Where are the players? Grouping issues are more present than ever.

[talbert]

<p>Hello,</p><p>Long time MMO player here (EQ, WoW, and now EQ2). I understand with all MMOs that as the game ages, server populations mature. I'm a bit taken back though and extremly frustrated at the lack of grouping and/or player base at lower levels. Sub 50 groups are more and more difficult to get. Especially at non peak play times (yet still at what I consider popular play times). Bad enough that I'm to the point of wondering why to log in on my lower level characters. I can't even imagine how new players who've recently bought an account feel. They must feel like they are playing a single player non MMO game.</p><p>Like many I wanted to go back and enjoy other aspects of the game I previously missed. So over the last year or so I've made other toons and started leveling them up to 70. For some non solo toons however this journey has been a nightmare. Simply put, groups are far and few between until the 50's. It's as if the entire server solo's from 0-50 minus a few FG, RE and Klack groups you occasionally here requests for. And those groups are only prime time. </p><p>- My journey started with a Coercer. Absolute nightmare getting groups and I practically solo'd my way to 60. This class I can understand having a hard time with. Not really needed in groups and theres a significant portion of the non raiding population who doesn't recognize the role. So this one I let slide. I did talk to one or two of the other Coercers in the level range and got the same story. Had a total of 2 groups from 0 to 60 and I looked everyday.</p><p>- I then made a ranger. I figured at least this way I could solo easy during downtime if I couldnt get groups. Pretty much the same story. A little more groupage here, probably because of the familiarity of the class and the role. Still spent 85% of the time soloing. He's now 60.</p><p>- Next up was an Inquisitor. Didn't really want to play a healer but I wanted to see how the groupage was. On my server healers and tanks are the golden classes. When not being invited to a group it was much easier to start one than with the previous two. My groupage went to about 50% on the inquisitor. Maybe more. It's an easy class to take the lead and throw something together. Still though, even with a tank and me being the healer, many times we couldn't fill a group!</p><p>- I next made a Dirge, and was pretty much the same story as the Coercer. Deleted him at 45.</p><p>- Next up is my Wiz. He's probably the next best for groupage next to the Inq. Can get groups about 50% of the time but still find myself soloing a lot.</p><p> Bottom line, is I'm highly surprised at how little grouping goes on Sub 50. Even in games like EQ I always found it realatively easy to get groups, but in EQ2 I find more and more people doing their own thing. Most of my MMO life I've been on of those people as well that ignore's PUG's and grinds to 70 then raids. For once I wanted to stop and smell the roses (after leveling my raid chars to 70), but there are no groups to be found. How depressing!</p><p>In the end I've leveled more of my toons off the collections I've found hunting and soloing then from levels grouping. Is this a sign the game is dead? I'm getting the feeling we aren't getting new accounts in this game and that all we have left are those existing accounts already at 70 and that all these sub 50 characters are nothing but alts doing their own thing or playing with guildies.</p>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>Hmm....sorry to hear you had trouble finding groups as you leveled. </p><p>I don't see that problem at all. I'm in a very large guild though, so usually one call in guild chat fills things up, regardless of the toon level I'm playing. The server is usually hopping too.</p><p>If you're on the Unrest server look me up...if you're not, maybe consider rolling up there or transferring. I'm sure there are other servers like mine too.</p><p>Filmore Graves</p><p>The Shard Collectors</p>

[Notso]

I tried to get a group together this weekend to knock out some level 30 HQ's. No luck. Everyone is leveling up doing regular quests and collections. The rush to get AA's at early levels has really hurt grouping.

[Zard]

<p>On <b>Oasis</b>, I regularly see groups forming for Ruins of Varsoon (typically level 28+) or Runnyeye (typically level 34+) and, less frequently, Stormhold and Fallen Gate (both typically level 18+). I occassionally see groups forming for Blackburrow or Wailing Caves (both typically level 12+), or Firemyst Gully (typically level 15+). Low level pickup groups <i>do</i> exist but are harder to find outside of primetime (weekday nights; US time zones).</p>

[Melod]

Maybe the time of day you play?  I am working on several alts of every level right now and getting groups for me (EST prime time) is as easy as starting a group and asking for players (no just spamming LFG will not do it as it gets lost with all the other LFG's just standing around waiting for someome to start a group).  I have a 70 wizard, 48 Guardian, 47 Dirge, and a 36 Necro.  I never solo at all - hate it myself.  Also, get in a good guild.  Half my groups or group members are alwasy guildies.

[talbert]

<p>Filmore!</p><p> Actually I am on unrest! I've actually grouped with you many times on my 70 Chars (Drixxil - Coercer and Plixx - Necro). I was part of the Crimson Twilight fall out and now running guildless. With summertime here I've decided to just play some lower level toons for awhile and see whats out there before jumping back in to the raid scene.</p><p> And yeah Shards has a ton of members. Great guild for finding friends to play with! Thanks for dropping by man. Always good to see you. Wish I had more luck in the PUG scene.</p>

[Nemoscat]

I have played a ranger to 70, Wiz to 50, a Inq to 48, a Sk to 25, a warden to 24 a monk to 15, a templar to 23. The first 3 was on Nektolus and I had no problems finding a group. Occasionally depending on  timing there might take a while to find a group in your range, but still 85% was done in group. After moving all my characters to AB in the last free server move, I found it harder to find a PUG,  probably due large part to RP'ers that don't use level chat but rather meet up to get their groups going. However, I never find  it to be a problem. Usually i find a group that either needs a healer or a tank even though my tanking experience is rather new. If I can't find anything, I simply craft a bit with my LFG flag turned on and sooner or later I usually get a tell from someone who needs help. The other thing is, If you can't find a group, maybe some others can't find one either, so start your own. Now this is something I seldom do myself as I have 4 crafters i try to level, so I always have something to do.

