Slower delays = better?

[mattmandude]

I'm trying to figure out why this would be the case if it is indeed true. Right now I'm using Fists of Pain, and Bonetooth skewer (which both have fast delay times), and I'm hoping that I don't need to replace them with Bashing and Marr's Fist =/ -Thanks

[Psychotic One]

<p>Someone correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of it is simply this.</p><p> We can generate a massive pool of haste on our own lowering our weapon speeds more than half.  This makes slower weapons more desired cause you can take a 4 second delayed weapon down to 2 or less while keeping its ultra high damage.  So rather than swing faster for less damage we can swing "normally" for greater damage so 2.5 delay weapons become pretty powerful in monk hands rather than bruisers cause our natural haste makes them swing really really fast.</p><p>*edit*</p><p>not to say fast weapons are bad.  Depending on the group I prefer faster weapons like FoP and Bonetooth.  And when a dirge used CaC not many classes can proc it as fast as us with bonetooth in main hand at max haste.</p>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Slower delay weapons won't be interupted by your CAs as much. Since casting a CA takes 0.5s and there's a 0.5s cooldown afterwards... your autoattack will automatically be queued up and waiting until just before your next CA when chaining, so if it's faster than 1s delay, it will be bumped up to 1s while chaining. Haste is haste.. it will have the same effect on regular autoattack no matter the speed of the weapon. You will increase the damage by the same factor, whether it's 4s or 1.6s. However, that 1.6s weapon being reduced to say.. 0.7s after haste, will have to wait to 1s while you chain your CAs. The "perfect" delay is getting down to 1s or 2s (or just under, like 0.9s and 1.9s), at your customary haste, so that it meshes with Chaining your CAs and you don't lose out on potential damage. The last thing is... for Tanking, having a fast weapon means doing a LOT of attacks. Each attack has a chance at being riposted. Ripostes do flat damage when they go off.. and with Epics and high level Heroic Named, they can be huge damage. So the less attacks you do overall, the less ripostes could happen and bring you down. Hence why many Brawlers carry around a long delay twohander, so they do half the attacks on a slower delay... but for similar overall damage. Less procs and less adornements, but hey.. I consider less ripostes worth the proc/adornement cost. In the end though, if you run into a high DR weapon, it'll probably function better than a lower DR weapon that meshes with your CAs better. We aren't talking about that huge a difference in damage... but if you can tweak your haste to make your weapons the perfect delay, that's when you are golden.

[Junaru]

Are we in fact SURE the cool down stops auto attacks? I'll have to check my logs but I don't think it does. I know casting does but I think cool downs are effect the timing between CA's not auto attacks. Also ripostes were changes a while ago. two hand weapons will have a great chance to riposte then DW weapons for this very reason. I forget which GU is was but I do remember them changing that. And while we are at it. I doubt anyone can confirm it but does Storm Stance proc 50% of the time on each swing or is it subject to the proc timing of 3 seconds? There is no log message for it so I doubt anyone knows for sure other then a dev. But no where in the skill description does it say anything like "Will proc 1.8 times per minute" like other CA/Weapons/Procs.

[Kota]

at one point it did say it will proc X amount of time per minute so i'm guessing it's regulated. also you are correct about ripostes.  they changed that back in the DoF era, because ppl were moving away from dw.  this is about the same time ppl figured out you could do much more dmg with a 2hander, so they bumped dw wpn ratings. i have no idea about 'cooldown' or whatever you called it.  i do know that when i'm chain que'ing attacks, such as when i'm using the combo aa, i still see auto atk damage between ca's.  as far as slow vs fast i don't know.  every time i try to think about it, it turns into a huge equation and my brain starts to melt.

[Nerill]

<cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote>Are we in fact SURE the cool down stops auto attacks? I'll have to check my logs but I don't think it does. I know casting does but I think cool downs are effect the timing between CA's not auto attacks. </blockquote>This is actually a very valid question. As Kota stated, I too see autoattack damage even when chaining CAs. However, I still try to pause .1 - .2 seconds between CAs just to be sure. However, if I am feeling lazy I just chain cast my CAs and wait for the re-fresh timers to reset. I see no noticeable difference in my DPS either way though. /shrug

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

<p>I too once thought that autoattacks went off during the recovery time (cooldown), however I was corrected a while back by those that have abilities that have extra long recovery times... 7s recovery timer, and no autoattack going off for that duration.</p><p>What happens is the autoattack is sort of queue'd up while your CA is being cast, and then the recovery time. Then, before the next CA gets a chance to go off and start casting, autoattack squeezes in.</p><p>If you were to look at autoattack like a CA... it has no cast time, no recovery time, and only a delay. And it can queue up regardless of CA's or Spells already queue'd.</p>

[Nokrahs]

I would like to add another question regarding delays/procs in here. Just got that Unrest Cloak (Garanel's Mantle) which grants me a dd/heal proc on a 1.8/Min Timer. The description also tells me, the Main Hand is used in the the Proc Calculation. My currents weapons (Fists of Pain / Bashing) are different in their delay and procrate. Which weapon would be the better choice for the main hand? the faster one with lower procrate or the slower one? thanks in advance for any answer to puzzle this out. Nok

[Cirth_Beer]

<cite>Nokrahs wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would like to add another question regarding delays/procs in here. Just got that Unrest Cloak (Garanel's Mantle) which grants me a dd/heal proc on a 1.8/Min Timer. The description also tells me, the Main Hand is used in the the Proc Calculation. My currents weapons (Fists of Pain / Bashing) are different in their delay and procrate. Which weapon would be the better choice for the main hand? the faster one with lower procrate or the slower one? thanks in advance for any answer to puzzle this out. Nok </blockquote>It has been standardized a slow weapon will proc more often because it will hit less (and a fast weap will proc less because it will hit more) so on a 5 min fight you should see the same number of proc whatever the weapon is.

[Nokrahs]

thanks to you for the information. guess it really don't matter at all which weapon I pick for the Mainhand. cheers, Nok