Enchanters & Perpetuality, post AA changes. Intended?

[tracheaspider]

<p>So I got all excited about the possiblity of the agility line getting the freehand restriction removed, but logging into Test today, I found out it's only the case for Chronosiphoning (along with an accompanying 8.5% nerf in cast speed).  Perpetuality still requires the offhand to be free.  (This was confirmed by a higher level illy there.) </p><p> <img src="http://home.comcast.net/~madiarin/perpetuality.jpg" border="0"></p><p>I can see why removing the restriction from Chronosiphoning and not Perpetuality <i>might</i> be intended, if it's meant to give more spell haste to chanters not fully specced down the agility line.  However, it seems a little out of line with the other restriction removals.  Granted, I wouldn't look forward to a reduction in the haste percent in "exchange" for getting to use Perp with a second symbol or 2hander equipped, either.  It would be nice to get the intentions behind this addressed.  Thanks.</p>

[TheDragon]

<p>The lose in spell from Chronosiphoning is 15% btw.. at rank 8.</p><p> All I can say is if they forgot about perpetuality and end up "fixing" it to remove the offhand empty restriction while lowering the amount of haste it gives in the process.... I'm back to looking for another character to play.  I was actually enjoying being able to do decent DPS on raids with my Illusionist and liking the game, but if they lower our haste anymore its just not going to be possible to do decent damage.</p><p>Which will leave chanters as buff bots again on raids... pointless.</p><p>Please please do not lower the haste anymore.  If its that or leaving the offhand restriction on perpetuality.... please leave the restriction.  It won't matter that I can use my secondary if I have no hope of decent DPS.  Heck, it won't matter if I'm naked.... as most healers would out damage me.</p>

[tracheaspider]

<p>Oops, we're both wrong about about the reduction in Chronosiphoning.  I was calculating the final amount using the base for the debuff portion.  The actual nerf is 5% to the debuff and *17.5%* to the buff at rank 8.  (Rank 8 will give 25% debuff and 12.5% cast speed buff.)  But don't take my word for it: <img src="http://home.comcast.net/~madiarin/chronosiphoning.jpg" border="0"></p><p>If I have to keep my offhand free for Perpetuality <i>anyways</i> I really don't like this change.  It would be much smarter and more satisfying if they didn't necessarily change AAs with restrictions wholesale but offered a bonus to people choosing the "penalty" of restricted gear.  So if you had something in your secondary slot, you'd get 12.5% haste, and if that slot remained open, you'd get the full 30%.  But that would probably mess up whatever "vision" they have for epic weapons.  Or something.</p>

[MadLordOfMilk]

Assuming the stats would stack within the same buff... -Increases casting speed by 9% -Increases casting speed by 6% --If offhand is empty Or something along that line of creation would allow a variable amount (in this particular example, 9% w/offhand equipped, 15% with freehand). Seems like a reasonable alternative.

[chily]

<p>Perpetuality still requires the offhand to be free.  :/ Coercer are not the biggest dps around and with the hate trans that we get i had been handsome if we can use a item in offhand for speed casting. ... well for some constant hate trans we need fast casting a bit :/ and some int more would help us to get a tiny bit more dps together. I allso think that agi line got changed coz the most are on int line .. with that change more will go to int line then to agi line. I don't think it's balance .. give us a offhand for Perpetuality then i think all aggree that agi line is a alternative to int line ( and other lines ) Which other class still needs offhand free or a special item in offhand apart from us enchanters ? ? not sure but i think enchanters are the only now <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Oh or is it more for illu? why don't add if caster is illu for the requirement?</p>

[chily]

<p>Could someone on testserver check Perpetuality again? I heard rumors it got changed.</p>

[WAPCE]

Confirmed by Lockeye on the 13th it was an oversight, fixed by the 15th. Mentioned in the Illusionist forum thread "AA nerf."

[Nanyea]

Thankfully the hate transfer got nixed, but as a Coercer the chrono-siphoning buff doesn't really do me a lot of good since my spells are DOTs/reactives or fast casting (or long recast) Anyhow I would like to get a bit more oomph out of the line, especially since the other changes for us are very minor or overlapping (wisdom/stamina threat)

[PaganSaint]

The only thing they were removing weapon requirements for, except for ranged and shield, were the Stat-2 abilities and a select few of the Stat-3 and -4 abilities. Not all of them.

[chily]

<cite>WAPCE wrote:</cite><blockquote>Confirmed by Lockeye on the 13th it was an oversight, fixed by the 15th. Mentioned in the Illusionist forum thread "AA nerf." </blockquote> Lockeye didn't posted it there .. you say that you asked him and got a answer. that is no really valid info sry, coz he only said it should be fixed soon. Please can someone make a screenshot from Perpetuality on testserver and post it here. I wanna see it with my own eye's <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thx <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Iseabeil]

<p>From when I was on test last ( some day ago):</p><p><img src="http://www.ladiesempire.com/test_perp.gif" border="0"></p><p>The flavour text says it needs offhand empty whilst the 'main' description doesnt. As the speed increase is the same I somewhat doubt this is the final state of it tho, as that would mean pure benefit with no loss at all to an AA line that close to all dps specced enchanters (ie majority of all illusionists) uses. As much as I would like it to be like that when it goes live, Ive got a feeling it wont, with what they want to do to AA's.</p>

[TheDragon]

Chronosiphoning is already losing 17.5% spell haste at highest rank.  I think that is enough of a nerf to the speed increase of this line even if Perpetuality is left as you posted.  If they dropped the haste given from Perpetuality as well, then chanters that can now do decent dps will not just lose some... they will be re-defined as a buff class again.  Spell haste is the only thing that allows chanters to dps as it is, and its not like we are toping parses (T2 dps vs being down with the healers).

[Controlor]

I prepose a compramise...... We already lost half of our chrono. Well if they knock 10% off the top of perpet (making it 10% stead of 12% per trigger).... THEN LET US CAST TC ON OUR SELVES.......

[Koibito]

<p>yes freehand requirement was removed from perpetuality.</p><p>i have a bad memory. please correct me if i'm wrong.</p><p>if i remember correctly perpetuality builds up as you cast -> motion 1 (12%), 2 (24%), 3 (36%), 4 (48%), 5 (60%).</p><p>then if you stop, it slowly goes down. motion 5 fades, then back down to motion 4, then 3 and so on. correct?</p><p>meaning if you lose motion 5 atleast you can work back up from motion 4 and so on.</p><p>now on test server. once you reach motion 5. if you lose maintanence of it you lose all spell haste from perpetuality. that means you have to rework your way back up from motion 0 (0%).</p><p>i believe this bug has something to do with combining all 5 icons in to 1 and making the colors change from "cold to hot". instead of cooling down we just outright lose perpetuality.</p>

[Controlor]

<cite>Koibito wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>yes freehand requirement was removed from perpetuality.</p><p>i have a bad memory. please correct me if i'm wrong.</p><p>if i remember correctly perpetuality builds up as you cast -> motion 1 (12%), 2 (24%), 3 (36%), 4 (48%), 5 (60%).</p><p>then if you stop, it slowly goes down. motion 5 fades, then back down to motion 4, then 3 and so on. correct?</p><p>meaning if you lose motion 5 atleast you can work back up from motion 4 and so on.</p><p>now on test server. once you reach motion 5. if you lose maintanence of it you lose all spell haste from perpetuality. that means you have to rework your way back up from motion 0 (0%).</p><p>i believe this bug has something to do with combining all 5 icons in to 1 and making the colors change from "cold to hot". instead of cooling down we just outright lose perpetuality.</p></blockquote>ACk omg i hope that is a bug. Cause that is a big nerfing of perpet if it does that.....

[chily]

Thank you for your post of the pic <b>Iseabeil</b> <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> If the stack up of casting speed is a bug or not we can check live soon i think.

[Iseabeil]

<cite>Koibito wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>yes freehand requirement was removed from perpetuality.</p><p>i have a bad memory. please correct me if i'm wrong.</p><p>if i remember correctly perpetuality builds up as you cast -> motion 1 (12%), 2 (24%), 3 (36%), 4 (48%), 5 (60%).</p><p>then if you stop, it slowly goes down. motion 5 fades, then back down to motion 4, then 3 and so on. correct?</p><p>meaning if you lose motion 5 atleast you can work back up from motion 4 and so on.</p><p>now on test server. once you reach motion 5. if you lose maintanence of it you lose all spell haste from perpetuality. that means you have to rework your way back up from motion 0 (0%).</p><p>i believe this bug has something to do with combining all 5 icons in to 1 and making the colors change from "cold to hot". instead of cooling down we just outright lose perpetuality.</p></blockquote>I really hope this is a bug, it can be hard enough as it is to keep the haste up, with lag and latencies. On PHH I never manage to keep any haste going, even when we are the only guild there that fight somehow lags me bad and when there are two guilds.. well, its impossible to get the next spell actually cast fast enough to get beyond 12% so once the next spell finally casts perpetuality has already expired *sighs*. I like the idea of perpetuality, and when things work its an awesome AA, but its so easie to lose out of the benefits due to lag and connection. Playing on a US server from europe with fairly bad ping, any raid zone is somewhat lagged and contested generally hurt bad, the idea of it being even more suspect of lag issues isnt too happy news. Almost makes me wish I had constant lag as those few occassions when things float well makes it feel even worse when it doesnt.

[Elephanton]

<p>Sounds like a bug because supposedly there was only one cosmetic/GUI change around how Perpetuality effect is displayed - and nothing else.</p><p>Patch notes were saying about user interface change only with this skill.</p>

[Rarlin]

<p>I realize that this post is going to probably get me killed...</p><p> Even with the nerfs we're still going to be able to do some nice DPS... I'd rather be nerfed in the DPS department than in the support...</p>

[WAPCE]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Koibito wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>yes freehand requirement was removed from perpetuality.</p><p>i have a bad memory. please correct me if i'm wrong.</p><p>if i remember correctly perpetuality builds up as you cast -> motion 1 (12%), 2 (24%), 3 (36%), 4 (48%), 5 (60%).</p><p>then if you stop, it slowly goes down. motion 5 fades, then back down to motion 4, then 3 and so on. correct?</p><p>meaning if you lose motion 5 atleast you can work back up from motion 4 and so on.</p><p>now on test server. once you reach motion 5. if you lose maintanence of it you lose all spell haste from perpetuality. that means you have to rework your way back up from motion 0 (0%).</p><p>i believe this bug has something to do with combining all 5 icons in to 1 and making the colors change from "cold to hot". instead of cooling down we just outright lose perpetuality.</p></blockquote>ACk omg i hope that is a bug. Cause that is a big nerfing of perpet if it does that..... </blockquote>I fail to see this is a significant nerf. Previously, if you didn't get off another spell in 2.8 seconds, you lost all Perpetuality. Now you need to do it in 2.0. Sure, there was some extra breathing room in the old version, but I'll gladly trade that for not having all those extra icons. Casting a spell every 2 seconds is <b>not</b> difficult, regardless of the mob. Edit: In fact, it will be even easier to cast in that 2.0 seconds because our recovery reduction AA was buffed.

[Elephanton]

<p>Right now on live I can never keep Motion5 no matter how hard I try due to network lags mostly. Complete loss of perpetuality haste after each lag will be extremely irritating. I keep my fingers crossed that this is a bug.</p>

[Controlor]

<cite>WAPCE wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Koibito wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>yes freehand requirement was removed from perpetuality.</p><p>i have a bad memory. please correct me if i'm wrong.</p><p>if i remember correctly perpetuality builds up as you cast -> motion 1 (12%), 2 (24%), 3 (36%), 4 (48%), 5 (60%).</p><p>then if you stop, it slowly goes down. motion 5 fades, then back down to motion 4, then 3 and so on. correct?</p><p>meaning if you lose motion 5 atleast you can work back up from motion 4 and so on.</p><p>now on test server. once you reach motion 5. if you lose maintanence of it you lose all spell haste from perpetuality. that means you have to rework your way back up from motion 0 (0%).</p><p>i believe this bug has something to do with combining all 5 icons in to 1 and making the colors change from "cold to hot". instead of cooling down we just outright lose perpetuality.</p></blockquote>ACk omg i hope that is a bug. Cause that is a big nerfing of perpet if it does that..... </blockquote>I fail to see this is a significant nerf. Previously, if you didn't get off another spell in 2.8 seconds, you lost all Perpetuality. Now you need to do it in 2.0. Sure, there was some extra breathing room in the old version, but I'll gladly trade that for not having all those extra icons. Casting a spell every 2 seconds is <b>not</b> difficult, regardless of the mob. Edit: In fact, it will be even easier to cast in that 2.0 seconds because our recovery reduction AA was buffed. </blockquote>That buffer room is a BIG thing tho. One resist of a spell and your pepet drops. I get my nuke resisted and it drops to 3rd or 4th but i STILL have that extra haste to cast. If it drops all together one resist can reset the entire pepetuality. To me thats a big problem.

[WAPCE]

<cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>WAPCE wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Koibito wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>yes freehand requirement was removed from perpetuality.</p><p>i have a bad memory. please correct me if i'm wrong.</p><p>if i remember correctly perpetuality builds up as you cast -> motion 1 (12%), 2 (24%), 3 (36%), 4 (48%), 5 (60%).</p><p>then if you stop, it slowly goes down. motion 5 fades, then back down to motion 4, then 3 and so on. correct?</p><p>meaning if you lose motion 5 atleast you can work back up from motion 4 and so on.</p><p>now on test server. once you reach motion 5. if you lose maintanence of it you lose all spell haste from perpetuality. that means you have to rework your way back up from motion 0 (0%).</p><p>i believe this bug has something to do with combining all 5 icons in to 1 and making the colors change from "cold to hot". instead of cooling down we just outright lose perpetuality.</p></blockquote>ACk omg i hope that is a bug. Cause that is a big nerfing of perpet if it does that..... </blockquote>I fail to see this is a significant nerf. Previously, if you didn't get off another spell in 2.8 seconds, you lost all Perpetuality. Now you need to do it in 2.0. Sure, there was some extra breathing room in the old version, but I'll gladly trade that for not having all those extra icons. Casting a spell every 2 seconds is <b>not</b> difficult, regardless of the mob. Edit: In fact, it will be even easier to cast in that 2.0 seconds because our recovery reduction AA was buffed. </blockquote>That buffer room is a BIG thing tho. One resist of a spell and your pepet drops. I get my nuke resisted and it drops to 3rd or 4th but i STILL have that extra haste to cast. If it drops all together one resist can reset the entire pepetuality. To me thats a big problem. </blockquote>Perpetuality triggers on spell cast, not hostile spell hit. Whether it's a hostile spell, spell attack, or group buff, casting will trigger perpetuality.

[chily]

WAPCE wrote: <blockquote>Perpetuality triggers on spell cast, not hostile spell hit. Whether it's a hostile spell, spell attack, or group buff, casting will trigger perpetuality. </blockquote><p> That is not right, it triggers with spell cast and with hostile spell hit (for Aoe).</p><p>(Coercers spells) If you cast beholders eye (group buff) for example with 5 ppl in group you get from motion*5 in 1 cast If you cast your debuff on a mob you get motion*1 If you cast Spell source on a encounter of 5 mob you can get motion*5 if you don't get resisted.     for example encounter of 5 mobs and 4 mobs resist you get motion*1   (pretty sure about that)</p>

[Pogball]

This just seems a case of SoE, if it aint broke why fix it? Save maybe the icon spam I really dont see the need to change it

[Controlor]

<cite>WAPCE wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Controlor wrote:</cite><blockquote> </blockquote>Perpetuality triggers on spell cast, not hostile spell hit. Whether it's a hostile spell, spell attack, or group buff, casting will trigger perpetuality. </blockquote>You have it a bit off. Perpet will trigger when a spell LANDS. Not just when its casted. If you hit your group buffs and your the only one in range (even if other people are in group) you will only see T1. If you cast a hostile spell and it gets resisted you will DROP 1-2 teirs. But if it is how it is now and a hostile spell gets resisted i can loose perpet all together. That is a BAD thing. Because i can often recover from dropping teirs as it still is 30%+ hasted (heck could be 40% still). And any haste > no haste.

[WAPCE]

Chillispike@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>WAPCE wrote: <blockquote>Perpetuality triggers on spell cast, not hostile spell hit. Whether it's a hostile spell, spell attack, or group buff, casting will trigger perpetuality. </blockquote><p> That is not right, it triggers with spell cast and with hostile spell hit (for Aoe).</p><p>(Coercers spells) If you cast beholders eye (group buff) for example with 5 ppl in group you get from motion*5 in 1 cast If you cast your debuff on a mob you get motion*1 If you cast Spell source on a encounter of 5 mob you can get motion*5 if you don't get resisted.     for example encounter of 5 mobs and 4 mobs resist you get motion*1   (pretty sure about that)</p></blockquote>You're right, it triggers on cast and land, I phrased my response badly. I was responding to the comment that a resist will drop perpetuality, which is not the case, as *any* cast will give you 2 more seconds to cast and maintain it. Again, that's not a difficult thing. Hell, use Dispel Magic or Cure Arcane if you absolutely have nothing else to cast to keep it up.

[Iseabeil]

<cite>WAPCE wrote:</cite><blockquote> You're right, it triggers on cast and land, I phrased my response badly. I was responding to the comment that a resist will drop perpetuality, which is not the case, as *any* cast will give you 2 more seconds to cast and maintain it. Again, that's not a difficult thing. Hell, use Dispel Magic or Cure Arcane if you absolutely have nothing else to cast to keep it up. </blockquote> My problem isnt to have something to cast, theres usually something 'useless' to cast, my problem comes when you cast a spell and it takes up to 2s untill the actual casting starts (ie. when there is serious lag, wich happens a tad too often to me for my liking).

[Elephanton]

<p>Exactly my point, lags ruin this AA. It should be reverted back to what it was. Again SOE has "fixed" what's not broken and broke it.</p><p>I can accept that due to SOE QC using local test server (or fast dedicated connection to the test server), they experience no lags and thus could not reproduce this issue - and so they missed it. What I can't accept is that they completely ignored the customers' complaints about this change. Why they would not listen?</p>

[Controlor]

<cite>WAPCE wrote:</cite><blockquote>Chillispike@Splitpaw wrote: <blockquote>WAPCE wrote: <blockquote>Perpetuality triggers on spell cast, not hostile spell hit. Whether it's a hostile spell, spell attack, or group buff, casting will trigger perpetuality. </blockquote><p> That is not right, it triggers with spell cast and with hostile spell hit (for Aoe).</p><p>(Coercers spells) If you cast beholders eye (group buff) for example with 5 ppl in group you get from motion*5 in 1 cast If you cast your debuff on a mob you get motion*1 If you cast Spell source on a encounter of 5 mob you can get motion*5 if you don't get resisted.     for example encounter of 5 mobs and 4 mobs resist you get motion*1   (pretty sure about that)</p></blockquote>You're right, it triggers on cast and land, I phrased my response badly. I was responding to the comment that a resist will drop perpetuality, which is not the case, as *any* cast will give you 2 more seconds to cast and maintain it. Again, that's not a difficult thing. Hell, use Dispel Magic or Cure Arcane if you absolutely have nothing else to cast to keep it up. </blockquote>As it is live now i can say this. Resists WILL knock this spell down. How that happens. You cast a hostile spell (take your primary nuke .5 seconds) it gets resisted. add in the global cool down after the spell casts. Try to cast another spell and it lands. But wait my perpet is reverted to T1. The reason is because it landed less than 0.5 seconds after my buff dropped (sometimes almost instantly after it drops). That buffer room is big for a resist. And it is not when you cast a spell. Never was when you cast a spell. Never will be when you cast a spell. If you cast a spell your perpet buff WONT appear on you until that spell is finished casting and LANDS. Its determined on spells landing. Buffs are guaranteed and a group buff (if everyone in group is in range) will put you at perpet 5. You dont instantly get perpet if you start a cast it has to land first. If a hostile spell cant land it can has and will cause perpet 5 to drop just because of all the timings adding up to more than 2 seconds. I would like to see this put back to how it was. I had no problem with 5 buffs from perpet on me. And if this was truely just cosmetic change like it said then even if i let peret 5 wind down it should "COOL" down not just instantly drop. Wind back down from 5 to 4 to 3 to ..... etc.

[TheDragon]

<p>Some initial testing seems to point to a bug with this change.</p><p> If you cast a group buff so you are at perp 5, you "should" see a cool down from the .8 seconds difference in P1 and P5 lengths.  I can't visually see this now.  So, testing it by waiting and casting a spell right before it is going to drop so it lands just after the icon goes away.... P1 is put up... not P5 as it should be.</p><p> The only other thing I forgot to test during this was if  the "hot" icon was actually lasting for the entire 2.8 seconds of P1 duration, in which case its working like it did before but we just get fooled with the new icon.  In this case its a smaller bug but still a bug.</p>

[chily]

<p>Motion V should last for be 2.2 secs. (0.2 secs longer) Some how it's harder to hold Motion V now and if you lagged just a tiny bit 0.5 secs can be enought you loose all your speed. The spell got changed in a other way too. If you are on the first Motion V you can see that it casts Motion V again. Before the change it started by Motion I again after Motion V so you allways had some casting speed left. The cool down we are missing came from the other Motions .. Motion 4 holds longer then Motion 5 and so on. I understand that it should be nicer now, but it isn't the spell got to hard to keep it up. how about 2.8 secs for every motion? jk</p><p>I think it's only a litte bit that we need to keep the speed up. either 0.2 or 0.4 secs</p>