[talbert]

<p>Thinking out loud...here are my 2 issues:</p><p> 1) I'm a traveling consultant and right now my client is in PST. So by the time I leave the office, grab some dinner, catch a run and sit down at the computer...it's easily 11 CST or 12 midnight EST. I may try moving my run to the morning and see what getting home an hour or two early does for me.</p><p> 2) Since I have a full time job and work long days it means when I do sit down to play..I need to "PLAY". I've got maybe 2-3 hours tops during the week so if I don't have a group by the first hour I usually hang it up and log. No point in being tired the next day for nothing.</p><p> It sounds as if maybe </p><p>1) I'm getting online a little late and </p><p>2) I know not being in a guild right now is hurting me. I don't want to join a social guild though only to leave later or never log back in once my raid scene/schedule picks back up. Just seems disrespectful. So I've been going at this alone.</p><p> Thanks everyone for chipping in. Nice to see some constructive feedback.</p>

[Astrlidia]

<p>I don't mind soloing, because I can take my time on how fast I want to level my characters. I don't group for 3 reasons. </p><p>1; looting. I hate the lotto, and I always get the vendor trash, while others ALWAYS get the best loot, mostly the group leader and his/her friends(s). if I'm going to spend a few hours with you, I would like to take something I can use, not junk for the merchants. Also, nearly all players that join groups use a looting macro and loot the best item before any one checks the corpose(s). This happens all the time, and why should I group with selfish greedy player(s) like this?</p><p>2; the death penalty. I know it's been reduced, but you always get they players that die alot, and the healer(s) never really know their class. They sometimes will heal their guildies first, along with the tanks. Leaving others to pull back or die. Also the XP is very limiting if you're not a tank.</p><p>3; harassment. you get the group leader that treats every member of the group as his/her personal vassel, and expect you to toady to him/her. They go to tell you how you should play your class, and insult you if you don't do things their way. They will have other grop members do the same. Another, sexual harassment. private tells asking for cyber sex. Nosy questions. If I got the annon and roleplayer up, it means I'm not on earth any more, so what I am in RL behind the avatar is none of your business. If that's important to you, then bid my character a goodbye.</p><p>Mostly they expect you be power leveling like them, and expect you to be there to help them to power level. I do want to get to 70, but not tomorrow.</p>

[Windowlicker]

<p>The server populations are basicly in a steady state of decline because Sony refuses to advertise the game properly, or keep reasonable levels of stock in almost any store.</p><p>I can't even remember the last time I saw a copy of EQ2 on a shelf somewhere.  </p><p>If you ask me, it's completely amazing the game is even still standing with the lack of attention.</p><p>Someone really REALLY needs to fire the Marketing department.</p>

[Nemoscat]

*

[Melod]

<cite>Astrlidia wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I don't mind soloing, because I can take my time on how fast I want to level my characters. I don't group for 3 reasons. </p><p>1; looting. I hate the lotto, and I always get the vendor trash, while others ALWAYS get the best loot, mostly the group leader and his/her friends(s). if I'm going to spend a few hours with you, I would like to take something I can use, not junk for the merchants. Also, nearly all players that join groups use a looting macro and loot the best item before any one checks the corpose(s). This happens all the time, and why should I group with selfish greedy player(s) like this?</p><p>2; the death penalty. I know it's been reduced, but you always get they players that die alot, and the healer(s) never really know their class. They sometimes will heal their guildies first, along with the tanks. Leaving others to pull back or die. Also the XP is very limiting if you're not a tank.</p><p>3; harassment. you get the group leader that treats every member of the group as his/her personal vassel, and expect you to toady to him/her. They go to tell you how you should play your class, and insult you if you don't do things their way. They will have other grop members do the same. Another, sexual harassment. private tells asking for cyber sex. Nosy questions. If I got the annon and roleplayer up, it means I'm not on earth any more, so what I am in RL behind the avatar is none of your business. If that's important to you, then bid my character a goodbye.</p><p>Mostly they expect you be power leveling like them, and expect you to be there to help them to power level. I do want to get to 70, but not tomorrow.</p></blockquote>Wow.  I think all I can say is wow.  Not sure what world you are living in.  Glad I don't live there though.

[Dasein]

On AB, playing weeknights from about 8-11 EST, I have no trouble finding groups. I'm currently playing a 70 pally, low-40s dirge and low 20s trouby, and never have any problem finding a group should I want one. Sometimes this means starting one, or mentoring down a bit to join a slightly lower level group, but should I want a group, I'll get one.

