Question about level locking changes

[Solitude]

<p>How is a fully fabled, fully master level 20 toon killing greens and oranges any different from a fully fabled, fully mastered level 70 killing other level 62-70's without the gear or spell they have?</p><p> I started a new toon for the hell of it without any extra plat to twink him out.  With some dedication and time put into your character you can twink him.  All it took was time to harvest and get ganked.  But with a week of harvesting I was able to get all my adept III's and fully mastered crafted.  It don't take long at all.</p><p>Sure your always going to loose some fights because there always is somebody better than you or somebody whom out numbers you, but in the long run your going to win some fights as well.</p><p> It isn't impossible to start a new char with no money as I've done it and i'm already winning pvp fights but i'm also loosing some.  What happens when you get to 62 when all the 70's gank you its the same thing as  level locking in lower tiers.  Some people don't like the T7 pvp thats x4 raid vs x4 raid so we tend to stay in the lower tiers, some of us don't have the time to play hardcore to join a raid guild.  </p><p> People can blame the Devs' for all the changes in the game but the Dev's are listening to the player base.  So its not the dev's who are ruining the game its the players [Removed for Content] and whining because they got ganked.</p>

[Solitude]

<p>Isn't a level 70 with 100 AA the same as a level 20 with 30AA?  </p><p> All the newer toons approaching 70 have no chance against the toons with 100AA and fully fabled gear.</p><p> Might as well stop the PvE raids on PvP servers those are the toons who are ruining pvp.</p>

[natasha]

<p>It seems to me the concern is for newer players, who try out the server, and then get discouraged after a few times of being killed. I have talked to a few of these people, and honestly, they just weren't the type who enjoy PvP playstyle anway, and were happier going back to their PvE servers.</p><p>For myself, knowing little to nothing about PvP, I didn't complain about getting ganked so much as wonder what made them so strong. I took names...I sharpend my blade, and farmed and harvested for gear since I had no plat hehe.</p><p> So now? When that level locker comes around again, I'll be waiting, and it will be a good fight! I guess I don't really understand why all the fuss on level lockers except people who get frustrated about being killed and want the opposition weakened.</p><p>I had some friends who have joined in the last month and had fun killing lots of people who also had island gear on, as well as got killed by the twinkers. None of them came and asked for the opposing fighter to have his hands tied behind his back so they could hit him a little easier. I haven't come across anyone on (coughs the word Vox) my PvP server who has a problem with level lockers, rather most think it's fun, and it's how I've recruited several people over from my PvE servers. We are all locked in tier 2-3 and are having the time of our lives. We don't target greens unless it's a kill or be killed situation. We look for others who are the toughest fight possible, and relish crossing blades wtih them. Why take this strength down a few notches? It is only reflective of the majority of PvP players-hardcore players who are competitive and looking for that extra edge...most bored with PvE servers.</p><p>Seems to me there is maybe a small minority who has a problem with level lockers. What's that saying? "The squeeky wheel gets the grease". Time for level lockers to unite! I really hope they don't change the system or take away debt xp as threatened...er..mentioned.</p>

[Bozidar]

<p>Airborn,</p><p>First, what point are you trying to make here? I think it's a little lost.</p><p>Second, thank you for the faction.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>The difference is that by 70 you know the game.  If you've had the game for a week, and spent 2 days to get off the island for your first time (what, it could happen if they've got no clue), then hit 10 and step outside to the wondeful world of gankage, you're screwed.  You know this because you're a seasoned player.  They aren't.</p><p>Don't get me wrong, anybody who's played for over two weeks, or had a toon get into the 20's, and still whines is, well, a whiner.  The gist of the problem is that the majority of new players will walk in, spend 3 hours getting the Ned Beatty treatment, and toss the game in the corner.  SOE loses potential revenue, and we lose potential player base.  There have been numerous ideas to change the 'first exposure' levels, this is one of them.  It ain't carved in stone yet.  Personally, my favorite suggestion was the one to disallow locking until 20, keeping the twinks off the newbs until they have a chance to experince PvP against non-twinked toons, but then it was my suggestion after all. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[XeroXs84]

Like already posted, it sure is a problem with new ppl getting "scared away" on the pvp server... It sure was never intended to let ppl stick to a level, and I bet sony would love to just disable levellocking at a whole, but they prolly a bit scared from the results that would cause. By disabling the whole DEBT on PVP servers, they at least make it much harder to get AA without leveling.. only problem left there is that we still got all the old-twinks that will now have a big advantage about those that make new twinks...

[Solitude]

<p>Listen to what your saying?  PvP isn't for everyone that is why there is blue servers.  The people who whine and complain about dying are the ones who belong on blue servers.  </p><p> At level 70 you are level locked, its not even close to fair to what happens at level 20.  When you level lock you still gain xp even if you have max debt.  You gain levels if you continue to do quests over and over.  </p><p> Most of the people who are complaining are players who've been playing this game for a year or more.</p><p> Why dont' the level lockers complain that the level 70's are to powerful for them to level up.  How about all players stop receiving AA once they hit level 70.  So all those quests and AA you missed out on early on your SoL.</p><p> You can't just stick at one level unless your 70, becasue as your turning in quests your gaining xp no matter what even if your maxed in debt.  How about SoE just takes away the whole AA system on PvP servers so we all can fight at an even level and the game is just based on gear and spells.  At least the 70's with under 70 AA now would have a chance iwth the 70's with 100AA.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>I know more than a few people who swore they didn't want to play PvP; now they're hooked.  But the first 20 levels for them consisted of a whole lot of me telling them "it gets better" and helping them out with gear once they hit 22.  They cracked past T2, and it got a little more evenly balanced, and they enjoyed it more.  They went past T3 and liked it more.  Two of them have mains higher than my slow-levelling [Removed for Content] (both of them hit 70, I'm still 63 and getting busted on TeamSpeak).  </p><p>The point is, somebody fresh out of the gate isn't going to have the time or experience to know this.  Sure, some will decide it's not for them and either quit or roll blue.  But some won't.  Those are the ones you want to stay.  </p><p>For what it's worth, level 63 sucks.  Every time I see a 70 or two ... or three ... or four .... they flatten me.  It happens.  I expect it.  But I've been playing since day one.</p>

[Solitude]

<p>Still didn't answer my question.  How is it fair that level lockers at 70 with 100 AA are killing 62+ - 70 with less AA and not as good of gear?  </p><p>Truth is it is the same in every tier.  The more dedication you put into a toon the stronger he will be.  There will always be the one whos a casual gamer who complains about the hardcore gamers.</p>

[Bloodfa]

<p>Actually, I believe I did answer your question, as at 70 (or at 50, or even 40) a player knows what is required to get ahead in the game.  New players do not.  There's the difference.  </p><p>John Q. Newbie, at level 12, has no clue, and no chance, and will probably not give the game the time needed to be able to look back and say "Ahhhh, [Removed for Content], that's what I need to do".  It's about experience.  So it becomes harder for people to farm T2; how is this going to be tough for a so-called hardcore gamer?  They move into T3, along with the rest of the majority.  We're going around in circles here, and I never was a fan of ballroom dancing.  Give the new players some breathing room, a chance to get a kill or two before running into the part where everybody has to pay their dues.  I know that when I got my first kill, I was ecstatic, couldn't wait to go get more.  Then died something nuts like 13 times in a row, because at launch Wardens got clobbered in a fight.  But I learned a few things early on.  New players deserve the same opportunity, and if it increases the player base by just a couple of percent, how can it be a bad thing?</p>

[natasha]

<p>Brand new PvP players do lock fresh off the island, I did! As are roughly half of my friends who are trying it out.</p><p>Taking away debt xp will only frustrate newer players who cannot match the current twinkers even if they try, and will frustrate veterans if you respec their aa's. Even at the new rate of 1.5 they will always be more powerful than the players who start after the update.</p><p>The majority of players in PvP are level lockers...and on servers such as Vox this is where the action is. I don't think people will quit eq2, but alot fo them will leave the PvP servers. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and even after they are gone, ganking will continue, farming lower levels will continue...all the things that turn newer people off of PvP woll continue.</p><p>I got ganked a'plenty while starting out, but  it was merely more incentive to sharpen my blades and look over my shoulder while out harvesting. Much more exciting than the PvE servers. I was going to quit eq2 but have found renewed excitement in PvP. I think people who are discouraged or toss the game merely because they are killed alot, are not true PvP-style players anyway. The ones who like PvP style will sharpen their blades. Take names. And get revenge.</p>

[jam3]

Airbornedeath@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Still didn't answer my question.  How is it fair that level lockers at 70 with 100 AA are killing 62+ - 70 with less AA and not as good of gear?  </p><p>Truth is it is the same in every tier.  The more dedication you put into a toon the stronger he will be.  There will always be the one whos a casual gamer who complains about the hardcore gamers.</p></blockquote> yeah this sounds totally different the level 16s that sit in the caves all day waiting for a noob with app1 spells and some handcrafted gear to run up the ramp and then get pwn sauced. Its not like 70s going hunting for [Removed for Content] noobs in t7 there just there and if they are we kill them unlike the t2 gankers who love to sit in noobie zones and gank people all day.

[Cloakentuna]

Aeryox@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Airbornedeath@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Still didn't answer my question.  How is it fair that level lockers at 70 with 100 AA are killing 62+ - 70 with less AA and not as good of gear?  </p><p>Truth is it is the same in every tier.  The more dedication you put into a toon the stronger he will be.  There will always be the one whos a casual gamer who complains about the hardcore gamers.</p></blockquote> yeah this sounds totally different the level 16s that sit in the caves all day waiting for a noob with app1 spells and some handcrafted gear to run up the ramp and then get pwn sauced. Its not like 70s going hunting for [I cannot control my vocabulary] noobs in t7 there just there and if they are we kill them unlike the t2 gankers who love to sit in noobie zones and gank people all day. </blockquote>Agreed.  When you get into the 60s you SHOULD know that anywhere in KoS there is going to be 70s roaming around that will kill you, especially now that there are tokens to be had.  It's funny now that my illy is coming up to T7 and I've scouted for places to do quests and such using my Swashy, EoF is empty of PvP except maybe Kaladim at some times.  In the low teens The Caves is literally the only place people have got besides Ant and CL, and all of those places are covered with twinks just hunting for those noobs.

[CresentBlade]

Aeryox@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Airbornedeath@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Still didn't answer my question.  How is it fair that level lockers at 70 with 100 AA are killing 62+ - 70 with less AA and not as good of gear?  </p><p>Truth is it is the same in every tier.  The more dedication you put into a toon the stronger he will be.  There will always be the one whos a casual gamer who complains about the hardcore gamers.</p></blockquote> yeah this sounds totally different the level 16s that sit in the caves all day waiting for a noob with app1 spells and some handcrafted gear to run up the ramp and then get pwn sauced. Its not like 70s going hunting for [I cannot control my vocabulary] noobs in t7 there just there and if they are we kill them unlike the t2 gankers who love to sit in noobie zones and gank people all day. </blockquote>I agree 107.3% with you<img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[xenocide85]

Airbornedeath@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>How is a fully fabled, fully master level 20 toon killing greens and oranges any different from a fully fabled, fully mastered level 70 killing other level 62-70's without the gear or spell they have?</p><p> I started a new toon for the hell of it without any extra plat to twink him out.  With some dedication and time put into your character you can twink him.  All it took was time to harvest and get ganked.  But with a week of harvesting I was able to get all my adept III's and fully mastered crafted.  It don't take long at all.</p><p>Sure your always going to loose some fights because there always is somebody better than you or somebody whom out numbers you, but in the long run your going to win some fights as well.</p><p> It isn't impossible to start a new char with no money as I've done it and i'm already winning pvp fights but i'm also loosing some.  What happens when you get to 62 when all the 70's gank you its the same thing as  level locking in lower tiers.  Some people don't like the T7 pvp thats x4 raid vs x4 raid so we tend to stay in the lower tiers, some of us don't have the time to play hardcore to join a raid guild.  </p><p> People can blame the Devs' for all the changes in the game but the Dev's are listening to the player base.  So its not the dev's who are ruining the game its the players [I cannot control my vocabulary] and whining because they got ganked.</p> <p>-----</p>These are completely excellent points.  That's exactly what I've been trying to say, but done so much more concisely.  Another huge misconception is that AA's are what make twinks so strong... fabled gear and the sole addition of a full gank squad make you practically unstoppable.  I don't know if the real concern here was a discouragement and determent of new players, or if it was some misconception about overpoweredness, but I think the single best point we can make in defense of level locking/twinking/AA accumulation is exactly what you said - different people play this game for different reasons and we don't all like T7 game play.  Pursuing AA provides us with an avenue to invest as much time we want, out our own pace, to work towards character development just like raid guilds do without having to log in everynight at 8pm to spend an hour waiting to raid some mob.  I really wish SoE would allow 100 AA, not introduce an AA cap, and let exp debt stay.  I started making my toon in Novemeber of 2006.  I started him out as a Freep, betrayed him to a Q to get their quests, exp debted and exp disabled the entire way.  I've spent countless hours hunting obscure named mobs that I initially never knew were even in the game.  Accordingly I've seen item drops I didn't know were in the game and it's increased my appreciation for lower tier play drastically.  My level 23 SK (which was made in 2006) has 45 AA, 2 fabled peices, 1 legendary, and the rest treasured.  He has 1/2 Master 1's and 1/2 App 1's.  Trust me, he is not a demigod - there are plenty of people I can't kill and having full fabled items and 10 AA would be stronger at this point that what I currently am.  I know because I've been there - Catastrophe, my pre EoF SK is locked at 45 with 41 AA and was locked at level 27 and pvp'd/pve'd in stormhold for months - he was fully fabled/pvp geared. </blockquote>

[tass]

maybe I missed the point in the transaction of the book thats been written in paragraph form up there. So I'll take a guess and say this threads about how no matter what lv you go to your just screwed?