Lotto Heals - Proposition for a couple of changes

[Avirodar]

I was thinking about the differences between Templars and Inquisitors, and I came to wonder, Why did Inquisitors lose our lotto heals? And why do Templars have Glory of Combat, and Inquisitors don't? Inquisitor = Offensive healer. Templar = Defensive healer. GoB is an OFFENSIVE proc. By right, it should be an Inquisitor buff. Templars are not short on the lotto heals, with mark+involuntary, but I would hate for them to simply lose a heal (and with that, see a few thousand high end templars quit EQ2), so I would like to propose: 1) Give Inquisitors Glory of Combat 2) Give Templars a new buff to replace GoB, that could work in one of two ways - 2a) A single target buff that requires either 1 concentration point (or alternatively, no concentration but limited to one target), that has an above average chance to proc a group-wide heal when the target is damaged. Proc rate may need some tweaking to be balanced. - 2b) A group buff that requires 1 point of concentration, that has an average-ish chance to proc a group heal when any group member is damaged. Result: Templars are triggering defensive heal procs, Inquisitors are triggering offensive heal procs. Both class types doing what they should be doing.

[inhumanus1986]

I couldn't agree more.  Even if it were an AA choice like druids can get, that style of healing fits our offensive healing style.  I would like to see convert trigger a bigger heal for its enormous power consumption (mentioned in another thread, 5 ticks of convert healing for the group heal/reactive/cure spells).  I don't really use act of....., especially since it has been normalized, so a proc heal that used a conc slot or could be attached to an ally would be great. Inhumanus Nex Nektulous server

[juz]

<p>That's interesting, I went to check what do INQs get instead of Glory of Combat and found out it's Fear...WEAK!</p><p>I think it's easier to leave the Templar buff as is and get rid of the INQ fear for something else. </p>

[quasigenx]

I agree, some of the Templar lotto heals are too offensive in nature. Mark is also offensive, requiring people to attack the mob to be healed. Can't really take away spells from a class at this point and give them to another, however. How about non-healing versions? Ie, proc DPS or Haste buffs on group members attacking mobs?

[graxnip]

heh fearful conversion is the only app4 in my book - a totally worthless spell when you consider social aggro. would love to see that spell line replaced.

[Avirodar]

Well yeah... If you guys are all in favor of asking SOE to dump Fearful Conversion (fear line) for Glory of Battle, that works for me too. I have actually spoken to a couple of Templars who said they think it would be good for Inq's to get GoB, but would much rather theirs remains unchanged. I guess there is no huge need to change/make a new skill for Templars. We can both have it.

[Spider]

<cite>juzam wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That's interesting, I went to check what do INQs get instead of Glory of Combat and found out it's Fear...WEAK!</p><p>I think it's easier to leave the Templar buff as is and get rid of the INQ fear for something else. </p></blockquote><p> i couldnt DISAGREE more i LOVE my fear and use it daily i wouldnt want to part with it for anything </p><p>its always a life saver when fighting multiple targets or when heals are getting hard to keep up with for w/e reason and it realy helps when u pull agro ( as i often do )  so do waht u will but DONT touch fear </p>

[graxnip]

so when you are in a group and get swarmed, you fear a mob and he goes running into his buddies causing them to aggro which in turn wipes your group, exactly what do tell your comrades? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> edit: yes i know not every instance is like that, it is a situational spell that has uses, I suppose I am too used to running around with a coercer.

[Spider]

<cite>graxnip wrote:</cite><blockquote>so when you are in a group and get swarmed, you fear a mob and he goes running into his buddies causing them to aggro which in turn wipes your group, exactly what do tell your comrades? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> edit: yes i know not every instance is like that, it is a situational spell that has uses, I suppose I am too used to running around with a coercer. </blockquote><p> apperantly you havent used your fear lately because it doesnt pull social agro  and hasnt for a long time </p><p>and even if it still did its called chain it by rooting first then fearing to give u in essence a MEZ that reduces hate </p>

[Avirodar]

If the mob stops to cast, or use a skill, or takes damage from a dot, or is debuffed, or directly attacked, it will social agro. AKA: If anyone is actually doing anything, you will get social agro most of the time. Fear is one of the most useless spells an Inquisitor has. For grouping, fear is broken far too often and is nothing but an add magnet. For solo play, fear adds nothing that average movement competency, and half a gram of intelligence when pulling, will entirely avoid the need for. As for fear being a "life saver" (as per Spiders claim), how would fear, which is a stated risk of a brutal wipe, be more beneficial than GoB proc'd heals?  I mean hmm...  Fear one mob and risk a guaranteed wipe, or have GoB helping you heal and keep the group alive much easier without need of control spells.  Thats a TOUGH choice. There is always one.

