Player Code Of Honor (FAQ and Guide) [Archive]

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Ama

06-18-2007, 11:07 AM

I think it's time we all put forth our ideas of what is considered "Good Moral Conduct" within the player base. The Player, The Mob And The Kill StealerBe it a ring event or a general named mob whatever player reaches the entity first does have a quote "Right" to it. This is a generally accepted principal and considered "Common Curtesy" unless otherwise stated (Contested Epic Mobs can be considered a grey area). Now what this means is you can watch the player(s) take on said mob/ring event, but in no way shape or form interfer. You should not interfer because "Help" can be misunderstood as "Kill Stealing" if not done correctly. Only time you should even interfer is if the players ask for help. It may not net you any loot, but it will build up a "Reputation" for yourself as being an honest player within the community. If said player(s) dies, FDs, or Evacs during the course of the ring event/mob they forfit all rights to said mob. Feign Deathing is a grey area since you can do it by accident and still be alright, however even by accident you still forfit your right (Punish the monk not me i'm just siting the book). After that you and those around you have an equal opportunity to take on said mob. Reaching the mob first is the key and if your group does it first you have the right to it. However if the other group/player does then you should do the polite thing and "Back Down". Have been in many a furious rage because a group got a named mob first, but even while made I did the polite thing and "Backed Down".The Kill StealerSo we talked about the mob and the players along with the "Code of Conduct" book we all learn in MMOs. Now it's time to discuss a hated enemy "The Kill Stealer". These people have no reguard for the book and will take mobs just for the sake of "Loot" not considering the work others put into getting to that mob. Now it may not be "Acknowledge" kill stealing happens, but in truth it does. Kill Stealing has two forms in EQ2 that I have seen thus far. First is you seeing a name and preparing to face he/she/it waiting 2 seconds for that mana. If I see a player/players near a named encounter I will leave them alone. Even if they are plat sellers/farmers it is common curtesy not to disrupt them (if ya think they are plat sellers /report and /petition em that way they get removed for good). This is not the case with Kill Stealers in that they will take these mobs from said players. Equal Opportunity to a mob is a pretty BROAD range which sucks and is great that it is there. A Kill Stealer(s) will run in and take said mob from the group of players or player. At the moment if it is just one single mob there is nothing you can do about it. Sadly if the Kill Stealer just nabs 1 mob from you then leaves they may have needed it for a quest. Again it sucks but there is generally nothing that can be done about this. However if the Kill Stealer does this repeatedly after you spawn the named again even if it's with a new player there is something you can do about it. Your best bet is to "Warn" the player saying "I am filling a petition of Harrasement against you" and bluff em. Even if they "Complain" (aka B*** about it) saying "Mob is Free Game" it really isn't since your the one spawning the mob you do have some right to it due to the player's "Code of Conduct" honor code. Now if they come back a 3rd time you will file the petition for real this time with it not being a bluff. You wrote it off the 1st time, warned them/bluffed em the 2nd time and 3rd time "they are out" so to speak. Generally CSRs/GMs will deal with Harrasement very strictly even if it comes to mobs. Ring EventsThese are generally the same as single named mobs in that the player/group that starts it has an Ownership to it. Now dealing with trash mobs if someone runs by and pulls some mobs it will be by accident. However if they do it repeatedly then just say "Please Don't Interfer with the ring event" and leave it at that. If the players take the name you worked hard to get say "You do that to us again i'm petitioning you for Harrassement" and just walk away. Again if they start in on your ring event you started then file the petition as needed. State what happened, the player(s) names, and that you warned them saying "Please don't interfer with my/our ring" and "If you do it again i'm filling a Harrassement Petition Against You". Following these protocols CSRs/GMs will be in a better position to understand your plee. It can be said "You don't own a ring", but technically there is one event where "Yes" you do own it. In Sanctum Of The Scaleborn there is a ring event that you need a stone to initiate it. That item for that ring event isn't easy to come by and kill stealing of that calibre is the highest transgression imho. If you "accidentally" take a trash mob kill it and say "Sorry" then move on. However if they take the named there is no warning it is a straight charge or Harrassement. The reason for straight Harrassement is there is no creature in that area that does high grade knockbacks. I have tanked that area and healed in that area multiple times as the rest of my friends/brethrn have. There is plenty of room for no social aggro from the named and little chance to "accidentally" aggro it with AoEs. Node Harvesting This can be an especially grey area and needs to be taken into consideration by players and only players. To give a short gist of it the common rule is to leave 2 nodes that are near the player intact along with the one they are harvesting. Even if they are plat farmers/sellers it is common curtesy to do this so you build up your reputation. The line between those people is blurred so it is never easy to tell them apart 100% of the time. One thing you NEVER do and I MEAN NEVER do is go harvest the same node another player is doing. If a player does this warn them twice then send in a petition against them for harrassement. Sadly dealing with nodes there is very little that can be done. However if it comes down to the player "Training" you then it becomes very harrassing. EndI will add to this section once I have time to sit down and write more for the Player Code Of Honor the unspoken general rule of MMOers. Small Note: Some may ask why I mentioned "reputation" alot and that's due to the fact rep. can make or break you in any MMO. Due to my strict honor I have made a great reputation for myself on the Kithicor server as Amana the Warden healer and Saxx The Shadowknight. This reputation puts people at ease with them knowing i'm not:<ul><li>A.) A ninja looter that will grab all the loot I can. </li><li>B.) A loot "[Removed for Content]" wanting every single piece/item in the zone for himself</li><li>C.) A person that will let the group down for a "Shiny". </li></ul>It is very hard to build up your reputation and is very easy to destroy through one or two mistakes. Reputation is one thing that many players need and some lack which makes it easy to spot them. Hopefully this guide will help out those that are new to MMOs and want a general guide/handbook to player honor.

MadLordOfMilk

06-18-2007, 06:42 PM

Well, a situation where two people legitimately would be harvesting nodes is if you both come up to it at the same time. Say for example you and another person are running around that eastern section of temple grounds in TT where a lot of people go for ore, going in opposite directions (people run in circles when they do this btw). Then you both end up at the same node... often it'll be a "both of us start harvesting it" situation. However if the person is already there and harvesting a node, then let them have it.

Ama

06-18-2007, 06:52 PM

Kraaj@Everfrost wrote: <blockquote>Well, a situation where two people legitimately would be harvesting nodes is if you both come up to it at the same time. Say for example you and another person are running around that eastern section of temple grounds in TT where a lot of people go for ore, going in opposite directions (people run in circles when they do this btw). Then you both end up at the same node... often it'll be a "both of us start harvesting it" situation. However if the person is already there and harvesting a node, then let them have it. </blockquote> True, but the situation I have seen happen most often is where a player is already harvesting a node and someone "Node Steals" from them. Sadly the person harvesting the node will get screwed because the node stealer will have tools to shorten their reuse time. Had a similar situation happen to a guild mate I was with who I was helping get resources with. Player ran up harvesting all the nodes around my buddy *fine* then ran up to the node my guildmate was harvesting and harvested that as well. This happened once and I wasn't in a good mood so I "politely" told him if he did that again I was gonna file a harrassement petition against him.

Jardon

06-19-2007, 11:13 AM

And the GM will tell you it is not harresment, because nodes are open to anyone, and you don't own a node just because you start harvesting it.You may WANT it to work that way but Sony has set it up, and devs have stated, that there are 3 harvests on a node, and they are open for anyone to harvest.I don't understand why people complain and want to CREATE their own rules and conventions, when the games does not work just exactly how they want it to work. It is not YOUR game, if you don't like it, then use the feedback comand to suggest changes to the Devs, and let them decide if that is a good change to thier game. If they don't change it, and it still bothers you that much, then vote with your money and you feet, and find another game.And before you come up with the old line of "You don't know what you are talking about", I have two level 70 crafters and a level 67 crafter and I harvest for others in my guild. I don't like it when someone comes up and starts to harvest on the node I am on, and I am likely to ask the person to please not do that, but there is NO rule that says they can't harvest the node I am working on (notice I did NOT say MY node). I just move to the next node, and laugh to myself when I harvest a rare from the next node they missed out on, bacuse they were on the other node.

Laoch69

06-19-2007, 11:43 AM

<cite>Amana wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think it's time we all put forth our ideas of what is considered "Good Moral Conduct" within the player base. The Player, The Mob And The Kill StealerBe it a ring event or a general named mob whatever player reaches the entity first does have a quote "Right" to it. This is a generally accepted principal and considered "Common Curtesy" unless otherwise stated (Contested Epic Mobs can be considered a grey area). Now what this means is you can watch the player(s) take on said mob/ring event, but in no way shape or form interfer. You should not interfer because "Help" can be misunderstood as "Kill Stealing" if not done correctly. Only time you should even interfer is if the players ask for help. It may not net you any loot, but it will build up a "Reputation" for yourself as being an honest player within the community. If said player(s) dies, FDs, or Evacs during the course of the ring event/mob they forfit all rights to said mob. Feign Deathing is a grey area since you can do it by accident and still be alright, however even by accident you still forfit your right (Punish the monk not me i'm just siting the book). After that you and those around you have an equal opportunity to take on said mob. Reaching the mob first is the key and if your group does it first you have the right to it. However if the other group/player does then you should do the polite thing and "Back Down". Have been in many a furious rage because a group got a named mob first, but even while made I did the polite thing and "Backed Down".The Kill StealerSo we talked about the mob and the players along with the "Code of Conduct" book we all learn in MMOs. Now it's time to discuss a hated enemy "The Kill Stealer". These people have no reguard for the book and will take mobs just for the sake of "Loot" not considering the work others put into getting to that mob. Now it may not be "Acknowledge" kill stealing happens, but in truth it does. Kill Stealing has two forms in EQ2 that I have seen thus far. First is you seeing a name and preparing to face he/she/it waiting 2 seconds for that mana. If I see a player/players near a named encounter I will leave them alone. Even if they are plat sellers/farmers it is common curtesy not to disrupt them (if ya think they are plat sellers /report and /petition em that way they get removed for good). This is not the case with Kill Stealers in that they will take these mobs from said players. Equal Opportunity to a mob is a pretty BROAD range which sucks and is great that it is there. A Kill Stealer(s) will run in and take said mob from the group of players or player. At the moment if it is just one single mob there is nothing you can do about it. Sadly if the Kill Stealer just nabs 1 mob from you then leaves they may have needed it for a quest. Again it sucks but there is generally nothing that can be done about this. However if the Kill Stealer does this repeatedly after you spawn the named again even if it's with a new player there is something you can do about it. Your best bet is to "Warn" the player saying "I am filling a petition of Harrasement against you" and bluff em. Even if they "Complain" (aka B*** about it) saying "Mob is Free Game" it really isn't since your the one spawning the mob you do have some right to it due to the player's "Code of Conduct" honor code. Now if they come back a 3rd time you will file the petition for real this time with it not being a bluff. You wrote it off the 1st time, warned them/bluffed em the 2nd time and 3rd time "they are out" so to speak. Generally CSRs/GMs will deal with Harrasement very strictly even if it comes to mobs. Ring EventsThese are generally the same as single named mobs in that the player/group that starts it has an Ownership to it. Now dealing with trash mobs if someone runs by and pulls some mobs it will be by accident. However if they do it repeatedly then just say "Please Don't Interfer with the ring event" and leave it at that. If the players take the name you worked hard to get say "You do that to us again i'm petitioning you for Harrassement" and just walk away. Again if they start in on your ring event you started then file the petition as needed. State what happened, the player(s) names, and that you warned them saying "Please don't interfer with my/our ring" and "If you do it again i'm filling a Harrassement Petition Against You". Following these protocols CSRs/GMs will be in a better position to understand your plee. It can be said "You don't own a ring", but technically there is one event where "Yes" you do own it. In Sanctum Of The Scaleborn there is a ring event that you need a stone to initiate it. That item for that ring event isn't easy to come by and kill stealing of that calibre is the highest transgression imho. If you "accidentally" take a trash mob kill it and say "Sorry" then move on. However if they take the named there is no warning it is a straight charge or Harrassement. The reason for straight Harrassement is there is no creature in that area that does high grade knockbacks. I have tanked that area and healed in that area multiple times as the rest of my friends/brethrn have. There is plenty of room for no social aggro from the named and little chance to "accidentally" aggro it with AoEs. Node Harvesting This can be an especially grey area and needs to be taken into consideration by players and only players. To give a short gist of it the common rule is to leave 2 nodes that are near the player intact along with the one they are harvesting. Even if they are plat farmers/sellers it is common curtesy to do this so you build up your reputation. The line between those people is blurred so it is never easy to tell them apart 100% of the time. One thing you NEVER do and I MEAN NEVER do is go harvest the same node another player is doing. If a player does this warn them twice then send in a petition against them for harrassement. Sadly dealing with nodes there is very little that can be done. However if it comes down to the player "Training" you then it becomes very harrassing. EndI will add to this section once I have time to sit down and write more for the Player Code Of Honor the unspoken general rule of MMOers. Small Note: Some may ask why I mentioned "reputation" alot and that's due to the fact rep. can make or break you in any MMO. Due to my strict honor I have made a great reputation for myself on the Kithicor server as Amana the Warden healer and Saxx The Shadowknight. This reputation puts people at ease with them knowing i'm not:<ul><li>A.) A ninja looter that will grab all the loot I can. </li><li>B.) A loot "[Removed for Content]" wanting every single piece/item in the zone for himself</li><li>C.) A person that will let the group down for a "Shiny". </li></ul>It is very hard to build up your reputation and is very easy to destroy through one or two mistakes. Reputation is one thing that many players need and some lack which makes it easy to spot them. Hopefully this guide will help out those that are new to MMOs and want a general guide/handbook to player honor. </blockquote>Some constructive (I hope) notes about your "guide"1: To prevent kill stealing, all you have to do is lock your encounter. This also makes kill stealing technically impossible. You cannot have a monster stolen from you, if it wasn't yours to begin with. The monster is "owned" by the person that attacks that monster first, period.2: Petitioning someone for harrassement (a big no no) for someone who is "kill stealing" (when there are options in your controls to prevent such a thing) may get your account warned, and not the "stealer". Throwing around a word like harrassement, is a very big deal.3: Petitioning someone for harvesting the same node that you are harvesting, may also get your account warned. SOE has stated many, many, many times that nodes are not "owned" by anyone, and that the are a free for all for everyone.I am not saying any of your ideas or bad, or wrong, just the facts, as they exist in EQ2 today.--- p.s. curtesy is courtesy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />curtesy: A widower's portion of his wife's assets that were acquired during the course of their marriage. Curtesy usually amounts to one third of the assets.

Ama

06-19-2007, 11:59 AM

<cite>Laoch69 wrote:</cite><blockquote> <blockquote>Some constructive (I hope) notes about your "guide"</blockquote>1: To prevent kill stealing, all you have to do is lock your encounter. This also makes kill stealing technically impossible. You cannot have a monster stolen from you, if it wasn't yours to begin with. The monster is "owned" by the person that attacks that monster first, period.Sadly you can't fight 1 mob then lock the named when it spawns thus you have "Kill Stealers". 2: Petitioning someone for harrassement (a big no no) for someone who is "kill stealing" (when there are options in your controls to prevent such a thing) may get your account warned, and not the "stealer". Throwing around a word like harrassement, is a very big deal.I didn't say the first go around you should /petition for Harrassement. I'm saying after the 3rd time you do it since you will have confirmed proof of it. When dealing with a situation like this you have to throw around the big word "Harrassement". 3: Petitioning someone for harvesting the same node that you are harvesting, may also get your account warned. SOE has stated many, many, many times that nodes are not "owned" by anyone, and that the are a free for all for everyone.I believe I stated up top that there is little that can be done about it. You can classify it as Harrassement if it gets to the point the other player is "Training" mobs on you. I am not saying any of your ideas or bad, or wrong, just the facts, as they exist in EQ2 today.</blockquote>I'll go back and edit the notes so it is a bit more clearer. It seems like I throw the word "Harrassement" around to easily but it is a serious offense. For me personally I have made maybe 4 claims of Harrassement against people. The case that sticks out in my mind is a player that purposefully trained a group I was in. A Player trained us which at first we thought was on accident, but said if they do it again they are getting reported. They did it again and I reported them with that being the end of that. As for nodes and Harrassement "Sadly dealing with nodes there is very little that can be done. However if it comes down to the player "Training" you then it becomes very harrassing. "

