Should we be asking for more?

[joebyrdw]

<p>The number one thing I have noticed about the assassin forums since I have been an assassin is that I very rarely see any requests for more, in fact I don't see assassins asking for anything on the other forums either. This is something I really like, although lessons learned from being a SWG commando (we had the same issue of keeping to our selves and not making a fuss about anything) makes me think sometimes you have to shout a bit to be heard. </p><p>I routinely hear of rouges doing very near predators DPS whilst still bringing much more utility to groups and raids. </p><p>My question is this how long is it before we are unwanted to fill our supposed position. Given the choice how many raid leaders would choose a predator for his last DPS slot over an equivilent rouge.  Is the extra 200-300dps from the pred enough to seperate the classes.  I dont think so. </p><p>I think there should be a little more seperation. I think rouges are perfect where they are but I think we predators should be bumped up a bit to really fill our niche unlike anyother.</p><p>What do you guys and gals think? Should we be asking for more?</p>

[grish]

I dont know really, if we get to many group/raid buffs/debuffs we cross into rouge/bard teritory. I do agree we do need some flare or minor tweak of some sort, something unique just to us. I used to play muds and a few neat things the thives could do were: Fasttalk:USe your charisma to make the mob stop attacking (brief stun, maybe a memwipe talk your way out of aggro or even a big dehate on someone else, be able to talk them out of hating that person) Weave:Use some dextrous movements and weave some mobs together, the end result 2 mobs of one encounter beating on each other. I would looove to see some fun abilities like that, even if not useable in raids to have some group fluff. Other than that I would like to be able to transfer hate within the raid and not just to my group, it would make getting the annoying ranger in group 4 dead so much easier =). I also wouldnt mind if honed reflexes or deadly assault affected the entire group for the duration. That could make the assassin very nice for the dps groups.

[khufure]

If by predator you mean assassin, you are right in your statements.  Rangers, however, are the top dps in this expansion.

[joebyrdw]

<cite>khufure wrote:</cite><blockquote>If by predator you mean assassin, you are right in your statements.  Rangers, however, are the top dps in this expansion. </blockquote><p> Maby I haven't played with a good ranger yet, but I have yet to have one come close to me on parses group or raid. I diddn't do nearly as well personally when I was ranger either (I betrayed about a month ago). I was only lvl 61 when I betrayed but noticed a heavy improvment after switching. This could very well be caused by the diffrence in equipment or my personal play style (went from zerk to ranger to assassin). </p><p>If rangers really are that much higher in DPS then A: I stand corrected that assassin not predator that needs an adjustment, and B: bumping us up to equal DPS as them would be the ideal solution.  </p><p> On a side not how much on average do you see rangers out doing us? </p><p>I thinking 150-300 more DPS would be perfect. </p>

[grish]

I would agree, I have yet to meat a ranger that can out parse me, however I have yet to raid with one that has the end game bows or legendary arrows. So I am fully aware that plays a HUGE factor.

[HellRaiserXX]

<p>The way arrows work really gives rangers a huge advantage, its a mechanics error much like DoF. No class should have near 100% to hit chance regardless of the effects on the mob.  If they choose to correct it than it will bring their DPS even with assassin DPS.  From my experience rogues cant parse like an assassin.  We destroy the rogues in my guild, now thats not to say its not completely different in other guilds. Perspective tends to color things differently for different people.  Just the few posts here show that, you guys haven't seen a ranger own, while our Rangers dominate by a lot.  I dont think theres anyway to accurately measure the current situation and for the most part there isnt a whole lot we really need.</p><p>All I want is no stealth breaks, [Removed for Content] any fancy fluff stuff, fix the stealth breaking problem and I am perfectly happy.  Thats the one thing that makes me wish I was playing something else sometimes. </p>

[Mithrandi]

i dont give a [Removed for Content] about any kinky buffs, group buffs, useless funny crap or something like that. All i want is pure plain DPS. We are design as top DPS and have no outher use. So give me the CA's to fulfill this role. ah yeah and fix that Hatetransfer crap - give us the best  Transfer in game and then make the Master Book impossible to find is just annoying.

[joebyrdw]

HellRaiserXX wrote: <blockquote><p>All I want is no stealth breaks, [I cannot control my vocabulary] any fancy fluff stuff, fix the stealth breaking problem and I am perfectly happy.  Thats the one thing that makes me wish I was playing something else sometimes. </p></blockquote><p>This is a bug? I have noticed my stealth breaking alot for apparently no reason or being unable to go into stealth when using survillence and masked attack. I was thinking i was just missing getting hit or something. It is really annoying as it happens quite regularly. If i had known it was a bug I would have been /bug n it.</p><p>"I dont give a [I cannot control my vocabulary] about any kinky buffs, group buffs, useless funny crap or something like that. All i want is pure plain DPS.  " (Quoted from mith)</p><p>This was my intention with the thread I don't feel we need any utility past our hate transfer or our apply poision. Pure DPS is the niche I was referring to. </p>

[Tolwynn]

I am happy as is. I dont want to be a utility class. My aggro xfer alone is more than enough utility. The only thing I would like to see, is to give assassins a deathblow similar to the inquisitor verdict. Unlike Finishing Blow, when the mob was at x% life, it would just finish them off outright. Yes I know, even if it was set 2% on a raid mob, that would be one powerful hit, but we are assassins. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[HellRaiserXX]

<cite>joebyrdws6 wrote:</cite><blockquote>HellRaiserXX wrote: <blockquote><p>All I want is no stealth breaks, [I cannot control my vocabulary] any fancy fluff stuff, fix the stealth breaking problem and I am perfectly happy.  Thats the one thing that makes me wish I was playing something else sometimes. </p></blockquote><p>This is a bug? I have noticed my stealth breaking alot for apparently no reason or being unable to go into stealth when using survillence and masked attack. I was thinking i was just missing getting hit or something. It is really annoying as it happens quite regularly. If i had known it was a bug I would have been /bug n it.</p><p>I dont give a [I cannot control my vocabulary] about any kinky buffs, group buffs, useless funny crap or something like that. All i want is pure plain DPS.  </p><p>This was my intention with the thread I don't feel we need any utility past our hate transfer or our apply poision. Pure DPS is the niche I was referring to. </p></blockquote> Not necesarily a bug, I spose it could be called a bug, definately shouldnt happen.  Basically there are certain procs and wards and stuff that will break stealth if triggered or tick out while we are in stealth.

[joebyrdw]

<p>I think I may have been misunderstood. We wouldn't be asking for more utility, we would be asking for more DPS capability to further seperate us from the rouges. </p>

[Kaiser Sigma]

Rangers don't really have an edge over us. It' just that bow / arrow mechanics give them an advantage, however that is supposed to be fixed next GU. More dps? More dps equals nerf. We are where we should be. Rogues can have spikes to reach our standard dps, then again, so we can have spikes to leave them far behind. Only thing I'd ever ask about my class is better skills for soloability that do not involve compromising my raid AA selection.

[mariola]

<p>I agree we need just some more dps, or, better, some little enhancements that allow us to do more DPS.</p><p>As first I quote Tolwynn, we should have a verdict-like CA (maybe from aa): we are assassin, we kill!</p><p>Then I also would like unbreakable stealth to be sure to unload correctly our firepower</p><p>And, last, hate transfer through raid, not just in group, so if there are more assassin in the raid (in our guild this always happens) we can stay all in the same group with the best buffers.</p><p>Another couple of thing, I would like to be able to use our two area effects without stealth or position, this would help a lot in solo fights against linked mobs that see invis. </p><p>Also Exacting aa should be more effective shortening more the reuse time of the CA (say to 2-3 min), and exacting should affect also the CAs with one exact minute of reuse time, this should be perfect for raids.</p>

[HellRaiserXX]

Karel@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote>Rangers don't really have an edge over us. It' just that bow / arrow mechanics give them an advantage, however that is supposed to be fixed next GU. More dps? More dps equals nerf. We are where we should be. Rogues can have spikes to reach our standard dps, then again, so we can have spikes to leave them far behind. <b>Only thing I'd ever ask about my class is better skills for soloability that do not involve compromising my raid AA selection</b>. </blockquote> what is your raid AA selection just curious. The way I went seems to get me the best overall DPS and also is great for soloing. 21 Tricks 21 Poisons 3 Deadly Focus 5 Exacting.  Id of liked to have been able to put 5 in Cloaked assault, but just wasnt possible

[Kaiser Sigma]

The usual for KoS. EoF went for on 21 Bleed, 21 on Poisons and the remaining 8 on Physicality to get Enhanced Exacting. I know the "benefit" gotten out of Bleed is pathetic...but I'll take any extra % to anything that'll help me do more dps. I'm a junkie. However the only benefit I saw in Tricks for soloing was Enhance: Freezing Strike. In all honesty I'd have traded my guildmates' kidneys for a line that includes slight buffs to defense or AoE attack like the stuff in Wis / Sta of the KoS trees. Oh and btw..to the poster above Raina, Exacting is fine as it is. 2 minutes 20 seconds with 5 points on Enhance + Jester's Cap = Win~.

[HellRaiserXX]

I couldnt pay our troub for Jesters Cap

[-=Hoss=-]

<cite>grish wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont know really, if we get to many group/raid buffs/debuffs we cross into rouge/bard teritory. I do agree we do need some flare or minor tweak of some sort, something unique just to us. I used to play muds and a few neat things the thives could do were: Fasttalk:USe your charisma to make the mob stop attacking (brief stun, maybe a memwipe talk your way out of aggro or even a big dehate on someone else, be able to talk them out of hating that person) Weave:Use some dextrous movements and weave some mobs together, the end result 2 mobs of one encounter beating on each other. I would looove to see some fun abilities like that, even if not useable in raids to have some group fluff. Other than that I would like to be able to transfer hate within the raid and not just to my group, it would make getting the annoying ranger in group 4 dead so much easier =). I also wouldnt mind if honed reflexes or deadly assault affected the entire group for the duration. That could make the assassin very nice for the dps groups.</blockquote>Allright, old mudders in the heezy.  In my muds, the thieves primary abilities were a backstab that had a chance to insta any mob, and a disarm.  Not sure how the disarm would work unless it was just a debuff.  Agree 100% with everyone who wants to transfer hate within the raid, in addition, they need to make the hate transfers stackable.  -h

[Kaiser Sigma]

<cite>HellRaiserXX wrote:</cite><blockquote>I couldnt pay our troub for Jesters Cap</blockquote>You don't pay for buffs. You threaten people and use a lot of Fs and variations of the original F~. =D

[Jayad]

we've stopped asking for stuff because it's been pointless. Exhibit A: our EOF AAs

[HellRaiserXX]

<p>Im actually pretty happy with my EoF AA setup cant really see how they couldve been much better and we have been over all of that before, woulda been nice if EB was more useful. What needs to happen more so is to make weapon skills more meaningful so we could actually hit better. Theres also +melee dmg similar to the Bolt of Energy for mages on some of the PvP gear, but for some reason it failed to make it to PvE and there is a definate lack of items with +slash while lo and behold the two best DWs in the game atm are slashers and the lack of +haste items that are stackable.  75-80% if you have maxed skills which means your missing around 1/4 of the time, thats a lot of dmg if your using the slower weapons.</p><p>Getting just straight dmg from AAs and such would only frost over the problem which is inadequecies in the game mechanics themselves, much like a big reason for rangers doing the DPS they are is due to a game mechanic giving them an unfair advantage, while the class itself still could use some help. Our damage itself is fine how it is, what needs to happen now is to have better ways of improving that dmg through gear and such.</p>

[Traxor]