[Kizee]

<cite>Trinral wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was thinking about the differences between Templars and Inquisitors, and I came to wonder, Why did Inquisitors lose our lotto heals? And why do Templars have Glory of Combat, and Inquisitors don't? Inquisitor = Offensive healer. Templar = Defensive healer. GoB is an OFFENSIVE proc. By right, it should be an Inquisitor buff. Templars are not short on the lotto heals, with mark+involuntary, but I would hate for them to simply lose a heal (and with that, see a few thousand high end templars quit EQ2), so I would like to propose: 1) Give Inquisitors Glory of Combat 2) Give Templars a new buff to replace GoB, that could work in one of two ways - 2a) A single target buff that requires either 1 concentration point (or alternatively, no concentration but limited to one target), that has an above average chance to proc a group-wide heal when the target is damaged. Proc rate may need some tweaking to be balanced. - 2b) A group buff that requires 1 point of concentration, that has an average-ish chance to proc a group heal when any group member is damaged. Result: Templars are triggering defensive heal procs, Inquisitors are triggering offensive heal procs. Both class types doing what they should be doing. </blockquote><p> If you knew how much that spell procs even with the AA abiltity to enhance it you wouldn't want it.</p><p>If I have that spell on 2 people it maybe accounts for 2-3% of  zonewide heals. It sucks so bad that I really don't use it unless I get put in a scout group since I have nothing else to use the con on.</p>

[Avirodar]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If you knew how much that spell procs even with the AA abiltity to enhance it you wouldn't want it.</p><p>If I have that spell on 2 people it maybe accounts for 2-3% of  zonewide heals. It sucks so bad that I really don't use it unless I get put in a scout group since I have nothing else to use the con on.</p></blockquote> Interesting, I have had some templars quoting me 6% of their zonewide courtesy of GoB. But people can exaggerate, so,  I guess there is one sure-fire way to confirm numbers and keep a parse-log of our next EH run to see exactly what it is doing. I suspected it would be around 3-4%, but we will see how it goes with some actual solid numbers. And if GoB isn't overly powerful, then maybe it wouldn't hurt if SOE simply gave Glory of Battle to Inquisitors? It would give Inqs a little helping nudge in the right direction, and also then cater to a triage buff in the EoF Inq AA's that would be worth more than a shriveled peanut (heaven forbid). If you have some worthy parses of how GoB performs on occasions such as EH runs, and Avatar fights, please PM me some figures. Happy hunting.

[juz]

And fear constitues what zone wide? Even in group zones its useless...the root too (cause of short duration) but root is better. I'd say get rid of the fear and give INQs a real root. And get rid of the fear for a lotto heal or a lotto haste or something.

[Spider]

<cite>juzam wrote:</cite><blockquote>And fear constitues what zone wide? Even in group zones its useless...the root too (cause of short duration) but root is better. I'd say get rid of the fear and give INQs a real root. And get rid of the fear for a lotto heal or a lotto haste or something.</blockquote><p> or MAYBIE you could jsut jstu shut up and exile to templar since its obvious tahts waht u want to be </p>

[Avirodar]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote>or MAYBIE you could jsut jstu shut up and exile to templar since its obvious tahts waht u want to be </blockquote> Wow, someone needs to take a course in constructive debating. I remember when our root was useful. SOE reduced the duration and tripled the reuse timer (aka: made useless) because of the PVP servers. Another good example of how the minority servers have negatively influenced the majority, and weakened both the solo and group play of my primary class. Fear was tampered with as well, but truth be told, it always sucked. Either way, it was not really the end of the world. I know what class I play, and I know what my primary role is. Yes, that is right, I am a healer, first and always.  Trying to make one mob run away (and risk coming back with several adds), while the other mobs kill the tank/group, is not my style. That is why I proposed the addition of a buff that would be beneficial to the efficiency and durability of our primary role, even if SoE was to feel it had to come at the loss of a part of one section of our inefficient control utility. Of course, i'd love it if an SOE Dev was to read this thread, agree we should have GoB and feel that we don't need to lose fear to get it. I am just trying to be a little bit reasonable in hope they take these ideas seriously.

