Changes on Test

[Bre]

<p>Hey guys just thought I would drop in and say hello.</p><p>First off, I play a ranger on PvE Test. So I know little to nothing about the sin class. What I do know is this, I am now getting outparsed in raids by an assassin and swash that I normally bury. So if there are any that are wondering about your futures post GU 36 just sit back, study the changes and how to roll with them. From my vantage point you guys are doing fine. It looks like we have a good battle ahead of us and I for one am really looking foreward to some real competitions for top spot. </p><p>This isn't a flame, decoy, or anything else other than what it is. Competition for first just got stepped up and it looks like we have some brilliantly brutal fights ahead of us. Here's to competition! /cheers!</p><p>Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server.</p>

[Aker]

Thx for info and good wishes. I'm really sorry they  putting you guys down with ammo changing some of it was overpowered but they do going little to much with lowering it I think. I have 2 great rangers in my guild and have hard time to beat them in DPS in the moment and very rarely  managing it at all,  but for sure not happy if they going down in DPS big time. That will not hurt only them will hurt my guild raid force. Competition spirit do make me little mad when I can't beat your 100% hits but, to be honest I really get mad only when I need to compete  with rouges and summoners  for top DPS spots and I really hope they will rethink changes for you and give you some slack with ammo changes. We know how it looks when you not bringing nothing but DPS to table and they hit you hard there like us with EoF AA (guess that was reason we wasn't hit this time they didn't have space to Nerf us more if we going to exist at all in the game)

[Bre]

<p>  Don't be sorry for the changes, imo some were needed. I think that they went a little far with the arrow nerfs at first but they are correcting it. Competition is good, it breeds better players. Hopefully when this all settles we'll have some real fights for first. And I can't tell you how happy my guild sin and swash were to beat me for once. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Of course losing has lit quite a fire under my butt. But it is really quite a rush now to check the parse and not be sure of the outcome. </p><p>Brega - 70 Ranger, Test Server</p>

[Jayad]

I think we'll be dying as much as mages after the LU anyways. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[grish]

Yeah, I cant wait for that. May need to chain a weeee bit differently.

[judged_one]

<cite>rockLj wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thx for info and good wishes. I'm really sorry they  putting you guys down with ammo changing some of it was overpowered but they do going little to much with lowering it I think. I have 2 great rangers in my guild and have hard time to beat them in DPS in the moment and very rarely  managing it at all,  but for sure not happy if they going down in DPS big time. That will not hurt only them will hurt my guild raid force. Competition spirit do make me little mad when I can't beat your 100% hits but, to be honest I really get mad only when I need to compete  with rouges and summoners  for top DPS spots and I really hope they will rethink changes for you and give you some slack with ammo changes. We know how it looks when you not bringing nothing but DPS to table and they hit you hard there like us with EoF AA (guess that was reason we wasn't hit this time they didn't have space to Nerf us more if we going to exist at all in the game) </blockquote> Beside hate changes, I dont see how Summoner are effected.But the game was pretty close to balance before the initial ammo changes, imho I think the double attack changes alone would put the game in almost balance, beside summoner which is another thread. Too bad now everything will be out of wheck, and if assassin is going to be overpowered, we will get some crappy aa and set bonus again in RoK.Using AA to balance a class is the lamest thing to do.

[Zen]

I'm trying to give SOE the benefit of the doubt on all these changes that are coming up. True or not, I like to think that they do have a big picture in mind, and that it will all work out just fine. The more I look into, or analyze these changes, the less they really bother me. I'm almost happy that people will actually having a choice as to how they set up their characters now.. instead of the old (assassin example) .. "You're not STR/INT AA? What a noob... /cancel account!" mentality. I can see how this will add a certain amount of variety and promote a need for a bit more skill than just mashing buttons in the same order over and over again. I personally like having the ability to pull aggro accidentally and paying the price for doing so (I don't mean by using decapitate on the pull either). It's more exciting when you are constantly trying to hover on that edge of top dps and getting yourself killed. No matter what SOE does, people will complain.. I mean.. they are even complaining about having money roll over to higher amounts... why? Who cares if money rolls over?? I can see getting a little upset or annoyed over a change to your class.. but currency roll over? There is nothing real about this game anyway.. I don't see why people get so crazy about all these little things. Sorry, got a little sidetracked lol.. Bottom line.. I feel that I play my class well, I love playing an assassin, and have a blast in any groups/raids I'm in.. and no matter what they change, I will continue to do so. SOE is not new at the gaming industry.. they might change things here and there.. they might even change things that upset alot of people.. but I highly doubt they would EVER make any horribly unfair, or poorly thought out change, and risk losing business. I think it will all work out just fine if people just give it a chance, and stop trying to find things to complain about (the money issue!!) lol..

[Kaiser Sigma]

Zenon@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>I'm almost happy that people will actually having a choice as to how they set up their characters now.. instead of the old (assassin example) .. "You're not STR/INT AA? What a noob... /cancel account!" mentality. I can see how this will add a certain amount of variety and promote a need for a bit more skill than just mashing buttons in the same order over and over again. </blockquote>If you don't pick STR / INT after the changes you will still be a newb. Trading single target dps for multiple target dps is not very smart considering only certain amount of trash is multiple target based.

[Aker]

I disagree on AA be wrong place to fix balance. Because mostly that is a place where Balance was ruined. Rogues got there awesome DPS boost in there KoS AA tree. Swashbucklers and us bout have hate transfer (which will be same amount now) but they couldn't ever take us place in MT group till they didn't become good DPS as we are. Where did summoners got there DPS boost to be thrown  in T1  DPS class? (necro get LB  as regular spell or  AA ability? I really don't know much about them) How did they nerf us not to become overpowered  DPS class? Wasn't that with 50 useless EoF AA? (well now some will have use we will all need to have boost on ignorant bliss <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) Pure DPS class with 50 AA that not busting any DPS? (I'm ok with that wouldn't be fair that 2-3 assassins become all DPS you need in raid) Like I sad AA was good idea but implemented badly and I still think some big problems started there and should be fixed there.

[joebyrdw]

Zenon@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote> SOE is not new at the gaming industry.. they might change things here and there.. they might even change things that upset alot of people.. but I highly doubt they would EVER make any horribly unfair, or poorly thought out change, and risk losing business. I think it will all work out just fine if people just give it a chance, and stop trying to find things to complain about (the money issue!!) lol.. </blockquote><p>I pretty much agree with every thing else you have said, but as any SWG vet can tell you, SOE will make huge horribly unfair and poorly thought out changes to the core systems of a game just for S#ts and giggles.</p><p>I'm sure these changes are nothing like what they did over there but for anyone who went though that the words "balance" and "change" are the scariest things you can hear. </p><p>STR, INT will still be the most used AA line for Assassins unless the aggro changes make it impossible for a MT to hold aggro. </p><p>I am looking forward to playing the changes, and seeing for my self whats going on. </p>

[Zen]

I never actually tried SWG but I keep hearing about how badly it got ruined... they really messed up badly on that one huh? I guess I'm glad that I was too busy with other games when it came out lol.. Oh, and to touch on what a few posters above said.. I will never be a newb!!!! Seriously, I'll still be sticking with STR/INT <u>unless</u> a change is needed. But, if the new changes does balance things out to an extent where staying with the current setup gets us killed... then we will have to rethink and go a little heavier into one or the other and maybe consider the WIS line for hate reduction. Or maybe the EoF tree hate reduction poison branch might be all the change we need... can't really say at this point how these changes will affect us, or what measures will need to be taken to compensate for them. All I was saying was that I'm looking at these changes as neutrally as possible, and trying to see the thought process behind them. I'm just trying not to think of these changes as the "game killer" like many others are. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also.. I don't think they are making the changes to STA for raiders necessarily.. that obviously would be the weakest line. But, everyone who uses AA doesn't necessarily raid. People seem to forget that.. non raiders need AA too! I see the STA line geared more towards people that group mostly and even solo situations. The AGI with that extra stun and faster in combat movement seems more solo oriented too imo.

[Lord Montague]

Karel@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Zenon@Permafrost wrote: <blockquote>I'm almost happy that people will actually having a choice as to how they set up their characters now.. instead of the old (assassin example) .. "You're not STR/INT AA? What a noob... /cancel account!" mentality. I can see how this will add a certain amount of variety and promote a need for a bit more skill than just mashing buttons in the same order over and over again. </blockquote>If you don't pick STR / INT after the changes you will still be a newb. Trading single target dps for multiple target dps is not very smart considering only certain amount of trash is multiple target based. </blockquote><p> If things were staying at the status quo, then I'd agree, except for one little thing that's given me pause for thought on the Wisdom line:</p><p>Wisdom 4 - Obfuscation: <b>Also increases damage of the following combat art by 1% per rank.</b></p><p>If I am reading that correctly, the next combat art you hit coming out of stealth will be increased in damage by that percentage.  Perhaps a compensation for not having the spell crits?  To me, this alone makes it a very viable choice, and I think I'll actually try it and see what it does.</p>

[Kaiser Sigma]

Seirrah@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote><p>Wisdom 4 - Obfuscation: <b>Also increases damage of the following combat art by 1% per rank.</b></p><p>If I am reading that correctly, the next combat art you hit coming out of stealth will be increased in damage by that percentage.  Perhaps a compensation for not having the spell crits?  To me, this alone makes it a very viable choice, and I think I'll actually try it and see what it does.</p></blockquote> This is a parse from Hurricanus that I picked for demonstrative purposes. It was a pickup raid, I only had an illusionist without double attack (although next GU it won't matter for procs), a troubador (he did not have Harmonization yet) and a Fury as buffers. Also, I'm far from being a good assassin, I still can't work out certain bad habits so maybe these numbers would be slightly different for better assassins who use their Stabs better. Also I have the three pieces set bonus of our fabled set so I use KB everytime it's up. <img src="http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/9485/parseii3.jpg" border="0"> Next is a table with the numbers for the things that'd be affected by the Str / Wis: poisons, procs and stealth attacks. Type                 Damage     w/Wis        Ext DPS    w/Wis    Min Hit    Max Hit        Hits    CritHits     w/Wis Swings caustic poison      69694    46454            213,13    142,06    790         1541        55         24           4     55 Agonizing Pain     46143     28845           141,11    88,21     627         1673         41         16           3     41 Killing Blade         35361     38189,88      108,14    116,79     7361     11106         4         2             2     4 Puncture Blade    32177     34751,16         98,4     106,27     934       2342         18         4             4     18 Decapitate            27249     29428,92     83,33     90,00     27249     27249         1         1             1     1 Noxious Venom     17050         -             52,14        -         578        1016         21         9             -     100 Eviscerate             15802    17066,16     48,32     52,19     2842       5415         4           1             1     4 Bladed Fury         12788      6340           39,11     19,39     165         695         32           18           2     91,43 Cloaked Assault   12208      13184,64     37,33     40,32     274         1850         24         8             8     24 Scale Rend           11907     7458          36,41      22,81     127         404         50         17             4     92,59 Jugular                 10185    10999,8        31,15    33,64     2042       3213         4         0               0     4 Slaughtersault       6754      7294,32       20,65     22,31     1888       2547         3         1               1     3 Lifedraw               5152      4119            15,76     12,60     318         621         12         8               1     100 Ethereal Strike      2369      2116            7,24         6,47     529        741         4         3                 0     100 Ext DPS with Str / Int: 932.22 Ext DPS with Str / Wis: 753.05 You have a difference of 179.17 on your extended DPS. Granted some of these are rough estimations, crits without Int line are assuming you have a bard in your group. A 5:11 (hey, it was a pickup raid and I'm in LDL, we are bynary designed to suck) fight isn't enough to demonstrate much but it's a start. This difference would become wider as you have more procs on you. Ie: Dirge or mage group with wizard + conjuror. Also, better quality poison like Poisoned Seeds of the Tender would make Wis look worse. It's an "interesting" choice but honestly no assassin will sacrifice DPS to have less aggro. You are best using 5 points in your assassin tree to enhance Ignorant Bliss. Edit: ok...the copy + paste sucks~.

[Kaiser Sigma]

Changes to hate were reverted on test so..I guess now Wisdom for predators and Intelligence for Rogues are once again out of the question. =p

[Lord Montague]

<p>Maybe Karel, but your parse was on LDL without the changes to the AA's isn't it?  Sure, witout the spell crits the DPS goes down ~200 (more or less depending on your choice of poisons, combat art cycle, etc).  Now what I'll want to see for myself is after taking that into account is what actually happens when that damage increase is taken into account.  And it's ANY combat art as you come out of stealth.  A concealment chain comprised of more than just the major backstabs comes to mind.  *schemes*</p>