What are your opinions on a non-mentoring way to lower your level?

[MrJekylls]

<p>Hi all, I was wondering what people thought of a way to temporarily lower your level that does not involve mentoring, and if there is support for the idea, what the chances are of convincing the powers that be to make it happen. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>My thought:</p><p>Once every 7 days <b>while in your house</b> you can lower your level. It will last until the next time you enter your house and do the hokey-pokey (or whatever other game design is decided upon). This would stop the abuse that was probably the first thought that entered your mind - "Great, so now you can waltz through a grey dungeon, lower your level, kill the named, and waltz out." <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Oh no no no my friends! I see this as a way to allow level capped or casual players to easily lower their level and re-experience the game. Perhaps run old quests they were never able to finish, or again be challenged by a favourite zone they left behind 30 levels ago. It might also reinvigorate the lower level game and get more groups going across all levels.</p><p>MMOGs are designed as a continual progression forward. The result of this is that, as the game matures, the lower level zones clear out and the higher level zones become over populated. While mentoring offers a nearly identical way to overcome this, is still has the significant limitation of needing a second player of a specific level to be around. So unless you have a number of friends across a number of levels, you are still don't have much choice in what level you can become. By allowing an 'unlimited' choice (you can downgrade to any previous level) for an 'unlimited' amount of time (literally requiring you to return your house to return to your 'real' level), it will, in my opinion, really improve upon the mentoring design (which I personally love!). Plus I can see guilds having 'lowbie raid night', where everybody downgrades to a low level and runs through dungeon X. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Perhaps we'll even see guilds trying to see how low a level they can get to while still completing a dungeon!</p><p>Anyhoo, this was just a random thought that popped into my mind, so I was wondering the opinions of others. Don't be shy - lemme have it! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ijiamee]

<p>I like the idea. I'd love to be able to mentor myself down to complete all of those grey solo quests I have in my journal. I'd also like to see some of the lower content, but not need to reroll. </p><p>I've been on a 2 1/2 year break so there is a lot of lower level new content I'd like to see and play though. </p>

[Ravaan]

as long as you dont get any loot while being lower level ... we already have enough problems with farmers.

[Eriol]

<cite>Ravaan wrote:</cite><blockquote>as long as you dont get any loot while being lower level ... we already have enough problems with farmers.</blockquote>I don't think that's a factor here.  There's already far quicker and more effective ways of doing that, like taking a group of 5 "way too high" and 1 "appropriate level" through a dungeon, slaughtering everything that's lowbie to escort them, then mentor only for the named pulls.  Or even CoH the low guy around.  It'd be SLOWER to run a dungeon with the suggested way, rather than exploit the mentoring mechanism. I say go with the idea as-advertised, though don't put a time restriction on it.  Being in the house alone is enough to prevent the exploits.  Timeouts aren't necessary.

[interstellarmatter]

<p>They should put unrestricted self-mentoring to any level.  That would allow you to re-live old zones.  Also, make every quest repeatable.  You just don't actually get the XP/AA/money more than one time.  That way, you could go back and enjoy the old quests.</p><p>The only restriction would be no master chest drops.  That would make this useless to farmers, but enjoyable to those just wanting to have fun. </p>

[redde]

No chest drops at all would be fine - unless you had a character in your group to whom the mob would not be grey, but then you would just mentor him.

[interstellarmatter]

<cite>redders wrote:</cite><blockquote>No chest drops at all would be fine - unless you had a character in your group to whom the mob would not be grey, but then you would just mentor him. </blockquote><p> I don't see regular chest drops as a problem.  99% of it is just vendor trash.  You might as well get something while you are having fun.  It would be kind of stupid for farmers to self-mentor for regular chest drops.  You can farm at 70 and get vendor trash worth x50 more money.</p><p>Also, no lore drops if self-mentored.</p>

[Alienor]

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>They should put unrestricted self-mentoring to any level.  That would allow you to re-live old zones.  Also, make every quest repeatable.  You just don't actually get the XP/AA/money more than one time.  That way, you could go back and enjoy the old quests.</p><p>The only restriction would be no master chest drops.  That would make this useless to farmers, but enjoyable to those just wanting to have fun. </p>Also, no lore drops if self-mentored.</blockquote> Do you really believe that farmers have only one account? Heck, even me was thinking of opening another account with 6 characters every major level for mentoring down. You put these alts on zone entry and do whatever you intend to do. However I have to admit that self-mentoring looks a little bit like cheating, eg. when doing low level heritages at lvl 70 and mentor just for the turn in. But hey, I am doing just this anyway now, with the help of some random kind soul in the zone. This is the only way to have the fun of heritages when you can only solo for the usual reasons. You get lore drops right now even if the mobs are grey. I do not see, why this should be a problem.

[Jal]

No chests would be the only way this should ever even be thought of.

[Besual]

<cite>interstellarmatter wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>redders wrote:</cite><blockquote>No chest drops at all would be fine - unless you had a character in your group to whom the mob would not be grey, but then you would just mentor him. </blockquote><p> I don't see regular chest drops as a problem.  99% of it is just vendor trash.  You might as well get something while you are having fun.  It would be kind of stupid for farmers to self-mentor for regular chest drops.  You can farm at 70 and get vendor trash worth x50 more money.</p><p>Also, no lore drops if self-mentored.</p></blockquote> I think I heard this argument already. Let me think when it was... Ah, right, when the mentoring system came up on the test server. No one will farm low / mid level zones when they can kill T7 mobs. And people saying this system will be exploited got told they are so stupid and have no clue and... What happened when the mentoring system in it's first version went live? The farming began and people started whining about it. The only way a self-mentor system could work without to much harm is no chests. Well, may be quest starter drops but these drops should be body loot anyway.

[Sunlei]

<p>   I think that's a fine idea, but as you can see from the other posters they don't want anything to drop for you. Perhaps soe will add the eq1 shroud system someday.</p><p> I do think soe wants people to buy a second account and use that 2nd as a mentoring account. That's what a lot of people do and they get loot too, oh my oh noes. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[phoenixshard]

I hope nothing like that is implemented. It is way too much of a way for exploits to go on.

[JamesRay]

<p>The only "exploit" that could occur is somebody knowing the exact level of the mob they are wanting to defeat and "self mentoring" to a maximum number of levels above it as possible while it still being green to them.</p><p>Other than that, it is much easier to exploit the system as is with a player who is in the ball park range of levels, simply because you can use level 70 escorts up to your target mob.</p><p>Having someone be able to "semi permanently" change their level so that they can fight their way through a dungeon doesn't seem like an exploit to me, as long as they have to do the work once they get there.  Being able to change level on a whim seems much more of an issue.</p><p>Having the change done in a player house seems a pretty good idea, maybe even have the item be a magical "auto biography" and by reflecting on the part of the book you're interested in, you revert to that time of your character's life (level).</p>

[phoenixshard]

<cite>JamesRay wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The only "exploit" that could occur is somebody knowing the exact level of the mob they are wanting to defeat and "self mentoring" to a maximum number of levels above it as possible while it still being green to them.</p><p>Other than that, it is much easier to exploit the system as is with a player who is in the ball park range of levels, simply because you can use level 70 escorts up to your target mob.</p><p>Having someone be able to "semi permanently" change their level so that they can fight their way through a dungeon doesn't seem like an exploit to me, as long as they have to do the work once they get there.  Being able to change level on a whim seems much more of an issue.</p><p>Having the change done in a player house seems a pretty good idea, maybe even have the item be a magical "auto biography" and by reflecting on the part of the book you're interested in, you revert to that time of your character's life (level).</p></blockquote>With as many websites that there are available for walkthroughs, hints, etc. its not hard at all to find the level of the mob in question, nor would it be difficult to simply wade through the greyed out area on your way to that named mob and then upon arrival, level yourself down, kill the mob, take the drop, then back up to your normal level.  Wait for the mob to respawn and then rinse and repeat till your hearts content. If you mean by the level 70 not grouping then simply nuking everything in sight to clear the way, they get no xp for it.  It should be so that if the person they are following around attacks or is attacked by something then combat is locked for that person/group (I wish they would implement this anyway on all mobs so it would prevent mob stealing) then that problem would be rectified, no more escort down to the named  and they blast it for you. If you're able to mentor yourself down to any level, whats to keep that person from changing their level on a whim?  Nothing. Sorry, but there are a lot of exploits that could be done with self mentoring.

[JamesRay]

<p>That is why the change would only be able to be made from your room.</p><p>There is no "on a whim" changing allowed.</p><p>Unless you have out of group help, if you plan on getting treasure, you're going to be within the level range necessary to have to fight through a zone.</p>

[MrJekylls]

<cite>phoenixshard wrote:</cite><blockquote>With as many websites that there are available for walkthroughs, hints, etc. <b>its not hard at all to find the level of the mob in question, nor would it be difficult to simply wade through the greyed out area on your way to that named mob and then upon arrival, level yourself down, kill the mob, take the drop, then back up to your normal level.  Wait for the mob to respawn and then rinse and repeat till your hearts content. </b> If you mean by the level 70 not grouping then simply nuking everything in sight to clear the way, they get no xp for it.  It should be so that if the person they are following around attacks or is attacked by something then combat is locked for that person/group (I wish they would implement this anyway on all mobs so it would prevent mob stealing) then that problem would be rectified, no more escort down to the named  and they blast it for you. If you're able to mentor yourself down to any level, whats to keep that person from changing their level on a whim?  Nothing. Sorry, but there are a lot of exploits that could be done with self mentoring. </blockquote><p>Sorry, I really just have to speak up here. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> From my original post ...</p><ul><li>Once every 7 days <b>while in your house</b> you can lower your level. It will last until the next time you enter your house and do the hokey-pokey (or whatever other game design is decided upon). This would stop the abuse that was probably the first thought that entered your mind - "Great, so now you can waltz through a grey dungeon, lower your level, kill the named, and waltz out." </li></ul><p>I don't see a problem with getting chest drops while your level is lowered. Don't forget ... YOU ARE THAT LEVEL. The second you leave your house, you are now level 25 instead of 70. If you want to go 'farm' that mob, you have to fight your way through the dungeon to get where you need to be. There is no trickery beyond what anybody of the same level can do.</p><p>I dunno, it seems rather foolproof.</p><p>Now admittedly, there are a few named mobs that seem poorly designed. Fallen Gate for example - 3 named mobs in a very tight area all level 25, with every mob around them level 24. So yes, that means you can delevel to 35, head through the greyed out dungeon, and take out those 3 named mobs. But you know what - so can anybody else who is actively level 35. And the rewards you get for a level 25 drop? Probably not worthwhile to sell on the market, especially if you're already higher level.</p><p>And if it is a concern, perhaps SoE can go through and normalize those named mobs so they are the same level as things around them, to prevent the 'waltz and nuke' tactic.</p><p>Honestly though, will there be a problem with farming, given the number of levels in the game right now? Will people delevel to 30 or 40 or 50 once a week just to sit and kill one mob over and over again, on the chance they'll drop an item that they can sell for less money then they could by staying level 70 in upper area zones?</p><p>I see it as a win win situation. You 'become' a lower level once a week. It's as though you never leveled past that point. There are a lot of quests I had to abandon because I just got too high to enjoy finishing them. (too high a level, not too high in general :p)</p><p>The only downside I see is the new ease of completing grey quests. Run through it all at level 70, rack up 40 quest finishes, then downgrade and bing, xp galore.</p><p>Of course, this could be offset by reducing the amount of 'real' xp you get while deleveled. Maybe gain xp at a 50% rate to your actual level. The amount of xp you would get at level 60 is presumably much greater then level 20, and by reducing that xp again by half would not make it fesible to delevel just to level. AA xp would as well be halfed, or perhaps even quartered, to prevent getting easy AA (which is already really easy to get <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).</p><p>Anyhoo, just my additional thoughts to this.</p>

[SerChandos]

<p>I think this is a brilliant idea!</p><p>Having to mentor in your house/apt and staying at that level until you return would remove all the possible exploits.</p><p>Personally, i think this should be the ONLY way to mentor at all! </p><p>Right now the exploits are way too easy. As has been mentioned before...clear the grey trash and only mentor your low level friend/two box when facing the named.</p><p>A friend needs help in BB? I can run to him past all the grey, help him out and be out of there. Time saving? Yes. Exploiting content? Absolutely. If i had to mentor at my apartment i would have to experience the content in the zone AS INTENDED, from zone in to zone out, while assisting my friend.</p><p>I am sorry targeting that perfect level to "mentor down" to, is not an exploit. </p><p>It is basically the same as turning combat xp off to so you can farm RE. That is going on en masse right now. By enabling this option you simply even the playing field.</p><p>Or having a second account with alts pegged at the "perfect level".</p><p>Hell, you could even say the level cap right now is an "exploit" for farming Poets.</p><p>If "mentoring down" was more widely available it would be harder on the farmers because they would be faced with more competition for mobs and the "return" would be lessened because it would be more time consuming and the market would be flooded, driving prices down......again a good thing imho.</p><p>This idea would also help repopulate old world zones. I only play two toons and neither one of them experienced much of the content in Ant or lower content in EoF. A newcomer to the game would be more likely to find me in that zone, and group with me, if i could already be there working on solo quests.</p><p>I am not a farmer. My online time is too precious and limited.</p><p>However, i think this idea is perfect for those of us who levelled too fast and missed a lot of content/quests or who don't raid and are having trouble getting those AP!</p><p>I hope someone is listening.</p>

[Giral]

<p>go to house drop down to level 25</p><p>meet lvl 70 friend at RE , lvl 70 clear's the path, you kill named , get reward .  seems pretty un-fool proff to me <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>You already have mentoring, if you cant be bothered with other people at all, then get a 2nd comp and 2box</p><p>I got a better Idea why doesnt Soe just make leveling take the Correct amount of time, so you stop by passing all the content befor lvl 55 without trying to =  problem solved </p><p>all this idea does is promote MORE power leveling, now everyone can just Grind to endgame, and then self mentor down and be 2x as powerful with there extra skill's, and high level gear's/Masters and just blow thru the low level content , even all the group content Solo .  </p><p> Yeah thats right , all you need to do is Go to Said Group zone when its grey, find the lastname in the zone see his level , say lvl 45 , you go back to your room, Self mentor down to level 50 and Presto Instant Solo Master of the Group Zone, farmin gear and drop's with no chance of death. </p><p>Atleast with mentoring your not chosing a Specific level to be at , you could arange it but it would take Time and co-operation,planing,interaction , and by going to a lower level your helping someone else </p><p>Here's a nother idea,  Just make every dungeon in the game have an option to scale to the level of the player /players in group entering the dungeon,    have a Low level 32 quest in RE< well if you want to finish it at level 70 , then Go enter RE the LVL 70 Version </p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>I too have wished for a similar system but the points made for exploit are valid - turning yourself down to a green level for named mob I can see happening again and again. I do like the add you made with regards to having to do this at your home so when you leave you still have to get there at that level you tuned down to.</p><p>Perhaps another caveat would be the ability to tune to a zone. For instance, you could be in your house and hit the object to change your level. A list of zones would come up that you have discovered (instances not allowed). The object would then determine the average level for the zone (Tune to Thundering Steppes for instance and you might be auto tuned to 26), a portal could then open to send you to the docks in that zone. If you leave that zone, your level reverts back to your normal.</p><p>This could possible curtail the cheating aspect of saying I want to tune to 44 and go solo Varsoon. Thoughts?</p>

[SerChandos]

<cite>Giralus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>go to house drop down to level 25</p><p>meet lvl 70 friend at RE , lvl 70 clear's the path, you kill named , get reward .  seems pretty un-fool proff to me <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff">How is this different than can be done right now? I don't see the down side to this new idea.</span></p><p>You already have mentoring, if you cant be bothered with other people at all, then get a 2nd comp and 2box</p><p><span style="color: #00ffff">Who said they cant be bothered grouping? The point is that it is hard to find groups at lower levels much less find a group doing the exact same quest you want to finish. This would promote grouping because there would be more people spread out through lower zones. Go try and find a pick up group in Rivervale.</span></p><p>I got a better Idea why doesnt Soe just make leveling take the Correct amount of time, so you stop by passing all the content befor lvl 55 without trying to =  problem solved </p><p><span style="color: #00ffff">If i knew about the advantages to turning off combat exp a year ago i would have. The fact that they included AP after both my toons were 55+ didnt help either.</span></p><p>all this idea does is promote MORE power leveling, now everyone can just Grind to endgame, and then self mentor down and be 2x as powerful with there extra skill's, and high level gear's/Masters and just blow thru the low level content , even all the group content Solo . </p><p><span style="color: #00ffff">Power levelers with power level no matter what. That is a type of gamer and a mindset. They can do whatever they want. Why limit those of us who want to experience or even re-experience a zone? Personally, i get depressed when i run through a grey CL and remember all the fun i had hunting there, wishing i could recapture it a bit. </span></p><p> Yeah thats right , all you need to do is Go to Said Group zone when its grey, find the lastname in the zone see his level , say lvl 45 , you go back to your room, Self mentor down to level 50 and Presto Instant Solo Master of the Group Zone, farmin gear and drop's with no chance of death. </p><p><span style="color: #00ffff">Again, how is this different than what is going on right now with people pegging characters at certain levels to farm areas? People who are gonna do that are already doing that. If there are more people doing this, that is a good thing. Competition is good.</span></p><p>Atleast with mentoring your not chosing a Specific level to be at , you could arange it but it would take Time and co-operation,planing,interaction , and by going to a lower level your helping someone else </p><p><span style="color: #00ffff">Under this new system you could still do that. Mentor to an individual from your room. Or better yet, I mentor from my room to 20 and do solo quests in Ant. I find a noob that needs help and is only 15. I can mentor down further to help them. Everyone wins.</span></p><p>Here's a nother idea,  Just make every dungeon in the game have an option to scale to the level of the player /players in group entering the dungeon,    have a Low level 32 quest in RE< well if you want to finish it at level 70 , then Go enter RE the LVL 70 Version </p><p><span style="color: #00ffff">I think scalable dungeons is something a lot of people have been asking for a long time.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff">Hell, make scalable overland zones! I think it would be cool to run through the Ant quests with everything jumped up to level 70.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00ffff">Never gonna happen, but we can dream.</span></p></blockquote>

[Dasein]

It seems far too much effort is being put into how to prevent people from 'exploiting' something, and hardly any is being put into making a fun game. One of EQ2's biggest design flaws is that so much effort is spent on things like lore and no-trade items, as a way to stop exploiting or preserve some mythical balance that it really detracts from the fun of playing. The mentoring system is one, if not the best aspect of EQ2. Yes, this makes it easier for some people to get to named encounters, but so what/ It also makes it possible for people to play with their friends and family far more readily, and that is much more important, both from a design standpoint and business standpoint.

[Siogai]

I think EQ has a lot in common with the Disney parks.... you aren't meant to see everything the first time through. Though I only relatively recently started playing, my addiction to Korean grinders did me a disservice until I figured out I could turn off combat XP.  I blew through the first 30 levels on 3 or 4 characters within my first month of game-play.  Then I settled on the character I liked the most, and turned off XP for awhile, until I'd done all I wanted to do in that range of zones, then levelled up and moved on to the next area. I think the idea is that you will need multiple characters to "do it all".

[jikken]

why not remove the greyed out thing completly so its possible to do quests and eve have loot from the monsters there would be much more fun specialy for new players theres no chance they gonna change it couse it to much time saving?

[Razan89]

I have a question about this system.  Whats the point? I'm not going to mentor down to 30 because I want some phat lewt from Varsoons while that same evening I'm heading to EH.  People would abuse this to farm items for alts, as a 70 mentored to 30 is in almost every case stronger than just a plain 30.    You can complete the lower level quests anyway on your higher level, sure they will be grey but you shouldn't need anything from that tier anyway.  If you wanted to go re-experience dungeon crawling, you'd have to find a group that level anyway and you could just mentor. I'm failing to see the significance of such an option being available.

[SerChandos]

Tierax@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>I have a question about this system.  Whats the point?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">To experience as much challenging content as possible. Challenging = Not greyed out.</span> I'm not going to mentor down to 30 because I want some phat lewt from Varsoons while that same evening I'm heading to EH.  </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Then don't do it.</span></p><p>People would abuse this to farm items for alts, </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">People already do this. This is why so much loot is No-Trade.</span> </p><p>as a 70 mentored to 30 is in almost every case stronger than just a plain 30.  </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">This is more of an impact on mentoring as it currently exists. It cheapens content for the person being mentored. </span>   You can complete the lower level quests anyway on your higher level, sure they will be grey but you shouldn't need anything from that tier anyway.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">I dont want to do this for the loot. I want to do this to experience the content and finish the quests.</span></p><p>  If you wanted to go re-experience dungeon crawling, you'd have to find a group that level anyway and you could just mentor.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">Good luck finding a pickup group in RV or how about the Sewers! Hell that was hard even when people did AQs.</span> I'm failing to see the significance of such an option being available.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000">So people can enjoy the game more.</span> </p></blockquote>

[Syndic]

I think this is a brilliant idea and something that would not be too hard to implement.  They already have the mentoring code in place, rather than mentor another person you mentor an item in your house.  That item has the ability to change levels. I love to do quests, I've leveled to 70 pretty much on quests, started up an alt on my second account and have mentored that character through out it's life and still haven't completed the quests in many of the zones.  Was thinking just recently will have to start another character so that I can mentor again and go through a 3rd time to catch more of them.  This would certainly make it more convenient. BTW if a player makes themselves level 30 to go through a dungeon to kill a named don't they deserve that chest just as much as a real level 30 who went through the zone to get the chest. If SOE really wanted to stop farmers who hunt in green zones Master chest drop chances should be balanced by the colour of the mob. Grey no chance, Green very low chance, Blue moderate chance, etc etc . I would love to see this implemented.  1 would hope it would revitalise the lower to mid areas of the world for many.  Much better solution than coming out with new races that race through it so fast the impact is minimal and very temporary.

[Krelor]

<cite>jikken wrote:</cite><blockquote>why not remove the greyed out thing completly so its possible to do quests and eve have loot from the monsters there would be much more fun specialy for new players theres no chance they gonna change it couse it to much time saving? </blockquote><p> It used to be the case as it is now - that quests greyed out.</p><p>Then, they changed it so that no quest would grey out but would stay green and at least give some tiny amount of xp and reward. </p><p>What used to happen would be that you're level 55 and the quest you had was from level 10. The quest stays green, any mobs you have to kill for that quest are grey (and they themselves offer no xp/chests of course being grey) but you still get some small xp and whatever reward for the quest itself. Of course, the level difference meant that the bigger the gap between your level and the low green quest meant less xp.</p><p>So it DID used to be the way you are asking for - then they changed it back so that quests greyed out again. </p>

[jikken]

so why did they change it back? and im talkin about monsters droppin loot to even if ur x-lvls higher what makes more sence to me. it would make the game much more intresting finaly being able to farm that nice totaly empty zones and get rewarded for doin it. wats wrong with being able to kill a named on ur own and get a fabled even if ur much higher lvl? its nice there is very hard content made for groups but im more the solo type player and i wish the game was not so group/guild/friend based....

[Alienor]

Tierax@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>I have a question about this system.  Whats the point? I'm not going to mentor down to 30 because I want some phat lewt from Varsoons while that same evening I'm heading to EH.  People would abuse this to farm items for alts, as a 70 mentored to 30 is in almost every case stronger than just a plain 30.    You can complete the lower level quests anyway on your higher level, sure they will be grey but you shouldn't need anything from that tier anyway.  If you wanted to go re-experience dungeon crawling, you'd have to find a group that level anyway and you could just mentor. I'm failing to see the significance of such an option being available. </blockquote>I would do this for achievement points

[Bakual]

<cite>Alienor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tierax@Nagafen wrote: I would do this for achievement points </blockquote><p>Which would be the only reason for this whole thing. And it would make farming APs way to easy.</p><p>As someone already pointed out: Everyone will do the quests to the point where they can be finished, collecting as many as possible. Then mentor down and finish them and get AP's for it. It <b>would</b> be different from what it is today because now you have to search for someone to mentor and you are limited by some rules, you can't walk over the whole planet and finish quests everywhere (maybe even kill the last mob needed for a quest). It's much harder today to farm APs this way, it's such a pity that most people don't bother doing it. And this is good in my opinion.</p>

[Krelor]

<cite>jikken wrote:</cite><blockquote>so why did they change it back? and im talkin about monsters droppin loot to even if ur x-lvls higher what makes more sence to me. it would make the game much more intresting finaly being able to farm that nice totaly empty zones and get rewarded for doin it. wats wrong with being able to kill a named on ur own and get a fabled even if ur much higher lvl? its nice there is very hard content made for groups but im more the solo type player and i wish the game was not so group/guild/friend based.... </blockquote><p> I think I got it wrong. I was looking back through the game update notes to see and yes, grey quests did not give xp at one point and then changed to be seen as green and did give xp.</p><p>After that, when they changed it back to go grey in your journal, the game update note says it's still supposed to give xp (taken from game update #30 notes), although to be honest I haven't paid close enough attention to the xp bar to see this or not on grey quests:</p><p>"<b>Quests that are significantly below your level will turn gray in your quest journal. This is a display change only. You still gain the small amount of experience from them as always. Quests that are green will now also be candidates for Achievement experience gain.</b>"</p><p>As to your second point which is about being able to get loot from a named that is far below your level - there are many, many arguments against that although I DO understand that you mean well enough with regard to your comment of being able to do this in totally "empty zones".</p><p>Perhaps you hanker after more challenging solo content that is not meant for group work as a solo type of player.  Personally speaking, on my conjuror - I've had a decent enough time being able to go solo when the need arises. There's a decent enough amount of content there that proves challenging and is satisfying to beat even when mobs are several above your level (non heroic).</p>

[phoenixshard]

<cite>jikken wrote:</cite><blockquote>so why did they change it back? and im talkin about monsters droppin loot to even if ur x-lvls higher what makes more sence to me. it would make the game much more intresting finaly being able to farm that nice totaly empty zones and get rewarded for doin it. wats wrong with being able to kill a named on ur own and get a fabled even if ur much higher lvl? its nice there is very hard content made for groups but im more the solo type player and i wish the game was not so group/guild/friend based.... </blockquote>The problem with what you are suggesting with being able to kill a named and get a chest drop when it is greyed out is pretty simple actually.  If they didn't do that, you'd have level 70's sitting in Stormhold, Fallen Gates, etc. waiting for the named to pop, one shot it take the drop and then move on to the next named.  The mobs are greyed out to give those within that mob's level range a chance to be the ones that are actually fighting the mob, not someone that can one shot it. EQ2 couldn't really get much more solo friendly though.  That is how I mostly play and I have no problems with finding things to fight and can generally handle ^^^ heroics and named within 5-6 levels of me with no problem.

[Kellin]

<p>My personal way of lowering my level so I can experience challenging content and gain AA is to roll an alt.  Mentoring isn't the same; you're so overpowered for the level it can't be compared.</p>

[jikken]

well ok what u say is probebly true lvl 70s camping named and everything would be to eazy but isnt that already happening in a way if a lvl 70 mentors a lower lvl? whats the point a lvl 70 kills the same named over and over again...whats the drop from a named? mostly items with x-lvls lower then even the named monster is make the droprate much lower and not so specific bound to just 1 named.....

[phoenixshard]

<cite>jikken wrote:</cite><blockquote>well ok what u say is probebly true lvl 70s camping named and everything would be to eazy but isnt that already happening in a way if a lvl 70 mentors a lower lvl? whats the point a lvl 70 kills the same named over and over again...whats the drop from a named? mostly items with x-lvls lower then even the named monster is make the droprate much lower and not so specific bound to just 1 named..... </blockquote>No, its not happening at all like that.  When the level 70 mentors, they become that level.  They have their higher level spells, items, etc, but they are at least brought down to a level to where the mobs in the zone can actually kill the 70th level character.  What you are suggesting gives no risk to the 70th level character at all.   Some of the items that some of the nameds drop do sell for a high amount of gold/plat, especially some of the master spells.   Stormhold and Fallen Gate were just 2 examples, a level 70 is going to easily be able to handle any of the nameds short of the ones in T6.  Giving them boxes for doing so is not a smart thing to do. As for drop rates.  If its within your level range and it drops from a mob that isn't greyed out, you should be rewarded for that.  You don't fix what isn't broken.

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Bakual wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alienor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tierax@Nagafen wrote: I would do this for achievement points </blockquote><p>Which would be the only reason for this whole thing. And it would make farming APs way to easy.</p><p>As someone already pointed out: Everyone will do the quests to the point where they can be finished, collecting as many as possible. Then mentor down and finish them and get AP's for it. It <b>would</b> be different from what it is today because now you have to search for someone to mentor and you are limited by some rules, you can't walk over the whole planet and finish quests everywhere (maybe even kill the last mob needed for a quest). It's much harder today to farm APs this way, it's such a pity that most people don't bother doing it. And this is good in my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>If you are having to mentor an item in your house as the OP suggested how do you think this could be accomplished?? The moment you walk out the door of your house you are the mentored level. You are going to have to fight your way through the zone(s). The only exploit would be the one which exist currently - having higher level toons clear it for you and then you make the kill and collect the loot.</p><p>One more piece I would like to see implemented to this suggestion - if you are mentored down from the house item you can not be mentored. This would keep the higher levels from clearing a zone and mentoring down to an articially mentored down, group up and share in the chance for No-Trade items.</p>

[Tallika_Runwithbears]

this just seems like a way to farm named mobs solo without having to hunt someone down to mentor your level to.   It's LAME and trying to convince others you have a NOBLE reason for suggesting this is weaksause.

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Tallika_Runwithbears wrote:</cite><blockquote>this just seems like a way to farm named mobs solo without having to hunt someone down to mentor your level to.   It's LAME and trying to convince others you have a NOBLE reason for suggesting this is weaksause. </blockquote><p> I disagree. There is a much easier way to farm consistently in using a separate account which I am not about to detail and make the problem any worse. If someone wants to drop their level to work on lower levels of content and willing to do it from their home, so be it. They walk out the door as a level 25 headed somewhere they still have to get there in one piece. Much different than the current system allows.</p><p>This proposal has much less potential for exploit than the current mentoring system and definitely adds back in a lot of fun factor.</p><p>Quit trolling and be constructive.</p>

[Giral]

<p>     </p><p>     Who's going to Self mentor themselves down to a level where it wont be possible for them to complete the quest(s) ? ?    Exactly,  there going to Self mentor to a lvl that they are 100% sure that even solo they will be able to complete whatever it is they want solo/Group content. </p><p>That's Godmode </p>

[YeldarbSpiritbla]

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tallika_Runwithbears wrote:</cite><blockquote>this just seems like a way to farm named mobs solo without having to hunt someone down to mentor your level to.   It's LAME and trying to convince others you have a NOBLE reason for suggesting this is weaksause. </blockquote><p> I disagree. There is a much easier way to farm consistently in using a separate account which I am not about to detail and make the problem any worse. If someone wants to drop their level to work on lower levels of content and willing to do it from their home, so be it. They walk out the door as a level 25 headed somewhere they still have to get there in one piece. Much different than the current system allows.</p><p>This proposal has much less potential for exploit than the current mentoring system and definitely adds back in a lot of fun factor.</p><p>Quit trolling and be constructive.</p></blockquote><p>No, he's completely right. This is only an attempt to make farming easier. It does not improve gameplay at all. There is no argument yet how this improves gameplay or makes it "more fun". It is only a way to "pick an optimal level" to farm, that's it. </p><p>BTW: Buying another PC, and another account, and creating all new characters IS NOT in any way easier than just flipping a switch and poof, you're the perfect level. </p>

[MrJekylls]

YeldarbSpiritblade wrote: <blockquote><p>No, he's completely right. This is only an attempt to make farming easier. It does not improve gameplay at all. There is no argument yet how this improves gameplay or makes it "more fun". It is only a way to "pick an optimal level" to farm, that's it. </p></blockquote><p> No, he's completely wrong, and so are you. THIS is not an attempt to make farming easier. You know, given I'm the original poster of this idea, I think it's fair to say I'm the only one who can say what *I* intended with this post.</p><p>I'm not going to get too worked up over this, but I despise posts like the one above. Not because it disagrees with my idea. Everybody is entitled to their opinion after all, and a lot of good points have been made against it. Plus the best solutions are ALWAYS the ones that take into account the negatives and find a way to make them not so negative. You can only have that through health discussion.</p><p>Nope, the reason I hate "YeldarbSpiritblade's" comment is because he or she has looked at the idea and taken the most negative interpretation of it; that you only support this idea if you are a horrible farmer looking to cheat the system; and imply that if you like or support the idea, that can be the only possible reason why.</p><p>I can't speak for anybody else, but I'm fairly confident I can speak for myself. So let's go through those points:</p><p>1. This is only an attempt to make farming easier.</p><p>No. Perhaps a consequence of this idea is that certain people will use it to make farming easier, but this is not ONLY an attempt to make farming easier. To suggest otherwise insults me and insults people who see the good in the idea, not the negative. </p><p>2. It does not improve gameplay at all. There is no argument yet how this improves gameplay or makes it "more fun".</p><p>It might be argued that the lower level game will see an influx of lower level classes as people 'delevel' to re-experience the game. By the same token, you are correct that it doesn't "improve gameplay". It does nothing specific to gameplay; no new spells are added, no new raid zones, etc. But for the individual able to become a new level and perhaps do old favourite dungeons at an appropriate level, or do old quests without them being greyed out, then it could be said the game has become more 'fun' for them.</p><p>5. It is only a way to "pick an optimal level" to farm, that's it.</p><p>Take any idea, distill it to the most negative interpretation, and say that's all anybody gets out of it. Pretty [Removed for Content]' negative attitude to take. Is it so hard to believe that people enjoy playing the game at an appropriate level without having a nefarious 'must farm l00t' goal in mind?</p><hr /><p>Ok, a few comments. First, YES it is possible that someone can now more easily delevel and farm stuff. Of course, if that's all everybody would do, then by implementing this change you'd see 15 people of a specific level sitting around a named mob spot waiting for it to pop. Because we allllll know that's the only thing people would use this for. So suddenly everybody is a lower level and everybody is farming the same thing. Probably not all that fun.</p><p>Quests would be a big one. What would stop someone from completing 40 quests at level 70, deleveling to 20, and completing them all? Perhaps by 'resetting' the quest journal every time you delevel, so you have to get and complete a quest during the same period you are a lower level?</p><p>I still like this idea, and think it would be workable. But yes, the devs would have to consider all the bad things that people will do with this system, because like Yeldarb noticed, it only takes 1 person finding an exploit in the system to make it seem like everybody is scum.</p>

[Giral]

<p>ok so let's add in some counter's to make it not so easy to farm with this idea</p><p> a) when self mentored all your gear becomes 10% less effective then Mastercrafted gear of that level </p><p> b) all your spells revert to adpt 1 quality</p><p>c) you can't use any high level spell's or abilities </p><p>d) you can't use any abilities from AA's sub-class or class specific , and any permanent buff's/skills are cancelled upon mentoring </p><p>e) you cant use any god abilities </p><p>f) when self mentoring You get a drop down menu that show's you the Highest Posible level you can be to go into Any dungeon when self mentored , Example you want to go Runnyeye lets say the hardest name in the zone is level 35 so you can only enter Runnyeye if your 5 levels lower then that so you would have to be level 30 to enter Runny eye </p><p> Now all that seem's Unfair ,  but when you think of a " Brand New Player ", with NO alt's  No coin,wearing Dropped,quested, and maybe 1 or 2 pieces of mastergear, and possibly only had purchased eq2 and has No Aa's from Kos or Eof ,  and if they wanted to Go to Runnyeye as they Slowly progressed thru the Game, doing level appropriate content that would be Challanging they would start going in when they were level 30 in a group of 2 or more Becuase its a group zone. </p><p> now after you take a player and strip him/her down to be   "Equal"    with a New player of that level ,make sure they have NO option to Farm a Group zone becuase of the Level restriction to self-mentored player's,decreased gear/etc,,,         How many player's are going to wan't to Self mentor? </p><p> you already have Mentoring that allow's people to De-level to any level , and still utlize All there abilities so how many people are going to Self mentor in there home with all the restrictions that shoudl go into place ? </p><p> so again the Self mentoring idea is just a waste of programing time to give the few extremely Anti-social people in the game a way to never interact with other player's for anything,   and with all the retriction's on Self mentoring, if they couldn't use the ability to Solo(not just farm Just SOLO) in any dungeon, then  Self mentoring would go the way of the Doo-doo bird very quickly after the initial fun of just tryin it out faded away .   and you would be left with a couple hundred people in the Entire game that would self mentor just to play around in the Outside realm(No dungeons unless grouped), and a even less that would self-mentor to try to group at a low-level when it would be 100X easier just to mentor someone else </p><p>Just FYI, i myself would self mentor if all the above restrictions were in place, but i love Challenging myself, and from what i have been told on the forum's is that "most people are risk adverse,and will take the path of least resistance Always"       i myself could play in Re at lvl 30 with crap gear and adept one's,with all the restrictions, and have a Good time,      and i already Have with Untwinked/Roleplay alt's in mish-mash gear in pick up group's.  (sadly you blow thru the zone, and out level it in less then a week,unless you disable combat exp,and i myself dont believe that exp should be gained so fast and disable combat exp should be a requirement to enjoy the game,but Soe thinks it should so... meh) </p><p>anyway after all is said and done. this would be the biggest waste of programing time, as a miniscule amount of the player base would use this feature rarely, when they could just Mentor someone 100X easier without all the restrictions.s </p>

[Bakual]

<cite>Valdaglerion wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bakual wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Alienor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Tierax@Nagafen wrote: I would do this for achievement points </blockquote><p>Which would be the only reason for this whole thing. And it would make farming APs way to easy.</p><p>As someone already pointed out: Everyone will do the quests to the point where they can be finished, collecting as many as possible. Then mentor down and finish them and get AP's for it. It <b>would</b> be different from what it is today because now you have to search for someone to mentor and you are limited by some rules, you can't walk over the whole planet and finish quests everywhere (maybe even kill the last mob needed for a quest). It's much harder today to farm APs this way, it's such a pity that most people don't bother doing it. And this is good in my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>If you are having to mentor an item in your house as the OP suggested how do you think this could be accomplished?? The moment you walk out the door of your house you are the mentored level. You are going to have to fight your way through the zone(s). The only exploit would be the one which exist currently - having higher level toons clear it for you and then you make the kill and collect the loot.</p><p>One more piece I would like to see implemented to this suggestion - if you are mentored down from the house item you can not be mentored. This would keep the higher levels from clearing a zone and mentoring down to an articially mentored down, group up and share in the chance for No-Trade items.</p></blockquote>The point is: If you do the quests to the point where they can be finished and then mentor down, you only have to do the trade in. Most of the time you don't have to walk through a dungeon for the trade in, the NPCs that give the quests are at places that are safe to reach. I talked about quests, not named mobs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As the OP also talked about quests, and not farming masterloot <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kellin]

<p>The problem here isn't what YOU'D do with the ability, it's what everyone else would do with it.</p><p>Even if you solo all the time, you have to remember you aren't the only player in the game.</p><p>The devs always have to consider how any feature in the game can be abused, and with self mentoring, it's crystal clear that there are many ways this can be abused to the detriment of other players.</p><p>Also, let's remember something here.  Dungeons aren't meant to be soloed.  Solo content is mostly limited to outdoor zones.</p>

[Zehl_Ice-Fire]

As someone who 2 boxes and does what she can to mentor to ungray every quest I turn in... I like this. I was thinking about NPC mentor bots, which you could only use to turn in a quest if you have it in your journal or to do a quest etc...

[adolf102]

I very like idea of self mentoring as well. The thought to allow it only at your home is brilliant too! Prevent the abuse of the system. Hopefully we will get it at some point <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[jeorat]

I'd love to be able to self mentor too.  Due to time constraints I'm mostly soloing, sometimes raiding but haven't been in a pickup group for like 6 months.  I got a lv 70 char with lots of AA points to go before I hit the cap, and I think I've done most of the solo quests available to me in EoF now. It would be really really nice to mentor down so I can do more quests for real AAxp, or play zones I didn't visit much when I was leveling my char. I think chests should drop, but perhaps only the first time you kill a named like the AAxp system works now to prevent farming ? I've started a few alts of course, but I like my ranger too much <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />