cite>Aranieq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>simpwrx02 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aranieq wrote:</cite><blockquote>warlocks have not had a single rant in their discussion of this topic.. just discussing their views and sharing input for improvement... not every disagreement has to be a rant.  </blockquote><p> Okay I am calling you out on this.  Please dont bring falseness to the boards, not a single rant you are the only poster in that topic and onyl 3 people have even voted for your poll. This is simply an advertising ploy to get people to use your website.  However most mages/raiders all go to the other EQ2 website and we all know the one I am talking about.</p><p>We can all rant either here or the other website in hopes that a dev will read the post and maybee find something constructive enough to see things from the sorcs point of view and then incorperate it into thier development.</p></blockquote>http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367907 bout 4 replies down... <b>"I took the liberty of adding a poll topic for this discussion. It's isn't intended to take away from this thread but to involve the wizards as well. Feel free to share, or just vote"</b> Try not to be the guy always looking for a rant and maybe you will find that things are just not that miserable. Like I said I made a topic to involve the wizards in the topic.. you don't have to involve yourself if you feel so strongly... but if you choose to be the guy to look for rants when there are none, or to make things miserable you will find them, it's the nature of it. and you don't have to talk around in circles .. <a href="http://www.eq2flames.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">EQ2Flames</a> is a great site, I'm sure they would be very happy to hear honest public support.  I'm perfectly happy to support anyone going to there and contributing. I don't fear saying their name it's not taboo ya know.  EQ2Flames is an all inclusive (all classes all servers) "free-speech" forum.  Not for the faint of heart who just desire asking things without fear of someone slamming down on them for apparently no reason though, they are not horribly forgiving of the younger players stumbling in with honest yet "green" opinions.  Which is why I did not make a separate thread for free discussion there.  I was not looking for rants or out of the blue slamming.  Next time you don't like the topic or just seem to have something against the poster for some un-known reason try to find a way to at least contribute something other than a nasty desire to alienate people. <hr /> the reply in that thread on <a href="http://www.eq2battlemage.com/portal.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">EQ2BattleMage</a> is a copy of a response by me made in the warlock forum.  Like I said I was sharing a common forum for wizard and warlock on a common topic hosted in a neutral forum to both, on a topic that is near and dear to both classes... didn't fathom that would make someone so miserable and hateful.  I would likely just ignore this but for the comment of "falseness" on my part.  I'm a VERY up-front and honest person.  Doesn't always make me a nice person but I'm not dishonest.  I'd appreciate it if I were not slandered in the future.  I'm willing to chalk this altercation up to "mis-understanding" and let bygones be. ---apologies for hijacking--- <hr />The dev's may not post on EQ2BattleMage, but EQ2BattleMage does participate in Public dev meetings, fan site meetings and requests updates on MAGE related topics.  We are a focused site for mages only and no other class.  So when I said I wanted the wizards opinion it was for this.  So the next time a dev meeting is open to the public, or fansite staff only, or when I send in my Q&A's for mage concerns and desires.. I have an accurate representation from wizards as well as the other 5 mage sub-classes. <hr /> It appears wizards do have similar aggro concerns the warlocks are mentioning.. perhaps I was mistaken in saying that the Locks were more concerned about aggro. </blockquote><p> Well now that you post the proper link information your post makes more sense, sorry but all you posted was the link to your forum along with the information you gave.  It is easy to get the impression that your discussion in this thread was meant to say that the conversation was taking place on the link you included.   I am not a mind reader and was unaware you were refering to the warlock boards on this site, being a little more specific would have solved this issue and saved both of us time.  Not sure where I was so hatefull, I am just not a fan of people advertising in this manner as to me it is almost the same as the plat tells I get in game.  </p><p>As far as aggro concerns go wizzys need almost as much support as warlocks the main difference is that we need a little less since we just hit the crap out of a single target, our AoEs can also get us in trouble they are not as good as warlocks , but they are not totally [Removed for Content] either, if I crit 2 of them in a row I am normally toast, and I am not even talking about fusion.  crit fusion to early and well I eat dirt on AoE fights. But if I crit glacial wind for around 1600/tick with 4 ticks and firestorm as APBAoE for 3500ish well I normally get aggro.</p><p>As far as the sorc class we need more proc gear which is how we start getting extra damage I woudl love to see more proc jewerly that is comparable to BCG in terms of usefulness and damage.  Sorcs are also power [Removed for Content] we burn power faster than almsot any other class in the game I know I can go through my 9k power pool in a 3 minute fight with FT capped at 113.  our spells really need a better damage to power ratio as right now 20:1 is a almost our top damage to power ratio at least as a wizzy, figure in 2k dps and we are burning 100 power per second or 6k a minute granted with raid debuffs that ratio more than likely increases to around 30:1 but that is still a lot of power lose.  Then after that time we drop dps like crazy as we are doing health to power.  Sure maybee these are rants, but I would love to see better damage to power ratios.</p><p>And Slippery I aggree there is nothign wrong with sorcs if you can get avatar loot, but when scouts get the same upgrades in dps from instanced mobs it seems a little out of balance. </p>