GU 36 AA changes and my commentary in the feedback thread

[Ordate]

<p>The changes on test:</p><p>Shaman</p><ul><li>With the exception of the Strength line, all other pet dependencies have been removed. </li><li>Strength 3 - Aura of Haste: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. </li><li>Strength 4 - Aura of Warding: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. </li><li>Strength 5 - Spiritual Foresight: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. Reduced triggered percentage to 15% from 20%. </li><li>Agility 3 - Ancestral Authority: Reduced melee critical chance from 12.5% to 10% per rank. </li><li>Stamina 2 - Crippling Bash: Renamed Dazing Bash: Dazes an enemy for 5 seconds. Increased damage of attack. </li><li>Stamina 3 - Infective Bites: Renamed Block Harm: Increases block chance at 1% per rank. </li><li>Stamina 4 - Herbal Expertise: Improves casting speed, recovery speed, and power cost each by 10% per rank. </li><li>Stamina 5 - Coagulate: Increased bleed health pool amount. </li><li>Wisdom 2 - Ritual: No longer requires symbol equipped, but reduced bonus to begin at 18% at rank 1. </li><li>Wisdom 3 - Ritualistic Aggression: Renamed Ritual of Magic: Increases ordination, subjugation, disruption casting skills. </li><li>Wisdom 4 - Ritual of Absolution: Renamed Ritual of Mind: Improves reuse speed at 1% per rank. </li><li>Wisdom 5 - Ritual of Alacrity: Improved reuse speed from 3 minutes to 1.5 minutes. Increased range from 10 to 25m. </li><li>Intelligence 2 - Rabies: Is not a single target DoT spell, that triggers a more powerful DoT when the first one expires. </li><li>Intelligence 3 - Virulence: It now increases spell critical damage. </li><li>Intelligence 4 - Immunities: Grants nearby allies a chance to outright prevent the hostile effects of a spell. </li><li>Intelligence 5 - Scourge: No longer requires the sacrifice of the pet. It now directly targets a single enemy.</li></ul><p>My commentary in the Feedback thread on he preview:</p><p>First, I would like to say thank you for acknowledging that some of the lines just were not worth crap.  In the future, I request that you listen to your player base that plays this game and does the betas and makes comments about certain lines being useless from the get go instead of however long it has been since KoS was released.  Now I request please overhaul the EoF mystic tree.  Full details of that request under agi below.</p><p>Second, I know that the notes that just hit for the test server are just that test, but let me point out some highlights from the mystic perspective.</p><p>(str) 1.  Dogdog not required for skills in other trees besides str.  A great fix.  Shaman have stated from day one that with dogdog being so frail you had to go to the end line in str to even use him as the smallest ae's kills him, even from group mobs.  I still hold that a better solution would be to make the dog himself ae immune and allow the end skill in str to remain how it is for the rest of it.</p><p>2.  For those that will continue with the dog, not having to cast those pet buffs over and over will be nice.  One favor though.  Can you look into reducing his cast time as well?  We arent going to kick him out over and over to have him tank for us even if you cut his cast time in half.</p><p>(sta) 3.  Will crippling bash retain its debuff portion?  One of the main reasons to pick up that skill before.</p><p>4.  Herbal expertise.  Maybe might be a worthwhile skill now.  Will have to run numbers first.  Could possibly make our cure line in the mystic tree a little more viable then it is now, IF all problems with wards blocking other peoples cures has been resolved.  (more viable = well I have finished buffs they screwed CAs, now where do I put my points... more on that later)</p><p>5.  Coagulate.  If this is cross raid might be ok for mystic, else pretty much a defiler only skill (and they dont have cures in their class tree) so likely still wont be used.  The highlight of that line (4th skill) is cures.  Cures are marginally important in groups but important to raiders.  As such please do your research on who will and wont pick up this skill.  The ones that have a chance at it if coagulate is group only are raid guild mystics that dont have a defiler.</p><p>(wis) 6. Whole wisdom line.  Are these self only?  Group?  Could be good, could be great, could be meh.  Not enough info.</p><p>(int) 7.  Intelligence line.  Could be an amusing alternative</p><p>(agi - the big one, with only one change) 8.  Or perhaps I should call this 8 + however many skills are in the EoF AA tree that arent buff related.  I say this because of the complete wreck of a tree that mystic's got in EoF.</p><p>The Buff branch is a good tree.  Not over powered, has some nice skills to pick up in it.</p><p>The rez tree is an absolute joke.  Waste of points, whoever designed this tree should be fired and whoever puts points into it should just reroll a new char.  Yes death happens but it makes more sense to spend points to stop death from happening or even dps then it does to go "I Failed, I better get good at helping others because I suck!"  IF this was EQ1 and everyone got crap skills that the very last of their aa points would be put into, this would be ours.  Its trash.  Eating less as in EQ1 would be worth more then this branch.  Stated by a multitude mystics and defilers (the defilers felt sorry for us) since EoF beta.</p><p>Cures.  The advantage you get from putting points into these skills is spotty at best.  The trauma one is ok as well as ancient balm if you didnt have to spend a lot of points to get to it.  But otherwise it is a lot of points with little to no end help to us doing our job.  The change outlined above might make these skills a very fraction small more viable but they will still remain relatively crap.  The last skill also needs to prevent charm as stated in the skill description and still needs some help to be useful.  Overall this branch rates "do I have to put points into this?"  Which is slightly better then the rez tree but still rubish.</p><p>Combat arts and the change to the agility line.  The despairing mystic having invested his points into his buff tree and dings that aa where he has to look elsewhere.  He examines the tree and cringes.  Every skill by itself is horrid.  But wait!  I get a skill in the KoS tree that makes my combat art tree viable!  So the mystic respecs off intelligence and goes to agility.  (Yes I was a str/int and not a str/agi mystic prior to eof)  </p><p>This is where I am worried.  By itself the combat art tree is not so good.  If it is looked at as a stand alone tree it is only marginally better then crap.  There are 2 main advantages to this branch.  One is that the casting time for dps'ing is reduced.  The other is that with maxed out crits it made each spell a slight damage increase.  It also opens up what weapons we can use some as we look for long delay weapons otherwise.  I had been using some shorter delay as I could still ca between swings and only would loose swings on heals/debuffs.  While the dps with the perfect weapon could get a little high under very strict circumstances (you need a certain 2hander from a certain contested)  and the right group, for the most part it was an "ok" damage increase for the cost of 42aa.  Thats a significant investment.  More so for a healer.  Granted, we gained dps from two sources, swinging more often, and just a small raw damage nudge to our damage "spells".  But at a heavy cost.</p><p>What all this means is that while you might achieve to bring down our dps some you also make the one branch that pretty much all mystics go to in our eof tree (by force not choice) worse.  For a class that has probably one of the worst eof trees this is another hard blow.  And the really sad part is, while you may get some mystics to get off the str line in the KoS tree many of us will still stay with agility as otherwise 25ish points in our EOF tree is wasted.  You will have only partially accomplished your goal of giving us a true choice between skills.  Aka we can finally go off the strength line.  But we are still pigeon-holed into agility by EoF.  So I beg please look at the mystic EoF tree as well.  Drop the rez tree and replace it, make the cure tree viable or replace it, and make the combat art tree viable stand alone or replace it if you truely wish to give us choice between trees and not just nerf us since we started dps'ing as we had no other choice.</p><p>My request to other shaman out there:</p><p>Speak up and be heard.  Mystics especially.  The change to agility is just a nerf and pretty much won't free us from that line if we choose to go another route.  Beg, plead, demand that they take into account our craptastic EoF skills when balancing the KoS tree as it appears they arent.  Personally I would beg you to request them to overhaul the EoF tree again.  Some of you might disagree with me.  Speak of and make yourself known to the devs also.  I know many shaman have commented on the KoS tree since KoS.  Same with the EoF tree.  And just now they get around to what we have been saying since day one.  Perhaps now they will listen.  It is a long shot admittedly but hey why not?</p><p>Ordate</p>

[Skua]

i full agree >.< get a clue soe.

[Eugam]

70/98 mystic and 70/76 warden here. I am a bit sad about the nerfes on crits and trigger of dog. But i can live with it. The mystic will be very similar to the melee warden damagewise. And i can tell you that a melee spec'ed warden is fun. So will the mystic still be at 80% crits. I am completely against those permabuffs. Aura of Warding is a dangerous thing and i want to decide when to use it or not. I think the intentions of the DEVs wher good, but they overlooked the fact that dogdog is dangerous in some situations.

[AziBam]

That is a great point about Aura of Warding.  I use it raiding and solo.  I almost always have it off in groups since it makes the dog pull aggro (unless you are constantly trying to find the icon in your effects bar and manually cancelling it.)  Sadly, this change could mean that the dog just is used to hang out behind me for the haste buff when running instances or in groups.  :/  My first reaction was "woohoo, no more constant cast/recast of those buffs."  I didn't consider the aura proc.  /bleh

[Bobbette]

I'd love it if they changed one of the crappy eof lines into something similar to what defilers have with their debuff line.  Give us faster casting on our debuffs.  Or give us an "emergency AA" line like defilers have, where we can cast our emergency wards faster. I love our buff line but sheesh, there's not much other choice.  I can't even justify putting points into the cures line with that small useless ward it puts on there.  At least increase the ward amount so it's not laughable. Or have the rez line be for our heals/debuffs ... we can put points into range, power cost, reuse speed, etc.  They could even make it spell specific ... one circle affects the casting speed of our group ward/heal -- even making it to 3-4s casting speed would be awesome, another circle increases the range of our buffs or debuffs (I'm thinking of the cleric AA that increases range of heals/spells), etc.  Or put in a line that procs group heals when we melee like the wardens get.  These are all ideas ripped right from other healing classes' AAs already in the game.  It'd put us more in line with what our evil counterparts get, and more in line with what all healing classes get.  I don't want to be over-powered and godlike ... I just want to open my EoF AA tree and feel like I have some choices besides "put all my points into buffs and some into CAS cuz there's nothing else for me to choose".

[Albiw]

<p>A few comments/questions in italics: </p><p></p><p>Ordate wrote: </p><blockquote><p>The changes on test:</p><p>Shaman</p><ul><li>With the exception of the Strength line, all other pet dependencies have been removed. </li><li>Strength 3 - Aura of Haste: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. </li></ul><p><i>Does this mean only the pet gets the haste buff?</i></p><ul><li>Strength 4 - Aura of Warding: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. </li><li>Strength 5 - Spiritual Foresight: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. Reduced triggered percentage to 15% from 20%. </li></ul><p><i>Horray for proofreading - I assume they mean from 25 to 20 - So the pet is more likely to be hit by AA's</i></p><ul><li>Agility 3 - Ancestral Authority: Reduced melee critical chance from 12.5% to 10% per rank.</li></ul><p><i>Ugh</i> </p><ul><li>Stamina 2 - Crippling Bash: Renamed Dazing Bash: Dazes an enemy for 5 seconds. Increased damage of attack. </li></ul><p><i>If I am understanding this correctly, you do not need to have the pet active to use this now?  If that's true it definitely increases the value here</i></p><ul><li>Stamina 3 - Infective Bites: Renamed Block Harm: Increases block chance at 1% per rank. </li><li>Stamina 4 - Herbal Expertise: Improves casting speed, recovery speed, and power cost each by 10% per rank.</li></ul><p><i>Still not sure how much we really gain from this.  I guess there's a chance it could help if you're not spam cure duty in a particular raid encounter.... or if they improved the EoF cure line to ward a meaningful amount. </i></p><ul><li>Stamina 5 - Coagulate: Increased bleed health pool amount.</li></ul><p><i>How is this different</i> </p><ul><li>Wisdom 2 - Ritual: No longer requires symbol equipped, but reduced bonus to begin at 18% at rank 1.</li></ul><p><i>Not requiring a symbol is nice but if it still doesn't apply to wards it has limited usefulness </i></p><ul><li>Wisdom 3 - Ritualistic Aggression: Renamed Ritual of Magic: Increases ordination, subjugation, disruption casting skills. </li><li>Wisdom 4 - Ritual of Absolution: Renamed Ritual of Mind: Improves reuse speed at 1% per rank.</li></ul><p><i>Even with a rank of 8... not sure how much of an impact this has</i> </p><ul><li>Wisdom 5 - Ritual of Alacrity: Improved reuse speed from 3 minutes to 1.5 minutes. Increased range from 10 to 25m. </li></ul><p><i>definite improvement here</i></p><ul><li>Intelligence 2 - Rabies: Is not a single target DoT spell, that triggers a more powerful DoT when the first one expires. </li><li>Intelligence 3 - Virulence: It now increases spell critical damage. </li><li>Intelligence 4 - Immunities: Grants nearby allies a chance to outright prevent the hostile effects of a spell. </li><li>Intelligence 5 - Scourge: No longer requires the sacrifice of the pet. It now directly targets a single enemy.</li></ul><p><i>Does this mean the pet no longer has to be active to use this?  If so, that's great - I'm not sure how much sense it makes, though</i></p></blockquote><p>Do we still have the weapon dependencies?  I thought most of them were supposed to be removed.  (for example - 2handed spear for the second ability in the agi line)</p>

[rumblepants]

Weapon dependencies are still there though they said it will be done away on the update. My biggest gripe is the AGI nerf (there are better methods to improve desirability of other lines instead of nerfing something that's desired). I mean its not like the damage we put out is earth shattering.

[Triyton]

<p>Ordate, you actually posted that in the feedback thread?</p><p> Just in case there are some devs that may have been, shall we say, less than anti-mystic or mystic-ignorant you did whatever you could to antagonize them with that post.  You could have said all the same things without accusing them of incompetence and calling for their firing.  Any good you may have done with the feedback was probably doubly undone by the way you did it.</p>

[Ordate]

<p>Yes I did.  And if you have been around as long as I have, feedbacked as much as I have, bugged as much as I have, and still not seen crap change, you would allow yourself to an occasional outburst.  I'm tired of our class getting stomped on.  Being sweet and doing things how they should be done is great if it actually works.  I tried pointing out problems with the KoS tree and the EoF tree in BETA of those expansions.  Look where we are now?  Perhaps brute force tactics will work.  Passive tactics arent working from experience.  Would you have me sit back not speak my mind and just continue to be trod upon?  I'm tired of it.  Im trying a new approach.</p><p>And honestly, calling them incompetent is pretty much a statement of the truth.  And I also said he should be fired, I wasn't actually calling for him to be fired.  It was a statement that to date, yes, the dev staff when it comes to mystics don't seem to know what the hell they are doing.  It very well might be insulting.  But at this point who cares?  As I said before, being nice providing straight feedback has been ignored.  Perhaps insulting them will work.  Has worked for others.</p>

[Grimwell]

Antagonizing of the dev team, calling for firings, and telling the team to  get a clue will get some attention. Mine. Shortly thereafter you will no longer be able to post. Evaluating the changes on Test and giving your opinion on the value of those changes - that's fantastic. I encourage you to give feedback like this at any time. Attacking the devs who work hard on the game and actually want to deliver the best results possible every single time - that's not going to work. I'm not going to cut this thread up, or remove it, but the tone shifts immediately or the ability to have a tone in the forums will be lost.

[Ordate]

<cite>Albiwon wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A few comments/questions in italics: </p><p>Ordate wrote: </p><blockquote><p><i>Does this mean only the pet gets the haste buff?</i></p><p><i><span style="color: #ffff00">No everyone in the party will still get the haste.  You just no longer will have to actually cast the haste buff.  It will be part of the pet.</span></i></p><p>Strength 5 - Spiritual Foresight: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. Reduced triggered percentage to 15% from 20%. </p><p><i>Horray for proofreading - I assume they mean from 25 to 20 - So the pet is more likely to be hit by AA's</i></p><p><i><span style="color: #ffff00">They are just lessoning the chance for the group AE prevent to proc.  The dog will still be immune to AEs with this skill.</span></i></p><ul><li>Agility 3 - Ancestral Authority: Reduced melee critical chance from 12.5% to 10% per rank.</li></ul><p><i>Ugh</i> </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">Yay nerfs!</span></p><ul><li>Stamina 2 - Crippling Bash: Renamed Dazing Bash: Dazes an enemy for 5 seconds. Increased damage of attack. </li></ul><p><i>If I am understanding this correctly, you do not need to have the pet active to use this now?  If that's true it definitely increases the value here</i></p><p><i><span style="color: #ffff00">You actually didnt have to have the pet active before.  As long as you hit with either the pet or your own melee the debuff would be applied.  Honestly, Im not sure what they really did to this skill.  It actually could be worse.</span></i></p><ul><li>Stamina 3 - Infective Bites: Renamed Block Harm: Increases block chance at 1% per rank. </li><li>Stamina 4 - Herbal Expertise: Improves casting speed, recovery speed, and power cost each by 10% per rank.</li></ul><p><i>Still not sure how much we really gain from this.  I guess there's a chance it could help if you're not spam cure duty in a particular raid encounter.... or if they improved the EoF cure line to ward a meaningful amount. </i></p><p><i><span style="color: #ffff00">No notes to date that they have changed our craptastic cure line from EoF.  Its actually an "ok" skill by itself.  Nothing to write home about but not "bad" either</span></i></p><ul><li>Stamina 5 - Coagulate: Increased bleed health pool amount.</li></ul><p><i>How is this different</i> </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">The world may never know.  I'm not sure if it is.  I need to see the numbers, if they changed it to raid (would be good then) or if it is still just group.</span></p><ul><li>Wisdom 2 - Ritual: No longer requires symbol equipped, but reduced bonus to begin at 18% at rank 1.</li></ul><p><i>Not requiring a symbol is nice but if it still doesn't apply to wards it has limited usefulness </i></p><ul><li>Wisdom 3 - Ritualistic Aggression: Renamed Ritual of Magic: Increases ordination, subjugation, disruption casting skills. </li><li>Wisdom 4 - Ritual of Absolution: Renamed Ritual of Mind: Improves reuse speed at 1% per rank.</li></ul><p><i>Even with a rank of 8... not sure how much of an impact this has</i> </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">I think thats a little impact that adds up.  It allows to spin off heals/debuffs/etc a little faster.  Really thats a [Removed for Content] good skill when we need to cast a lot of things and we run out.  Rit of magic... Im seriously looking at this tree because of those 2 skills.  If you raid enough and see how often debuffs bounce.... You start liking those + skills.</span></p><ul><li>Wisdom 5 - Ritual of Alacrity: Improved reuse speed from 3 minutes to 1.5 minutes. Increased range from 10 to 25m. </li></ul><p><i>definite improvement here</i></p><ul><li>Intelligence 2 - Rabies: Is not a single target DoT spell, that triggers a more powerful DoT when the first one expires. </li><li>Intelligence 3 - Virulence: It now increases spell critical damage. </li><li>Intelligence 4 - Immunities: Grants nearby allies a chance to outright prevent the hostile effects of a spell. </li><li>Intelligence 5 - Scourge: No longer requires the sacrifice of the pet. It now directly targets a single enemy.</li></ul><p><i>Does this mean the pet no longer has to be active to use this?  If so, that's great - I'm not sure how much sense it makes, though</i></p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">No pet.  The only line that uses the pet now is str.  Int was ok before.  Now its pretty [Removed for Content] awesome from the description.  Actual numbers could change that.</span></p></blockquote><p>Do we still have the weapon dependencies?  I thought most of them were supposed to be removed.  (for example - 2handed spear for the second ability in the agi line)</p></blockquote>

