Start a group...

[squirefrog]

I have been seeing alot of discussion on the forum about lack of groups.  It amazes me of how few people actually start a group.  I start a group on Oasis all the time I log on and it always fills in minutes.  I am an altaholic and have a number of alts of different levels.  All I can say to those people who complain about the lack of groups is to try and start one.

[Vonotar]

<cite>squirefrog wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have been seeing alot of discussion on the forum about lack of groups.  It amazes me of how few people actually start a group.  I start a group on Oasis all the time I log on and it always fills in minutes.  I am an altaholic and have a number of alts of different levels.  All I can say to those people who complain about the lack of groups is to try and start one. </blockquote>I try this myself, the issue always seems to be a lack of Tank class players, hence the fact that channels are full of mages, healers and scouts looking for a group...

[Dasein]

Then play without a tank. Unless you're planning on hitting a few of the harder zones, you can make due with a tank pet or some of the more melee oriented scout classes tanking. An extra DPS or healer class can compensate for the lack of a tank.

[Korpo]

What he said. With all the stuns, roots, dazes, etc. that everyone has, a healer, mage, or scout can usually tank just fine.

[Moongloom]

<p>Not to mention people still don't use the new LFG window.  I checked it out yesterday at about 5pm cst and there was one group lfm and only about 15 people lfg on it...but there were many people in chat channels lfg that weren't on the lfg window.  <img src="/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>I admit that I suck at starting a group when I want to group.  I usually just go forage or something until I see a message in chat window for a group lfm.</p>

[Vonotar]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then play without a tank. Unless you're planning on hitting a few of the harder zones, you can make due with a tank pet or some of the more melee oriented scout classes tanking. An extra DPS or healer class can compensate for the lack of a tank. </blockquote>for the "softer" zones it's easy enough to solo or duo, I rarely bother grouping except for said "harder" zones. The real solution is to make it easier for people to find each other, the new LFG didn't go far enough considering how many people have been asking for the ability to list all their toons they would be prepared to play (rather than just the one they are logged into). If I attempt to create a group at level 34 with my berz I potentially miss an opportunity for my 60 wizz, ergo people prefer to 'lfg' on their higher alts.

[Moongloom]

<p>I admit I am not fully conversant in the new lfg tool but isn't there a blank to fill in that could have your alts that you are willing to group also?  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I am not trying to be a smarty pants.  I do wonder if this ability is there.  I am not in a place to check it right at this moment.</p><p>Not to mention what harm would there be to put up the LFG flag anyways even if you have several other alts you are willing to get into groups also.</p><p>Me, I think people don't put the LFG flag up because they feel somehow like it is bad to be LFG and don't want to have the advertisement.   HAs to be some stigma to it for people not to use it.  Even if it isn't the best tool in the world.</p>

[tass]

lol I go to the lfg advanced thing and put up my lfg tag. (dont know why no one ever looks at the stupid thing) and then out of habit I go to the grps lfm section. Now if theres nonbe to be found which is usually the case theres like 4 grps. 2 are lv 70 grps lfm to raid or whatever. and 2 are single man grps started by a mage or scout lol.

[Vonotar]

<cite>Moongloom wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b>I admit I am not fully conversant in the new lfg tool but isn't there a blank to fill in that could have your alts that you are willing to group also?  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I am not trying to be a smarty pants.  I do wonder if this ability is there.  I am not in a place to check it right at this moment.</b></p><p>Not to mention what harm would there be to put up the LFG flag anyways even if you have several other alts you are willing to get into groups also.</p><p>Me, I think people don't put the LFG flag up because they feel somehow like it is bad to be LFG and don't want to have the advertisement.   HAs to be some stigma to it for people not to use it.  Even if it isn't the best tool in the world.</p></blockquote>So if i'm playing level 16 I can put in my LFG that I also have a level 60 ? ... nope sorry, no level 60 groups would ever see it if they search for level appropriate people.

