NEW Macbook Pro (06/2007 version) and XP -- a glimmer of hope.

[LarryTalbot]

I got one of the new Intel based Macbook Pro's when they were released last week and have been itching to load up Windows and see how well EQ2 would run. I ordered a copy of Win XP Pro online the day  I got the machine, only then did I think to check out this Forum to see if it works. I read that folks were having issues with running EQ2 on the previous Core 2 Duo (C2D) version of the Macbook Pro under XP and that most people need to run Vista for the game to be stable. This is not the thing you want to hear when you just spent over $100 on a new copy of XP!! Anyway, when my copy of XP arrived  they had sent me the Home edition rather than the Pro version that I'd ordered. I arranged to return it but I got to thinking that if I needed Vista to run EQ2 I would ask them to change the order and buy Vista instead. However, I really didn't want to have to buy Vista just to play a game so I hunted on the net and found an ISO image of a DELL OEM version of Windows XP SR2. I loaded this copy under the latest Bootcamp and then copied my EQ2 folders from my desktop. Since this was a dodgy copy of windows and I planned to replace it anyway, I didnt have Microsoft patch it. So the version is whatever DELL supplies with it's OEM machines with no updates other than the Apple supplied drivers. I started the game and found it fast and pretty stable. The game crashed once in the first 20 minutes while I was adjusting settings  -- probably because the settings it was using came from my desktop. However after that it ran smoothly for the next 4 hours including two KOS instance groupings. It was stable enough and smooth enough that I'll let my original XP Pro order stand rather than switch to Vista. I realise this is not conclusive, because I have no idea the build level of the Windows I was running, but given that the previous C2D machines crashed so easily under XP this may be an indication that things are now ok on the new hardware. If you buy a new Macbook Pro and you already have a copy of XP lying around you may want to try it with EQ2 before you commit to buying Vista. For completeness I have the Macbook Pro with 128MB of video memory. Once my legit copy of XP arrives next week I will reload the game and see how it works. I'll keep you posted.

[SilverBlack]

OMG, you just pretty much answered the question that I was about to post. I am planning to buy the new MBP with 8600GT 128MB, and I was thinking if I should go for Vista or XP.   Please do let us know if it is stable with XP!   What setting are you using?  Balance?  Or, it can go higher?  Any in-game shutter/video lag whatsoever?  Is it hot?  Fan noise ok? Man, you are awesome!

[LarryTalbot]

<p>Let me start by saying I'm a Machead, so I bought the machine to replace my Powerbook and not principly to play games. I have no idea how so called "gaming laptops" compare with desktop system, or how the Macbook Pro compares with them. For me being able to play EQ2 was a bonus of the deal not a deal breaker.</p><p>It runs well in balanced mode. I ran it that way for about 15 minutes while I was looking at all the options. After that I adjusted things manually and my profile changed to "custom" so I haven't played the game for long in any of the preset modes. However because you asked I went back and tested again using the presets. I don't know what effect switching to say "Balanced" or "High Quality" has on any of the options I'd picked earlier.</p><p>In Balanced it worked very well and there was no major hesitation or problems with animation. Out in the countryside it looked great and performance was good in places like QH too. I ran around GFae in "High Quality" mode and found it playable  with perhaps a hint of hesitation. In "Very High Quality" mode it was still smooth enough for game play, though obviously how that works with lots of mobs on screen I can't say. In areas with complex textures in the close range -- like city zones VHQ showed obvious signs of stuttering and frame loss, HQ mode was playable and Balanced was best.</p><p>One thing I noticed was that the Macbook Pro's LCD seems somewhat course in it's aliasing. On my desktop LCD I can run the game in a window at less than it's full screen resolution and it still looks ok. On the Macbook I had to run it full screen and match the resolution of the screen to get smooth lines. I know that working at a resolution different from native is a problem with all LCDs but with the Apple screen it is especially noticable.</p><p>The fan comes on in the first 2 minutes of play. On my machine it is not that loud but then I have 4 fans in my desktop if you include the HD and GPU cooler so maybe I just dont notice. In my experience all Aluminium Powerbooks/Macbooks run hot I have a lap desk for mine so I cant say how hot.</p><p>Once I have a real copy of XP loaded I'll test it in Unrest.</p><p>  </p>

[SilverBlack]

<p>Thank you very much, I am sure many will appreciate your effort!  </p>

[Chaostik]

I bought the new Macbook Pro on Sunday (2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, nVidia 8600M GT /w 256MB GDDR3, 2GB RAM) and have got round to putting Windows on in Bootcamp.  Having read the forums many weeks ago while I was waiting for the new MBP release, I had Vista ready to install. What's really really strange is that I get the problems that people on the previous generation of Macbook Pro describe getting in XP, but I'm running Vista (which seemed to fix this on the last gen MBP).  Then I read this thread which says that XP seems to be fine .... does that mean that the roles are reversed on this new MBP?  XP works and Vista doesn't? At the moment, I get about 30 minutes of play then everything freezes.  Shortly after that the music stutters and then sometimes it just restarts of its own accord while others I need to hard power off.  Is it possible that the new card which is nVidia rather than the previous gen's ATI has better XP drivers? Can the previous posters on this thread please confirm that they can run the game for hours on end without a problem under XP?  Anyone else on the latest gen MBP tried Vista? Oh and as an aside, I can have already done a few 3 hour sessions in Battlefield 2 with settings on high and it was flawless. Many thanks, Takis PS The performance is really good .. 60+ fps according to FRAPS in balanced.

