Models! Yay...

[DanaDark]

<p>Just a small list on what I think needs to be improved.</p><p>1. Bellybuttons would be cool... this isn't a Jake2.0 mmo is it?! 2. Eyebrows need to change color with the hair. 3. Some body form options would be nice... Not every man has pecks large enough to choke a horse with. 4. One skeleton system that scales (thus allowing more armors to be made, and possibility for sitting in chairs) 5. Item interactions rock... sitting in a chair, laying in a bed, aint asking for much here 6. Better armors yada yada yada (like they listen) 7. ONE character model. SOGA models and Original models both need to go. Instead of having two medium quality models, have ONE high quality model. (SOGA are anime-like and Original are claymation with the worst shading I've ever seen in my entire life)</p><p>Meh, maybe Im alone on this. But I've never created a character on EQ2 and said "Ah, perfect".</p>

[selch]

<cite>DanaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a small list on what I think needs to be improved.</p><p>1. Bellybuttons would be cool... this isn't a Jake2.0 mmo is it?! 2. Eyebrows need to change color with the hair. 3. Some body form options would be nice... Not every man has pecks large enough to choke a horse with. 4. One skeleton system that scales (thus allowing more armors to be made, and possibility for sitting in chairs) 5. Item interactions rock... sitting in a chair, laying in a bed, aint asking for much here 6. Better armors yada yada yada (like they listen) 7. ONE character model. SOGA models and Original models both need to go. Instead of having two medium quality models, have ONE high quality model. (SOGA are anime-like and Original are claymation with the worst shading I've ever seen in my entire life)</p><p>Meh, maybe Im alone on this. But I've never created a character on EQ2 and said "Ah, perfect".</p></blockquote><p> 1. A lot of belly button fetishist lately, dont you think? Ever sniffed your belly button.. I did yours. It stinks. </p><p>2. Agreed</p><p>3. I do</p><p>4. Yeah, would be good</p><p>5. Was same as 4</p><p>6. You don't want to see their 'better' armor for sure</p><p>7. No need to go for any model, I don't really want a character that YOUR types like</p><p>8. Since you registered, you are opening same topic. Since start you find that ugly, how come you are still playing a game you hate your avatars?</p>

[Naubeta]

"Meh, maybe Im alone on this. But I've never created a character on EQ2 and said "Ah, perfect"." Ratonga look very good and characterful. I hope they aren't broken into something ugly with new models.

[DanaDark]

<p>Meh, the models just leave much to be desired. It's like finding a sketch by Monet, very nice indeed, but you just wish it were finished.</p>

[DanaDark]

And I just realized I say "Meh" too often... gonna have to beat on my Ratonga friend for that =

[Ralum]

DanaDark wrote: <blockquote><p>1. Bellybuttons would be cool... this isn't a Jake2.0 mmo is it?!</p></blockquote><p>Get it right! It's Kyle Xy! Or a "tank" from Space: Above and Beyond.</p><p><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>But other than me being nitpicky, I agree with the OP.</p>

[DanaDark]

<p>[Removed for Content]... never seen the show... just saw a commercial with a boy without a Belly Button...</p><p>-shame-</p>

[Image_Vain]

SOGA owns, the anime style kicks [Removed for Content]

[Seraki]

<cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>SOGA owns, the anime style kicks [I cannot control my vocabulary] </blockquote><p> There is a lot better anime out there than what soga deliverd to us  <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p>

[selch]

<cite>Seraki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Image_Vain wrote:</cite><blockquote>SOGA owns, the anime style kicks [I cannot control my vocabulary] </blockquote><p> There is a lot better anime out there than what soga deliverd to us  <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </p></blockquote><p>Aye, saying Anime models to SOGA is insult to Animes, may be not pokemon...</p><p>Animes can draw humanoids straight rather than zig zag types or pencil types.</p>

[Seraki]

<cite>DanaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a small list on what I think needs to be improved.</p><p>1. Bellybuttons would be cool... this isn't a Jake2.0 mmo is it?! 2. Eyebrows need to change color with the hair. 3. Some body form options would be nice... Not every man has pecks large enough to choke a horse with. 4. One skeleton system that scales (thus allowing more armors to be made, and possibility for sitting in chairs) 5. Item interactions rock... sitting in a chair, laying in a bed, aint asking for much here 6. Better armors yada yada yada (like they listen) 7. ONE character model. SOGA models and Original models both need to go. Instead of having two medium quality models, have ONE high quality model. (SOGA are anime-like and Original are claymation with the worst shading I've ever seen in my entire life)</p><p>Meh, maybe Im alone on this. But I've never created a character on EQ2 and said "Ah, perfect".</p></blockquote><p>1. I think the eq 1 human (luclin era models) had belly buttons you could see on monks.  Woudnt be bad if they were neet belly buttons .. no outy's plz LOL</p><p>2. eyebrow color choices would be nice, dark elves for instance there have been many complaints regarding that.</p><p>3. body choices would be nice but I dont see them doing it as it would mean adjusting so many armor pieces. </p><p>4. Im not sure I understand the skeleton system you mean but it sounds interesting.  If you could elaborate more maybe ...</p><p>5.  Agreed!  would love to sit in a chare or lay down on a bed.</p><p>6. They do listen to the armor request.  I have read post recently where they talk about it.  What is doable with in resonable constraints however is a factor.   A single armor piece has to be modeled for every race and gender of that race and that includes every animated jesture that model could make. </p><p>7. Im not a fan of SOGA my self.  Especialy as I played this game from beta and remember the whole issue of how SOGA came about.   It was very suspicious IMO that some player leaked the images from an asian site and would  make demanding post about them.  People would argue ( most as I recall didnt like them) then as soon as it died down another post would show up with more demands and even the  hard sell technique of pretending that SOE had already aggreed to it when they didnt and demanding to know when.   This went on in waves until eventually they gave in or so it seemed.  Personally I have always suspected that employees of SOGA were some of the posters.   Some of the first players of EQ2 were rather upset that they did this instead of fixing or improving some of the original models as they first said they would before the SOGA thing blew that away.</p><p>Some of the shading was better on some of the models ( as least on wood elves) in beta 2 than made it into the game.  Time constraints and budget maybe, who knows.  What bothers me right now is that when I quit EQ2 over a year ago(returned just under 2 months ago) my old wood elf model ( have screen shots) seems to look better than they look now.   Also the running animation on female models looks much worse than it used to ( they run like little boys), so I worry that there is a simplifying trend going on here.</p><p>*sigh .. typos [changes the word it to in]</p>

[Siogai]

<blockquote>3. body choices would be nice but I dont see them doing it as it would mean adjusting so many armor pieces.</blockquote> Not if you had small/medium/large pieces for armour, each applicable to a certain range of body-morphs.

[Mirander_1]

<cite>DanaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote>3. Some body form options would be nice... Not every man has pecks large enough to choke a horse with. 4. One skeleton system that scales (thus allowing more armors to be made, and possibility for sitting in chairs) </blockquote>Isn't this slightly contradictatory?  Multiple body forms require character skeletons for every different type of body

[Katsi]

Overall, I agree with the OP. I do like *some* of the alternate models, but not all of them. What I would love to see is the ability to show all of them, that way people can show others what they really want their character to look like. I find it frustrating to know that other people see my DE templar as a long eared grouchy insomniac when I see her as a cute and friendly dark skinned elf. Sorry.. I disagree with the running comment. I'd rather run 'like a boy' then with my head bouncing side to side like a stereotypical 80s blond valley girl. - Katsi

[Polywogus]

I agree w/ some of the OP's notes, but am heavily against #8. I enjoy SOGA, be it not real anime or too much like it. Add a 3rd type of model, leave the other two. Variety is the spice of life =)

[jagermonsta]

SOGA <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Anime <img src="/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'm for a 3rd type of model...

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Polywogus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Add a 3rd type of model, leave the other two. Variety is the spice of life =)</blockquote> The real issue is that the current models make it really hard to add items to the game. Ever item needs to have <number of races> X <gender> X <model  types> worth of artwork made for it. Adding the new models without getting rid of the old ones or reworking them would just make the problem worse.

[Zarafein]

New items could use old appeareance on the old models, not the best solution but wouldn't need more work.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>1] Lose all the japanese influences <i>please</i>. Isnt there enough out there already without morphing EQ2 into final fantasy?</p><p>2] Western fantasy & medieval styles. More please.</p>

[Bluu]

<cite>DanaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a small list on what I think needs to be improved.</p><p>1. Bellybuttons would be cool... this isn't a Jake2.0 mmo is it?! 2. Eyebrows need to change color with the hair. 3. Some body form options would be nice... Not every man has pecks large enough to choke a horse with. 4. One skeleton system that scales (thus allowing more armors to be made, and possibility for sitting in chairs) 5. Item interactions rock... sitting in a chair, laying in a bed, aint asking for much here 6. Better armors yada yada yada (like they listen) 7. ONE character model. SOGA models and Original models both need to go. Instead of having two medium quality models, have ONE high quality model. (SOGA are anime-like and Original are claymation with the worst shading I've ever seen in my entire life)</p><p>Meh, maybe Im alone on this. But I've never created a character on EQ2 and said "Ah, perfect".</p></blockquote>Fantastic ideas! God i hope SoE is listening.....

[Image_Vain]

I don't think they will get rid of SOGA, it looks too cool.

[selch]

Guy De Alsace wrote: <blockquote><p>1] Lose all the japanese influences <i>please</i>. Isnt there enough out there already without morphing EQ2 into final fantasy?</p><p>2] Western fantasy & medieval styles. More please.</p></blockquote><p> Lotus, hear hear!</p><p>You have been lazy lately giving all jobs to asian team. Don't let them screw the game</p>

[kitsuneshou]

<cite>DanaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a small list on what I think needs to be improved.</p><p>1. Bellybuttons would be cool... this isn't a Jake2.0 mmo is it?! 2. Eyebrows need to change color with the hair. 3. Some body form options would be nice... Not every man has pecks large enough to choke a horse with. 4. One skeleton system that scales (thus allowing more armors to be made, and possibility for sitting in chairs) 5. Item interactions rock... sitting in a chair, laying in a bed, aint asking for much here 6. Better armors yada yada yada (like they listen) 7. ONE character model. SOGA models and Original models both need to go. Instead of having two medium quality models, have ONE high quality model. (SOGA are anime-like and Original are claymation with the worst shading I've ever seen in my entire life)</p><p>Meh, maybe Im alone on this. But I've never created a character on EQ2 and said "Ah, perfect".</p></blockquote> 1. Never noticed the lack of bellybuttons, but since fae are born from flowers, do they have them anyway? 2. Never noticed this either, but I agree. 3. [Removed for Content] 4. That would be nice. 5. Would love to see that, its one area where Warcraft has EQ2 beaten. 6. Its SOE dear, what did you expect..? Quality? 7. I agree here, the original models are the ugliest things I have ever seen, I do like the anime models though, but half the time their faces look perma-angry, or they look like they have mouth deformations... one reason why Ive only played fae, everything else looks like crap... except the ratonga and the woodelves. Youre not alone. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Josgar]

I dont remember who said it... but SOE giving us SOGA models did not stop the development from happening on the old character models... (Especially because the SOGA team does all maintanence on SOGA models and the SOE team does everything to the regular models (Except for applying armor... SOE team does that)) Personally im tired of people begging for new armor models. I would enjoy having more armor models too... but I have done the math and adding a chestplate about 50 times to different character models, testing them to see if they are in the right place, and making sure they dont sit weirdly on the character by positioning them just right seems like the most tedious work that could have ever been imagined by anyone in their entire lives... However... what they really could do is throw in some newer textures! like cloth armor looks very weird. and they could greatly change the appearance of armor by changing the textures on it.

[Cynziel]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>... but I have done the math and adding a chestplate about 50 times to different character models, testing them to see if they are in the right place, and making sure they dont sit weirdly on the character by positioning them just right seems like the most tedious work that could have ever been imagined by anyone in their entire lives... However... what they really could do is throw in some newer textures! like cloth armor looks very weird. and they could greatly change the appearance of armor by changing the textures on it. </blockquote> The idea behind getting a brand new model is exactly so they don't have to adjust their armor models 50 times, which is why I fear we're to lose the previous models. Unless I didn't get that right.. And I wholeheartedly agree with textures!! We don't really need brand new models when a wide variety of textures would do the trick.

[redde]

What I don't like about the option of alternative models is that your character can look different through someone elses "eyes"..

[kitsuneshou]

I have yet to get into caster classes on this game simply because all the clothing is half-[Removed for Content]... Its sad that all the armours look a lot better than the cloth. <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[DanaDark]

<p>I personally stopped looking for the "best" gear when I play now. Instead, I sacrafice some mit, stats, etc on my gear so that I can have a character that stands out. I find that when I look different than every other character out there, I am remembered better and usually have an easier time getting a group then.</p>

[Nakaru-Nitepaw]

The only SOGA model i like is the Erudites. Their the only ones who don't have that Oily Skin look.

[cr0wangel]

<p>7. ONE character model. SOGA models and Original models both need to go. </p> <p>Hum, there are some people out there who played since the release of the game, we like the original models. It's not because you don't like them that everyone think like you. </p>

[Nakaru-Nitepaw]

Alak@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><p>7. ONE character model. SOGA models and Original models both need to go. </p> <p>Hum, there are some people out there who played since the release of the game, we like the original models. It's not because you don't like them that everyone think like you. </p></blockquote> True. I myself have had my account since beta, but canceled for a couple years. My original character still exists with their preorder jboots. THe original models are what i use. I think the SOGA look really oily. Nothing as scary as a greased up ogre plowing their way through skeletons slipping around all over the place on the vasaline. I admit the original models look like claymation sorta, but they look more like how the races were intended. The halflings look like halflings, the female dwarves have beards, and so on. The SOGA IMO look like something that was thrown together quickly in WoW's texturing style.

[Image_Vain]

I'm personally happy with the SOGA, alot of people like that Asian Anime style, and I'm one of them.

[mellowknees72]

<cite>DanaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just a small list on what I think needs to be improved.</p><p> 3. Some body form options would be nice... Not every man has pecks large enough to choke a horse with. </p></blockquote><p> Men have PECKS?</p><p>All I can think of is a group of men running about with roosters strapped to their chests.  </p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Nakaru-Nitepaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alak@Lucan DLere wrote: <blockquote><p>7. ONE character model. SOGA models and Original models both need to go. </p> <p>Hum, there are some people out there who played since the release of the game, we like the original models. It's not because you don't like them that everyone think like you. </p></blockquote> True. I myself have had my account since beta, but canceled for a couple years. My original character still exists with their preorder jboots. THe original models are what i use. I think the SOGA look really oily. Nothing as scary as a greased up ogre plowing their way through skeletons slipping around all over the place on the vasaline. I admit the original models look like claymation sorta, but they look more like how the races were intended. The halflings look like halflings, the female dwarves have beards, and so on. The SOGA IMO look like something that was thrown together quickly in WoW's texturing style. </blockquote>I'm glad there are two model types. There will always be a question of personal taste and all that. Personally I think the Soga models for the most part are far better looking than the original ones, espesially for humans and male elves. They are taller, better looking and have hairstyles that don't look horrible. Yay!

[Image_Vain]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm glad there are two model types. There will always be a question of personal taste and all that. Personally I think the Soga models for the most part are far better looking than the original ones, espesially for humans and male elves. They are taller, better looking and have hairstyles that don't look horrible. Yay! </blockquote> I agree, SOGA models looks much better then the originals  IMMHO. The Original male elvs looked like the just sucked on sour candy.

[DanaDark]

<p>I find good and bad about both models. I just personally feel that a single model type should be created that has a single scalable skeleton (Does not affect appearance) and that has more effort put into it than the current models.</p><p>Im just saying I think sony should just start fresh with the models and make something that truly belongs in the game. I for one am tired of all the mobs I fight looking much better than me with better armor graphics and all that.</p><p>I just figure we have two medocre character models... I'd gladly trade that for one set that was truly worth wild.</p>

[Allisia]

The only thing I've found I like about some of the SOGA models is the hairstyles. The original models have some of the most awful hair choices imaginable. The female human SOGA model is too thin at the waistline, in fact, most of the SOGA models appear rather gaunt IMO.

[steelblueangel]

I hope the ratongas do get a face lift in some areas such as the ability to chose eye color and a few more curves for the female ratongas.

[Guy De Alsace]

<p>I find SOGA models lazy. I was looking at a Barbarian male non-SOGA the other day and his skin actually looked worn and old. SOGA models always look perfectly smooth - there just doesnt seem to be any detail at all. </p><p>I love the handlebar moustaches and tatoos. The paunches, bald patches and flying officer kite sideburns on Halflings. The haughty eyes of the high elves...they make EQ2 feel and look different to all the thousands upon thousands of japanese styled games.</p><p>Now if they could successfully blend the japanese and western <i>together</i> in the character creation screen with options for more oriental features or anime styles for those that want them, within the overall design philosophy of EQ2 (ie no perfectly smooth, featureless skin). </p><p>This is my Ranger, Tsientsin - he's based on a Mongol warrior. I think he looks oriental within the limits of the original character creation screen. Enough to pass as oriental without looking comic book or anime. Incidentally, just look at the detail in that cloak. Not seen anything remotely close to that level of detail in any other MMO I've tried.</p><p><img src="http://gr3yh4wk.50megs.com/images/EQ2/tsien.jpg" border="0"></p>

[KerowynnKaotic]

<cite>DanaDark wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*snipped*  I for one am tired of all the mobs I fight looking much better than me with better armor graphics and all that.</p></blockquote><p> This pretty much sums up my feelings for all Character Graphics regardless of the US vs Soga trivial debates. </p><p>--</p><p>The NPCs keep getting better and better looking while we stay the same.   Even when we kill said mobs and they drop their armor we never look anywhere near as good.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[kitsuneshou]

<cite>steelblueangel wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hope the ratongas do get a face lift in some areas such as the ability to chose eye color and a few more curves for the female ratongas. </blockquote> Yeah, Id like to have a snow-white mouse with red eyes...

[Josgar]

<cite>Cynzielle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>... but I have done the math and adding a chestplate about 50 times to different character models, testing them to see if they are in the right place, and making sure they dont sit weirdly on the character by positioning them just right seems like the most tedious work that could have ever been imagined by anyone in their entire lives... However... what they really could do is throw in some newer textures! like cloth armor looks very weird. and they could greatly change the appearance of armor by changing the textures on it. </blockquote> The idea behind getting a brand new model is exactly so they don't have to adjust their armor models 50 times, which is why I fear we're to lose the previous models. Unless I didn't get that right.. And I wholeheartedly agree with textures!! We don't really need brand new models when a wide variety of textures would do the trick. </blockquote>The character model's skeleton should =/= what the character looks like at all... it should be the things that we dont see that tell the model how to move.

[Mirander_1]

Yep, the revamp shouldn't seriously alter the appearance of the character models (at least the original ones*) from what's been said in the past.  The revamp is simply to reduce rendering times, and dramatically reduce the time needed to make new armor models.  So don't expect new character customization with it, besides the armors. *I say 'at least the original ones', because I could see the bodies on the soga models being changed to match the US models.  Having two completely distict bodies for each race/gender probably causes a lot of problems.

[Kaitar]

<p>I agree with parts of it. Some models are just fine (Iksar are great! though changing body  mass would be nice... my brigand isn't supposed to have a man chest big enough to knock you out with...) and fixing skeletal structures so you can sit in chairs and stuff would be awesome.</p><p>SOGA vs. Non SOGA... eh, you know its funny. When Soga first came out, I used them, but after a long break from the game and coming back, I find I can't stand the SOGA. The females look just awful and you can hardly customize any features on male or female faces at all. Some of the original ones are pretty bad, yes, (humans FTL <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ugly ) but at least there's a lot more ways to make them look uniquely ugly? Heheh.</p><p>You know what I would really really like to see, and yes...it's from that game we shalt not mention? A "dressing room" option for when you browse the broker, you can see what the armor is going to look like on you before you buy it. Anyone who's played WoW knows what I'm talking about. This is a great tool for us nerdy RPers (or for anyone else who just wants to look cool) and I really really wish they'd put that in.</p>

[Armawk]

<cite>Kaitar wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You know what I would really really like to see, and yes...it's from that game we shalt not mention? A "dressing room" option for when you browse the broker, you can see what the armor is going to look like on you before you buy it. Anyone who's played WoW knows what I'm talking about. This is a great tool for us nerdy RPers (or for anyone else who just wants to look cool) and I really really wish they'd put that in.</p></blockquote> coming in GU36 in a couple of weeks

[Kaitar]

Really? cuz if that's so, then it's awesome news.