Please discusss: A common problem. [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Jeridor

06-19-2007, 06:55 PM

I titled this post "A common problem" because I do think the matter I'm about to put forward really is a huge issue in the various EQ2 communities, and I think many (though certainly not all) will see some similarity between their experiences and mine.I started EQ2 when it first opened. I was very excited about it and talked a few friends into trying it out with me. We had a truly amazing time, and spent many long nights enjoying the content in the game. As adventure packs and expansions came out, we dug into that as best as we could, but by then things had splintered a little. Today, I am the only one of the group to still play, and even I quit a few times. I wasn't angry at a change or unhappy with the game's direction. I was just a bit burnt out, and the time commitment to the game is great.But, I'm back. My friends are not, and they won't be back. One sold his account, so he's gone forever. Another pretty much lost interest and I would be shocked if she ever logged in again. Another just basically had her fill, did even more than I did in the game, and she seems to have decided she got what she could out of the game. So, it's just me. I'm in a guild - very nice people, but I don't know any of them really. I do watch the comings and goings enough to at least see that it's not a massively active guild.So, the problem. There's lots of aspects of EQ2 that you can't experience alone, and there's content you can't experience outside of a raid. No, this isn't a post begging for more solo content, nor for less group/raid content development. I make the post just in the hope people will share their ideas, or at least say, "Hey, I don't know what to do but I totally understand where you're coming from."At any rate, there's lots of stuff I missed because it's gray to me now and I need(ed) a group/raid to do it before. Technically I could mentor down to enjoy it, but I still have the more significant problem - finding a group or raid who wants to do it. I have bits of every adventure pack I've never touched, much less expansions. Much less even the original quests. I've done many heritage quests, but doing them all seems all but impossible.Is the answer forcing grouping more? Some game developers think so, but I disagree. Sounds nice in theory - if people have to group, they will group. Unfortunately, I've spent too many nights in DDO, FFXI, etc. waiting for a group to agree with the notion that making them mandatory works. Anyone who's played DDO knows you pretty much have to group and you could spend a good amount of time looking for a group sometimes.I bet about every one of us has something we'd like to do but can't do because of this grouping / raid issue. Whether it's take part in a certain massive raid, dig into the bits of splitpaw or bloodlines we missed, do some of the more arcane quests that groups take part in less, or anything else - almost all of us have something. At least on the non-PvP servers.So what's the solution? I have no idea. I know SOE's new group window is nice, but they can't force people to use it. I see anywhere from 0 to 2 groups looking for members at any given time. I've spent as much or more time mentoring down and playing content I did a long time ago as doing stuff my own level lately. The big problem there is that I not only miss out on stuff my level, but I don't get drops my level. That means I'm undergeared and have less money to boot. Mentoring people half my level, earning 50% experience and loot I haven't been able to use in 20-30 levels isn't an ideal long-term solution.So what are your thoughts? Do you face same/similar problems? Do you have ideas to help?

sfarugger

06-19-2007, 07:00 PM

Finding a tight knit group of friend, much less entire guild I guess would be key here. I know of your problem, in fact, we used to probably be in the same guild together on LDL at one point in time (Dardore/Phrogger).As time flies by ( cause we are having fun right <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) , people come and go. You make more friends, and more friends move on to other things. I know it's hard, I've encountered the same frustrations you've had. Nonetheless, welcome back, and I hope you find what you are looking for. The game is amazing in a great group of friends, but lonely and frustrating when solo <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Ijiamee

06-19-2007, 07:19 PM

I'm in a similar situation. I've come back to the game after a long break and my static are no longer playing.Going from always being in a full grp every time I logged in, to primarily soloing, is kind of a drag; I really want to spend some quality time doing all the single grp content.<img src="/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Oh well...lfgGl fiding what you're looking for.