[Giral]

<p>the only reason to give us another heal is if we dont heal as well as the other healing classes </p><p>if all healers are balanced on there ability to heal the same but in diffrent ways then i wouldn't see us getting any loving in the healing department</p><p>so if you made a list would all the healer's be equal on healing ?   if inquistor's are not dead even with every other healing class in there main function then yes inquistor's need a boost , even that said if we don;t heal as well as a templar or even marginaly close then i also think inquisitor's need more healing to close the gap between our Good counterpart </p><p>P.s. i don't want aa's that increase my agro or my dp's , give me more abilties to buff,heal,re-active and im a happy healer  </p>

[TheSpin]

<p>1.  I agree that in some way Inquisitors need more love for healing.</p><p>2.  I believe that fear is better than people think because the snare on the mobs is massive and they will generally not get anywhere near any social mobs.  Anyone who's really given fear a chance usually finds it a lot more useful than they previously thought.</p>

[Kizee]

<p>I don't understand why you guys want more healing. </p><p>I think I have met 1 Inquisitor since I started playing game that actually heals and cures and is not in there meleeing ignoring what he/she should be doing.</p>

[Spider]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't understand why you guys want more healing. </p><p>I think I have met 1 Inquisitor since I started playing game that actually heals and cures and is not in there meleeing ignoring what he/she should be doing.</p></blockquote><p> realy? thats funny because personaly i tend to outparse most of the healers  in my raids in both heals and dps its all about being smart  if the group is covered on heals then add some dps rather than sitting there like a r3tarded stump  and if  ur getting hit its very easy to stop hitting ca's and start hitting heals  </p><p>domt whine jsut because there outdpsing you  when heals arnt needed its just plain childish and tot he guy complaining about get rid of our dps and add heals EXILE TO TEMPLAR  because apperantly tahts what u want to play </p>

[MadLuna]

<p>My main was a templar until I betrayed in in December to become an inquisitor due to my playstyle and lack of inquisitors on my guilds raids so I have been on both sides of the fence so to speak.</p><p>My experience with this is as follows:</p><p>Templars have more heal spells, gets stone skin which help a tank alot and gets more healing oriented AA class tree and is the main cleric choice for a MT tank group in raid due to buffs/spells</p><p>Inquisitors lack some of the heal spells that give an edge in long fights (such as GoC, Mark line and heals given when mob die), but are compensated with alot of debuffs that if not used properly will make your job as a healer harder than necessary. Inquisitors are nice to have with dps group due to their buffs and fanaticism spell.</p><p>So a inqusitors aint a [Removed for Content], but harder to be a good healer if looking for pure heals... but that is not the complete picture, debuffs for the win.</p><p>However, would love a spell such as GoC or Mark (which has a divine debuff in it) since it would help a bit!</p>

[Giral]

<cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't understand why you guys want more healing. </p><p>I think I have met 1 Inquisitor since I started playing game that actually heals and cures and is not in there meleeing ignoring what he/she should be doing.</p></blockquote><p> thats sad : (  and speak's volume's ! </p><p> all my debuff's are mastered all my debuff inceases in Aa's are maxxed , all my heal's master'd, all my buffs master/adpt3 . so there are those of us that do do our job's ; ) </p><p>I do everything i can to max my healing and debuffing, and i'm a cure-aholic in the process tho i use alot of power. but i like to work : ) </p><p> what Tank what's to invite a healer to group to have the healer not Curing them or debuffing the mob's for the benefit of the entire group becuase there so busy trying to max there dp's ?  can just grab a fury in this case and have 2x the amount of dp's, and still get cured : )</p>

[Avirodar]

I love it when people say "If you want to be all heals and not DPS, betray to templar!!" Thats the sign of a true idiot. I still have not seen or heard of any Inquisitor, world wide, being able to pull the DPS that a templar in my guild can. Soooooooooooo.... Enjoy eating your words. You know who you are.

[Spider]

<cite>Giralus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't understand why you guys want more healing. </p><p>I think I have met 1 Inquisitor since I started playing game that actually heals and cures and is not in there meleeing ignoring what he/she should be doing.</p></blockquote><p> thats sad : (  and speak's volume's ! </p><p> all my debuff's are mastered all my debuff inceases in Aa's are maxxed , all my heal's master'd, all my buffs master/adpt3 . so there are those of us that do do our job's ; ) </p><p>I do everything i can to max my healing and debuffing, and i'm a cure-aholic in the process tho i use alot of power. but i like to work : ) </p><p> what Tank what's to invite a healer to group to have the healer not Curing them or debuffing the mob's for the benefit of the entire group becuase there so busy trying to max there dp's ?  can just grab a fury in this case and have 2x the amount of dp's, and still get cured : )</p></blockquote><p>whats sad is u both assume that jsut because an inquis is throwing a little dps there not healing or curing </p><p>personaly i can do all of the above with realtive ease  and can and do change tactics as the situation calls for it  if your inquisitors arnt doing the same then there jstu pathetic players dont blame the class for the faults of players </p>

[Orthureon]

This comes down to the issue that people from PVE were complaining about. Nerfing PVE to suit PVP, now you are asking for the same thing in reverse. Our fear in PVP is VERY useful. Imagine two players coming at you in a zone you fear one and he runs into aggro mobs, he dies. Then you only have to worry about the one on one that will take place. It is a strategic asset we can employ in PVP and I would very much hate to part with it. Unless of course they upped the duration on the root, lowered the recast, made it harder to resist (without AA) and a 5-10% chance to break upon hostile action (instead of 20%).

[Kizee]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't understand why you guys want more healing. </p><p>I think I have met 1 Inquisitor since I started playing game that actually heals and cures and is not in there meleeing ignoring what he/she should be doing.</p></blockquote><p> realy? thats funny because personaly i tend to outparse most of the healers  in my raids in both heals and dps its all about being smart  if the group is covered on heals then add some dps rather than sitting there like a r3tarded stump  and if  ur getting hit its very easy to stop hitting ca's and start hitting heals  </p><p>domt whine jsut because there outdpsing you  when heals arnt needed its just plain childish and tot he guy complaining about get rid of our dps and add heals EXILE TO TEMPLAR  because apperantly tahts what u want to play </p></blockquote><p>Oh so then if you are outparsing most of the healers then you guys don't need anymore healing abiltities.<img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Im not whining that they are out dpsing me.... im complaining about them not doing thier freekin job and healing and curing. I could care less about dps.... I am speced totally to boost my healing abiltities not dps.</p><p>Its not only in raids thats its a problem. Every time I get a Inq. as a main healing in exp groups they let people die over and over because they are too obcessed swinging thier hammer than healing.</p>

[Avirodar]

"out-parsing" other healers is so rediculously situational, that claims of doing such, proves nothing. If you have been reading these boards for a while, there is a good chance you will remember the comparison I made between a fury and an inquisitor, in terrms of group/raid healing capacity.  The raw output was 170,000 vs 70,000 hp per minute, in favor of the fury, who spent less power to heal 170k than inq's spend to heal 70k. With that in mind, furies can also lay down some brutal DPS. We have all been in groups/raids where we encounter people who are not as good as their class as others. Parses reflecting either that, or situational favoritism, do not accurately represent the healing abilities of a class. Inquisitors don't have stone skin, GoB, mark, involuntary, mana ward, blessings, full-hp rez, EoF heal/cure AAs, but I hardly have to argue that templars heal a lot better. The figures shown a fury to smoke an Inquisitors heal capacity. Everyone should know wardens smoke furies at healing, so I did not even need to add their total up. Shamans.. Wards... If the MT group shaman does not top the zone wide heal parse, they are being a bit lazy, or there is an absolute ton of AOE damage from start to finish. Any questions?

[inhumanus1986]

Hate to hear the problems w/ other Inqs letting people die, I'm sure most Inquisitors take pride in their healing.  Before fear was nerfed (im talking about a year or more ago), i cld use it in grps as a ghetto stun/root, because that was the effect it had after you struck the mob.  And it would last about 2 seconds.  Honestly though, I would like any boost we cld have to healing, being lotto heals, weapon procs, jewelery procs, etc.  We solo well enough, (killed many 66^^^ + names including Ahuron w/ 2 adds), and cld solo well w/ some DPS reduction.  I would like, through Achievement or new spells, an option to increase my healing and/or my options in the way i heal. Inhumanus Nex Nektulous Server

[LardLord]

<cite>Trinral wrote:</cite><blockquote>I love it when people say "If you want to be all heals and not DPS, betray to templar!!" Thats the sign of a true idiot. I still have not seen or heard of any Inquisitor, world wide, being able to pull the DPS that a templar in my guild can. Soooooooooooo.... Enjoy eating your words. You know who you are. </blockquote><p> Not just Templars, but I've seen Mystics, Wardens, and Furies experiment with setups that allow them to parse about as high or higher than DPS-spec'd Inquisitors on raids (1500+ DPS).  I assume Defilers are capable of spec'ing that way as well, but why would they?</p>

[Shalwin]

<cite>Trinral wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote>or MAYBIE you could jsut jstu shut up and exile to templar since its obvious tahts waht u want to be </blockquote> Wow, someone needs to take a course in constructive debating. I remember when our root was useful. SOE reduced the duration and tripled the reuse timer (aka: made useless) because of the PVP servers. Another good example of how the minority servers have negatively influenced the majority, and weakened both the solo and group play of my primary class. Fear was tampered with as well, but truth be told, it always sucked. Either way, it was not really the end of the world. I know what class I play, and I know what my primary role is. Yes, that is right, I am a healer, first and always.  </blockquote><p> On the first point, you are correct, on the second point, however, I believe you are mistaken.  From what I read, the changes to the control spells (roots, mezzes, fears) were done because the illusionists, and coercers complained, and whined and moaned that they weren't useful.  </p><p>Why would they need to change the duration of roots & fears in PvE, when they can change them in PvP without affecting PvE?</p><p>Based on some of your other posts, since every other healing class is better than the Inquisitor in... what seems to be every way.  What reason is there to play this class, other than a desire to be the underdog?  It sounds as though all Inquisitors should just betray to Templar and get it over with, or restart as a shaman, or druid class.</p>

[Spider]

Libbylou@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><cite>Trinral wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote>or MAYBIE you could jsut jstu shut up and exile to templar since its obvious tahts waht u want to be </blockquote> Wow, someone needs to take a course in constructive debating. I remember when our root was useful. SOE reduced the duration and tripled the reuse timer (aka: made useless) because of the PVP servers. Another good example of how the minority servers have negatively influenced the majority, and weakened both the solo and group play of my primary class. Fear was tampered with as well, but truth be told, it always sucked. Either way, it was not really the end of the world. I know what class I play, and I know what my primary role is. Yes, that is right, I am a healer, first and always.  </blockquote><p> On the first point, you are correct, on the second point, however, I believe you are mistaken.  From what I read, the changes to the control spells (roots, mezzes, fears) were done because the illusionists, and coercers complained, and whined and moaned that they weren't useful.  </p><p>Why would they need to change the duration of roots & fears in PvE, when they can change them in PvP without affecting PvE?</p><p>Based on some of your other posts, since every other healing class is better than the Inquisitor in... what seems to be every way.  What reason is there to play this class, other than a desire to be the underdog?  It sounds as though all Inquisitors should just betray to Templar and get it over with, or restart as a shaman, or druid class.</p></blockquote><p> thats trinal for u all he does is complain non stop but he refuses to exile or reroll  so id say all his points are therefore invalid </p><p>personaly on my inquis i have no problem keeping up with heals or when the situation allows putting out nice dps  are there little tweaks and imporovemetns id like to see? yes but not at the expense of trying to make us into a different class we are what we are the  evil version of templars</p><p>what they have for healing we have for doing damage and debuffing thats our role  so no we wont heal as much as a templar but we will do more damage  and anyone taht is getting out dpsed by a templar is in serious need of lessons on how to play an inquis  simple and plain  </p>

[Avirodar]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>what they have for healing we have for doing damage and debuffing thats our role  so no we wont heal as much as a templar but we will do more damage  and anyone taht is getting out dpsed by a templar is in serious need of lessons on how to play an inquis  simple and plain  </p></blockquote> Try Elrohn, 70 Templar, Nektulos Server. He's done over 2000 dps a number times, broken 1900's repeatedly. I guess that means every single Inquisitor in the world is in serious need of lessons on how to play the class? That or you are just stupid. Simple enough?

[PaganSaint]

LoL Spell proc gear, a troub and an illusionist do wonders. EDIT: But yes, in full agreement with your suggestion and rationale.

[Norrsken]

My pvp inquisitor wouldnt like to part with the fear. Fears are very useful in pvp. Even if there are no mobs around, the fear will give me enough time to get some heals off while they are out enjoying the scenery. and if I root them over there as well, then I'll be back at 100% health before they get anywhere near me again. For pve? Not incredibly good, but its still ghetto CC. Fear and root, necro style. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Avirodar]

Err.. Don't people use fear immunity abilities, items and potions, along with arcane cure potions in PVP? The combinations of those, along with the high chance of root/fear breaking on any damage, along with the impact of the target having half decent resists has... Fear is only useful against people I would take no pride in beating, but I guess PVP is more about "whack a noob and run" than "be the best you can"? PS: Pagansaint - He did not have an illusionist, or a troubador.  Yup, neither.  Now do you understand, a little better, where I am coming from? (Just imagine if he did.) PPS: My proposition still stands. Glory of Battle is a proc very fitting for Inquisitors to have, moreso than Templars. I would like to see SOE give due consideration into giving this buff to Inquisitors.

[Shalwin]

<cite>Trinral wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>what they have for healing we have for doing damage and debuffing thats our role  so no we wont heal as much as a templar but we will do more damage  and anyone taht is getting out dpsed by a templar is in serious need of lessons on how to play an inquis  simple and plain  </p></blockquote> Try Elrohn, 70 Templar, Nektulos Server. He's done over 2000 dps a number times, broken 1900's repeatedly. I guess that means every single Inquisitor in the world is in serious need of lessons on how to play the class? </blockquote><p> So what it it about the Inquisitor that makes it a class worth playing?  Are most Inquisitors playing the class simply because that's what they started, and they're too stubborn to switch to a better class?</p><p> On the original topic, I have to say that it would make much more sense if inquisitors had Glory of Combat.  Healing on the offensive for Inquisitors, healing on the defensive for Templars.  I would be absolutely shocked if any change was made, but hey, we can dream.</p>

[PaganSaint]

<p>If not a swap of the glory of combat to an inquisitor buff, which makes sense, maybe a new punishment type ability.</p><p>Say it has 10 triggers, every time the mob is damaged it has a 16% chance to heal the group of whoever damaged it.</p><p>That would be keeping in line with what we have already and would not create the same uproar as what was originally proposed could possibly occassion.</p><p>PS: Hmm thats interesting Trin, I'm going to look him and his gear up, was he going with a melee group I take it if no troub/illy? A dirge, zerker and/or coercer can buff the melee output significantly of a templar on top of the spell damage/proc abilities of the class. Luck plus Blessing with all that spell proc gear, and maybe propogation from a warlock?</p>

[Spider]

<p>ok try this have a templar solo a zone and ahve a good melee inquis solo and lets see whos gothe better dps </p><p>you cant count what one templars capable of as showing what all can do esspecialy since taht one templar is in perfect conditions with a perfect group setup </p>

[Avirodar]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ok try this have a templar solo a zone and ahve a good melee inquis solo and lets see whos gothe better dps </p><p>you cant count what one templars capable of as showing what all can do esspecialy since taht one templar is in perfect conditions with a perfect group setup </p></blockquote>   - "one templar is in perfect conditions with a perfect group" His group was not perfect. As stated, he did not have an illusionist, or a troubador, or the dps mod from a coercer.  - "you cant count what one templars capable of as showing what all can do" That is about as backward as you can get. You're saying that because he is good, he should not count? Riiiight... And here I thought we were comparing the capability of class types, not the abilities of Average Joe's. And as for both cleric types soloing a zone... If anyone who rolls a cleric wanted solo play ability, they should kick themselves on the butt, because that is definitely not what Templars or Inquisitors are designed for. It would simply be like comparing a tortoise and a snail. Regardless of who wins the race, both are slow.

[Spider]

<cite>Trinral wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>ok try this have a templar solo a zone and ahve a good melee inquis solo and lets see whos gothe better dps </p><p>you cant count what one templars capable of as showing what all can do esspecialy since taht one templar is in perfect conditions with a perfect group setup </p></blockquote>   - "one templar is in perfect conditions with a perfect group" His group was not perfect. As stated, he did not have an illusionist, or a troubador, or the dps mod from a coercer.  - "you cant count what one templars capable of as showing what all can do" That is about as backward as you can get. You're saying that because he is good, he should not count? Riiiight... And here I thought we were comparing the capability of class types, not the abilities of Average Joe's. And as for both cleric types soloing a zone... If anyone who rolls a cleric wanted solo play ability, they should kick themselves on the butt, because that is definitely not what Templars or Inquisitors are designed for. It would simply be like comparing a tortoise and a snail. Regardless of who wins the race, both are slow. </blockquote><p>wow your about as sharp as basketball arnt you </p><p>i was saying  you cant coulnt what one super geared raid templar in perfect gear  in a perfect situation is capable of  vs the average raider </p><p>secondly the comment about solo'ing ? hello is your brain even functioning ? </p><p>the comment about soloing a zone is to not about soloability its about marking dps without any other outside  assistance altering the outcome unfairly </p>

[graxnip]

spider, you make some valid points but you express them buried in insults and snips. Stop being so aggressive about your posts and more people will start respecting what you are saying man.

[Avirodar]

That or Spider does not like the facts that : 1) Highest Cleric DPS world wide = Templar. 2) Best heals between Clerics = Templar. Those two points did not bode well with his argument of the "uber" (or is that n00ber) Inquisitor DPS, validating "more DPS for lesser healing"? Not even close, as it is not true. So maybe, for Spiders sake, I will redo the list with one extra point. 1) Highest Cleric DPS world wide = Templar. 2) Best heals between Cleric archtypes = Templar. 3) Able to solo the trash in easy-con zones faster = Inquisitor. I mean wow, omg, you proved a huge point Spider! *worships the wisdom* Was that blunt enough? - We should still get Glory of Battle.

[Spider]

<cite>graxnip wrote:</cite><blockquote>spider, you make some valid points but you express them buried in insults and snips. Stop being so aggressive about your posts and more people will start respecting what you are saying man. </blockquote><p> I understnad what your saying bro but that little @$$[Removed for Content] trinral has been trash talking me since i started this game 8 months ago and when ever i proved him wrong on somethign it was " you dont know what your tallking aobu tcuz ur not 70 and you dont know what your talking aobut cuz ur not a raider </p><p>except oh wait now im  70 and im in teh primeir freeport raiding guild on my server  and my raiding is general ten times harder because we only have half the classes and have to deal with pvp on all contested mob runs but he still tries to dismiss what i say and attack me like im some child so forgive me if im a little agressive and insulting twards this  [Removed for Content] who has an overinflated self worth </p><p>id personaly love to buy him for what i know he's worth and sell him for what he THINKS he's worth </p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>Trinral wrote:</cite><blockquote>Err.. Don't people use fear immunity abilities, items and potions, along with arcane cure potions in PVP? The combinations of those, along with the high chance of root/fear breaking on any damage, along with the impact of the target having half decent resists has... Fear is only useful against people I would take no pride in beating, but I guess PVP is more about "whack a noob and run" than "be the best you can"? PS: Pagansaint - He did not have an illusionist, or a troubador.  Yup, neither.  Now do you understand, a little better, where I am coming from? (Just imagine if he did.) PPS: My proposition still stands. Glory of Battle is a proc very fitting for Inquisitors to have, moreso than Templars. I would like to see SOE give due consideration into giving this buff to Inquisitors. </blockquote>Yes, they do carry those. Still gives me a second or two extra, worst case. And that second or two extra beats a rare proc crap heal every [Removed for Content] time.

[Avirodar]

<cite>Spider wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understnad what your saying bro but that little @$$[I cannot control my vocabulary] trinral has been trash talking me since i started this game 8 months ago and when ever i proved him wrong on somethign it was " you dont know what your tallking aobu tcuz ur not 70 and you dont know what your talking aobut cuz ur not a raider <p>except oh wait now im  70 and im in teh primeir freeport raiding guild on my server  and my raiding is general ten times harder because we only have half the classes and have to deal with pvp on all contested mob runs but he still tries to dismiss what i say and attack me like im some child so forgive me if im a little agressive and insulting twards this  [Removed for Content] who has an overinflated self worth </p><p>id personaly love to buy him for what i know he's worth and sell him for what he THINKS he's worth </p></blockquote> Firstly, I suggest you learn how to count (If I recall, you have a spelling disorder, not a mathematical disorder?). 16/24 is not a half. There is 24 class types. Evil side raid forces miss : Templar, Illusionist, Monk, Pally, Ranger, Swashy, Mystic, Conj. Good side raids miss out on: Inq, Coercer, Bruiser, Assassin, Brig, SK, Defiler, Necro. The only thing an evil side raid force is missing, that is really worth noticing, is Templar. Good side misses out on Coercer, Bruiser, Brigand and Defiler.  Evil side raid forces for the win. Both are still clearly capable of content clearing. The PVP issue would make getting some contested mobs, a bit difficult, but it is zero excuse for the clearing of instance zones (and secluded content). The time it taken for zones like EH and MIS to be cleared on PVP servers, in comparison to the PVE servers, speaks for itself. And you said it yourself, you started a mere 8 months ago. You have been spouting dribble from day one, and think you know more about the class than any other Inquisitor in the world. Add to that the inferiority complex you have, and your refusal to concede even when clearly wrong, it makes for such a lovely combination. Yes, don't think I will forget about how you tried to argue that the epic crab in Enchanted Lands (Tier 4) would be as hard, if not harder than any of the EoF encounters, making your opinions just as valid as any one else. You say you are now in the premier raid guild on the Freeport side of your server. Congratulations. Has your guild killed Wuoshi? Mayong? Or what about Malkonis in FTH?  If the guild of which you are a junior member has failed to kill any of the queried content, it is a far stretch to call yourself a premier raid guild. I also counted how many level 70 characters the guild you are a part of, has (not counting people with the alt rank for obvious reasons). The number is 68. Max raid size is 24. So if a mere 66% of your guilds level 70's sign in, you have a full raid force to fight a mob, and barely shy of a full raid force of people to defend them.  But it is clearly evident by the armor worn by the higher ranking characters in your guild, PVP issues at contested mobs is not the true limiting factor of your guilds raiding ability. You make me have the opinion of you, that I have. No one else. You also have the ability to change the opinion I have of you. That may change when (or if) it becomes apparent you are becoming more experienced with the game. Until then...

