Kill-Stealing in EQ2

[Neptuna]

<p>Hello,</p><p>yesterday, again, 2 peoples from the same guild where watching me, while i'm killed the event in Tenebrous Tangle, to make the named "The Skywatcher" (or is he called The Starwatcher on english servers) aggro. Then, they pulled the named away right in front of me and killed him.</p><p>That was not the first time. It happened to me on other ring events, or with Questnameds (like claymore nameds).</p><p> I reportet this, but the GM says, that "stealing a named is totally legal!" Lol. look at this and try to get this sentence in your head! I mean, how can that be. It's like stealing an item, when you camping a named or making an event, and someone comes along an kill the named in front of you.</p><p> I think that SOE should look at this option. In my eyes, that's nothing to be "totally legal". In other games, you can get permanently banned from the server, by doing such things.</p><p>What do you think about this? I want to hear your opinions to this thing.</p>

[Yngwiem]

<p>While it is "perfectly legal", it's against the players "play nice policy". </p><p>I would try to locate the guild leader and have a discussion with them. I am sure that a decent guild would not want their name tarnished. But at the same time, a lot of guild only consist of 1 person (in this case, he/she could have been 2 boxing). </p>

[Wingrider01]

Neptuna@Valor wrote: <blockquote><p>Hello,</p><p>yesterday, again, 2 peoples from the same guild where watching me, while i'm killed the event in Tenebrous Tangle, to make the named "The Skywatcher" (or is he called The Starwatcher on english servers) aggro. Then, they pulled the named away right in front of me and killed him.</p><p>That was not the first time. It happened to me on other ring events, or with Questnameds (like claymore nameds).</p><p> I reportet this, but the GM says, that "stealing a named is totally legal!" Lol. look at this and try to get this sentence in your head! I mean, how can that be. It's like stealing an item, when you camping a named or making an event, and someone comes along an kill the named in front of you.</p><p> I think that SOE should look at this option. In my eyes, that's nothing to be "totally legal". In other games, you can get permanently banned from the server, by doing such things.</p><p>What do you think about this? I want to hear your opinions to this thing.</p></blockquote>Unless you are actively engaged with the target, the target is not yours and it is not kill stealing. In poor taste, yes, kill stealing no.

[Ama]

<cite>Wingrider01 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Neptuna@Valor wrote: <blockquote><p>Hello,</p><p>yesterday, again, 2 peoples from the same guild where watching me, while i'm killed the event in Tenebrous Tangle, to make the named "The Skywatcher" (or is he called The Starwatcher on english servers) aggro. Then, they pulled the named away right in front of me and killed him.</p><p>That was not the first time. It happened to me on other ring events, or with Questnameds (like claymore nameds).</p><p> I reportet this, but the GM says, that "stealing a named is totally legal!" Lol. look at this and try to get this sentence in your head! I mean, how can that be. It's like stealing an item, when you camping a named or making an event, and someone comes along an kill the named in front of you.</p><p> I think that SOE should look at this option. In my eyes, that's nothing to be "totally legal". In other games, you can get permanently banned from the server, by doing such things.</p><p>What do you think about this? I want to hear your opinions to this thing.</p></blockquote>Unless you are actively engaged with the target, the target is not yours and it is not kill stealing. In poor taste, yes, kill stealing no. </blockquote><p>I have to disagree in that said player(s) who activate(s) the ring does have a sort of "Right" to said mob.  When that player dies, "FDs" or Evacs said right is nullified and the mob is free game.  However as the OP describes it these players are deffinately in violation of "Player Base" code of conduct and possibly SOE's conduct.   </p><p>"Yesterday, again, 2 peoples from the same guild where watching me, while i'm killed the event in Tenebrous Tangle, to make the named "The Skywatcher" (or is he called The Starwatcher on english servers) aggro. Then, they pulled the named away right in front of me and killed him."</p><p>If it is the same group of people I would classify it as harrasement and especially if it's from the same guild.  Ask to have a chat with the guild leader about their member's conduct.  Usually with upstanding guilds they'll warn their members because they want a good rep.  Sadly this isn't the case with other guilds and you could have the rare possibility of dealing with a farming guild.  </p><p>Either way bud your options are limited in this kind of scenario since SoE doesn't acknowledge ownership of creatures/mobs be it ring or quest based.  Your best bet is to track those players that are "Kill Stealing" and keep tabs on them seeing if they do it to others.  If it is true they do it to others and do it to you again you can file it under Harrassement to get SOE's attention.</p><p>Player misconduct/rude behavior is one thing, but being harrassive towards others is a completely different matter. </p>

[Jrral]

Neptuna@Valor wrote: <blockquote><p>yesterday, again, 2 peoples from the same guild where watching me, while i'm killed the event in Tenebrous Tangle, to make the named "The Skywatcher" (or is he called The Starwatcher on english servers) aggro. Then, they pulled the named away right in front of me and killed him. </p></blockquote>Petition them. What they did is a violation of the rules. In general mobs aren't owned by any particular player, but in the case of placeholder mobs, ring events or other situations where it's neccesary to kill certain mobs to get a named to spawn, it's considered disruptive for another player who hasn't killed the preliminary mobs to grab the named away from the one who did the work. Especially if they were waiting and watching you kill the preliminaries and knew full well you were the one getting the named to spawn. Note: don't mention "kill stealing" in your petition. Say that you were killing the neccesary ring event, and when you had completed it and the named spawned the other players (who hadn't been involved in the ring event) engaged it before you had any opportunity to do so yourself. Make sure to have a /report starting just before the ring event ended and covering them engaging the mob before you could.

[erin]

Neptuna@Valor wrote: <blockquote><p>Hello,</p><p>yesterday, again, 2 peoples from the same guild where watching me, while i'm killed the event in Tenebrous Tangle, to make the named "The Skywatcher" (or is he called The Starwatcher on english servers) aggro. Then, they pulled the named away right in front of me and killed him.</p></blockquote>Did it occur to you to talk to them, see what they wanted?  "Hey how's it going, what's up"?  Maybe they needed that one mob for a quest, and if you had talked to them they might have joined up with you?  Admittedly, players willing to take a mob that you triggered aren't people you really want to group with, but you could have at least drawn their attention to the fact that you were triggering the mob.  Sometimes it helps prevent this sort of thing.  Technically what they did isn't kill stealing.  But its very important to get them talking.  Then, talk to their guild leader.  Any respectable guild will kick them out (maybe not on your report, but if they get reported by people multiple times, they would get kicked).  Maybe they are even such noobs that they don't know what they are doing is wrong.  Who knows?  Quite often a simple conversation will prevent the problem, I've found.

[Baccalarium]

Occasionally people just looking at a location that says where the mob is, and don't realize there is a ring associated with it.    But if they waited for any length of time I'd think it would have been obvious.    Again if this is the case talking about it,  or at least /saying  We are running the ring to spawn the named.   can make intentions clear.

[DarrkElf]

<p>I like the idea of a ring event being locked until either the named is killed, or the player has either died, FD'd or Evacced.</p><p>There's been a few times when I've cleared wave after wave after wave for a ring event, spending a chunky amount of time on it, only to see some a$$hat race in and grab the named.</p><p>Whenever I can see someone else clearing, if I need the mob I send them a tell to see if I can get in on the group, otherwise I leave them to it and come back later.</p>

[Rufio]

<p>I think kill stealing can suck but sometimes it can be a necessary evil. Think where two groups are huntign for the same mob, both camping and killing ph in the same spot, maybe for hours on end, not willing to party up because of noobishness. Then in that case if you happen to pawn the monster first then cudos to you.</p><p>Greed is the problem, people need to learn to share mobs or play together nicely, don`t come here crying and spouting all of this EULA violation because it isn`t, although you wish mommy could come and hold your hand she can`t right now, she is busy with the milkman.</p><p>The GM will all point out to you that a mob no matter was intention you have or how many days or weeks you have been camping it, is still Free for all. Meaning if I run through stormhold with my lvl 22 group and I have to fight every skeleton and ghoul trash mob to get to one of the 5 lords then that is what I have to do isn`t it. When joe "T3h P@Wn3R" bloe comes through lvl 28 master crafted farming like a garden gnome on crack, then that is fari game however bad it must suck to the lower lvl group.</p><p>Just like the real world, the wolf eats the sheep, sheep eat grass. You never seen a sheep eat a wolf have you? You have three options in this case, you can A: Come here and whine like a baby flailing your arms and crying woe is me or B: you can quit, give up, the game just wasn`t meant for you, play tetris or better yet get your thrills from pong, or C: You can farm some nodes, get teh rares, make your armour, make your jewellery, farm the named to get your set of master I`s, quest like that gnome on crack and find all the named to max your AA for that respective level and then.......[Removed for Content] go and farm the named you want or get owned and go home.</p>

[gradyma]

<p>The Petition system works. In you're case, you started the Ring event only to have the named mob taken away by another player/players. While this may be very rude, childish, ect..... It's actually not against the rules. All mobs are fair game.</p><p>Now had the player sent you a tell saying something like, "Haha (Insert Rude Stuff Here)." Then it would be a different story. </p>

[Giral]

<p> If the same 2 people are sitting there 2 days in a row from the same guild watching you kill the trash  and then swoop in for the Named i would consider that Mob stealing becuase they obviously can kill the Named, so why dont they Just clear the ring and the Named ?    simple answer =  they are getting pleasure out of purposfully taking the Named after waiting for you to kill the trash mobs.    </p><p>2 soloer's or 2 groups that happen to both be clearing thru an area at the same time, is more like a race to see who gets the prize.  but they are both doing the clearing of the trash mobs to try to be first to the named </p>

[Armawk]

<p>Its a design problem with the game.. ring events are incompatible with non locked names. Petition the developer for makinga mess <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Other placeholder stuff is just tough, but ring events are structured in the game but weakly set up.</p>

[Jal]

Its a contested mob on a 2 hour spawn cycle, unless you were present killing the PH starwatcher Droag for countless hours beforehand i dont see any claim on the mob as valid.  Contested means just that, if you die then youve had your shot and someone else can have a go. I've done that ring many a time for my own and guildies skywatcher robes and such and if i died then its fair game to anyone else.