<p>I think if a dev would read a post about assassins wanting a whole lot more , nothing will get done. Problem is , A lot of new things, like double attack , more range, Hit bonus % increasers, newer arrows, were added along with very powerful bows this expansion. A lot of this new stuff hasnt been balanced. I know most havent played with a good ranger and dissagree completely. Assassins can do very good dps but agreed it takes lots of skill. I get [Removed for Content] also when i do 2900 dps without using like decap or anything and a ranger goes like 3900 dps with maybe only using Focus aim -_-.</p><p>I have went 4k on the second named in FT, although i might have used a mirical to make my backstab chain crit =p w/e. I won. I think the biggest problem is . Regardless if a ranger is beating an assassin. A bard using a bow and kiliji and getting a higher hit percentage then an assassin just spells b-r-o-k-e-n. Up the melee hit % of assassins also. Assassins wont beat rangers and thats not what we really should be aiming for at this point really =(. I see rangers getting 100% hit percent with tenderwood arrows on fights like PHH and destroying any hopes of out dpsing one on a single target fight like that.</p><p>really wish Posion Seeds of the Tender were hemotoxin like, and were affected by our quickned tick AA. It would really help</p>

[Siclone]

<p>They are "fixing" the way current arrows are working so we will see how Rangers are after that.</p><p>true, most rangers dont know how to max there DPS but the ones that do, can out dps an assassin at the moment</p><p> I think Assassin's should ask for more.  In raid guilds there DPS is matched by, 6 or so other classes some of which have all kinds of neat utility and solo ablity.  If assassin is not going to have a significant advantage in dps then why do other classes have significant advantage in other areas?</p><p> I think there sould be an ability that is Assassin only, and not to beat a dead horse, apply posion is the only thing a Swashie cant do.  and who really cares about apply posion.  Swashies can do 15 things and assassin cant do, why should not assassins be able to do something other then apply posion.</p><p>haveing said that, the most recent comment coming from a "dev" about assassins, said "Assassins are in great shape".   So dont expect much anytime soon.  </p><p>Basically he followed that up saying in groups assassins are doing more damage that he sees all the numbers and so forth.  Which of course to me dont mean anything, things die so fast in groups, some of the dps classes are doing other roles cause they can ect ect.   </p>

[Jayad]

<p>I'd offer you another horse to beat, but I'm all out. Seriously though, I do agree with you, but unfortunatly our opinion matters little. Rangers and assassins have the least amount of utility in the game, so you'd think they do the most dps. Rangers are in that catagory now, but assassins aren't. Also, warlocks & wizards are a close second to lack of utility so they should also be up there. It's pretty crowded at top with rangers sticking out at the moment. </p><p>Also the other three can do dps from range, which in EOF has mattered.  (Yes I know rangers have to go in to do a few CAs but they can do almost all of it remotely)  </p>

[joebyrdw]

<cite>Siclone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> I think Assassin's should ask for more.  In raid guilds there DPS is matched by, 6 or so other classes some of which have all kinds of neat utility and solo ablity.  If assassin is not going to have a significant advantage in dps then why do other classes have significant advantage in other areas?</p></blockquote><p> This is my point exactly. </p><p>Where is the balance? If a class can DPS near us and bring wicked debuffs or group buffs I don't see that as balanced. I think there should be a much larger damage gap to make up for the lost utility. </p><p>Rouges should have a high potential for damage, but I think the predator should have a much higher potental than that. </p>

[Malkosha]

<p>As a non-raiding Assassin there are 2 things I would love to see:</p><p>1) When fighting linked MOB's, once we hit our Shrouded line, we should stay that way until our next attack. If the MOB's can't see us before the fight, they shouldn't be able to see us if we re-stealth during the fight no matter how many there are. While it may not make sense in RL (like jumping up and down totally hidden in front of a MOB while in stealth), this isn't RL ... just a game.</p><p>2) Vitality breech poisons should be available much earlier in the game. Make it a T1 skill to start ,with each tier packing more of a punch.</p>

[Siclone]