[LarryTalbot]

<p>Well, my legit version of XP Pro arrived Wednesday and I installed it and the game Thurday. So far I have about 3 hours on the setup, longest single run time being 2 hours. However, most of  that was time spent gathering and crafting until I'm confident it's stable. So far the experience is very similar to the test run I did I get good frame rates with no obvious artifacts again it looks better in full screen mode than in a window.</p><p>My install proceedure was as follows.</p><p>1) Use bootcamp to install a clean windows XP system.</p><p>2) Configure Networking</p><p>3) Install the whole game from the EoF 2 DVD pack</p><p>4) Start the game as far as the login screen</p><p>5) Share my desktop Sony folder on my network</p><p>6) trash the directories in  Sony on the laptop and copy the ones from the desktop. This ensures I dont spend hours patching the latest version.</p><p>After that I start the game for the first time and adjust settings. I set the system to ballanced then reduce some of the textures. I do this because I only have 128MB of video memory. At this point the game is still choppy and unstable. I log out, reboot and when I log back into the game things appear stable.</p><p>I will be able to do a combat test this weekend with my Guild. I'll update people on my findings.</p>

[LarryTalbot]

<cite>Chaostik wrote:</cite><blockquote>At the moment, I get about 30 minutes of play then everything freezes.  Shortly after that the music stutters and then sometimes it just restarts of its own accord while others I need to hard power off.  Is it possible that the new card which is nVidia rather than the previous gen's ATI has better XP drivers? Can the previous posters on this thread please confirm that they can run the game for hours on end without a problem under XP?  Anyone else on the latest gen MBP tried Vista? Oh and as an aside, I can have already done a few 3 hour sessions in Battlefield 2 with settings on high and it was flawless. Many thanks, Takis PS The performance is really good .. 60+ fps according to FRAPS in balanced. </blockquote><p>I'm curious as to what you are doing during the 30 minutes you are playing. Is this combat? Just general gameplay? Does it freeze if you just left the game running?</p><p>I ran my last installation of XP for several hours at a time including periods of combat. So far the current install was run for about 2 hours mainly doing crafting and gathering.</p><p>Did you do a fresh install of the game or copy it from your desktop PC. </p>

[Chaostik]

Thanks for the responses. Ok, well I fiddled about and got a full 3 hour odd mixed soloing and grouping once I set both "Windows XP Service Pack 2 compatibility mode" and "Run as administrator".  Really beats me how this could fix it ... I would have imagined it'd either not run at all or run fine if those made a difference, rather than run but later crash. I had done the same as you - a DVD install then a copy from desktop PC.  The crashes happened in SS while I was just going around soloing some quests to get a feel for the new machine.  Well, I've some raids to attend on it so that'll be the real test, but if I don't post again then people can assume that for the new Macbook Pros with Vista you need XP SP2 compatibility mode and run as admin.  Kinda funny really as that's the opposite of what it seems the last gen of Macbook Pros needed. Thanks for this thread ... I may not have thought to try compatibility mode without it! I did want to ask though: you say "So far the experience is very similar to the test run I did I get good frame rates with no obvious artifacts again it looks better in full screen mode than in a window."  I find the same ... but in fact while I have it at 1440x900 (was fun fixing that after a copy from the desktop) when full screen, when I go windowed it goes to 1024x768 which sends all my hotbars completely screwy.  Have you found a way to make it 1440x880ish so that it doesn't mess everything up when switching in and out of windowed mode?  I need to do that a lot on raids. Last but not least ... the only thing I've noticed is that it feels like there is a slight "stutter" for want of a better expression when running at 40% on my Troub.  Have you noticed this?

[LarryTalbot]

Pulled an all nighter. Did 3 instances HoF ---> CoV ------> Oob for a total of around 6-7 hours of gameplay. The machine did not freeze or give any problems and seemed to work well. My main observation was that it gets HOT after the first 3 hours ---I have a lap desk and it was still getting uncomfortable. Definately wont want to rest it on an unprotected lap. To answer your questions. I don't have any problem with icons when I rescale from full screen to window. I'm using the stock UI do you have any enhancements? Arwyne has a 35% base run speed. I do see some of the guddering you mentioned in places where there is a lot of textures in rendering distance, the most obvious place being the tunnel in Willow Wood. It isnt however enough to effect gameplay.

[LarryTalbot]

Well from what I'm now reading in the forums it seems like Vista has problems and there are additional issues about running the game on multicore CPU's. Maybe one of those threads will give you some more information? Like I said if the machine plays the game that's a bonus for me since it means I can log into Guild chat and maybe play the odd hour when I'm travelling. I doubt I would use it for more than an hour or two.

[Chaostik]

Ok - sorry for not responding for a while: I've been fiddling trying all the options.  With the XP comment from LarryTalbot and much messing about on my part I've pretty much reached these conclusions: i)  I've tried both Vista Ultimate and XP Pro SP2 and there is no comparison: for the <i>new</i> Macbook Pros, XP Pro SP2 wins hands down.  None of the crashing or stuttering experienced with Vista.  I assume the difference with the last gen MBPs which needed the other way round comes down to differing driver maturity for the old ATI -vs- new nVidia gfx. ii)  I <b>strongly</b> recommend getting <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/holtmann/eidac/software/smcfancontrol2/index.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">smcFanControl</a> ... if you set your fan speed to 6000rpm and soft reboot then the setting is remembered when you load XP.  The setting then reverts to default if you power off the system.  Given the speed of these MBPs, a quick boot into OS X to set the fan speed is small price to pay for a cool laptop. iii)  You could get away without it, but I bought a laptop cooler which only needs to be used when playing games ... rest of the time I use my MBP as normal. With the 3 things above I've now had a few uber sessions and no hint of a problem.  I get about 30fps at native 1440x900 in balanced in the heat of battle in a full group (on my Troub which has tonnes of spell effects) - when just wandering about I get about 60fps. Couldn't be happier! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />