So, you're keeping HT and Decap.. well how about adding..

[Lowell_high]

<p>So, if these classes are not having their damage toned down how about adding more power to healers "instants."</p><p>Shadowknights and Assasins have these instant incredibly high damaging combat attacks.  Why don't you give healers the chance to atleast counter these attacks? Add more stronger heals, wards, and reactives to our <b>single</b> (not group) 15 minute instant defense buffs.</p><p>Right now, Shaman instant wards only give about 1300, Druids instants only heal 700ish, and Im not sure about Clerics, but im sure its low.</p><p>SK and Assasin can do 4k-6k damage instantly depending on the type of person it is used on.  Allow the healers to counter the attack by scaling their single target instants up to be equal to these attacks in pvp only..</p><p>Just a thought.</p>

[Borias]

Yes, because clearly healers need more than they have.

[EQ2Playa432]

Well scouts clearly don't need more...

[Vilesummon]

Borias@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Yes, because clearly healers need more than they have.</blockquote>Have to agree with him here, out of all classes, healers are the ones that should really be asking for the least...or maybe nothing.  I already have a [Removed for Content] fear of the servers being overrun with the druids yet again. I have seen my son fight for over 20 minutes with his mystic...and that is pre GU. Best way to counter the SK/ASSASSIN issue is to group w/ a tracker....then you know that is coming.

[Norrsken]

Vilesummon@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Borias@Venekor wrote: <blockquote>Yes, because clearly healers need more than they have.</blockquote>Have to agree with him here, out of all classes, healers are the ones that should really be asking for the least...or maybe nothing.  I already have a [I cannot control my vocabulary] fear of the servers being overrun with the druids yet again. I have seen my son fight for over 20 minutes with his mystic...and that is pre GU. Best way to counter the SK/ASSASSIN issue is to group w/ a tracker....then you know that is coming. </blockquote>I've had a 45+ minute fight with my sk. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> That guy actually ate HT 3 times in the same fight. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Aeralik]

You have a few things going on in this update.  First you have a general reduction in damage at higher levels.  This means all damage is reduced on melee attacks, spells, etc much like  it is now but just by a larger amount.  I also altered a number of spells to have lower damage or different effects.  So when it comes to HT, decap, etc and based on feedback it just seems the combination took it too far reduction wise.  In the end though they will come out at lower damage just not to the extreme lows you see now.  So to clarify I am just letting the global damage reductions do more of the work rather than hitting them twice for a large amount. 

[Lowell_high]

<p>From what I hear they are keeping these attacks the same while cutting heals in half.  So, I agree with Kalian when he says scouts clearly don't need more. =)</p>

[Aeralik]

A level 70 heal is set to have 10% further reduction than what is on live right now.  So they are nowhere near cut in half <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 

[Lowell_high]

While I have your attention, can we get a response on perma immunity?  Is it being review at all and should we except some type of change within the future?  Is it atleast on the horizon? =)

[Lowell_high]

Also, if you keep these high damage attacks why not remove the ability to crit on them?

[sundrop]

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>A level 70 heal is set to have 10% further reduction than what is on live right now.  So they are nowhere near cut in half <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </blockquote> Ok, so 10% reduction on heals, HT and Decap were reduced horribly on Test. However your complaints from fellow SOE employee's whom play these toons made you decide to return HT and Decap back to around what is live right now? (oh wait a global reduction, so eh 5% reduction to HT) So global reductions will make this battle appear to last longer? How so? Implying HT will do 90% damage as apposed to 100% <img src="/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So will our battles last longer? Yep, just make sure a scout is in your group and when you all spot an SK.....Run like carebears. <b>Im not saying its your fault</b> <b>Aeralik. Im just blaming you! </b>

[orehn]

Was HT really that overpowered to begin with?  I always considered Harm Touch, Decap, ect. as adding another element of risk into the game. I do feel that insta-heals should be buffed a bit, or at least not be reduced with this latest update; just because they're on the same 15 minute timer as HT and decap.

[Krokous]

ppl complain here about lvl 20 HT, in t7 where ppl have resists, lvl 62 PT doesnt do THAT much

[Lowell_high]

I've seen HT crit for over 6k with 5k resist.

[Shinnar]

decapitate deals some 2000 damage to a clothy on test, just tried it yesterday.... they can survive combo of 3 highest attack (decap, jugular, deadly) with no problem and have time to pop manashield or mezz... resists were almost none what i have seen, so casters can celebrate.... they can kill even healers with no problem, because they dont resist everything anymore.....

[Radigazt]

<cite>Shinnar wrote:</cite><blockquote>decapitate deals some 2000 damage to a clothy on test, just tried it yesterday.... they can survive combo of 3 highest attack (decap, jugular, deadly) with no problem and have time to pop manashield or mezz... resists were almost none what i have seen, so casters can celebrate.... they can kill even healers with no problem, because they dont resist everything anymore.....</blockquote><p> You seem unhappy that a caster can survive your 3 big hitters, but how long does it take you to cast all 3?  I'm guessing that's 0.5 seconds for each combat art, and even assuming you needed to re-enter Stealth each time that's a maximum of 2.5 seconds.  If any of them gets interrupted that's a delay of 0.5 seconds, so at worst that's 3 seconds.  Ice Comet alone has a 4 second cast, and a single interrupt (from an interrupt, taunt, damage interrupt, stun, etc.) can stretch that out to as long as 7.5 seconds.  Then there's the problem that you may resist it ... causing another recast.  I'd say that  you're putting out plenty of damage in a short time frame ... and scouts have far more survivability than the mage.  Fusion is a 5 second cast time and it has a very tight conic component.  </p><p>IMHO, the PvP "cone" of Fusion and Rift should be 120 degrees in front of the sorcerer and have a range of 25 meters.  Then the cast time would make it viable.  As it is, really you need an enchanter to set up your victim, which isn't very likely in most PvP groups.  </p><p>As for HT and Decap ... they do too much damage.  I'm all for changing the recast timers down to something managable in PvP, like 5 minutes or even 3 minutes, but as it is, we'll continue to see llamas that HT then camp for 15 minutes until it's up ... not really playing their class, but rather leaning heavily on the HT/Decap crutch for infamy.  Blech.  Play the game.  </p>

[Eluzay]

Jubilee@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>I've seen HT crit for over 6k with 5k resist.</blockquote> hey jub <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> long time no see! Let me start with saying PT in T7 is primarily used in one of two ways by decent SK's 1) emergency heal (1300 points if you have reaver) 2) kill a runner (wouldnt be affected much by a nerf because people dont run with 2k or more hp) I personally in offensive mode am around 690 int (over 800 in a group with fury etc...) I have my HT mastered and I dont believe 6k hit with 5k resists darlin sorry.  A decent sk will debuff your resists by almost 1000 at level 70 fyi before PT is applied.   The fact of the matter is that blessings and reaver are an SK's bread and butter.  With all the other Big hits getting knocked I had no issue with reduction in HT damage as long as they left reaver healing alone. Why they put it back I think is because it is on a very long timer. The thing that is going to give a boost to sk's is global dps lowering... which makes my healing mana worth that much more. I wont complain that they are not changin it but try to find a post where I complained about the nerf! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> in the end Sk is getting a leg up with the changes, and it has nothing to do with HT. HT's ability is highly over exagerated and not backed up with screenies.  PT is brutal, I will not argue, but it is not nearly as brutal as most say. VS a person geared well (7k is the start of good resists, not 5 fyi <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) it is not the show stopper that people imply.

[lavasoul]

PT does do high damage when it crit which most crusader will have their spell crit to 68%. I'm a paladin and my disease resist when I'm out pvping is 5k or more and a few times I get kill by PT with crit that range from 5k to mid 6k. If the PT didnt crit then it would do a moderate damage of around 2k-4k. For a plate tank having 5k disease resist and 9.2k hp and getting kill with PT and having abit over 50% health is brutal. Not sure why PT isn't get toned down while some other big hitting spells are.

[Tatate]

How about adding a [Dumb post filter] system into the forums :p

[Tatate]

Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>PT does do high damage when it crit which most crusader will have their spell crit to 68%. I'm a paladin and my disease resist when I'm out pvping is 5k or more and a few times I get kill by PT with crit that range from 5k to mid 6k. If the PT didnt crit then it would do a moderate damage of around 2k-4k. For a plate tank having 5k disease resist and 9.2k hp and getting kill with PT and having abit over 50% health is brutal. Not sure why PT isn't get toned down while some other big hitting spells are. </blockquote><p>Maybe the other classes with big hitting spells are made up mostly of other big hitting spells?</p>

[Eluzay]

Abel@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>PT does do high damage when it crit which most crusader will have their spell crit to 68%. I'm a paladin and my disease resist when I'm out pvping is 5k or more and a few times I get kill by PT with crit that range from 5k to mid 6k. If the PT didnt crit then it would do a moderate damage of around 2k-4k. For a plate tank having 5k disease resist and 9.2k hp and getting kill with PT and having abit over 50% health is brutal. Not sure why PT isn't get toned down while some other big hitting spells are. </blockquote> 5k disease is  unacceptable tbh, and you are probably runnin closer to 4k after debuff, I dont believe the mid 6k number you throw out fyi. Crits only add 30% to damage not 100 or 50... With 636 int Master I PT hits for 3679-6131 currently and with 4331 disease ressist (around what you would have if you were debuffed with 5k resists) you would absorb 56.4% of the damage from a level 70 opponent. that is 1604-2673 damage, with crits running up around 3475 at 130% damge. The only thing i cant prove is the 130%, i got the 30% for crits a long time ago and cant remember where. If someone could verify or show my where other info on crits is I would be happy to revise my opinion. 4k seems about right to me from just using the skill with my 636 int. And yes I cirt 70% of the time (68% from AA and 2% from gear) If you are T7 you should gear up to at least 6k resists, if not 7k vs your worst types.  I have zero eof raid gear, only a couple kos relic and my resists run in the 6-7k range.

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>You have a few things going on in this update.  First you have a general reduction in damage at higher levels.  This means all damage is reduced on melee attacks, spells, etc much like  it is now but just by a larger amount.  I also altered a number of spells to have lower damage or different effects.  So when it comes to HT, decap, etc and based on feedback it just seems the combination took it too far reduction wise.  In the end though they will come out at lower damage just not to the extreme lows you see now.  So to clarify I am just letting the global damage reductions do more of the work rather than hitting them twice for a large amount.  </blockquote> So keeping scouts the same and nerfing healers so scouts can now kill everyone no problem, you have got to be bleeping kidding me.

[CresentBlade]

<cite>Krokous wrote:</cite><blockquote>ppl complain here about lvl 20 HT, in t7 where ppl have resists, lvl 62 PT doesnt do THAT much </blockquote>Its mainly all the level locking people crying about HT, level up real pvp doesnt begin till 40+

[Lowell_high]

Um as far as I know right now, your resists don't mitagate damage - its chance to resist a spell.  Otherwise what your saying without resists these spells would be doing 60% more damage?  (which is usually the max scale you can achieve without seeing diminishing returns) . Either way I don't agree with these spells being kept the same - however if they are why not give healer casters the opposite effect?

[Eluzay]

Jubilee@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Um as far as I know right now, your resists don't mitagate damage - its chance to resist a spell.  Otherwise what your saying without resists these spells would be doing 60% more damage?  (which is usually the max scale you can achieve without seeing diminishing returns) . Either way I don't agree with these spells being kept the same - however if they are why not give healer casters the opposite effect?</blockquote>resists definitely mitigate, there is no question in my mind of that. Go ahead and test damages naked and resisted up if you dont believe as for the 160% vs the 130, like i said I was not sure, if it was 160 it would be  4276 damage wich is, like I said, about 4k damage for a crit, just slightly higher than lower of that estimate. As far as I understand it with crits they are applied 30% onto the base damage, and I would love for someone to point me at the information so that I could verify it. I like numbers <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> . 6k crit with someone having 5k resists? dont believe it. anyway, at the moment many people have issue with healers, I luckily have enough healer in me to compete with them, battle of theblue bar. with a global dps reduction and only a slight (10%) heal reduction I think druids will come out smelling like a rose. We have fought a few times, and I have won most (well not when there was more than one of you) but I didnt use HT to take you down ever I do believe.  Just blessings and swinging... only nub sk's rely on PT, for me it is just a heal. When you and that scout were fighting me (great fight) in loping and I PT'd the scout it was for the heal, not to take him out. If I had an extra 500 power i would have won, and PT had nothing to do with the fight, just sucked a bit more of your mana to heal him back up.  I lost that mana war hehe.

[Lowell_high]

According to LU 36 they mitigate, but before as its always has been I don't believe they ever have  -  otherwise a 6K HT crit would of normally resulted in almost 10K if the person had 0 resists?  The PVP scale doesn't even allow that much and I doubt a crit would give more than 60% (which is about max resist for anyone)  If you don't believe in a 6K crit ask Gnarkill, he's done it plenty of times.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

<cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krokous wrote:</cite><blockquote>ppl complain here about lvl 20 HT, in t7 where ppl have resists, lvl 62 PT doesnt do THAT much </blockquote>Its mainly all the level locking people crying about HT, level up real pvp doesnt begin till 40+ </blockquote> Cresent my impression from Krokous post is that the whining about HT should be disregarded BECAUSE at higher levels with better resists dont do that much.  And just to put it out there my resists aren't that great and I have lived through 2 consecutive ht's from exiled sk's...so personally, I have a VERY hard time trying to sympathize with the criers.  Same exact scenario on my ranger back in the day, HT never one shotted me. 

[lavasoul]

The Devs should test this out more then if numbers isn't matching up from one player to another. Those time I get HT for that high are all in group PVP. Maybe the Devs should look at HT in group PVP since most of the changes are to make fight last longer in groups. I don't mind if they change it so HT does less damage and heal for more if HT is really use for heals only as you said.

[CresentBlade]

Ratfacekilla@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>CresentBlade wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krokous wrote:</cite><blockquote>ppl complain here about lvl 20 HT, in t7 where ppl have resists, lvl 62 PT doesnt do THAT much </blockquote>Its mainly all the level locking people crying about HT, level up real pvp doesnt begin till 40+ </blockquote> Cresent my impression from Krokous post is that the whining about HT should be disregarded BECAUSE at higher levels with better resists dont do that much.  And just to put it out there my resists aren't that great and I have lived through 2 consecutive ht's from exiled sk's...so personally, I have a VERY hard time trying to sympathize with the criers.  Same exact scenario on my ranger back in the day, HT never one shotted me. </blockquote><p>AH</p><p>I dont see what the big deal about HT is at all hehe get resists up and watch ya health. Most SK I know dont HT unless the person is trying to zone or run. </p>

[G1Joe]

<p>tbh I wish they would just get rid of HT it is too insignificant to me as an SK to get all the grief we do about it.</p><p>Most of the time at level 70 pvp I hit for around 3K and that as you know is every 15 minutes , sure sometimes it can hit for more but not that often tbh. As ssslick said a lot of the time I use it for its heal effect.</p><p>I have always thought it would be better for SK to simply do more damage straight up or event more lifetap ability and [Removed for Content] this 1 time 15 minute ability. HT in some ways is an equaliser cos without very decent gear an SK without HT will be pretty much fodder to a lot of classes unless the player is very skilled.</p><p>And 690 Int self buffed is very decent ssslick. I only get to like 580 with 450str and sta</p>

[Orthureon]

<p>G1Joe,</p><p> I have been saying almost the same thing for a while now, get rid of HT all together. Yet in exchange give pallies and SKs uninterruptable spells (pallies would need LoH nerfed a little though). Imagine being able to chase down people and nuke them especially with the in-combat run speed changes, our only snare would be great on the run.</p>

[G1Joe]

Yep snare on the run would be awesome , its one of those things the devs have to balance out tho SK's are close to being really really good if not careful they could make us the most uber class in PVP wouldnt that be terrible <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[KaroX]

<p>Instead the new victim of double nerfing is wardens.</p><p>"Lowered the heal amount of Warden spores while in pvp."</p>

[Denzei]

<p>Some things really sucks...</p><p> Why can't the SK's HT get nerfed when they gladly nerf the insta heal on the Paladins?</p><p>Our heal dropped with about 700-1200...      I'm sure, something like that haven't happened to the HT...</p><p> It's just great!.... To play the class which SOE loves to put on the bottom......    seriously.... not....</p>

[Krokous]

<cite>Denzei wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Some things really sucks...</p><p> Why can't the SK's HT get nerfed when they gladly nerf the insta heal on the Paladins?</p><p>Our heal dropped with about 700-1200...      I'm sure, something like that haven't happened to the HT...</p><p> It's just great!.... To play the class which SOE loves to put on the bottom......    seriously.... not....</p></blockquote>cry us a river.   paladin can face equally geared sk anytime

[Xerias II]

<p>What's the range on PT anyway?  I never played SK but I got PT'd other day it seemed from quite a distance away.  I dont' mind if SK's keep the damage of PT but it seems like it should work from 0 range only.  If you break my kite and can get in on me fine, but PT'ing me from distance is BS.</p><p>--Oxec, 70 Ranger</p>

[Bloodfa]

Well, I guess the "Touch" part isn't really a 'touch'.  More like a wave.  35 is pretty impressive for something that implies physical contact in its' name.  Been knocked on my [Removed for Content] a few times by it, usually followed by a "Yep, shoulda known he wasn't a 'Zerker". <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[tass]

ok this is what I want. Take resist and cut them in half. Then take a half of that half and put it in as the resist rate. Then I can roll another mage on pvp. I mean mana sheild is nice. In fact its the only thing that actually makes a sorcerer able to even represent there class. But [Removed for Content] it why the resists. Resist, resist resist, and thats with the spells aas maxed out to reduce their resist.

[Bozidar]

<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>ok this is what I want. Take resist and cut them in half. Then take a half of that half and put it in as the resist rate. Then I can roll another mage on pvp. I mean mana sheild is nice. In fact its the only thing that actually makes a sorcerer able to even represent there class. But [I cannot control my vocabulary] it why the resists. Resist, resist resist, and thats with the spells aas maxed out to reduce their resist. </blockquote> You heard that they're modifying the resists, right?

[Eluzay]

Jubilee@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>According to LU 36 they mitigate, but before as its always has been I don't believe they ever have  -  otherwise a 6K HT crit would of normally resulted in almost 10K if the person had 0 resists?  The PVP scale doesn't even allow that much and I doubt a crit would give more than 60% (which is about max resist for anyone)  If you don't believe in a 6K crit ask Gnarkill, he's done it plenty of times.</blockquote>In raids i proved to myself that resists have mit, fighting last named in labs, 6k resists took more damage than 8 (used switchout gear) as far as gnarlkill getting 6k crits, either he was in a group and buffed to high heaven vs someone with low resists who was subsequently debuffed by multiple people or he is like neo in the matrix and can just make things happen by thinking about them. Gnarlkill is also probably the most geared out sk on the server.  I wonder what his in is in off mode.