Malkosha

06-19-2007, 07:19 PM

Aphlos@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>I titled this post "A common problem" because I do think the matter I'm about to put forward really is a huge issue in the various EQ2 communities, and I think many (though certainly not all) will see some similarity between their experiences and mine.I started EQ2 when it first opened. I was very excited about it and talked a few friends into trying it out with me. We had a truly amazing time, and spent many long nights enjoying the content in the game. As adventure packs and expansions came out, we dug into that as best as we could, but by then things had splintered a little. Today, I am the only one of the group to still play, and even I quit a few times. I wasn't angry at a change or unhappy with the game's direction. I was just a bit burnt out, and the time commitment to the game is great.But, I'm back. My friends are not, and they won't be back. One sold his account, so he's gone forever. Another pretty much lost interest and I would be shocked if she ever logged in again. Another just basically had her fill, did even more than I did in the game, and she seems to have decided she got what she could out of the game. So, it's just me. I'm in a guild - very nice people, but I don't know any of them really. I do watch the comings and goings enough to at least see that it's not a massively active guild.People move on. Its to be expected and the key for SOE is to bring in more people than they lose. Burnout just happens. So, the problem. There's lots of aspects of EQ2 that you can't experience alone, and there's content you can't experience outside of a raid. No, this isn't a post begging for more solo content, nor for less group/raid content development. I make the post just in the hope people will share their ideas, or at least say, "Hey, I don't know what to do but I totally understand where you're coming from."At any rate, there's lots of stuff I missed because it's gray to me now and I need(ed) a group/raid to do it before. Technically I could mentor down to enjoy it, but I still have the more significant problem - finding a group or raid who wants to do it. I have bits of every adventure pack I've never touched, much less expansions. Much less even the original quests. I've done many heritage quests, but doing them all seems all but impossible.There is so much content in this game you will never do it all with one char. While people roll alts all the time, they usually roll in the newer areas which can make playing in the old areas frustrating. Unless the population increases, I doubt this will change. Is the answer forcing grouping more? Some game developers think so, but I disagree. Sounds nice in theory - if people have to group, they will group. Unfortunately, I've spent too many nights in DDO, FFXI, etc. waiting for a group to agree with the notion that making them mandatory works. Anyone who's played DDO knows you pretty much have to group and you could spend a good amount of time looking for a group sometimes.Forced grouping will close this game down. Its an old school concept that is outdated and obsolete. If people have to group, as you say above, they won't group. They will leave to a game that allows them a choice. If enough leave the game is over. I bet about every one of us has something we'd like to do but can't do because of this grouping / raid issue. Whether it's take part in a certain massive raid, dig into the bits of splitpaw or bloodlines we missed, do some of the more arcane quests that groups take part in less, or anything else - almost all of us have something. At least on the non-PvP servers.So what's the solution? I have no idea. I know SOE's new group window is nice, but they can't force people to use it. I see anywhere from 0 to 2 groups looking for members at any given time. I've spent as much or more time mentoring down and playing content I did a long time ago as doing stuff my own level lately. The big problem there is that I not only miss out on stuff my level, but I don't get drops my level. That means I'm undergeared and have less money to boot. Mentoring people half my level, earning 50% experience and loot I haven't been able to use in 20-30 levels isn't an ideal long-term solution.So what are your thoughts? Do you face same/similar problems? Do you have ideas to help?</blockquote>Keep in mind that you will never do all the content on a single char. Given enough cash from a main, you could create an alt of the right class and run group content as a solo player. Something else to think about: If all you do is group or raid, you will miss out on lots of solo content that is very well done. At the same time, being a solo only player will lock you out of content as well. Also, try to start your own groups. Forget the classic Tank/Healer/DPS stuff and go for unique! If you are a Wizzy for instance, advertise for an all Wizzy group, or a group of casters only. Be creative and take charge. get people involved for the fun of it and don't make it "work" Sadly, the only real solution is for the population of this game to see a sudden influx of new players that you can party with. Until then you have to do the best with what you have.

DanaDark

06-19-2007, 07:28 PM

You know, I kinda miss how big the EQ1 world was. It's sheer size and lack of trivial loot code kept me interested in A LOT of things there. What killed EQ1 for me was it became too quick to get everywhere and the time commitment.For EQ2... I dont get to play 8 hours a day, every day. I play maybe 2 or 3... so I am going by slowly. So far the image of what I want my toon to be is what keeps me logging in...Hmm, MMOs just eventually... get old.

Savanja

06-19-2007, 07:55 PM

Well yeah..there is content that I'd like to do but it requires a group or a raid. So I wait until I can get a group or a raid to do it. Good guilds, being active in your community and making friends, checking out bigger guilds that do raiding and take pick up players for open spots in raids are all ways in which to combat this issue. MMORPGs are meant to encourage cooperative play, so there will always be (and there SHOULD always be) content that has to be completed with the cooperation of other players. It isn't forced grouping. As with RL, there are simply things that you cannot do by yourself, and the reward tends to be greater when you amass friends to accomplish things. If I choose to solo, it would be silly of me to think that I should be able to experience all of the content in game all by my lonesome.

