Coercer Hate transfer???

[Roriondesexiest]

<p>You have to be kidding me.</p><p>Test update notes talk about coercer hate buff changing to part transfer part straight buff.</p><p>+dmg adornments don't increase most of our damage since it is based on reactives</p><p>You give us spells that damage mobs when they use power, mobs don't use power</p><p>You give us spells that damage mobs when they cast spells, most mobs don't cast spells they use abilities.</p><p>Maybe you ought to fix our dps before you do something like this...</p><p>Most coercers in a raid do 500-800 dmg, not very helpful as a hate transfer...</p>

[Jesdyr]

hehe .. I was waiting for this post yah .. our damage sucks .. but hate != dps

[Nodok]

Yeah, I agree.  If they upped our damage to respectable mage levels, this change would be easier to handle.

[Roriondesexiest]

<cite>JesDer wrote:</cite><blockquote>hehe .. I was waiting for this post yah .. our damage sucks .. but hate != dps </blockquote><p> The way I understand it hate = dps if you hit the mob for 5k worth of damage and tank with 0 transfers on him has only taunted the mob once for 2k worth of hate from the taunt the mob will pass right by the tank to the person that just hit for 5k</p><p>1 point of damage = 1 point of hate.</p><p>So when you transfer hate you want to be doing alot of damage.</p>

[Uinael_Guk]

I'm glad i'm not a coercer.  This is a slap in the face to them imo.   

[Mistletoes]

Other things generate hate too, but the point is still valid. Coercers in general don't generate much hate compared to many other classes. To move us from a constant, high aggro buff, to a lower, variable aggro version will do something that I don't think the developers intend. I think it will pigeon-hole more coercers into the AGI/INT line, because I'll bet you that is the only line that can generate a nice amount of aggro for the tank. I never wanted to be a DPS coercer, but now, even just for grouping, to get the same aggro effect on my tank, I might just have to.

[Roriondesexiest]

<cite>Mistletoes wrote:</cite><blockquote>Other things generate hate too, but the point is still valid. Coercers in general don't generate much hate compared to many other classes. To move us from a constant, high aggro buff, to a lower, variable aggro version will do something that I don't think the developers intend. I think it will pigeon-hole more coercers into the AGI/INT line, because I'll bet you that is the only line that can generate a nice amount of aggro for the tank. I never wanted to be a DPS coercer, but now, even just for grouping, to get the same aggro effect on my tank, I might just have to.</blockquote><p> Very true part of what they were intending was to make the less desirable AA lines more useful.  If you are a MT coercer you will have to drop your support lines and go fully AGI/INT for the dps.</p>

[Lornick]

First, this is the wrong forum for this thread.  It should be in the coercer section or spells/combat arts one.  Second... and perhaps I'm the one wrong here.  But coercers don't have a "hate transfer" spell.  They have a "hate increase" spell.  In principle the same as the dirge one.  You're personal dps/aggro doesn't do jack to increase the tank's hate.

[redde]

<cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote>First, this is the wrong forum for this thread.  It should be in the coercer section or spells/combat arts one.  Second... and perhaps I'm the one wrong here.  But coercers don't have a "hate transfer" spell.  They have a "hate increase" spell.  In principle the same as the dirge one.  You're personal dps/aggro doesn't do jack to increase the tank's hate.</blockquote>Well you are right on the first part, and it just so happens there's an almost identical thread in the coercer forums. The whole point of the thread, though, is that upcoming changes turn the +% hate gain into a partial +%hate gain and a partial %hate transfer to target.

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<p>This is sad really, as an MT I'm really starting to think an illusionist would be better; I'll get more hate through illusory arm and time compression (not to mention haste > dps mod, since I can self-buff dps mod to 100ish through gear).</p><p>Coercers still have some things going for them, and they're not the most useless class on a raid by any means, but I'd agree giving a hate transfer to a class which has low DPS in the first place makes very little sense. Maybe it should be made into a group transfer so ~4% of hate from each group member is transferred to the MT.</p>

[Roriondesexiest]

<cite>Lornick wrote:</cite><blockquote>First, this is the wrong forum for this thread.  It should be in the coercer section or spells/combat arts one.  Second... and perhaps I'm the one wrong here.  But coercers don't have a "hate transfer" spell.  They have a "hate increase" spell.  In principle the same as the dirge one.  You're personal dps/aggro doesn't do jack to increase the tank's hate.</blockquote><p> Gee, thanks for your input, very helpful.</p><p>As far as this thread being here, isn't the Gameplay Discussion forum the general [Removed for Content] and moan about my class forum?  </p>

[Bawang]

<p>Yeah, this is what is says exactly:</p><p>Coercer</p><ul><li>Smirking Demeanor: Reduced hate increase component, but added a hate transfer component. This allows it to stack better with the Dirge's hate increase buff.</li></ul><p>This is what I hate about SOE.  I play both an Illusionist and a coercer so you could say enchanters are my favorite class.  SOE reduced our stuns and mezzes by about a third  when they used the excuse that in exchange we would get to mezz epics for 3 seconds.  A bargain which none of us wanted but they rammed it up our derrieres nevertheless.  </p><p>I've been getting my coercer ready to help our guild in raiding but this throws a wrench into all the work I've done.  It might not be worth it anymore if the hate increase on the tank is reduced considerably.  Of course, they don't say by what % they're reducing the hate increase.  You'd think that's a critical piece of information which would give us some idea of what's coming.  Smacks of dishonesty to me.  Typical SOE.</p>

[Savara]

According to the test notes, chronosiphoning casting speed buff will also be reduced by 50% so if you are agi spec you will lose some dps there.  Dps that will be needed to transfer hate to the tank with these changes.

[Savara]

<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=366881" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=366881</a> According to folks on test its a 17% buff and a 17% Hate transfer

[Bawang]

Savara@Guk wrote: <blockquote>http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=366881 According to folks on test its a 17% buff and a 17% Hate transfer </blockquote> Hmm....What is it currently? anybody know?

[Druid03]

<p>Enraging Demeanor M1 is 49% hate gain atm</p><p>glad they nerfed the wis line for my wizzy too <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Roriondesexiest]

<p>I have never seen the M1 version it is a lvl 52 spell that doesn't get upgraded Ad3 is 43%.</p><p>And wow I didn't see they nerf'd chronsiphoning as well so there goes even more dps...</p>

[Soldancer]

Dirge from 41 % down to 36% (-5%) Coercer from 49 % down to 17 % (-32%) Very unequal! Why not a bit juster like Dirge from 41 % down to 23% (-18 %) Coercer from 49 % down to 31 % (-18 %) Anyway coercers could accept this change better if they could cast the hard nerfed aggrobuff (or at least the new hate transfer) raidwide. Coercers are the at least played class, continuously nerfed since LU13, why got they spanked again hardest? (Would also be nice if a dev would post what's the cap for combined aggrobuffs - this "secret" was never lifted)

[Jesdyr]

Rorion@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>The way I understand it hate = dps </blockquote> Yes but Powerdrain generates hate .. stun/stifle/mez/heal/debuff/../.. generate hate. DPS tends to make alot more of it but it isnt ONLY DPS. but yah ... this does make our hate buff much weaker <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Korpo]

<cite>Soldancer wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dirge from 41 % down to 36% (-5%) Coercer from 49 % down to 17 % (-32%) Very unequal! Why not a bit juster like Dirge from 41 % down to 23% (-18 %) Coercer from 49 % down to 31 % (-18 %) Anyway coercers could accept this change better if they could cast the hard nerfed aggrobuff (or at least the new hate transfer) raidwide. Coercers are the at least played class, continuously nerfed since LU13, why got they spanked again hardest? (Would also be nice if a dev would post what's the cap for combined aggrobuffs - this "secret" was never lifted)</blockquote>If not for the fact that we also get a hate transfer, your numbers might be useful. Read everything instead of just the parts you want to hear next time.

[Obsidiann]

Savara@Guk wrote: <blockquote>http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=366881 According to folks on test its a 17% buff and a 17% Hate transfer </blockquote> For the impossible to get M1, yes. The ad3 is 15% hate gain and 14.1% hate transfer. When it gets upgraded in RoK, it better be significant.

[Korpo]

<cite>Obsidiann wrote:</cite><blockquote>Savara@Guk wrote: <blockquote>http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=366881 According to folks on test its a 17% buff and a 17% Hate transfer </blockquote> For the impossible to get M1, yes. The ad3 is 15% hate gain and 14.1% hate transfer. When it gets upgraded in RoK, it better be significant. </blockquote>I have one, I guess it's not so impossible.

[Noaani]

<cite>Obsidiann wrote:</cite><blockquote>When it gets upgraded in RoK, it better be significant. </blockquote><p>Just something I think is worth pointing out here, whether its true or not is a total unknown.</p><p>This spell is currently not upgraded past level 52. It is NOT an Ancient Teachings spell, but rather a regular part of the coercer spell list. Should this change go through as is, this may give a reason for SoE to upgrade it past level 52.</p><p>This would mean that you would then get a level 66 versoin of this spell, and assuming the current trend of replacements every 14 levels, you will get it again at level 80.</p><p>Wonder what this spell will be like after 2 upgrades...</p>