Miele

06-19-2007, 12:06 PM

Just two points: 1.: "First is you seeing a name and preparing to face he/she/it waiting 2 seconds for that mana. If I see a player/players near a named encounter I will leave them alone. Even if they are plat sellers/farmers it is common curtesy not to disrupt them (if ya think they are plat sellers /report and /petition em that way they get removed for good). This is not the case with Kill Stealers in that they will take these mobs from said players. Agree on leaving legitimate players alone, but I always talk to bots and plat farmers when I spot them, they never reply, after that they try to disrupt my gameplay by training me (lol), I disrupt their ones (I train very well, heck I'm a master trainer) and I always win, after this happens, I report/petition them if needed for "automated gameplay" if this applies, most of the times they'll just move away and learn one more name to avoid on the server (oh, 3 weeks without a single spam tell too, they hate me over there by now). Don't let them have even a minor satisfaction, ever. I wish I could be a GM and insta ban all of them once a day, it'd make me giggle inside a little bit, just like when they leave the zone I'm in. 2.: You don't absolutely want to petiton anyone for harvesting from the same node as you are, you may remotely consider doing this if the other player does nothing but follow you around and do that for like 20 minutes, otherwise move on. You know, it can happen once or twice, also you have no rights on any node spawning, you can only be corteous and move away, but it's not written anywhere that you should, thus you have no rights at all, zero, nada, nichts, nothing. I met a person once who tried twice to hrvest nodes near me: I needed to kill a mob or two, but they were grey to him, we discussed in an absolutely unpolite manner, then we moved a little bit away from each other, end of troubles. Play Nice Policy was always a rule that could be bent and twisted to one's advantage, from the early day of EQ1 (some examples would make you "lol" for 3 hours) and any resolution of an issue was dependant on which GM you found and his mood of the moment. There is only one rule you have to follow and that is "try to talk to other people first", find agreements, whatever. 99,9% of the times it solves any potential trouble you may have, the other 0.1% of the times you are either: 1)playing wow, 2)facing an army of bots, 3)meeting one of the few dumb-idiots of your server. There is no etiquette, there is only common sense and communication skills, if you lack them... too bad.

TheMightyTaco

06-19-2007, 12:21 PM

Yeah, the node harvesting thing is tricky. I don't ever approach a node that someone is already tapping. Heck, I even steer clear of any node that a person looks like they will hit next. But people knock on node I'm harvesting all the time. It's annoying but I don't get worked up about it anymore. Why?Because that is the way it was designed.<ul><li>You can actually get a "Nothing Found" message. Why would they have that if nodes weren't contestible?</li><li>There are harvesting tools that reduce harvesting time which are level restricted. Why would they do that if nodes weren't contestible?</li></ul>A code of conduct is a noble thought but I wouldn't recommend you put too much time into it. By SoE's off-hand comments, 1% of the player base will visit the boards where you posted it. Only a fraction of those will ever see it. And a sizeable portion of those people will flat-out disagree. But good luck with it if you continue.

Ama

06-19-2007, 12:26 PM

<cite>Miele wrote:</cite><blockquote> 2.: You don't absolutely want to petiton anyone for harvesting from the same node as you are, you may remotely consider doing this if the other player does nothing but follow you around and do that for like 20 minutes, otherwise move on. </blockquote> That's the thing is you have to consider that "Harrassing" behavior where a person purposefully disrupts your game play experience following you around. Talking to the player is indeed the best option but when that fails you have to resort to the big guns. As for the plat sellers/farmers/botters and being disruptive you have to be cautious. Have heard many a tale about legitimate players being hurt by CSRs/GMs because plat sellers petitioned them. However I will agree that if they are suspected plat sellers you should petition them off the bat. Already had several encounters with players in Shimmering Citadel that I believed were plat sellers. Even had one train me and my friend with a spectre. A necromancer charmed his pet then FDed releasing the pet unto us. Me and my friend managed to kill it and I was totally POed warning the guy "You do that again i'm petitioning you". Never saw him come close to me ever again. It's just as easy for a plat seller to your report you as you report them. Always gotta remember that when you decided to take a mob away from a group of suspected botters.