Surething

06-19-2007, 08:15 PM

Developers don't force people to group; they force people to leave the game that don't want to group (and they take their money with them). This game was always meant to appeal to people that like to group and people that do not want to group. You just need to find the ones that want to group (that means you go to them, they will not come to you). In this game it is the players choice not the forced choice of the game mechanics.

cronar

06-19-2007, 08:48 PM

The root of the problem is the idea that every mob is not created equally. If they would go back to the everquest idea that a mob is a mob is a mob, then you would find it a much larger world to play in. When the game was developed, someone had the brainchild to mark mobs as solo/heroic/epic. This idea alienated a massive percentage of the everquest fan base who don't want their hand held quite so much. To add insult beyond this is the idea of preformated encounters. Linked sets of mobs for your pulling enjoyment.There isn't much you can do about the raid stuff. Keep those tagged as epic, but the rest they should remove the lables, remove the links and let people discover how to play again.

Lilj

06-19-2007, 09:02 PM

I agree with the person that said that one char can't see it all. But I think the game has several tools that can make it easier for one char to see much more. I see both mentoring and xp locking as such tools. But to the OP, yes sometimes I feel I'm in the same boat as you. But my play style is very wide spread and this way I get to see a good amount of the content. I both solo and group, I tradeskill a lot, I harvest a lot, I quest a lot. I recently bought a bigger house and have had lots of fun decorating the place. I have 5 alts. When I do all this, I am almost certain I can find something fun and interesting to do when I feel like playing. I personally believe that if you do a lot of different things in the game, it is hard to run out of content (but it is of course possible). But people do come and go in a game like this and friends will disappear over time, this is unfortunate, but I doubt there is anything to do about it. You call it a problem and I understand why you say so. But I have a feeling it is more the 'nature' of the beast that is a MMORPG. But I can see where you come from and I understand it, since I sometimes experience it myself. I hope you can find a good way to overcome your problem. Good luck <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Jeridor

06-20-2007, 12:05 AM

Thanks for all of the replies from everyone! I suppose in writing this post, I wanted to open up a little debate about the concept of a loose community where groups may be a bit difficult to find and the worlds seem a little sparse, yet one can access a lot of the content solo. I do understand that it's a common issue in mmorpg's (that is, keeping communities tight and having plenty of grouping choices), but I have a hard time regarding it as "acceptable" or "inevitable", perhaps because I do love EQ2 and I personally feed this "nature of the beast"is harmful. I feel like it leads to a loss of players (and therefore a circular problem.)I guess my two questions are:1. Do you think think this sort of loose society is harmful to games/eq2?2. What do you think can be done to help, if anything?

Rahatmattata

06-20-2007, 12:07 AM

<cite>Malkosha wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aphlos@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Forced grouping will close this game down. Its an old school concept that is outdated and obsolete. If people have to group, as you say above, they won't group. They will leave to a game that allows them a choice. If enough leave the game is over.</blockquote> </blockquote> Kinda funny you said that. Last year FFXI (forced grouping) had over twice the population of EQ2. EQ also had a higher population according to <a href="http://www.mmogchart.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.mmogchart.com/</a> FFXI has some huge time sinks and it takes a really long time compared to EQ2 to make money, gain xp, travel, and do just about anything. And yet the population in FFXI puts EQ2 to shame.I think the reason EQ2 is behind in population is because it's such an easy game. Don't get me wrong, I like EQ2 more than any other MMO available, but my god is it easy to play. I can't comment on EQ1 too much cuz I never played it for a month, but FFXI is definatly a hard game. Travel is significant and has meaning. Death is significant and has meaning. Killing named mobs is a challenge and always under intense competition. When you do get to claim a named you actually get a rush. Heart jumps a bit, starts beating faster, hoping for some phat lewtz but knowing the drop rate is something like 1 in 20. Some questlines involve camping multiple ultra rare named that only spawn once a week. If someone has a black belt for example, you know they earned that and spent some serious time and effort to get it.To put it in EQ2 terms... imagine, if you will, setting your bind point in Qeynos Harbor. Now run from Antonica to Coldwind Point in TS with 0% run speed and no griffons. Then wait 15min to jump on a 20min boat ride to Nek Docks. From there run to Freeport. Now, sprinkle some green to yellow kos heroics all along the way. If you aggro one, it won't stop chasing you until you zone, and if you die you have 1 hour to be revived or you have to respawn back in Qeynos Harbor. Now imagine if you chose to respawn at your bind point, you get 10% xp debt. Tell me then how long you are going to hang out in groups that wipe all the time, or be careless where you go. People might think twice about closing their eyes and firing off an arrow into the back of a room full of social mobs.I like EQ2, but have been questioning myself and why I keep playing, and if I want to continue playing or move on to something else. I think really it all comes down to a lack of challenge and a lack of variety in groups. WC/BB > SH/FG > RoV > RE > CT > Clefts/Klak and then the same T7 instances with 0 competition and 0 player interaction outside the group gets old tbh. Try finding a group to do some of the heroic book quests in Rivervale. Or a group to do the quests in Condemned Catacombs. Find a group to run Vestibule or the ring events in the bowls of Obelisk of Lost Souls, or Bastion of Flames in Solusek's Eye. I can go on and on and on naming zones and quests that are almost impossible to ever get a group/raid to goto.Forced grouping doesn't kill games IMO, lack of grouping and short playtime to level cap do IMO.