[archimidesX]

Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then play without a tank. Unless you're planning on hitting a few of the harder zones, you can make due with a tank pet or some of the more melee oriented scout classes tanking. An extra DPS or healer class can compensate for the lack of a tank. </blockquote>for the "softer" zones it's easy enough to solo or duo, I rarely bother grouping except for said "harder" zones. The real solution is to make it easier for people to find each other, the new LFG didn't go far enough considering how many people have been asking for the ability to list all their toons they would be prepared to play (rather than just the one they are logged into). If I attempt to create a group at level 34 with my berz I potentially miss an opportunity for my 60 wizz, ergo people prefer to 'lfg' on their higher alts. </blockquote> what are these harder zones at the low levels?  i've done every dungeon up to my 40s in random groups and many of them had no tanks, they just supplemented with extra dps...generally having a rogue class or assassin tank...with enough dps the stuff dies so fast it doesn't matter... i agree with the OP start your own groups and you might find that you won't complain quite so much about not getting groups...

[redde]

Well I play on guk, Every time I want to group, I can have one up and running (in the zone) within 30 minutes. Usually 10. Some days I'm looking for a tank, some a healer, and others for DPS. Mostly a healer though. Since my main is a pally I can form groups really fast with him, and my current most played alt is a coercer. Both only require 1 healer because they can help out in their own ways, so maybe I'm at an advantage. (The coercer with his + and - aggro buffs and mezzes can turn any scout into a perfectly good tank). I even managed to get a full pick up raid force of 24 people together in 15 minutes the other day, only courts of al'afaz, but we killed every mob bar the final witch, only wiping on the end mob. To be honest, if you start a group, advertise it well, do / all 60 70 lfg (or whatever your level range is) and ask all of those, you will have 4 people within minutes. Finding a healer or tank won't take long after that, especially when you say "looking for tank to fill last slot", for example.

[Vonotar]

<cite>archimidesX wrote:</cite><blockquote>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then play without a tank. Unless you're planning on hitting a few of the harder zones, you can make due with a tank pet or some of the more melee oriented scout classes tanking. An extra DPS or healer class can compensate for the lack of a tank. </blockquote>for the "softer" zones it's easy enough to solo or duo, I rarely bother grouping except for said "harder" zones. The real solution is to make it easier for people to find each other, the new LFG didn't go far enough considering how many people have been asking for the ability to list all their toons they would be prepared to play (rather than just the one they are logged into). <b> If I attempt to create a group at level 34 with my berz I potentially miss an opportunity for my 60 wizz, ergo people prefer to 'lfg' on their higher alts.</b> </blockquote> what are these harder zones at the low levels?  i've done every dungeon up to my 40s in random groups and many of them had no tanks, they just supplemented with extra dps...generally having a rogue class or assassin tank...with enough dps the stuff dies so fast it doesn't matter... i agree with the OP start your own groups and you might find that you won't complain quite so much about not getting groups... </blockquote>If you bother to read my posts you'll see that I do start my own groups and that the real point at which I get stuck for tanks is level 60, not pre-40. I have tried getting groups going at 60.. people either leave because their is no tank or leave because the xp they get from what the group can tackle is worse than solo xp. Unless you know a tried and true way of running a SOS (or similiar difficulty zone) group without a tank it just doesn't work. Guess i'm stuck levelling my berzerker until I can be a 60 tank....

[Vonotar]

<cite>redders wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well I play on guk, Every time I want to group, I can have one up and running (in the zone) within 30 minutes. Usually 10. Some days I'm looking for a tank, some a healer, and others for DPS. Mostly a healer though. <b> Since my main is a pally I can form groups really fast with him, and my current most played alt is a coercer. Both only require 1 healer because they can help out in their own ways, so maybe I'm at an advantage.</b> (The coercer with his + and - aggro buffs and mezzes can turn any scout into a perfectly good tank). I even managed to get a full pick up raid force of 24 people together in 15 minutes the other day, only courts of al'afaz, but we killed every mob bar the final witch, only wiping on the end mob. To be honest, if you start a group, advertise it well, do / all 60 70 lfg (or whatever your level range is) and ask all of those, you will have 4 people within minutes. Finding a healer or tank won't take long after that, especially when you say "looking for tank to fill last slot", for example. </blockquote>Yup, you have the advantage.  I have the same advantage at mid 30's level (with my berzerker), especially since our guild have a number of healers under level 40. At level 60 however wizards (which I have) are common, healers are uncommon, tanks are fabled (at least on Butcherblock)

[Rijacki]

Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote> Unless you know a tried and true way of running a SOS (or similiar difficulty zone) group without a tank it just doesn't work. </blockquote>We once had a group, working on claymore quests, of 3 bards (2 dirges and a troubie), a ranger, a wizard, and a conjurer.  We even swapped players in and out with no healers or tanks joining us.  We did have a lot of agro trading (spreading the hurt around instead of concentrating it), the dirges used their heal a few times (and rez only once, if I remember rightly), and the troubie was singing his health.  We survived.  We got down to the blues.  We had to be careful and not get more than one encounter at a time (though when we did get more than one the troubie was working overtime mezzin'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and the few nameds we took on were dicey.  It's what we had, we made it work. I've been in a lot of odd-ball groups, guild pickups, though.  As long as people play their classes -well- and know how agro and damage effect the group members, it can work.

[MadTexan3]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>As long as people play their classes -well- and know how agro and damage effect the group members, it can work. </blockquote>And can be very fun as well.

[DanaDark]

<p>No matter what lvl I am, I rarely EVER find groups on the mistmoore server. It's why I play my conjuror a lot, between my conjy, tank pet, temporary fire pet and the three little sting rays of mine, I got a full group right there! lol. But i LOOOVVVVEEEEE grouping.</p><p>For a while, I played A LOT, like 7 hours a day, and played as a guardian. I was able to just grab people left and right. I always geared up the best I could, and would always hit named mobs left and right, so people that knew me would leave other groups to come with me because they knew I knew what I was doing and that they'd do terrific too.</p><p>But alas, stopped playing, and now no more friends. lol.</p><p>Tanks DO make the group I must say. A popular tank will have an easier time than a person whom plays a tank and only signs on an hour a day or once a week or what not.</p>

[jagermonsta]

See I'm lucky. I play a tank and my girlfriend plays a healer. 99% of the time we will start a group for whatever we feel like doing. I personally enjoy building solid groups to tare through some content. I rarely ever have a problem getting a group together within minutes. Don't be afraid to lead. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I always make sure everyone has a good time. Playing the tank allows me to further lead my party. Speed and success is what most people are looking for and I'll give that to them

[Raveller]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote> It's what we had, we made it work. I've been in a lot of odd-ball groups, guild pickups, though.  As long as people play their classes -well- and know how agro and damage effect the group members, it can work. </blockquote> I entirely agree with this. Unless you are organizing for a very difficult raid instance, it isn't about which classes you have represented in the group, it's about the people at their keyboards. (Okay, the difference that a good healer can make can not be overstated.)

[Salonkolya]

<p>"Don't be afraid to lead."</p><p> I think this is the crux of it. From life experience, rather then game experience, I'd say a lot of ppl are a bit shy of trying to start a group as they feel it automatically makes them the leader and they're not keen on that. So they wait for someone else who wants to be the leader.</p><p>Just a guess.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>I agree. It seems many people are afraid of being judged on not knowing a zone well enough or taking a commanding lead to babysit everyone else through the area (pick up a quest here, this is for such and such, etc) so they simple wait until a more abled body starts a group and they timidly follow the group to learn it.</p><p>There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting up a group and saying "I have never been here before but am dying to check out this zone. if anyone knows it well feel free to speak up, other than that - lets go kill and explore". Those tend to be some of the groups which turn out to be the most fun.</p><p>Last night in SOS as a parting jesture when our group was disbanding, after about 5 hours of picking apart SOS and checking out a lot of it and leveling 7 different toons (we had people who needed to leave and were refilled) - the tank started laughing about how much fun we had and said something to the effect of "but nothing as fun as this...." and went running into a fully populated room of yellow mobs. Yes, he was dead in about 5 seconds but it was hysterical to watch as the remainder of us opted to evac to the entrance. </p><p>Good times can be had when you dont mind taking a bit of a risk to venture out of your comfort zone. Start a group, make new friends and build a solid list of people you jsut enjoy playing with. Remember, there is a notes field on the firends list for a reason, use it.</p>

[EtoilePirate]

<cite>Dasein wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then play without a tank. Unless you're planning on hitting a few of the harder zones, you can make due with a tank pet or some of the more melee oriented scout classes tanking. An extra DPS or healer class can compensate for the lack of a tank. </blockquote> Indeed.  I think a lot of people get overly fixated on "correct" group composition.  Yes, there are some zones -- particularly at level 70 -- where you're not even going to make a dent without at least one tank and one healer and a well-built, balanced group.  I certainly wouldn't go into Mistmoore Castle without a real tank. But I had some ridiculously fun misadventures on my Fury this weekend.  First we took a group to Kaladim: 65 Bruiser, 57 Fury, 55 Brigand, 55 Paladin.  We spent hours in there Saturday just generally seeing how far we could stretch the limits of that group.  (As it conned hard orange to the healer and red to the brig / pally, I'd say we did remarkably well.)  Then on Sunday I grabbed two of my leveling guildies, asked, "who's feeling crazy today?" and we went and did Nest of the Great Egg as 70 Assassin, 66 Bruiser, and 55 Brigand.  It was much, much slower going than when my ex and I duoed it the other day as SK / Fury, or than it would be with a full group, or with a 60+ group, but it was still a blast. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: for 95 zones out of 100, I'd rather have talented, clever players than the right classes.  And as for that other 5%, well, I play a DPSer and a healer... I've yet to have trouble getting the groups I need. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[BungFoo]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>Vonotar@Butcherblock wrote: <blockquote> Unless you know a tried and true way of running a SOS (or similiar difficulty zone) group without a tank it just doesn't work. </blockquote>We once had a group, working on claymore quests, of 3 bards (2 dirges and a troubie), a ranger, a wizard, and a conjurer.  We even swapped players in and out with no healers or tanks joining us.  We did have a lot of agro trading (spreading the hurt around instead of concentrating it), the dirges used their heal a few times (and rez only once, if I remember rightly), and the troubie was singing his health.  We survived.  We got down to the blues.  We had to be careful and not get more than one encounter at a time (though when we did get more than one the troubie was working overtime mezzin'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and the few nameds we took on were dicey.  It's what we had, we made it work. I've been in a lot of odd-ball groups, guild pickups, though.  As long as people play their classes -well- and know how agro and damage effect the group members, it can work. </blockquote>This is so true. I ran around in RoV the other day with three wizards and my mystic. It was hectic and challenging but a *lot* of fun. We only died once too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It probably helped that my mystic is an alt and my main is a wizard so I understand what to expect from the wizzies. Also, they were pretty much able to steal agro from each other at will which made the wards last longer. Every time I see two or three people LFG in level chat I tell them to start a group. It's easier to find more than to find a group to join. I also really like the new LFG tool but no one seems to use it. I figure that as people who do use it enthuse about it more people will start using it.

[Drift3r]

I love the "make a group" statement. It's as if the people LFMing aren't really trying or those with the LFG tag are don't have their tag on. The problem is not people not using LFG tools or LFG chat channels but a increasingly top heavy player base.

[Jai1]

/LFG

[DizzyGee]

Valdaglerion wrote: <blockquote><p>[...]</p><p>There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting up a group and saying "I have never been here before but am dying to check out this zone. if anyone knows it well feel free to speak up, other than that - lets go kill and explore". Those tend to be some of the groups which turn out to be the most fun.</p>[...] </blockquote> This is actually one of my favorite methods, and it works like a charm: It seems I'm always able to find some 'kind and benevolent' tank to lead poor little me through the instances. At the same time my friends list fills with ready and able tanks (and healers and any other classes that I need). There is ALWAYS a first time through an instance, and it is usually a blast.

[Gladiia]

<cite>Salonkolya wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>"Don't be afraid to lead."</p><p> I think this is the crux of it. From life experience, rather then game experience, I'd say a lot of ppl are a bit shy of trying to start a group as they feel it automatically makes them the leader and they're not keen on that. So they wait for someone else who wants to be the leader.</p><p>Just a guess.</p></blockquote><p> There is likely a lot of truth in this.  People want to play and have fun, and don't want to worry that they are the one responsible for how the group goes.  This is something that can go away if you start a few groups tho.  I have rarely been in the group where someone had a problem with the group I made, or how it was going even when I was clueless on what we were doing :p  If you get stuck with the person that thinks you are a bad leader, odds are they feel that way about a lot of people.  </p><p> Something I feel helps a LOT is having an in game 'buddy.'  Someone that is on about as often as you, at the same times.  It seems easier to me to get a full group together (when needed) while paired up then when I am soloing somewhere.  Maybe that's just me tho.</p>

[phoenixshard]

Looking For Group, the best comic strip I've read in a while. <a href="http://www.lfgcomic.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.lfgcomic.com</a> Tell 'em Richard sent you. <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[erin]

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree. It seems many people are afraid of being judged on not knowing a zone well enough or taking a commanding lead to babysit everyone else through the area (pick up a quest here, this is for such and such, etc) so they simple wait until a more abled body starts a group and they timidly follow the group to learn it.</p><p>There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting up a group and saying "I have never been here before but am dying to check out this zone. if anyone knows it well feel free to speak up, other than that - lets go kill and explore". Those tend to be some of the groups which turn out to be the most fun.</p> </blockquote>This is me.  I box a lot, because I often have a short window of time, or I know I'll get interrupted a dozen times, so I won't join a group.  So when I do have an uninterrupted couple of hours, I'm often nervous about joining a group.  Most groups seem to feel that the tank must lead, must know the zone like the back of their hand, etc.  And I play a tank, so I am often afraid to join a group as the main tank.  I'm the person that, given two directions to go, left or right, will always always pick the wrong direction (in real life), so even in zones I know fairly well, I'm nervous I'll go the wrong way.  And zones like OOB, where there's a set pattern, I'm just not the best person to lead yet, I've only been there twice.  So I tend to just not join groups, for fear of being judged, like you said.  I think I'm a decent tank, I have two level 70 tanks, yet I rarely join groups.  You hit it dead on. I'm sure there's many casual folks out there just like me.

[Valdaglerion]

Erin@Blackburrow wrote: <blockquote><b></b> <blockquote>This is me.  I box a lot, because I often have a short window of time, or I know I'll get interrupted a dozen times, so I won't join a group.  So when I do have an uninterrupted couple of hours, I'm often nervous about joining a group.  Most groups seem to feel that the tank must lead, must know the zone like the back of their hand, etc.  And I play a tank, so I am often afraid to join a group as the main tank.  I'm the person that, given two directions to go, left or right, will always always pick the wrong direction (in real life), so even in zones I know fairly well, I'm nervous I'll go the wrong way.  And zones like OOB, where there's a set pattern, I'm just not the best person to lead yet, I've only been there twice.  So I tend to just not join groups, for fear of being judged, like you said.  I think I'm a decent tank, I have two level 70 tanks, yet I rarely join groups.  You hit it dead on. I'm sure there's many casual folks out there just like me. </blockquote></blockquote><p> That is truly a shame, especially with a couple of 70 tanks in your arsenal. I would group with ya, half the fun is learning the lanscape IMO anyway. I had a blast last night going through several instances for the first time. Group members changed a lot through the night as people had their real life to attend to as well. Everyone made mistakes throughout the evening learning the zone and little nuances of mobs there. Sure we wiped, sure a few of us died because someone else pulled a target by mistake, heck once we got evaced during a ring event by mistake. We laughed it off, ribbed the offender for a while in a joking manner and fought our way back through the dungeon, along the way, 2 members leveled on the extra XP so what harm was really done?? </p><p>The undeniable truth is that you will find people in the game that will say you are a bad leader, whatever. Truth is, they will never be leaders but they are afraid to try it for themselves. If they were such great leaders, they would have formed the group. Another reason why it's always a good practice to devulge your knowledge to the group in the beginning, if no one speaks up to take charge, they have no reason to complain later.</p><p>The other undeniable truth is there are an immense number of good natured players who wont judge you for the noob mistakes, everyone makes them. You will find many more of these types than the judgmental types (An an aside the playstyle for the judgmental types is typically very goal oriented. They want to go into a zone, train it if possible, get to the named or bosses and complete it as fast as possible and move on to the next. They arent really there to "play" and have fun in the sense that casual players are there for.) Seldom will a hardcore player do a pickup group or raid anyway because they are easily frustrated with other people that cant lead them through a zone and get it done quickly. If one does end up in your group, chances are they wont stay long anyway. </p><p>Give it a try and let the chips fall where they may. You have nothing to lose and friends to gain.</p>