State of the Monk

[Regpyr]

<p>I give up. The forums are really the only place that a class can get needed changes made, if a class has no voice, SOE doesn't care about them and will not fix them. I blame the people on this forum more than anyone else for the current state of the monk. Everyone here thinks they are experts on their class just because they have a level 70 monk. I'm here to tell you that you are wrong in that assumption. I am on Nektulos. Dissolution, the second best raiding guild in the game is there as well, I'm not in it, but I know a few of their members. I have a pretty good idea of the state of the monk. The fact of the matter is end game content is raiding. It is that way in most other MMOs, and it is no different here. You weren't intended to get to level 70 and then group Unrest a thousand times. </p><p>Disso doesn't run a monk, because bruisers out-DPS and out-tank them. If you wanna argue with me about that just shut it, because it's a fact. If you were to play an equally geared monk and an equally geared bruiser against the same encounter you would do better tanking/DPSing. The only way to make monks equal to bruisers is right here on this forum, and because of you people we will never accomplish it Equally equipped warriors can out-DPS and out-tank brawlers as well, by a long shot. Once again it won't be fixed until we as a group ask SOE for change. The monk EoF AA choices are plain horrible, they can boost DPS a little, they can help tanking some, or they can help soloing a litte. Ever look at the other fighters AA choices? A zerker can be specced for DPS and tanking at the same time, and top the parse while keeping aggro the whole fight. I'm talking raiding here, because grouping is a waste of time at level 70 with 100 AAs. This NEEDS TO BE FIXED, and it will never be fixed as long as all the people who think they're so awesome and can tank epics and out-DPS everyone yadda yadda yadda. You people who say you can raid tank just as well as a guardian are full of it. You people who say you out-DPS a zerker who is specced for DPS and has just as good of gear and just as many masters are full of it.</p><p>To you jack of all trades people. You are also full of it. warriors can do everything we do, except better. FD? so what? we can train to the bottom of tough zones, that doesn't mean crap in end game content. Invis? it eats up our power, how about you try an invis totem, which is what smart monks use anyways. Tsunami, what a great ability, but it's broken, it only avoids 100% auto attack from an even con solo mob now. It doesn't avoid CAs, it doesn't avoid 100% auto from heroics or epics, not to mention yellow or orange con mobs. Jack of all trades you say? there are plenty of trades we can't do at all. How about Debuffs? we get 1, 2 with AAs, and the first one sucks, all it does is debuff avoidance a little. look at a brigand. talk about a real jack of all trades, they do great DPS, they debuff better than any other class in the game, they can tank as well if not better than a brawler. THIS IS A PROBLEM, not that brigs are so good, but that monks are so crappy in comparison, and it needs to be fixed, but oooooh no, we have a bunch of people on this forum who like to brag about how badass they are with thier class, and refuse to accept the fact that no matter how good the player is, the class is gimped. Those of you that say monks aren't meant for raiding. I have to believe that you were dropped on your head as a child. Why is it that Wuoshi, the hardest raiding mob in the game currently, becuase you have to clear through EH to get to him, drops fabled monk class pants? If monks aren't meant to raid there wouldn't be monk loot, its that simple.</p><p>My opinion is that monks need to become a DPS class that can still tank decently when needed, much like a brigand. A raid only needs one main tank and a backup tank. Disso runs a Guardian for the MT, and has a zerker and a pally, I'm not even sure what the pally is for, except maybe buffs, and he maybe is the backup instead of the zerker who is DPS specced. There is no point to have more tanks than that, so if SOE made monks better tanks, then we would be even more screwed raid-wise, because they'll never make us better than plate tanks. However, on any given raid there are probably 6 healers 3 tanks 2 dirges 1 troub and the rest DPS/mezzers. Thats alot of DPS spots. Essentially what I'm saying is that there is more room in this game for a new DPS class than a new tank class, alot more room. If monks had DPS that was just under brig/swash DPS than we would fill a niche perfectly, becuase we would still have our little bit of utility, and be able to have t1 or t2 DPS. No matter what we do to the class, something needs to change, and the only way that can happen is if we unite, otherwise monks will continue in the state of disrepair we are in until everyone stops playing them.</p><p>I have given up on this class, at least temporarily. I am now playing my Dirge, because the people in the Dirge community actually realize the Dirge needs some help, and don't bicker back and forth about who is a better player. I have hope for the monk. I will always prefer my monk over my Dirge, but for now the Dirge is my main, and he is my raiding character. It is up to you, the people of the monk community to fix this, I've tried my best, but now I'm leaving you all to your own devices. At least on my Dirge I always have a spot on a raid because I am needed. What it boils down to is this: do raids need monks? Right now the answer is no.</p>

[Kota]

oh, you must have overlooked the 14 page thread titled 'monks need a boost'.  ok are you blind ?!! alot of monks know that we need help.  it peeves me that you act like 100 of us haven't been duking it out on the boards here with a phantom opponent trying to get something done.  you just assume that because we still suck that none of us have done anything ?  do you even read these boards ?  (that was a rhetorical question.  if you read these boards you wouldn't have spent 10 minutes writing yours)  as long as i'm already typing i guess i'll say this again, just for you: ok soe is a business right ?  they wanna make money.  they make money by having us play their game.  they keep us playing their game by making it fun for us.  *pump yo brakes*  some of us have fun by kicking butt and raiding.  when my daughter was 4 she liked to play my toon, and just swim around the ocean in antonica.  for now we'll focus on the ppl who are grown enough to pay for their accounts.  monks aren't kicking much butt.  because certain scouts are kicking more butt than us.  you may think it's a simple fix.  monk = fighter = tank and  scout = dps right?  lower the scout's tanking ability sounds like a simple sollution, but soe is a business.  they'll have to nerf at least 2 classes (i play on a pvp server and i have to speculate on assassin tanking ability) to separate monks from scouts in the tank role.  less happy ppl less money for soe.  fix #2 just boost monks.  well, all the plate tanks will kick and scream if they do that.  once again ppl are unhappy and soe is in danger of losing money.  ppl just assume monks are supposed to be the worst tank.  that's if they even know.understand.com that monks are a tank class.  soe can't fix us without making someone else feel cheated.  blablabla this has all been said just read the thread titles at least before you go saying we aren't trying

[Colvain]

<p>  Kota I have to agree with Regpyr. </p><p>  We have to do something. Bottom line is the Monk class is in the gutter. We all might not all feel the same way as to how fix the problem but something has to be done. </p><p> Anyone who doesnt feel there is any issues please invite me to your next raid. </p>

[Nerill]

Not fixing our completely borked class because other classes will cry and moan is <b>not</b> a reason to ignore us. Frankly I could give a rat's *** about how other classes will cry up a river. My class is a mess and we have lived with it this way for a <b>long</b> time. Devs, please .... please .... please ..... please fix Monks !

[selch]

<p>You know what is most wrong with community?</p><p>Number of [Removed for Content] in monk classes > number of [Removed for Content] in any other class. Simple as that. They will continuously say we can tank heroics very good in our top fabled gear (with twisted logic --why in the world I would need fabled to tank heroics), they will continously say their DPS best, in a raid that has idiot DPS class players. </p><p>Anyway, this fact aside, there is 15 pages of thread, which time to time trolled by people I said in my example above. Mostly agreed fact we need something to bring to a raid, aside from pathetic DPS.  Utility or something that is appriciated. As you said, this is more monk problems than overall brawler problem. Since devs never read this forums but pathetic other flame forums. </p><p>Tanking should be equal on all heroic / named stuff. This is not even case at this moment, let alone raid tanking. </p><p>As another fact, other classes and worm-headed developers never think Monks should be anything. </p><p>- They should not tank! - Why? - Because they wear leather - Plate tanks should not swim then too... </p><p>This is as stupid as this but the fact. We are left with EQ1 minded developers who thinks monks role is being puller where all mechanics are different. We should tank on equal level, we should DPS on equal level, we should be utility on equal level. Currently devs failed their lesson on 3 of those.</p>

[Nerill]

<cite>selch wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You know what is most wrong with community?</p><p>Number of [Removed for Content] in monk classes > number of [Removed for Content] in any other class. Simple as that. They will continuously say they tank heroics good in their top fabled gear, they will continously say their DPS best, in a raid that has idiot DPS class players.</p></blockquote>This made me lol. Because it is most likely <u>true</u> ! <img src="/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zabjade]

Well they rarely visist this forum so you might want to try more viewed forums.

[Kota]

Banzai@Unrest wrote: <blockquote>Not fixing our completely borked class because other classes will cry and moan is <b>not</b> a reason to ignore us. Frankly I could give a rat's *** about how other classes will cry up a river. My class is a mess and we have lived with it this way for a <b>long</b> time. Devs, please .... please .... please ..... please fix Monks ! </blockquote>well you may not care but the devs do.  that's why we haven't been fixed.  they aren't gonna just trade one broke class for 3 other classes claiming to be broke.  yes we need fixed and yes they should at least offer some encouragement here on the forums.

[Nerill]

How about they fix us and give other classes a year to cry about their broken class. We've been broken for long enough. It's time for someone else to walk a thousand miles in our shoes. We've gone long enough .... it's just time for other classes to carry the torch of misery.

[Gasheron]

<p>Now, this is really getting on my nerves...</p><p>How many different threads are there on this forum about how bad we are? How many more threads are there about ways to fix us? How long have these kind of threads been going on?</p><p>Yes, we have problems. Yes, there are a number of idiots who claim that monks are gods. STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT!</p><p>Our problem in getting things done is NOT the few people who are idiots. Our problem is NOT us not coming up with ideas or trying to appeal to the devs. Our problem is that the devs aren't addressing the issue.</p><p>Apparently the large number of threads in our forum is having no effect. It hasn't had any effect since they started popping up, and it still has no effect now. We don't need more threads saying the same [Removed for Content] thing over and over and over just to show even more how the devs don't respond to our problems. I'm tired of checking these forums only to have seen 2 more "We suck" threads popping up.</p><p>I challenge you to find the last post a dev made to one of our "We suck" or "How we can not suck" threads. I know I couldn't find one. Not even a "We know you feel bad, but we guarantee that Monks are as intended," or a "The issue is being addressed." Nothing.</p><p>The devs either believe that Monks are exactly how they intended them to be, don't know about us being so bad, just plain don't care, or are doing something without telling us. The problem is not in the community, and I'm tired of seeing these [Removed for Content] threads.</p><p>Find a dev, and get his attention. Make sure they know that the problem exists. You can't get change when the people in control don't know you want it. We don't need to keep coming up with ideas on how to fix the monk, they're already out there. We need to get some form of acknowledgement from a dev about our complaints. Until then, these threads are just more people spouting the same thing again and again.</p>

[Nerill]

Gash, if you know how to get hold of a Dev then by all means let us all know. Until then, all we can do is continue these marathon threads until we get some kind of answer, bro. It's either that .... or do and say nothing. Which, I sort of doubt will provide better results than letting our feelings be known and trying to share ideas about how best to fix the class.

[Gasheron]

<p>That's the problem, and that's what we should be trying to do. We need to find a dev. As I said, our marathon threads haven't done jack so far, and will prob do jack for us in the future.</p><p>I personally have no real motivation to do this myself, as I have a sort of thing with responsibility. It makes me... nervous... Also, I'm not really a leading member of the Monk community, someone who others can get behind and support. There are much more experienced people here who can probably do the job quite well.</p>

[Regpyr]

Kota, I never said that everyone on this forum is like that. But enough people walk around talking about how sweet and un-broken our class is, that those of us who realize we need a fix are just fighting back and forth with them, and nothing gets done. This is a message to those people that they need to lighten up.

[Foretold]

<p>I have to agree to *some* extent with the OP.</p><p>We have recently seen MAJOR overhauls come to this game because the squeaky wheels squeak louder and louder until they actually have Dev's POSTING on their threads...  And then things end up being done to stop those squeaky wheels from squeaking.</p><p>Domino Dev is oiling the squeaky wheels in Tradeskilling.  Recall the massive *Level Locking is just plain stupid...and whatever* thread from PvP that was hanging around for the last two weeks??? Yeah.  Got a Dev's attention.  And once again squeaky wheel gets MAJOR PvP overhaul in this next GU.</p><p>WE NEED TO BE A SQUEAKY WHEEL.</p><p>My agreement with the OP is that we aren't doing enough to draw attention to our lack of raid utility, not to mention the nerf to double hit that we are going to take on our AA with GU 36.  HEY FOLKS!! The other tanks have double hit, and a LOT of it.  Scouts have double up.  My freaking WARDEN has a double hit chance of 40%.  MY WARDEN.  I consider it a slap in the face to monks and bruisers to take away double hit chances.  But who is complaining?  Who is raising their voices??  Well about 5 of us.  The rest seem strangly silent.</p><p>I also agree with the OP in that we are a class that is tearing ourselves apart.  Half of us SEE the problem of a lack of raid utility.  The other half troll the boards claiming their 1500+ DPS every encounter...how they see no problem with soloing, how they can tank freaking KoS raid content with no problem.  Thats not the issue.  And a lot of those claims aren't even close to valid.</p><p>The monk class is broken.  ASK anyone.  Get on your worldwide chat channel in game and just ASK people what do you think of monks?  You see the posts.  We have conjuror pets being asked to tank over monks for god's sake.</p><p>Here's the deal.  If you dont think we are a gimped class, how about you just DONT troll the threads and repeatedly bash at other Monks... we are all just trying to get the Devs to pay attn and your trolling DOES NOT HELP.   If you think the class is fine, then really, what does it matter to you if you get MORE utility???  Be quiet and let us try to help our class.  It only benefits you.</p><p>/rant</p><p>Now lets keep posting about these issues until we get some attention... </p>

[Ganeden]

<p>Don't try to throw bruisers under the bus. First of all explain to me how we're better tanks. We don't really out DPS you. On one single fight we can and we can have better high average DPS but your haste makes your auto attack alot better and we are very even on zone wide parses. On a raid we end up doing basically the same damage. </p><p>We don't out dps other fighter classes we should just like you and bruisers should be at the top of the totem pole. ALL brawlers need help or other fighters need a dps nerf, thanks for that.</p><p>Also, did you miss the 17 page thread??? "state of the monk" is an epic title but this doesn't show a new side to anything. Add this drivel to the other thread. The wheel is already squeeking on here and the bruiser board, this extra thread isn't going to help</p><p>A dev said a couple months back that they do read all the boards to get an idea of how players are feeling about their class. I keep wondering why after probably 150 pages of complaints on both brawlers forums they haven't addressed it even once. I think we're going to have to wait until RoK for a boost guys, either that or the devs think we're fine and won't change anything ever.</p>

[Gasheron]

<cite>Ganeden wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Don't try to throw bruisers under the bus. First of all explain to me how we're better tanks. We don't really out DPS you. On one single fight we can and we can have better high average DPS but your haste makes your auto attack alot better and we are very even on zone wide parses. On a raid we end up doing basically the same damage. </p><p>We don't out dps other fighter classes we should just like you and bruisers should be at the top of the totem pole. ALL brawlers need help or other fighters need a dps nerf, thanks for that.</p><p> <span style="color: #0000cc">    I don't think I've seen that many that think Bruisers are better/worse than monks. You guys DO have Drag, but other than that, yes, we are pretty much in the same boat.</span></p><p>Also, did you miss the 17 page thread??? "state of the monk" is an epic title but this doesn't show a new side to anything. Add this drivel to the other thread. The wheel is already squeeking on here and the bruiser board, this extra thread isn't going to help</p><p>     <span style="color: #0000cc">And this is my point in my post earlier in this thread. We have plenty of threads on both forums about our problems and our fixes. We have more threads in each individ forum (ex. Monk OR Bruiser) than most classes have in their class type forums combined (ex. Pallies & SKs). However, nothing has changed. We are still in this problematic state. Apparently, the wheel isn't working.</span></p><p>A dev said a couple months back that they do read all the boards to get an idea of how players are feeling about their class. I keep wondering why after probably 150 pages of complaints on both brawlers forums they haven't addressed it even once. I think we're going to have to wait until RoK for a boost guys, either that or the devs think we're fine and won't change anything ever.</p></blockquote> You really think we're going to get a boost in RoK? Don't you remember the last adv. pack? Fallen Dynasty. An island inhabited by pirates and monks. Nothing but pirates and monks. The perfect opportunity for brawlers to gain a bit of power. What'd we get? Nada.

[Ganeden]

Gasheron wrote: <blockquote><p>You really think we're going to get a boost in RoK? Don't you remember the last adv. pack? Fallen Dynasty. An island inhabited by pirates and monks. Nothing but pirates and monks. The perfect opportunity for brawlers to gain a bit of power. What'd we get? Nada.</p></blockquote> No, I don't think we're going to get a boost in RoK. Grimwell said a few days ago that he had seen our threads and that this upcoming aa patch would address them. Ovbiously they haven't, we'll get maybe 50 extra dps out of it. I have to <i>hope</i> that the new CAs we'll get in RoK will give us awesome utility or seriously up our damage compared to other fighters (see berzerkers). I doubt there's going to be another major game update before RoK comes out so I'm pinning my hopes on the exspansion. If RoK comes out and we're still as gimped as we are I'll roll another class.