Jeridor

06-20-2007, 12:44 AM

I honestly completely disagree. Consider:EQ - Pioneering game, players don't want to give up achievements for newer games.WoW - Easy game, popular because of its easy arcade feel.FFXI - Wide distribution in Japan, rides the coattails of one of the most popular RPG series ever (I'd say THE, except maybe Zelda series as the only competitor really. IMO, FF is still THE leader.)Personally, I think FFXI is a -horrible- game, in part because of its hard gameplay.You can also compare games such as DDO for instance. It -requires- grouping, it is not an optional playstyle. Why isn't DDO raking it in if this is a boon to sales?In all my exposure to multiplayer games, I have yet to see anything that backs up the notion that the more challenging a game is, the more people enjoy playing it. There's plenty of reasons to see it the other way around - consider the frustration of losing good items forever on a failed corpse recovery run, for instance. I remember playing a Ranger in FFXI and pulling mobs for groups in areas where I had to avoid falling through holes in the floor that were guaranteed death, while trying to get to my group asap and running through multiple rooms etc in the process. Sure, it may make you feel accomplished, but if you fall to your demise (or even worse, fall to your demise and can't get your corpse back) it becomes easy to understand that this "challenge" may just be a tedious and needless exercise that doesn't add actual fun to the experience.

Rahatmattata

06-20-2007, 08:12 AM

Aphlos@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Personally, I think FFXI is a -horrible- game, in part because of its hard gameplay.I can respect that, but realize half a million people disagree with you.You can also compare games such as DDO for instance. It -requires- grouping, it is not an optional playstyle. Why isn't DDO raking it in if this is a boon to sales?Never played that, but isn't the level cap like 20 and it's purely instanced? Have no idea of the gameplay either.... maybe it sucks <img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In all my exposure to multiplayer games, I have yet to see anything that backs up the notion that the more challenging a game is, the more people enjoy playing it. There's plenty of reasons to see it the other way around - consider the frustration of losing good items forever on a failed corpse recovery run, for instance. I remember playing a Ranger in FFXI and pulling mobs for groups in areas where I had to avoid falling through holes in the floor that were guaranteed death, while trying to get to my group asap and running through multiple rooms etc in the process. Sure, it may make you feel accomplished, but if you fall to your demise (or even worse, fall to your demise and can't get your corpse back) it becomes easy to understand that this "challenge" may just be a tedious and needless exercise that doesn't add actual fun to the experience.There are no corpse runs in FFXi and death isn't supposed to be fun, it's *supposed* to suck.</blockquote>

Ithilmar

06-20-2007, 08:29 AM

<blockquote>I can respect that, but realize half a million people disagree with you.</blockquote> have to remember also that FFXI was one of the first big name following that came out. While SWG was out slightly before FFXI, Star wars still has a stigma attached to it, but there isn't many people out there who can say they haven't been a fan of the Final Fantasy series. While EQ2 might be a decent game, it holds the stigma of EQ and people playing till they died, and other stories of that nature. Final Fantasy, and you can also see this in the WoW groups, has die hard fans, not because the game is good or even great, but because they are fans of the series as a whole. As a whole, the hardcore games like FFXI and L2 are going the way of the dodo. Newer games, and the newer gen of MMO players just don't want to spend hours grinding for that one more level, they want results, and they want it now. You can see it through WoWs amazing popularity, AoC coming out this year, WAR next, LotR, ect. While FFXI may very well have 500K subs, have to remember that the year TAU was released on the 360, that was completely new system and a new Xpack, and yet subscription numbers remained stagnet, and that data was published in SE's own Vana'diel census, and it has remained 500K subs before and every year after. They aren't gaining any new players, and more then likely people feel they have done so much they want to keep their toons, remember that SE deletes your character after 1 year, with no way to get back. If you take a break for a while, you lose everything.

Lilj

06-20-2007, 08:43 AM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aphlos@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Personally, I think FFXI is a -horrible- game, in part because of its hard gameplay.I can respect that, but realize half a million people disagree with you.You can also compare games such as DDO for instance. It -requires- grouping, it is not an optional playstyle. Why isn't DDO raking it in if this is a boon to sales?Never played that, but isn't the level cap like 20 and it's purely instanced? Have no idea of the gameplay either.... maybe it sucks <img src="/smilies/0a4d7238daa496a758252d0a2b1a1384.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In all my exposure to multiplayer games, I have yet to see anything that backs up the notion that the more challenging a game is, the more people enjoy playing it. There's plenty of reasons to see it the other way around - consider the frustration of losing good items forever on a failed corpse recovery run, for instance. I remember playing a Ranger in FFXI and pulling mobs for groups in areas where I had to avoid falling through holes in the floor that were guaranteed death, while trying to get to my group asap and running through multiple rooms etc in the process. Sure, it may make you feel accomplished, but if you fall to your demise (or even worse, fall to your demise and can't get your corpse back) it becomes easy to understand that this "challenge" may just be a tedious and needless exercise that doesn't add actual fun to the experience.There are no corpse runs in FFXi and death isn't supposed to be fun, it's *supposed* to suck.</blockquote> </blockquote>You ask about the level cap in DDO. Players can become lvl 14 at this point, but since every level has a sub-level, it can be tricky to decide how many levels there are. Some would say 14 and some would say 56 and both would be correct in a way. DDO is quite different compared to the traditionel MMO's in the way combat works, so it can be difficult to compare that game directly to other games.

Ysandre

06-20-2007, 09:03 AM

Aphlos@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>I guess my two questions are:1. Do you think think this sort of loose society is harmful to games/eq2?2. What do you think can be done to help, if anything?</blockquote>I've played EQ1 / WoW / LOTRO and others as well as my (now 3rd) return to EQ2. EQ2 definitely seems sparsely populated (on my EU server at least) but I think some of that has to come down to SOE's marketing or lack therof. Its almost impossible to get hold of a copy of the game in the UK and most of the on-line places say out of stock. Obviously this is not going to help the playerbase. The main reason we returned to EQ2 from LOTRO is that my partner and I were stuck in LOTRO at 34 or so to find things a duo could do. There is so much solo/small group content in EQ2 that it can sometimes be overwhelming. Which is I think the reason the 2 friends we brought with us from WoW the first time didnt last long. They were very used to quite a linear progression and couldn't get to grips with the size of EQ's game world. Gamers have changed also since EQ1. We were happy to grind for days to see a pixel of xp/aa movement. Raiding was repetative and laggy (Healers seemed to spend most of the time looking at the wall inbetween their turn to fire off a heal.) These days there are so many more options. WoW brought in the immediate gratification of fast easy levelling and grinding rep for 'cool' items, a decent pvp and raid system. There are now many more games to choose from than a few years back and peoples attention span is alot shorter. I played EQ1 for 5 years, WoW 2 years and now its only been a couple of months in LOTRO and I'm already drifting from it (although I like the game alot). This level of choice and the gamers constant desire for new and interesting content has made the whole MMO market alot more fluid. Gamers will switch games to try out the latest 'thing'. Sometimes they will come back, mostly the new stuff keeps people amused for a few months until the next greatest thing come along. Then even if the original game releases new content, by then people have moved on anyway. As for a solution well thats tricky and I'm sure if there was an easy answer you can be dam* sure the companies would implement it as subs = cash of course. For the player all I can think you can do is be prepared to start again in a new community every few months as people move on, talk to players, make new friends or if you are lucky bring some with you from your previous game. A large guild will help as it gives you more choice of groups but some people (myself included) don't like the constant chatter a large guild will generate. But in the end, be prepared to solo for a bit while you establish your character in a new environment/group/guild/kinship or whatever.

Malkosha

06-20-2007, 10:59 AM

<cite>cronar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The root of the problem is the idea that every mob is not created equally. If they would go back to the everquest idea that a mob is a mob is a mob, then you would find it a much larger world to play in. When the game was developed, someone had the brainchild to mark mobs as solo/heroic/epic. This idea alienated a massive percentage of the everquest fan base who don't want their hand held quite so much. To add insult beyond this is the idea of preformated encounters. Linked sets of mobs for your pulling enjoyment.There isn't much you can do about the raid stuff. Keep those tagged as epic, but the rest they should remove the lables, remove the links and let people discover how to play again.</blockquote> Please don't get me started on this one. <img src="/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I never have liked the whole Solo/Grouped/Linked/Epic ^^^ crap from day one. It cuts down on creative playing and limits options. If they could make on single change that would increase my fun in this game, that would be it.

Allisia

06-20-2007, 12:39 PM

<cite>Malkosha wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please don't get me started on this one. <img src="/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I never have liked the whole Solo/Grouped/Linked/Epic ^^^ crap from day one. It cuts down on creative playing and limits options. If they could make on single change that would increase my fun in this game, that would be it.</blockquote>I agree. I've always felt it was a case of too much mechanics for it's own good. Further, I feel they make too much liberal use of triple up mobs through out the game. Use double ups for standard group content, and triple ups for nameds. That's ones aspect of EQ2 I've learned to accept but have never liked.

Vifarc

06-20-2007, 12:53 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>Malkosha wrote: I think the reason EQ2 is behind in population is because it's such an easy game. Don't get me wrong, I like EQ2 more than any other MMO available, but my god is it easy to play. I can't comment on EQ1 too much cuz I never played it for a month, but FFXI is definatly a hard game. Travel is significant and has meaning. Death is significant and has meaning. Killing named mobs is a challenge and always under intense competition. When you do get to claim a named you actually get a rush. Heart jumps a bit, starts beating faster, hoping for some phat lewtz but knowing the drop rate is something like 1 in 20. Some questlines involve camping multiple ultra rare named that only spawn once a week. If someone has a black belt for example, you know they earned that and spent some serious time and effort to get it.To put it in EQ2 terms... imagine, if you will, setting your bind point in Qeynos Harbor. Now run from Antonica to Coldwind Point in TS with 0% run speed and no griffons. Then wait 15min to jump on a 20min boat ride to Nek Docks. From there run to Freeport. Now, sprinkle some green to yellow kos heroics all along the way. If you aggro one, it won't stop chasing you until you zone, and if you die you have 1 hour to be revived or you have to respawn back in Qeynos Harbor. Now imagine if you chose to respawn at your bind point, you get 10% xp debt. Tell me then how long you are going to hang out in groups that wipe all the time, or be careless where you go. People might think twice about closing their eyes and firing off an arrow into the back of a room full of social mobs.</blockquote>EQ1 is (was?, I quit just after Luclin) a little less as hardcore as FFXI. Ok, hardcore is way being immersive, but if you can't follow this hard way (guild crash, bad times in not luckily meeting bad players), it's also very boring. That's why EQ2 is good: When you are in bad times, you can always play more than in EQ1/FFXI as it is easier.

Dasein

06-20-2007, 12:53 PM

I find the EQ2 encounter system to be one of the best, to the point where I cannot really think of playing a game that does not use a similar system. To me the system is very intuitive and organic, and works very well with the rest of the game. Also, for those wondering about FFXI, it is also one of the few, if not the only, console-driven MMO, which gives it a pretty big, exclusive market.

Raveller

06-20-2007, 01:19 PM

Aphlos@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>So what are your thoughts? Do you face same/similar problems? Do you have ideas to help?</blockquote> Move off of LDL. Do you remember junior high when everyone was in little cliques and would not associate with anyone outside of their clique because everyone was so incredibly insecure and afraid? That's LDL. Move to a different server.

Raveller

06-20-2007, 01:22 PM

<cite>Ithilmar wrote:</cite><blockquote> there isn't many people out there who can say they haven't been a fan of the Final Fantasy series. </blockquote> What is the Final Fantasy series? Is that something worth Googling?Nevermind, I found it. It's just more of that anime crap.

Malkosha

06-20-2007, 01:44 PM

<cite>Vifarc wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>Malkosha wrote: I think the reason EQ2 is behind in population is because it's such an easy game. Don't get me wrong, I like EQ2 more than any other MMO available, but my god is it easy to play. I can't comment on EQ1 too much cuz I never played it for a month, but FFXI is definatly a hard game. Travel is significant and has meaning. Death is significant and has meaning. Killing named mobs is a challenge and always under intense competition. When you do get to claim a named you actually get a rush. Heart jumps a bit, starts beating faster, hoping for some phat lewtz but knowing the drop rate is something like 1 in 20. Some questlines involve camping multiple ultra rare named that only spawn once a week. If someone has a black belt for example, you know they earned that and spent some serious time and effort to get it.To put it in EQ2 terms... imagine, if you will, setting your bind point in Qeynos Harbor. Now run from Antonica to Coldwind Point in TS with 0% run speed and no griffons. Then wait 15min to jump on a 20min boat ride to Nek Docks. From there run to Freeport. Now, sprinkle some green to yellow kos heroics all along the way. If you aggro one, it won't stop chasing you until you zone, and if you die you have 1 hour to be revived or you have to respawn back in Qeynos Harbor. Now imagine if you chose to respawn at your bind point, you get 10% xp debt. Tell me then how long you are going to hang out in groups that wipe all the time, or be careless where you go. People might think twice about closing their eyes and firing off an arrow into the back of a room full of social mobs.</blockquote>EQ1 is (was?, I quit just after Luclin) a little less as hardcore as FFXI. Ok, hardcore is way being immersive, but if you can't follow this hard way (guild crash, bad times in not luckily meeting bad players), it's also very boring. That's why EQ2 is good: When you are in bad times, you can always play more than in EQ1/FFXI as it is easier. </blockquote>Not sure it matters much, to me anyway, but that is not my quote <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Malkosha

06-20-2007, 01:51 PM

Aphlos@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Thanks for all of the replies from everyone! I suppose in writing this post, I wanted to open up a little debate about the concept of a loose community where groups may be a bit difficult to find and the worlds seem a little sparse, yet one can access a lot of the content solo. I do understand that it's a common issue in mmorpg's (that is, keeping communities tight and having plenty of grouping choices), but I have a hard time regarding it as "acceptable" or "inevitable", perhaps because I do love EQ2 and I personally feed this "nature of the beast"is harmful. I feel like it leads to a loss of players (and therefore a circular problem.)I guess my two questions are:1. Do you think think this sort of loose society is harmful to games/eq2?Not at all. Remember, of the "big three" only EQ1 had the whole forced grouping thing going on. It was the most popular of the three but how much of that was due to the games ability to use the latest 3D hardware, used by many FPS players in those days, and how much had to do with forced socialization remains to be seen. These day, players don't have lots of time to grind away in groups and unlike the earlier games, modern games are much more quest based vs. grinding. Social skills exist outside of grouping in most modern MMORPG's and in many ways grouping up to kill stuff is the least of these social skills since for the most part its nothing more than follow the leader. While there are diehard EQ1 people who simply don't understand why someone wants to solo in a MMORPG (they have no reference point), many players would love to have the choice. Grouping can be fun and while I feel its important to include these mechanics in any modern game, there has to be a balance to the point where people feel they have a choice. Choices are good.2. What do you think can be done to help, if anything?There is nothing I can see to help except for SoE to suck in a good deal more players. They have this huge world filled with interesting content, which has been out for around 3 years. While the game has held up very well, the population has tended to thin and spread out. The larger the world and more diverse the population levels, the more sparse the player base seems at any given location. If I were SoE, I would stop creating new lands which would spread the population out even thinner. Content could be added that doesn't increase the landmass. Also, to me, EQ2 is the best MMORPG no one seems to know about. Somehow this needs to change because while I do play other MMORPG's (I think I've played just about every one from the beta of UO forward) none of the new offerings has anything close to the content and flair of EQ2. This tells me that Eq2 can still be competitive providing that people know its there. Out of sight out of mind. An old cliché but appropriate I think.</blockquote>

CHIMPNOODLE.

06-20-2007, 01:54 PM

Sounds like the OP just needs to find the right group of people with similar interests, or a guild that enjoys hitting the same content he does. They're out there...and there is always the option of starting you're own, or intiating events <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />