GU36 AA Changes

[Oldlore]

A snippet of the patch for Druid AA changes: <p>Druid</p><ul><li>Starter - Shapeshift: The nature of the shapeshift is no longer determined by weapon; Instead multiple abilities are added for each illusion type.</li><li>Strength 4 - Natural Boon: Increased trigger percentage from 2% to 4% per rank. Reduced group heal effect by 30%.</li><li>Strength 5 - Primordial Strike: Increased damage, and it cannot be parried, riposted, deflected, or blocked.</li><li>Agility 4 - Wild Regeneration: Additionally increases the initial tick of each regeneration by 3%.</li><li>Agility 5 - Tortoise Shell: Stifles/Roots Druid instead of stuns, and doubles shield effectiveness. Also increases health regeneration of nearby allies. Removed power cost.</li><li>Stamina 3 - Serene Knowledge: Increased triggered percentage from 1% to 2% per rank. Added interrupt immunity.</li><li>Stamina 5 - Serenity: Removed power cost. Added interrupt immunity.</li><li>Wisdom 4 - Hierophant Obfuscation: Instead of hate reduction, it reduces the chance that any hostile spell lands on the Hierophant by 1.5% per rank.</li><li>Wisdom 5 - Rebirth: After death, the buff can be cancelled before the auto-resurrection occurs if desired.</li><li>Intelligence 4 - Stormvision: Also increases ordination skill.</li><li>Intelligence 5 - Infusion: Slightly increased damage.</li></ul>

[xandez]

<cite>Oldlore wrote:</cite><blockquote>A snippet of the patch for Druid AA changes: <p>Druid</p><ul><li>Starter - Shapeshift: The nature of the shapeshift is no longer determined by weapon; Instead multiple abilities are added for each illusion type.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">too bad, DPS will prolly lower on melee wardens due to this... if you wielded a sword earlier and used shapeshift, you got the tiger form procs when using 2h blunts etc... but now its maybe "fixed" <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span> <ul><li>Strength 4 - Natural Boon: Increased trigger percentage from 2% to 4% per rank. Reduced group heal effect by 30%.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">Hmm... seems like a small upgrade... so ok.</span> <ul><li>Strength 5 - Primordial Strike: Increased damage, and it cannot be parried, riposted, deflected, or blocked.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">This is good, the last ability was kinda disappointing where it is now.</span> <ul><li>Agility 4 - Wild Regeneration: Additionally increases the initial tick of each regeneration by 3%.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">cant comment on this one, since i've never even tested this... imo if it affects 2 spells, then... its not ok. </span> <ul><li>Agility 5 - Tortoise Shell: Stifles/Roots Druid instead of stuns, and doubles shield effectiveness. Also increases health regeneration of nearby allies. Removed power cost.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">never used this either... however, seems like a worthwile upgrade</span> <ul><li>Stamina 3 - Serene Knowledge: Increased triggered percentage from 1% to 2% per rank. Added interrupt immunity.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">hmm... what is beneficial spell? all out heals, which are not counted as heals in item proccing but are not counted as regens either? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> well, this definitely needed something...</span> <ul><li>Stamina 5 - Serenity: Removed power cost. Added interrupt immunity.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">Never used... could be a must in raids / PvP / some certain encounters</span> <ul><li>Wisdom 4 - Hierophant Obfuscation: Instead of hate reduction, it reduces the chance that any hostile spell lands on the Hierophant by 1.5% per rank.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">Mm... deaggro = working always, what about meleeing enemies... they dont spell you <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span> <ul><li>Wisdom 5 - Rebirth: After death, the buff can be cancelled before the auto-resurrection occurs if desired.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">Nice change</span> <ul><li>Intelligence 4 - Stormvision: Also increases ordination skill.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">Same here, good.</span> <ul><li>Intelligence 5 - Infusion: Slightly increased damage.</li></ul><span style="color: #ff9900">And this is not too shabby either <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> All the AA changes (for every class i've checked so far) are quite small, some tuning up and some down a tad. I liked how the things were with weapon restrictions etc (to certain point, the buckler "musthave" for warriors was kinda st00pid). But hopefully these turn out to be upgrades (overall) than nerfs (which some classes seem, or some ppl state, to get) </span> <span style="color: #ff9900">++Xan</span> </blockquote>

[T'Pol]

Regarding the starter shapeshift ability we now have those buffs in our knowledge book. Treant,Winter Wolf and Tiger. So can now choose which to cast without any weapon requirement. I could take a screenshot if you like.

[Gwen]

Lemon@Innovation wrote: <blockquote>So can now choose which to cast without any weapon requirement. I could take a screenshot if you like. </blockquote>Now question is ... are the effects the same as before?

[T'Pol]

As far as i can tell yes.  I´ll check as soon as i am on my live warden.

[Dragonreal]

The wild regen change is definately good imo.. nothing but improvement there. The Hiero obfuscation change is also good imo.. I've honestly never had a fight where I had to worry about my aggro unless there was a mem-wipe, in which case decreased aggro gain would do no good anyway. That change will make the wis line have SOMETHING wortwhile for raids, though I feel kinda slighted when considering the fact that shammys will now have the same thing except theirs is for the entire grp (though idk what scale theirs will be to). Personally I think the int line change to add ordination skill is pointless.. ordination is typically associated with debuffs and we have none; our roots should be subjugation, though I haven't checked in awhile. And serene knowledge change is VERY good.. that thing was near-useless with its small proc chance and short duration.. it's nice to see the trigger chance increased and yes, it procs perfectly fine off of all our beneficial spells (ie: heals, cures, and buffs)

[Oakum]

<p>Wish my warden was level 70 on test, wonder if they would copy my befallen warden to test. I would delete my baby warden first though. </p><p>What I want to know is the overall change to the str line boon and the final attack is before and after with same gear and aa's. Guess I will have to wait for the next LU, lol. </p>

[Elvalien]

<cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Wish my warden was level 70 on test, wonder if they would copy my befallen warden to test. I would delete my baby warden first though. </p><p>What I want to know is the overall change to the str line boon and the final attack is before and after with same gear and aa's. Guess I will have to wait for the next LU, lol. </p></blockquote> I'll be on the pvp test server with my warden tonight.  I'll let you know what the differences are.  On paper, I like the increased trigger on Natural Boon.  It looks like it'll be 32% to group heal somewhere around 300.

[Skivley101]

<p>As far as shapeshift ability .... were you saying they will be in the spell book instead of ability book? With the way it used to work seems like no real change here except to fill up our knowledge book , Ill always still have the weapon switching hotbar buttons for my playstyle.... *shrug*</p><p>The rest of the stuff sounds pretty good ....especially that Tortise shell change... am i correct in reading that we will still be able to mele & proc heal while giving our group AOE immunity?  And is a CA useable while being stifeld?</p>

[Gilfandron]

Don't know about the CAs as I have not chosen that line. But surely you can use your manastone, hearts and shards, activatabe gear etc. Hope that helps...

[Fromingo]

<p>I love the shapeshifting change!   Now I can just pick whatever specialty I want without the musical weapons.   If I want to DPS then Tiger,  Heal-Tree and since I am a melee warden the only time I'll pull out the wolf form is to impress the ladies with my refreshingly chilled silky white fur...</p><p>Change to boon rocks too, I'd rather see more heals land for less then a few greater heals.  More likely to do some good when grouped with a shaman's wards. </p><p>Primordial Strike boost to damage?  I might actually spend AA on it now!</p>

[Taea]

I checked my warden on test this morning. The Tortoise shell AE prevention has been changed, so we aren't stunned anymore, however the ENTIRE GROUP is now rooted while it's on. Yeah, not just the caster, but the whole group. That will make a couple raid guilds a little irritated, I would think. The Shapeshift change is awesome. I didn't check to see how long the cast time is on the buffs, but I imagine it's rather long. I doubt I'll have much chance to try and macro those in.

[MysidiaDrakkenbane]

<p>Natural Boon is still nerfed, though. So now what are the Melee wardens supposed to do? All that work you guys put into becoming a Melee warden is starting to become negated. </p><p>They are reducing the hate in hopes to add difficulty to raiding and they are really going about it the wrong way.</p><p>I've said this before - unless you're giving us LOVE, Devs, LEAVE US BE. This isn't balance. </p>

[Taea]

Slightly more chance to proc Boon, so maybe it's supposed to balance out?

[Arielle Nightshade]

<p>This is irritating..LOL. </p><p>I'd really love to hear a meeting that discusses stuff like this.   How do they come up with some of it?  Based on what feedback?  I think it's the dartboard method, myself.  </p><p>I agree, with Mysdia.  If you aren't going to give us something cool..leave us the hell alone.  This isn't balance, it's silly.   Also annoying:  there is a thread like this in just about every priest category.  Interesting.   It generates feedback, ie: someone wants to know what we are saying....then what?  What we say is ignored completely.   </p><p>That's even more irritating, IMO.</p>

[Sorano]

I would /bug Tortoiseshell. Sounds like it's bugged. The change is meant to stifle/root the caster, not the group.

[Skivley101]

<p>Hmmm ....root the group ..... I see good and bad from this .... definately have to macro it (Maybe with an asking permission then Ok im doin it now)....I guess it makes sense for what its suppose to do.... But will people outside its range still get rooted???</p><p>Just so i can understand this part though .....</p><p>Stifle =means to keep you from speaking spell casting incantations .....???</p><p>Stun  =means to make you unable to move & speak spell casting incantations ...???</p><p>Root  =means to keep your feet in place But you can still wave your arms around and speak...???</p><p>Activateable items like the mana stone could always be used even when stunned with Heiro.  Not sure about Hostile stuns though.</p>

[Mareth]

<cite>MysidiaDrakkenbane wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Natural Boon is still nerfed, though. So now what are the Melee wardens supposed to do? All that work you guys put into becoming a Melee warden is starting to become negated.</p></blockquote>Strength 4 - Natural Boon: Increased trigger percentage from 2% to 4% per rank. Reduced group heal effect by 30%. I'm not seeing the nerf here. 30% less damage, yes, but will proc twice as much. Makes it more reliable too.

[Tricit2]

<p>Natural Boon received a 40% increase in overall average healing amount. How is that bad? It's a significant boost to melee wardens.</p><p>1 is equal to the amount that Natural Boon used to heal.</p><p>.7 is the multiplier based on healing reduction. -30% = 70% remaining = multiply Natural Boon variable by .7</p><p>It now procs twice as much, so multiply that number by 2.</p><p>1*.7*2=1.4</p><p>1.4 is 40% more than 1 o_o k?</p>

[Skivley101]

<p>Mareth wrote:</p><p>Natural Boon is still nerfed, though. So now what are the Melee wardens supposed to do? All that work you guys put into becoming a Melee warden is starting to become negated.</p><p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________ ____</p><p>Lol ... sounds like you didnt actually try the mele option ... work???</p><p>The work is adjusting your playstyle maybe ... &  collecting str gear ...</p><p>Either way your not out that much ... just use waht comes available & remember to play nice ... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The buffs that are possible to recieve from others is Astronomical to your dmg output ... str is not the only factor to ones dps for the mele warden ... but I imagine most dps classes say the same thing ?</p><p>When the chips are down and the necro is whineing ..."whos gona save me?" .... Its the Warden that awnsers most of those plea's for help that makes or breaks the situation.... imo ....<img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[xandez]

any wardens on test that can confirm is the crit rate still 75% or 60% (like someone said in some other thread) ++Xan

[Skivley101]

<p>What !?!?!?!</p><p>75% to 60% crit rate reduction ???</p><p>If they did that they better have seriously looked at the other issues surrounding wardens</p><p>Like why dont we have the forest of terror spell yet?  <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gwen]

<cite>Taea wrote:</cite><blockquote>I checked my warden on test this morning. The Tortoise shell AE prevention has been changed, so we aren't stunned anymore, however the ENTIRE GROUP is now rooted while it's on. Yeah, not just the caster, but the whole group. That will make a couple raid guilds a little irritated, I would think. </blockquote>Now, my question is ... 'Is Nature Walk preventing the group from being rooted ?' If yes, im fine with new version of Tortoise Shell ... And i know the reduced the %crit melee of Clerics, so, they have probably reduced Wardens's %crit melee too ...

[Mareth]

<cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mareth wrote:</p><p>Natural Boon is still nerfed, though. So now what are the Melee wardens supposed to do? All that work you guys put into becoming a Melee warden is starting to become negated.</p><p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________ ____</p><p>Lol ... sounds like you didnt actually try the mele option ... work???</p><p>The work is adjusting your playstyle maybe ... &  collecting str gear ...</p><p>Either way your not out that much ... just use waht comes available & remember to play nice ... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The buffs that are possible to recieve from others is Astronomical to your dmg output ... str is not the only factor to ones dps for the mele warden ... but I imagine most dps classes say the same thing ?</p><p>When the chips are down and the necro is whineing ..."whos gona save me?" .... Its the Warden that awnsers most of those plea's for help that makes or breaks the situation.... imo ....<img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>You failed at quoting me.

[Skivley101]

<p>Gwen wrote: </p><p>Now, my question is ... 'Is Nature Walk preventing the group from being rooted ?' __________________________________________________ _________________________</p><p>I would guess not ....there seems to be a defineing line between hostile and beneficial effects like stun as a side product of a beneficial effect vs a hostile inflicted one ... for Nature Walk to work as is actually defined would upset the balance the Dev's intended ... it would be a loop hole like so many others that they have tried so hard to eliminate from this game. .....imho</p>

[Skivley101]

<cite>Mareth wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Mareth wrote:</p><p>Natural Boon is still nerfed, though. So now what are the Melee wardens supposed to do? All that work you guys put into becoming a Melee warden is starting to become negated.</p><p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________ ____</p><p>Lol ... sounds like you didnt actually try the mele option ... work???</p><p>The work is adjusting your playstyle maybe ... &  collecting str gear ...</p><p>Either way your not out that much ... just use waht comes available & remember to play nice ... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The buffs that are possible to recieve from others is Astronomical to your dmg output ... str is not the only factor to ones dps for the mele warden ... but I imagine most dps classes say the same thing ?</p><p>When the chips are down and the necro is whineing ..."whos gona save me?" .... Its the Warden that awnsers most of those plea's for help that makes or breaks the situation.... imo ....<img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></blockquote>You failed at quoting me. </blockquote><p>Huh? not sure what you mean now....or maybe i never did?</p>

[Skivley101]

<p>LOL i am sorry Mareth ... Yes i F'ed up Quoteing a Quoter</p><p>Actually rereading made my mistake apparent</p>

[Mareth]

All good <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Taea]

Dear gods, yes, melee crit AA reduced to 60%. [Removed for Content]??? If they're messing with EOF AA tree, they better give a full reset to all 100 points. But in any case, what does a crit amount mean? If I normally hit for 150, what would the crit hit be? At least we're still hitting the mob the same number of times, still getting our boon proc just as much... Sigh. Just give us the Fury Int and Haste buffs and go back to nerfing Pallys <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dragonreal]

Think crits are supposed to be 30% higher than what the non-crit hit would be, and I'd really like to know why we're getting nerfed in our EOF tree when this was supposed to be about the kos tree...? god forbid both druid classes are able to outdps clrs and shammys like they're supposed to...

[Taea]

Exactly, Dragon. In any case, melee crit is still the most useful end ability there. Even with the nerf, I'm not changing it.

[KaroX]

<p>Ok so now it's possible for:</p><p>Warden 60% melee crit</p><p>Fury 0% melee crit</p><p>Cleric 80% melee crit</p><p>Shaman 80% melee crit</p><p>Doesn't really seem fair to me, especially considering Inquiz can now also get double attack and their melee moves cost reduced by 25%</p>

[Dragonreal]

<cite>Taea wrote:</cite><blockquote>Exactly, Dragon. In any case, melee crit is still the most useful end ability there. Even with the nerf, I'm not changing it. </blockquote>Yeah.. that's what really bothers me about this change... there's still nothing else really worth picking up so we just got a straight nerf and it's in a place that wasn't touched at all for other classes and to a class that has been in need of BUFFING for quite some time now =/

[Oakum]

<cite>KaroX wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok so now it's possible for:</p><p>Warden 60% melee crit</p><p>Fury 0% melee crit</p><p>Cleric 80% melee crit</p><p>Shaman 80% melee crit</p><p>Doesn't really seem fair to me, especially considering Inquiz can now also get double attack and their melee moves cost reduced by 25%</p></blockquote>If you are listing fury it should be there nuke crit potentional since that is the way they dps. A fury doesn't melee for dps unless its waiting for their nukes to recycle.

[Avanya]

<p>I am completely befuddled.   A stealth nerf to the EoF warden tree, a questionable nerf to the druid melee tree (which is mostly used by wardens, not furies) and an INCREASE to spell dmg (normally used by furies).  Am I missing something here?  I played a 70 fury until I recently betrayed to a warden.  It seems to me like Sony is saying that wardens need to be nerfed and furies need to be buffed?  Has anyone at Sony played both classes??  If anything it is furies that are over powered....this coming from someone who played one.  All I heard for months on the board and in guild chat was that furies would be nerfed eventually.</p><p>All furies told me for months was that fury buffs and heals were just as good as a warden's.  That in fact, fury buffs are better.  So, if furies are so equal to us in healing, why should they be able to do the pure damage they do?  I don't usually pick on other classes, but I am really frustrated and disappointed with the message Sony seems to be giving out with these changes.  Furies are thrilled with the new changes.... of course they are, all they recieved was love.  And we get shafted?  Someone explain this to me plz.</p>

[Isard]

Arani@Crushbone wrote: <blockquote><p>All furies told me for months was that fury buffs and heals were just as good as a warden's.  That in fact, fury buffs are better.  So, if furies are so equal to us in healing, why should they be able to do the pure damage they do?  I don't usually pick on other classes, but I am really frustrated and disappointed with the message Sony seems to be giving out with these changes.  Furies are thrilled with the new changes.... of course they are, all they recieved was love.  And we get shafted?  <b>Someone explain this to me plz.</b></p></blockquote> It's because SOE hates us.  Okay, maybe not hate but certianly ignore us.  The last response from a dev about Warden issues in the Warden forum was when Tranquility got messed up with the last update.  Before that it was OVER A YEAR since any dev posted in this forum.  I'm pretty sure no dev plays a Warden and if they do its low level because the changes they make sure as hell don't seem to make sense to us.  I think I'll just go play with my Dirge from now on or until someone there gets a clue.

[Arielle Nightshade]

<p>Ancient Game history will show that Furies were in horrible shape until the Combat Revamp (LU30?  how could I forget the number, yet it seems I have).   That was when they were brought a bit into their own and 'fixed' so they could once again be functional.   It was at that point that many people who now have Furies rolled one - because before that, only a few stalwart, hearty folks stuck with it ...the class was so bad.</p><p>That was the same update that made us virtually unplayable for many months while the Devs decided [Removed for Content] they were going to do.   We were brought back into 'playable' eventually, but it took way too long for it to happen.  (I was able to level a Templar to 50 before Warden was even remotely fun again..if that tells you HOW long.  And I'm not particularly a power leveler).</p><p>I am not sure what decisions go into 'balance' or the attempt at it in this game.  Any and all changes take forever, it seems, except the ones that most players view as class ruining.  Those are instant and usually irrevocable.   After any changes are made, there also seem to be pages and pages of complaint - with absolute echoing Dev silence on the matter.   If even one post is made in favor of the changes..within pages and pages of complaint, it does appear that is the one the Devs see and for which they pat themselves on the back.</p><p>I have recently been away from EQ2 playing (seriously) WoW.  I am about to let my subscription here go in favor of a game with awesome customer service, incredible content and outstanding class balance.   What that game doesn't have is the community this one has.   </p><p>This community is the one the Devs ignore with some of the worst customer service I have ever seen in my history as a consumer.    I'll be sorry when this billing period runs out, but I'm not going to pay for two games - one I am not playing..primarily because of reasons like these.</p>

[Kyralis]

This is starting to annoy me enough to get me to swing back into campaigning gear again. Can one of the melee-spec'd wardens out there get me the raw numbers for the damage of the melee CAs at ~300 str (include the ones in the druid trees), please? I'd like to run some numbers.

[Dragonreal]

I'll do that in a bit for ya, np Something I noticed on the warden I just dinged 10 with, is the AE avoid now increases our group memeber's shield effectiveness by 100% along with the other stuff.. didn't recall seeing anyone mention that but it sounded kinda nice to me; mebbe give us some kind of mt grp utility?

[Dragonreal]

str: 300 All abilities maxed out unless otherwise stated Tiger form proc: 172-287 Nature Blade (rank 5) and Primordial Strike: 257-429 (I can get rank 8 nature blade with a respec if you want... not like I need to worry about my AAs atm since ry can't raid for the time being heh) Whirl of Frost: 866 - 1058 Fire Strike: 544-665 Cold Strike: 742-907 Don't have cold slice since I prefer the spell version, but again if you want numbers on that I have no probs with respeccing to find out, as well as picking up the two other melee attacks in the other lines if you wanna be THAT thorough about it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[juz]

<cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hmmm ....root the group ..... I see good and bad from this .... definately have to macro it (Maybe with an asking permission then Ok im doin it now)....I guess it makes sense for what its suppose to do.... But will people outside its range still get rooted???</p><p>Just so i can understand this part though .....</p><p>Stifle =means to keep you from speaking spell casting incantations .....???</p><p>Stun  =means to make you unable to move & speak spell casting incantations ...???</p><p>Root  =means to keep your feet in place But you can still wave your arms around and speak...???</p><p>Activateable items like the mana stone could always be used even when stunned with Heiro.  Not sure about Hostile stuns though.</p></blockquote><p> Stifle: Can't cast.</p><p>Root: Can't run/walk.</p><p>Daze: Can't attack.</p><p>Stun: Can't do anything.</p><p>So the change to Tortoise Shell will let you auto attack now.</p>

[juz]

<cite>Taea wrote:</cite><blockquote>Dear gods, yes, melee crit AA reduced to 60%. [I cannot control my vocabulary]??? If they're messing with EOF AA tree, they better give a full reset to all 100 points. But in any case, what does a crit amount mean? If I normally hit for 150, what would the crit hit be? At least we're still hitting the mob the same number of times, still getting our boon proc just as much... Sigh. Just give us the Fury Int and Haste buffs and go back to nerfing Pallys <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p> Taea, Crit % is the chance you have to do a melee/CA critical hit. It  doesn't affects the damage per se.</p><p>Lets say your auto attack damage is from 100 to 200 damage. A critical hit will do 100 to 200 + 30%. If that sum is lower than 201  it will raise the damage to 201. Examples:</p><p>You hit for 100 damage, plus 30% thats 130 damage, so it will raise it to 201.</p><p>You hit for 150 damage, plus 30% thats 195 damage, so it will raise it to 201.</p><p>You hit for 175 damage, plus 30% thats 227 damage.</p><p>So if you normally hit from 100 to 200 then a crit hit will do from 201 to 260.</p>

[Tallo]

Arielle Nightshade wrote: <blockquote>I have recently been away from EQ2 playing (seriously) WoW.  I am about to let my subscription here go in favor of a game with awesome customer service, incredible content and outstanding class balance.   What that game doesn't have is the community this one has.   <p>This community is the one the Devs ignore with some of the worst customer service I have ever seen in my history as a consumer.    I'll be sorry when this billing period runs out, but I'm not going to pay for two games - one I am not playing..primarily because of reasons like these.</p></blockquote>I'm going to derail this for just a moment. I know your a venerated poster here, but please don't mislead people with very incorrect statements about other games, I'm assuming your referring to World of Warcraft. Please vist <a href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com</a> and browse through the various class forums there for a bit if you want to see imbalance and general suffering. Coming to this game recently from WoW, I can say that this game's dev's, class modifications, and general user happiness level is significantly higher than in world of warcraft, at least that's my opinion. from reading through the first page or so of posts for the warden, wizard, illusionist, inquisitor, and fury class forums. Those were the classes I've tried so far. I have a level 70 Priest, Mage, and Warlock, or rather, did, in wow, and have been through most of the endgame content in that game up to magtheridon in the current expansion. WoW is a great game in many ways, but EQ2 is vastly superior for thousands of reasons. People proclaim it every day in game, and I'm sure many of you know the reasons. I don't want to sit and burn up the forums here, but I just wanted to make sure and offer my own opinion on your view. If you are referring to another game, besides wow, than none of the above applies. Be cool.

[Owlbe]

The crit reduction to 60% is a bug and being put back to 75% btw <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367065" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=367065</a>

[Dragonreal]

very good news indeed.. now let's just hope it's not just gonna be a change that's supposed to go in at some later date unless they revamp our entire set of eof AAs for the better.. =x

[mellowknees72]

<cite>Oakum wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>KaroX wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Ok so now it's possible for:</p><p>Warden 60% melee crit</p><p>Fury 0% melee crit</p><p>Cleric 80% melee crit</p><p>Shaman 80% melee crit</p><p>Doesn't really seem fair to me, especially considering Inquiz can now also get double attack and their melee moves cost reduced by 25%</p></blockquote><b>If you are listing fury it should be there nuke crit potentional since that is the way they dps. A fury doesn't melee for dps unless its waiting for their nukes to recycle. </b></blockquote>I call shennanigans on that one right there.  My fury melees all the time.  I don't ever *just* nuke.  I've had 2 furies up into the 60s now, and both of them melee as much as possible.  Now, sure, that's not how I get *most* of my dps, but it's certainly a large part of it - especially when you consider spells like the Fae Flames line (proc on successful melee hit), Tiger Bite (which wardens can get, too, if they use a sword), and the INT line of AA.

[mellowknees72]

<cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Hmmm ....root the group ..... I see good and bad from this .... definately have to macro it (Maybe with an asking permission then Ok im doin it now)....I guess it makes sense for what its suppose to do.... But will people outside its range still get rooted???</p><p>Just so i can understand this part though .....</p><p>Stifle =means to keep you from speaking spell casting incantations .....???</p><p>Stun  =means to make you unable to move & speak spell casting incantations ...???</p><p>Root  =means to keep your feet in place But you can still wave your arms around and speak...???</p><p>Activateable items like the mana stone could always be used even when stunned with Heiro.  Not sure about Hostile stuns though.</p></blockquote>I think the main differences between stifle and stun are that there are abilities you can still use while stifled.  Also, I think you can still melee while stifled, but not cast spells; however, when stunned you cannot do either...?

[Arielle Nightshade]

<cite>FingerStyleFunk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Arielle Nightshade wrote: <blockquote>I have recently been away from EQ2 playing (seriously) WoW.  I am about to let my subscription here go in favor of a game with awesome customer service, incredible content and outstanding class balance.   What that game doesn't have is the community this one has.   <p>This community is the one the Devs ignore with some of the worst customer service I have ever seen in my history as a consumer.    I'll be sorry when this billing period runs out, but I'm not going to pay for two games - one I am not playing..primarily because of reasons like these.</p></blockquote>I'm going to derail this for just a moment. I know your a venerated poster here, but please don't mislead people with very incorrect statements about other games, I'm assuming your referring to World of Warcraft. Please vist <a href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com</a> and browse through the various class forums there for a bit if you want to see imbalance and general suffering. Coming to this game recently from WoW, I can say that this game's dev's, class modifications, and general user happiness level is significantly higher than in world of warcraft, at least that's my opinion. from reading through the first page or so of posts for the warden, wizard, illusionist, inquisitor, and fury class forums. Those were the classes I've tried so far. I have a level 70 Priest, Mage, and Warlock, or rather, did, in wow, and have been through most of the endgame content in that game up to magtheridon in the current expansion. WoW is a great game in many ways, but EQ2 is vastly superior for thousands of reasons. People proclaim it every day in game, and I'm sure many of you know the reasons. I don't want to sit and burn up the forums here, but I just wanted to make sure and offer my own opinion on your view. If you are referring to another game, besides wow, than none of the above applies. Be cool. </blockquote><p>Fair enough.   I should have added "In My Opinion"....which it clearly is.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />     I don't read or post on WoW's forums, so I am only stating from my experience being there the short time I have been..both PvP and PvE.    I'm enjoying it, and didn't think I would ever try it based on posts I've read here, on these forums.  So...In My Opinion <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Thanks for keeping me honest <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Taea]

<cite>Owlbear wrote:</cite><blockquote>The crit reduction to 60% is a bug and being put back to 75% btw <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=367065" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=367065</a> </blockquote>Thanks, Owlbear! I'm glad it's being fixed. This doesn't change the fact that I stil have STR of like 2 or something, so I still suck.

[Rastaah]

Arielle Nightshade wrote: <blockquote><cite>FingerStyleFunk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Arielle Nightshade wrote: <blockquote>I have recently been away from EQ2 playing (seriously) WoW.  I am about to let my subscription here go in favor of a game with awesome customer service, incredible content and outstanding class balance.   What that game doesn't have is the community this one has.   <p>This community is the one the Devs ignore with some of the worst customer service I have ever seen in my history as a consumer.    I'll be sorry when this billing period runs out, but I'm not going to pay for two games - one I am not playing..primarily because of reasons like these.</p></blockquote>I'm going to derail this for just a moment. I know your a venerated poster here, but please don't mislead people with very incorrect statements about other games, I'm assuming your referring to World of Warcraft. Please vist <a href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com</a> and browse through the various class forums there for a bit if you want to see imbalance and general suffering. Coming to this game recently from WoW, I can say that this game's dev's, class modifications, and general user happiness level is significantly higher than in world of warcraft, at least that's my opinion. from reading through the first page or so of posts for the warden, wizard, illusionist, inquisitor, and fury class forums. Those were the classes I've tried so far. I have a level 70 Priest, Mage, and Warlock, or rather, did, in wow, and have been through most of the endgame content in that game up to magtheridon in the current expansion. WoW is a great game in many ways, but EQ2 is vastly superior for thousands of reasons. People proclaim it every day in game, and I'm sure many of you know the reasons. I don't want to sit and burn up the forums here, but I just wanted to make sure and offer my own opinion on your view. If you are referring to another game, besides wow, than none of the above applies. Be cool. </blockquote><p>Fair enough.   I should have added "In My Opinion"....which it clearly is.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />     I don't read or post on WoW's forums, so I am only stating from my experience being there the short time I have been..both PvP and PvE.    I'm enjoying it, and didn't think I would ever try it based on posts I've read here, on these forums.  So...In My Opinion <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Thanks for keeping me honest <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote><p>Well its all relative to how long you stay in the particular game.  I was in WOW from closed beta then 2.5 years or so (before I came here) To me they care more here, but that only became true when I got sick of WOW.   I did at one time get sick of EQ2 too and went to Vanguard (Where I saw Arielle ::waves hi hi:: ) and then back to WOW (and just hurt my eyes too much <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )  .   I think its just relative to where you are at in each game.    It gets frustrating after a while to see things changed despite protests etc. </p>

[Skivley101]

<cite>Dragonrealms wrote:</cite><blockquote>str: 300 All abilities maxed out unless otherwise stated Tiger form proc: 172-287 Nature Blade (rank 5) and Primordial Strike: 257-429 (I can get rank 8 nature blade with a respec if you want... not like I need to worry about my AAs atm since ry can't raid for the time being heh) Whirl of Frost: 866 - 1058 Fire Strike: 544-665 Cold Strike: 742-907 Don't have cold slice since I prefer the spell version, but again if you want numbers on that I have no probs with respeccing to find out, as well as picking up the two other melee attacks in the other lines if you wanna be THAT thorough about it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><p>The Cold Slice at 300 str does 346-423 mele dmg upfront ..... The dot cold dmg is effected by the int though , is slightly more dmg per tick than the spell version with same int, But i imagine its doing the same overall dmg ?.... The debuff is always 840 at rank 5 lvl 70.</p><p>One thing youll notice if you track the dmg increase per str pt at various str amounts ... you will see differences per CA.</p><p>From 200 to 300 Str divideing the difference in top end dmg by 100</p><p>Fire strike          = .49</p><p>cold strike         = .67</p><p>whirl of frost     = .74</p><p>cold slice           = .31</p><p>natures blade   = .38</p><p>I had an old chart about it but lost it some where ...this was some info i was able to salvage from some scriblings i found .... so those actual #'s might be wrong.... but theyer in the neighborhood.</p><p>The way i seem to remember it was as str increased and dmg per str point decreased they all had a pretty similar curve just different starting points ... And as far as how much str = double the dmg output per CA ...I think its around from 20-650 str At rank 5 lvl 70 ... dont quote me just guessing ....(trying to give Taea some good news  LOL) </p>

[Arteen]

<p>I went and tested a couple things (I was specifically concerned with tortoise shell) on the pvp test server.  They did increase the distance slightly, and add a graphical effect I hadn't seen before.  The range isn't much better then before (3 meters) but it's better then having the group stacked on one spot.  With the warden achievement Nature walk doesn't negate the root effect.  It is possible for individual group members to cancel the shell and thus move.  I took this achievement a long time ago, mainly because no one else had it and it is useful in certain situations.  Here's my problem though...The ability to block ae's isn't unique to us...what is unique is that it takes 20+ achievements to get it and in comparison to other ae blockers, it's worthless.  Other classes (not naming classes) get ae blockers that hav a range of 25 meters, don't root the group, and don't cost 20+ achievements to get it.  I really wouldn't even mind the cost of the achievement if it was just a little more useful, give us some range on it.  I didn't even mind being stunned before (stifle + root is a bit better though).  All I was hoping for was an increase in the range, but 3 meters?  that's still a bit on the small side.  Heck, I'd be happy with 10-15 meters.</p><p> /rant off</p><p>On the topic of dps for us vs furys.  I have yet to really try the melee warden build and it's something I plan to try it on test.  I also plan to build a fury on test and compare dps parses.  I'll post my compares here after I'm done.</p>

[Tallo]

Arielle Nightshade wrote: <blockquote><cite>FingerStyleFunk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Arielle Nightshade wrote: <blockquote>I have recently been away from EQ2 playing (seriously) WoW.  I am about to let my subscription here go in favor of a game with awesome customer service, incredible content and outstanding class balance.   What that game doesn't have is the community this one has.   <p>This community is the one the Devs ignore with some of the worst customer service I have ever seen in my history as a consumer.    I'll be sorry when this billing period runs out, but I'm not going to pay for two games - one I am not playing..primarily because of reasons like these.</p></blockquote>I'm going to derail this for just a moment. I know your a venerated poster here, but please don't mislead people with very incorrect statements about other games, I'm assuming your referring to World of Warcraft. Please vist <a href="http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com</a> and browse through the various class forums there for a bit if you want to see imbalance and general suffering. Coming to this game recently from WoW, I can say that this game's dev's, class modifications, and general user happiness level is significantly higher than in world of warcraft, at least that's my opinion. from reading through the first page or so of posts for the warden, wizard, illusionist, inquisitor, and fury class forums. Those were the classes I've tried so far. I have a level 70 Priest, Mage, and Warlock, or rather, did, in wow, and have been through most of the endgame content in that game up to magtheridon in the current expansion. WoW is a great game in many ways, but EQ2 is vastly superior for thousands of reasons. People proclaim it every day in game, and I'm sure many of you know the reasons. I don't want to sit and burn up the forums here, but I just wanted to make sure and offer my own opinion on your view. If you are referring to another game, besides wow, than none of the above applies. Be cool. </blockquote><p>Fair enough.   I should have added "In My Opinion"....which it clearly is.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />     I don't read or post on WoW's forums, so I am only stating from my experience being there the short time I have been..both PvP and PvE.    I'm enjoying it, and didn't think I would ever try it based on posts I've read here, on these forums.  So...In My Opinion <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Thanks for keeping me honest <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p></blockquote>Np, thanks for being so cordial. The post right after yours is very true though, I probably don't know about nearly any of the problems with this game, as I'm completely inexperienced to it as well, so time will tell.

[Skivley101]

<cite>Arteen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I went and tested a couple things (I was specifically concerned with tortoise shell) on the pvp test server.  They did increase the distance slightly, and add a graphical effect I hadn't seen before.  The range isn't much better then before (3 meters) </p><p> <span style="color: #00cc00">Its always been 3 meters ,,, whats your graphical settings to see the effect ?</span> but it's better then having the group stacked on one spot.  With the warden achievement Nature walk doesn't negate the root effect.  It is possible for individual group members to cancel the shell and thus move.   <span style="color: #00cc00">--->>> </span><img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>  I took this achievement a long time ago, mainly because no one else had it and it is useful in certain situations.  Here's my problem though...The ability to block ae's isn't unique to us...what is unique is that it takes 20+ achievements to get it and in comparison to other ae blockers, it's worthless...  <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00">Not worthless when considerd it can be used back to back with the other classes abilities .</span></p><p>ther classes (not naming classes) get ae blockers that hav a range of 25 meters, don't root the group, and don't cost 20+ achievements to get it.  I really wouldn't even mind the cost of the achievement if it was just a little more useful, give us some range on it.  I didn't even mind being stunned before (stifle + root is a bit better though).   <span style="color: #00cc00">--->>> Do you find the rest of the line any use at all ?</span></p><p>  All I was hoping for was an increase in the range, but 3 meters?  that's still a bit on the small side.  Heck, I'd be happy with 10-15 meters.</p><p> /rant off   <span style="color: #009900">hmm ... they did just give us the ability to mele/proc heal  while  protecting our group from AoE </span></p><p>On the topic of dps for us vs furys.  I have yet to really try the melee warden build and it's something I plan to try it on test.  I also plan to build a fury on test and compare dps parses.  I'll post my compares here after I'm done.</p></blockquote>

[Dragonreal]

<cite>Taea wrote:</cite><blockquote>I checked my warden on test this morning. The Tortoise shell AE prevention has been changed, so we aren't stunned anymore, however the ENTIRE GROUP is now rooted while it's on. Yeah, not just the caster, but the whole group. That will make a couple raid guilds a little irritated, I would think. </blockquote> Just an update on this since I haven't seen mention of it yet: Tortoise shell on test now says (in the effects as well and not just in the description as it originally said) it roots and stifles the caster only and not the group.

[Fromingo]

I'd rather it not stifle the caster at all.  An AE avoidance ability for wardens is just what they need to make them more desirable at raids.   

[Dragonreal]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd rather it not stifle the caster at all.  An AE avoidance ability for wardens is just what they need to make them more desirable at raids.    </blockquote>Because stun is just so much better than stifle? The stifle is an improvement and the root portion is just an annoyance for us, but there's really nothing different about the ability on test now than there is from what it is on live except now if we're str-specced we can melee with it up and proc heals versus just standing there doing nothing at all for however long we have it up. This ability has seen nothing but improvement over what it currently is (even if you're not str-specced you still gain new utility from it due to the new buffs that were added to it), so why complain about it now that it's not a hindrance to anyone but us (and even then I feel the root is only a slight hindrance)? Even if all they did was convert the stun into a stifle/root, I would be thrilled with it.. adding the extra buffing capability to it just makes it into something I actually want to have rather than something I feel I NEED to have for raiding.

[physht]

<cite>Oldlore wrote:</cite><blockquote>A snippet of the patch for Druid AA changes: <p>Druid</p><ul><li>Wisdom 4 - Hierophant Obfuscation: Instead of hate reduction, it reduces the chance that any hostile spell lands on the Hierophant by 1.5% per rank.</li></ul> </blockquote><p> Does this ability give the chance to evade all AE and hostile Spell? How many does % become in the maximum? </p>

[Dragonreal]

will be a 12% max and it's only going to work against racial spells and class spells.. so if the mob has a special ability specific to the mob, then it won't block that ability. And it won't protect against melee abilities either

[physht]

<p>Thank you for answering.</p><p>What is racial spells and class spells? For instance, what Spell is it?</p><p>I'm sorry for the question that happens one after another. </p>

[Dragonreal]

a class spell would be something like ice comet and a racial spell would be something like ravaging bite (wolves always do this one)

[Fromingo]

<cite>Dragonrealms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd rather it not stifle the caster at all.  An AE avoidance ability for wardens is just what they need to make them more desirable at raids.    </blockquote>Because stun is just so much better than stifle? The stifle is an improvement and the root portion is just an annoyance for us, but there's really nothing different about the ability on test now than there is from what it is on live except now if we're str-specced we can melee with it up and proc heals versus just standing there doing nothing at all for however long we have it up. This ability has seen nothing but improvement over what it currently is (even if you're not str-specced you still gain new utility from it due to the new buffs that were added to it), so why complain about it now that it's not a hindrance to anyone but us (and even then I feel the root is only a slight hindrance)? Even if all they did was convert the stun into a stifle/root, I would be thrilled with it.. adding the extra buffing capability to it just makes it into something I actually want to have rather than something I feel I NEED to have for raiding. </blockquote><p>Not sure why you think I think stun is better. What I am saying is I'd rather see it just root me or even the whole party down instead of stifle or stun me. I'll even take a daze that negates my autoattack on top of that. I know you like the idea of group heals from procs and I do too but I personally would like to see one utility that makes wardens desired for raids and this could be it if done right... </p><p><b>To me that means it prevents group AE unless you are the target (i.e. MT still gets hit usually). </b></p><p><b>Me, or my entire group, gets rooted. This adds some skill in using so that you only use when the group is set and in position not when everyone is charging the mob. </b></p><p><b>I get dazed which means no auto attack, greatly reduced DPS from me, and no auto attack heals. But I am not stifled or stunned, so that I can still heal, use CA's/nukes as needed. ---OR--- Another alternative is all my CA's and nukes are greyed out but I get autoattacks and the heal procs and can still heal/cure/buff whatever I just can't nuke or CA. </b></p><p><b>The recast is the same as Bladedance so that the raid is never waiting on me and I don't feel like a dork while everyone taps their foot and stares at me.</b></p>

[Dragonreal]

I guess I just don't see why you are complaining about the stun/stifle NOW when it's been like this since the skill was put in the game (and using this skill as a way to fix warden utility, I don't agree with either because it's available to furies as well). The other thing about it is that part of the ability is a major balancing point for it.. it's why it gets a solid duration and a short recast and all the other aspects of the spell... here's a list of all the AE avoidance abilities in the game and what their limitations are.. it shows a lot better why ours is what it is, stun or root/stifle and all. cleric: <b>single target, group friend only</b>, 30s duration, 50m range, 5 min recast (1 min recast on test and toggleable) bard: 30s duration, 25m radius, <b>10 min recast</b> swashbuckler: <b>13s duration</b>, 25m radius, 5 min recast brigand: <b>self-only, % chance to proc off of CA use, 5s duration</b> (this is the only innate, meaning not an AA, ae immunity ability currently in-game) assassin: <b>self-only</b>, stealths assassin, duration 30s, 1 min 30s recast, boosts in-combat speed by 50% for 10s on termination shaman: <b>requires pet to be alive, based around the pet (I think.. not 100% sure there)</b>, 25m radius, <b>5s duration, 15% (on test; live is currently 20%) chance to proc</b> <b>on the group when the pet hits a mob</b> (keep in mind, this pet doesn't have an offensive stance like summoner pets so its hit chances on higher lvl mobs go down meaning in actuality, the chance of this proccing are less than the listed percentage) The bolded parts are your balancing factors.. our balancing points are that it's a short radius and roots/stifles (stuns for now) us; also note that other than the assassin one, ours is the ONLY one that will buff anything beyond just AE immunity (once the update hits) and the assassin one is a self-only buff and not too incredibly useful while ours looks to be a very nice group buff. I would agree with maybe asking to have a slight radius increase on ours (meaning increase to like 5-10m), but not to completely removing a big balance point like the stun/stifle.. then they would nerf something else on it.. like duration or recast or the soon-to-be buffs it provides.

[Skivley101]

Yes you seem to always hit the nail on the head Ryala ... <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Fromingo]

I am not complaining about it I am bringing it up now because I never cared about it before.  To me that line is useless.  Now I bring it up because they are testing ways to change it and make that AA line more appealing to use.  If I had that AA I'd rather see it take away all my autoattack, CA's and nukes than take away my ability to heal on command.   Also if Str specced then no auto/CA's means no group proc heals.  That's my reasonable balance point,  make me totally defensive when I use it and also make it a PIA by rooting me and the group so that I better know what I am doing before I hit it and root half my group OOR or out of position.     If it was like that I might take it.  It's a very limited situational use ability so it needs to be made more attractive.   Right now though it doesn't make me tempted to respec at all so if SOE's intent was to make the other, less used, AA lines more attractive then they are failing with me.

[Raji]

True, they kind of failed to make the rest of the line more attractive, but I think the endline is great post changes. The problem lies in the fact taht you gain so little on the way to said endline, not the endline itself.

[Dragonreal]

<cite>Fromingo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am not complaining about it I am bringing it up now because I never cared about it before.  To me that line is useless.  Now I bring it up because they are testing ways to change it and make that AA line more appealing to use.  If I had that AA I'd rather see it take away all my autoattack, CA's and nukes than take away my ability to heal on command.   Also if Str specced then no auto/CA's means no group proc heals.  That's my reasonable balance point,  make me totally defensive when I use it and also make it a PIA by rooting me and the group so that I better know what I am doing before I hit it and root half my group OOR or out of position.     If it was like that I might take it.  It's a very limited situational use ability so it needs to be made more attractive.   Right now though it doesn't make me tempted to respec at all so if SOE's intent was to make the other, less used, AA lines more attractive then they are failing with me. </blockquote>So they fail with one person on one line, but get quite a lot of others praising the changes to it (and to other lines), so it sounds to me like the devs did pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] well with our AA revamp. No, not everything is absolutely perfect and/or pleasing for every druid out there.. but nothing in the game ever will be. It's called diversity.. what you think is omgz teh ub3rz! may not give someone else the same feeling and vice versa. But that doesn't change the fact that the devs did nothing but improve our AAs (excepting possibly where they removed the deaggro thing in wis line and made it something else, but even that I haven't formed an opinion on if it's bad or not now that I've gotten the full details on how its replacement works) which was exactly what our AAs have been needing since kos release. And your "reasonable balance point" isn't really a balance point at all because it's only going to affect some of the people who might pick up the agi line (those who feel comfortable running without heal crits which isn't a whole lot from the talk I've seen) so if the devs were to implement it the way you want it, they would also have to nerf some other aspect of the ability to bring it back in line with the other ae avoidances in game. So not only would the ability not be as nice utility as it is now on test, but those people who DID take the strength line would end up doubly nerfed versus the people who ran a full heal spec. How exactly is that balancing? maybe a balance for you since you wouldn't be affected by it...

[Fromingo]

<p>How would it not effect me?  I am a melee warden so Str line is what I would take.  I might give up heal crits for Tortoise Shell if it was more attractive.  That's completely opposite of what you're assuming I would do. </p><p>And no offense but who made you the Warden board [I cannot control my vocabulary]?  I'm posting my opinion,  I never flamed your opinions but you're flaming mine?   You're losing all respect with me with each of these attacks especially when you seem to like to twist what I say into your own version.  </p><p>Lots of AA changes are good especially shapeshift, weapon restriction removals and I love the group heal proc changes.   However unless I am misunderstanding the intent of SOE, they wanted to make other less used AA's more appealing.  I don't see that happening.  From most everyone I talked to they say they don't plan to change AA respecs.    They basically have to make all the AA's have something really cool and wanted so that people are forced to make decisions and changes.    I don't see much difference with warden AA's and nothing at all jumps out at me to tempt me to repec to any other AA lines.  Tortoise Shell could tempt me but not the way it's planned ATM because I am basically spending a ton of AA on 1 situational use ability.  So IMO either the rest of the Agi line needs to be more attractive or the the one ability ability that could be cool, needs to be cooler.   Otherwise it's just not worth that much AA and loss of my original spec. </p><p>I mean this is basic lunchroom trading here SOE.  I'm not giving up my Pizza, Doritos and Soda for a Tuna Sandwich, dehydrated Banana chips and some warm water.  Maybe if it was a super awesome grilled sandwich from Quiznos... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Edit:  Now the bards have some cool revamped AA's and I know quite a few who are tempted to respec....</p>

[Sorano]

<p>The change to Tortoiseshell looks ok on paper until you actually see it in action.  Yes it doubles shield effectiveness, my chance to block went from 6% to 12%, but the effect radius on that is still 3 metres. Everyone has to be pretty much standing on you to get any benefit. The main person you would want to have this buff on is the MT, and the effect radius on this just makes it a pain to use. I am also still not sure if the buff will drop once the MT takes damage, and if it does do that it makes it fairly useless. Basically if you had the AA for the AE avoid, then you still will after the LU. I don't think the changes made to it will really make anyone who did not have it, think twice about getting it.</p><p> The one thing that is rather nice about the AGI line though is the +24% to the first tick on single/group hot. </p>

[Skivley101]

<p>Woo Hoo <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  no more weapon switching ... I suspect the price of swords might go down now too.</p><p>But im just gona stick with my BFH ... The Ancient Velium Warhammer is what ive been using latley (89.7dmg rate/2 sec delay/ 2 hander) wasnt to pricey either</p><p>But if i want some luvin on my healin I still use the Righteous Scepter ot the Godking till i can find better .... Did they add in the Hot on that latley? ... or did i just miss that the first time (getting 600-712 in 6 sec) about twice a min if you spam heal/cure i guess.</p><p>Meh ....maybe ill switch to an Int spec now that i finnally hit 100 AA's ....Keep the CA's But go all out for casting dmg? ....and  the heck with heals .... Those people can save them selves  LOL</p>

[Dragonreal]

<cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Woo Hoo <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  no more weapon switching ... I suspect the price of swords might go down now too.</p><p>But im just gona stick with my BFH ... The Ancient Velium Warhammer is what ive been using latley (89.7dmg rate/2 sec delay/ 2 hander) wasnt to pricey either</p><p>But if i want some luvin on my healin I still use the Righteous Scepter ot the Godking till i can find better .... Did they add in the Hot on that latley? ... or did i just miss that the first time (getting 600-712 in 6 sec) about twice a min if you spam heal/cure i guess.</p><p>Meh ....maybe ill switch to an Int spec now that i finnally hit 100 AA's ....Keep the CA's But go all out for casting dmg? ....and  the heck with heals .... Those people can save them selves  LOL</p></blockquote> why keep the CAs if you're going for casting damage? o_0

[Skivley101]

<cite>Dragonrealms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Woo Hoo <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  no more weapon switching ... I suspect the price of swords might go down now too.</p><p>But im just gona stick with my BFH ... The Ancient Velium Warhammer is what ive been using latley (89.7dmg rate/2 sec delay/ 2 hander) wasnt to pricey either</p><p>But if i want some luvin on my healin I still use the Righteous Scepter ot the Godking till i can find better .... Did they add in the Hot on that latley? ... or did i just miss that the first time (getting 600-712 in 6 sec) about twice a min if you spam heal/cure i guess.</p><p>Meh ....maybe ill switch to an Int spec now that i finnally hit 100 AA's ....Keep the CA's But go all out for casting dmg? ....and  the heck with heals .... Those people can save them selves  LOL</p></blockquote> why keep the CAs if you're going for casting damage? o_0 </blockquote><p>To still have the burst dmg capability & more dmg from afar ... seems to be the better way to take down harder mobs solo (hence who cares what the group gets from my healing) .</p><p>Im not sure about taking all or some of the mele line .... figure ill just respec the druid line first and see how it works with Int and ??? Line ......and keep my warden line that is maxed every AA in CA line with Bat/spores & i skipped on down to Sylph at 4 , plus i have trauma cure maxed for more mit.</p><p>Thats ofcourse untill i decide my M1&M2 roots aint good enough ....ill be keeping my sub 360/ord 365.</p><p>If youve got some insight here ....plz elaborate ... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Skivley101]

<p>fromingo wrote :</p><p>And no offense but who made you the Warden board [I cannot control my vocabulary]?  I'm posting my opinion,  I never flamed your opinions but you're flaming mine?   You're losing all respect with me with each of these attacks especially when you seem to like to twist what I say into your own version.   --->>> to Dragonrealms</p><p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p><p> ???</p><p>Im the Warden board {I cannot control my Vocabulary} scape goat.....lol</p><p>I think you need to relax and maybe think about hikeing ???</p><p>If i ever hit 1000 posts then i might!!!! .... have respect on these boards</p><p>everybodys oppinions are welcome ....and the flameing just happens whether you like it or not ...</p><p>Maybe Ryala is feeling a little sensitive ....not sure ....But either way ... You prodding doesnt help</p><p>If you must know........Your not the first to have intense conversations with her on these forums .</p>

[Fromingo]

ugh without SOW hiking sucks I'll stick to driving  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Skivley101]

<p>^^^ well go ahead and post up ....mister 574 messages posted .....I know im just ahead with 599....</p><p>1 more and im big six ....but i suspect this one might get me banned <img src="/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ...<img src="/smilies/d6741711aa045b812616853b5507fd2a.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ...ahh well <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[IA~CHAOS]

Elyssa@Najena wrote: <blockquote><p>The change to Tortoiseshell looks ok on paper until you actually see it in action.  Yes it doubles shield effectiveness, my chance to block went from 6% to 12%, but the effect radius on that is still 3 metres. Everyone has to be pretty much standing on you to get any benefit. The main person you would want to have this buff on is the MT, and the effect radius on this just makes it a pain to use. I am also still not sure if the buff will drop once the MT takes damage, and if it does do that it makes it fairly useless. Basically if you had the AA for the AE avoid, then you still will after the LU. I don't think the changes made to it will really make anyone who did not have it, think twice about getting it.</p><p> The one thing that is rather nice about the AGI line though is the +24% to the first tick on single/group hot. </p></blockquote><p> You're absolutley right about the +24%, it makes the Wild Regen very desirable.  Before it just ticked fasters uselessly most of the time but now it will help especially when its an AE mob, considering we shine there.  As for Shell, its basically for you and whatever healer you decides needs to avoid and AE at the time.  Just pick the defiler or temp and go stand by them for that AE.  Tap it on, your stifled/rooted for 10 seconds if you have the AE timed and then flick it off.  Its nothing to depend on, its just one of those spells that if you are smart about it you can make the fight a little easier.  </p><p> They really need to destinguish our class still but we didnt get screwed on this GU.</p>

[Arteen]

<p>I can't tell you how useful shell is on fights that have the aoe that causes you to die (or take MASSIVE damage) when you get below 50% power.  Throwing Turtle up before those pulls and having the majority of the MT group not getting hit with that AoE makes the fights 110% easier.  There are other ways to avoid the AE's, but oh well.</p>

[Catsy]

The change to Hierophant Obfuscation is spectacularly horrible. It sounds great at face value--a chance to avoid hostile spells entirely--but it maxes out at avoiding level 70 effects. This basically renders it utterly useless for anyone who fights yellow-con mobs--which is anyone who raids or runs EoF instances at level 70.

[Owlbe]

Can we get 55% run speed now? Or does the run speed not stack with sow?  It used to in-combat speed only but now it says in and out of combat speed.

[Fromingo]

You can already get 55% run speed with our enhanced SOW and Jboots/animalist boots.    Heck group with a pathfinder ranger and get what 65%!    I am totally happy with my Warden's run speed.    I just respecced my dirge and lost my enhanced run speed, I feel so slow compared to warden heh.