When will people learn...

[Wildfury77]

Tanking through CBK - zero wipes, total agro control -----> Platetank joins in 6th slot. Group healer says "We got a new tank! rebuffing......". This despite the fact that my monk has  fabled adorned gear and master CAs including <u><b>Dragon Stance + Taunts</b></u>. This is STILL happening and it pi***s me off!! If i argue i get told "platetanks are better" ----> Usually have to wait for PT&Healer to die a few times and stand there soloing the offending ^^^ until they get the message. P.S. I posted a similar thread when i was tier 2 and would have hoped people would know better by the time they are leaving tier 3 into tier 4............

[Ganeden]

<p>So? Between mit and avoidance tanks the mit tanks are usually better. Even if the plate tank doesn't have the armor/cas you do the group is still better off letting you focus on DPS. If the plate tank just sucks at his class, then that's a different story. </p><p>It's one thing if a group doesn't want you tanking at all if a plate tank dropped from the group, or will look to you for only DPS, but if there's a plate tank and avoidance tank in a group you should expect this. And honestly you <i>should</i> be dpsing instead of the plate tank. Exspecially if they were a guardian or paladin.</p>

[xKHONSx]

<p>A plate tank shouldn't always be tanking and brawlers shouldn't always be dps'ing.  You would let a plate tank in full mastercrafted/legendary tank over a brawler in adorned fabled gear?  You would allow a plate tank who doesn't know what they're doing tank over a skilled brawler?  Both of these scenarios play out quite often and it's rather amusing that people just assume the plate tank should be tanking.  </p><p>I've joined groups where they had a plate tank who had 1500-2000 less HP's than me, less or about the same mitigation, and 30-40% less avoidance but they still wanted the plate tank to tank.  If it's someone who knows what they are doing then sometimes they do fine with good healers, but most of the time in a scenario like this the plate tank goes down and I'm hitting rescue and finishing off the mobs.  After this happens a few times the group finally asks me to tank and I end up finishing the instance or whatever without a problem.</p><p>I'm not saying this is what happens all of the time.  There are obviously a lot of decked out plate tanks and plenty of tanks who have their stuff together, but at the same time there are also a lot of casual gamers who don't have the gear nor the skill.  This applies to any class in the game, but it's really obvious when it is the tank who is lacking the skill and/or gear.</p>

[Oakum]

<p>Most people look at that situation like this. If you have two fighter classes who both can tank then which one can is best at filling a different group spot, usually DPS. </p><p>The bruiser can tank and put out a lot less dps then if they were in offensive mode and the gaurd can just be along for the ride since they have low DPS or rescue the DPS if they draw aggro. Or the gaurd can tank and be usefull while the bruiser can do twice as much dps making the mobs drop a lot quicker with less healing/possibility of a wipe. </p><p>Now if the gaurd can't tank OR does not have the gear to tank (mastercrafted while doing the hardest instances, ect) then its a whole different story. </p>

[Kota]

you are mistaken in your assumption that guardians do lousy dps

[Shrin]

um no Guardians have about the third lowest dps of all classes lowest being templars and inquisiters.

[mr23sgte]

Mystwing@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>um no Guardians have about the third lowest dps of all classes lowest being templars and inquisiters.</blockquote> Tell that to our mt Guard who parses 1400-1800 /fight

[redde]

Mystwing@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>um no Guardians have about the third lowest dps of all classes lowest being templars and inquisiters.</blockquote> And inq dps can be good too.

[Junaru]

Mystwing@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>um no Guardians have about the third lowest dps of all classes lowest being templars and inquisiters.</blockquote> Dude that Guardians are you grouping with? We have a 70 Guardian Fabled & Master. I'm a 70 Monk fabled & master and he out DPSes me most of the time. And to the OP. Yeah it sucks and we all live with it. I've had is happen to me before too. I had a group ask me to MT in CoV. We lost a player and they invited a Guardian to fill in. The Guardian thought he was going to be MT but the group said I was doing fine. Next thing I know I started having aggro control issues. I started checking my buffs and found the Guardian put his dehate buff on me just so he could be MT. When I fconfroned him on it he dropped group and said "go f*** yourselves!". I haven't heard from that Guardian since then. I'm guessing because the command /ignore works so well. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kota]

Mystwing@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>um no Guardians have about the third lowest dps of all classes lowest being templars and inquisiters.</blockquote>this is just an example of how ignorant so many ppl in this game are.  alot of ppl base their assumptions on eq1 while alot just based their assumptions on what jack told helen told sally told sue. 

[Flanikz]

<p>OK look guys and gals,</p><p>Monks tank heroics wonderfully, mostly because of the stuns, stiffles, and dazes, which result in 1/3rd of our CA's.</p><p>But at the same time, all of those can be used while filling a non tank roll as well so that dont really count for much in an arguement over whos is tanking, leather vs plate.</p><p>Ive heard allot of compliants about agro control in other threads, personally i dont have an issue with it as i tank in offense mode with the exception of Nizara which i tank in mixed.</p><p>Wanna stop being replaced as the tank for heroic instances?</p><p>Then start acting like a MT and create your own groups and lead them thru an instance like a fighter class should.</p>

[mattmandude]

Aye, I agree full on with the above poster. I can tank all of the heroic instances fairly easily, with a few exceptions of course (the T8 stuff like Mistmoore Castle, duh!). The thing is, I ALWAYS start my own groups, and sometimes people insist that I invite their friend guardian to tank, and I just lay down the law and make it clear that I will be tanking. Sometimes I'll even send a tell to the guardian and offer him a DPS spot, which they usually accept if they need the instance run. And usually at the beginning they try pull things to make the pulls faster etc... so I chain pull, stretching the group to their maximum, and go full speed ahead through the whole zone, usually with no wipes. Point being, if you know you can tank these instances, then man up and don't let people push you around <img src="/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Also noted, if I'm invited to a group with an MT already, I RARELY try to push him aside and take over... even if he's bad (I'll do it if the group starts insisting I take over), it's just good manners <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[mellowknees72]

<cite>Wildfury77 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tanking through CBK - zero wipes, total agro control -----> Platetank joins in 6th slot. Group healer says "We got a new tank! rebuffing......". This despite the fact that my monk has  fabled adorned gear and master CAs including <u><b>Dragon Stance + Taunts</b></u>. This is STILL happening and it pi***s me off!! If i argue i get told "platetanks are better" ----> Usually have to wait for PT&Healer to die a few times and stand there soloing the offending ^^^ until they get the message. P.S. I posted a similar thread when i was tier 2 and would have hoped people would know better by the time they are leaving tier 3 into tier 4............ </blockquote><p> A) People don't understand how the monk class works,</p><p>B) People think that plate automatically equals better,</p><p>C) People can't get over thinking that the holy trinity (plate tank, plate healer, and crowd control) is the only way to play any game with the word "everquest" in it.</p><p>Unfortunately, that's how it is.  It sucks.  In my opinion, a plate-wearer is NEVER automatically better than a brawler for tanking.  But I've seen people stuck in this mentality lots and lots of times.  This sounds cruel, but I'd be tempted to just drop the group - "Fine, you have a REAL tank now...I guess I can go have fun soloing stuff...see ya!"  Seriously...ugh...this is one of the many reasons why I don't do pick up groups.</p>

[Raidi Sovin'faile]

Perception does not always equal reality... however perception will always shape reality. Even a tank spec'd Rogue can tank pretty much any Heroic instance, just as easily as any Fighter. So it's really not about "who can tank it". What it should be about is "who is it currently working with". If the Monk (or Brawler, or Rogue) is flying through the instance and there's no problems... why change? Why bring in an unknown? And Tsukuwa.. I think I've run into that Guardian too.. or there's been a few of them on mistmoore. Why do some folks have such a hard on for Tanking position... geez.

[Ramius613]

<cite>Junaru wrote:</cite><blockquote>I had a group ask me to MT in CoV. We lost a player and they invited a Guardian to fill in. The Guardian thought he was going to be MT but the group said I was doing fine. Next thing I know I started having aggro control issues. I started checking my buffs and found the Guardian put his dehate buff on me just so he could be MT. When I fconfroned him on it he dropped group and said "go f*** yourselves!". I haven't heard from that Guardian since then. I'm guessing because the command /ignore works so well. <img src="/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p>A lot of Plate Tanks, especially guardians, that I have encountered, ALWAYS expect to be MT, and only OT to another guard.  The reason for this, IMO, they are quite possibly one of the most BORING classes in the game to play otherwise.  I love the monk class, I can do A LOT more things than a lot of classes with the exception of raiding.  I can get to places where scouts can't.  I can solo most ^^^ mobs <66, and have a lot of fun doing it.  Yes we need improvement in a lot of areas, but if they did that, we would put PTs out of a job, and the screams would be louder than what Obi Wan Kinobi heard in A New Hope (pardon the SW analogy, but I thought it worked.)  I agree most people don't understand how well we as a class can tank, and my personal choice is to do DPS in a group/raid situation, and OT if MT goes down.  I can tank almost any zone if the absolute need arises, but there are better tanking monks out there than me.</p><p>One funny story I will add before I go, tanking a grouping in PoA one day, and we picked up a guardian after someone left, and he expected to be the MT.  I was fine with this, but the coer & illus, told him no, monks are better with them before I could get a word in.</p>

[selch]

<p>Yeah, with my FABLED equipment, I can tank HEROIC instances very good. As good as a MASTERCRAFTED plate can.</p><p>So is it how is it supposed to be?</p>