Illusionist or Necromancer? - PvE

[Khandor]

I know there's been threads like this and whatnot, but I've been debating this for well over a week. I'm posting a similar thread in necromancer as well cuz I know people usually say they like their own class the best. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But anyways, I got a 70 monk, which I love to play, but I wanted to be a caster role, plus I'm somewhat comming back after a year of being away from EQ2 as well. I'm not sure what exactly I'm looking for, I guess a class that is fun to jump onto when I get bored of my monk on the offdays. I have a zerker, which is fun, but I don't care to tank so much, plus from what I see there's tons of zerkers from what I can see. I also have a wizard I'm working up atm, which is fun, but I wanted to try something that uses pets to some extent. I've had friends who play illusionist and the forms and such always looked really neat and fun to try out, so I was considering an illusionist class. Anyways, I just kinda wanna know why people play their Illusionists as their mains, why people continue to play it, what's fun about it, pros/cons etc. Thanks. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Controlor]

<cite>Khandor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know there's been threads like this and whatnot, but I've been debating this for well over a week. I'm posting a similar thread in necromancer as well cuz I know people usually say they like their own class the best. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But anyways, I got a 70 monk, which I love to play, but I wanted to be a caster role, plus I'm somewhat comming back after a year of being away from EQ2 as well. I'm not sure what exactly I'm looking for, I guess a class that is fun to jump onto when I get bored of my monk on the offdays. I have a zerker, which is fun, but I don't care to tank so much, plus from what I see there's tons of zerkers from what I can see. I also have a wizard I'm working up atm, which is fun, but I wanted to try something that uses pets to some extent. I've had friends who play illusionist and the forms and such always looked really neat and fun to try out, so I was considering an illusionist class. Anyways, I just kinda wanna know why people play their Illusionists as their mains, why people continue to play it, what's fun about it, pros/cons etc. Thanks. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote>Raw power, Versatility, and i love enchanters (reason i play it). IF your looking for a class that is not played by many go with an Illy over necro. Summoners (conj/necro) is a dime a dozen but enchanters are one of the least played classes in game. We are semi difficult until mid 30's then its all free rollin down hills. Terms of soloing Illy > Necro. In terms of DPS Necro > Illy. Groups love both necros for dps and illys for buff / cc etc. Raid depends how many you have if you have 0 enchanters than illy > necro if you have 3+ enchanters necro > illy. Illusionists do have a pet yes but the downside is that our pet costs 3 conc vs the 1 for a necro. Necros have more dumfire pets than we do (we get one they get swarms). I just love illys tho heh. Its a lot easier to turn heads as an illy than a necro. That is you have more chances to suprise peeps and have them go WOW i didnt knwo you could do that on an illusionist vs a necro. Just for our crowd controling and spell slinging abilities.

[Khandor]

Controlor wrote:<blockquote>Raw power, Versatility, and i love enchanters (reason i play it). IF your looking for a class that is not played by many go with an Illy over necro. Summoners (conj/necro) is a dime a dozen but enchanters are one of the least played classes in game. We are semi difficult until mid 30's then its all free rollin down hills. Terms of soloing Illy > Necro. In terms of DPS Necro > Illy. Groups love both necros for dps and illys for buff / cc etc. Raid depends how many you have if you have 0 enchanters than illy > necro if you have 3+ enchanters necro > illy. Illusionists do have a pet yes but the downside is that our pet costs 3 conc vs the 1 for a necro. Necros have more dumfire pets than we do (we get one they get swarms). I just love illys tho heh. Its a lot easier to turn heads as an illy than a necro. That is you have more chances to suprise peeps and have them go WOW i didnt knwo you could do that on an illusionist vs a necro. Just for our crowd controling and spell slinging abilities. </blockquote> Heh, I'll take that into consideration. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I also am trying to decide between Ratonga vs Iksar if I did go Illy or not. My friends were all ratonga, yet I have all iksar characters! I don't know if the character will ever raid or not.. I quit my last guild because of people who were just jerks and whatnot, and since this is just a primary alt, I really am not certain whether the character will make it into raids. But ya never know.

[Bithnar]

<cite>Khandor wrote:</cite><blockquote> Heh, I'll take that into consideration. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I also am trying to decide between Ratonga vs Iksar if I did go Illy or not. My friends were all ratonga, yet I have all iksar characters! I don't know if the character will ever raid or not.. I quit my last guild because of people who were just jerks and whatnot, and since this is just a primary alt, I really am not certain whether the character will make it into raids. But ya never know. </blockquote><p> Just remember Illusionists are good toons so you'll need to make a coercer if you want Iksar or Ratonga.  I made an Ogre coercer and betrayed to illusionist.  I did it when I was lvl 13 or 14 and it was a pain so I leveled up to 15 to get invisibility.  Once I had invisibility gaining the faction I needed to complete betrayal became easy.</p><p>Go to the npc faction quest giver in the Commonlands and ask for the quest that will get you really noticed by Qeynos its the +5,000 Qeynos faction one, you'll need to complete these quests 12 times to get the needed 10,000 positive faction needed to become a citizen of Qeynos (you start at -50,000).</p><p>Get the one that's labled "The Captain's Ring" (I think thats the name, you have to get a ring and return it to the quest npc).  Go to the instance in East Freeport (I think, or may be south freeport, the quest will say) by the boat.  To get there quick go through the graveyard to long shadow to the sewers to east(south) freeport.</p><p>Once inside the instance (or before) invis yourself.  Hug the left wall once you enter the instance, 2 mobs see invis but you wont aggo the bartender if you stay close to the left wall.  The other see invis mob is a pather.  When you enter the instance the pather is upstairs.  They will come down the stairs and go to the back room and then come out again and up the stairs.  Time it right and go up the stairs once the pather heads to the back room.</p><p>On your way up the stairs grab the shovel at the bottom of the stairs.  Go up the stairs and to the back corner to a pile of dirt.  Dig (right click) in the dirt and get a key.  Head out of the room and jump down along the wall you previoulsy hugged to avoid the bartender.</p><p>By this time the pather will be coming out of the back room.  Wait till they head up the stairs and then head to the back room.  One of the wardrobes(sp) in the back is clickable.  Click on it and get the ring.  Head out of the room and out of the instance.  Return to quest giver.  Rinse and repeat 11 more times and you can now head to Qeynos to become an Illusionist.  Once I realized how to do this it took me about 3 hours or running back and forth to complete.</p><p>The Npc will give different quests each time just keep deleteing and rehailing until you get the captains ring one.</p><p>I am probably going to move to Kelethin just cause the thought of an oger illusionist in Kelethin tickles me . . . now if I could only get a pair of false wings to wear <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Manyak]

<p>After playing both, it comes down to this....</p><p>Solo: </p><p>An Illusionist can kill many, MANY nameds that a Necro won't be able to before they almost grey out, since the Illu won't take a single point of damage when done properly. So you'd prolly get AAs alot easier.</p><p>But the Necro will be able to tear through zones faster than an illusionist because no time will be wasted mezzing or whatever, and if you DO get hit, you can heal yourself faster between fights (or during, whatever).</p><p>Group:</p><p>Illusionists are better for straight grinding, since the mana regen will allow for non-stop pulls. Also, with the AGI line, can dish out damage fast enough to keep up with other DPS classes in the group.</p><p>Necros are better for questing and stuff. Since they can FD and rez and i dunno what, that saves time in a dungeon crawl, or in really tough instances. Plus on the nameds with alot of HP, when they actually have enough time to let their dots tick and swarm pets attack, they will do more DPS than the illusionist.</p><p>Raid:</p><p>Illusionists can do great DPS, but on the really tough fights will have to sacrifice a bit of it for extra mana regen for the group. Plus, you are gonna get lots of tells at every raid askin for buffs, cuz everyone loves them.</p><p>Necros do more DPS than illus at raids, but dont buff at all. End of story. Though youd need a good druid to heal your lifeburns.</p>

[Zard]

<cite>Khandor wrote:</cite><blockquote> I've had friends who play illusionist and the forms and such always looked really neat and fun to try out, so I was considering an illusionist class. </blockquote> Unfortunately, Illusionists have some of the <i>least</i> interesting illusions and all can be accomplished by <i>any</i> other class using a Petrified Eye. We do, however, have a two group illusions, Human and Gnoll, which can be good for a laugh. They are fun to cast when pets are up since the pets change form -- and sometimes gender -- too. You can also cast an illusion on yourself, summon your pet and your pet will take that form too since they take <i>your</i> form at the time of casting. You used to (I think this changed recently?) be able to cancel the illusion on yourself but the pet's illusion would stay so you could run around with an unusual pet, like an Ogre, Droag or Orc, while in you remained in your original form.