[Sailormoon]

I am not sure if inquisitors need lotto heals, but inquisitors do have fewer tools to heal than other healers, while we don't have the best nukes, best debuffs among the healers.

[Norrsken]

I think another idea would be to make reactive heals only fire if the full heal of the reactive tick would be used, so it wouldnt go to waste, like they currently do.

[SacDaddy420]

I agree with Avirodar.

[Spider]

personaly id like to see reactives do what wards do  the unused portion of the reactive does a big heal at the end of the timer

[quasigenx]

<cite>Trinral wrote:</cite><blockquote>Spider wrote: Try Elrohn, 70 Templar, Nektulos Server. He's done over 2000 dps a number times, broken 1900's repeatedly. </blockquote> Why would a Templar have better spell based DPS than an Inquisitor? We have just as many spell based nukes. If we loaded up on spell crit gear and AAs, I don't see why we would not be able to do better DPS (due to better innate melee). Personally, I prefer melee DPS which takes less power and is easier to keep up while also healing. Also, for dueling it's much more effective due to high spell resists rates.

[Avirodar]

Inquisitors could break 1500 on the dps charts. <BEFORE> the EoF expansion was a part of the game, during regular KoS days. And before any of the new EoF gear... I myself got up to the mid 1400's a few times. The whole push by SOE in making Inquisitors "melee DPS" has done nothing for our personal output capacity for raiding/PVE. Inq's going for melee DPS have gone backward (in terms of self capacity), but our group nudging has gone up a touch. The DPS we -can- do has been more or less noobified, as in, it's easier for more people to do it, with a smaller gap between top end geared output, and common casual players output capacities. So what gives templars a boost over us at the current point? They can take EoF AA's to notably enhance their damage spells. Reuse timers on spells are much less than reuse on CA equivalents (but they do close to the same damage). There is no shortage of gear/effects that increase spell damage, which is largely useless to our more "predefined" playstyle. Our punishments suck for DPS, get pwned by wards, and the hate gain effects are far too small!! That there about sums it up. Short of a weapon, any junk gear with good str, there is not much a melee Inquisitor can do to increase our DPS, short of group setup. There is a lot a spell spec'd Templar can do, before group setup is a factor. I'd much rather have seen SOE put in more useful EOF AA options than the current piles of ****. Stuff like making the Triage line worth anything beside the final ability (ie: add healing enhancement AAs), MUCH BIGGER enhancements to punishment lines (they are far too small, they are a joke), CA equivalents that have equivalent reuse timers and/or better damage (for the Inq who does want to DPS hard), and some more serious enhancements to debuffing for the Inq who likes to be tactical.  But it seems SOE is not fond of giving Inquisitors worth while choices that would make us more truely choose our desired playstyle (ie: Pure healer,  DPSing, Utility, or Hybrid mixes). EoF was a joke, no polite way to put it, for Inquisitor's AA options. There is potential, but yea.. Thats about that anyway, I still stand by my belief that Inq's should also get Glory of Combat, and I would much rather we did not have to sacrifice anything to get it.

[Echgar]

A few of you seem intent on attacking, insulting and namecalling each other so I am afraid I need to close this thread.  As a reminder, you are welcome to debate the issues but do not let your disagreements with each other turn personal.