<p>I suspect when they balance class with damage and utility, that SOE looks mainly to the group game.</p><p>Where as most here look mainly to raids.</p><p>In Groups I can see Assassins doing more DPS, they have big hitters and the fights don't last that long.  So they use this as justification.</p><p>Also, they look at average numbers.  The casual group person, rarely knows how to get the most out of his toon.  We have new assassins join our guild, and parse under a guard in defensive stance.  We still have one that does all the time.  </p><p>So when you move the main focus from "average group person" to raids and players that know how to play.  </p><p>You get a more unbalanced situation.   </p>

[-=Hoss=-]

I disagree siclone.  I do a lot more dmg in a raid than in a group.  I, and I think most assassins will agree here, do better in longer fights.  I have to work my tail off in 20-30 second fights and hardly ever get my big shots off.  I never get a concealment chain off in group action unless we're taking down a named.  -h

[Kaiser Sigma]

That'd be correct. On shorter fights if your big hits aren't up you are going to have a rough time. The "changes" to the Predator AAs are almost interesting but will need some testing to see how good it can be. Even though the AoE direction of the Sta line sounds kind of appealing, Int / Str still sounds as <b>the</b> dps combo by a long shot. 12 secs non direct AoE immunity sounds nice though~.

[Siclone]

<p>I am just telling you guys what the Dev posted on the flames board regarding the this subject.</p><p>he saids to paraphrase.  'Assassins are in good shape, I look at the damage numbers on all servers and group sizes....'</p><p>Also, there is no other explanation for allowing the clear unbalance on raids</p><p>and once again, the question is not how much damage we do short fight or long fight.  its how much damage we do in relation to other classes on group fights.  </p><p> Other classes have the same issues with Ca's being down ect.  No thinking about it, I really rule in group play, I can out dps anyone. Even with a wizard in life burn.  I am thinking back to my last group and I just owned the parse.  </p><p> If you guys are getting owned in group parse by other classes, I would change things up some.  You should rule group parse.   I would just work on your skill and timing if that is the case.  </p>

[-=Hoss=-]

Well, what does owned mean?  I just looked at some parses from OOB, CoV, and Unrest.  I did top the parses, both zonewide and in almost every fight.  But, a pally and a monk were nipping at my heels the whole way.  Pallies and monks barely show up on parses in a raid.  At least in the raids I do.  Now, I was not grouping with any of the people/classes who normally beat me on the raid parse, so I can't say if their performance suffers too, but I doubt it would.  I'd be willing to bet those same people would own me in group action even more than they do in raids.  I should add that the classes that beat me in raids are rangers, necros, sometimes warlocks (its a tough class to play well), and at least one really good swashie I know.  -h

[Darkfir3]

Meh, I want swashys reach and then we are the best solo class in the game imo tbh...

[silentpsycho]

Valuk@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Meh, I want swashys reach and then we are the best solo class in the game imo tbh...</blockquote> Your an assasin; most of your attacks are from the back.  They would have to give you "reach around" instead...

[Terq]

<p>Normal group fights just don't provide an accurate picture of DPS.  Its mostly a race to see who can cast their biggest spell first.  Given group makeup, group named fights don't really last that too much longer.  You need to at least be able to cycle through your spells/CAs once (including a concealment chain).  You just can't do that in a group encounter. </p><p>If you want an accurate depiction of DPS, you need to look at it against a raid target (or something with gobs of HPs), sans any non-self buffs.  Group buffs can be manipulated to give anyone an advantage.  Put me in with a Fury, Dirge and an Illusionist, and I will make everyone on the raid jealous.  However, some other combinations will have the raid asking why the assassin is asleep.</p>

[Darkfir3]

<cite>silentpsycho wrote:</cite><blockquote>Valuk@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote>Meh, I want swashys reach and then we are the best solo class in the game imo tbh...</blockquote> Your an assasin; most of your attacks are from the back.  They would have to give you "reach around" instead...</blockquote> lol irl=P

[Mr. Dawki]

remember that whole oh idont know 15+ pages of posts wanting for there to be a positive change for assassins not just the same old no change at all that they have been givving us, you remember that? that whole thread that lockey actualy threatened the assassin class with a nerf instead.

[joebyrdw]

Mr. Dawkins wrote: <blockquote>remember that whole oh idont know 15+ pages of posts wanting for there to be a positive change for assassins not just the same old no change at all that they have been givving us, you remember that? that whole thread that lockey actualy threatened the assassin class with a nerf instead.</blockquote><p> Personally I don't recall that particular thread but that is not very good business. The forums are here for the purpose of us providing the devs feedback and sharing information. In a customer service job you have to be able to take constructive criticisim. Maby I am just underestimating the nature of the thread or post that illicited that paticular response. As it is likely that "someone" lit a fire that made others post emotionally. </p><p>I just wish we could ban the Rouge trolls (only the trolls normal rouges are fully welcomed by me)from posting in our class forum. Sure they might play an assassin but its obvious by their posts that they don't have the assassin classes best intrests in mind when posting here. Usally they just incite flames and feed fires anyway. </p><p>Back to the topic at hand I still belive we could use a bump in damage to make up for our lost utility. With the DW changing to 1H it might make a diffrence but we will just have to see. </p><p>Edit 1: Because I type like a 5 year old.</p><p>Edit 2: Reworded some things to minimize "flame" potential.</p>

[Geothe]

<p>"With the DW changing to 1H it might make a diffrence but we will just have to see. " Naw.</p><p>That wont really make a difference in DPS.  It wil only give you a wider selection of weapons to choose from. Basically current DW weapons are having their Damage Ratings increased by 33% (Stats/delays/procs are all staying the same). And then, when you actually DW 2 1handed weapons. they delay increaess by 33% as well.  essentially negating the DR increase, so the net DPS will stay the same, supposedly. lol</p>

[Siclone]

<cite>joebyrdws6 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mr. Dawkins wrote: <blockquote>remember that whole oh idont know 15+ pages of posts wanting for there to be a positive change for assassins not just the same old no change at all that they have been givving us, you remember that? that whole thread that lockey actualy threatened the assassin class with a nerf instead.</blockquote><p> Personally I don't recall that particular thread but that is not very good business. The forums are here for the purpose of us providing the devs feedback and sharing information. In a customer service job you have to be able to take constructive criticisim. Maby I am just underestimating the nature of the thread or post that illicited that paticular response. As it is likely that "someone" lit a fire that made others post emotionally. </p><p>I just wish we could ban the Rouge trolls from posting in our class forum. Sure they might play an assassin but its obvious by their posts that they don't have the assassin classes best intrests in mind when posting here. Usally they just incite flames and feed fires anyway. </p><p>Back to the topic at hand I still belive we could use a bump in damage to make up for our lost utility. With the DW changing to 1H it might make a diffrence but we will just have to see. </p></blockquote><p>well to the thread he was refuring to, I think the dev was saying, you guys are fine and if I was going to do anything it would be nerf you.  Thats how he felt about the assassin class given the information he has.  He has also made similar posts on other forums, saying "assassins are in great shape"   Just cuase you did not like the message, he was being honest and forth coming, and thats all you can ask for in a person.  thats much better then the  "yea I see your point let me get back to you on it".....then droping it and doing nothing, truly feeling that assassins are fine or more then fine.  Personally I dont like smoke blow up my [Removed for Content] to make me feel good, I want the facts so I can make choices.  but your the type that would take, "yea I see your point let me get back to you on it" as good customer realtions.  </p><p>as far as you feel certain rogues here trolling, I think if you just keep the emotion out of it, and list reasons you feel the troll's  "me" facts are wrong and keep the converstion on ideas and factual, I think you would not have a problem.  Problems normally come up when you dont like what someone is saying, regardless of its true or not. Again give me the truth anyday over smoke to make me feel good.  </p>

[joebyrdw]

<p>Thats the word on the street. From just looking at comparable drop the stats on 1H look to have better stats than the DW. I haven't seen anything in regards to stat changes but it would only make sense to raise them slightly on the current DW weapons. </p><p>You are right though in theroy the changes will make no change in DPS. </p>

[joebyrdw]

<cite>Siclone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>joebyrdws6 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mr. Dawkins wrote: <blockquote>remember that whole oh idont know 15+ pages of posts wanting for there to be a positive change for assassins not just the same old no change at all that they have been givving us, you remember that? that whole thread that lockey actualy threatened the assassin class with a nerf instead.</blockquote><p> Personally I don't recall that particular thread but that is not very good business. The forums are here for the purpose of us providing the devs feedback and sharing information. In a customer service job you have to be able to take constructive criticisim. Maby I am just underestimating the nature of the thread or post that illicited that paticular response. As it is likely that "someone" lit a fire that made others post emotionally. </p><p>I just wish we could ban the Rouge trolls from posting in our class forum. Sure they might play an assassin but its obvious by their posts that they don't have the assassin classes best intrests in mind when posting here. Usally they just incite flames and feed fires anyway. </p><p>Back to the topic at hand I still belive we could use a bump in damage to make up for our lost utility. With the DW changing to 1H it might make a diffrence but we will just have to see. </p></blockquote><p>well to the thread he was refuring to, I think the dev was saying, you guys are fine and if I was going to do anything it would be nerf you.  Thats how he felt about the assassin class given the information he has.  He has also made similar posts on other forums, saying "assassins are in great shape"   Just cuase you did not like the message, he was being honest and forth coming, and thats all you can ask for in a person.  thats much better then the  "yea I see your point let me get back to you on it".....then droping it and doing nothing, truly feeling that assassins are fine or more then fine.  Personally I dont like smoke blow up my [I cannot control my vocabulary] to make me feel good, I want the facts so I can make choices.  but your the type that would take, "yea I see your point let me get back to you on it" as good customer realtions.  </p><p>as far as you feel certain rogues here trolling, I think if you just keep the emotion out of it, and list reasons you feel the troll's  "me" facts are wrong and keep the converstion on ideas and factual, I think you would not have a problem.  Problems normally come up when you dont like what someone is saying, regardless of its true or not. Again give me the truth anyday over smoke to make me feel good.  </p></blockquote><p>Like I said in my post earlier I did not know the context of  the tread that threatened "nerf", as far as thinking I'm the type of person that thinks "I'll check into it and get back to you" is a suitable CS answer you are wrong. Honestly I can't figure out how it even fits into this discussion. </p><p>You are right on the account that I think you are a Rouge troll any post about DPS you make it a point to hop in and say Swashie/Brig are the best class ever, these posts are not brig/swash DPS posts they are Assassin posts stay out of them if you have nothing consturctive to say. As well your post on the nerf of shadows and all your subsiquient replies to that post it is obvious you wanted nothing more than to incite flames. </p><p> I won't flame battle with you I've made my point and I'm confident that many others here feel the same way. </p><p>Now we can get back on to the original topic. </p><p>Edit : I still type like a 5 year old. </p>

[Lord Montague]

<p>I saw that post (it appears to be gone now because I did try to find it so I could quote his exact words), and I NEVER took it as a threat that assassins would get nerfed.  The wording was purposefully ambiguous, that to call for a balance on something someone would indeed get nerfed but not necessarily assassins (he could've very well been referring to rogues for all we know).  That people drew the conclusion that he specifically meant assassins loooked more like a knee-jerk reaction  based on assumptions without really reading carefully what he actually said - or reading into it too much.</p><p>but just incase....*hands out tin foil hats for all*</p>

[Satie]

Well, for whoever is reading out there. . . I want a raidwide hate transfer (tired of being in mt group), fix the stealth breaking and make exacting work with all CAs. Other then that i just want them to stop putting mage only encounters in game and stop balancing classes through AAs and items when they should infact just enhance on what you have already and not dictate how you form up groups, play your class or type of weapons and poisons you use. Edit:  Oh and i almost forgot. . . make swipe proc more please.  Like 5 times a min ATLEAST.