[Legion11]

<p>A fantastic solution would be to make Aura of Warding auto-dispel whenever combat is broken.  That way there's the benefit of not having to rebuff all the time, with the bonus of not having that dangerous ward hanging around to draw agro on the next pull.  A win/win all around.</p><p>Yes you would still have to worry about adds going straight for your dog (and then you 1 second later), so it wouldn't be perfect... but a nice improvement nonetheless.</p>

[Gloriana01]

<p>Am I the only one who'll miss Ritualistic Aggression? I have no desire to melee myself and I always have the pet up, I loved being able to do a little more damage <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  An increase to ordination/subj etc is a big /yawn for me (please let me know if that's actually valuable, I just don't see it as too valuable - to me, it's not as VISUAL as a 400 hitpoint pet attack).</p><p>I love the idea of having aura of warding dispell when combat ends. </p>

[Ordate]

<cite>Gloriana01 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Am I the only one who'll miss Ritualistic Aggression? I have no desire to melee myself and I always have the pet up, I loved being able to do a little more damage <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  An increase to ordination/subj etc is a big /yawn for me (please let me know if that's actually valuable, I just don't see it as too valuable - to me, it's not as VISUAL as a 400 hitpoint pet attack).</p><p>I love the idea of having aura of warding dispell when combat ends. </p></blockquote><p> It really depends on what type of player you are.  For a soloer, probably not useful at all.  For a grouper, marginally useful, for a raider omg give me more +skill items now!  Raiding it becomes so useful because of how often debuffs are resisted, have time frames in which to cast them, and how imparative they are to be on.  It saves time (recasting the debuff) and a lot of mana.  That time and mana lets you do other things.  More heals, debuffs, dps, etc.  Its one of those skills that a small improvement goes a long ways in the right situations.</p>

[thedu]

Any screen shots yet?

[Owlbe]

I just don't understand what they are thinking or what their reasoning for doing things is. - I like that they put more caster options in the aa's for shaman who cast and don't like to melee, that change was good. - Why reduce the crit chance?  Not like we were melee powerhouses by any means.  Seems like they started designing RoK spells and abilities so they had to nerf a bit so not to over power later on or some such non sense. -Ok ,getting away from dog dependence is good.  The dog sucks, we know that and apparently SoE knows it 'cause they are letting us get away from it for the most part.  The dog was poorly implemented as an aa and should have been a spell introduced in out line up so that it could be better/tougher/stronger/etc. - Why not have a pet only line like there was in beta for ppl who like the dog?????  Make the 2nd ability in the str line like ritual aggression was (big dog bite) and rework the 3rd ability to give the dog more hps/mit and such for survivability and maybe some haste to.  Then I might think about having the dog out.

[Aela@Test]

<p>I have given them feedback of the bug with warding.  Hopefully they do something about the "not canceling" of the ward.  I've also mentioned to them the fact spiritual foresight not going up on the dog. </p><p>It looks like aura of warding is totally missing right now from test, however.  So hopefully that at least comes back.</p><p>I do also miss the dps on my dog proc.  I'm kinda (really?) bummed about the changes.  I don't like any of the new abilities.  <shrug></p><p>However, right now, I'm one of the only high level mystics on test, so there isn't a lot more feedback out there then me.   If anyone wants me to look into something, i can.</p>

[Baccalarium]

Please please let me toggle aura of warding.   (Or tell me it doesn't generate hate anymore)

[Aela@Test]

I have actually posted about that to the devs.  They are aware of the issue.

[Greggthegrmreapr]

<p>Shaman AA changes from a PvP mystic</p><ul><li>With the exception of the Strength line, all other pet dependencies have been removed. </li></ul><p>I like this change. </p><ul><li>Strength 3 - Aura of Haste: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. </li></ul><p>I like this change. </p><ul><li>Strength 4 - Aura of Warding: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. </li></ul><p>I like this change. </p><ul><li>Strength 5 - Spiritual Foresight: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. Reduced triggered percentage to 15% from 20%. </li></ul><p>I can deal with this one. </p><ul><li>Agility 3 - Ancestral Authority: Reduced melee critical chance from 12.5% to 10% per rank. </li></ul><p>Bleh.  I love my 100% crit chance.  I can actually win PvP fights with it. </p><ul><li>Stamina 2 - Crippling Bash: Renamed Dazing Bash: Dazes an enemy for 5 seconds. Increased damage of attack. </li></ul><p>Bad change.  One of the few chances mystics have to get away from scouts in PvP.  Daze is pretty much worthless in my opinion </p><ul><li>Stamina 3 - Infective Bites: Renamed Block Harm: Increases block chance at 1% per rank. </li></ul><p>Eh...  not sure about this one. </p><ul><li>Stamina 4 - Herbal Expertise: Improves casting speed, recovery speed, and power cost each by 10% per rank. </li></ul><p>Never used this one so don't know </p><ul><li>Stamina 5 - Coagulate: Increased bleed health pool amount. </li></ul><p>The ability is still pointless. </p><ul><li>Wisdom 2 - Ritual: No longer requires symbol equipped, but reduced bonus to begin at 18% at rank 1. </li></ul><p>Never used this one </p><ul><li>Wisdom 3 - Ritualistic Aggression: Renamed Ritual of Magic: Increases ordination, subjugation, disruption casting skills. </li></ul><p>Might be useful </p><ul><li>Wisdom 4 - Ritual of Absolution: Renamed Ritual of Mind: Improves reuse speed at 1% per rank. </li></ul><p>why not casting speed?  every other priest gets that pretty much </p><ul><li>Wisdom 5 - Ritual of Alacrity: Improved reuse speed from 3 minutes to 1.5 minutes. Increased range from 10 to 25m. </li></ul><p> never used this one </p><ul><li>Intelligence 2 - Rabies: Is not a single target DoT spell, that triggers a more powerful DoT when the first one expires. </li></ul><p>Interesting...  might have to try this one </p><ul><li>Intelligence 3 - Virulence: It now increases spell critical damage. </li></ul><p>People still cast spells with the combat arts? </p><ul><li>Intelligence 4 - Immunities: Grants nearby allies a chance to outright prevent the hostile effects of a spell. </li></ul><p>Probably get this one for PvP and raids </p><ul><li>Intelligence 5 - Scourge: No longer requires the sacrifice of the pet. It now directly targets a single enemy. </li></ul><p>never used the original anyway</p>

[Ordate]

<p>Just a note, this is the shaman tree not the mystic tree.  So things like the spell crit is actually useful for defilers.</p><p>I can't think of your name after I hit reply, but the person on test, as you see raw numbers hitting the test server, please jot those down somewhere here on the mystic boards.  Any skill you can test without too much of an inconvience if it has questionable use see if you can do that as well.  Meaning if something effects a group, a raid, a tiny radius a large radius, etc.  I don't have a high level mystic on test so I don't get to test these major changes unless they are attatched to a beta.  Any info you can provide is helpful.  I wish they would do a copy char for major changes like this.</p><p>Ordate</p>

[christmascracker]

<p>Found this link over at the defiler boards.</p><p><a href="http://eq2flames.com/showthread.php?t=7095" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2flames.com/showthread.php?t=7095</a></p>

[Ordate]

<p>Aela since you are higher level on test could you confirm a few things from that link as to which scale with level?  Ala does ritual of magic  go beyond .8 per rank as you level up?  And on immunities especially if you can buy it and see if it has a duration that would be great.  I don't see a duration in the window which makes me think permanent, but I saw you state that you felt it was temp.</p>

[Sandain666]

<cite>Grimwell wrote:</cite><blockquote>Antagonizing of the dev team, calling for firings, and telling the team to  get a clue will get some attention. Mine. Shortly thereafter you will no longer be able to post. Evaluating the changes on Test and giving your opinion on the value of those changes - that's fantastic. I encourage you to give feedback like this at any time. Attacking the devs who work hard on the game and actually want to deliver the best results possible every single time - that's not going to work. I'm not going to cut this thread up, or remove it, but the tone shifts immediately or the ability to have a tone in the forums will be lost. </blockquote> I wish we got this type of quick response and attention on a normal basis!!

[Aela@Test]

I'll look into that tonight after i get home. They are going to put in a AA-respec bot, so i can mess around with my AAs.  (i'm at 100 AAs)

[rvbarton]

I'm not that high level of a mystic, only level 50, but I'll xfer my character tonight to test and spend some time doing what I can.  Maybe I'll be of some help.

[Finora]

Aela@Test wrote: <blockquote><p>I have given them feedback of the bug with warding.  Hopefully they do something about the "not canceling" of the ward.  I've also mentioned to them the fact spiritual foresight not going up on the dog. </p><p>It looks like aura of warding is totally missing right now from test, however.  So hopefully that at least comes back.</p><p>I do also miss the dps on my dog proc.  I'm kinda (really?) bummed about the changes.  I don't like any of the new abilities.  <shrug></p><p>However, right now, I'm one of the only high level mystics on test, so there isn't a lot more feedback out there then me.   If anyone wants me to look into something, i can.</p></blockquote><p>From first glance, I'm pretty much with you. Bit bummed about the changes. None of the new stuff looks appealing to someone who's rather attached to her dog. (other than making the dog buffs just that,not spells)</p><p>Whether any of the new abilities are any good really depends if/how they scale up from how they show an a newbie mystic (I've only got a lvl 10 one on test). </p>

[Aela@Test]

<cite>rvbarton wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not that high level of a mystic, only level 50, but I'll xfer my character tonight to test and spend some time doing what I can.  Maybe I'll be of some help.</blockquote> You can't transfer characters to test.  Only PVP test, and I'm not sure how that works.  I have class tonight, but when i get home if the AA reset-bot is up, I'll check into a few things.

[Baccalarium]

I'm often a main tank group mystic,  though not a hard core raider.   I'm unconcerned with my DPS, and want to keep people alive better by buffing, warding, debuffing, and curing, and healing. My choices were the strength line and the stamina line.  Though I only chose coagulate after it became a single point instead of 8 points to get it. Aura of Haste, Spriitual Foresight perma bufs is a good thing.   Someone must have looked at my macros:"/say Don't go yet,  I'm still buffing my pet" Aura of Warding would be nice to have the same, except for the fact that it's use is situational while it has the potential to get the dog killed.    If its not getting fixed so it doesn't draw stray agro to the dog, then its got to have a toggle.  I occasionally noticed Spiritual Foresight, but it certainly didn't seem over powered.   /sigh on the nerf to it. <ul><li>Strength 3 - Aura of Haste: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet</li><li>Strength 4 - Aura of Warding: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. </li><li>Strength 5 - Spiritual Foresight: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. Reduced triggered percentage to 15% from 20%.</li></ul>Crippling bash:The debuff on this line seldom would land on any but the trashiest epic.   Daze is probably better than intterupt for heroics and solo, but hopefully the debuff still remains,  as it is in line with the class to be a debuffer,  but I admit I seldom really try the bash anymore. <ul><li>Stamina 2 - Crippling Bash: Renamed Dazing Bash: Dazes an enemy for 5 seconds. Increased damage of attack.</li></ul>Block Harm:If this is a group block buf,  then it seems more useful,  if its self only, its worthless.    I can't imagine my tank complaining, and I doubt the cast time timer slow really helped that many epic fights. <ul><li>Stamina 3 - Infective Bites: Renamed Block Harm: Increases block chance at 1% per rank.</li></ul>Herbal Expertise  10% is a reduction from the 12.5% now.   But rumor is currently the 7th and8th points you put in this wouldn't help anyway due to a cap.  <ul><li>Stamina 4 - Herbal Expertise: Improves casting speed, recovery speed, and power cost each by 10% per rank.</li></ul>Coagulate  I've seen my tank go purple and stand back up.   It wasn't a good sign, and it doesn't happen often but its saved a wipe(once).   Coagulate is the closest I've seen to a raw HP boost for the tank.   I'd be happy to see it boosted some.   Even more happy if it was cross raid. <ul><li>Stamina 5 - Coagulate: Increased bleed health pool amount.</li></ul>Is this fixes so it works with wards and heals or only heals still?    I ignored it when it  was heals only long time ago. <ul><li>Wisdom 2 - Ritual: No longer requires symbol equipped, but reduced bonus to begin at 18% at rank 1.</li></ul>Ritual of Magic:  Neither Ritual of Magic nor Rigualistic Aggression seem valuable to me,  although damage could be nice for soloing. <ul><li>Wisdom 3 - Ritualistic Aggression: Renamed Ritual of Magic: Increases ordination, subjugation, disruption casting skills.</li></ul>Ritual of Absolution,  better than a single target threat reducer, but 8% max hardly seems noticable. <ul><li>Wisdom 4 - Ritual of Absolution: Renamed Ritual of Mind: Improves reuse speed at 1% per rank.</li></ul>The main reason I'd go this line is this last ability.   The reduced reuse time makes it much more appealing.   <ul><li>Wisdom 5 - Ritual of Alacrity: Improved reuse speed from 3 minutes to 1.5 minutes. Increased range from 10 to 25m.</li></ul>Int line,  need to know what the "chance"  to outright prevent  is,   and the not having to sacrifise the pet to get the dispell does seem nice. <ul><li>Intelligence 2 - Rabies: Is not a single target DoT spell, that triggers a more powerful DoT when the first one expires. </li><li>Intelligence 3 - Virulence: It now increases spell critical damage. </li><li>Intelligence 4 - Immunities: Grants nearby allies a chance to outright prevent the hostile effects of a spell. </li><li>Intelligence 5 - Scourge: No longer requires the sacrifice of the pet. It now directly targets a single enemy.</li></ul>If the objective was to make me consider other options,   well the wisdom line seems a bit nicer now especially if Ritual is not weapon specific, and would work for wards and heals.    The int line loosing its AE seems like it will drive folks to other lines.   Unless the Immunities chance is pretty high. The dispell from scourge is nice, but not enough to drive me to that line.

[Ordate]

<cite>Baccalarium wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm often a main tank group mystic,  though not a hard core raider.   I'm unconcerned with my DPS, and want to keep people alive better by buffing, warding, debuffing, and curing, and healing. My choices were the strength line and the stamina line.  Though I only chose coagulate after it became a single point instead of 8 points to get it. Aura of Haste, Spriitual Foresight perma bufs is a good thing.   Someone must have looked at my macros:"/say Don't go yet,  I'm still buffing my pet" Aura of Warding would be nice to have the same, except for the fact that it's use is situational while it has the potential to get the dog killed.    If its not getting fixed so it doesn't draw stray agro to the dog, then its got to have a toggle.  I occasionally noticed Spiritual Foresight, but it certainly didn't seem over powered.   /sigh on the nerf to it. <ul><li>Strength 3 - Aura of Haste: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet</li><li>Strength 4 - Aura of Warding: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. </li><li>Strength 5 - Spiritual Foresight: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. Reduced triggered percentage to 15% from 20%.</li></ul><p><span style="color: #ffff00">I actually understand the reason for the nerf to spiritual foresight.  I don't like it, but it does prevent a lot of damage and effect, although spotty and uncontrolable.  Certain group combos did make it go off more.</span></p><p>Crippling bash:The debuff on this line seldom would land on any but the trashiest epic.   Daze is probably better than intterupt for heroics and solo, but hopefully the debuff still remains,  as it is in line with the class to be a debuffer,  but I admit I seldom really try the bash anymore.</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">It takes two hits to put the debuff on.  If you didnt have the end skill of the combat art tree it would be very difficult to get it to land.  But it was possible. </span></p><p>Stamina 2 - Crippling Bash: Renamed Dazing Bash: Dazes an enemy for 5 seconds. Increased damage of attack.</p><p>Herbal Expertise  10% is a reduction from the 12.5% now.   But rumor is currently the 7th and8th points you put in this wouldn't help anyway due to a cap.  </p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">It was a couple of things.  That skill wasn't a straight 12.5% every point (and was a lesser amount on the mana savings.)  It actually had a curve to it and got worse the more points you spent in it.  My original spec included a splash for that skill, but after playing around with it, and looking at the numbers as I put more skills in, I respeced off the tree entirely.  There is also a point of lag.  You get 24 people in close together and fighting something that is throwing off ae dots that effects every char and every pet... Things slow down a little.  Not video lag, but just true latency.  The gains on the speed become less.  The 10% flat reduction to the mana is actually a huge boost to that skill as long as it isnt applied to itself.  Aka initial cost of cure is 100.  1 point makes it 90, 2 points makes it 81.  Etc.  If its a sum 10% per level applied at once then its pretty good 100 points int.  8 points in skill, new cure cost 20.</span> </p><ul><li>Stamina 4 - Herbal Expertise: Improves casting speed, recovery speed, and power cost each by 10% per rank.</li></ul><p>Coagulate  I've seen my tank go purple and stand back up.   It wasn't a good sign, and it doesn't happen often but its saved a wipe(once).   Coagulate is the closest I've seen to a raw HP boost for the tank.   I'd be happy to see it boosted some.   Even more happy if it was cross raid.</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">Cross raid is really the key to make this skill worthwhile.</span> </p><ul><li>Stamina 5 - Coagulate: Increased bleed health pool amount.</li></ul>Is this fixes so it works with wards and heals or only heals still?    I ignored it when it  was heals only long time ago. <ul><li>Wisdom 2 - Ritual: No longer requires symbol equipped, but reduced bonus to begin at 18% at rank 1.</li></ul><p>Ritual of Magic:  Neither Ritual of Magic nor Rigualistic Aggression seem valuable to me,  although damage could be nice for soloing.</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00">debuffs bouncing off orange epics.  Thats why this skill is good depending on skill bonus.</span> </p><ul><li>Wisdom 3 - Ritualistic Aggression: Renamed Ritual of Magic: Increases ordination, subjugation, disruption casting skills.</li></ul>Ritual of Absolution,  better than a single target threat reducer, but 8% max hardly seems noticable. <ul><li>Wisdom 4 - Ritual of Absolution: Renamed Ritual of Mind: Improves reuse speed at 1% per rank.</li></ul><p><span style="color: #ffff00">Improved reuse isnt as good as improved casting speed.  But it is still a great skill.  It allows you to increase your hps as well as faster debuffing if you need to cast one more then once.</span> </p></blockquote>

[Aela@Test]

<cite>Baccalarium wrote:</cite><blockquote>Block Harm:If this is a group block buf,  then it seems more useful,  if its self only, its worthless.    I can't imagine my tank complaining, and I doubt the cast time timer slow really helped that many epic fights. <ul><li>Stamina 3 - Infective Bites: Renamed Block Harm: Increases block chance at 1% per rank.</li></ul></blockquote>It's self only.

[Baccalarium]

Aela@Test wrote: <blockquote><cite>Baccalarium wrote:</cite><blockquote>Block Harm:If this is a group block buf,  then it seems more useful,  if its self only, its worthless.    I can't imagine my tank complaining, and I doubt the cast time timer slow really helped that many epic fights. <ul><li>Stamina 3 - Infective Bites: Renamed Block Harm: Increases block chance at 1% per rank.</li></ul></blockquote>It's self only.</blockquote> /cry

[Aela@Test]

I gave some feedback last night about this skill.  I suggested that they make it a group skill bonus, or even a single target buff.  Insead of for the mystic only.  Many of the new abilities are great for soloing mystic, or for casting dps.  Most mystics at the high end, just don't do this.  Very few new AA skills are good for raiding or end level grouping mystics.

[SonnyA]

<p>I think the changes are positive. Sure, we might lose some DPS. So what?! we're healers. Who cares if we do 700 or 600 dps. It's not our role. On raids, no one will notice. The soloers will get some better defense which somewhat makes it up for the lower DPS.</p><p>No, the good thing is that now other lines are viable options. The dog is much easier to manage and we actually get some more utility/healing ability.</p><p>I'm looking forward to the changes.</p>

[Birn]

Overall it looks kinda cool, the wis line for example looks worthwhile now with those skill buffs - I hate to see my debuffs getting resisted 5 times in a row, with these it might be a bit better. Also the int line might be interesting aswell if you don't want to go all the way with melee, but we still need some numbers there to see how much you can increase the crit and such before saying too much. and oh, Immunities, this might get really interesting...

[Sandain666]

<cite>SonnyA wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think the changes are positive. Sure, we might lose some DPS. So what?! we're healers. <b>Who cares if we do 700 or 600 dps</b>. It's not our role. On raids, no one will notice. The soloers will get some better defense which somewhat makes it up for the lower DPS.</p></blockquote> You might care if you have  been chosen to meet the challenge of Askadian Adakus. The extra DPS is also helpful for those encounters where you are very close to the Named mob. We can do a substantial amount of damge with autoattack alone. Personally I am hoping Sony rethink this entire AA adjustment

[Raji]

Our melee DPS MIGHT not get hurt that much. And we may actually be pushed towards 1h+sheild with this. Using a 1 hander you could go AGI to endline (that proc is really nice, though in light of changes, I think SOMETHING should actually be given to us), which gives you 80% melee crit+AGI2 CA+tribal proc (35% haste+35% double attack), Shield Bash (which received a damage upgrade),and then take the int line to INT2 for vi rulence (yeah, its a spell, so what?) We might actually gain DPS in this, if played right. Then again, I think we should get tossed a damage proc on debuffs, +dmg to CA's on our melee mystic endline, or something along those lines. Melee Mystics aren't dead, and might not even be hurting, but I still think we need -something-.

[Droh]

Reducing our melee crit chance to 80% from 100% is a f-ing joke. Honestly, why swing the nerf bat towards mystics?

[Dragonreal]

<cite>Birn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Overall it looks kinda cool, the wis line for example looks worthwhile now with those skill buffs - I hate to see my debuffs getting resisted 5 times in a row, with these it might be a bit better. Also the int line might be interesting aswell if you don't want to go all the way with melee, but we still need some numbers there to see how much you can increase the crit and such before saying too much. and oh, Immunities, this might get really interesting... </blockquote> From the defiler forums: Razieh@Nektulos wrote: <blockquote>28% spell crits at 8 points 3.5 per rank in its current state on test. </blockquote>

[rumblepants]

Well I think with regards to the melee crit nerf maybe it won't impact high end groups or raid shamans that much but it does impact players like me who don't group often and duo alot and probably PVPers too. I went down the AGI line including getting the end ability just so the Berserker and I can put out enough DPS to overcome everything not labeled Epic (his STA line was also redone but I think they had it coming). Guess we'll have to come up with a new formula to compensate now.

[Aela@Test]

<ul><li><b>Shaman</b> <ul><li>Strength 4 - Aura of Warding: Is now a permanent buff applied to pet. Triggered ward effect is removed soon after combat ends. </li></ul></li></ul><p>This was my recommendation.  Once I get a chance I'll check and see how long this triggered effect stays active after combat ends.</p>

[Rayche]

As a raid Mystic who uses Torpor/Wards/Debuffs and Melee DPS to contribute to raids in the MT group I fail to see ANY good from these changes except for making Dogdog's buffs permanent, but that's not a fair tradeoff. I'm still tremendously bitter over the (Unexplained) nerf to my Spirit of Wolf, and now this. I don't care about cures or specc'ing in another tree. I'm also not interested in "Waiting to see how this will play out" It sucks. Pure and simple. Losing 20% of my Melee crits sucks. What sucks more is that more than likely these nerfs are being put in place now so that in November when we buy Kunark we'll get most of these abilities back in the way of "Upgrades" from the expansion. Which to me feels cheap.

[Aela@Test]

<p>I just tested these new Aura of Warding changes.  It looks like the ward proc lasts for 30 seconds (same as before) and it continues on the target until the 30 seconds expire.  I can't see any change from pre-patch.</p>

[icetower]

<p>I'm with Ordate on this, Mystic AA suck bigtime, and instead of fixing them properly, we get a thinly veiled nerf.</p><p>The whole concept of having to have your weak pet hit a mob before the ward or ae immunity triggers is unfair.</p><p>The further you progress in the game, the higher lvl the mobs, and the less the dog will hit. I swear I saw one fight against Treah Greenroot where it missed every time.</p><p>Not to mention it cant even be used against mobs with damage shields or some of the tougher bosses such as Mayong.</p><p>What kind of logic is this? The tougher the encounter, the worse your strength line AA gets!!</p><p>Its a shaft, and I still boggle at stuff like the cleric 50% faster casting AA which is for the entire group, while ours is a lesser haste and single target only. I mean who comes up with these massive disparities? The same base concept but the cleric one is a must have and ours is just another in a long line of mediocre choices.</p><p>Get rid of the stupid pet requirements altogether and give us comparable AA to clerics. </p>

[Pvpmedics]

I agree with alot of the above coments. But I really think an great aa would be to get rid of the Blcok Harm:Increases block chance at 1% per rank. Replace this with decrease Single and group ward casting times by 1% or 2% per rank. I really feel this if I can have that extra 1 second or .5 second off my ward that I will be able to successfully complete a ward without getting interupted over and over and over. Im sure most of you have casted a ward and made it to about 95% complete then get interupted, then it castes again and make it to 95% and interupted or stuned again. I feel that a little decrase in the casting time will help us out alot. I feel that this AA would help out not only in PvP but in any situation, so it would benefit both PvP and PvE.

[icetower]

Perigrine@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>I agree with alot of the above coments. But I really think an great aa would be to get rid of the Blcok Harm:Increases block chance at 1% per rank. Replace this with decrease Single and group ward casting times by 1% or 2% per rank. I really feel this if I can have that extra 1 second or .5 second off my ward that I will be able to successfully complete a ward without getting interupted over and over and over. Im sure most of you have casted a ward and made it to about 95% complete then get interupted, then it castes again and make it to 95% and interupted or stuned again. I feel that a little decrase in the casting time will help us out alot. I feel that this AA would help out not only in PvP but in any situation, so it would benefit both PvP and PvE.</blockquote><p> Heh, I agree your suggestion is far better than what we have, but did you realise that clerics have another AA choice which gives them 14% faster cast times on <b>ALL</b> spells. Not to mention their <b>legendary</b> armour set gives 33% faster casting, which is only about 10x better than our <b>fabled </b>(but thats a whole other story =p) </p>

[Ordate]

<p>I agree that faster casting would be huge and very welcomed addition.  Personally I have not checked the cleric trees to see what all they do and dont get.  But I can understand if SOE is careful in handing out too much faster cast and reuse timer increases on top of crit heals, heal enhancers, and alternate forms of healing.  Those things combined greatly increase a healers hps ability.</p><p>The main points I have been trying to drive at that most people, when they rolled a mystic prior to eof did so to heal, buff, and debuff.  Our eof tree reflects one of these (buffs) tries to reflect a second one (cures as heals), has a really bad tree (rez) and one that people pick up because we feel we have no other choice and it is good synergy with one line of our kos tree (and honestly its fun). </p><p>I worry that they are going, look at all these shaman using agi, NERF IT!!! Without understanding what else is going on.  I see some of the changes as good, some needing a good bit more help still (sta line with pretty much no skill really worth going after) and some that were pretty much fine the way they were.  But in the end, unless they fix the EoF trees, every mystic will still have KoS agi line UNLESS they make another 2 trees so over powered it is worth loosing half of our skill points in the EoF tree.</p><p>Ord</p>

[Annabrie]

<cite>Ordate wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yes I did.  And if you have been around as long as I have, feedbacked as much as I have, bugged as much as I have, and still not seen crap change, you would allow yourself to an occasional outburst.  I'm tired of our class getting stomped on.  Being sweet and doing things how they should be done is great if it actually works.  I tried pointing out problems with the KoS tree and the EoF tree in BETA of those expansions.  Look where we are now?  Perhaps brute force tactics will work.  Passive tactics arent working from experience.  Would you have me sit back not speak my mind and just continue to be trod upon?  I'm tired of it.  Im trying a new approach.</p><p>And honestly, calling them incompetent is pretty much a statement of the truth.  And I also said he should be fired, I wasn't actually calling for him to be fired.  It was a statement that to date, yes, the dev staff when it comes to mystics don't seem to know what the hell they are doing.  It very well might be insulting.  But at this point who cares?  As I said before, being nice providing straight feedback has been ignored.  Perhaps insulting them will work.  Has worked for others.</p></blockquote><p>I work at a company that puts out a massive multiplayer online game. I work with our Devs on a daily basis and I can tell you calling for their jobs and naming them incompetent is going to get you nowhere. If I called you an "irresponsible poster who didn't have the brains in his head to keep his loud mouth shut" would that suddenly change your posting habits? Would you say "Hey, this person is right, I don't have a brain in my head."? I need to start doing things differently." I do not think you would. In fact I would go so far as to say you would probably redirect your ire at me, if I had said those things, and then continue posting the way you always have.</p><p>What if the Devs decided to respond to your post by ignoring you, or maybe even going so far as delaying improvements to your chosen class? (I can't imagine a professional actually doing any of this, I am being hypothetical.) Then you hurt your position, as well and making the entire rest of the Mystic community suffer. From my experience the best thing is to state what you want, get as many people to back you up as possible, and present your case in an intelligent and rational manner. If things don't change, don't lose heart. Not everything you want changed will get changed, but SOME of the things you want looked at and re-evaluated just might. </p><p>Go back to providing intelligent feedback. I bet you your opinion is probably looked at quite often since you post so much and are so active within your community. If you were sitting down with a developer to discuss changes in the game, face to face, would you say the things you posted? I hope not. Devs are people, and posts do get read by them. Try and keep that in mind and you may have better luck in the future.</p>

[Annabrie]

<p>First I would like to know if the 10% reduction in the wis line applies to ALL healing spells or, like the older version, just the weakest healing spell (I was so angry when I figured out that it only applied to my smallest heal.)</p><p>Here is the BIG question: Why do our AA's not focus on wards at any point? We are Shaman; wards are what we do that is totally different from other healers. So shouldn't our AA tree include something to make our wards last longer, cost less, cast faster, refresh faster, and maybe add secondary effects onto our wards? (Not like the temporary hit points that they added to our main heals to make them more distinct from other healers. I found the change distinct, but hollow, and rather pointless.)</p><p> I am also looking for some assistance with how I should place my aa.</p><p>Some back ground. I almost never solo. I think I did for the first 12 levels, but after that it was group, group, group. The guild I joined is now raiding, and I want to be as useful in a raid as possible, but still be useful in a group. I won't solo ever so I am not worried about AA that will help me do it.</p><p>What is the best direction to go in for the raiding Mystic? If group focused Mystics should take different AA, what should they take and why? My guild mates have no idea which AA's I should take, so I am asking here. I am sure you're all a great deal more versed than the non-mystics in the guild.</p>

[thedu]

I haven't really looked at these changes in any great detail because I don't too much time to play now a days.  But what I'm seeing here is prep work for the next expansion.  Is it possible that another tree will be added once the expansion comes out that will balance these changes? I hope so. Hard to tell right now.

[thedu]

<cite>Annabrie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>First I would like to know if the 10% reduction in the wis line applies to ALL healing spells or, like the older version, just the weakest healing spell (I was so angry when I figured out that it only applied to my smallest heal.)</p><p>Here is the BIG question: Why do our AA's not focus on wards at any point? We are Shaman; wards are what we do that is totally different from other healers. So shouldn't our AA tree include something to make our wards last longer, cost less, cast faster, refresh faster, and maybe add secondary effects onto our wards? (Not like the temporary hit points that they added to our main heals to make them more distinct from other healers. I found the change distinct, but hollow, and rather pointless.)</p><p> I am also looking for some assistance with how I should place my aa.</p><p>Some back ground. I almost never solo. I think I did for the first 12 levels, but after that it was group, group, group. The guild I joined is now raiding, and I want to be as useful in a raid as possible, but still be useful in a group. I won't solo ever so I am not worried about AA that will help me do it.</p><p>What is the best direction to go in for the raiding Mystic? If group focused Mystics should take different AA, what should they take and why? My guild mates have no idea which AA's I should take, so I am asking here. I am sure you're all a great deal more versed than the non-mystics in the guild.</p></blockquote> I would start a separate thread for this

[Aela@Test]

<p>the 100% crit chance is back in the game.</p>

[Rayche]

Aela@Test wrote: <blockquote><p>the 100% crit chance is back in the game.</p></blockquote> At the cost of what?

[Aela@Test]

nothing is listed.  I didn't notice anything.  They still haven't fixed the ward issue.  The dogdog haste breaking invis is said to be working again, however I can't tell b/c I can't invis myself <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Nregnen]

Initial impressions from a raiding mystic..... I'm liking the changes i'm seeing so far, aura being nerfed is a little disappointing. Str/ all good <--- my current line Agil/ nothing changed now far as i know since crit chance was reverted Sta/ very good improvements, streamlined herbal makes sense, nice line now but seems more for the group/solo oriented mystic Wis/ i'd like to see ritual at LEAST half of the amount the warlock buff is for.(since no #'s avail yet)        improved reuse total 8%, very nice, and that is actually a good amount imo.        alacrity changes, very nice, the limitations on distance made me spec out of it, this was my first line initially at the beginning of kos, this line          looks like it would make for a great mage group healer. Int/ rabies, this description is confusing, it doesn't seem any different than what it already is? <----my current line        virulance, the way it's worded, will this be in addition to the debuff it currently does? if so great, if not, leave virulance as a debuff.  putting            spell crit in this line makes no sense, if it's for self only, it should be in agil line, if it's for the group, wis line then, yes?        immunities, this has great potential, but on what basis will this be founded?  outright resisting and not saying increasing resists are 2 totally different things.  So will this be like a spell-only version of stoneskin/percussion then?  The amount and how this would work will really be important. <i>(would it be possible to get better explainations posted on the next update notes? rabies/virulance/immunities/ritual</i> ta<i>)</i>        scourge, awesome is all i have to say, truly now fitting for debuffing mystic. i'm really torn atm between wis/int, both have really great potential, wis for being great for mage groups and the faster casting(that combined with the mystic set gear for faster reuse on liturgy, + a ring of 4 winds, etc..very nice) ; int line just looks great now the whole way down, minus the specifics on the changes to virulance and the odd rabies spell. Concerning the bashing of the EOF tree i saw alot of; -yes, the buff line is the no-brainer must do line.  SOW nerf, who cares, if i wanted to run fast i would have been a bard. -the melee line, i understand, because some people want to dps and combine that with the agil line, which if all you do is solo or group is a necessity i would imagine, so leave as is.  immunities seemed nice at first, but i aggree the ward amount is so small, why waste the time to cast it?  the last one, immunities, basically sanctuary, is nice but not worth spending the 20 points to get to it. -the res line is probably the most underappreciated line.  from a raiding perspective it's very nice.  if people are dieing, it doesn't mean you're doing a sloppy job.  dps classes do and will pull aggro, and sometimes you can prevent that damage if you are fast enough with wards or already have them up, and other times the epic will get in a good hit and just mash them into a bloody pulp.  if a epic gets turned from a rip and frontals the raid and the squishies die.  and if you have something that memwhipes alot and has a good chance of waxing a dps'er.  These are all occasions that the res line is awesome.  increased hp/power(a MUST, although i think the 15% is a little low for 5 points, an increase to 20% would be appropriate), Faster casting(no brainer), farther casting(no moving around saves time), less power(use for heals instead),  faster reuse(most useful for the incombat).      -not if, but when your dps rips, (and no saying,"well if they're playing it right..blahblahblah&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> getting them back up fast and with hp/power is essential to raid dps, especially if several go down and they're your big hitters.  So, basically, i'm saying don't listen to those that are saying to get rid of the res line, however, make the 8person res a raidwide instead.  there's no big difference between it and just using your group res. my humble and very rare posting that i ever do.

[Ordate]

<cite>Annabrie wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I work at a company that puts out a massive multiplayer online game. I work with our Devs on a daily basis and I can tell you calling for their jobs and naming them incompetent is going to get you nowhere. If I called you an "irresponsible poster who didn't have the brains in his head to keep his loud mouth shut" would that suddenly change your posting habits? Would you say "Hey, this person is right, I don't have a brain in my head."? I need to start doing things differently." I do not think you would. In fact I would go so far as to say you would probably redirect your ire at me, if I had said those things, and then continue posting the way you always have.</p><p>What if the Devs decided to respond to your post by ignoring you, or maybe even going so far as delaying improvements to your chosen class? (I can't imagine a professional actually doing any of this, I am being hypothetical.) Then you hurt your position, as well and making the entire rest of the Mystic community suffer. From my experience the best thing is to state what you want, get as many people to back you up as possible, and present your case in an intelligent and rational manner. If things don't change, don't lose heart. Not everything you want changed will get changed, but SOME of the things you want looked at and re-evaluated just might. </p><p>Go back to providing intelligent feedback. I bet you your opinion is probably looked at quite often since you post so much and are so active within your community. If you were sitting down with a developer to discuss changes in the game, face to face, would you say the things you posted? I hope not. Devs are people, and posts do get read by them. Try and keep that in mind and you may have better luck in the future.</p> </blockquote><p> Considering that a SOE staff member already scolded my ire filled post, it is pretty irrelevant for someone that "works at a company that puts out a massive multiplayer online game" to chime in with their two cents.  More so this late in the post when normal conversational tone has been resumed.  I felt justified in taking the tone I did, Grim let me know that it won't be accepted, I had a nice conversation with him in PMs and have moved on.  I think it would be wise for everyone else to do the same.</p><p>As for your second post, it would be easier to give you a list pre-changes.  Post changes, it would be difficult as things are still in flux.  But a rough break-down for in general the most bang for your buck...</p><p>KoS: str 4, 4, 6-8, 7-8, 1 agi 4, 4, 7-8, 7-8, 1</p><p>EoF: Buffs 5 in pretty much all skills minus the reuse time reduc on the pet healer.  Debates run on bolster vs. avatar.  Deffinately pick up the last skill.  Its omg good in all situations (raid/group/solo) CA line - Pick up the bear proc, circle deffinately, and however many more you want to invest skills in.  This allows you to dps in most group situations at a decent pace while maintaining healing/debuffing/etc. Spare points - After trying a few things I respeced fully to CA and Buffs.  Nothing else seemed worth the investment.</p><p>The whys - Dogdog while a fickle and fragile creature, once under control produces some good results.  A little extra haste noone ever complains about, wards very, MT group in a raid, they actually heal for a good bit, in other groups, they heal less, but help stabalize a group some vs. a nasty ae.  And the AE prevent, while streaky, can save a lot of mana over a night regardless of group in a raid.  Wards in a group setting do a lot of healing, and on occasion have been my source for a large percentage of heals when we have been doing something "easy".  The agility line, gives you the synergy with your eof picks in the form of melee crits, some extra dps (the end skill) and crit heals.  The crit heals are great but can be streaky.  But as they do apply to wards, torpor, OB, etc they can do some nice healing when they go off.  The crit melee is good in all settings except raid when you need to stay out because of a particular AE.  (Gardner for example)</p><p>New trees:</p><p>KoS: Agility and likely str/int/with a maybe on wis depending on what you like.  I dont see a lot of people doing sta other then trying it out and then dropping it. EoF: Same as pre-change</p>

[Whtegranite]

Im really suprised they put our 100% melee crits back in. I would have thought the wardens would have gotten some of theirs back first since its at 60%? right now. Im not complaining.. but I guess anything at 100% does seem like it could be overpowered. Not like my mystic is topping raid dps charts though heh. Yay for good changes! err.. restores!

[Sandain666]

<cite>Whtegranite wrote:</cite><blockquote>Im really suprised they put our 100% melee crits back in. I would have thought the wardens would have gotten some of theirs back first since its at 60%? right now. Im not complaining.. but I guess anything at 100% does seem like it could be overpowered. Not like my mystic is topping raid dps charts though heh. Yay for good changes! err.. restores! </blockquote> <cite>Lockeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Warden EoF melee crit chance reduction is actually a bug fixed in another test update soon. </blockquote>

[Bobbette]

<cite>Nregnen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Initial impressions from a raiding mystic..... [cut] -the res line is probably the most underappreciated line.  from a raiding perspective it's very nice.  if people are dieing, it doesn't mean you're doing a sloppy job.  dps classes do and will pull aggro, and sometimes you can prevent that damage if you are fast enough with wards or already have them up, and other times the epic will get in a good hit and just mash them into a bloody pulp.  if a epic gets turned from a rip and frontals the raid and the squishies die.  and if you have something that memwhipes alot and has a good chance of waxing a dps'er.  These are all occasions that the res line is awesome.  increased hp/power(a MUST, although i think the 15% is a little low for 5 points, an increase to 20% would be appropriate), Faster casting(no brainer), farther casting(no moving around saves time), less power(use for heals instead),  faster reuse(most useful for the incombat).      [cut]</blockquote> I suppose different raiding forces are set up differently.  But in the various guilds and alliances I've been in, generally the none healing rez-capable classes are the first line of rezzes in a raid so the healers can focus on healing ... so my experience has been that paladins, dirges, and necros are usually the designated rezzers. This is why I can't justify spending 21 points in a line that focuses purely on rezzing.  I might justify 5 points in a single AA that improves my rezzes overall, but to spend 20 points to improve very narrow and specific elements of resurrections seems like a huge waste of points to me when my healer is a secondary rezzer at best. Add to this that our class is a very slow casting healer ... and the scenario gets worse (imo).  If the primary rezzes are all down, that means the raid is scrambling to keep up with the encounter and I'm generally refreshing my wards as fast as they come up.  Taking time out to rez is gonna delay that ward/heal/debuff/etc refresh with potentially more disasterous results than if I didn't rez that dps person and they waited for a necro rez to refresh. I add the disclaimer here that my mystic is not my main character.  She's a backup healer that I pull out to fill in when we need it.  So maybe some main raiding mystics can enlighten me.  But that's been my take on the rez line ... I just can't see it being valuable enough to warrant the entire line devoted to it.  If I'm missing something, please give me some more information on what I haven't considered.

[Nregnen]

Velda@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote> -cut- I suppose different raiding forces are set up differently.  But in the various guilds and alliances I've been in, generally the none healing rez-capable classes are the first line of rezzes in a raid so the healers can focus on healing ... so my experience has been that paladins, dirges, and necros are usually the designated rezzers. -cut </blockquote> the last few guilds i was in were like that.  so i agree, setup is definately a huge factor in my current guild.  each individual skill in itself is not that great, but combined, it makes incombat reses from us actually useful.  Also, i'm not pointing fingers here just a general statement/observation, is that the overall player skill of the entire raid force makes this possible, and by having a healer......heal in essence...increases the efficiency of the raid by allowing the other classes to continue doing what they do best. but totally understandable, i know where you're coming from.  i didn't like the line at all when i first saw it, but now that i have almost finished it up, it's actually pretty nice i'd have to say.

[Ordate]

<p>To try and explain why I feel rezzes are crap Ill try and explain out a few things.</p><p>The first thing I use to judge the value of a skill:  Consistencey of use.  If I use a skill/enchanced skill 10 times in an entire raid night (4 hours) it is going to have a fairly low value to me when I look at what to put points (and a lot of points) into.  If I use something often I am going to value putting points into it a lot more.  So given this, things that enchance any consistently used skill of my class is going to see a higher weight.  As a mystic this pretty much creates a list akin to this:  (Buffs though not cast often are used constantly), Wards, Heals, Debuffs, Cures, DPS, Rezzes*.  Cures and DPS skills I feel are almost interchangeable as what mob you can dps on a lot you dont seem to need to cure a lot and vice versa.  I'm also a weird healer, if my attention can be diverted for a moment to cast a rez, I'll pop one out, even though dirges etc are our front line rezzers.  I don't count wipes for rezzes as it is downtime, you are going to have a rez debuff anyway.</p><p>I also try and look at the general impact of a skill or in this case the gains.  If I spend 25 points in rezzes, I will ultimately have these useful skills from it - mana cost reduction, casting speed, and MAYBE health/power.  The reason some of those didn't make the list.  Range:  HELLO were mystics!  We have I think the 2nd longest range in the game!  We really don't need more.  Also any skilled raider can shift around a bit as needed and still keep up heals etc.  Aside from a KB mob, you should pretty much know where any given person is generally, which makes your movement minimal coupled with our already long range.  Reuse:  If you are using your rezzes faster then the current reuse, you have already wiped or you are a rez & buff bot.  There are generally 4+ other healers on a raid, a dirge or 2, a pally sometimes, a necro and who knows what else.  That is a lot of individual rezzes.  Which I will comment on more in a minute, stacking.  Health and power being a maybe:  If you are a raider you should have 1) tons of power regen/clickies/sealedbook of knowledge/mana poisons for scouts/etc etc.  Health aspect most people that die, will catch heals from group heals etc going off and be back up to full in no time anyways.  Sometimes them coming back with more health would be nice, but for 9 times out of 10 cases, doesnt really matter a whole lot.  Mana also has that occasional time where would be useful (mana drain mobs).</p><p>Stacking:  Can I use these skills consistenly with every person in the raid with some benefit?  No for the most part.  A person is rezzed they are rezzed.  Most the time they arent going to suddenly die and you will need to rez them again.  Two rezzes cast on the same person does not increase the raid force in any way and actually decreases it (time and power).  DPS unless the mob is dead, more dps is just that more dps.  Same with heals except when you run into cases of spell stacking (wards on wards).  Cures are similar to rezzes, but save a lot more power in the long run (one cure = a lot of health/power saved in many cases) Debuffs, stack up to a cap, a little extra over stacking doesnt hurt as if someone's falls for whatever reason.</p><p>General OOOMMMPPHHH!  Cures can make or break many fights.  Healing makes or breaks pretty much every fight.  DPS well, we have to kill the mob... and the faster we do it the less likely bad luck will hit (decreased window of oppertunity for things to go wrong).  Rez - I can think of one encounter where a fast rez is good, but the better solution is to keep people alive even then?  But I have never seen a fight where its a good idea to have people die then rez them.  Yes people will die.  Yes it is important to rez them to get them doing their job again.  But will all these points help?  No not really.  All of them combined MIGHT be worth 10 points, though Im thinking less in gain vs. cost perspective.  Honestly I would ho and hum over 10 points.</p><p>In summary, it is my feeling that this line is only value added for someone that runs a mystic on a second box and doesnt really pay any attention to him.  The rez line in that situation will help out the raid as they can push one button every so often and still play their main while providing group buffs and possibly a spam macro.  For any active mystic player, the rez line provides a lot less worth as we will be doing a host of other actions.</p>

[xandez]

<p>agree 100% with Ordate, nice post! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>++Xan</p><p>ps. Happy midsummer festivities to those who celebrate it!</p>

[rvbarton]

very nice post, Ordate.  I completely agree.

[Pvpmedics]

<p>I agree with Ordate as well. </p><p>Also I just noticed last night that Tribal Rage in the Agility line #5 is procing me into combat on the test server. It doesnt do this on the live server, is this a change being tested on the test server? Or is this a bug and not suppose to happen? If anyone else gets a chance have somone go auto attack you but dont engage them or heal, and see if you get proced into combat from tribal rage. Thanks </p><p>Perigrine</p>

[Rayche]

Agree Ordate. Nicely written. P.S. To whomever wrote that nasty comment about about Mystics and the SoW nerf. I don't want to play a Bard, and I STILL think it was crap to lose the speed for no (Given) reason. Unless we get the addition of an ATK/DPS buff to Shaman SoW like in EQ1, then I'm cool with it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[rumblepants]

Perigrine@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>I agree with Ordate as well. </p><p>Also I just noticed last night that Tribal Rage in the Agility line #5 is procing me into combat on the test server. It doesnt do this on the live server, is this a change being tested on the test server? Or is this a bug and not suppose to happen? If anyone else gets a chance have somone go auto attack you but dont engage them or heal, and see if you get proced into combat from tribal rage. Thanks </p><p>Perigrine</p></blockquote>It's happening to me on Test. Tribal Rage goes off and I go into combat mode. Will bug me all to hell if I have to run or just running through a group of aggro mobs to get somewhere.

[-=Hoss=-]

Rayche@Antonia Bayle wrote: <blockquote>Agree Ordate. Nicely written. P.S. To whomever wrote that nasty comment about about Mystics and the SoW nerf. I don't want to play a Bard, and I STILL think it was crap to lose the speed for no (Given) reason. Unless we get the addition of an ATK/DPS buff to Shaman SoW like in EQ1, then I'm cool with it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote> Do you think it has something to do with the fact that out of combat movement speed enhancements will no longer cancel during combat?  Personally, I'd still like to have a buff that makes me blindingly fast for just when I am running between zones.  Not sure how much in-combat movement speed will help anyone.  -h

[tebion]

<cite>rumblepants79 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perigrine@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>I agree with Ordate as well. </p><p>Also I just noticed last night that Tribal Rage in the Agility line #5 is procing me into combat on the test server. It doesnt do this on the live server, is this a change being tested on the test server? Or is this a bug and not suppose to happen? If anyone else gets a chance have somone go auto attack you but dont engage them or heal, and see if you get proced into combat from tribal rage. Thanks </p><p>Perigrine</p></blockquote>It's happening to me on Test. Tribal Rage goes off and I go into combat mode. Will bug me all to hell if I have to run or just running through a group of aggro mobs to get somewhere.</blockquote>that happened on live before, too, but thankfully it got fixed quite soon ... i do hope that is just a returning bug on test ... hell that was the shortest training i did in SoS when i found that bug back then ... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Aela@Test]

<p>There is also something flakey now with the AOE immunity of our dog.  Last night Kenny (dogdog) was getting Dotted by all the cold AOE birds in AoA.  Has this always been the case, or is the AOE immunity not working again?</p><p> I looked at the buffs up on him, and didn't see it.. i also don't remember seeing it proc..</p>

[Ordate]

<p>Aela, that has always been the case.  Now if that is a bug that has exsisted since KoS despite having had a /bug put in on it, your guess is as good as mine.</p><p>Btw, nice pet name... Do you have the accompanying macro "You killed Kenny!  You @#$%!"</p>

[Finora]

<p>Aela, that right there is one of the reasons I truly loathe AoA. </p>

[Zichius]

<p>Agree and i add :</p><p>I DO NOT LIKE NEW IMMUNITIES ABILITY dot.</p><p><img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Dragonreal]

<cite>Ordate wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Aela, that has always been the case.  Now if that is a bug that has exsisted since KoS despite having had a /bug put in on it, your guess is as good as mine.</p><p>Btw, nice pet name... Do you have the accompanying macro "You killed Kenny!  You @#$%!"</p></blockquote> I thought I remembered someone saying that the dog dies in aoa because the dot isn't a blue background dot, meaning it would require the mob target your group/raid and count as a direct aoe because of the target requirement. that explanation made sense to me, but I don't remember who said it and where.

[SnAke19]

agree it would be really nice if you could reconsider our eof tree- only the buffline is worth spending any points in it and there is still the matter that oberon barier is grp limited why a line for better rezzing - thats something really no healer would spent any point for- in no raid situation i see any use for it (in a long battle i can´t afford spending mana to rezz people und in a short but heavy one i´ve no time to it and in any other battles i don´t need it because no one dies and ony for helping the raid to faster come back on its feet after a wipe i see no sense at all) our cureline is of nearly no use - the wards after a cure are very low and the joke is that it expires before nearly every aedot i know hits a second time - endability with charmimunity which doesn´t work on epics does the rest to make this line as crap as our rezz line our dmg line is not bad together with the 100% crit of the eof tree (which i´m happy that its still 100%) but we have no real alternative to it because we got with eof nothing to become a better healer, i origanally startet my myst to be a top healer and not for making dps what i´m also very sad about is that we are as far as i know still the ony healer class wich has nothing at all for lower power cost or better mana-management(in our force i´ve the best manareg/manaleach/ministration equippement and i´m after all the first one before all other healers who´s oom) - why am i so sad? because the most interresting encounters in game are manafights and as a myst i´m not very suited for it - in normal case other classes are preferd for such fights yesterday i talked with our defiler about the new kos lines-i let him know that i´m very happy about the changes in the tree and that if i could i would spend all 50 points of my eof in the old tree - he laughed and said he would never offer any eof for it