[Ba]

<p>I usually start my own groups.</p><p>It's pretty easy, start with the lfg tool and /who all lfg, my friends list and guild chat. Send some tells. Advertise on the chat channels for the remaining gaps. I'll happily roll out with just 4 players who are willing to stick with me for a few hours.</p><p>Since I tend to play healers right now I just need to find a tank and a couple of others. Takes about 15 mins total -- sometimes longer if people need to travel or I need to "babysit" (guide) them a bit.</p>

[Cakassis]

<p>I'm on Oasis as well and never really have a problem finding a group, even on the low-level alts.  I might have an issue if I'm trying to find a group to do something specifc, but if I'm flexible about where I'm going I've never had a problem getting another couple people together for some fun.</p><p>As for the poor poster who seems to attract the worst groups ever... what the heck is a "looting macro" and how does it allow someone to loot everything before anyone else when lotto is in effect?</p>

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<cite>talbert wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Filmore!</p><p> Actually I am on unrest! I've actually grouped with you many times on my 70 Chars (Drixxil - Coercer and Plixx - Necro). I was part of the Crimson Twilight fall out and now running guildless. With summertime here I've decided to just play some lower level toons for awhile and see whats out there before jumping back in to the raid scene.</p><p> And yeah Shards has a ton of members. Great guild for finding friends to play with! Thanks for dropping by man. Always good to see you. Wish I had more luck in the PUG scene.</p></blockquote><p>Lol...hiya....didn't realize you were Drixx and Plixx <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Yep, we've had some good groupage. </p><p>If you have trouble finding a group sometime, see if I'm on....I can ask in guild for any groups with spots. Helps them too if they're short a spot. </p><p>The " /alliance " channel is helpful too occasionally....or maybe I could jump on an Alt for a bit. I have some new ones I'm grooming...and I'm still working on some other's AAs. Any level's good if I'm free....or I could mentor my Inquis (he still needs some AAs).</p><p>Filmore Graves 70 SK</p><p>Kanos The' Inquisitive  70 inquis</p><p>Bloodbath 58 Dirge</p><p>Chimpnoodle 29 Necro</p><p>Baane Of'Angels 23 Defiler</p><p>[Secret Toon] 20 Illusionist</p><p>[empty slot] <--- could start a new one lol. Maybe a real DPSer this time. Hmm,maybe Warlock or Wizard <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The Shard Collectors</p>

[Siogai]

I play a Brigand, I think I've needed a party maybe half a dozen times in 50-some levels to accomplish what I wanted to do. If you have a main that you want to get into raiding with and needs a party to advance, but still want to play EQ2 in your off-time, roll up a soloing alt. Scout classes like Swash/Brigand, DPS classes like Wizards, the Druid classes like Warden/Fury and several others, as players of those classes can, I'm sure, tell you, all solo very well.  While you won't be tackling HQs and a lot of the dungeons very easily, there's still plenty of solo content to do at just about any level for a lot of classes.

[Bluu]

<p>Thank you! Finally someone who feels the same way I do! They need to do a serious server-merge, I think they're afraid to because it would look like the game is dying (it isn't really though)</p><p>Though as a suggestion, you might want to do what I did, and re-roll all your characters on Antonia Bayle server, the highest population PvE server. There is a good deal of players there, alot better than other servers.</p>

[Darian]

I've feel this way too but I'm always told otherwise.

[DanaDark]

<p>I miss seeing people everywhere like I used to in EQ1. I remember times when areas like Karnor's Castle was just bursting with groups and cities were bustling with people shopping at vendors, banking, questing, and going to the arenas and such.</p><p>I would definately support a server merger to up the populations.</p>

[hobi]

<p>the problem isn't where is all the people. matter of fact the game worl is so large that everyone is spread out. and it not a question of finding people to group with it finding people to group with thats doing what you are or planning to do with alot of dungeons and instances.</p><p>i do admit ther are prob servers  that may have a pop and finding peeps may be an issue. but even in more pop servers it can be depending on the time of day. like on lucen in the morning wont see many but in the afternoon and evening thats when every shows up  and then see the most people on weekends. </p><p>overall due to how big the game world is and with it getting bigger with the next expansion. i think soe should start agressivly markety the game again to drum up new players to supplement the older players </p>

[Hollywood]

<cite>DanaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I miss seeing people everywhere like I used to in EQ1. I remember times when areas like Karnor's Castle was just bursting with groups and cities were bustling with people shopping at vendors, banking, questing, and going to the arenas and such.</p><p>I would definately support a server merger to up the populations.</p></blockquote>I suspect there are many people (possibly myself included, would have to think long and hard on it) who would not put up with yet another server merger after the chaotic disarray of the first one.  They just might end up with a significantly lower subscriber base if they tried that again.

[talbert]

<p>I agree with Dana about the EQ1 memories. In that game (and man that world was [Removed for Content] huge, much bigger I think than EQ2) it seems that groups were always available. In fact it was out right frustrating somtimes because some zones actually were too crowded!!! Groups, even years later, still seemed easy to get. When in doubt go to the NorthWall at KC! People were everywhere 24X7.</p><p>I wish SOE would re-release EQ with an updated graphics engine. I'd kiss EQ2 goodbye in hearbeat..but anyway..thats offtopic.</p><p> Server merger? That might work, either that or SOE needs a way to get some new accounts coming in! The game itseld is pretty solid. Sure it can be improved. Maybe the MMO world is spread to thin now. Too many games to choose from <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Armawk]

I suppose a group leader could switch lotto off, loot the stuff and switch it on (no macro for that though) but everyone would see it happen instantly

[Kizee]

<cite>Hollywood wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>DanaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I miss seeing people everywhere like I used to in EQ1. I remember times when areas like Karnor's Castle was just bursting with groups and cities were bustling with people shopping at vendors, banking, questing, and going to the arenas and such.</p><p>I would definately support a server merger to up the populations.</p></blockquote>I suspect there are many people (possibly myself included, would have to think long and hard on it) who would not put up with yet another server merger after the chaotic disarray of the first one.  They just might end up with a significantly lower subscriber base if they tried that again. </blockquote><p> Yep, I wouldn't stick around for another server merge. </p><p>The reason people don't group is because you can get faster exp and lots of AA by doing the almost endless amounts of solo quest. Why group and grind when you don't have to.</p>

[Klanch]

This game? ... Large? ... <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Siogai]

<blockquote>I agree with Dana about the EQ1 memories. In that game (and man that world was [Removed for Content] huge, much bigger I think than EQ2) it seems that groups were always available. In fact it was out right frustrating somtimes because some zones actually were too crowded!!! Groups, even years later, still seemed easy to get. When in doubt go to the NorthWall at KC! People were everywhere 24X7.</blockquote> I think you're looking at history through rose-coloured glasses.  Sure, Dreadlands/KC was busy for the year or so after ROK was released, but when PoP came around, there was a predictable Newbie Zone-> Paludal -> HighPassHold -> (whatever those mountains with the red ape guys was) -> POP Planes progression.  It was impossible to find a group anywhere else at that point and beyond, until the LOY and LDON expansions came around.  Once that happened... well, you grouped for LDON and LOY, but certainly not anywhere else, and then only as an alternative to POP progression. Heck, I played a Cleric, and even I had problems finding parties towards the end of my time in EQ1, especially once Druids and Shamans had begun to equal the Cleric's healing ability in non-Raid parties.

[MadLordOfMilk]

<cite>talbert wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thinking out loud...here are my 2 issues:</p><p> 1) I'm a traveling consultant and right now my client is in PST. So by the time I leave the office, grab some dinner, catch a run and sit down at the computer...it's easily 11 CST or 12 midnight EST. I may try moving my run to the morning and see what getting home an hour or two early does for me.</p><p> 2) Since I have a full time job and work long days it means <b>when I do sit down to play..I need to "PLAY"</b>. I've got maybe 2-3 hours tops during the week so if I don't have a group by the first hour I usually hang it up and log. No point in being tired the next day for nothing.</p><p> It sounds as if maybe </p><p>1) I'm getting online a little late and </p><p>2) I know not being in a guild right now is hurting me. I don't want to join a social guild though only to leave later or never log back in once my raid scene/schedule picks back up. Just seems disrespectful. So I've been going at this alone.</p><p> Thanks everyone for chipping in. Nice to see some constructive feedback.</p></blockquote>Not being a [I cannot control my vocabulary] with this comment, but if it means anything to you, Guild Wars isn't too bad to pick up if you want a game you can play in short spurts and still get stuff done. I go to it on occasion when I'm stuck w/o a group or some other crappy situation... though if you're not into PvP, the normal gameplay is sub-par (esp. compared to EQ2) but the PvP blows EQ2 away by miles heh.

[Bawang]

<p>Server moves have limits as to how effectively they can alleviate the low population problem.  I just moved from Venekor to Nagafen, which is the most populated PvP server, and yet I'm having a real hard time find groups in Nagafen.  But if they offered another move, there's nowhere for me to go.  I'd rather they just merge Venekor and Nagafen and be done with it.  That should help with the low pop problem.</p>

[Daysy]

If you work shifts or strange hours so that your playing time doesn't coincide with "prime time" in Norrath, it can be more difficult to find groups. Some people get around this by having a character or two on a different lot of servers, ie, US if you're in Europe or EU if you're in America. If a Need/Greed lotto system were implemented, that might also encourage more people to join in PUGs instead of only grouping with friends or guildies. If Sony put some copies of the game in the shops, that would help too. Some of us had to order them from half-way around the world because those were the only copies we could find. Other friends of ours that had intended joining us gave up trying to find them and bought other games instead.

[talbert]

<p><b>Siogai</b> - Yeah you're right about zone populations. The crowd goes where the expansion is. I stand corrected on my statement, although I still think groups were 10X easier to get in EQ1 then EQ2. And yeah I feel you on the cleric thing. Once Druids anc Shammies got that bump, clerics cease to have the demand they used to have and it paid to play one of the other classes.</p><p><b>Kraaj</b> - I actually tried and play guild wars up until the first expansion. After games like EQ,WoW and EQ2 guild wars felt like an arcade game to me. Sure it was ok to toy around with, but it couldn't keep me for long. Definately a good suggestion though considering my current situation. Thanks anyway man. </p>

[DanaDark]

<cite>Siogai wrote:</cite><blockquote> I think you're looking at history through rose-coloured glasses.  Sure, Dreadlands/KC was busy for the year or so after ROK was released, but when PoP came around, there was a predictable Newbie Zone-> Paludal -> HighPassHold -> (whatever those mountains with the red ape guys was) -> POP Planes progression.  It was impossible to find a group anywhere else at that point and beyond, until the LOY and LDON expansions came around.  Once that happened... well, you grouped for LDON and LOY, but certainly not anywhere else, and then only as an alternative to POP progression. Heck, I played a Cleric, and even I had problems finding parties towards the end of my time in EQ1, especially once Druids and Shamans had begun to equal the Cleric's healing ability in non-Raid parties. </blockquote><p>Thats the thing... in EQ1 things were different before Luclin and PoP. Verant Interactive owned Everquest when it came out, and made Kunark and Velious. Both these expansions were great and had varying zones that stil required groups. Velks Lab was terrific xp at the time and crap for loot generally. KC was a good place for loot but not as good xp. So both stayed pretty populated. </p><p>I remember when I took an alt to Paludal.. it was WAY too good xp and loot and everything. I was stunned. This actually made HUGE problems for EQ1 later on.</p><p>In EQ1, in the beginning, you could solo up to roughly lvl 20 for most classes. Then you'd pretty much have to start grouping. For Antonica, High Keep was the place to go. There, people learned to group and how to function in a group and so forth. ALWAYS drama there... always. But since they made xp easier and such, before I left EQ1, I watched the same events of HHK happen in Bastion of Thunder. So, it was at lvl 50+ that people started to learn to group and how to be good players and such.</p><p>If Sony merged more servers while VARYING the zones (like KC and Velks was), then there would indeed be more groups and spread out in different areas more without and overwhelming amount of empty spaces.</p><p>Although... actually MARKETING THE GAME might help too... call me crazy... but I go into game stores and am practically beaten to death by sales people chanting WoW... WoW... WoW... WoW... no wonder they have so many subscribers >< </p>

[tass]

eh wouldnt matter if u have 6 hours to dit in game. Ive seen people sit and sit and sit afk for hours on end while I farm trash mobs for loot and xp. Hell ive left lfg on and went off to town for hours on end come back and only lo chan there has sent me a tell advertising why his family cant get food and needs 89 cents for a plat lol. The game is losing people clear as day even with the added content they slapped in. Eventually if they cant get new people (and I belive that boat has long since sailed) They're just going to have to merge again. 4 worlds 1 server medium load player base!

[BungFoo]

I don't have any problem finding groups, haven't ever really. I play on butcherblock. Server merges would make me cry. I think the population is fine and I play on off peak hours primarily. Since my experience is so opposite of the people complaining about groups being impossible to find I can't help but think that they are either not trying very hard, aren't in a guild (or their guild sucks) or they have developed a bad reputation with other players on their server and are being avoided. In any case, here's a quick run down on the steps I've taken to help myself be able to find groups. 1. I joined a guild that was full of people that I grouped with and played with regularly. 2. join every level chat channel. I monitor them for LFG and LFM requests and I send LFG and LFM requests to multiple channels. 3. use the LFG tool in conjunction with active searching for a group. 4. when you play with someone who you enjoyed playing with, add them to your friends list and then later when you're LFG or LFM look on your friends list for people. Because I'm willing to mentor, if I just want to play with other people or I want to finish up a quest that I've out leveled, I can play with pretty much any level range. Now if you're really focused on a specific quest or refuse to mentor then it might be harder for you to find a group.

[MysidiaDrakkenbane]

Astrlidia wrote: <blockquote><p>2; the death penalty. I know it's been reduced, but you always get they players that die alot, and the healer(s) never really know their class. They sometimes will heal their guildies first, along with the tanks. Leaving others to pull back or die. Also the XP is very limiting if you're not a tank.</p></blockquote><p>Either that or the healers are tired of healing "heroes" who constantly pull aggro away from the tank. DPS means you are masters of damage, but it also means you need to learn when not to go balls out, too.</p><p>Edit: Instead of waiting for groups, why not start your own? Also, be specific in what you're looking for. 70 Warden LFG is nice...but if I say 70 Warden LFG Vardoon, MMC, Blight... that gives players an expectation of what I'm looking for.</p>

[Salonkolya]

<p>Coming from the opposite tack as I am generally a solo type player but i was thinking of my EQ1 times and when i did occasionally group a lot.</p><p>It almost always started in the popular dungeons like BB and Crushbone where i'd gone to solo but ended up grouping. Basically because it was possible for any class to do *something* solo over a wide level range in those dungeons people would congregate there. Grouping peeps would then find it easy to group because there were people already there. Soloers carried on soloing or grouped for a change. So I wonder if having so many dungeons as all heroic except a few levels of mobs at the entrance is a good idea.</p><p>I think the idea of heroic mobs is a good one but i think they should be a bit more special. Rooms with bosses and guards that have the best loot and need a group rather than needing a group for gnoll runts. If you liked to group and knew the dungeons with good group loot/content but also knew you could solo there while you waited maybe that would work better.</p><p>Not much experience with grouping though so that may be all wrong.</p>

[Bromir]

<p>I cant recognise this problem at all .. I get groups . I have an active play time .. </p><p>Get a good guild and know where to go for your level then you should be fine .. </p><p>Yours</p><p>Brorim</p>

[Vonotar]

<cite>MysidiaDrakkenbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Astrlidia wrote: <blockquote><p>2; the death penalty. I know it's been reduced, but you always get they players that die alot, and the healer(s) never really know their class. They sometimes will heal their guildies first, along with the tanks. Leaving others to pull back or die. Also the XP is very limiting if you're not a tank.</p></blockquote><p>Either that or the healers are tired of healing "heroes" who constantly pull aggro away from the tank. DPS means you are masters of damage, but it also means you need to learn when not to go balls out, too. </p></blockquote> I've been know to 'hold back' from healing some group members until they start taking group advice to target off the tank.  Necro's are often bad offenders and they continue to play 'solo' from within the group (using and targetting off a tank pet and ignoring what the rest of the group is doing). When you have somebody who refuses to take advice/wait for tank to build aggro, it's better to wait 5 secs before healing.  Letting them die and then using battle rezz is far more preferable to spending all your time keeping them alive while the tank suffers. Oh and not enough people are using the new LFG.  I constantly berate people in channels when they advertise that they are LFG but haven't added themselves to the new LFG tool.  The average group leader doesn't have time to scans multiple channels over the last 5-10 minutes when looking for a replacement dps for their group.

[tass]

omg I know. You have people flm or lfg and u throw up the entire server lfg and of the 14 people there they aernt on it lol.  Still its such a [Removed for Content] to find people on blackburrow anymore. I sit there lfg. I look to see if any grps are lfm and find maybe 3. And of those you know at least 1 is a [Removed for Content] grp leader. I look through the people lfg to just make my own grp as there aernty any grps really anywhere anymore (heh belive me I checked, dam grp zones are dead or filled with farmers) and Im scraping up anything I can get. I even invite troubs as a source of dps for gods sake. Eventually It just gets so tiring you dont even look anymore you just get a quest or 2 and start grinding on crap mobs or 3 arrows to level yourself. Some server may have no problems finding grps like butcherblock and the couple others that load medium, but it sure as hell isn't like that on all of em.

[nia]

<p>     I played EQ1 for 5 years....At first it was very easy to get groups....Very rarely took more than 30 minutes to get one.....The last 2 years or so though it was a nightmare.....My main was an Enchanter and I had a large friends list but once EQ2 and WoW came out it became a nightmare to get groups in EQ1.....With the advent of EQ2 and WoW the game genre has changed.....Players do not want forced grouping anymore and want to have the ability to solo when they cant/dont want to group.....I found the best way to find groups in EQ2 was t otry and find a decent sized guild.....Many of the people in my guild have several characters and will log on an alt if there is a group to be had.....</p><p> Grouping</p><p>Pros: Social aspect, can work on HQs, tackle mobs that cant be done solo, better chance at quality loot.</p><p>Cons: Time (ie waiting for group to form, deciding where to go, waiting for other members to arrive, afks, etc), money (ie having to split drops several ways often coming away with little for the time spent), having to deal with less than desireable people at times, greedy players, and ease of doing quests solo. </p><p>         Too many players are too picky about the classes in their group.....Instead of taking a pally or dirge or someone who is available they will demand a high DPS and not go until they get one.....Personally I would just as soon take the people that are willing to play and adjust....These games have fallen into such a stereotype as far as the classes go that players jsut dont learn to play without anymore....In EQ1 we often had groups that had no cleric or tank or slower but found ways to make them work...This was often the best groups we found....Everyone seemed to play better and pay mroe attention when this was the case....With the tank/cleric/slower/dps mode to me it gets boring because you play the same exact role every time....It seems that the goals of MMOs have changed now and that the loot is more important than the social aspect.</p><p>         FOr many players time is the key....Many people have RL issues that simply dont allow them the time it takes to group for any length of time....Most people have an hour or two blocks to play..... Even with quicker travel it still takes alot of time to get a group going and to the same spot in a short amount of time.... </p>

[Gargamel]

<p>EQ2 had horrible grouping tools to start with, so its their own fault, but generally more people need to use the LFG tag and tool now that its been improved slightly.</p><p>It still needs work.</p><p>Particularly a checkbox so when you go LFG, to indicate you are LFG for questing. Then allow us to flag quests in our journal that we want to include when we go LFG with the questing checkbox ticked.</p><p>It'd be a super easy way to search for people to get together to get done all those overland heroic quests that you might have laying around and want to finish.  Good for people who only want to quest, not grind, or people that want to grind but would do an 'old' or 'grey' quest if they had some others willing to do it with them.</p><p>Anyway... other than group questing in overland zones... the dungeons are easy to find a group.</p><p>1) Go to level appropriate dungeon 2) Go into LFG tool, enter the dungeons you want to do in the description field, and turn on LFG 3) Check the LFM tab to see if any group leaders are starting or have a group looking for more 4) Announce your level and class, and where you want to go in the level channel (30-40, 40-50, etc) 5) Go solo until you get a hit (or stand at entrace to grab an open spot on an incoming group) 6) Try using /ooc to send a message to the zone you are in, looking for group.  Some people ignore the level channels, or don't want to wait for people to form up, but if you right there and can join up quickly, some are more apt to invite. 7) If time passes and no group -- Start one (in group channel, announce your level, where you want to go, and ask if anyone wants to start a gorup)</p><p>Regardless, I'd be surprised if you can't find a group to go dungeon crawling (remember most, if not all, have an 'instance' or two at the end of them somewhere, with boss mobs, legendary drops, and master chests -- to say nothing of the disco xp and AA from killing named mobs)</p><p>Heroic Dungeons - listed by level </p><ul><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Wailing_Caves" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Wailing Caves</a> (11-17) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Blackburrow" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Blackburrow</a> (13-18) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Stormhold" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Stormhold</a> (15-27) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Fallen_Gate" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Fallen Gate</a> (18-25) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Crushbone_Keep" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Crushbone Keep</a> (20-30) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Ruins_of_Varsoon" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Ruins of Varsoon</a> (25-34) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Nektropos_Castle" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Nektropos Castle</a> (30-37) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Runnyeye_Citadel" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Runnyeye Citadel</a> (30-39) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Deathfist_Citadel" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Deathfist Citadel</a> (36-52) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Obelisk_of_Lost_Souls" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Obelisk of Lost Souls</a> (37-49) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Temple_of_Cazic-Thule" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Temple of Cazic-Thule</a> (41-55) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Tower_of_the_Drafling" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Tower of the Drafling</a> (42-46) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Permafrost" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Permafrost</a> (45-51) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Solusek%27s_Eye" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Solusek's Eye</a> (45-53) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Klak%27Anon" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Klak'Anon</a> (45-55) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Clefts_of_Rujark" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Clefts of Rujark</a> (50-55) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Living_Tombs" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Living Tombs</a> (50-55) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Shimmering_Citadel" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Shimmering Citadel</a> (52-58) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/New_Tunaria" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">New Tunaria</a> (55-65) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Silent_City" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Silent City</a> (56-61) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Sanctum_of_the_Scaleborn" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Sanctum of the Scaleborn</a> (60-67) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Forsaken_City" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Forsaken City</a> (60-68) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Kaladim" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Kaladim</a> (60-70) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Palace_of_the_Awakened" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Palace of the Awakened</a> (65-70) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Mistmoore_Catacombs" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Mistmoore Catacombs</a> (66-70) </li><li><a href="http://eq2i.com/articles/Castle_Mistmoore" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Castle Mistmoore</a> (70) </li></ul><p>GOOD LUCK!</p>

[evr]

<p>Well from a new player perspective.  It SUCKS.  I just started an inquisitor on butcherblock server because a few friends play there.  I have only played a few hours and hit 9th level but it honestly feels like I'm playing a solo game.  Chat is dead, the starting zones and freeport are dead.  I've seen a total of 4 other players since I started.  </p><p>It really sucks the fun out of the game.   And the unhelpful join a good guild bull that people keep throwing out doesn't do any good.  If I knew which guilds were good I would not be a new player.  </p><p> Yeah I know I should be spamming LFG, be trying to find a guild etc.  But the feeling of being all alone in a zone just makes it harder and harder to log in.  At this point I doubt I'll keep the account.  When My month is up I'm done.  Barring some miraculous event that sparks fun.  </p><p> Don't get me wrong.  i've loved the start of the game I like the quests so far but I didn't get an MMO to solo.  And Apparantly that's what most people in EQ2 do these days till around 50.  (At least that's what the few people who'll talk to a poor noob say)</p>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>The problem with EQ2 is that there's no reason to group below level 70. I think there are several main causes of this:</p><ul><li>Heroic mobs are, for the vast majority of classes, soloable as soon as they're a blue con. Many classes can kill yellow heroic mobs solo. So there's no reason to group simply because you couldn't kill the mob otherwise.</li><li>The AA system promotes grinding quests over grinding mobs. It's much easier to do lots of solo quests to gain AA, than it is to try and get a group doing quests (even with quest sharing). Particularly because heroic quests yield little more (if any) AA than solo ones.</li><li>Because most dungeons are farmable using invisibility (you can invis from named to named), it's better loot to invis round soloing green heroic nameds, than it is to group for a yellow con dungeon. The main advantage of a group over a soloer in a dungeon - faster kills - is negated by invisibility.</li><li>The tier-based loot system leaves little room for items that are still useful throughout the life of your character. Only certain HQ items are worth getting; every other item will be replaced in T7.</li></ul><p>EQ2 as a game is packed with solo people who simply never group, because there's not enough incentive for them to go through the hassle. It really struck me when reading someone posting earlier in this thread the reasons they "hate" grouping, that EQ2 is creating a playerbase of people who solo to the extent they can't stand having to share loot, seldom co-operate, and never learn to play their class properly (and god forbid anyone should criticise the 70 wizzie doing 500dps, the healer that can't solo heal a group, or the tank that can't body pull). It's pandered so utterly to the maximum reward, zero risk mentality that there's no reason to have someone watching your back, or share your loot when so-called group content is 95% soloable.</p><p>Their repeated response to this is "combat revamps", that do little but utterly discard months of subtle changes and create a glut of new issues. I would hope that they'll one day realise that, ironically, giving players everything they want does not make a massively successful game.</p>

[fandib]

Zahne@Mistmoore wrote: <blockquote><p>The server populations are basicly in a steady state of decline because Sony refuses to advertise the game properly, or keep reasonable levels of stock in almost any store.</p><p>I can't even remember the last time I saw a copy of EQ2 on a shelf somewhere.  </p><p>If you ask me, it's completely amazing the game is even still standing with the lack of attention.</p><p>Someone really REALLY needs to fire the Marketing department.</p></blockquote>I see the game all over the shelves here in any store that sells games. In fact I can't think of a time in the past couple of years that it wasen't on the shelves. I think what they need to do is get more info out about the game. The main site gives very little info about the game or it's features and i'm going all over the net to find them as well as asking tons of questions on the message boards. It's very easy to get a clear picture of WoW and all it's features just from the main site. I'd like see more comparisons between the two as you have alot of bored WoW players out there that know almost nothing about EQ2 aside from what the SOE haters are saying.

[Lilj]

<cite>fandibus wrote:</cite><blockquote>I see the game all over the shelves here in any store that sells games. In fact I can't think of a time in the past couple of years that it wasen't on the shelves. I think what they need to do is get more info out about the game. The main site gives very little info about the game or it's features and i'm going all over the net to find them as well as asking tons of questions on the message boards. It's very easy to get a clear picture of WoW and all it's features just from the main site. I'd like see more comparisons between the two as you have alot of bored WoW players out there that know almost nothing about EQ2 aside from what the SOE haters are saying. </blockquote>I hope you don't mind me asking, but where do you live? It is seldom I hear people say what you say here, that the game is all over the place. I often hear people from Europe and Australian complain about the difficulties in getting the game. I haven't seen the game myself in a shop since before EoF.

[Thormiel]

<cite>evron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well from a new player perspective.  It SUCKS.  I just started an inquisitor on butcherblock server because a few friends play there.  I have only played a few hours and hit 9th level but it honestly feels like I'm playing a solo game.  Chat is dead, the starting zones and freeport are dead.  I've seen a total of 4 other players since I started.  </p><p>It really sucks the fun out of the game.   And the unhelpful join a good guild bull that people keep throwing out doesn't do any good.  If I knew which guilds were good I would not be a new player.  </p><p> Yeah I know I should be spamming LFG, be trying to find a guild etc.  But the feeling of being all alone in a zone just makes it harder and harder to log in.  At this point I doubt I'll keep the account.  When My month is up I'm done.  Barring some miraculous event that sparks fun.  </p><p> Don't get me wrong.  i've loved the start of the game I like the quests so far but I didn't get an MMO to solo.  And Apparantly that's what most people in EQ2 do these days till around 50.  (At least that's what the few people who'll talk to a poor noob say)</p></blockquote>It's no surprise that you don't see many other people in Freeport, or Qeynos for that matter, starting areas. With Kelethin and the new Neriak out I bet most of the new toons start there in those respective starting areas instead of Qeynos or Freeport due to the lure of the fae and arasai races, or because they prefer those two starting areas over the old ones in Qeynos / Freeport. Also the levels 1-high teens zip through so quickly that you also won't see many people chatting in those level chats either.

[evr]

<cite>Thormiel wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>evron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well from a new player perspective.  It SUCKS.  I just started an inquisitor on butcherblock server because a few friends play there.  I have only played a few hours and hit 9th level but it honestly feels like I'm playing a solo game.  Chat is dead, the starting zones and freeport are dead.  I've seen a total of 4 other players since I started.  </p><p>It really sucks the fun out of the game.   And the unhelpful join a good guild bull that people keep throwing out doesn't do any good.  If I knew which guilds were good I would not be a new player.  </p><p> Yeah I know I should be spamming LFG, be trying to find a guild etc.  But the feeling of being all alone in a zone just makes it harder and harder to log in.  At this point I doubt I'll keep the account.  When My month is up I'm done.  Barring some miraculous event that sparks fun.  </p><p> Don't get me wrong.  i've loved the start of the game I like the quests so far but I didn't get an MMO to solo.  And Apparantly that's what most people in EQ2 do these days till around 50.  (At least that's what the few people who'll talk to a poor noob say)</p></blockquote>It's no surprise that you don't see many other people in Freeport, or Qeynos for that matter, starting areas. With Kelethin and the new Neriak out I bet most of the new toons start there in those respective starting areas instead of Qeynos or Freeport due to the lure of the fae and arasai races, or because they prefer those two starting areas over the old ones in Qeynos / Freeport. Also the levels 1-high teens zip through so quickly that you also won't see many people chatting in those level chats either. </blockquote>Well my guess is that really hurts your new player retention.  Because if I have to slog alone till 50 or 70 hell even 40ish I"m not going to hang around.  It's a shame the game seems pretty well done but I came here for group activities not solo activities and I think most new players are the same.   Good luck to you all.  /Peaceout

[Obadiah]

<p>Personally I see no issues. I have a level 37 warlock on Everfrost and have had zero issues getting a group. I'm picky about what I'll group for, cause I'm being a goof and trying to get AA as fast as possible with combat XP switching between on and off. So I'm never looking to just grind XP. Nonetheless, no problems finding RoV groups, Nek Castle groups, RE groups, SH groups, FG groups . . . plenty of em every night. </p><p>I generally start solo questing while using the LFG tool, so I knock off a quest or two while looking for just the right group/place.</p><p>Yeah, I'm in a small guild . . . but said Warlock has only grouped with guildmates ONCE, so it's really not related to that at all. </p><p>I also see the game at Best Buy every time I go.</p>

[fandib]

<cite>Liljna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>fandibus wrote:</cite><blockquote>I see the game all over the shelves here in any store that sells games. In fact I can't think of a time in the past couple of years that it wasen't on the shelves. I think what they need to do is get more info out about the game. The main site gives very little info about the game or it's features and i'm going all over the net to find them as well as asking tons of questions on the message boards. It's very easy to get a clear picture of WoW and all it's features just from the main site. I'd like see more comparisons between the two as you have alot of bored WoW players out there that know almost nothing about EQ2 aside from what the SOE haters are saying. </blockquote>I hope you don't mind me asking, but where do you live? It is seldom I hear people say what you say here, that the game is all over the place. I often hear people from Europe and Australian complain about the difficulties in getting the game. I haven't seen the game myself in a shop since before EoF. </blockquote>Portland, Oregon