[Mr. Dawki]

<p>as for the previous thread being refered to this is it</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=346893" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=346893</a></p><p>now that thread is already 11 pages long, that and there are 15+ pages of posts that were compiled before there was a huge forum wipe for a total of 26+ pages of GOOD, WELL THOUGHT OUT, sugestions on how to give assassins SOMETHING without making the class overpowered. nothing happened, and now you know why i hate Lockeye</p><p>And as for his statement</p><p>Lockeye Game Designer Posts: 221 Registered: 11-21-2004 </p><p> Think about this deeply for a moment... are you really sure you want to bring Assassin performance to a dev's attention so that they can analyze the actual server-wide Assassin DPS performance and make decisions based on analysis of where Assassin actually place on server-wide DPS parses?</p><p>Message Edited by Lockeye on 01-18-2007 09:49 PM </p><p>you can look at however you want, the way i see it is how SOE works, everytime they evaluate a class it 90% of the time ends in a nerf, so thats what i see him saying here. "If we look into the assassin class we will nerf it"</p>

[Lord Montague]

<p>You can look at it and read into it however the heck you want - I still say it's ambiguous.  Besides the fact that it's old, probably a moot argument now, and I don't what the point is of dwelling upon it.</p>

[steelbadger]

Remember that SOE can call up EXT DPS average numbers for single raids against a single mob, for single raids in a single zone, the average for every raid to have killed a mob, the average dps of every raid to have entered a specific zone, the everage dps of every raid in every zone. I'd say assassins come out top on amalgamated multi raidforce parses, simply because so many rangers in particular parse REALLY bad (because they don't have a decent bow) whereas an assassin can parse 1000 ext dps in xegonite. I shouldn't think that our apparent weakness at the very top end of raiding (not saying there is a weakness compared to anyone but rangers, but I'm not at that top end) shows up on SOE's amalgamated class dps scores.

[Mr. Dawki]

<p>see once again some here have the wrong idea, I DONT CARE ABOUT OUR DPS AS A CLASS, the ability to get a good clear precise dps rate for an entire class is imposible, you have good assassins and bad assassins and plat farmer assassin (which really suck) to determine good from bad would take id say a good month of monitoring and then parsing, something SOE would never alocate resourses to. So they say "everything is fine" and move on</p><p>I JUST WANTED SOMETHING A LITTLE MORE INTERESTING FOR ASSASSIN AA's! You know? You have stuff like manaburn (wizzy), lifeburn(necro), tainted heals (necro), added heals (pally), reach(swashy), dbl attack(ranger), time compresion and dbl attack (illusionist) , tashania (coercer), reaver (SK), shockwave (warlock), stoneskin procs (bruiser), Anti death FD (monk) </p><p>im sure the list goes on, point is most classes got SOMETHING really nice to have, assassins got some stuff that had the potential to be good but due to small changes were made worthless (getaway when it was an ae avoidance that lasted 30 seconds no matter what), or are near imposible to actualy test (bleeding), or are nice but due to a rediculously short duration is useless (frontload). i would trade my assassin aa's for any of the above mentioned abilitys or something on par.</p><p>botom line our assassin aa's are boring to the point of tears and we wanted something more interesting</p>

[Draknishar]

I agree with you on the boring part of our AAs 100% I want AAs that give us unique and usefull stuff, not asking too much I know there are those who do get this <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> also I would really enjoy AA lines that didnt force me to take stuff that is only usefull when soloing or grouping etc etc, I want to chose stuff that I will put to use ( parry in the str line of predator AA is an example of 4 AA points I cried all the way through ) <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jvaloth]

<p>Same ole story.</p><p>Lockeye's comment was a veiled threat.    Like I said when I 1st saw his post, I'd be glad to compare Assassin and Swashy parses of the top 25% of raiding guilds and you will find that the zone wide parses are pretty close.</p><p>Factor in all the utility (debuffs, soloability, tankage, AE immunities, etc)  and its not balanced at all.    </p>

[Jayad]

Yeah but it's easier to play an assassin for dps than a swashy. So I'm not sure looking at average parses is going to look good for us. On the other hand the top end is not far apart at all...