In Combat Evac.

[Greeen-_-Ranger]

I can't believe I'm calling for this, but please examine the fact that a level 20 ranger can have 90% incombat runspeed.  My master 1 snare and forest spider (clicky snare!!!) neckpiece put them at JUST 9% faster than me sprinting, and as soon as it breaks, they are back at 90%.  Fleeing is one thing, and yea that's annoying in itself, but how in the world do rangers TAKE deaths with something like this going on?  They have the ranged dps, which crits for 23% with 35% reduction on cast times, 90% sprint speed (23% already WITHOUT sprinting).  Forget pact of the cheetah,  this is by far worse.  Let's get a 30 something page complain going about this.  This is WAY to OP.

[Image_Vain]

Yes I agree that Bards are seriously overpowered, the DEV team must take a good long look at this class.

[The_Real_Ohno]

<p>Its not 90% sprint, if your gonna cry at least get the facts straight.</p><p>L2P</p>

[Image_Vain]

Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Its not 90% sprint, if your gonna cry at least get the facts straight.</p><p>L2P</p></blockquote> You heard the guy, Learn 2 Play, it's not 90% it's 89% LOL

[convict]

Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Its not 90% sprint, if your gonna cry at least get the facts straight.</p><p>L2P</p></blockquote> This L2P and carebear garbage, is this the online thing the kids are doing? I notice it comes from mostly people who play OP classes, or from people with high titles that run marathons all day..

[Aeralik]

Most in combat run speeds buffs will disable when in pvp combat soon. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Squishy]

Woah,  does that include sprint too?   That is an in combat run speed buff of sorts isn't it?   Would this mean that you couldn't even run away with sprint?  or would ranger AA sprint buffs just not effect this and all would run at 40%?   Seems like a terrible idea to disable sprint in combat run increase for pvp....

[Bloodfa]

Hey, can we get a teaser list of things to come?  Might cut down on some of the whine/nerf/gripe threads. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Bozidar]

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most in combat run speeds buffs will disable when in pvp combat soon. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[EQ2Playa432]

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most in combat run speeds buffs will disable when in pvp combat soon. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Oh [Removed for Content]. This is a good change though. But, will sprint be affected?

[Neverborn]

interesting... NOW [Removed for Content] GET RID OF PERMA IMMUNITY and the game will be fun again.

[Splintered]

Kalian@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most in combat run speeds buffs will disable when in pvp combat soon. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Oh [I cannot control my vocabulary]. This is a good change though. But, will sprint be affected? </blockquote> I doubt they'll change sprint. But I would assume anything adding to sprint will be changed. I have said it before and I'll say it again, only bards should have some type of incombat run speed.

[Splintered]

Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Its not 90% sprint, if your gonna cry at least get the facts straight.</p><p>L2P</p></blockquote><p> hey bud, 90% can actually be attained, but only in the rare circumstances. </p><p>40% sprint / 25% increase to sprint / fae or arasai 5% / 8.3% ranger m1 buff / 10.4% (estimated, I think its 1.3% per point) ranger agi aa line = 88.7%, so not 90%, but pretty close.</p>

[Wytie]

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff0000">Most </span></b>in combat run speeds buffs will disable when in pvp combat soon. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> lol most heh</p><p> wonder what that means thats funny cause most ranger incombat run speeds come from aa's so i guess then you'll let a full aa respec too then huh ya know since your pretty much F'n them over lol in both trees........</p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Wytie wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff0000">Most </span></b>in combat run speeds buffs will disable when in pvp combat soon. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> lol most heh</p><p> wonder what that means thats funny cause most ranger incombat run speeds come from aa's so i guess then you'll let a full aa respec too then huh ya know since your pretty much F'n them over lol in both trees........</p></blockquote> I'm assuming that Pact, for example, will still work.  bard stuff should work too, tbh

[EQGu]

<p>at level 20 its NOT 90% or 89%.. With full AAs into ranger incombat run speed AND cloak of the forest which is a T7 ranger buff at master1 it gives 8% in combat run speed. so rangers with AAs and that buff we get 16% in combat speed at t7 with master1 and the AAs</p><p>Sprint is Different with 5 points into it and our buffs that stack we get up to 82% with aas and the master cloak of the forest. But sprint costs power. </p><p>Now if they take away the 12% or w/e we can get from AAs cool give us a respec and make that aa give something else a little bit useful.</p><p>I really hope they are taking a look at the fury in combat run speed because thats just F'd up. they will still have pact which is fine i guess.</p><p>I just hope they do it right. Maybe not just take away most in combat run speeds but place them where they should be. and dont just nerf 3 classes and let some already overpowered ones keep thiers.</p><p>as for rangers is not the in combat runspeed its the sprint but like i said that costs power. as for incombat run speed we dont actually get that much compared to some other classes.</p>

[Amphibia]

Bah, and I had so much fun with that stuff on my lowbie ranger.... Oh well, I guess it still works out of combat so that a ranger can at least use those speed enchantments to get away from gank squads. Just gotto be a little more careful with picking targets, and make [Removed for Content] sure not to attack those overpowered druids.... <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cocytus]

<p>sprint should work in combat IMO, but cap at 40%.</p>

[Kradun]

There goes my primary method of killing swashies and brigands... Back to the old school style...

[Swass]

woohoo!