[Owilliams]

<p>When I run into a situation like this I merely send out an alert to guildies.  Then we bring enough level 70 toons to the area to ensure that the sought after mob isn't snagged by ill meaning players.  We have each other's backs.</p><p>Happy Gaming,</p><p>--Orv</p>

[thebunny]

<p>I prefer to use the term "camp-stealing", as kill-stealing in the traditional sense can't really happen in EQ2.  As others have said, this is not against the EULA.  Just because you were camping the named/clearing the ring/etc., that doesn't mean that you have any legal claim to that mob as far as SOE is concerned.  Personally, I would like to see them put in a way to lock a ring event to the group that starts it until either the ring is completed or the entire group wipes.  But there are complications with this (what do you do when someone FDs to avoid a group wipe for instance).</p><p>However, as others have said, camp-stealing is definitely considered to be in bad taste.  I would definitely recommend contacting some of the officers in their guild and telling them simply what happened.  Some guilds will ignore it or even congratulate the camp-stealers - nothing you can do about that really.  The majority of guilds, however, will take it seriously, as they don't want their name tarnished by one or two bad apples.  There are two things that will 100% get you kicked out of our guild - repeatedly stealing someone else's camps, and repeatedly stealing loot from a NBG group/raid.</p><p>You can also get your guildies to come out and help with the ring so that you can pull the named as soon as he's agro instead of waiting for power/health.  I know we've had to pull the avatar in Kaladim several times before we were ready, but we still killed him every time.  You just have to be ready for it.</p><p>BTW, what games out there will perma-ban you for "kill-stealing"?</p>

[Neptuna]

I said the Starwatcher was only an example. It happens with other rare nameds / events on other places, etc... I only want to say, that this might be making a bad light to the game and I'm sad about that there is no penalty for this.

[Gladiia]

<cite>thebunny wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I prefer to use the term "camp-stealing", as kill-stealing in the traditional sense can't really happen in EQ2.  As others have said, this is not against the EULA.  Just because you were camping the named/clearing the ring/etc., that doesn't mean that you have any legal claim to that mob as far as SOE is concerned.  Personally, I would like to see them put in a way to lock a ring event to the group that starts it until either the ring is completed or the entire group wipes.  But there are complications with this (what do you do when someone FDs to avoid a group wipe for instance).</p><p>However, as others have said, camp-stealing is definitely considered to be in bad taste.  I would definitely recommend contacting some of the officers in their guild and telling them simply what happened.  Some guilds will ignore it or even congratulate the camp-stealers - nothing you can do about that really.  The majority of guilds, however, will take it seriously, as they don't want their name tarnished by one or two bad apples.  There are two things that will 100% get you kicked out of our guild - repeatedly stealing someone else's camps, and repeatedly stealing loot from a NBG group/raid.</p><p>You can also get your guildies to come out and help with the ring so that you can pull the named as soon as he's agro instead of waiting for power/health.  I know we've had to pull the avatar in Kaladim several times before we were ready, but we still killed him every time.  You just have to be ready for it.</p><p>*****BTW, what games out there will perma-ban you for "kill-stealing"?*****</p></blockquote>I know in Anarchy Online, you can be banned for kill stealing IF (and only if) the mob(s) in question were player spawned.  In all cases there though, spawning a mob required more than just time, they also required some resource, so a player would have likely spent some amount of online currency getting the mob spawned.

[Gherig]

Erin@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><p>Neptuna@Valor wrote: </p><p>Did it occur to you to talk to them, see what they wanted?  " </p></blockquote><p> 99 out of 100 times doing that gets you the response "noob, go back to wow" or "what are you going to do about it?  whine a little more noob" or the classic " HAHAHAHAHAHAHA thx kkla!~~"</p><p>There is little to no respect online, this encounter for instance needs to be revamped so the "Boss" someone works hard to trigger is locked out for x period of time by the group that had the majority of the kills in the ring event, all contested ring events need to be like this in the game, locked to the party that engages the TRIGGERS on the ring first.</p>

[sayitaintso]

Neptuna@Valor wrote: <blockquote><p>Hello,</p><p>yesterday, again, 2 peoples from the same guild where watching me, while i'm killed the event in Tenebrous Tangle, to make the named "The Skywatcher" (or is he called The Starwatcher on english servers) aggro. Then, they pulled the named away right in front of me and killed him.</p><p>That was not the first time. It happened to me on other ring events, or with Questnameds (like claymore nameds).</p><p> I reportet this, but the GM says, that "stealing a named is totally legal!" Lol. look at this and try to get this sentence in your head! I mean, how can that be. It's like stealing an item, when you camping a named or making an event, and someone comes along an kill the named in front of you.</p><p> I think that SOE should look at this option. In my eyes, that's nothing to be "totally legal". In other games, you can get permanently banned from the server, by doing such things.</p><p>What do you think about this? I want to hear your opinions to this thing.</p></blockquote>Hate to break it to you, but what you describe here isn't kill stealing. I don't think kill stealing is even possible in EQ2. (I guess if you don't lock encounters and a charmer charms the thing they can steal it from you) In EQ1 if you did more than 50% of the damage the kill was yours (or in the case where more than 2 people were trying for the kill it was whomever got the most damage) So players with high damage output in a very short time could take a kill from another player...it's against the rules but unless witnessed by in game CSR which no longer exists you can forget about having anything done about it. Sure these guys broke the "play nice" rules....but proving it is one thing and having a GM take your side (IF you can get one to answer you) is something totally different. The griefers in this game know that little or nothing will ever be done to them, and what surprises me is that there aren't more of them. Anyone can follow you around, wait until you pop a named and then kill it right under your nose....and nothing will be done about it...

[sayitaintso]

<cite>Owilliams wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>When I run into a situation like this I merely send out an alert to guildies.  Then we bring enough level 70 toons to the area to ensure that the sought after mob isn't snagged by ill meaning players.  We have each other's backs.</p><p>Happy Gaming,</p><p>--Orv</p></blockquote> I assume you are on a PVP server because what you just described is also against the rules...the rules clearly state that no one owns a MOB in EQ2 and anything is fair game...by trying to intimidate others into not attacking the creature you are actually more in violation than they are....not to mention that if you are not on PVP how would you keep someone from taking the named and what would you do to after it was dead?

[Femke]

I agree. Real kill stealing doesn't exist in EQ (not as it does in UO or Lineage). But also this happens... My daughter was clearing the room of vampires in the Darklight Wood to get at the named there. While she was working on it, some (remarkable higher leveled) character runs in and starts to kill all the vampires. She doesn't complain and just fights her way to the named.... and pulls it. She gots addressed for cheating. I told her not to feel bad about it... this person was whining as a Ratonga. Hmm, wait a sec... It <b>was </b>a Ratonga... (just kidding here, I have a Ratonga myself) Femke.

[steelblueangel]

<p>If you spawn the mob it should and someone takes it from you then it should be considered kill stealing and against eq policy. For example there are many hq's that require killing place holders for hours on end to spawn the name for quest credit. Having someone kill your name after you or your group spent hours to spawn should be an offense. </p><p>Light bringer, priest of valmar he takes HOURs to spawn. I have had toons waiting inivis and take him or run by and kill him.</p><p>stein of moggok / bouncers</p><p>strange black rock/ tombs of life</p><p>Foombys stolen goods/ chomper</p><p>haddens earring/ hrath v'tol</p><p>I can't remember the name of the one in CT but there are 4 or more mobs that have to be spawned there which take all day killing place holders over and over only to have someone or another group kill your name.</p><p>So I agree something needs to be changed especially concerning quest mobs to prevent this from happening as often as it does. </p>

[Miele]

Next time, train them, problem solved. Oh... then apologize of course.

[MrWolfie]

<cite>Miele wrote:</cite><blockquote>Next time, train them, problem solved. Oh... then apologize of course. </blockquote><p> How very adult of you.</p><p>My partner and I (Necro and Warlock) were in SoS and were engaged, on the top of the plaform, killing Orate Sivark, when another group entered the Oratorium. Being complete ****heads they decided they wanted this named for themselves. One of them gathered as many of the groups of mobs around the small pyramid and body pulled them up where, because we were fighting a social mob, they added to our fight. Hoping that we would die before managing to kill the Orate, have to revive and lose the mob we'd legitimately engaged.</p><p>Of course, to do this now is a bit harder since they made some changes to aggro, but I don't think it's too difficult to achieve.</p><p>Anyone practising this behaviour is no better than the "kill stealers" the OP is complaining about. Taking matters into your own hands (on a PVE server) is breaking the EULA. Expect to be reported.</p><p>Oh, and BTW, we took out the adds and while I died (there's a surprise, a dead Warlock) the necro rezzed and we looted our chest, and got our update for A Boisterous Alliance! So be careful, the people you're training might be able to cope AND you'll get a bad rep (if you don't already have one, that is).</p>