Holding Aggro

[Solaran_X]

Lately, I've been having trouble holding aggro on my Shadowknight (L70, 83 AAs, all Legendary+ <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=449391104" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">gear</a> - up-to-date except for Modinthalis replacing Brakzar's Cleaver), especially with Wizards, Warlocks, Monks, and Bruisers in my group (usually fine in other situations). My group taunt (Sacrilege) is Master II. Single taunt (Insidious Promise) is Adept III. Death March is Adept III. Venomous Slam is Adept III. Nefarious Caress is Adept III. My KoS AAs (41/50) are Base 1, STA 4/4/8 and INT 4/4/8/8 (23% Melee Crit, 69% Spell Crit, 63% Heal Crit). My EoF AAs (42/50) are  [Hate Tree] 5/5 Enhance: Dark Caress, 3/3 Enhance: Shriek of Terror II, 3/3 Enhance: Insidious Promise, 5/5 Enhance: Venomous Slam, 4/5 Enhance: Death March, 1/1 Siphon Hate [Reaving Tree] 5/5 Enhance: Twisted Aura, 5/5 Enhance: Putrid Coil, 5/5 Leech Touch, 5/5 Enhance: Drain Vitae, 1/1 Reaver. Any suggestions on how to balance my AAs to hold aggro better? Or are we just doomed to have trouble with those four above mentioned classes in our groups?

[Controlor]

First things first. Get rid of the 8 into Crit heals. They do NOTHING for a SK (its ment to balance paladins with your heal crits being effected by spell crit). Go down either 448 into str or agi line (Expecially agi line with the upcoming kos revamp). Wizards / Warlocks / Rangers tend to be classes that if they dont watch their own agro will grab from any tank (sept paladins). So its part on them as they may be nuking a bit much and can scale back on it. With Monks / Bruisers ALWAYS check their buffs. I have had many times a bruiser have pummel up. They both have buffs that give them a chance to taunt/dmg for every swing. If this is up this means they are taunting against you as is, and they should remove the buff. If they want to keep it up religate them to off tank duties. Have them deal with adds whether part of the group encounter or a seperate group add. Just a few sugestions tho.

[Korpo]

Also remember that SKs generate a lot of their hate via their reactive taunt buff, so have your groupmates hold off a few seconds before they let loose with the big guns, so the mobs can hit you once or twice. Don't be afraid to FD whoever pulls agro. It gets you hate back right away AND teaches them a valuable lesson about playing nice.

[Kelkirra]

I second the notion on getting rid of the heal crits ^.^  Another issue may be the lack of communication in the group. In both groups and raids, proper communication is KEY to maintaing agro. Make sure that your group is letting you know when the big guns are coming out so you can compensate with some burst agro and be able to have HT/Rescue/FD/DM ready in case things go a bit sour. I could tell you to make sure that your ward is always on so you're getting the extra agro, but I think someone covered that already as well ^.^

[Beldin_]

Vaeamdar@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>My group taunt (Sacrilege) is Master II. Single taunt (Insidious Promise) is Adept III. Death March is Adept III. Venomous Slam is Adept III. Nefarious Caress is Adept III. </blockquote>What about your damage-spells ? Are they also at least Adept 3 or better Master 1 ? Taunts are only one part of the aggro, the other part is to dish out as max damage as you can.Against Warlocks you normally should only have problems on group encounter, so make sure to dish out first all your AoEs. Wizards .. if they use Manaburn too early and the mob doesn't die you mostly need rescue. Bruisers .. its hard to hold aggro if they use knockout-combination, however .. a bruiser should be able to take some hits <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Brigants are also a problem when they use the right double-up combo. However .. good players know when to use that styles and normally don't pull aggro before the mob is nearly dead <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kaishod]

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote> Don't be afraid to FD whoever pulls agro. It gets you hate back right away AND teaches them a valuable lesson about playing nice. </blockquote><p> ALWAYS nice since you can FD through a mob, lol... its nice hearing in vent how many ppl think the mob just wiped em, [Removed for Content]... </p><p>Don't know if my macro tell to them is going to work since it's </p><p>/tell %t I just made you eat dirt, maybe to get agg back, maybe just to see you eat dirt... lol.... hit X to cancel and get back into the fight!</p><p>any thoughts on this?  Or would I have to target them?</p><p> Sorry, didn't mean to jack the post with a ?</p><p>As far as holding aggro... I've foundthat the procs help, so make sure something procs from yoru weapons, if even an adornment.  Blessing helps, Interced followed by taunt helps, Smite also helps with only 4 points into it since it puts out a good bit of dmg, 772 is the max listed... just make a macro for it to equip symbol, smite, taunt... </p><p>Also, make sure Nefarious Caress is at least a3 and some points into it in your SK line... nice threat proc... also the Everlasting Hunger and Twisted Aura, should be at least a3 to make sure every time you get hit its hitting them back.</p><p>Also, figure out a routine in pulling to generate hate... even make a hot key to tell people when they can attack so you have enough hate built up.</p><p>My pull routine:</p><p>Make sure Grave blessing is up... </p><p>Announce pulling, </p><p>either body pull or Abominable Wrath pull followed by a procc'd arrow and skelly pet</p><p>Insiious promise (taunt)</p><p>Sacrilege</p><p>Shield Bash</p><p>Tell everyone all in</p><p>Grave Blessing</p><p>Thats my normal routine and havent had many probs lately... when you do fd someone or use intercede always follow up with your taunts</p>

[spudsmckenzie2]

<p>use your unending misery spell along with your taunts. it doesnt list any kind of taunt factor but it pisses the mobs off good. just remember its aoe</p><p>-alex</p>

[MaCloud1032]

<p>tell the bruiser to turn off rumble</p>

[Kazander13]

Good ideas from everyone here, my thought is also spell order.  Remember your group taunt lowers your opponents disease resists by a good amount.  This means every other damage spell that others here suggest you have at a high skill level will do even more damage which in turn generate more hate.  Sometimes the difference in who has aggro is merely a few points, but those few points could have left it on you.  Make sure you time your DoT's early so they generate damage the way they were intended.  If your having trouble early on you may want to use Abominable wrath and other DD's to set the aggro in first an dthen switch, it really all depends on the pace and makeupof your group.  Play around a bit when you get a new group composition and see what works. 

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>This might help a little bit...it's an excerpt from a guide I made for a new SK a long time ago...</p><p>"Use your dammge shield pre-pull if possible (and refresh it as often as possible), lead with your largest Upfront Hate taunt first generally (sacrilege line group taunt...which also debuffs disease to increase our dammage and hate), then cycle through your hate over time ones. Follow up with your bigger dammage, faster hits first as well your fastest AOE dot if it's safe to use it (like Misery line spells are fast cast). DoT attacks would follow (this is contrary to most Dotters (like Necros etc.) who will lead with the DoTs earlier to max dammage over an encounter, and not rip aggro early). SKs need to generate hate fast using a little extra dammage early to bridge the gap that the hate over time fills in shortly therafter. A few important points...1) Deathmarch is a huge aggro boost and phenomenal for locking aggro early and negating mob stuns etc. off of pulls. It is also great as an AOE rescue with a large range. If you are solid with aggro, it's great to hold until the near death of one from a multi-mob...you get a double proc. 2) Your pet is basically the largest dot in your arsenal once it's upgraded, it can interrupt mobs as well. Since it has a slowish cast, it's often good to cast at the end of taunt cycle...and preferably right after any mobs unleash AOEs. That will max it's dammage (since it can be killed)...and let you concentrate a bit more often on debuffs and shields etc, and allow you a little less rapid attack spamming. 3) SKs are power hogs...once you get your mana tap, use it frequently...it's a fast cast also. SK's hate from taunts alone kicks in later than most tanks with more upfront aggro taunts, so that's the main reason to generally follow the sequence above....it pumps up dammage and hate early while the HoTs kick in. Besides sacrilege, we have the caress line pumping out small amounts of hate with every hit; shield bash line with a fair amount upfront then HoT; promise line with HoT (single target); rescue (which if I remember right, is a higher hate amount than non-crusaders); and the mother of all taunts...deathmarch."</p><p>This was mostly written pre-EoF...hmm..possibly pre-AA even, but there is a few general things in there that should help anyway. Aggro transfer classes help as well of course <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Solaran_X]

Shalla@Valor wrote: <blockquote>Vaeamdar@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>My group taunt (Sacrilege) is Master II. Single taunt (Insidious Promise) is Adept III. Death March is Adept III. Venomous Slam is Adept III. Nefarious Caress is Adept III. </blockquote>What about your damage-spells ? Are they also at least Adept 3 or better Master 1 ? Taunts are only one part of the aggro, the other part is to dish out as max damage as you can.Against Warlocks you normally should only have problems on group encounter, so make sure to dish out first all your AoEs. Wizards .. if they use Manaburn too early and the mob doesn't die you mostly need rescue. Bruisers .. its hard to hold aggro if they use knockout-combination, however .. a bruiser should be able to take some hits <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Brigants are also a problem when they use the right double-up combo. However .. good players know when to use that styles and normally don't pull aggro before the mob is nearly dead <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>First, I respecced my AAs so my KOS is Base 1, STR 4/4, STA 4/4/8, and INT 4/4/8. Next 8 AAs are going into Haste. All my spells are Adept III or better, with the exception of Intercede (which I have the loam for...just waiting for my Alchie to log on). All my damage spells, buffs, Rescue, debuffs, etc., etc. are Ad3 or better. I usually pull en masse, with a Sacrilege on the largest group on pull and a Death March to establish a nice load of aggro. I then drop all four (or three if Doom Judgment is down) PBAoEs and maybe Pestilence. I usually cast my Blessing spell after that, and then begin cycling through my CAs and Spells for damage and taunt as Insidious Promise and Sacrilege are available. PBAoEs are cycled as they become available. What order should I do my CAs and spells to maintain the best aggro?

[Eluzay]

Vaeamdar@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Lately, I've been having trouble holding aggro on my Shadowknight (L70, 83 AAs, all Legendary+ <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/characters/character_profile.vm?characterId=449391104" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">gear</a> - up-to-date except for Modinthalis replacing Brakzar's Cleaver), especially with Wizards, Warlocks, Monks, and Bruisers in my group (usually fine in other situations). My group taunt (Sacrilege) is Master II. Single taunt (Insidious Promise) is Adept III. Death March is Adept III. Venomous Slam is Adept III. Nefarious Caress is Adept III. My KoS AAs (41/50) are Base 1, STA 4/4/8 and INT 4/4/8/8 (23% Melee Crit, 69% Spell Crit, 63% Heal Crit). My EoF AAs (42/50) are  [Hate Tree] 5/5 Enhance: Dark Caress, 3/3 Enhance: Shriek of Terror II, 3/3 Enhance: Insidious Promise, 5/5 Enhance: Venomous Slam, 4/5 Enhance: Death March, 1/1 Siphon Hate [Reaving Tree] 5/5 Enhance: Twisted Aura, 5/5 Enhance: Putrid Coil, 5/5 Leech Touch, 5/5 Enhance: Drain Vitae, 1/1 Reaver. Any suggestions on how to balance my AAs to hold aggro better? Or are we just doomed to have trouble with those four above mentioned classes in our groups? </blockquote> spell order is very important, the thing that makes sk agro hard is hate over time... pretty much all of our taunts have it, our hate is back loaded.  OPEN with every taunt you have, and personally i like the str line for the extra dps.  You have to dps and DONT cast blessing in groups with sufficient healing.  This kills your agro completely because that 2 second cast will probably take 3-5 seconds to go off with mobs beating you. also not mentioned, pestilance generates a pretty [Removed for Content] good amount of hate. Finally if you have a particular person causing agro issues send them a tell to slowly count to 5 before they begin their fight, it allows your HOT (hate over time) to build somewhat... and always cast any taunt whenever you can (talking raid tanking here and good 6 mans) agro is a team sport, and of you have someone that is going to be a dps [Removed for Content] because they like to see that high number there is nothing you can do short of letting them die (and get bad dps number) or fiegn them.

[G1Joe]

<p>Easiest way I have found is to inform everyone before we start the raid that I AM AN SK and that my hate works differently to other Tanks and for them ti wind up their dps rather than just dump. This usually works after the first wipe.</p><p>Pretty much echo what ssslick said about casting order in the early stages of a pull just conc on building hate avoid spells with long cast times imo like death circle and recasting GB.</p>

[Ramius613]

<p>As a monk wandering through the boards (It's too depressing on my own board <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).  I will suggest making sure that the monk has Dragon Advance turned off.  If he has Mongoose Stance (EoF AA) have him put that up instead. Also if he has AA points put into his Tranquil Vision, have him put it on you.  This benefits you 2 fold. First if he has the AA points in it, he will transfer 5% of his hate to you.  Second, you gain his avoidance, against 50%ish of attacks.  An important thing to note, is that Tranquil Vision will cancel out your mit buff that you give to someone else(sorry I don't know the name, but my roommate is always [I cannot control my vocabulary] that his keeps disappearing <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p> Just a monk's thoughts</p>

[Beldin_]

Vaeamdar@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote> I usually pull en masse, with a Sacrilege on the largest group on pull and a Death March to establish a nice load of aggro. I then drop all four (or three if Doom Judgment is down) PBAoEs and maybe Pestilence. I usually cast my Blessing spell after that, and then begin cycling through my CAs and Spells for damage and taunt as Insidious Promise and Sacrilege are available. PBAoEs are cycled as they become available. What order should I do my CAs and spells to maintain the best aggro? </blockquote><p>You should cast blessing before the pull, because thats always a little extra initial aggro. Also if you pull more then one group, use misery before Death March, because it seems that the aggro of DM only works on monsters that you have already engaged. </p><p>I normally precast blessing, then start with a quick HO with coil/agony and group-taunt followed by single taunt, after that DM, misery, DM (if more encounters) , circle, pestilence, hammerground, tap veins. </p>

[Crowe]

<cite>Kaishodan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Korpo wrote: <p>/tell %t I just made you eat dirt, maybe to get agg back, maybe just to see you eat dirt... lol.... hit X to cancel and get back into the fight!</p></blockquote>I like it. I just would cut out the part about "hit x to cancel" - you may need a few extra seconds to fully assume aggo.... at least that's my argument for it.  <img src="/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Wildmage]

I've never liked the concept of DPS classes going all out right off the bat to begin with in a battle, in EQ1 when I was playing the rule of thumb was for casters to hold off on nuking till the mob was at half hp.   Even In EQ2 I prefer to let the meleers knock at least half a bubble to a whole bubble off the mob before I really start nuking, when playing my casters.

[Grimfort]

<p>I had the exact same problem with a mage, bruiser and a brig I often group with. When you are in a group as such, dont even bother trying to get any damage done to the mobs, just sit and aggro. They are more then enough DPS, and you arent really doing your job properly. Remember you have 2 aoes (great for getting aggro on the mobs that are not your current target before you switch to them), 2 group/target taunts as well as the shield bash. This is my usual list after the initial pull:</p><p>Sacrelige</p><p>Insidious Promise</p><p>Venomous Slam</p><p>Death Circle</p><p>Unending Misery</p><p>Tap Veins (great at this time as you are most likely down on health as well)</p><p>Keep cycling them when they are up, and you shouldnt loose agro unless a lifeburn or the like comes in. Then you use the DM that you have been saving up when this happens. If someone constantly gets agro even after this (and wont listen to reason), then dont try to get it back (its nigh impossible anyway), let them take the hits, switch to DPS instead. A few deaths like this will soon calm them down <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p>Being buffed as tank means you should still be able to pull off decent DPS as well. Just use your normal attacks during the timer period of your taunts, Ive pulled 1k average over whole zones as MT in a X2 for example. I normally stick to Offensive as well in instances unless its something like Unrest, as the extra dmg you do also helps with the aggro.</p><p>Its a hard lesson to learn (I hate doing it btw), and often boring, but just spamming agro buttons, no Sacrament/blessings/anything that takes longer than a second to cast. If you try and do a few CAs and leave off the agro spells for even 4-5 seconds you lose it real quick. O as a final note, get everyone who cant to transfer hate, and dont forget the AA end line spec of giving 3% of the groups agro to yourself, which currently I dont have).</p>

[chily]

<p>I normaly do ... </p><p>on single target's:</p><p>before i pull if i have the chance too : Grave Blessing (on me fo shizzle) Sacrilege Pariah's Brand or Smash (to start melee attack) Siphon Might ( str debuff on mob, normaly i pull some named with siphon&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Abominable Anger Abominable Wrath Putrid Coil on encounter's (or room pulls) : Sacrilege Despoil Death march Unending Misery Death Circle Tap Veins If the dps is right pestilence too, to chain dot the adds without recasting it</p>

[Kaishod]

<p>another thing I've found that helps alot in regaining aggro though couldn't show you any numbers on it... just know it works... helps when DM, rescue, and FD are down</p><p>When:  </p><p>Mr/Mrs Iwannablast takes aggro is normally at a distance of more then 5m, your bow works (ranged icon lights up)</p><p>I use an imbued bow since it has a nice proc and since I don't have to use it much... </p><p>click ranged to fire arrows,</p><p>intercede to take their dmg, plus tends to work as a taunt... /shrug,</p><p>sacrilege or insidious... either taunt works at quite a distance,</p><p>cast blessing thru the target onto them... if you all ready gained aggro before this, it casts on you.  If not, it casts on them and seems to work the same way when someone casts a ward on you right before you pull,  and they grab aggro, lol</p><p>If DM, rescue, and FD are still down and still don't have aggro, at least you're still taking some of the dmg meant for them as well as warding with your blessing.  </p><p>If they start taking a beating, don't forget about your HT and even your Enemy Master procs... anything helps.  Now, you also know who to put your Devious Evasion on, if the healer never takes agg, lol... </p><p>One good idea for named mobs you all rdy know are going to be a problem (sometimes find this out after a wipe or two), don't be afraid to use your rescue, DM, and HT right off the bat to ensure you keep it.</p>