[Magius789]

<p>Eh, I don't mind loosing our in combat run speed.  Curious about how sprint will work now though, its a good way to get distance in a pvp encounter.  Root, sprint away, turn sprint off and that usually gives a few good seconds to get a few attacks off.  If they take that way from us then I think they need to remove the min. distance for our bow attacks to work or else rangers are going to become the new fodder of pvp.  Besically we won't be able to attack anyone because we can't get any distance on them.</p><p>On a side note they removed in combat evac from all classes in PvP, fine with me.  However you can still buy an in combat pvp locket from the pvp merchants.  How do you justify taking something away from classess because it makes things "unfair" but still letting those with money and status the ability to do it.  Seems sort of contradictory in my opinion.</p><p>Edit: I just thought of this, if they remove in combat run speed from "most" classes and rangers are one of them.  What are they replacing our in combat run speed buff from our agi line with?  Because that would make those 8 points I put into that worthless.  Maybe have it reduce the distance needed for our bow attacks?  I actually hope the programmer makes a note about this because you are taking 4-8 points and making them usless.  I reponse to this question would be nice.</p>

[The_Real_Ohno]

<p>This is quite annoyin, not the in combat run speed, imo this needed looked at.  Furys never truly were in combat, ever.  But what the hell is up with all the nerfs as of late?  Like nerf after nerf.  I seriously think by RoK we all will be the EXACT same.  Keep up the whinin ppl, your doing a great job!</p>

[Swass]

<cite>Magius789 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>On a side note they removed in combat evac from all classes in PvP, fine with me.  However you can still buy an in combat pvp locket from the pvp merchants.  How do you justify taking something away from classess because it makes things "unfair" but still letting those with money and status the ability to do it.  Seems sort of contradictory in my opinion.</p></blockquote>Rumor has it, PvP Lockets no longer work in pvp combat either. Also, the Rallos Zek in-combat evac god ability does not work either.

[The_Real_Ohno]

PvP lockets do NOT work in PvP combat

[Myxzptlk]

It's kinda hard to be a ranged fighter if you can never get range on the person and a great deal of your combat arts wont work it the person you're fighting is too close to you. Make bow attacks the same range as melee attacks and i think that a ranger with an increased in combat run speed would be less necessary.

[convict]

Aquaseed@Vox wrote: <blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff0000">It's kinda hard to be a ranged fighter if you can never get range on the person</span></b> and a great deal of your combat arts wont work it the person you're fighting is too close to you. Make bow attacks the same range as melee attacks and i think that a ranger with an increased in combat run speed would be less necessary. </blockquote> Show me 1 Ranger that waits until your both close enough to Kiss before attacking. Give me a break.

[Magius789]

<p>I think what he is saying is if you remove any ability for the ranger to gain distance on the target then the ranger is going to be completely worthless in pvp.  Convit not all rangers sit up on cliff tops and inaccessable places.  I run around loping plains a lot and there really aren't places like that there.  Most rangers like TT/BS because of the cliffs but not all.  If you take away my in combat run speed I have 1 root and 1 snare and 1 maybe 2 stuns.  The snare won't do much since our speed will be 0 we will be able to gain a very minimal  distance on the target.  The stun would provide enough time for maybe 1 attack IF you have the increased casting speed, so 1 root that lasts between 4-6 seconds and has a 30 second recast, I think, will be the only way for us to gain enough distance to use your CA's.  So if we can't drop them in that 4-6 seconds we will be screwed.  And don't say we have melee attacks, we have 5 I think and the max dmg is jack and crap.</p><p>On the pvp locket note, so you are saying if someone is engaged with me in pvp combat there should be no way for them to just disappear anymore?  How long as his been in place..I had it happen a few times last night is why I ask.</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>If you want to talk about solo PvP fodder, even with this change, the fodder award will still not go to rangers.</p><p>It is a precedent that some classes are fodder in solo PvP, so it should be equally as acceptable for rangers to be the ones as it is for guardians to be.   Join a group, get your distance, and fling your arrows.</p><p>That said, I don't appreciate drastic changes to a character that someone spent years building (in order to satisfy a specific playstlye or game experience.)   With the amount of effort required to build a great PvP character, they should have been designed properly from day one.  Create the sandbox, and then leave it alone, let us play.</p><p>This is a critical lesson for the future game designer that will rule the marketplace and our pocketbooks.</p>

[The_Real_Ohno]

The PvP Locket if used while in PvP combat will still act like its going to work, u start to port up like it looks like u are going, then bam sent back down.  There is no way to zone anywhere anymore in PvP combat.  Should just take the lockets off the PvP merchant imo.

[PsycoSWG]

Yea um..I seriously hope you're going to change the 3-set bonus for fury pvp armor then...because if you take away my in-combat run buff from that you're basically wasting the 3-piece bonus from fury pvp gear.

[Roald]

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most in combat run speeds buffs will disable when in pvp combat soon. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote><p> As a coercer i love this.</p><p>As a pvper in general.......not so much.</p>

[Leorange]

<cite>Splintered wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><p>Its not 90% sprint, if your gonna cry at least get the facts straight.</p><p>L2P</p></blockquote><p> hey bud, 90% can actually be attained, but only in the rare circumstances. </p><p>40% sprint / 25% increase to sprint / fae or arasai 5% / 8.3% ranger m1 buff / 10.4% (estimated, I think its 1.3% per point) ranger agi aa line = 88.7%, so not 90%, but pretty close.</p></blockquote><p>A bit <i>closer</i> even <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> cause "Hunters Instinct" at Master II is adding 8.<b>7</b>%..  heh, that makes 89.1%! </p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small">/edit: typo</span> </p>

[Siphar]

<p>I'm sure the bard / fury spells will still work in-combat as their descriptions clearly state. Same with everything else that say "increases in-combat speed by blah-blah%".</p><p>Sprint on the other hand just says "increases run speed by ~40%" or whatever</p>

[Myxzptlk]

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aquaseed@Vox wrote: <blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff0000">It's kinda hard to be a ranged fighter if you can never get range on the person</span></b> and a great deal of your combat arts wont work it the person you're fighting is too close to you. Make bow attacks the same range as melee attacks and i think that a ranger with an increased in combat run speed would be less necessary. </blockquote> Show me 1 Ranger that waits until your both close enough to Kiss before attacking. Give me a break.</blockquote>That was my point, Dert de Der! If we cant do it at ranged, then we are a lot less effective. The moment we attack a meleer, they get in melee range and attack back, which is often too close for us to do a lot of our ranged attacks. If we can't get and keep ranged we are a ton  less effective.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote>Most in combat run speeds buffs will disable when in pvp combat soon. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote> Then please, fix the bugs that put people into combat without committing a hostile action towards another player - for example,  stop putting healers in combat when they heal PVE and are attacked by a PVP'er.  This bug crept into the PVP ruleset a long time ago, and while annoying, was able to be worked around in various ways.  The mechanics which govern being placed into PVP combat are broken in many obvious ways that are becoming increasingly exploitable as more abilities are disabled when put into combat.  Frankly, the only thing that should place someone into PVP combat should be attacking another player.  Anything on top of this puts you into the situation where exploiters run rampant ganking people at will.

[convict]

Aquaseed@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aquaseed@Vox wrote: <blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff0000">It's kinda hard to be a ranged fighter if you can never get range on the person</span></b> and a great deal of your combat arts wont work it the person you're fighting is too close to you. Make bow attacks the same range as melee attacks and i think that a ranger with an increased in combat run speed would be less necessary. </blockquote> Show me 1 Ranger that waits until your both close enough to Kiss before attacking. Give me a break.</blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff3300">That was my point,</span></b> Dert de Der! If we cant do it at ranged, then we are a lot less effective. The moment we attack a meleer, they get in melee range and attack back, which is often too close for us to do a lot of our ranged attacks. If we can't get and keep ranged we are a ton  less effective. </blockquote><p>Uh, apparently we have to type slowly for others to understand...</p><p>Are you telling me all your fights START out in melee range?!?!? And you MUST sprint away for a second to get range to use your uber bow?  Whats the difference in that melee character needing to be in melee range in order to do damage? You have to sprint to get out of melee range for using a bow, why have melee been fine at this point and not needing to sprint into melee range???? This only effects rangers huh?</p><p>If that melee person cant get into melee range, thier tons less effective also, so where does this only effect rangers? </p>

[silentpsycho]

<cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aquaseed@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aquaseed@Vox wrote: <blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff0000">It's kinda hard to be a ranged fighter if you can never get range on the person</span></b> and a great deal of your combat arts wont work it the person you're fighting is too close to you. Make bow attacks the same range as melee attacks and i think that a ranger with an increased in combat run speed would be less necessary. </blockquote> Show me 1 Ranger that waits until your both close enough to Kiss before attacking. Give me a break.</blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff3300">That was my point,</span></b> Dert de Der! If we cant do it at ranged, then we are a lot less effective. The moment we attack a meleer, they get in melee range and attack back, which is often too close for us to do a lot of our ranged attacks. If we can't get and keep ranged we are a ton  less effective. </blockquote><p>Uh, apparently we have to type slowly for others to understand...</p><p>Are you telling me all your fights START out in melee range?!?!? And you MUST sprint away for a second to get range to use your uber bow?  Whats the difference in that melee character needing to be in melee range in order to do damage? You have to sprint to get out of melee range for using a bow, why have melee been fine at this point and not needing to sprint into melee range???? This only effects rangers huh?</p><p>If that melee person cant get into melee range, thier tons less effective also, so where does this only effect rangers?</p></blockquote>Obviously, the ranger's original target is all ready dead when they use sprint.  I mean, come on now, how are rangers supposed to solo groups now?  I mean, really...

[Rabbitoh]

<cite>silentpsycho wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aquaseed@Nagafen wrote: <blockquote><cite>convict wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aquaseed@Vox wrote: <blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff0000">It's kinda hard to be a ranged fighter if you can never get range on the person</span></b> and a great deal of your combat arts wont work it the person you're fighting is too close to you. Make bow attacks the same range as melee attacks and i think that a ranger with an increased in combat run speed would be less necessary. </blockquote> Show me 1 Ranger that waits until your both close enough to Kiss before attacking. Give me a break.</blockquote><b><span style="color: #ff3300">That was my point,</span></b> Dert de Der! If we cant do it at ranged, then we are a lot less effective. The moment we attack a meleer, they get in melee range and attack back, which is often too close for us to do a lot of our ranged attacks. If we can't get and keep ranged we are a ton  less effective. </blockquote><p>Uh, apparently we have to type slowly for others to understand...</p><p>Are you telling me all your fights START out in melee range?!?!? And you MUST sprint away for a second to get range to use your uber bow?  Whats the difference in that melee character needing to be in melee range in order to do damage? You have to sprint to get out of melee range for using a bow, why have melee been fine at this point and not needing to sprint into melee range???? This only effects rangers huh?</p><p>If that melee person cant get into melee range, thier tons less effective also, so where does this only effect rangers?</p></blockquote>Obviously, the ranger's original target is all ready dead when they use sprint.  I mean, come on now, how are rangers supposed to solo groups now?  I mean, really... </blockquote><p>I love posts of noob whinging like this. It is players such as Convict that have made the devs consider crap like the intended changes for gu 36. </p><p>Closing range on a ranger is easy, cure the snare and sprint to them. Now tell me how a ranger after gu 36 is going to keep range if the gap is closed, every one except bards have 0 in combat speed and 40% sprint? </p><p>You will see the death of a fun class to play.</p><p>Thanks to all of the players out their that can't/won't learn to play their class. Keep whinging and we'll end up having the same characters.</p><p>Molok. Ranger of Vigilante. </p>

[Pumancat]

<p> Molok wrote "Closing range on a ranger is easy, cure the snare and sprint to them."</p><p>ok, cast cure or use potion= You have to stand still for that while the ranger is getting more distance, or shooting you with interrupt or stun attacks.</p><p>Sprint to them = Using alot of power while sprinting to catch someone else sprinting, and keeping the distance, while shooting you at the same time. Or shooting you while you're sprinting to them, with their fast attacks and kill you before you reach them.</p><p>Thus it seems that rangers will still be able to kite pretty effectively.</p><p>And added note for the heck of it, you will still be the banes of mages due to them saying NOTHING about changing clothie mit vs CAs.</p><p>Nyarlath - 70 wizard</p><p>Venekor server</p>

[Mildavyn]

<p>(1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 critically hits YOU for 1648 crushing damage. (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01's Quick Shot hits YOU for 223 crushing damage. (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 hits YOU for 1200 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] You begin to play an incapacitation song. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 147 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's gracelessness afflicts you. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 334 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 648 crushing damage. (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] You have entered into combat by casting Reverie on Ranger_01. (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] Ranger_01 was interrupted! (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] An incapacitation song affects Ranger_01</p><p>That is a log of a fight with a ranger from a couple of days ago. In 2 seconds Ranger_01 pumped out 4200 damage, and was part way through using another CA. Ranger's have to sprint to get range? Get out of town! A ranger who has range will kill me in less than 4 seconds.</p><p>FYI, I'm a fully-fabled Troubador, due to my buffs and AAs i have defense and parry values that are better than most tanks (self-buffed). With the exception of my 600 INT I'm completely set-up for survival, I have close to 8k hp self-buffed. Ranger_01 would kill me in less than 4 seconds, yet you have to run away to get range? I must have found the only competant ranger on the server.</p><p>Don't give me that BS about rangers being 'picked on' because of the whiners. You're being 'balanced' because you're overpowered!</p>

[Rabbitoh]

Paikis@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><p>(1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 critically hits YOU for 1648 crushing damage. (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01's Quick Shot hits YOU for 223 crushing damage. (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 hits YOU for 1200 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] You begin to play an incapacitation song. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 147 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's gracelessness afflicts you. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 334 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 648 crushing damage. (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] You have entered into combat by casting Reverie on Ranger_01. (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] Ranger_01 was interrupted! (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] An incapacitation song affects Ranger_01</p><p>That is a log of a fight with a ranger from a couple of days ago. In 2 seconds Ranger_01 pumped out 4200 damage, and was part way through using another CA. Ranger's have to sprint to get range? Get out of town! A ranger who has range will kill me in less than 4 seconds.</p><p>FYI, I'm a fully-fabled Troubador, due to my buffs and AAs i have defense and parry values that are better than most tanks (self-buffed). With the exception of my 600 INT I'm completely set-up for survival, I have close to 8k hp self-buffed. Ranger_01 would kill me in less than 4 seconds, yet you have to run away to get range? I must have found the only competant ranger on the server.</p><p>Don't give me that BS about rangers being 'picked on' because of the whiners. You're being 'balanced' because you're overpowered!</p></blockquote><p>Rofl i love this post. The ranger used 1 Ca on you. Paikis hide behind a tree LOL.</p><p>I don't think anything would save you Paikis from death from a ranger. The better players who know their class will easily kill rangers when GU 36 goes live, (hell rangers are easy meat already for players who know their class,but they aren't whinging on the forums) for the noobs who refuse to learn from mistakes nothing will help you.</p><p>Where is your sprint Pakis? you didn't even try to close the gap, you tried to cast a spell instead of closing the gap 1st and took it like a XXXX. Try closing the gap then casting, you maybe surprised.</p><p>BTW Paikis we (rangers) are T1 dps, we are meant to kill quick, that is what we do. People still don't get it, different classes have different jobs in pvp. Trobs in your case are designed to debuff/buff and make killing things easier, not solo pvp and kill things.</p><p>When all classes are the same and the game is boring as hell, I'll guess all the noobs out their in forum land who whined because they couldn't play their class/refused to learn their class will be happy. </p>

[Rabbitoh]

<cite>Pumancat wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> Molok wrote "Closing range on a ranger is easy, cure the snare and sprint to them."</p><p>ok, cast cure or use potion= You have to stand still for that while the ranger is getting more distance, or shooting you with interrupt or stun attacks.</p><p>Sprint to them = Using alot of power while sprinting to catch someone else sprinting, and keeping the distance, while shooting you at the same time. Or shooting you while you're sprinting to them, with their fast attacks and kill you before you reach them.</p><p>Thus it seems that rangers will still be able to kite pretty effectively.</p><p>And added note for the heck of it, you will still be the banes of mages due to them saying NOTHING about changing clothie mit vs CAs.</p><p>Nyarlath - 70 wizard</p><p>Venekor server</p></blockquote><p>last night i fought a clothie in BS who knew his class well. I was stifled then slowed, he walked up to me with his sheild up and nuked the crap out of me. Once the stilfe wore off i was slowed for a long time and he was right next to me. I had to evac from him. For all you whinging wizzies out their you can kill rangers if you can play your class.</p><p>The only players I see complaining about other classes on the forums are the players who can't play their own class and want easy fixed to their own ineffeciency.</p><p>I can't kill furies as most rangers can't, but do i complain. PT hits me for over 4k each time, but do i complain? No, it is part of another players class. </p><p>All of the whinging noobs out their will be happy when we all play the same character, just with a different name. </p>

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Rabbitoh wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>Rofl i love this post. The ranger used 1 Ca on you. Paikis hide behind a tree LOL.</p><p>I don't think anything would save you Paikis from death from a ranger. The better players who know their class will easily kill rangers when GU 36 goes live, (hell rangers are easy meat already for players who know their class,but they aren't whinging on the forums) for the noobs who refuse to learn from mistakes nothing will help you.</p><p>Where is your sprint Pakis? you didn't even try to close the gap, you tried to cast a spell instead of closing the gap 1st and took it like a XXXX. Try closing the gap then casting, you maybe surprised.</p><p>BTW Paikis we (rangers) are T1 dps, we are meant to kill quick, that is what we do. People still don't get it, different classes have different jobs in pvp. Trobs in your case are designed to debuff/buff and make killing things easier, not solo pvp and kill things.</p><p>When all classes are the same and the game is boring as hell, I'll guess all the noobs out their in forum land who whined because they couldn't play their class/refused to learn their class will be happy. </p></blockquote><p>Since when can you sprint up a cliff? Just FYI, here's the situation:</p><p>I've just landed on temple island. I see Ranger_01 on track. I know Ranger_01 is a ranger, because I've met them before. I see that Ranger_01 is doing the usual trick of sitting above on the cliff, so i run to the structure that the droags are all mining around. I hade behind one of the pillars. Ranger_01 jumps down and runs sorta towards the cloud platform, so still  has plenty of range when he clears the building and starts shooting at me.</p><p>Now here you say: sprint at him! he can't do as much damage up close! right? Well actually thats not right. See I could have sprinted over, probably got to eat most of that damage anyway before i got there, only to receive a point-blank shot to the face and then  a few more CAs while I'm stunned. See that way I'm just dead. I don't like being just dead, so I mezzes Ranger_01. Mezzed Ranger's don't do ANYTHING and i could have closed the range freely, or since I'm almost dead I charmed and the evacced.</p><p>I'll tell you what, since I'm one of the better troubs, if not the best troub on Venekor (debatable, but thats not why we're here) how about you stop trying to tell me how to play my class eh? I've been soloing PvP since i hit 70 and it is not only doable, but against people who don't know what I can do (most ppl cos Troubs aren't easy-mode so no one plays them) I can pretty much kill anything...</p><p>But not a ranger than pumps out over 4k in damage, from range, in less than 2 seconds.</p><p>So what if the duration on your roots and snares gets HALVED? You don't need em! With that kind of damage the only time you will need em is fighting on cloud platforms... and we all know that ranger's don't do that, they sit on the cliffs ABOVE the cloud platforms, and shoot at people below. </p>

[Rabbitoh]

Paikis@Venekor wrote: <blockquote><cite>Rabbitoh wrote:</cite><blockquote> <p>Rofl i love this post. The ranger used 1 Ca on you. Paikis hide behind a tree LOL.</p><p>I don't think anything would save you Paikis from death from a ranger. The better players who know their class will easily kill rangers when GU 36 goes live, (hell rangers are easy meat already for players who know their class,but they aren't whinging on the forums) for the noobs who refuse to learn from mistakes nothing will help you.</p><p>Where is your sprint Pakis? you didn't even try to close the gap, you tried to cast a spell instead of closing the gap 1st and took it like a XXXX. Try closing the gap then casting, you maybe surprised.</p><p>BTW Paikis we (rangers) are T1 dps, we are meant to kill quick, that is what we do. People still don't get it, different classes have different jobs in pvp. Trobs in your case are designed to debuff/buff and make killing things easier, not solo pvp and kill things.</p><p>When all classes are the same and the game is boring as hell, I'll guess all the noobs out their in forum land who whined because they couldn't play their class/refused to learn their class will be happy. </p></blockquote><p>Since when can you sprint up a cliff? Just FYI, here's the situation:</p><p>I've just landed on temple island. I see Ranger_01 on track. I know Ranger_01 is a ranger, because I've met them before. I see that Ranger_01 is doing the usual trick of sitting above on the cliff, so i run to the structure that the droags are all mining around. I hade behind one of the pillars. Ranger_01 jumps down and runs sorta towards the cloud platform, so still  has plenty of range when he clears the building and starts shooting at me.</p><p>Now here you say: sprint at him! he can't do as much damage up close! right? Well actually thats not right. See I could have sprinted over, probably got to eat most of that damage anyway before i got there, only to receive a point-blank shot to the face and then  a few more CAs while I'm stunned. See that way I'm just dead. I don't like being just dead, so I mezzes Ranger_01. Mezzed Ranger's don't do ANYTHING and i could have closed the range freely, or since I'm almost dead I charmed and the evacced.</p><p>I'll tell you what, since I'm one of the better troubs, if not the best troub on Venekor (debatable, but thats not why we're here) how about you stop trying to tell me how to play my class eh? I've been soloing PvP since i hit 70 and it is not only doable, but against people who don't know what I can do (most ppl cos Troubs aren't easy-mode so no one plays them) I can pretty much kill anything...</p><p>But not a ranger than pumps out over 4k in damage, from range, in less than 2 seconds.</p><p>So what if the duration on your roots and snares gets HALVED? You don't need em! With that kind of damage the only time you will need em is fighting on cloud platforms... and we all know that ranger's don't do that, they sit on the cliffs ABOVE the cloud platforms, and shoot at people below. </p></blockquote><p>You reckon you can "pretty much kill everything", except rangers. </p><p>I have fought you before, and you rate average i would hate to say (Ask Rainie how to kill rangers as a Trob BTW).</p><p>I suppose you and peoples like you will be happy when all classes are nerfed enough to come down to your poorer play style. </p><p>Oh, on stonesetters there are plenty of places to hide from ranged attacks (even a tree). </p>

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Rabbitoh wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You reckon you can "pretty much kill everything", except rangers. </p><p>I have fought you before, and you rate average i would hate to say (Ask Rainie how to kill rangers as a Trob BTW).</p><p>I suppose you and peoples like you will be happy when all classes are nerfed enough to come down to your poorer play style. </p><p>Oh, on stonesetters there are plenty of places to hide from ranged attacks (even a tree). </p></blockquote><p> I recon I can pretty much kill anything yes. Hell I have killed rangers as well, but the ones with raid gear are an absolute [Removed for Content] to kill if I dont get the drop, even then I lose a fair bit. </p><p>Ofcourse you killed me (assuming this is Riot?) when you're sitting on your cliff there's nothing I can do except run. When you're duoing with Keili, there's nothing I can do except run... 2v1 with 2 ranger's is hardly a test of skill. Hell there isn't a single person in the game who can kill 2 rangers in raid gear. It's just not going to happen.</p><p>As for hiding... I can't kill a ranger through that wall anymore than he can kill me (barring miracle shot)</p>

[Cyst]

<p>Paikas</p><p>You just made yourself a target for me a 58 Ranger if you die so easily.</p><p>How can ANY scout lose initiative to a Ranger EVER when you can purchase Totem of the Bat, and Totem of the Butterfly totems by the bag fulls for a few gold?</p><p>Once you picked said Ranger on track, it should have been a cat and mouse, stalkers delight fight until you or him caught the initiative. If you were out in the open YOU DESERVED TO DIE! And if you ran directly to his position out in the open YOU DESERVED TO DIE! Even still you should have sprinted towards him preparing to use your Cure Arcane potions (I bet you don't carry those) to cure his snare and once in melee you should have CHARMED him allowing yourself to heal any health you lost since Charm takes you out of combat, and once charm broke you already gained the inititave on the Ranger. From that point if you couldn't win the fight or force the Ranger to flee, choose a new character or make yourself a Ranger so you can whine about losing fights to Brigands, Assassins, Furies, Wardens, melee spec'd Inquisitors, et cetera, et cetera.</p><p>Hell, I played a Troub to level 23 and know how to kill a Ranger better than you.</p>

[Mildavyn]

<cite>Demron wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Paikas</p><p>You just made yourself a target for me a 58 Ranger if you die so easily.</p><p>How can ANY scout lose initiative to a Ranger EVER when you can purchase Totem of the Bat, and Totem of the Butterfly totems by the bag fulls for a few gold?</p><p>Once you picked said Ranger on track, it should have been a cat and mouse, stalkers delight fight until you or him caught the initiative. If you were out in the open YOU DESERVED TO DIE! And if you ran directly to his position out in the open YOU DESERVED TO DIE! Even still you should have sprinted towards him preparing to use your Cure Arcane potions (I bet you don't carry those) to cure his snare and once in melee you should have CHARMED him allowing yourself to heal any health you lost since Charm takes you out of combat, and once charm broke you already gained the inititave on the Ranger. From that point if you couldn't win the fight or force the Ranger to flee, choose a new character or make yourself a Ranger so you can whine about losing fights to Brigands, Assassins, Furies, Wardens, melee spec'd Inquisitors, et cetera, et cetera.</p><p>Hell, I played a Troub to level 23 and know how to kill a Ranger better than you.</p></blockquote><p>Vision totem of the bat? Why would i want sonic vision? Spirit totem of the bat? why would i want out of combat power regen?</p><p>I do use snake totems for the illusion and butterfly and owl totems for see-stealth and invis... do they count? Also have all 4 cure potions, several different types of ward potions and status items to make myself immune to stuns etc for a minute. But hey, what do I know right?</p><p>I wasn't out in the open, read the last post again, i was HIDING behind a building. I didnt run anywhere, when he cleared the building i was casting my mez straight away. Why can't you people get it into your heads, sprinting up to a ranger is the WORST thing i can do. Cos I'm sure that the ranger, once i get into melee range is just going to stand there and let me cast spells at him. He's not going to point-blank shot me and keep unloading, no... that would imply actual intelligence. /sarcasm</p><p>Time to mez ranger: 1.87 seconds. Can then walk up to the ranger while casting debuffs, breaking mez at point blank range where i have all my timers going off just as i break mez with a nuke, followed by a stiffle.</p><p>Time to sprint to ranger, cure root, THEN cast charm: 2.37 seconds to cast charm + 3-4 seconds to get to the ranger... who I'm sure will be sprinting bakwards shooting at me the whole time, so more like 5-6 seconds. Meanwhile I'm DEAD because rangers do insane burst damage.</p><p>One of those options has a chance of succeeding. The other one will end up with me being DEAD almost every time.</p><p>Just an FYI, at level 23 you know absolutely nothing about playing a level 70 troubador AT ALL, let alone in solo PvP combat. A level 70 Troub has alot more options than a level 23 one. Also people actually have resists in T7. Bards in t2 and t3 are ALOT more powerful than any rangers are. Go play in your sand-box kiddie. Come back when you've got some levels and have an opinion worth more than a pinch of goat [Removed for Content].</p>

[Cyst]

<p>Funny Paikas. Sand box you say? I probably win more fights at 58 against 70s than you do. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Like I've said and will keep saying I've seen some very good players and very bad players in each class. I've attacked a Warlock with a group, and watched him whipe the entire group. I know of two Warlocks on the server you had better play your cards right, or they'll whipe you. It's been a very long time since I've fought a good fight with an Assassin who was my level, but Brigands whipe the floor with me. Yet I've seen some poorly played Brigands. I've shot every single bow CA into a Wizard and not cause more than 300 damage. I've shot a Wizard with Sniper Shot only to do no damage and have him two shot me in return.</p><p>So I've seen some very well played characters and if they win, trust me, I attack them often to find out why they won, and learn from it.</p><p>But like all PvP there is a pecking order and once you learn it, you're golden especially as a scout. I bet Paikas you have just as easy a time killing casters as I do, but I doubt you'd sit here and let them change your class much. There is a video floating around of a Bard killing reds constantly with his 6% run speed, and it is quite frankly revealing to the power of your class.</p><p>But look for me, I'll be more than happy to kill you at 58 with my overpowered Ranger. Better yet, level one, and learn how hard it can be to get at range to use your bow.</p>

[Cyst]

<p>Paikas</p><p>Post the entire combat logs than. Because what you posted shows you didn't do half of what you claim you did.</p><p>Man you'd be pretty stressed out and whiney if you had to fight Brigands and Assassins, not to mention getting hit constantly with Harm Touch. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Mildavyn]

<p>(118139766<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Sun Jun 10 00:01:08 2007] You begin tracking... (118139766<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Sun Jun 10 00:01:08 2007] Your current destination lies somewhere to the northwest and above you. (1181397679)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:19 2007] You stop tracking. (1181397679)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:19 2007] You look around for tracks... (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 critically hits YOU for 1648 crushing damage. (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01's Quick Shot hits YOU for 223 crushing damage. (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 hits YOU for 1200 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] You begin to play an incapacitation song. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 147 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's gracelessness afflicts you. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 334 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 648 crushing damage. (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] You have entered into combat by casting Reverie on Ranger_01 (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] Ranger_01 was interrupted! (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] An incapacitation song affects Ranger_01 (1181397699)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:39 2007] YOU try to confound Ranger_01 with Guviena's Apathetic Chant, but Ranger_01 resists. (1181397703)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:43 2007] You say to the group,"CHARMING --< Ranger_01 >--" (1181397705)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:45 2007] YOU try to confound Ranger_01 with Bria's Infatuating Sonnet, but Ranger_01 resists. (1181397706)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:46 2007] Paikis waves goodbye to Ranger_01 (1181397707)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:47 2007] You say to the group,"CHARMING --< Ranger_01 >--" (1181397711)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:51 2007] YOU try to confound Ranger_01 with Bria's Infatuating Sonnet, but Ranger_01 resists. (1181397713)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:53 2007] You say to the group,"CHARMING --< Ranger_01 >--" (1181397716)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:56 2007] Ranger_01 is entranced by the sound of the sonnet. (1181397726)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:06 2007] Ranger_01 is no longer entranced by the sound of the sonnet. (1181397726)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:06 2007] You are now immune from attacks. (1181397726)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:06 2007] Tenebrous Tangle: PvP Range is unlimited. (1181397726)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:06 2007] You stop tracking. (1181397727)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:07 2007] You look around for tracks... </p><p>There ya go mate. the entire log, from start to evac. After that i zoned to the CLs to stop being locked in TT. So tell me, what would your uber lvl 23 troubador have done hmm?</p><p>EDIT: removed names to protect the overpowered.</p>

[Cyst]

<p>Wow... You did a lot wrong.</p><p>First and foremost why are you casting any mental bases spell before your snare? You do understand your snare REDUCES mental resists right? And it snares the Ranger to boot. If you're worried about it resisting why not open up with your STUN. In that situation I would have 1) Stun, 2) Snare, 3) Charmed, 4) Healed to full, 5) Begin fighting again after breaking charm, 6) applying mez if I need it later in fight.</p><p>But the most detrimental move you messed up on, is you gave the Ranger the initiative. How in the world does a Ranger get off his stealth attack or sniper shot if you know he is there? Do you know how long it takes to cast those? I could run from 40 meters to 0 meters again back to 40 meters sprinting with any character in the game before it fired off.</p><p>Even after all of that. YOU GOT AWAY!</p>

[Mildavyn]

<p>Ok, since you don't seem to get it, I'll go through it for you ONE LINE AT A TIME.</p><p>(118139766<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Sun Jun 10 00:01:08 2007] You begin tracking... <b>(Here is me landing at the cloud platform and looking around)</b> (118139766<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />[Sun Jun 10 00:01:08 2007] Your current destination lies somewhere to the northwest and above you. <b>(here I'm looking at my map to see the little X above on the cliffs, so now i know where Ranger_01 is)</b> (1181397679)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:19 2007] You stop tracking. (1181397679)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:19 2007] You look around for tracks... <b>(Here I'm opening my track window again. I have Ranger_01 targetted and don't need the little X anymore, so i open track to see anyone else coming in. I'm hiding behind the building and Ranger_01 drops down to the floor and heads towards the cloud pad)</b> (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 critically hits YOU for 1648 crushing damage. <b>(this is Ranger_01's AUTO_ATTACK, not stealth attack, auto-attack)</b> (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01's Quick Shot hits YOU for 223 crushing damage. <b>(this is I beleive one of the procs you get? AA?)</b> (1181397692)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:32 2007] Ranger_01 hits YOU for 1200 crushing damage. <b>(double-attack on auto-attack)</b> (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] You begin to play an incapacitation song. <b>(begin casting mez, as soon as Ranger_01 clears the building and gets line of sight this is casting.)</b> (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 147 crushing damage. <b>(CA #1 for the fight, does not require stealth)</b> (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's gracelessness afflicts you. <b>(Not sure what this is, anyone?)</b> (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 334 crushing damage. (1181397693)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:33 2007] Ranger_01's Triple Volley critically hits YOU for 648 crushing damage. (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] You have entered into combat by casting Reverie on Ranger_01 <b>(Here's is where my Mez landed, exactly 1.87 seconds after I started casting it)</b> (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] Ranger_01 was interrupted! <b>(can't use CAs while mezzed! (although evac seems to work if you start casting BEFORE the mez lands))</b> (1181397694)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:34 2007] An incapacitation song affects Ranger_01 <b>(yup, thats mez landing)</b> (1181397699)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:39 2007] YOU try to confound Ranger_01 with Guviena's Apathetic Chant, but Ranger_01 resists. <b>(Snare/mental debuff - RESISTED)</b> (1181397703)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:43 2007] You say to the group,"CHARMING --< Ranger_01 >--" <b>(It's macroed, ignore the spam)</b> (1181397705)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:45 2007] YOU try to confound Ranger_01 with Bria's Infatuating Sonnet, but Ranger_01 resists. <b>(Charm- RESISTED, at this point I've decided that since I'm in the red and haven't managed to do anything yet that I'm probably not going to win this and I should [Removed for Content])</b> (1181397706)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:46 2007] Paikis waves goodbye to Ranger_01 <b>(this is an emote /bye)</b> (1181397707)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:47 2007] You say to the group,"CHARMING --< Ranger_01 >--" <b>(spam)</b> (1181397711)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:51 2007] YOU try to confound Ranger_01 with Bria's Infatuating Sonnet, but Ranger_01 resists<b>.(Charm - RESISTED)</b> (1181397713)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:53 2007] You say to the group,"CHARMING --< Ranger_01 >--"<b>(spam)</b> (1181397716)[Sun Jun 10 00:01:56 2007] Ranger_01 is entranced by the sound of the sonnet. <b>(Charm lands on the third attempt and I evac)</b> (1181397726)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:06 2007] Ranger_01 is no longer entranced by the sound of the sonnet. (1181397726)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:06 2007] You are now immune from attacks. (1181397726)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:06 2007] Tenebrous Tangle: PvP Range is unlimited. (1181397726)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:06 2007] You stop tracking. (1181397727)[Sun Jun 10 00:02:07 2007] You look around for tracks... </p><p>Now I'll go through your last post and tell you why you're wrong.</p><p>Demron wrote:</p><p>"</p><p>Wow... You did a lot wrong.</p><p>First and foremost why are you casting any mental bases spell before your snare? You do understand your snare REDUCES mental resists right? And it snares the Ranger to boot. If you're worried about it resisting why not open up with your STUN. In that situation I would have 1) Stun, 2) Snare, 3) Charmed, 4) Healed to full, 5) Begin fighting again after breaking charm, 6) applying mez if I need it later in fight.</p><p>But the most detrimental move you messed up on, is you gave the Ranger the initiative. How in the world does a Ranger get off his stealth attack or sniper shot if you know he is there? Do you know how long it takes to cast those? I could run from 40 meters to 0 meters again back to 40 meters sprinting with any character in the game before it fired off.</p><p>Even after all of that. YOU GOT AWAY!"</p><p>/quote</p><p>Yes, I realise my snare reduces mental resists, however you realise that my mez is 25 seconds of not taking any damage, where i can debuff all i want? You realise that I have the master Mez, master dove song and 5 AAs into the mez? You realise that it gets resisted less than 1 in 10? Why bother? I don't need Ranger_01 to be snared, because he's not going anywhere anyways. To open up with a stun I would have had to be next to the ranger... which i wasn't. Have you been to KoS? because either you can't read, or you just don't know the place I'm talking about. Ok, next point. Charm does not allow you to heal to full. At lvl 70 it lasts a massive 14 seconds, and has a chance to break every 4 seconds. On the rare occasions my master charm lands (see parse) it almost always breaks on the first check. So at best I get one tick of OOC health... 150ish hp. In exchange any debuff's I've put on Ranger_01 get removed. No thanks. Almost 3 seconds wasted to get back 150ish hp, when in less than 2 seconds Ranger_01 can take off 4200. Also, when the charm broke, Ranger_01's auto-attack would have refrshed and I'd get to eat another barrage.</p><p>Read the log, and this time actually READ it. No where does it mention Sniper Shot, no where does it mention ANY attacks that require stealth. Ranger_01 opened up with auto-attack, and damned near killed me with it. Yes, I do realise that Sniper shot takes 5 seconds to cast, and yes I do realise that IF a ranger is trying to get it off that I can sprint up to them, but wait... If I'm not in combat why would i sprint? Waste of power because i can run faster than sprint normally. Last tiem I checked though, you can't sprint up cliff walls. Was this a bard ability that I didn't get when I was level 23?</p><p>I'll say it once more: a T3 troub is vastly more powerful than a T7 troub when compared to the other classes. The two different toons are so different it's like you aren't even plying a Troubador (you aren't really, you dont have half your spells/buffs yet you don't get Eli's until 26, steal essence come in at 2<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) Hell, you just barely have Aria at that point. It's like getting a 2 year old to try and teach mike tyson to box. (although with the biting thing, maybe that IS what happened)</p><p>This thread is going nowhere fast. Let it die. You are wrong. Go home.</p>