[Khandor]

<cite>Bithnar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just remember Illusionists are good toons so you'll need to make a coercer if you want Iksar or Ratonga.  I made an Ogre coercer and betrayed to illusionist.  I did it when I was lvl 13 or 14 and it was a pain so I leveled up to 15 to get invisibility.  Once I had invisibility gaining the faction I needed to complete betrayal became easy.<p>Go to the npc faction quest giver in the Commonlands and ask for the quest that will get you really noticed by Qeynos its the +5,000 Qeynos faction one, you'll need to complete these quests 12 times to get the needed 10,000 positive faction needed to become a citizen of Qeynos (you start at -50,000).</p><p>Get the one that's labled "The Captain's Ring" (I think thats the name, you have to get a ring and return it to the quest npc).  Go to the instance in East Freeport (I think, or may be south freeport, the quest will say) by the boat.  To get there quick go through the graveyard to long shadow to the sewers to east(south) freeport.</p><p>Once inside the instance (or before) invis yourself.  Hug the left wall once you enter the instance, 2 mobs see invis but you wont aggo the bartender if you stay close to the left wall.  The other see invis mob is a pather.  When you enter the instance the pather is upstairs.  They will come down the stairs and go to the back room and then come out again and up the stairs.  Time it right and go up the stairs once the pather heads to the back room.</p><p>On your way up the stairs grab the shovel at the bottom of the stairs.  Go up the stairs and to the back corner to a pile of dirt.  Dig (right click) in the dirt and get a key.  Head out of the room and jump down along the wall you previoulsy hugged to avoid the bartender.</p><p>By this time the pather will be coming out of the back room.  Wait till they head up the stairs and then head to the back room.  One of the wardrobes(sp) in the back is clickable.  Click on it and get the ring.  Head out of the room and out of the instance.  Return to quest giver.  Rinse and repeat 11 more times and you can now head to Qeynos to become an Illusionist.  Once I realized how to do this it took me about 3 hours or running back and forth to complete.</p><p>The Npc will give different quests each time just keep deleteing and rehailing until you get the captains ring one.</p><p>I am probably going to move to Kelethin just cause the thought of an oger illusionist in Kelethin tickles me . . . now if I could only get a pair of false wings to wear <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote> Heh, I'm very much aware of this, I have been a betrayer since day 1. Almost every one of my iksar characters has betrayed, except my assassin. Even my zerker and wizard. In fact, my first character, my paladin, betrayed near launch when betrayal was EXTREMLY hard to do, and more fun. The new betrayal is a joke really. And to be honest, the defector is the easiest overall to do, you just talk to the guy and run out to the exit, you don't even have to kill anything if you got enough health. :b I think the funniest thing I have ever seen, was an ogre ranger, that was hillarious. To Manyak: I haven't been playing for almost a year, and to be honest, the guild I was in never really had an illusionist, so I really never got to raid with em, so I appreciate the information. I never once thought of an illusionist as having great DPS overall. As for the buffs, I just dunno. Heh, in WoW I had a character that never buffed, and I thought I would really enjoy buffing, so I made a character that does buff a lot, and now at endgame, I wanna STAB everyone in the FACE with a SCREWDRIVER cuz of their annoying "BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME" messages. ;b But unlike WoW, the buffs here need to be cast only once, usually. To Zardoz: Yea, that's one of the things I'm looking at, the illusions are not that great, and with my monk at least, I have almost every petrified eye *only missing two.* So I got the ability to be whatever I want, though getting those stupid bones can be a pain at times. When I last played a year ago, my friend would do that with his pet, where he would be his normal self, but be walking around with his pet looking totally different. My friend did impress me quite a bit, but we never grouped very often, so to be honest, I never really knew what the core of the class was. Thanks for all the info guys. :b

[Zard]

<cite>Khandor wrote:</cite><blockquote> I think the funniest thing I have ever seen, was an ogre ranger, that was hillarious. </blockquote><p>Ever seen a Fae Ranger with the Ogre illusion?  The wings scale with the model but are still present so they look like a 400-pound Cupid plinking arrows!</p>

[Khandor]

Lol I haven't, I haven't been back long enough to see that. ;b

[Bithnar]

<cite>Khandor wrote:</cite><blockquote> And to be honest, the defector is the easiest overall to do, you just talk to the guy and run out to the exit, you don't even have to kill anything if you got enough health. :b </blockquote><p>Oh Sure, now you tell me :p</p><p>I'll have to keep that in mind if I ever do a betrayal again</p>

[Controlor]

*Khandor* In regards to your dps mentiong. Illys can easily do 1.5k+ heck some say they can do 2k+. Manyak prob can do 2k+ tho as he is in SoN (Currently cornering market of the avatars on BB server..... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) heh. But for peeps who havent done all of EoF 1-1.5k is still easily attainable. I am currently KoS fabled / legendary (havent had a set peice in EoF drop yet for me *cry*) And can do 1k zonewide with agi/wis. If i was agi/int i could easily hit the 1.5k mark tho. But yah we enchanters arnt looked at as dps classes sept by the high end guilds heh.

[Manyak]

<cite>Khandor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I haven't been playing for almost a year, and to be honest, the guild I was in never really had an illusionist, so I really never got to raid with em, so I appreciate the information. I never once thought of an illusionist as having great DPS overall. As for the buffs, I just dunno. Heh, in WoW I had a character that never buffed, and I thought I would really enjoy buffing, so I made a character that does buff a lot, and now at endgame, I wanna STAB everyone in the FACE with a SCREWDRIVER cuz of their annoying "BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME BUFF ME" messages. ;b But unlike WoW, the buffs here need to be cast only once, usually. </blockquote><p> How much DPS an illusionist does is highly dependent on raid setup and gear - if an illusionist has lots of damage and mana procs, and has a troub+wiz in group (possibly even 2 wizards), he can get anywhere between 3k and 4.5k single target. In a melee group with a dirge and no pet out, that same illu would end up getting about a 2k ZW. But without great gear, or with still a few masters missing, could prolly get 2.5k in a mage group and 1.5k in a melee group after a bit of practice with volatile magic. So yeah, depending on what buffs you get, you could definately compete on the parse as an illusionist, though probably not top zonewides (but necros can). Of course, ZWs always depend on how much dps the rest of the raid is doing, so who knows.</p><p>DISCLAIMER: I'm assuming that theres no lag when giving these numbers (though we all know how seldom that happens <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )!!!!!</p>

[Controlor]

Do note tho that to dps that high you HAVE to be Agi/Int speced full down both. Volitile magic is a straight 30% increase into our dps. Combine it with crits int line adds about 45-50% increase to dps. If your speced Agi/Sta or Agi/Wis expect lower dps than posted by mayak.

[Khandor]

Interesting stuff guys, all of it. But ya, like I said, never really had an illusionist in the guild, but the guild was a steaming pile of [Removed for Content], still is. But again, I don't know how much I'll be raiding with this guy.. if at all.. I got screwed so badly I really don't feel like joining a guild atm, it's more for a fun thing. *Plus I'm second officer in a high end raiding guild in WoW. lol So my time is limited.* And about the betrayal thing, it's easy ONLY if you can take the damage. You just stand as far back as possible from the NPC, hail, click the chat button and RUN LIKE HELL. My wiz can't make it. :/

[Manyak]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do note tho that to dps that high you HAVE to be Agi/Int speced full down both. Volitile magic is a straight 30% increase into our dps. Combine it with crits int line adds about 45-50% increase to dps. If your speced Agi/Sta or Agi/Wis expect lower dps than posted by mayak. </blockquote><p> To be absolutely honest, if it wasnt for the AGI/INT lines, i would find no reason to even sit at the computer for raids. CC doesnt do squat, and playing buffbot does not = fun <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </p>

[Controlor]

<cite>Manyak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do note tho that to dps that high you HAVE to be Agi/Int speced full down both. Volitile magic is a straight 30% increase into our dps. Combine it with crits int line adds about 45-50% increase to dps. If your speced Agi/Sta or Agi/Wis expect lower dps than posted by mayak. </blockquote><p> To be absolutely honest, if it wasnt for the AGI/INT lines, i would find no reason to even sit at the computer for raids. CC doesnt do squat, and playing buffbot does not = fun <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </p></blockquote>Your guild can take w/o CC tho. Currently i am needed for CC quite often in my guild. We have a bit low on the overall dps side.... and for about 2 months was only able to fill 3 group raids (just recently back to 4 group raids). So in my circumstance it was useful.... Not to mention if i am not raiding i am soloing and i LOVE wis line for soloing specially since they adding the reduced recast time for mezes. I still do a fair amount of dmg even tho i am agi/wis speced just not as much as i could do agi/int. Heck with agi/sta you can still do dmg. The TRUE buff bot illys are Sta/Wis. They prob cant even parse 1k *groan* i wont ever do that heh.

[Khandor]

What I do enjoy about illusionist class is that you do get to CC. I don't think I've EVER been a class in ANY mmo that has to CC.

[Manyak]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Manyak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do note tho that to dps that high you HAVE to be Agi/Int speced full down both. Volitile magic is a straight 30% increase into our dps. Combine it with crits int line adds about 45-50% increase to dps. If your speced Agi/Sta or Agi/Wis expect lower dps than posted by mayak. </blockquote><p> To be absolutely honest, if it wasnt for the AGI/INT lines, i would find no reason to even sit at the computer for raids. CC doesnt do squat, and playing buffbot does not = fun <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </p></blockquote>Your guild can take w/o CC tho. Currently i am needed for CC quite often in my guild. We have a bit low on the overall dps side.... and for about 2 months was only able to fill 3 group raids (just recently back to 4 group raids). So in my circumstance it was useful.... Not to mention if i am not raiding i am soloing and i LOVE wis line for soloing specially since they adding the reduced recast time for mezes. I still do a fair amount of dmg even tho i am agi/wis speced just not as much as i could do agi/int. Heck with agi/sta you can still do dmg. The TRUE buff bot illys are Sta/Wis. They prob cant even parse 1k *groan* i wont ever do that heh. </blockquote><p>Do me a big favor, and try this spec....</p><p>Kos tree - AGI/INT for DPS</p><p>EoF tree - Time line minus abolish hope, Enchanting line with only 1pt in cure arcane and no points in epiphany. Then put 5 points in empty mind and 2 points in regalia.</p><p>Then if you are gonna mezz in a raid, group up with a warlock, troub, or both. And use sentiment pre-pull.</p><p>Trust me, you will find yourself ALOT more beneficial to your guild like this, and you won't have to give up any mezzing capabilities. Subjugation caps at 450 for a 20% bonus, so troub+warlock+sentiment is over the cap anyway, and the wis line doesnt do anything. But you still get the 25% bonus from the EoF tree, and you don't have to give up a single BIT of dps to do it. Plus, even after sentiment goes down, with the much higher duration on those mezzes its extremely easy to hold 5+ mobs mezzed without breaking.</p>

[Controlor]

<cite>Manyak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Manyak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do note tho that to dps that high you HAVE to be Agi/Int speced full down both. Volitile magic is a straight 30% increase into our dps. Combine it with crits int line adds about 45-50% increase to dps. If your speced Agi/Sta or Agi/Wis expect lower dps than posted by mayak. </blockquote><p> To be absolutely honest, if it wasnt for the AGI/INT lines, i would find no reason to even sit at the computer for raids. CC doesnt do squat, and playing buffbot does not = fun <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. </p></blockquote>Your guild can take w/o CC tho. Currently i am needed for CC quite often in my guild. We have a bit low on the overall dps side.... and for about 2 months was only able to fill 3 group raids (just recently back to 4 group raids). So in my circumstance it was useful.... Not to mention if i am not raiding i am soloing and i LOVE wis line for soloing specially since they adding the reduced recast time for mezes. I still do a fair amount of dmg even tho i am agi/wis speced just not as much as i could do agi/int. Heck with agi/sta you can still do dmg. The TRUE buff bot illys are Sta/Wis. They prob cant even parse 1k *groan* i wont ever do that heh. </blockquote><p>Do me a big favor, and try this spec....</p><p>Kos tree - AGI/INT for DPS</p><p>EoF tree - Time line minus abolish hope, Enchanting line with only 1pt in cure arcane and no points in epiphany. Then put 5 points in empty mind and 2 points in regalia.</p><p>Then if you are gonna mezz in a raid, group up with a warlock, troub, or both. And use sentiment pre-pull.</p><p>Trust me, you will find yourself ALOT more beneficial to your guild like this, and you won't have to give up any mezzing capabilities. Subjugation caps at 450 for a 20% bonus, so troub+warlock+sentiment is over the cap anyway, and the wis line doesnt do anything. But you still get the 25% bonus from the EoF tree, and you don't have to give up a single BIT of dps to do it. Plus, even after sentiment goes down, with the much higher duration on those mezzes its extremely easy to hold 5+ mobs mezzed without breaking.</p></blockquote>I am close to that excluding the int spec. And the reason i am in wis spec is because i am hardly ever in mage group and we have no troub. I am usually in MT / OT group and main mezer because we lack dps classes. Usual raids we have 5-6 tanks 3-4 scouts and only 1 wizard others are mage / necro. So altho i know for higher dps it is agi/int and i know how to do that. For my current situation i need the extra subj not to mention they are adding a mez component to it. I go for proc gear over subj gear. I general do sentiment befor a pull that i need to mez anyways. Thanks tho. *Edit* oooh. And about any questions about a coercer the ONLY time we have a coercer is when an assassin who doesnt always make raids decides to 2 box his coercer. In which case he is in MT group and i am in OT group.